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X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:11:00 -
[91]
Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 23:07:43
 Originally by: Masheine
Originally by: X3vious
Remove local, only when there are tools to counter pirates.
What tools would like in addition to guns, missiles, drones, shields, armor, ecm, cloaks, and corp mates?
Well, if they were sufficient, I wouldn't be saying that extra tools were needed.
:-\
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hUssmann
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:15:00 -
[92]
Originally by: X3vious
Well, if they were sufficient, I wouldn't be saying that extra tools were needed.
:-\
I love these forums.
______________________________________
Phoenix Lonestar > Server lag was non-existant pre Dragon.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:17:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Sever Aldaria
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
To the second point, he invaded "occupied" 0.0 space, and the resident alliance/corp did not see their infiltration due to the shutdown of their main recon tool. They avoided the consequences of the deployment by using a bug that they knew about to gain the advantage.
Exploit. to. the. letter.
Thats not a very convincing argument when all the facts aren't known about his situation. You accuse him of invading "occupied" 0.0 due to hidden local but he never said he put it up in enemy claimed space. He said he was panicking because he couldn't see pirates. In that context, how do you know his alliance didn't lay claim to the space that he put his pos up in? How do you know he's not NAP'd with the people occupying that territory and has "permission" to put up the pos? Territory is very hard to "control" so pirates or roaming gangs can come and go as they please. We go roaming through FLA/D2/IRON/other north guys' space all the time. I don't have all the facts of his situation either, but I can guess that he wasn't worried about the local people when putting up his pos, but about the roaming "pirates" which were even harder to detect with local gone. From that perspective, the pirates have the advantage with hidden local and not him, but I'm not about to accuse him of clever exploits having so little information about his situation.
P.S. down with 0.0 local
Call me crazy, but I don't get "panicked" about not seeing pirates, the general "oh sh**'s" start when I check security status and someone named "Gankzilla" with -10.0 status and a bio that reads like gang scrawl jumps into my system.
Maybe he is just a squirrelly guy, who knows.
Quote:
You're an idiot. It's our space. There was no infiltration, the resident alliance was our alliance (we're just joining).
And now you are an ass, for being so so wrong. And I am an ass for pointing out how wrong you are.
Don't assume.
Just stop while you're behind.
RR
So you deployed in "your" space when you knew that pirates couldn't find you. No matter how you hash it, you exploited a broken system to your own ends, and I hope CCP READS THIS THREAD. Of course this will probably not happen, but it is fun to shame you into acting out.
Ah, I was right wasn't I?  I don't put up POS's but I'd imagine that having a significant investment of isk sitting there vulnerable would make anyone want to know of their surroundings.
Oh and... how exactly can "pirates" not find him? If they couldn't find him then why would he be worried in the first place? Said "pirates" wouldn't know if many or no people are in a given system, but flying around scanning would soon find said "pirates" with an easy target of a pos being setup. He exploited nothing because he had no advantages. If anything, he was at a disadvantage. We killed several battleships and a command ships this morning. Should they be punished for exploits by trying to rat in systems knowing that "pirates cannot find them"? Thats a rediculous statement you must agree but thats really what is inferred from your words.
Originally by: Masheine
Originally by: X3vious
Remove local, only when there are tools to counter pirates.
What tools would like in addition to guns, missiles, drones, shields, armor, ecm, cloaks, and corp mates?
Spacial Shift Module I (cannot be used if a warp scrambler is equiped) which instantly teleports you 100km in a random direction even while warp scrambled.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Revolution Rising
Minmatar
Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:23:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Revolution Rising on 20/03/2007 23:21:45
Quote:
Oh and... how exactly can "pirates" not find him? If they couldn't find him then why would he be worried in the first place? Said "pirates" wouldn't know if many or no people are in a given system, but flying around scanning would soon find said "pirates" with an easy target of a pos being setup. He exploited nothing because he had no advantages. If anything, he was at a disadvantage. We killed several battleships and a command ships this morning. Should they be punished for exploits by trying to rat in systems knowing that "pirates cannot find them"? Thats a rediculous statement you must agree but thats really what is inferred from your words.
Dude, that guy is just dumb and doesn't get it. Don't waste your breath. And yeah it was a lot of fun, hit a gate with an AF on it who launched his drones before trying to scram me - i had 2 stabs anyhow - and i lost him 2 systems later because I jumped to a planet and made a safespot when I realised he was following. No trickery or "bug exploiting" was entered into by us.
