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CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 599	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:55:10 - [1] - Quote Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion. Goals Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate. Differentiate the power projection of Capitals and Sub-Capitals. Allow alternative logistics and force projection paths into space that is currently very difficult to access. Open up chokepoints and allow jump paths to be a little less predictable. Changes All Capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreadnoughts) have their base jump range increased to 3.5 (+1) light years (7 (+2) light years max skills) All Super-Capitals (Supercarriers, Titans) have their base jump & bridge range increased to 3 (+0.5) light years (6 (+1) light years max skills) We hope this change will alleviate some of the problems capital pilots are currently facing. This is only an incremental change, as we said at Fanfest we believe that the capital force projection system needs further work. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin


CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 599	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:55:18 - [2] - Quote Reserved for Q&A Game Designer \| Team Five-0 \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 6209	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:57:11 - [3] - Quote \o/ Woo! CSM XI! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
lanyaie Nocturnal Romance The Initiative. 1151	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:57:31 - [4] - Quote Is this Christmas? CCP I love you. Albeit, I'm going to be honest, I personally dislike the discrepancy between the jump ranges of supers and regular capitals, mainly because now I'll have to also figure out if supers have the jump range to reach a desto. But I shouldn't complain, an increase is an increase. Spaceprincess
Yasemin Hanim Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 10	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:58:38 - [5] - Quote FINALLY GÖÑ
Fungus Amongus Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition 2	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:58:59 - [6] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two 1547	Posted - 2016.10.11 11:59:02 - [7] - Quote \o/
Cpt Patrick Archer Quam Singulari Triumvirate. 63	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:00:15 - [8] - Quote Any changes to jump fatigue? This will obviously hit caps harder due to further range. Effectively still limiting them to the original range. Moving long distances just becomes a tiny little bit easier due to having to do less jumps. However you still have to wait longer periods of time right?
NoobMan Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 305	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:02:12 - [9] - Quote Can you explain how max LY Fatigue will work. Like if you jump 7LY how much blue fatigue and red fatigue you will get and if these numbers change from 5 LY. Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
tgl3 Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde 546	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:05:41 - [10] - Quote Aside from queries about jump fatigue scaling with the changes, will any changes be made to any other jump or bridging capabilities (such as BLOPS)? Ex EVE Blogger - old posts still available at Through Newb Eyes

Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3550	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:06:29 - [11] - Quote will blops be getting a boost in range to compensate? Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 307	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:07:03 - [12] - Quote Please drop the diffrence between supers and normal caps. make them all either 6 or 7
CynoNet Two GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 713	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:08:05 - [13] - Quote NoobMan wrote: Can you explain how max LY Fatigue will work. Like if you jump 7LY how much blue fatigue and red fatigue you will get and if these numbers change from 5 LY. Assuming the formula stays the same, 1h20m blue and 8m red
Canenald Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 88	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:08:42 - [14] - Quote Circle-of-Test too stronk. NCPL had to batphone CCP to change jump ranges again.
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 400	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:08:49 - [15] - Quote As a member of a small alliance, i think there's changes are bad for the game. PL/NC need to have their jump range nerves not buffed. How am i supposed to rat in safety in my Nyx
Sentient Blade Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate 1714	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:09:02 - [16] - Quote It's a nice iteration. I still think there should be some kind of bonus based on distance from initial position when fatigued was incurred to allow easier jumping around your local area, maybe even negate a jump from an alliance capital system.
Drew Li Space Exploitation Inc Goonswarm Federation 54	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:09:16 - [17] - Quote Fatigue = Distance^n / scaling factor and mostly ditch the limits. Allow that 20ly jump, but effectively ground the fleet afterwards. Also makes local logistics easier as less fatigue would be accrued. As for supers/titans, they can go the same distance, maybe just accrue fatigue faster doing it.
Mymilkshakebringsallthe Boystothyard Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:09:31 - [18] - Quote when you gonna fix citadels ? cant dock.. cant tether type of thing.
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 400	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:09:35 - [19] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: As a member of a small alliance, i think there's changes are bad for the game. PL/NC need to have their jump range nerves not buffed. How am i supposed to rat in safety in my Nyx ****, logged in wrong pilot to forums
Querns GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2532	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:10:21 - [20] - Quote Have you considered making jump bridges 6LY, to match titan range? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

mirae asset Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:10:25 - [21] - Quote \o/
Jew Jew Binks Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:11:31 - [22] - Quote please give something to jump freighters too
Rob Kaichin Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists 162	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:11:48 - [23] - Quote Quote: Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate. Differentiate the power projection of Capitals and Sub-Capitals. Do you mean Super-capitals? Anyway, what's the interesting gameplay in having differentiated jump ranges for S-Caps and Caps, as compared to a flat buff for both of them?
Kismeteer Bat Country Pandemic Legion 888	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:15:31 - [24] - Quote Alternately, could you consider adding a few more long haul gates, forcing capitals to go through gates again to move around quickly.
Edriahn Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 22	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:16:22 - [25] - Quote Jew Jew Binks wrote: please give something to jump freighters too Listen to this man. Also I get it, **** supers, that's fine, they represent a serious force projection. But give us something. 7ly is a minor change. New Eden is big, choke points are everywhere. Make it 10 or 9 at least, this will change things a lot. Most importantly, Fattigue(see, I even used the name you prefer for it, instead of the a lot more fitting "fatty gay", "Space cancer", "Phoebe AIDS" and so on) should be reduced a it, shouldn't it? Help us out here. [20:46:05] Komahal > pl is cancer
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 402	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:16:54 - [26] - Quote Rob Kaichin wrote: Quote: Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate. Differentiate the power projection of Capitals and Sub-Capitals. Do you mean Super-capitals? Anyway, what's the interesting gameplay in having differentiated jump ranges for S-Caps and Caps, as compared to a flat buff for both of them? I think he means bridging i.e. Sub-caps
Morrigan LeSante Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two 1547	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:17:33 - [27] - Quote Querns wrote: Have you considered making jump bridges 6LY, to match titan range? It is, unless it was a ninja edit by Larrikin
Tara Read Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 871	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:20:51 - [28] - Quote First off thank you for this welcomed change. I do have a question. Seeing as you want to increase capital combat why in the world would FAX's have a different jump range compared to Supers and Titans? I hope you all haven't forgotten your own rebalance changes in Citadel that make having a Fax mandatory for any serious engagement. So in reality you are only increasing the jump range by 1 light year.
Rola Lennt WelTraum Corp 2	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:20:58 - [29] - Quote Edriahn wrote: Most importantly, Fattigue should be reduced a it, shouldn't it? Help us out here. your CSM got us this change and now you ask for more? talking about cant get enough.
Bobmon Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 187	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:21:19 - [30] - Quote Yeeeeeeeey EN24 CEO / Chief Editor [@BobmonEve][2] - Third Party Service - #HABIT - Bobmon for CSM

Dianila Artemisa No.Mercy Triumvirate. 23	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:23:27 - [31] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Querns wrote: Have you considered making jump bridges 6LY, to match titan range? It is, unless it was a ninja edit by Larrikin I think he's talking about the structures :)
Soleil Fournier Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 152	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:23:34 - [32] - Quote Any increase in the Jump Ranges are welcome. The 6 LY range might not be enough for supers due to regional divides, but the additional jump paths that one extra LY offers will help take the edge off the frustrations over lack of jump paths.
Mephiztopheleze Laphroaig Inc. 993	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:23:56 - [33] - Quote Will Black Ops Battleships be receiving any of this goodness? Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Pandoralica DEFCON. The Initiative. 2	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:24:36 - [34] - Quote Shouldn't we be buffing content creation instead of things like citadels, faxes and supers that are killing content more than anything? where is the logic?
Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3551	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:26:08 - [35] - Quote Pandoralica wrote: Shouldn't we be buffing content creation instead of things like citadels, faxes and supers that are killing content more than anything? where is the logic? ccp want ncpl to kill the game so everyone leaves and they can finally shut the servers down, didnt you know? Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
Durallian Order Collective Blades of Grass 1	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:26:41 - [36] - Quote I think it would be awesome to see the Jump freight range increased slightly. JFs provide the back bone of Null PVP with moving ships for other people to shoot and be shot at. This would keep a balance of using JFs in this role.
vallenaa Bored Baked British Basterds 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:27:26 - [37] - Quote Literally the week i sell my Hel and melt my pilots brain because the current state of jump drives is a **** joke and has been for years. Thanks ccp but a little too late.
slamjam jump fatigue and griffins online killed this game 1	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:27:51 - [38] - Quote pls just remove jump fatigue, you already killed broski rip broski
Morrigan LeSante Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two 1547	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:32:55 - [39] - Quote Dianila Artemisa wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Querns wrote: Have you considered making jump bridges 6LY, to match titan range? It is, unless it was a ninja edit by Larrikin I think he's talking about the structures :) Ah well yeah in that case I stand corrected
RiotRick Alpha Republic - Transcenders of Space and Time Solyaris Chtonium 19	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:34:29 - [40] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion. Goals Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate. Differentiate the power projection of Capitals and Super-Capitals. Allow alternative logistics and force projection paths into space that is currently very difficult to access. Open up chokepoints and allow jump paths to be a little less predictable. Changes All Capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreadnoughts) have their base jump range increased to 3.5 (+1) light years (7 (+2) light years max skills) All Super-Capitals (Supercarriers, Titans) have their base jump & bridge range increased to 3 (+0.5) light years (6 (+1) light years max skills) We hope this change will alleviate some of the problems capital pilots are currently facing. This is only an incremental change, as we said at Fanfest we believe that the capital force projection system needs further work. Can we increase jump bridge ranges plz?

