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Jhani Bralhast
7
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Posted - 2016.10.10 14:41:05 -
[31] - Quote
As a career solo hi-sec miner (with occasional forays into null-sec corp mining), I honestly don't see what the problem the OP has other than being too stubborn to move to a quieter system. There are other hi-sec systems too numerous to count where you could get away from this so-called griefer and maintain your basic level of productivity.
When the gankers get a bit too thick in my system of choice, I simply move a system or two over and never see them at all. Ever. Sure I may lose a few minutes trucking my ore over to be processed, but that's a minor inconvenience at best. Far less annoying than dodging gangs of Catalysts roaming about every 15 minutes. |
Minabunny
Dread Guard
70
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Posted - 2016.10.10 15:10:33 -
[32] - Quote
These are the type of players that CCP markets too -- They will do nothing. You will have to move to another system. If you like to mine I would suggest considering moving to a worm hole. I'm sure you could find a small WH industry corp, or one that simply rents space or if you have enough Isk you could find a system and put up your own citadel.
While it may seem more dangerous as there is no 'local' as a early warning system (use dscan) and no concord you will find players that frequent WH space are not interested in harassing you on a daily basis. They will just attack . There was a time in my eve career where that's all I did was mine in HS. I can tell you from my experience you will deal with far less griefers in the hole and be much more profitable. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
18530
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Posted - 2016.10.10 15:33:25 -
[33] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Is this guy in a NPC corp? If not, this is what wardecs are for. Yeah he is, it's probably an alt of one of the other local ice miner's though ( Trixie little hobbyists miners , Ralph knows) If he can figure out who that is he would be better for slapping them about.
Praposal:Un-F**k Locator Agants
Praposal:Un-F**k NPC Corps
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Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
75
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Posted - 2016.10.10 20:51:32 -
[34] - Quote
Orbit the ice, it's very hard to hit a moving target. The only problem is you have to pay attention to the game as your ship will drift off into the distance when the chunk of ice is gone. |
Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
172
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Posted - 2016.10.10 21:57:11 -
[35] - Quote
Nero Jove wrote:Just curious if a player doing nothing but continually harassing players in a system all day long would be considered griefing by CCP? It was a peaceful system until this guy showed up . First came his 10 toon ice mining fleet. Then came his griefer. He bumps and bumps and bumps. every spawn - every single day. He never misses one. The obvious answer is just leave the system, but that feels like such a cop out. Ideas of how to deal with this are appreciated. Gank his fleet. My interpretation of the Holy Code is that it is our collective responsibility to protect His fields from wanton greed and bot-aspirancy. His agents are as monks. They spread the good news, act in His name, collect alms, and make pilgrimages to the First Field. They are reliable, but sadly not ever present. As His faithful, we should ensure that blasphemies of the kind you describe do not go unanswered. Take up the catalyst and purge these transgressors from your midst.
Back to reality for a moment. This guy probably has all of his alts in NPC corp to keep them safe from wardecs. After the November update, combined with the many incremental nerfs to "content creation" this guy's ice fleet will be very nearly invulnerable. He will be safe from all but the most dedicated of suicide gank attacks. Now, he is altering the game immensely for the normal residents of this system, and there is not a thing they will be able to do about it.
This is why NPC corps need to be vulnerable to wardecs. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5915
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Posted - 2016.10.10 22:18:18 -
[36] - Quote
Nahkep Narmelion wrote:Nero Jove wrote:All good advice. Just hard to pick up and leave when you call a system home for two years. Fighting options in high security when he is an NPC corp are pretty limited. Tell that to CCP which has been removing your options over time....your problem is not with this player but with CCP, IMO.
Not really CCP's fault. Players are becoming more efficient at their specialisations too. Ice miners have optimised their fleets, gankers have optimised their fittings. Chances are if you are in a belt long enough, you will get blown up and sometimes podded.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
841
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Posted - 2016.10.11 04:16:08 -
[37] - Quote
Surely you can gank the bumping ship, yes? |
Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
76
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Posted - 2016.10.11 06:28:07 -
[38] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Surely you can gank the bumping ship, yes?
No, Concord protects bumpers and that's why I can't understand the butthurt when they say stuff like "Say thanks to all the highsec carebears who cried so hard year after year so that CCP removed all options and made it possible to create practically ungankable mining fleets."
