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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34269
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Posted - 2016.10.12 08:29:55 -
[151] - Quote
hhhhhhhah you can't even give it ORE colors because that's taken by the Primae, which was handed out for free at one point as a subscription bonus
How excited do you really expect people to be over a Noctis SKIN. You couldn't help reusing a years-old hull for a new ship class? Come onnnn
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Morgan Agrivar
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
583
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Posted - 2016.10.12 09:18:56 -
[152] - Quote
When do I get to shoot at one? November 8th?
Gotta put that on a calendar...
This would cure me of the fear...
CCP Explorer liked you forum post. Now my life is complete...
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1824
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Posted - 2016.10.12 09:59:28 -
[153] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:hhhhhhhah you can't even give it ORE colors because that's taken by the Primae, which was handed out for free at one point as a subscription bonus
How excited do you really expect people to be over a Noctis SKIN. You couldn't help reusing a years-old hull for a new ship class? Come onnnn
It is great for the scammers in Jita, who are offering a "cheap" Noctis or Porpois and selling you a Primea... |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3658
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 10:16:03 -
[154] - Quote
HandelsPharmi wrote:
It is great for the scammers in Jita, who are offering a "cheap" Noctis or Porpois and selling you a Primea...
Except for the whole thing where markets & contracts show items by name, not by picture..... |
Whelm
CRA Haven
3
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Posted - 2016.10.12 15:25:54 -
[155] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:hhhhhhhah you can't even give it ORE colors because that's taken by the Primae, which was handed out for free at one point as a subscription bonus
How excited do you really expect people to be over a Noctis SKIN. You couldn't help reusing a years-old hull for a new ship class? Come onnnn
Noticed both the Noctis and the Primae have a new skin listed. a while/pink combo |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34270
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Posted - 2016.10.12 17:13:45 -
[156] - Quote
I get that a T2 Noctis has some traits that are in-line with command industrials, like the tractor bonus. My issue is with the model being reused. Perhaps I should back up and explain my confusion.
"Porpoise" sounds like a sleek, quick ship. Being the smallest of the command industrials line, it would make sense that the Porpoise would look and act like a sleek ship. The Noctis is not a sleek or quick ship. It won't become the backbone of a new OP kiting doctrine, it's a ship for miners and they deserve this.
The Porpoise was announced but the design of it was a big mystery until now. The lack of information about its looks made me think it was something new, or else why not just say it would use the Noctis model? Were you holding off on bad news?
So yeah, I had some anticipation here, and I feel let down.
What I expect would happen is that a new ship model was created to replace the Noctis hull. This way you'd get a new ship like people expect would happen, and you can get rid of the choked chicken Noctis already. What more of an occasion would you be waiting for?
Somewhat more bothersome is the pace of new and updated ships. Is this too much to expect?
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Cade Windstalker
571
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Posted - 2016.10.12 23:37:50 -
[157] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I get that a T2 Noctis has some traits that are in-line with command industrials, like the tractor bonus. My issue is with the model being reused. Perhaps I should back up and explain my confusion.
"Porpoise" sounds like a sleek, quick ship. Being the smallest of the command industrials line, it would make sense that the Porpoise would look and act like a sleek ship. The Noctis is not a sleek or quick ship. It won't become the backbone of a new OP kiting doctrine, it's a ship for miners and they deserve this.
The Porpoise was announced but the design of it was a big mystery until now. The lack of information about its looks made me think it was something new, or else why not just say it would use the Noctis model? Were you holding off on bad news?
So yeah, I had some anticipation here, and I feel let down.
What I expect would happen is that a new ship model was created to replace the Noctis hull. This way you'd get a new ship like people expect would happen, and you can get rid of the choked chicken Noctis already. What more of an occasion would you be waiting for?
Somewhat more bothersome is the pace of new and updated ships. Is this too much to expect?
The Porpoise is actually a T1 hull, not T2, it just uses the same model as the Noctis.