slamjam jump fatigue and griffins online killed this game 1	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:35:05 - [41] - Quote also make entosis mods immune to ecm/targeting loss and preform a rollback to 2013
Zaffington 0.0 Massive Dynamic Test Alliance Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:36:31 - [42] - Quote Really interesting change... if anything, I would go with max LY range of Supers - 4, Caps - 6, BLOPS - 8, JF - 10 as a tiered system. Not overly comfortable BLOPS / CAPS being so close in range capabilities; but def. feel the concept of roaming Super / Titan fleets is not healthy for the game. I would love CCP to reiterate the current intent / purpose behind a super carrier or titan; what role exactly do they believe these ships play in the game? Maybe even separate out supers and titans apart from each other... slow titans down and bump supers up on par with standard caps? So interesting that CCP are budging on this... even though the fatigue system still keeps things relatively in check. Cannot wait to see what they do next.
Morrigan LeSante Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two 1547	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:36:36 - [43] - Quote RiotRick wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion. Goals Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate. Differentiate the power projection of Capitals and Super-Capitals. Allow alternative logistics and force projection paths into space that is currently very difficult to access. Open up chokepoints and allow jump paths to be a little less predictable. Changes All Capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreadnoughts) have their base jump range increased to 3.5 (+1) light years (7 (+2) light years max skills) All Super-Capitals (Supercarriers, Titans) have their base jump & bridge range increased to 3 (+0.5) light years (6 (+1) light years max skills) We hope this change will alleviate some of the problems capital pilots are currently facing. This is only an incremental change, as we said at Fanfest we believe that the capital force projection system needs further work. Can we increase jump bridge ranges plz? >>To answer your point, we're not planning any changes to POS's Jump Bridges. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/56xmde/ascension_increased_jump_ranges_to_all_capital/d8n7vn3
HarlyQ harlyq syrokos investment station Goonswarm Federation 126	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:37:19 - [44] - Quote Thank you for this now just increase jf range to 15 ly like it should be for a logistics ship.
Ncc 1709 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc. 307	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:38:55 - [45] - Quote Jump Bridge to 7.5 please
Mikami Yua Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:39:53 - [46] - Quote I think both Caps and Supercaps should have the same range, otherwise it is just adding unnecessary complication which doesn't really benefit the game.
vallenaa Bored Baked British Basterds 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:42:10 - [47] - Quote Zaffington wrote: I would love CCP to reiterate the current intent / purpose behind a super carrier or titan; what role exactly do they believe these ships play in the game? They literally ****** that up earlier this year and caused the current roaming fleets.
Tara Read Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 872	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:42:58 - [48] - Quote Zaffington wrote: Really interesting change... if anything, I would go with max LY range of Supers - 4, Caps - 6, BLOPS - 8, JF - 10 as a tiered system. Not overly comfortable BLOPS / CAPS being so close in range capabilities; but def. feel the concept of roaming Super / Titan fleets is not healthy for the game. I would love CCP to reiterate the current intent / purpose behind a super carrier or titan; what role exactly do they believe these ships play in the game? Maybe even separate out supers and titans apart from each other... slow titans down and bump supers up on par with standard caps? So interesting that CCP are budging on this... even though the fatigue system still keeps things relatively in check. Cannot wait to see what they do next. This is ********. Stop commenting. Thank You.
Zaffington 0.0 Massive Dynamic Test Alliance Please Ignore 2	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:47:34 - [49] - Quote I'm also wondering what the motivation behind this change is; are there some stats that show carrier / dread / faxes are not being used as much post the cap changes? Is the general feeling that tweaking mobility may result in more capital brawls without the fear of the super menace? I've got to admit, I do miss the old days ... Supers online really isn't much fun atm. Especially when they all keep blue'ing each other~
Ryanis Beyond Frontier Brave Collective 2	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:51:17 - [50] - Quote Hello there, Interesting change. I like the idea of cap and super-cap having different jump range. Two questions though : - Will jump bridges (the static POS ones) range stay in line with titan bridge range ? - Will Black ops range increase ? Regards, Ryanis

Barrogh Habalu Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 1132	Posted - 2016.10.11 12:54:06 - [51] - Quote Ncc 1709 wrote: Please drop the diffrence between supers and normal caps. make them all either 6 or 7 Since you're fine with 6 LY jump range on everything, you can always jump your caps a bit less than their maximum Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Romana Erebus Syndicate Enterprise Northern Coalition. 54	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:00:42 - [52] - Quote well we aren't going with what you want so live with it. you are getting roaming supers and titans regardless of jump ranges dude. they do jump thru gates you know? Zaffington wrote: Really interesting change... if anything, I would go with max LY range of Supers - 4, Caps - 6, BLOPS - 8, JF - 10 as a tiered system. Not overly comfortable BLOPS / CAPS being so close in range capabilities; but def. feel the concept of roaming Super / Titan fleets is not healthy for the game. I would love CCP to reiterate the current intent / purpose behind a super carrier or titan; what role exactly do they believe these ships play in the game? Maybe even separate out supers and titans apart from each other... slow titans down and bump supers up on par with standard caps? So interesting that CCP are budging on this... even though the fatigue system still keeps things relatively in check. Cannot wait to see what they do next.
Jankos Sabannfuhrer Higher Than Everest The-Culture 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:09:19 - [53] - Quote now dramatically reduce jump fatigue or trash the system altogether

CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 602	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:09:38 - [54] - Quote 2nd post updated with common questions & answers! Game Designer \| Team Five-0 \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Soleil Fournier Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 152	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:12:10 - [55] - Quote Zaffington wrote: I'm also wondering what the motivation behind this change is; are there some stats that show carrier / dread / faxes are not being used as much post the cap changes? He gave the motivation/goals in the OP....
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 299	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:15:40 - [56] - Quote Jankos Sabannfuhrer wrote: now dramatically reduce jump fatigue or trash the system altogether Just NO.
Moustache Cuir Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation 13	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:16:03 - [57] - Quote That's great, but please also decrease jump fatigue slightly :/
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1273	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:16:36 - [58] - Quote wait what why are you doing the exact opposite of a jump drive nerf? fml why is everyone terrible
Scorpio DK FireStar Inc Evictus. 8	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:18:30 - [59] - Quote I guess most here will disagree and can flame me all they want I could care less but I feel these changes are a step backwards if the fatigue system is also reduced like most seem to want I can see a return to the old days where only massive blocks owned caps and smaller alliances never bothered to own or deploy caps cause they knew that hostiles could come from half way across the galaxy in 20 minutes to kill them if they even dared to undock entire thing seems like its a step back to the old days, I had high hopes for Novembers expansion back at start of summer now I am wondering why I should bother anymore, if i am honest the entire thing looks completely half finished if you are unsure on how to balance capitals properly just delete them from the game and refund the skill points instead of changing the rules from one extreme to the other every few years this is my personal view and should not be taken as a representation from my corp or alliance viewpoint
Zerzzes Markarian McCloud and Markarian Trade and Logistics Corp. 5	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:23:24 - [60] - Quote That's a good change. It doesn't change the force projection dramatically, but makes it much easier to travel through certain regions where you were so far limited to a few stationless mid points.