Was a tonne of fun. I'm a carebear but thoroughly support this - IF there are modules for frigate class (cov-ops?) ships that allow those ships to be notified of gate activity.
Why? It means a battleship is at a slight disadvantage when it comes to intel - the lone hunter pirate ganker is going to have a hard time. It will put more frigates/cov-ops in 0.0 to do this kind of work instead of just gangs of BS's, carriers etc.. It evens out the gangs more - sure we need tacklers and then everyone takes the biggest ship they can find (if they didn't get a heavy tackler anyhow), this means you need tacklers and scanners.
RR
CEO Venture Research and Resources.
VRR Homepage |
X3vious
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:30:00 -
[95]
Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 23:27:36
Anyway, Local is back, and 'Bears all over can rejoice.
BTW - I hate these forums, full of whiners "'Nerf 'Nerf"
Originally by: hUssmann
Originally by: X3vious
Well, if they were sufficient, I wouldn't be saying that extra tools were needed.
:-\
I love these forums.
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Commander BlackJack
EON Order
Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:33:00 -
[96]
/signed
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Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:34:00 -
[97]
I'm a carebear myself, and I've been thinking about it a bit more: The largest problem I've seen mentioned so far is mining.
Even today you won't be doing much low or zero sec solo mining unless you're feeling like rolling the bloody dice (oh and I got days when I do feel like rolling the bloody dice).
You see the local count jump, you better make sure it's a friendly or you start hitting the frigging scanner, but that's just the same you'd do with a full local when an unknown enters. Even 3.5 sec people sometimes like to gank a miner.
High sec, with an active war dec - that's much the same. If local is sufficiently high, say 90 or 100, even the nice markers in the local list won't save you unless you're really watching out.
So what's left? Corp solo miners in high sec during active wars? I dunno, if you die for that you've probably deserved the grief your CEO is going to give you.
If anything, this would be making local more chatty. "Hi there. You a friendly?" That can't be an all bad thing.
Family Tahar, of Clan Hadar, of Caravan of Namtz'Aar K'in |
Vort X
EON Order
Te-Ka
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:43:00 -
[98]
Constellation chat instead of the local, sounds like more fun. I think the devs are planning something like this if im not mistaken. Go for it CCP.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:07:00 -
[99]
I have to say, i live in 0.0 since my early age and i didn not have such amazing experience as today being in 0.0 with 5 unknown pilots in same system.
Breadk the local again (and forever)
Pliiz 
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Elmicker
Unscoped
Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:16:00 -
[100]
It is a standing rule in just about every alliance going that carebearing (ratting/mining) is only allowed when no hostiles are in sight, i.e., when it is safe to do so. Removing local would make no area "safe", it'd be the ultimate AFK cloaker. No one could ever egt anything done, because it would never be safe to do so. 0.0 industry would die because no one will be getting out their shiny covetors without at least a 30 man gatecamp in a dead end (usually relatively highsec) system. This would make 0.0 more fun, for about 15 minutes, until we all run out of money due to being unable to rat or mine (well you could, if you dont mind losing a raven or covetor a day). We'd just end up back in empire, grinding lvl 4s, whinging about privateers and the lag.
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Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:17:00 -
[101]
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations?
...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
The only people left out there will be the PvPer's and their mining alts... fun.
The only way to conduct a mining op would be to form a blob in the belt since you have no warning as to enemy forces or their size your only defence is to hope to outnumber them.
Territory would become a joke unless you can camp the gates into and out of it 23/7.
Mineral, ship, mod, and ammo prices would soar beyond belief, piracy would be even less profitable than today due to a lack of soft targets and the expense of losses.
Gank squads in the dozens (and the hundreds) would harass alliance space using hit and run tactics to wipe out everything in their path while defensive fleets can only turn up five minutes too late unless they post scouts on every gate in their space 23/7.
POS would fall without warning as a cyno-ship manages to get by unopposed and unknown until the cyno opens and the capital fleet arrives.
I can't think of a single group of players who wouldn't suffer from this (except perhaps the gank squads). Even the pure PvPer would spend most of his time waiting... securing gates, securing what is left of the mining ops, trying to hunt down invaders, trying to find a system with prey, etc.
More wait, less pew pew.
It's bad mmmKay?
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Arkani Gera
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:17:00 -
[102]
/signed
would actually make the game a whole lot more interesting to play, everyone will have to get better organized, win-win situation...