I'd also like to point out that the Noctis model is actually original to the Primae special edition ship. It was used for the Noctis in response to the players going "WTF this thing looks awesome and you used it for this crappy thing!?!?"
As to expectations, and this is all based on personal experience with development and my own opinion, while I understand the desire for the Porpoise to have its own model (I was hoping for something similar myself) I'm not really surprised it doesn't have one. The art pipeline is probably the most heavily loaded thing at CCP right now. It's dealing with new structures, hull revamps both large and small, new and revamped effects, and a backlog of features that probably stretches to 2020 (anyone else remember CCP talking about all active modules having a presence on the hull?).
So yeah, not really surprised CCP didn't have room for a new hull. I hope they'll give us one eventually but in the meantime I think using the Noctis hull is fine. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34271
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 00:14:18 -
[158] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Rain6637 wrote:I get that a T2 Noctis has some traits that are in-line with command industrials, like the tractor bonus. My issue is with the model being reused. Perhaps I should back up and explain my confusion.
"Porpoise" sounds like a sleek, quick ship. Being the smallest of the command industrials line, it would make sense that the Porpoise would look and act like a sleek ship. The Noctis is not a sleek or quick ship. It won't become the backbone of a new OP kiting doctrine, it's a ship for miners and they deserve this.
The Porpoise was announced but the design of it was a big mystery until now. The lack of information about its looks made me think it was something new, or else why not just say it would use the Noctis model? Were you holding off on bad news?
So yeah, I had some anticipation here, and I feel let down.
What I expect would happen is that a new ship model was created to replace the Noctis hull. This way you'd get a new ship like people expect would happen, and you can get rid of the choked chicken Noctis already. What more of an occasion would you be waiting for?
Somewhat more bothersome is the pace of new and updated ships. Is this too much to expect? The Porpoise is actually a T1 hull, not T2, it just uses the same model as the Noctis. I'd also like to point out that the Noctis model is actually original to the Primae special edition ship. It was used for the Noctis in response to the players going "WTF this thing looks awesome and you used it for this crappy thing!?!?" As to expectations, and this is all based on personal experience with development and my own opinion, while I understand the desire for the Porpoise to have its own model (I was hoping for something similar myself) I'm not really surprised it doesn't have one. The art pipeline is probably the most heavily loaded thing at CCP right now. It's dealing with new structures, hull revamps both large and small, new and revamped effects, and a backlog of features that probably stretches to 2020 (anyone else remember CCP talking about all active modules having a presence on the hull?). So yeah, not really surprised CCP didn't have room for a new hull. I hope they'll give us one eventually but in the meantime I think using the Noctis hull is fine. So outsource it. You're not asking for a block of game programming, it's a model and textures. CCP hasn't had a problem with using firms like Massive Black for what seems like most of DUST's art direction.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Rain6637
NulzSec
34271
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Posted - 2016.10.13 00:17:56 -
[159] - Quote
Come to think of it, if they're doing the modelling internally that's probably a mistake. They have artists yes but to CCP their value is in their ability to integrate assets into the game.
if assets are built outside CCP already and this is the pace we get I don't know what to say.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Cade Windstalker
571
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 00:51:31 -
[160] - Quote
Outsourcing of art assets is a pretty big Catch-22, and it only really works (at least from what I've heard, so this is by no means definitive) if you're going to be working with the same people for a long time. This helps keep the style and direction consistent and cuts down on the need for pieces to be re-done or tweaked in-house to meet quality/reqs.
If you outsource things you're getting people who haven't worked with the rest of your team, may or may not be familiar with your IP, and likely don't have nearly the same kind of investment in the lore of the game or its current look.
Case and point, there was a recent piece on Star Citizen's ongoing development which went into a fair amount of detail on rumored issues they've had with how spread out development is and their early decision to do a lot of work through contractors. Based on what we've heard since (the single player delay), and my own experiences, everything in that story checks out as plausible.