Gneeznow Ship spinners inc 186	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:26:54 - [61] - Quote Scorpio DK wrote: I guess most here will disagree and can flame me all they want I could care less but I feel these changes are a step backwards if the fatigue system is also reduced like most seem to want I can see a return to the old days where only massive blocks owned caps and smaller alliances never bothered to own or deploy caps cause they knew that hostiles could come from half way across the galaxy in 20 minutes to kill them if they even dared to undock entire thing seems like its a step back to the old days, I had high hopes for Novembers expansion back at start of summer now I am wondering why I should bother anymore, if i am honest the entire thing looks completely half finished if you are unsure on how to balance capitals properly just delete them from the game and refund the skill points instead of changing the rules from one extreme to the other every few years this is my personal view and should not be taken as a representation from my corp or alliance viewpoint This tbh. Down this road lies the old days of roaming blobs of capitals owning everything. As it stands a small increase to carriers and FAX jump range isn't a big deal but you know once CCP starts making changes like this they tend to snowball until things are out of control. It won't be too bad so long as CCP leaves jump fatigue alone and doesn't reduce it at all.
TuDDi Mindstar Technology Goonswarm Federation 5	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:30:43 - [62] - Quote Congrats on listening to your customers for 1st time in 13 years.
The Economist Logically Consistent 40	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:36:08 - [63] - Quote About damn time.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 7	Posted - 2016.10.11 13:42:40 - [64] - Quote - Some reduction in jump fatigue would be nice, doesnt have to be excessive. - Increasing JB range to match capitals would be nice too.
Oddsodz The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. 185	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:04:19 - [65] - Quote I Must say. I am not impressed. Why Blops when you Can Rorq?
Zappity Horde Vanguard. Pandemic Horde 3038	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:14:11 - [66] - Quote I think there should be a larger difference between caps and supers. Caps should be 8 and supercaps 6. I don't think 1LY is large enough to split the fleets in many situations. Please don't wait another TWO YEARS to tweak again. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Gremk The Red Island Foundation Shadow Cartel 38	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:20:53 - [67] - Quote Pretty reasonable change. As some have stated though, the multiple range issue is going to be somewhat of a PITA. You'll currently have Supers/Titans at 6LY Carriers/Dreads/Triage 7LY Blops 8LY JFs 10LY That's just a PITA to remember and plan for on the first two... imo it'd make far more sense to just keep them at a uniformed jump range (either 6 or 7). Also, as mentioned you certainly should look into reducing the fatigue to the point that a max LY jump is no more than a current max jump.
Dirk MacGirk Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 165	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:42:47 - [68] - Quote Would prefer to see 7.5 and 6 or even 8 and 7, but beggars can't be choosers. Please simplify jump fatigue. 1. 5 minute jump drive cool down after a single jump generates 30 minutes of max fatigue. 2. Any jump with any fatigue then results in in a 10-minute cool down and resets the 30 minute fatigue (multi-jump penalty) clock. Not to reopen the Phoebe debate, but the objective is to limit rapid force projection across vast ranges. The range limits, even at 7/6 light years, and fixed cool downs of 5-10 minutes will achieve that goal without the unnecessary variations of the current fatigue system. If it doesn't, then tweak the base numbers on cool down. But there is just no need for what we have now in terms of fatigue.
coolkay Herrscher der Zeit Test Alliance Please Ignore 23	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:44:52 - [69] - Quote dumm? arsch offen? das sind gerade meine gedanken wie so hat man es erst reduzier was soll der schei+ƒ... last es so wie es ist.... oh sry for german post
Sgt Ocker Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1148	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:51:50 - [70] - Quote Rola Lennt wrote: Edriahn wrote: Most importantly, Fattigue should be reduced a it, shouldn't it? Help us out here. your CSM got us this change and now you ask for more? talking about cant get enough. They got us 1LY and extra fatigue to match - Not much here to celebrate. Only a Foolish FC is going to jump in unsupported capitals (especially in the era of "batfone for anything and everything"). So, Titans got 1 LY - Subcaps can only bridge as far as a titan can move them - Subcaps are required for ANY fight worth attending - So, capital ships got a 1 LY range increase. Which interestingly enough works out, the average distance per jump will rise from 3.8 of 5LY to 4.5* of 7LY* including a titan for bridging subcaps. -- - -- - -- - -- - -- - -- Funny, when Devs decide something is too powerful and nerf it - It is done in great swathes of "kill it good". When it turns out they were actually wrong and decide to set things back on track - It is in such small increments as to not make much of a difference. Lets just hope the next "incremental increase" isn't light years* away My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1178	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:55:12 - [71] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Funny, when Devs decide something is too powerful and nerf it - It is done in great swathes of "kill it good". Ishtar would like to chat with you. Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Rob Dalvik Arxersize Industries 7	Posted - 2016.10.11 14:57:49 - [72] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: They got us 1LY and extra fatigue to match - Not much here to celebrate. Fatigue will be the same for a max jump as it is now.
Kate Onzo VooDoo Warriors Legion of xXDEATHXx 1	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:30:22 - [73] - Quote As i understand, Lenny's Keepstar network was planned knowing this change before official news
Larodil House Aratus Goonswarm Federation 15	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:32:52 - [74] - Quote It's been quite a while since I've wanted to give CCP praise.. Jump Fatigue still needs to be reworked, but the longer ranges, mean less days for downtime jumps. Also, EVERY SINGLE JUMP PLANNER PROGRAMMER just gave you guys the proverbial middle finger.. LOL
Easthir Ravin Easy Co. Get Off My Lawn 125	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:35:39 - [75] - Quote To little to late? Lets face it, Phoebe was one of the largest player evacuations since Incarna. It may look good on paper, and it may seem like your sticking it to "da'man", but in reality it did not bring people into the game and it crippled a large portion of the player base. Capitals should be massive / powerful / and the most technologically advanced ships on the field. Sub-cap gangs should fear them if they show up. (They should also get as many points on them as possible until reinforcements arrive.) Anything that takes away from that is just wrong. Also in a game that already absorbs time like a sponge, what developer or game designer in their right mind would even consider making it take longer. I realize this analogy may not fight exactly, however, imagine the outcry of tears we would hear if we told the miners of eve that because of the incredible bonuses that mining fleets get, CCP is going to double the base cycle time of all mining lasers and drones while simultaneously decreasing yield. It would suck. Well that would be the economic equivalent to Phoebe. IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES: -á" I drank WHAT?!"
Destoya Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 583	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:49:42 - [76] - Quote 80 minutes of fatigue, good lord
Romulus XII Syndicate Enterprise Northern Coalition. 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:53:14 - [77] - Quote About time . Thank you CCP! "Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate." Hahahaha this made my day. "Open up chokepoints and allow jump paths to be a little less predictable." This
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2733	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:53:52 - [78] - Quote I'm okay with this so long as the amount of jump fatigue you get continues to increase with range. Please do not lower fatigue at all. Yes, it is terrible gameplay waiting out a fatigue timer, but it's also terrible gameplay having to watch for hostile Supercaps 15 LY away before you undock a Dreadnought. At least the fatigue slows down the arrival from far away a decent bit. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
aldhura Perkone Caldari State 103	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:56:28 - [79] - Quote This still doesn't encourage industry and habitation of the far reaches of space as you can't haul\provide logistics in a carrier or dread.
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2733	Posted - 2016.10.11 15:56:38 - [80] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion. Goals Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate. Differentiate the power projection of Capitals and Super-Capitals. Allow alternative logistics and force projection paths into space that is currently very difficult to access. Open up chokepoints and allow jump paths to be a little less predictable. Changes All Capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreadnoughts) have their base jump range increased to 3.5 (+1) light years (7 (+2) light years max skills) All Super-Capitals (Supercarriers, Titans) have their base jump & bridge range increased to 3 (+0.5) light years (6 (+1) light years max skills) We hope this change will alleviate some of the problems capital pilots are currently facing. This is only an incremental change, as we said at Fanfest we believe that the capital force projection system needs further work. You could also just modify the map, as I have advocated for quite some time. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Emmy Mnemonic Svea Rike Circle-Of-Two 55	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:07:17 - [81] - Quote This is a good change. I fully endorse it! The timing of this descision however...and the strange causality-aspects of certain facts in the stageing meta recently, are....interesting. Or as George Orwell put it; -"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others". (i.e. I'm clearly not one of the "Orwellian pigs" in EVE-Online. But others obviously are! Q.E.D.) Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]
Soldarius O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore 1536	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:17:15 - [82] - Quote Please don't. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Ruby Gnollo 10	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:18:39 - [83] - Quote TuDDi wrote: Congrats on listening to your customers for 1st time in 13 years. You mean : the usual very small minority of their customers represented by the CSM
Hakeem Skywalker The Tarsis Shriners 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:22:07 - [84] - Quote So, basically this is a 1 LY increase to force projection? why bother that is not going to bring anyone back to the game.
Jenn aSide Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore 14812	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:23:11 - [85] - Quote Thank you space Jesus and/or Santa Claus.
Mostlyharmlesss GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 241	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:26:06 - [86] - Quote Jump Fatigue is still completely flawed at its core and this isn't going to change the vast majority of complaints surrounding it. This change needs to be released with changes to the Fatigue system as well. Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
The One TrueMorty The Dutch East India Company Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:48:11 - [87] - Quote There should be a distinguishing mechanic for 'offensive' and 'defensive' jumping, which should work like this: lowsec/sovless null = current fatigue timer + the proposed jump range changes + nothing to factor in being lowsec/sovless. Sov that your alliance owns = strategic ADM level factors in to reduce fatigue. This would fall into the defensive category. Sov that your alliance does not own (including blue sov of another alliance) = strategic ADM level factors in to increase fatigue. I don't know the first thing about coding a video game, but i do know that CCP is trying to nerf the ability for bigger alliances from jumping across the universe too easily, in an offensive manner... to give the little guy a chance. At the end of the day, it seems to me that it would balance out well. A smaller alliance could still potentially overthrow the sov of a larger alliance, even one with a helluva cap QRF. But if said smaller alliance just tries to blobbrawl their way through it, they probably wouldn't have succeeded anyways, buffed jumps for defending caps or no. Who knows, perhaps more caps will die and we might reverse the mineral price drop coming with 8bill a day one man rorq mining fleets :p
Crystalline Entity Outdated Host Productions Darwinism. 47	Posted - 2016.10.11 16:54:13 - [88] - Quote So just before NC deploy south in force (Winter) jump ranges will change.. Interdasting...
Grath Telkin Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 2834	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:02:47 - [89] - Quote Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming. Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 364	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:03:46 - [90] - Quote +1 for increased range for capships. But I'd rather leave supers with 5 ly max range. As of future changes, what do you think about rigs that increase jump range?

Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 364	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:22:49 - [91] - Quote Dirk MacGirk wrote: Please simplify jump fatigue. I too want fatigue increment to have a simple formula that makes sense. Make it 0.5EXP(Kx) where x is a jump distance in LY and K is a reduction factor (K=0.1 for indy, =0.25 for BLOPs, =1 for the rest).
Makeleth Riatu Solette I Want ISK Corp 52	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:25:39 - [92] - Quote I approve, but am also with the sizeable camp that jump fatigue needs some serious rework. Introduce a drug that reduces the amount of jump fatigue accrued at the expense of combat capabilities. Need a loan? Look at my thread! Mail me if you'd like some marketing advice or advice in general
Hakeem Skywalker The Tarsis Shriners 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:40:18 - [93] - Quote You know you have made a serious mistake when the general population of your game calls your feature "aids".
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18140	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:41:01 - [94] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: will blops be getting a boost in range to compensate? Compensate for what? "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Mike Azariah The Scope Gallente Federation 3563	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:43:27 - [95] - Quote Alea iacta est I find an interesting mix of complaints (low key) and thanks (also low key). This was asked for before to cut some of the jump range chokepoints. Does it fix that? It was not planned (and I doubt it ever will be) to set us back to pre phoebe, so lose those dreams. m Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯\|(pâä)/¯
Oddsodz The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. 187	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:47:38 - [96] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming. He should know. Please, DONT DO THIS
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18142	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:48:28 - [97] - Quote Hakeem Skywalker wrote: So, basically this is a 1 LY increase to force projection? why bother that is not going to bring anyone back to the game. Numbers can be misleading. Increasing a Dread's jumprange from 5 to 7 LY increases the volume of space it can jump within by a factor of 2.74. On average you can expect between 2-3x as many systems to be within range. That change also eliminates (or at least widens) a lot of chokepoints. make no mistake, this proposal is quite a significant capital mobility buff. Given that the original reasons for the power projection nerf are still very much in place - in fact I would say even more so than ever, given that there's now no plausible counterbalance to a combined N3/PL, I hope CCP monitor the stuation very, very closely. We absolutely do not need to return to anything like the dreadful, stagnant sov null situation of 2012-2014. And if anyone thinks that it wouldn't happen again if it became possible for it to happen again, I have some Arizona beachfront property they may also be interested in. "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming." Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 634	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:49:01 - [98] - Quote What do you all think would be the result of swapping the changes? That is, give the supers the longer distance. That would generate some edge cases where supers could be utilized but they'd be entirely without dread and FAX support. Could make for some interesting decisions by the attackers. (Of course, could entirely ruin the game - I'm just musing here.)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18142	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:51:36 - [99] - Quote Grath Telkin wrote: Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming. The amount of historical revisionism I've seen from some people on this subject is hilarious. The situation we have in 0.0 is a glorious wonderland of patchwork diversity and independent wars compared to the pre-Phoebe situation, but it seems that many people think that this new state of affairs is some God-ordained right, rather than a direct result of sharply projecting capital power projection. "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming." Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hendrink Collie Contra Ratio DARKNESS. 105	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:57:16 - [100] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Grath Telkin wrote: Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming. The amount of historical revisionism I've seen from some people on this subject is hilarious. The situation we have in 0.0 is a glorious wonderland of patchwork diversity and independent wars compared to the pre-Phoebe situation, but it seems that many people think that this new state of affairs is some God-ordained right, rather than a direct result of sharply projecting capital power projection. I tend to agree with you, though as long as fatigue isn't touched, the increase in range isn't going to change things THAT much, just make for a few less choke points. That being said, if they start really toning down the fatigue and/or go even further with range, we may start seeing the diversity that does exist vanish into A vs B again. Sure, while the fights were large and glorious during the glory days of dominion and pre-phoebe, people tend to forget the long periods of nothing that happened between those set piece battles. At least now there is SOME content going on almost all the time.

Lan Wang C.Q.B Snuffed Out 3554	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:57:54 - [101] - Quote Makeleth Riatu Solette wrote: I approve, but am also with the sizeable camp that jump fatigue needs some serious rework. Introduce a drug that reduces the amount of jump fatigue accrued at the expense of combat capabilities. That favours large gangs of caps even more than the small gangs Loyalist to Angel Cartel Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
The CloudyOne Arch Angels Assault Force IT'S ONLY PIXELS 2	Posted - 2016.10.11 17:58:36 - [102] - Quote vallenaa wrote: Literally the week i sell my Hel and melt my pilots brain because the current state of jump drives is a **** joke and has been for years. Thanks ccp but a little too late. :drama: Nobody cares.
MAS0RAKSH Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 15	Posted - 2016.10.11 18:01:40 - [103] - Quote the JFat timer is fine to prevent the problems of groups jumping from one end of the map to the other. the problem is some areas of space became inaccessible from low-sec. maybe add some newly explored areas in the empty space between regions that are currently connected by a a single jump lane or do the hard thing of moving regions a little closer to each other. http://i.imgur.com/bzy88xB.jpg defensive jumps... how about a mid slot propulsion upgrade that boosts jump range but disables launching of fighters/bombers/drones, turrets, missiles, and smartbombs for 60 minutes (can't be removed during the timer) -10% per level of jump drive calibration (which anyone in a cap should have) setting their defenseless state to 30 minutes total.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18144	Posted - 2016.10.11 18:05:37 - [104] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: What do you all think would be the result of swapping the changes? That is, give the supers the longer distance. That would generate some edge cases where supers could be utilized but they'd be entirely without dread and FAX support. Could make for some interesting decisions by the attackers. (Of course, could entirely ruin the game - I'm just musing here.) Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support. "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming." Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Slowdive Aideron Licence To Kill Mercenary Coalition 6	Posted - 2016.10.11 18:30:00 - [105] - Quote awesome!!!
Tosan Ijonen Alcoholocaust. Test Alliance Please Ignore 3	Posted - 2016.10.11 18:35:55 - [106] - Quote I like the changes so far. Not saying that everything will be wonderland-perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. Maybe give non-supercaps (and Blops) another 0.5LY max jumprange on top. I'd also like to see some tweaks to fatigue though. I'd suggest giving the non-supercaps some slight reduction in fatigue generation, maybe make it so that a carrier making a 7LY-jump generates the same fatigue as a super doing a 6LY-jump. I rather like the idea of supercaps being more sluggish in their projection across the map compared to normal caps. I think they are too powerful to allow otherwise. I'd also suggest capping the maximum fatigue at 24 hours. This way fatigue keeps people from just piling in on top of ongoing fights halfway across the map, while reducing the PITA that is moving somewhere, when time is not as much as a critical factor like with fights. It also keeps the 'reward' for far-sighted planing of where to stage your caps. And on a half-related account: I'd also suggest giving POS jump bridges a fatigue reduction. Disclaimer: I pulled all numbers in this post directly out of my rectum.
Curious Onlooker LE YOLO LE SWAG LE 9GAG YOLOSWAG SWAGGER CORP YOLO 20	Posted - 2016.10.11 18:55:25 - [107] - Quote Subscriber numbers are hurting. Quick, pander to PL and make it easier for them to interfere with small alliance conflicts anywhere in eve. That won't continue to drive people away. Honestly, this change is really disappointing to see, and I say that as a player with multiple cap ship pilots. This change does very little to make my life easier in game, while providing a dramatic increase in the danger of PL interference from further and further away. Keep jump ranges where they are now, this change benefits only a few select groups, for the rest of us, it stifles gameplay
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 364	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:05:50 - [108] - Quote MAS0RAKSH wrote: the problem is some areas of space became inaccessible from low-sec. I live in Stain which is un-accessible from lowsec, except for jump freighters. I dont see any problems with that. Geography is different throughout the galaxy, which make things interesting.
Cade Windstalker 571	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:38:52 - [109] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: Makeleth Riatu Solette wrote: I approve, but am also with the sizeable camp that jump fatigue needs some serious rework. Introduce a drug that reduces the amount of jump fatigue accrued at the expense of combat capabilities. That favours large gangs of caps even more than the small gangs This, as well as organizations that can afford to do things like have move-toons and combat toons or something of the sort. Unless CCP basically kluge something together so that the character can't leave the ship and can not fight in any meaningful way then all they'll have done is create something for people to find a way to abuse.
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 353	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:40:53 - [110] - Quote And so the cancer is out of remission!