Bumpers are only in highsec for a reason, Concord protection. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
182
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Posted - 2016.10.11 06:32:16 -
[39] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nero Jove wrote:All good advice. Just hard to pick up and leave when you call a system home for two years. Fighting options in high security when he is an NPC corp are pretty limited. errm, guns work pretty well. whats he fly? how does he fit (you know you can scan his fit right) do you know who his main is? if you do id definitly shoot that
Devils abdicate here, Suppose he's in an NPC corp so there's no legal way to wardec him, and thus any attempts to shoot him yield the loss of sec status and ship?
NPC corps are the best way to grief bump others continuously, as we are seeing. The game mechanics do not allow for revenge without taking huge penalties over time.
Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2893
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Posted - 2016.10.11 07:19:46 -
[40] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Surely you can gank the bumping ship, yes? No, Concord protects bumpers and that's why I can't understand the butthurt when they say stuff like "Say thanks to all the highsec carebears who cried so hard year after year so that CCP removed all options and made it possible to create practically ungankable mining fleets." Bumpers are only in highsec for a reason, Concord protection.
So usually the discussion goes like this:
If the ganker kills a mining ship then: - CONCORD is too weak and does not really protect the mining ship - There are no real consequences for criminal actions - Sec status is meaningless - Killrights are meaningless - Low value ships killing high value ships is not balanced - Ganking is too easy and only scrubs who would fails at realPVPGäķ do it
If the miner wants to kill a bumper then: - CONCORD is too strong and protecting the bumper! - Can't attack because consequences are too stronk! - My precious sec status! - They will even get a killright and I will not be able to undock a ship FOR A MONTH! - I will lose ISK if I gank the bumper because ganking ships are so expensive! - I don't even know where to start, ganking is too hard and everyone will just shoot me!!
I actually thought about starting a mining operation myself recently, because if an ice system is left to itself there are fleets of miners stripping the new anomany in a hour or two, there seams to be competition around ice but only on the level of who mines more faster. Yet when I warp in with my scout, half the people dock immediately and the rest after one or two of their firends exploded. If there is a skiff fleet left you can easily get rid of them by bumping their Orca out.
So I am not surprised this is actually starting to happen. I think it is a really good strategy to kill/bump your competition and get all the ice for yourself. On the other hand I find it quite ironic that miners now cry how they can do nothing about those competitive miners because they actually locked themselves out of the tools to actually fight the guy with their constant demands for more safety. So excuse me when I point at them and laugh
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18282
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Posted - 2016.10.11 07:36:43 -
[41] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Nero Jove wrote:All good advice. Just hard to pick up and leave when you call a system home for two years. Fighting options in high security when he is an NPC corp are pretty limited. Say thanks to all the highsec carebears who cried so hard year after year so that CCP removed all options and made it possible to create practically ungankable mining fleets. I'm not sure suicide ganking was intended to be profitable at any point of time. And if you make ISK other way then you have no 'practically ungankable' stuff. It is even more possible in this case when people competing for resources. Then expence for ganking can be looked at as investment.
CCP changed the nature of the game. Used to be you were safe from ganking if you fitted a token tank that made you unprofitable to gank (unless something like hulkageddon or an ice interdiction was happening but those were rare). Now everything aside from a skiff is a target and ganked because gankers simple target everything no matter the fit.
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Anthar Thebess
1657
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Posted - 2016.10.11 09:28:48 -
[42] - Quote
Problem is that CCP tries to do EVE dumb prof to get more players, and yet biggest online was before this changes where made. With the old mechanics griefing was never huge issue, as you could counter play it quite easily.
Ganking recently became some issue to players also because of the changes CCP introduced over the time. Constant buff to possible targets made some people to quit, but most of them to organize into bigger groups and train additional gank characters. 50 people working separately cannot do as much chaos like 50 people working together. Big gank groups allow fast responses, choke point monitoring but also require higher activity so every one get daily kills.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
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Gregorius Goldstein
Ze One Man Show
678
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Posted - 2016.10.11 10:36:55 -
[43] - Quote
Nero Jove wrote:Just curious if a player doing nothing but continually harassing players in a system all day long would be considered griefing by CCP? It was a peaceful system until this guy showed up . First came his 10 toon ice mining fleet. Then came his griefer. He bumps and bumps and bumps. every spawn - every single day. He never misses one. The obvious answer is just leave the system, but that feels like such a cop out. Ideas of how to deal with this are appreciated.