Plus on top of that if CCP could afford to hire an entire contract team for art, and it's going to be a long term/open ended contract, then there's no reason not to just hire more artists. If it's short term then the incentive to outsource for art and go through the problems of integrating them and getting them spun up is a decent incentive against bothering.
Personally the only time I think outsourcing like you're talking about makes sense is when you have a decent sized medium-term need but know demand is going to drop off heavily after a fixed period, OR you've made a decision to go with contract entirely for art and very little in-house and the relationship with the contractor is going to be for the life of the project. |
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Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
19
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Posted - 2016.10.13 01:18:23 -
[161] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:hhhhhhhah you can't even give it ORE colors because that's taken by the Primae, which was handed out for free at one point as a subscription bonus
How excited do you really expect people to be over a Noctis SKIN. You couldn't help reusing a years-old hull for a new ship class? Come onnnn
Contrary to the Big Lie of miners having influence over CCP ("one more nerf"), miners are actually a complacent lot happy to accept a sow's ear. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34271
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 03:11:04 -
[162] - Quote
I feel like I'm already toeing the boundary of candid feedback and toxic, so I'll stop here at what I hope will be seen as a suggestion.
Penance you have a point about people who will accept what's given to them. I guess that includes me in this case. I enjoy boosting for the RP and that includes mining.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Cade Windstalker
571
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Posted - 2016.10.13 04:15:59 -
[163] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I feel like I'm already toeing the boundary of candid feedback and toxic, so I'll stop here at what I hope will be seen as a suggestion.
Penance you have a point about people who will accept what's given to them. I guess that includes me in this case. I enjoy boosting for the RP and that includes mining.
For what it's worth I think Miners have more of a case for getting nice ship models (like the industrial update we just got) because they actually spend a decent amount of time staring at their ships. Most combat pilots see ships as O, X, or V surrounded by window frames.
I just kind of understand where CCP's art pipeline is (clogged with Citadels) so when something gets pushed back or pushed out without a new model I'm likely to be understanding.
I really do wish the Porpoise had its own model, or at least a more interesting one, but I don't think CCP should delay this update to wait on art assets. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34271
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 05:42:57 -
[164] - Quote
All I'm hearing is excuses right now.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
19
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Posted - 2016.10.13 06:47:22 -
[165] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I feel like I'm already toeing the boundary of candid feedback and toxic, so I'll stop here at what I hope will be seen as a suggestion.
Penance you have a point about people who will accept what's given to them. I guess that includes me in this case. I enjoy boosting for the RP and that includes mining.
The looming thing absent from these threads are actual miners. Who are largely not engaged at this level of the game. QQP Quant called them "traditionalists" in his 2014 Fanfest Presentation. Easily evident from comments of discovery by miners after the fact that the Hulk lost a mining strip. A mere handful come to comment post update. A tiny fraction of a real number of miners. Those that have shrugged their shoulders at the update, rolled up their sleeves and undocked in a new ship.To an activity that remains unchanged.
It would have been great to see a new hull for the Porpoise. The Attack Battlecruiser designs were sourced from a Deviant Art competition. Prehaps sometime in the future this is possible.
All said, I have not decided whether I will get the BPO or just merely just have a hull- but I will have one in the hanger regardless.
It would be nice to have an official/sanctioned mass test on Sisi with Endurances and Porpoises in Shattered. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2741
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Posted - 2016.10.13 09:44:55 -
[166] - Quote
Yes, it would be nice to see a new model for the Porpoise. I'm sure if I play Eve for another ten years I will eventually see one.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Cade Windstalker
571
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Posted - 2016.10.13 13:14:52 -
[167] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:The looming thing absent from these threads are actual miners. Who are largely not engaged at this level of the game. QQP Quant called them "traditionalists" in his 2014 Fanfest Presentation. Easily evident from comments of discovery by miners after the fact that the Hulk lost a mining strip. A mere handful come to comment post update. A tiny fraction of a real number of miners. Those that have shrugged their shoulders at the update, rolled up their sleeves and undocked in a new ship.To an activity that remains unchanged.