Gugl1 Molou Risk Breakers Snuffed Out 13	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:41:22 - [111] - Quote It's probably been asked earlier, but has the repercussions of double jumping been fully appreciated? Imagine jumping a dread bomb 7 LY away, furthermore, you would like to get back from said dread bomb, but jumping back would give you ~5 hours fatigue. /gugl
Cade Windstalker 571	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:42:38 - [112] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Eli Stan wrote: What do you all think would be the result of swapping the changes? That is, give the supers the longer distance. That would generate some edge cases where supers could be utilized but they'd be entirely without dread and FAX support. Could make for some interesting decisions by the attackers. (Of course, could entirely ruin the game - I'm just musing here.) Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support. Yeah... I mean, there's some nuance missing. At least now we don't have combat refitting and the guns are huge so you don't just have a Titan that can swap from anti-cap to anti-Subcap on a whim. Also Fighters aren't complete sub-cap death after the last round to tweaks, which is good. That said, in an even-numbers fight, there is very little reason to have people in non-specialized subcaps over Capitals or Supercaps now.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 365	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:46:19 - [113] - Quote Gugl1 Molou wrote: It's probably been asked earlier, but has the repercussions of double jumping been fully appreciated? Imagine jumping a dread bomb 7 LY away, furthermore, you would like to get back from said dread bomb, but jumping back would give you ~5 hours fatigue. /gugl The bomb is supposed to explode, isnt it? ;-) Dont drop it that far if you cannot handle a return trip, what's the problem?
Olmeca Gold Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc. 8	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:47:21 - [114] - Quote While capital pilots rejoice with these news there are several downsides of this change regarding hotdrop/non-consensual PvP aspect of this game which I think will definitely get overlooked. 1) Alliances with too many capitals/capital alts will be able to secure/cover more space to make it %100 safe for nullsec ratting. For example, right now if you drop on a ratting ship in Delve you will get 15+ faxes, carriers, supers and titans on you, which are alt characters that these people have on stand by. Well at least we were able to target systems outside their range. Now there will not be such a system. Mind you there is no counter to this at all. If you drop your own supers the other side will just escalate. Then you need a super force that can beat the other side. Not only this is classic N+1, but it does not make sense asking the whaler to move a competent capital force just to kill a ratter ship every single time, even if the whaler had such a force, which she doesn't, because these forces are privy to big sov holding nullsec entities to begin with. I don't think these alliances are entitled to %100 safe ratting because they have a sheer capital force. If you want to have increased capital jump range, to balance this I would at least make Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors relevant again, giving it let's say a 20 seconds anchor timer, relevant tank to survive a little bit (lets say 10 seconds - around 50k ehp) vs carrier fighters and very importantly the ability to cancel ongoing cynoes. 2) Jumprange was one most important exclusive ability of BLOPS ships. Not the fatigue reduction, because you can always wait after a hotdrop. BLOPS ships are now relatively obsolete. Whalers will prefer dropping carriers on people's carriers or rattlesnakes. Why is this bad? Because it takes entry level to an advanced whaling group into carrier level skills, and BLOPS were meant to be the ships which drop behind enemy lines, snatch a target quickly, and get safe. Not carriers. ------- [Bitter whaler rant mode on] But these will be overlooked, because these alliances are organized to make their voice most heard and have the most influence on Eve policy and capital pilots outnumber BLOPS pilots. Our posts will get downvoted to hell and ignored as always because we (whalers) are a minority vs nullsec entities, and we are worse in metagaming (upvoting stuff, going for CSM, posting on reddit, making memes) since we prefer playing the game. [/Bitter whaler rant mode off]
Gugl1 Molou Risk Breakers Snuffed Out 13	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:50:49 - [115] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Gugl1 Molou wrote: It's probably been asked earlier, but has the repercussions of double jumping been fully appreciated? Imagine jumping a dread bomb 7 LY away, furthermore, you would like to get back from said dread bomb, but jumping back would give you ~5 hours fatigue. /gugl The bomb is supposed to explode, isnt it? ;-) Dont drop it that far if you cannot handle a return trip, what's the problem? Of course it'll be better to take the fatigue over dying, but I was hoping you'd see my point as taking the cyno back home would screw you over for 5 hours.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 365	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:53:35 - [116] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support. BTW, compared to the Age Before Fatigue, even dictors and HICs are not really needed anymore. That's why I'm against the increase of range for supers. For caps though, it looks fine.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 365	Posted - 2016.10.11 19:59:17 - [117] - Quote Gugl1 Molou wrote: Of course it'll be better to take the fatigue over dying, but I was hoping you'd see my point as taking the cyno back home would screw you over for 5 hours. And I was hoping you will read my message as "you are not obliged to jump to the maximum possible distance". DISCLAIMER: Joke incoming! You scored a kill today? Great, have a rest, let those supers rat in peace ;-)
Joe Barbarian I'm fine and You aren't Goonswarm Federation 0	Posted - 2016.10.11 20:32:58 - [118] - Quote Olmeca Gold wrote: While capital pilots rejoice with these news there are several downsides of this change regarding hotdrop/non-consensual PvP aspect of this game which I think will definitely get overlooked. 1) Alliances with too many capitals/capital alts will be able to secure/cover more space to make it %100 safe for nullsec ratting. For example, right now if you drop on a ratting ship in Delve you will get 15+ faxes, carriers, supers and titans on you, which are alt characters that these people have on stand by. Well at least we were able to target systems outside their range. Now there will not be such a system. Mind you there is no counter to this at all. If you drop your own supers the other side will just escalate. Then you need a super force that can beat the other side. Not only this is classic N+1, but it does not make sense asking the whaler to move a competent capital force just to kill a ratter ship every single time, even if the whaler had such a force, which she doesn't, because these forces are privy to big sov holding nullsec entities to begin with. I don't think these alliances are entitled to %100 safe ratting because they have a sheer capital force. If you want to have increased capital jump range, to balance this I would at least make Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors relevant again, giving it let's say a 20 seconds anchor timer, relevant tank to survive a little bit (lets say 10 seconds - around 50k ehp) vs carrier fighters and very importantly the ability to cancel ongoing cynoes. 2) Jumprange was one most important exclusive ability of BLOPS ships. Not the fatigue reduction, because you can always wait after a hotdrop. BLOPS ships are now relatively obsolete. Whalers will prefer dropping carriers on people's carriers or rattlesnakes. Why is this bad? Because it takes entry level to an advanced whaling group into carrier level skills, and BLOPS were meant to be the ships which drop behind enemy lines, snatch a target quickly, and get safe. Not carriers. ------- [Bitter whaler rant mode on] But these will be overlooked, because these alliances are organized to make their voice most heard and have the most influence on Eve policy and capital pilots outnumber BLOPS pilots. Our posts will get downvoted to hell and ignored as always because we (whalers) are a minority vs nullsec entities, and we are worse in metagaming (upvoting stuff, going for CSM, posting on reddit, making memes) since we prefer playing the game. [/Bitter whaler rant mode off] Every ratting carrier is a bait carrier. Stop biting we'll stop dropping. I'll +1 this change and wait for the next bout of jump changes that are sure to come.
AllMappedOut Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance 5	Posted - 2016.10.11 20:33:53 - [119] - Quote Such a lazy change. Instead of addressing the real issue (choke points, eg: Aridia), they have gone back on their reduction in Force Projection and given NCPL a huge boost to being a nomad alliance. Why is travelling across the map such an issue? I get that moving capitals is such a risky piece of behaviour because of choke points; there are so few places where you can move your cap to that it makes catching your super very easy. However, that's the issue - a move op for an alliance does not get dropped upon, so why buff ranges? The best solution would be to reroute some systems so that their range in LY is more in line with the change you wish to see, but that would be :effort:.
Langbaobao Tr0pa de elite. Northern Coalition. 96	Posted - 2016.10.11 21:06:34 - [120] - Quote A long awaited and clamored for change. Was hoping that the jump range would be increased to 7.5 ly for both supers and normal caps, which would have been IMO a good middle road between the old 10 ly and the current 5ly range. But I guess we'll live for now with 7 and 6 ly respectively, hoping that a new iteration will bump this to 7.5 for both classes once CCP convinces itself that the additional range is not an issue.

Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 366	Posted - 2016.10.11 21:18:31 - [121] - Quote AllMappedOut wrote: the real issue (choke points, eg: Aridia) Ah, those spooky -LSH- crabs! Did you know how Goons have moved their supercap fleet all the way from the North to the South through your Aridia and beyond, while hordes of PL/NC only managed to grab a single titan kill? Which was presumably reimbursed, because they used an exploit. Moving capitals now is safer than ever.
Lexx Devi Freeport . 7 1	Posted - 2016.10.11 21:21:44 - [122] - Quote That's scary, when taking in to account that this will bloom offensive actions. Good for content, 1 years of Manufacturing Citadels/Rorquals, Capital ships are going to outnumbering power blocks. Taking eve moto in to account i'm surprised Titans & Supers don't keep 5AU to keep it more predictable making counter intelligence a continuous meta, Risk to use yes but a power worth the usage. 7AU FAX, Carriers, Dreads, Yess it's going to help everyone, & this is the content eve needs at this age. Im suppriced Titans dont get to: Keep 5AU Jumprange. Gain 7 or 10 AU Bridging range. Again EvE MOTO: Risk and Reward. If a offensive strike get bridged to 7-10AU the titan will not be able to swoop in & save. It's a powerful bridge, but if the offencive goes wrong they need a safe hub or risk retreating where the risk comes in. CSM is doing a awesome. Still they are the most likely 1% elite & are still human looking what long term may favour them. There's always exceptions to, keep in mind nothing is Just Black & White.
Soleil Fournier Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture 159	Posted - 2016.10.11 21:22:59 - [123] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support. Yeah it totally blows that the average T1 cruiser can't instapop a supercap with its anti-capital doomsday On the other hand, supercaps die all the time subcap gangs, and also come with a lot of downsides that most subcap pilots underestimate. The 5LY jump range being one of those downsides was excessively constrictive and needed to change. CCP will not allow the old days of instant projection across New Eden to return (even capital pilots don't want that), so people can calm down now, this is simply a QOL change.
Grognard Commissar Splinter Cell Operations inPanic 14	Posted - 2016.10.11 21:30:56 - [124] - Quote Kenneth Feld wrote: As a member of a small alliance, i think there's changes are bad for the game. PL/NC need to have their jump range nerves not buffed. How am i supposed to rat in safety in my Nyx you mean erebus, right?
Olmeca Gold Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc. 9	Posted - 2016.10.11 22:09:33 - [125] - Quote Joe Barbarian wrote: Olmeca Gold wrote: While capital pilots rejoice with these news there are several downsides of this change regarding hotdrop/non-consensual PvP aspect of this game which I think will definitely get overlooked. 1) Alliances with too many capitals/capital alts will be able to secure/cover more space to make it %100 safe for nullsec ratting. For example, right now if you drop on a ratting ship in Delve you will get 15+ faxes, carriers, supers and titans on you, which are alt characters that these people have on stand by. Well at least we were able to target systems outside their range. Now there will not be such a system. Mind you there is no counter to this at all. If you drop your own supers the other side will just escalate. Then you need a super force that can beat the other side. Not only this is classic N+1, but it does not make sense asking the whaler to move a competent capital force just to kill a ratter ship every single time, even if the whaler had such a force, which she doesn't, because these forces are privy to big sov holding nullsec entities to begin with. I don't think these alliances are entitled to %100 safe ratting because they have a sheer capital force. If you want to have increased capital jump range, to balance this I would at least make Mobile Cynosural Inhibitors relevant again, giving it let's say a 20 seconds anchor timer, relevant tank to survive a little bit (lets say 10 seconds - around 50k ehp) vs carrier fighters and very importantly the ability to cancel ongoing cynoes. 2) Jumprange was one most important exclusive ability of BLOPS ships. Not the fatigue reduction, because you can always wait after a hotdrop. BLOPS ships are now relatively obsolete. Whalers will prefer dropping carriers on people's carriers or rattlesnakes. Why is this bad? Because it takes entry level to an advanced whaling group into carrier level skills, and BLOPS were meant to be the ships which drop behind enemy lines, snatch a target quickly, and get safe. Not carriers. ------- [Bitter whaler rant mode on] But these will be overlooked, because these alliances are organized to make their voice most heard and have the most influence on Eve policy and capital pilots outnumber BLOPS pilots. Our posts will get downvoted to hell and ignored as always because we (whalers) are a minority vs nullsec entities, and we are worse in metagaming (upvoting stuff, going for CSM, posting on reddit, making memes) since we prefer playing the game. [/Bitter whaler rant mode off] Every ratting carrier is a bait carrier. Stop biting we'll stop dropping. I'll +1 CCPs change and wait for the next bout of jump changes that are sure to come. Dont get cocky :). We still somehow kill much more than we lose in your space. But thats really how it should be. You get dank ticks you gotta pay the tax.
Beffah Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 43	Posted - 2016.10.11 22:13:24 - [126] - Quote I feel like this thread is thanking CCP for basically nothing. 1 LY difference, with the added fatigue... we're literally getting nothing. This isn't going to speed moving caps around up, or add to the inherent risk of moving a cap, or basically change anything from what it is right now. Now you'll just be cooling your heels in a station a few systems further down the line, with the additional fatigue that distance gave you.
Dabigredboat Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 51	Posted - 2016.10.11 22:32:38 - [127] - Quote Beffah wrote: I feel like this thread is thanking CCP for basically nothing. 1 LY difference, with the added fatigue... we're literally getting nothing. This isn't going to speed moving caps around up, or add to the inherent risk of moving a cap, or basically change anything from what it is right now. Now you'll just be cooling your heels in a station a few systems further down the line, with the additional fatigue that distance gave you. Now beffah, I understand that you can be easily confused on why having a low jump distance is important and why adding 1ly might not seem like much. But let me try to come down and explain why this is huge. If you have a look at dotlan jump ranges, going from 5 LY to 7 LY and from 5 LY to 6 LY means that a few really BAD choke-points can be completely ignored and helps the average capital pilot who does not have 100s of supers and titans on standby to assist get around gate-camps. Also regions like Fountain, which can take up to 4 jumps to cross right now can finally be reduced to 3 jumps or less depending on system choice. With you being in PL now, I can see where you would want MORE and MORE for your cap loving brothers, but the rest of us small guys in eve enjoy not having capitals shoved in our face whenever we go roaming around. I am extremely happy at the work CCPL is doing to try and bring about minor fixes without breaking the rule of "**** capitals going across eve or ruining small warfare in far off systems.'
Olmeca Gold Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc. 9	Posted - 2016.10.11 22:34:20 - [128] - Quote Beffah wrote: I feel like this thread is thanking CCP for basically nothing. 1 LY difference, with the added fatigue... we're literally getting nothing. This isn't going to speed moving caps around up, or add to the inherent risk of moving a cap, or basically change anything from what it is right now. Now you'll just be cooling your heels in a station a few systems further down the line, with the additional fatigue that distance gave you. I feel like the change was supposed to be for individual capital pilots or small forces to avoid chokepoints etc, rather than enabling major null entities like yours moving their capitals easier, which was agreed to be a problem anyway when fatigue was first introduced.
Olmeca Gold Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc. 9	Posted - 2016.10.11 22:38:25 - [129] - Quote Dabigredboat wrote: but the rest of us small guys in eve enjoy not having capitals shoved in our face whenever we go roaming around. Goons small now this just in :) If you really want that can you please tell your people stop dropping 10 titans each time we catch a ratting carrier in Delve?
Raz Keriz Blattodea TAPAKAH ALLIANCE 13	Posted - 2016.10.11 22:53:24 - [130] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion. Goals Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate. Differentiate the power projection of Capitals and Super-Capitals. Allow alternative logistics and force projection paths into space that is currently very difficult to access. Open up chokepoints and allow jump paths to be a little less predictable. Changes All Capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreadnoughts) have their base jump range increased to 3.5 (+1) light years (7 (+2) light years max skills) All Super-Capitals (Supercarriers, Titans) have their base jump & bridge range increased to 3 (+0.5) light years (6 (+1) light years max skills) We hope this change will alleviate some of the problems capital pilots are currently facing. This is only an incremental change, as we said at Fanfest we believe that the capital force projection system needs further work. Thx CCP Ncpl