The corp is mother, the corp is father.
The little badger that could |
Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:29:00 -
[103]
Imust agree that removing local copletly is to hardcore, but if remains information how many pilots are in system but you dont know who is it until the write something on local (breaks radio silence) or you scan them, it would be nice compromise.
Syestems would be defendable but huters will have bigger chance to arrpouch their pray.
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:34:00 -
[104]
as a new player to the wardec'ing thing, and a future recon pilot, I am going to need to sign this as well. Kind of...
Much like the Eve-radio channel, show how many people are in system, however, only display the people that are talking.
I felt like my poor kestrel, with no "pew-pew" skills, was actually useful today, as I was set up 0.4 AU from the gate, behind an enemy gate camp, constantly scanning them, and providing that intel to our alliance.
If there was no local, perhaps, instead of getting an order to back off and dock, our blob would have made this into a nice opportunity to kill a gate camp 
PS: This is how I imagined flying a recon ship would be like, setting up behind enemy lines, and providing intel. People feel too safe when there is a local, and they let down thier guard when they do not see enemies in local.
PSS: I am also an ex-miner, and this would bug me a bit, however, it would make me do the non-AFK mining thing, which is how it should be.
My opinion is my own, not of my corp or my alliance. If you have problems, we can have a "who can do L4 missions faster" duel >:) |
Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:39:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations?
...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I really like Eve, but I genuinely believe that unless CCP pays *verry* close attention to whats griping the 0.0 crew, this game is going to be over within the year. Theres perhaps 2-3 months left of war in deep space , and thats either going to be one alliance controls all of space, game over, lets play WOW, or a perpetually hostile grind war that'll eventually devolve into more wars. CCP needs to *carefully* analyse how it wants this to pan out, because if its *impossible* for one side of this war to win at all, this game is over.
There will be plenty of room for carebears once that happens, but no customers for them to profit off. 
So it'll be like .... empire and the 20 or 30 macrominers who never really did notice whats going on. yay.
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Evenfall Phoenix
The Arrow Project
The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:57:00 -
[106]
Originally by: X3vious
Edited by: X3vious on 20/03/2007 20:58:07
Bring back local.
As the pirates argue - risk vs reward:
There is little risk when local is removed.
He's right. With no local pirates suffer vary little in terms of risk, while carebears or travelers risk goes through the roof. I like local as is.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.21 00:59:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations?
...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I really like Eve, but I genuinely believe that unless CCP pays *verry* close attention to whats griping the 0.0 crew, this game is going to be over within the year. Theres perhaps 2-3 months left of war in deep space , and thats either going to be one alliance controls all of space, game over, lets play WOW, or a perpetually hostile grind war that'll eventually devolve into more wars. CCP needs to *carefully* analyse how it wants this to pan out, because if its *impossible* for one side of this war to win at all, this game is over.
There will be plenty of room for carebears once that happens, but no customers for them to profit off.
So it'll be like .... empire and the 20 or 30 macrominers who never really did notice whats going on. yay.
Theres a fresh bag of pampers next to the exit, help yourself on your way out if you can't handle things as they were.
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:01:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations?
...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I really like Eve, but I genuinely believe that unless CCP pays *verry* close attention to whats griping the 0.0 crew, this game is going to be over within the year. Theres perhaps 2-3 months left of war in deep space , and thats either going to be one alliance controls all of space, game over, lets play WOW, or a perpetually hostile grind war that'll eventually devolve into more wars. CCP needs to *carefully* analyse how it wants this to pan out, because if its *impossible* for one side of this war to win at all, this game is over.
There will be plenty of room for carebears once that happens, but no customers for them to profit off.
So it'll be like .... empire and the 20 or 30 macrominers who never really did notice whats going on. yay.
Theres a fresh bag of pampers next to the exit, help yourself on your way out if you can't handle things as they were.
Dont you have a reroll scheduled this week?
/signed, but with proper tools given.
_________________________
~Thor Xian, Star Commander |
Kodiak31415
An Eye For An Eye
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:07:00 -
[109]
Remove local chat and change it to local count, numbers only, no identities. Add a region or constelation wide chat that works as local does now.
my $.02
_______________________________
Idea stolen from DS:
Pleese exucse any seplling erroos in this psot |
Daelin Blackleaf
No Joy Corp
Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:21:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations?
...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I'm kinda missing where this has anything to do with local.