Cloak up and check if he uses bots. If he isn't everything else is fair game per EVE standards. Having the numbers/power/dedication to drive others from your turf is what EVE is mostly about anyway. If you are scard of 10 miners/mining accounts and one bumper you should do something about that. |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
289
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Posted - 2016.10.11 11:33:30 -
[44] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Surely you can gank the bumping ship, yes? No, Concord protects bumpers and that's why I can't understand the butthurt when they say stuff like "Say thanks to all the highsec carebears who cried so hard year after year so that CCP removed all options and made it possible to create practically ungankable mining fleets." Bumpers are only in highsec for a reason, Concord protection.
False. Concord punishes the gankers afterwards. They do not prevent ganks or protect the bumper.
What is he using to bump? Most belt bumping I've seen has been with, at best, a speed fit faction cruiser. It doesn't take many destroyers to gank one of those. |
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
260
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Posted - 2016.10.11 12:17:15 -
[45] - Quote
Wardec or keep bumping
All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
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Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
76
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Posted - 2016.10.12 03:03:56 -
[46] - Quote
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Yossarian Toralen wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Surely you can gank the bumping ship, yes? No, Concord protects bumpers and that's why I can't understand the butthurt when they say stuff like "Say thanks to all the highsec carebears who cried so hard year after year so that CCP removed all options and made it possible to create practically ungankable mining fleets." Bumpers are only in highsec for a reason, Concord protection. False. Concord punishes the gankers afterwards. They do not prevent ganks or protect the bumper. What is he using to bump? Most belt bumping I've seen has been with, at best, a speed fit faction cruiser. It doesn't take many destroyers to gank one of those.
You can mine all day in low and null and never see someone annoying a miner by bumper them, shooting yes, but never bumping.
You can bump all day in highsec all under the protection of Concord, anything that could catch and keep a point on it would be a wreck before bump ship is. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
845
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Posted - 2016.10.12 04:55:17 -
[47] - Quote
Yup. When living in regulated space, expect the rules to sometimes favour the other guy.
(although it's still my opinion bumping is a bad mechanic, bumping and ganking are unfortunately also the ONLY mechanics with which you can interact with NPC duders .....)
As I'm sure others already advised: if you're not a spacelawyer, there is nothing worthwhile in highsec. Get out of there, quickly!
Cheers,
-El Brokkmeister |
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
19
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Posted - 2016.10.12 05:41:59 -
[48] - Quote
- Switch to an Endurance and orbit.
- Hire some Mercs
- Move Systems
- get some friends and bump
The fleet would have a Off-Grd Booster. In a month it will have be on-grid and vulnerable. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26961
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Posted - 2016.10.12 13:16:11 -
[49] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote:You can bump all day in highsec all under the protection of Concord Concord aren't there to protect people, they're there to punish them for breaking the only law in hisec, which is that you don't activate an offensive module on another capsuleer without sanction.
Also this
Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:The only things that Concord protects are beyond the door, especially the donut shops that can be found on level 2 of the food mall present in every station.
Civilised behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
New Player FAQ
Feyd's Survival Pack
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Rhalina Sedai
Notice Has Been Served
35
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Posted - 2016.10.12 13:28:17 -
[50] - Quote
Nero Jove wrote:Just curious if a player doing nothing but continually harassing players in a system all day long would be considered griefing by CCP? It was a peaceful system until this guy showed up . First came his 10 toon ice mining fleet. Then came his griefer. He bumps and bumps and bumps. every spawn - every single day. He never misses one. The obvious answer is just leave the system, but that feels like such a cop out. Ideas of how to deal with this are appreciated.
Here is a couple of suggestions, log in every day with a fast ship and start bumping his mining fleet. Also give his mining toons a 315 315 bounty. Drop corp so you can't be decked as well. If your really twisted you could also send a covert message to the so called New Order telling them there is a juicy mining fleet ready for the picking.