Panther X High Flyers Northern Coalition. 109	Posted - 2016.10.11 23:38:03 - [131] - Quote Oh come on. Remove SOME Jump Aids. I don't mind having the reduced range from Phoebe. But the fatigue? FML. But thanks (I suppose) for giving back a wee bit of range. I'm not sure yet whether I agree or disagree with the different ranges by capital yet, but at least we got a little bit of that reacharound I had originally asked for. My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...
Dabigredboat Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 51	Posted - 2016.10.11 23:46:46 - [132] - Quote Olmeca Gold wrote: Dabigredboat wrote: but the rest of us small guys in eve enjoy not having capitals shoved in our face whenever we go roaming around. Goons small now this just in :) If you really want that can you please tell your people stop dropping 10 titans each time we catch a ratting carrier in Delve? Well you see those are just ratting titans. If we had really dropped some dudes to help them you would have seen more I think. I swear some people have no niceness.
Bailian Moxtain North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 28	Posted - 2016.10.12 00:02:52 - [133] - Quote This is a great step in the right direction. Im sure this has been posted in the thread already, but I'll post it anyways; https://blog.skyride.org/1ly-isnt-a-big-difference/. Range for supers and capitals should be the same. Its not like its going to break the game and the fatigue as you said wont be changed which slows down rapid movement. The best part about phoebe was same ranges for all combat capitals which made it easy to calculate routes. Wish fatigue also was changed to 60min for max jump as its still a pretty lame mechanic even though I totally understand why phoebe was necessary. Its still a little too harsh imo (being lazy and all). GJ for finally doing something about this spaceaids
StainLessStealRat Van Diemen's Demise Northern Coalition. 5	Posted - 2016.10.12 02:16:59 - [134] - Quote Thanks Dirk!!
Lelob Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 237	Posted - 2016.10.12 02:19:24 - [135] - Quote So...this doesn't solve the inherent "black hole" issue with caps that currently exists atm. It is still going to be very painful to move caps and punishes cap pilots for moving. Big alliances with big cap fleets like PL/NCDOT/GOONS/TEST are still effectively invulnerable, but instead of having a 5ly sphere of 0wn, we now have a 6/7 ly sphere of 0wn. Anyone coming into our sphere can expect to basically instantly die to a hotdrop, with virtually 0 fear of ever being counter-dropped. Anyone trying to move caps to pull off a gank like that effectively needs to have a big capital presence, is very tightnit (no spies) and a few days to setup. (There are very few groups in EVE that can do this) If I understand this correctly, it just makes the whole black hole issue even worse. Not that I personally really have any issues with that, being in PL, but I think long term it isn't good for the health of the game. It is just going to force more people out of nullsec/into renting alliances for fear of being stomped on. If one of the above groups comes into your area of nullsec, and you're relatively small by comparison, you really don't have a whole lot of options other then to either pay a ransom or just bail into npc/lowsec space. Also, that's some ****-tier trolling dbrb. edit: For those wondering, big alliances like PL effectively have a "black hole" effect in their immediate vicinity, in that anyone within capital range of them can expect to be wiped out, with there being very little/any recourse.
Elithiel en Gravonere KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2016.10.12 04:06:30 - [136] - Quote I don't think this change is at all necessary. I know it is probably changed by the CSM (who seem to do whatever it is PL tell them to do) because it then makes it easier for the former MBC alliances to come after us down in Delve (negating one of the main reasons why Goonswarm Federation chose the region as our new home as being hard to get at). Besides that reason for the change (which I disagree with as it favours certain roaming capital alliances like Pandemic Legion), the other main question is, do we really need to change it given the enormous number of capital fleet battles we're already seeing day upon day in Eve already? Is the system balanced enough? Yes, I think so, the market is making enough capitals and supers to keep up with losses sustained by alliances in these big cap fleet battles already. Introducing this change may see more battles but will upset that fine balance we already have between PVE and PvP. PVE goes up when an area is relatively 'safe' and goes down when an area is unsafe. As someone who splits their time about 50%/50% between the play styles, I find it nice for a change to have regions that cannot be easily dropped upon by a random enemy capital fleet, giving enough time to get into a pvp ship and out of that mining ship, ready for action. With the ability to mine or rat safely, you then are able to spend time building said capital ships 'safely' ready of the next big fight. You cannot do that if no area is in a safe from drop zone (the result of this change). Industrialists being less safe, means less capitals built. The less one can do that, the more likely you're just going to have to warp to station and stay docked up, when a big blue ball suddenly arrives on grid with no forewarning and you have no way of getting to your pvp fleet staging system. So I see the change as actually upsetting that fine balance and will result ultimately in less capital fights than we have now, not more.
Lelob Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 237	Posted - 2016.10.12 04:14:10 - [137] - Quote Elithiel en Gravonere wrote: I don't think this change is at all necessary. I know it is probably changed by the CSM (who seem to do whatever it is PL tell them to do) because it then makes it easier for the former MBC alliances to come after us down in Delve (negating one of the main reasons why Goonswarm Federation chose the region as our new home as being hard to get at). Besides that reason for the change (which I disagree with as it favours certain roaming capital alliances like Pandemic Legion), the other main question is, do we really need to change it given the enormous number of capital fleet battles we're already seeing day upon day in Eve already? Is the system balanced enough? Yes, I think so, the market is making enough capitals and supers to keep up with losses sustained by alliances in these big cap fleet battles already. Introducing this change may see more battles but will upset that fine balance we already have between PVE and PvP. PVE goes up when an area is relatively 'safe' and goes down when an area is unsafe. As someone who splits their time about 50%/50% between the play styles, I find it nice for a change to have regions that cannot be easily dropped upon by a random enemy capital fleet, giving enough time to get into a pvp ship and out of that mining ship, ready for action. With the ability to mine or rat safely, you then are able to spend time building said capital ships 'safely' ready of the next big fight. You cannot do that if no area is in a safe from drop zone (the result of this change). Industrialists being less safe, means less capitals built. The less one can do that, the more likely you're just going to have to warp to station and stay docked up, when a big blue ball suddenly arrives on grid with no forewarning and you have no way of getting to your pvp fleet staging system. So I see the change as actually upsetting that fine balance and will result ultimately in less capital fights than we have now, not more. tl;dr goons want to keep ratting in supers
Noga Taranogas Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 2	Posted - 2016.10.12 05:09:06 - [138] - Quote don't change a damn thing, but add a new thing. XL Jump Drive Augmenter for carriers, faux, titans, supers, dreads, freighters, blops that provides +3 LY jump range but polarizes their shield, armor, hull, fighters and bomber, and halves their weapons/effects/etc/warp speed/alignment... for 30 minutes. Allows you to move stuff further for logistics and staging, but with increased risk -discourages long range combat jumps.
Syri Taneka Un4seen Development Sev3rance 145	Posted - 2016.10.12 05:27:04 - [139] - Quote It's not the 13 I used to enjoy, but it's better than only 5.
Aphatasis Evoke. Ev0ke 14	Posted - 2016.10.12 05:31:52 - [140] - Quote Plz, think about making Jump Ranges for Caps and Super-Caps the same! I'll remember the time wenn there were half a dozen different renges and it was just annoying. Plz don't go back this path!