Yes PvP has a LOT of problems, this may come as a shock to you but I've fought my share of wars, I'm aware of the issues. Go make yourself a thread, or better yet contribute to the many already around and state your grievances where they may be considered and not simply ignored out of hand due to having nothing to do with the current topic.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:21:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Thor Xian
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf
As much as it may seem fun and all....
...can you say mass cancellations?
...hows about carebear exodus to empire?
Eh... Why not Daelin. The damn Titans probably going to lead to most of the PVPers quitting in bored frustration that PVP has been made worthless when the only way to fight a titan is 1k+ spacecraft rammed slowly into system to try and have enough left over after the regular DD blasts to have something vaguelly resembling a fight.
I really like Eve, but I genuinely believe that unless CCP pays *verry* close attention to whats griping the 0.0 crew, this game is going to be over within the year. Theres perhaps 2-3 months left of war in deep space , and thats either going to be one alliance controls all of space, game over, lets play WOW, or a perpetually hostile grind war that'll eventually devolve into more wars. CCP needs to *carefully* analyse how it wants this to pan out, because if its *impossible* for one side of this war to win at all, this game is over.
There will be plenty of room for carebears once that happens, but no customers for them to profit off.
So it'll be like .... empire and the 20 or 30 macrominers who never really did notice whats going on. yay.
Theres a fresh bag of pampers next to the exit, help yourself on your way out if you can't handle things as they were.
Dont you have a reroll scheduled this week?
/signed, but with proper tools given.
Touche...
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:28:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Velsharoon
That was fun, no kills but it felt like how it should be, would force people in 0.0 to actually play the game on hard mode, use their brains and even not blob \o/
/signed
==
Above comments are my personal views
Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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nickky01
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:37:00 -
[113]
/signed
can you imagine the fleet fights not know if there was a titan in system cloaked! would be intense
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Hesed
Hamartia.
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:37:00 -
[114]
Bring back teh nekkid feeling!
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Alekseyev Karrde
The Royal Guard
Forces of Freedom
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Posted - 2007.03.21 01:45:00 -
[115]
this would bring a more cat and mouse type feel to small conflicts whilst not affecting large conflicts very much. It would add an element of surprise to game play which would reinforce the need for reconosence, intelligence gathering, and planning and the ships/characters associated with those activities.
I also think it would discourage metagaming (log on traps partic) by largely taking away some the attractiveness of such practises, making the hassle(at least for some if not most) not worth the tactical gain.
I would provide that the chat window still be open for talk and the number of pilots present(as in the case with alliance chat), however no names or avatars be disclosed to public consumption unless those players speak in local.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.21 03:22:00 -
[116]
At the very least, I think a nice compromise would be to make local as it was earlier just after hidden local went away but before it was completely fixed.
(For those who didn't know)
Once local came back up, it did not auto refresh when someone came in local or left local. To accurately see who was in local, you would just have to click the (iii) 3 person icon refresh button in the upper right corner of the window and it would refresh showing everyone in local. Example: Gang jumps through a gate. On the other side, I only see 3 people in local which were the three gang mates that jumped in fractions of a second before me. The rest of the gang does not show till I click the refresh button.
This sort of compromise still means that people can get the jump on others while others can refresh their local every so often to see who's in local.
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
AngryCanuk
TribalWar Inc
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.03.21 03:48:00 -
[117]
/NOT signed
How can people think this is a good idea? It would cause no intel on ANYTHING in eve. to get an idea of whos in system you'd have to probe them and go through everyones information. thats a bad idea
And what about fleet ops or territory? are you ppl so near sighted that you cant see the large problems with no local?
Honor does not have to be defended. - Robert J. Sawyer
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Liliane Woodhead
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Posted - 2007.03.21 04:25:00 -
[118]
It's up to you. Minimize your local window and don't cry.
-------
Nerf the Nerfbat
-------
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.03.21 04:47:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Liliane Woodhead
It's up to you. Minimize your local window and don't cry.
-------
Nerf the Nerfbat
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No you see it doesn't work then because EVERYONE would know they're in system and safespot or dock and oh wait! Removing local will largely benefit the solo-ganker in low sec and no one else? Well I'll be damned!
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Quen Azle
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.03.21 05:09:00 -
[120]
/signed
Nerf local.
If not, nerf local in 0.0
If even that is not doable, nerf local to show only #'s of people in local and only display identity when a guy talks in local, like delayed mode chat channels.
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