FSOP (Free Systems of Panorad)
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
289
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Posted - 2016.10.12 13:33:01 -
[51] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote: You can mine all day in low and null and never see someone annoying a miner by bumper them, shooting yes, but never bumping.
You can bump all day in highsec all under the protection of Concord, anything that could catch and keep a point on it would be a wreck before bump ship is.
No point in bumping a miner in low sec. The only reason you're being bumped in high sec is because he doesn't have enough DPS to solo gank you before Concord arrives.
You don't have to be able to catch him. Fleet with bumped ship. Warp to zero on the bumped ship. Gank bumper.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5293
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Posted - 2016.10.12 17:23:17 -
[52] - Quote
Nero Jove wrote:Just curious if a player doing nothing but continually harassing players in a system all day long would be considered griefing by CCP? It was a peaceful system until this guy showed up . First came his 10 toon ice mining fleet. Then came his griefer. He bumps and bumps and bumps. every spawn - every single day. He never misses one. The obvious answer is just leave the system, but that feels like such a cop out. Ideas of how to deal with this are appreciated.
Get some buddies and shoot him in the face.
War dec him, and shoot him in the face some more.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5293
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Posted - 2016.10.12 17:30:48 -
[53] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nero Jove wrote:All good advice. Just hard to pick up and leave when you call a system home for two years. Fighting options in high security when he is an NPC corp are pretty limited. errm, guns work pretty well. whats he fly? how does he fit (you know you can scan his fit right) do you know who his main is? if you do id definitly shoot that Devils abdicate here, Suppose he's in an NPC corp so there's no legal way to wardec him, and thus any attempts to shoot him yield the loss of sec status and ship? NPC corps are the best way to grief bump others continuously, as we are seeing. The game mechanics do not allow for revenge without taking huge penalties over time.
Wait wut?!?!?!?!
Isn't the narrative that there are no penalties to ganking!?!?!?!?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Fecal Fingers
Drama Inc. Coalition of the Unfortunate
0
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Posted - 2016.10.12 18:59:12 -
[54] - Quote
I've been going to the doctor for regular checkups and cancer screenings and have been cancer free... up until I read this post. |
Commander Spurty
1643
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:20:56 -
[55] - Quote
I've got 8 points of sec status I can waste on wasting him if that's helpful.
Obviously I don't care a whole ton about the repercussions. I live in null. Would be a special trip for a special soldier
There are good ships,
And wood ships,
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Spurty
1649
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Posted - 2016.10.12 19:20:56 -
[56] - Quote
I've got 8 points of sec status I can waste on wasting him if that's helpful.
Obviously I don't care a whole ton about the repercussions. I live in null. Would be a special trip for a special soldier
There are good ships,
And wood ships,
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are Spaceships
Built by CCP
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pajedas
Special Activities Division
273
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Posted - 2016.10.13 04:16:48 -
[57] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:have you tried ... you know ... doing something about it, like shooting him in the mouth? WTF does that even mean Ralph?
"Bloody Toilet, Guilty Miner, Part 1" G˙ā That's the kind of content james315 creates.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5331
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Posted - 2016.10.13 04:26:04 -
[58] - Quote
pajedas wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:have you tried ... you know ... doing something about it, like shooting him in the mouth? WTF does that even mean Ralph?
You get in a ship, fly up to his bumping ship and shoot him....the "in the mouth" is just colorful language.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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ISD Fractal
isd community communications liaisons
1261
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Posted - 2016.10.13 13:16:55 -
[59] - Quote
I removed a post that did not contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way.
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Rush Crosix
The Black Crow Bandits Sarcos Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.10.13 17:20:48 -
[60] - Quote
I feel like the conversation should probably have a bit more information added to it in order to come to a rational suggestion.
-How many accounts are you running for your mining operation/how many others are there (approx) -Do you make enough to be able to afford a suicide ganking squad? -Do you make enough to replace ships if/when they are suicide ganked?
Reason I mention this is to establish what the loss value is. It would come down to this: IF they are suicide ganking you, and its not a 'CODE' group or some group of that establishment, then is he killing enough to make it unprofitable to mine out there?
If it is becoming too much of a problem, then I would suggest taking CODE up on their offer. They might be willing to camp him out for a high price. Just make sure you can financially back it up.
Hope this helps. -Rush |
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