It would have been great to see a new hull for the Porpoise. The Attack Battlecruiser designs were sourced from a Deviant Art competition. Prehaps sometime in the future this is possible.
All said, I have not decided whether I will get the BPO or just merely just have a hull- but I will have one in the hanger regardless.
It would be nice to have an official/sanctioned mass test on Sisi with Endurances and Porpoises in Shattered.
I don't think we're seeing more or less participation from miners in these threads than we do from combat pilots, there are just more combat pilots than miners so their tiny fraction is more people than the miner's tiny fraction.
Every time CCP puts out a dev blog saying "we're changing a thing!" after a thread was up for a month there's suddenly a rush of people to the forums looking to comment (or more often speak out against) whatever is changing.
This lack of widespread engagement is part of why the CSM is so important and needs to be representative of the game as a whole, because we really can't count on the majority of players being engaged in its development.
Rain6637 wrote:All I'm hearing is excuses right now.
"We don't have the room in the art pipeline right now" isn't an excuse, it's a reason.
What, exactly, would the community as a whole like to give up in exchange for a mining boosting ship model? Pay more money so CCP can hire more art team? Or does a ship rework or something similar get pushed off to fit the new model into the pipeline? |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34271
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 13:19:21 -
[168] - Quote
I think it's pretty obvious to say the pace is what it is because difficulties. I guess you could say I just expect more.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Cade Windstalker
571
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Posted - 2016.10.13 13:34:27 -
[169] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I think it's pretty obvious to say the pace is what it is because difficulties. I guess you could say I just expect more.
The pace is what it is because doing a game right is time consuming, pretty much by definition.
The only time the pace is what most players consider "good" or "fast" is during early development before release, and that almost inevitably results in a lot of bugs and tech debt that the devs then have to fix. The only reason they go with that sort of pace early on is because they need to release the game and get it out making money.
Basically I've never seen a game where the players are going "yeah, I'm satisfied with the pace of development", which suggests that the problem is in players' expectations, not with every dev in the industry. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34271
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Posted - 2016.10.13 13:41:57 -
[170] - Quote
k
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Darth Bex
Boundless Exploration
40
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Posted - 2016.10.13 23:35:21 -
[171] - Quote
On the test server at the moment the Porpoise is appearing with 2 mids and 4 lows, I'm guessing that's just an error that will be corrected before testing is permitted?
Disciple of Bob
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
65
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Posted - 2016.10.13 23:57:33 -
[172] - Quote
HOLY HEK!
So uh. whats with all the shiny little lights moving around the porpoise hull?
i also noticed the lights on the orca and rorqual as well! also THERE IS A TON OF DIFRENT SKINS FOR EM. like minmatar/amarr/gallente/caldari as well as skins for all of the pirate factions! and they are all called (industry livery skin)whats up with that??? |
Andrea Cemenotar
Elena Minasse Operations
31
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Posted - 2016.10.14 09:34:03 -
[173] - Quote
welp as for me the only thing I'd actually need with this is noctis hull model being "updated to fit more with new ore hulls"
other than that ships seems ok |
Omar Little
Consider Phlebas...
0
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Posted - 2016.10.14 14:28:02 -
[174] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Ydnari wrote:How about the industry information, is this an inventable T2 from the Noctis, or a T1 hull with its own BPO? T1 hull with a BPO sold by ORE.
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Cade Windstalker
574
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Posted - 2016.10.14 15:55:32 -
[175] - Quote
Omar Little wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Ydnari wrote:How about the industry information, is this an inventable T2 from the Noctis, or a T1 hull with its own BPO? T1 hull with a BPO sold by ORE.
Care to elaborate a little? Lol.
The Porpoise is supposed to be the introductory Boosting ship for mining. Making it T2 doesn't make sense in that context. It's basically a mining BC. |
Darryn Lowe
Golden Duck Frigate Mining Corp
50
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Posted - 2016.10.14 20:42:28 -
[176] - Quote
Why are people railing on the Noctis hull? I like it. I love that spinning thing that doesn't make any sense to exist. :-)
The speed though. I think the Orca moves faster than that thing. |
Rain6637
NulzSec
34278
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 20:54:58 -
[177] - Quote
There is a distinction to be made here. The Noctis hull is cool. Salvage is an important gameplay mechanic and in the right situations it brings in a lot of ISK. The look of the Noctis has always fit its role.
With the upcoming expansion there are very nice, awesome, amazing additions to the game like Industrial complexes, and leadership boosting is also undergoing a fundamental change. The small mining booster ship is also completely new.
The Noctis hull is cool, but reusing it for this occasion of A Bunch Of Cool Things seems underwhelming.
What's in a ship model, though. Right? It's only the most identifiable object that represents the player's existence in the game. When this is a new expansion and a new ship, does it feel completely right that your super cool new game piece is basically a Player B outfit
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Kenrailae
Syndicate Enterprise Northern Coalition.
637
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Posted - 2016.10.14 21:15:11 -
[178] - Quote
I was always player 1. Oldest sibling perk.
The Law is a point of View
The NPE IS a big deal
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Cade Windstalker
582
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Posted - 2016.10.15 01:28:57 -
[179] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:There is a distinction to be made here. The Noctis hull is cool. Salvage is an important gameplay mechanic and in the right situations it brings in a lot of ISK. The look of the Noctis has always fit its role.
With the upcoming expansion there are very nice, awesome, amazing additions to the game like Industrial complexes, and leadership boosting is also undergoing a fundamental change. The small mining booster ship is also completely new.
The Noctis hull is cool, but reusing it for this occasion of A Bunch Of Cool Things seems underwhelming.
What's in a ship model, though. Right? It's only the most identifiable object that represents the player's existence in the game. When this is a new expansion and a new ship, does it feel completely right that your super cool new game piece is basically a Player B outfit
Okay, should they put off the mining revamp until they have another ship model done?
It's not even like the Porpoise is a terribly important ship either, it's a newbie-friendly mining booster. Most older players will use an Orca or Rorqual. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
71
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Posted - 2016.10.15 01:34:54 -
[180] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Rain6637 wrote:There is a distinction to be made here. The Noctis hull is cool. Salvage is an important gameplay mechanic and in the right situations it brings in a lot of ISK. The look of the Noctis has always fit its role.
With the upcoming expansion there are very nice, awesome, amazing additions to the game like Industrial complexes, and leadership boosting is also undergoing a fundamental change. The small mining booster ship is also completely new.
The Noctis hull is cool, but reusing it for this occasion of A Bunch Of Cool Things seems underwhelming.
What's in a ship model, though. Right? It's only the most identifiable object that represents the player's existence in the game. When this is a new expansion and a new ship, does it feel completely right that your super cool new game piece is basically a Player B outfit Okay, should they put off the mining revamp until they have another ship model done? It's not even like the Porpoise is a terribly important ship either, it's a newbie-friendly mining booster. Most older players will use an Orca or Rorqual. I do belive you are missing one important aspect of the porpoise. the fact that it can pass trough frigate only wormholes. imagine a battlecruiser like ship in a wormhole where only frigates should be allowed. with powered up drones to take on any small frigate gangs that might apear to try and gank some endurances or prospects. and if you have 3 you could spider tank a little thanks to the porpoises enhanced remote shield bonuses. people will think twice about attacking a well prepared wormhole mining fleet lol. altough i guess bombers might be a bit of a problem... but hey. there needs to be a paper for your rock somewhere lol |
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