SeVenNight Deng Tai-Chi Northern Coalition. 23	Posted - 2016.10.12 06:01:27 - [141] - Quote you never see a supercap and tt blob without any Fax support right now, so for the most case, carrier and fax will still constraint in 6ly. We will like to see both super and normal carrier share the same ly, eg. 6.5ly. If you idea is to separate jump range to increase different escalation in fight, honestly it wont work for most of the time, since supers can just jump through a couple gates and standby. Maybe if you increase carrier jump range to 7.5ly, a larger range difference between super and carriers might have more temp for people to try though? I totally support MrHyde idea for getting rid of the jump fatigue and keep the reactivation timer for every jump (with longer timer), Please don't let us spend another two year waiting for the jump fatigue changes .
Ruby Gnollo 11	Posted - 2016.10.12 07:33:30 - [142] - Quote Elithiel en Gravonere wrote: I know it is probably changed by the CSM (who seem to do whatever it is PL tell them to do) Well, some players spent a lot of time and effort to convince CCP that the CSM was one of the worst perils for the game, but it seems that success is yet to come. But as far as I can remember, Goonswarm Federation as a whole has yet to find a stance on that subject (your leader's opinion looks clear, but your failed HM yet has to get a grasp on the situation)
GROUND XERO Rennfeuer Project.Mayhem. 7	Posted - 2016.10.12 07:35:57 - [143] - Quote Just to remind! Jump fatique mechanics and range decreasment were comming into the game because super blobbs were jumping through eve 3rd 4th .. 5th party on everything ! We don-¦t need these times back in here!!!! I see a lot of more engagements with subcaps so why changing this when the majority in here is not flying em (player base) ? To destroy their fights with the fast moving superblobb? To make sov even more irrelevant? Or will sovholder get buffs like further jump ranges and less fatique to represent their sov structure? We don-¦t need another buff of the super blobb!!!!!
Elithiel en Gravonere KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2016.10.12 07:55:13 - [144] - Quote Lelob wrote: Elithiel en Gravonere wrote: I don't think this change is at all necessary. I know it is probably changed by the CSM (who seem to do whatever it is PL tell them to do) because it then makes it easier for the former MBC alliances to come after us down in Delve (negating one of the main reasons why Goonswarm Federation chose the region as our new home as being hard to get at). Besides that reason for the change (which I disagree with as it favours certain roaming capital alliances like Pandemic Legion), the other main question is, do we really need to change it given the enormous number of capital fleet battles we're already seeing day upon day in Eve already? Is the system balanced enough? Yes, I think so, the market is making enough capitals and supers to keep up with losses sustained by alliances in these big cap fleet battles already. Introducing this change may see more battles but will upset that fine balance we already have between PVE and PvP. PVE goes up when an area is relatively 'safe' and goes down when an area is unsafe. As someone who splits their time about 50%/50% between the play styles, I find it nice for a change to have regions that cannot be easily dropped upon by a random enemy capital fleet, giving enough time to get into a pvp ship and out of that mining ship, ready for action. With the ability to mine or rat safely, you then are able to spend time building said capital ships 'safely' ready of the next big fight. You cannot do that if no area is in a safe from drop zone (the result of this change). Industrialists being less safe, means less capitals built. The less one can do that, the more likely you're just going to have to warp to station and stay docked up, when a big blue ball suddenly arrives on grid with no forewarning and you have no way of getting to your pvp fleet staging system. So I see the change as actually upsetting that fine balance and will result ultimately in less capital fights than we have now, not more. tl;dr goons want to keep ratting in supers Not really, its about keeping the balance right between the two activities (PVP and PVE). Make it too easy to move capital fleets around the universe and we'll just end up back in the stoneage. Want to come harass us more easily, use BLOPs and wormholes so that those classes of ships, serve a purpose (T3s, Recon, Black ops, stealth bombers, etc). Otherwise, why bother with such ships when you can just throw 80 titans + standard fleets around willy nilly?
Elithiel en Gravonere KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 4	Posted - 2016.10.12 08:05:37 - [145] - Quote Ruby Gnollo wrote: Elithiel en Gravonere wrote: I know it is probably changed by the CSM (who seem to do whatever it is PL tell them to do) Well, some players spent a lot of time and effort to convince CCP that the CSM was one of the worst perils for the game, but it seems that success is yet to come. But as far as I can remember, Goonswarm Federation as a whole has yet to find a stance on that subject (your leader's opinion looks clear, but your failed HM yet has to get a grasp on the situation) I think we've just resigned ourselves to the fact that we'll always be hated (Band of Brothers until now, not much has changed) and the minute we get good at a particular thing, tactic, strategy or otherwise, that will either get nerfed or Pandemic Legion will do their best to whinge to the CSM and in turn, change the goalposts. So in the end, we just adjust to the new situation and figure out a new innovation or invention to play our own game. We are very clear on where we stand on the matter. We said that the metagame using gambling sites was bad for the game. We got ignored, we said that the CSM was bad for the game, we got ignored. We said a whole bunch of stuff, we got ignored. Now knowing that, this is the standard response to anything Goon, we simply have given up trying in that direction and instead, we just adapt. So number one is we just have to adjust with each random and out of the blue goalpost move.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 18150	Posted - 2016.10.12 08:40:13 - [146] - Quote Beffah wrote: I feel like this thread is thanking CCP for basically nothing. 1 LY difference, with the added fatigue... we're literally getting nothing. This isn't going to speed moving caps around up, or add to the inherent risk of moving a cap, or basically change anything from what it is right now. Now you'll just be cooling your heels in a station a few systems further down the line, with the additional fatigue that distance gave you. That's not what "literally" means. "Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming." Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jerghul Running with Dogs Stella Nova 8	Posted - 2016.10.12 08:42:34 - [147] - Quote Literally actually does mean figuratively too these days. Webster updated definition in 2014. " We have been doing a lot of challenging old assumptions of late, and often with delightful results. Just because something is doesn't mean it should be..." -Team Game Of Drones (Dec 2015)
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 370	Posted - 2016.10.12 15:30:02 - [148] - Quote Aphatasis wrote: Plz, think about making Jump Ranges for Caps and Super-Caps the same! I'll remember the time wenn there were half a dozen different renges and it was just annoying. Plz don't go back this path! No. Please do keep the ranges different. I remember the time when I had to open dotlan and figure out jump routs and it was fun. (It's still is.)
Ruby Gnollo 11	Posted - 2016.10.12 18:21:01 - [149] - Quote Elithiel en Gravonere wrote: We are very clear on where we stand on the matter. We said that the metagame using gambling sites was bad for the game. We got ignored, we said that the CSM was bad for the game, we got ignored. We said a whole bunch of stuff, we got ignored. Now knowing that, this is the standard response to anything Goon, we simply have given up trying in that direction and instead, we just adapt. So number one is we just have to adjust with each random and out of the blue goalpost move. I'm really happy to hear that your 16.000 members will now play Eve Online with us instead of roleplaying in the CSM. New Eden is far nicer than RL.
Keko Khaan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 134	Posted - 2016.10.12 19:06:01 - [150] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion. Thanks CCP and CSM. This annoucement makes me happy. I might even resub more of my accounts.

Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 732	Posted - 2016.10.12 19:23:30 - [151] - Quote Be aware that jump fatigue and reduction in jump range has revitalised small scale PvP. Way back it was unthinkable to use a capital in PvP without the real chance of being dropped by 100+ Archons. Ignore the whiners and don't take eve back to the bad old days. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Olmeca Gold Pleonexium Sustainable Whaling Inc. 10	Posted - 2016.10.12 22:46:59 - [152] - Quote Elithiel en Gravonere wrote: Not really, its about keeping the balance right between the two activities (PVP and PVE). Make it too easy to move capital fleets around the universe and we'll just end up back in the stoneage. Want to come harass us more easily, use BLOPs and wormholes so that those classes of ships, serve a purpose (T3s, Recon, Black ops, stealth bombers, etc). Otherwise, why bother with such ships when you can just throw 80 titans + standard fleets around willy nilly? Lol you drop 10 titans vs any blops fleet that dares to drop on one of your carriers so it doesn't make sense for you to call people do wh roams and blopsing in your space. I actually went and checked last time you lost ratting carriers and it is October 1st the last time we (Bombers Bar) went to your space. So while I'm not saying its impossible I think it takes more expertise than it needs to be taking to kill your ratting carriers without capitals, and that kind of expertise only belongs to a few groups in game. CCP should at least make mobile cyno inhibs relevant again since even you are not entitled to %100 safe ratting just because you have your supercap alts and you carry cynoes on your carriers. But from the perspective of the blops groups you were talking about, the changes even increase your capability because they will give you more territory to be able to counterdrop your titans from their staging, so we end up defending the status quo.
Sgt Ocker Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1155	Posted - 2016.10.13 02:44:27 - [153] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Aphatasis wrote: Plz, think about making Jump Ranges for Caps and Super-Caps the same! I'll remember the time wenn there were half a dozen different renges and it was just annoying. Plz don't go back this path! No. Please do keep the ranges different. I remember the time when I had to open dotlan and figure out jump routes and it was fun. (It still is.) SeVenNight Deng wrote: you never see a supercap and tt blob without any Fax support right now, so for the most case, carrier and fax will still constraint in 6ly. We will like to see both super and normal carrier share the same ly, eg. 6.5ly. You might have forgotten about it, but people also use FAXes and Dreads to support/escalate on a normal sub-capital fight. Very true - Faxes, Dreads and Carriers are used to compliment subcap fleets - Which can only be bridged as far as a Titan can jump, IE; 6LY. The usable increase in range for fleets going into combat coming in November is - 1LY - the extra 1LY afforded Faxe's Dread's & Carrier's, will only be useful when your staging or moving to a new location for any reason. It nearly gives back suitcase carriers (faxes and dreads). Leave your current nulsec corp for greener pastures, it will now only take you a week to get your stuff out, instead of a week and a half. I suppose that is no longer relevant, with Devs designing everything to be stagnant, I mean static; The ability to move from place to place to fight someone will be completely removed once pos's are taken out of the game, so may as well get used to a static lifestyle. It is a shame Devs can't see how much better Eve could be, if only you could get around it to find and fight targets. I don't mean just a quick raid through a WH, I mean staging forces in enemy territory and going to war - Unfortunately with the way Citadels work (or more so, don't for this), the large groups will just get larger and PL/NC can keep renting out nulsec to those they see as worthy. Eve - Working as intended My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
GROUND XERO Rennfeuer Project.Mayhem. 7	Posted - 2016.10.13 06:02:57 - [154] - Quote Of course the more active guys in here are those who are holding Supers etc. But again we don-¦t need any kind of buff of the super blobb.... - it is harming sub cap fights.... - and power projection of sov will be more decreased ( unless you buff sov mechanics to give sov holder faster moving caps, supers to project their infrastructure through the sov! like more range and less fatique!) WE DON`T NEED THE SUPER BLOBB! :_) esp. not when the are moving faster!
Morrigan LeSante Black Omega Security Circle-Of-Two 1548	Posted - 2016.10.13 09:42:41 - [155] - Quote Cade Windstalker wrote: Malcanis wrote: Eli Stan wrote: What do you all think would be the result of swapping the changes? That is, give the supers the longer distance. That would generate some edge cases where supers could be utilized but they'd be entirely without dread and FAX support. Could make for some interesting decisions by the attackers. (Of course, could entirely ruin the game - I'm just musing here.) Since CCP have thoughtfully reintroduced tracking Titans and anti-subcap DDs, and also made fighters total helldeath against subcaps, Supercaps are now strictly superior to standard caps. They don't need cap support. In large numbers, they barely need subcap support. Yeah... I mean, there's some nuance missing. At least now we don't have combat refitting and the guns are huge so you don't just have a Titan that can swap from anti-cap to anti-Subcap on a whim. Also Fighters aren't complete sub-cap death after the last round to tweaks, which is good. That said, in an even-numbers fight, there is very little reason to have people in non-specialized subcaps over Capitals or Supercaps now. Malcanis is right, in sufficiently large numbers they're pretty much only stoppable by a larger super force. A carrier is not subcap death after the changes, but a supercarrier very much is. An aeon can happily sit at 24 million EHP and still project 5800 DPS to a subcap, all of which applies better than a high angled dread. Apex force is still very much a thing, we may not have perma tanking until downtime, but the need to do so also is not really there because supers can haze subcaps so hard without an iota of subcap support being required. The gap between a capital and a super these days isn't far away from an ibis vs a tengu.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 376	Posted - 2016.10.13 09:48:26 - [156] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: You might have forgotten about it, but people also use FAXes and Dreads to support/escalate on a normal sub-capital fight. Very true - Faxes, Dreads and Carriers are used to compliment subcap fleets - Which can only be bridged as far as a Titan can jump, IE; 6LY. The usable increase in range for fleets going into combat coming in November is - 1LY - the extra 1LY afforded Faxe's Dread's & Carrier's, will only be useful when your staging or moving to a new location for any reason. Holy crap! Dude! Sub capital fleet can fly by gates. Surprised?
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2742	Posted - 2016.10.13 10:14:18 - [157] - Quote To me, the real problem with jump fatigue is on long moving operations. It takes painfully long and there are long periods of waiting in between. Sometimes there are horrible chokepoints, but there is a more elegant solution for that. Leave the range at 5 LY. Adjust the map if you want to give people more real options. As I look at these new ranges, I see that the Drones Region is still effectively isolated, while other areas are now slightly more accessible. Why? You need to open up that farmers' paradise. It needs some shorter access points and NPC space. For Capitals, I'd suggest raising the red bar to 20 minutes per jump and removing the blue bar completely. Once you jump into a system, you are only getting out quickly via gate. If you are trying to third party a fight 15 LY away, it's going to take you an hour to get there without taking gates. You can still make it to B-R, but it becomes more painful to go superblob some random dudes having a small capital fight on the other side of the map. If you are a small group on a large moving operation, you can cover 15 LY/ hour, instead of 5 LY/hour. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Sgt Ocker Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1155	Posted - 2016.10.13 14:10:28 - [158] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: You might have forgotten about it, but people also use FAXes and Dreads to support/escalate on a normal sub-capital fight. Very true - Faxes, Dreads and Carriers are used to compliment subcap fleets - Which can only be bridged as far as a Titan can jump, IE; 6LY. The usable increase in range for fleets going into combat coming in November is - 1LY - the extra 1LY afforded Faxe's Dread's & Carrier's, will only be useful when your staging or moving to a new location for any reason. Holy crap! Dude! Sub capital fleet can fly by gates. Surprised? LOL, of course they "can" but then that gives away a lot of strategy and tactics - Why do you think groups use cynos and jump in with blops and use titan bridges in the first place. (hint; it's not because they are lazy) "Go by gates" - So simple it makes me think, you've never been out of highsec. 10 jumps via gates, 15 minutes? 1 jump through a titan bridge, 15 seconds? Which is the best option for joining a fight? Just because something can be done the obvious way, doesn't mean it is the most practical or strategic. I'd even go for Titan bridging to be extended to the same range (7LY) as other capitals but keep the one LY less jump range. Getting supers to a fight should require a little more planning, where as getting subcaps there should be as fast and efficient as getting Dreads and Carriers in place. Capital ships were balanced to require subcap support - That support shouldn't be limited, it should be encouraged - To encourage fights. If capitals can't jump in until subcaps get there, many opportunities for a fight will not be met. "They can go by gates" is a simplistic response to a complex problem. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 377	Posted - 2016.10.13 14:48:57 - [159] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: "Go by gates" - So simple it makes me think, you've never been out of highsec. 10 jumps via gates, 15 minutes? 1 jump through a titan bridge, 15 seconds? Which is the best option for joining a fight? Yes, I have been out of hisec. Yes, I have been sitting on a Titan for 3 hours straight. Sgt Ocker wrote: I'd even go for Titan bridging to be extended to the same range (7LY) as other capitals but keep the one LY less jump range. Getting supers to a fight should require a little more planning, where as getting subcaps there should be as fast and efficient as getting Dreads and Carriers in place. And while sitting on a Titan for hours I was a part of a support fleet that was covering Dreads and Carriers (and supers for that matter) that were grinding sov or RFing towers. No, I dont want it back. If you're doing stratop - get your support in first, then drop caps. Not the other way round. On the other hand, if you're doing a roam or some other subcap thingy - you should be able to escalate it. But you shouldnt be able to super-escalate at a whim. Super are strategic assets and must require more planning - at least we agree at this.
Sgt Ocker Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1155	Posted - 2016.10.13 15:26:00 - [160] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: "Go by gates" - So simple it makes me think, you've never been out of highsec. 10 jumps via gates, 15 minutes? 1 jump through a titan bridge, 15 seconds? Which is the best option for joining a fight? Yes, I have been out of hisec. Yes, I have been sitting on a Titan for 3 hours straight. Sgt Ocker wrote: I'd even go for Titan bridging to be extended to the same range (7LY) as other capitals but keep the one LY less jump range. Getting supers to a fight should require a little more planning, where as getting subcaps there should be as fast and efficient as getting Dreads and Carriers in place. And while sitting on a Titan for hours I was a part of a support fleet that was covering Dreads and Carriers (and supers for that matter) that were grinding sov or RFing towers. No, I dont want it back. If you're doing stratop - get your support in first, then drop caps. Not the other way round. On the other hand, if you're doing a roam or some other subcap thingy - you should be able to escalate it. But you shouldnt be able to super-escalate at a whim. Super are strategic assets and must require more planning - at least we agree at this. Not everyone lives in boring sec space (nul) - Some of us live in lowsec, where being able to respond quickly and strategically counts. If someone is hitting a pos you own or a Citadel that is not in your home system, the 10 or 15 minutes it takes to gate it with subs can mean, no fight at all. Just a reinforce timer. Yes sometimes escalating a subcap roam by dropping caps can be an option, other times you want your caps and subcaps to arrive together - 3rd partying, super tackled and many other reasons where tactics and strategy count. Even when contesting a Citadel or a simple pos bash, you often don't want subcaps gating it there - You really don't want to advertise the fact - Your on your way to a fight. Different play styles in different locations, call for different strategies and tactics. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Caleb Seremshur Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two 866	Posted - 2016.10.16 06:18:08 - [161] - Quote Keko Khaan wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion. Thanks CCP and CSM. This annoucement makes me happy. I might even resub more of my accounts. Imho this is the right direction making EVE playable again Yaaaay more alts in a game struggling for new players..
El 1974 Green Visstick High 153	Posted - 2016.10.18 22:32:13 - [162] - Quote This is a change intended to fix a problem that was created on purpose. That purpose is still there. The current system works. I don't see why it needs change. Also changes to jump range can significantly reduce jump fatigue as it enables the use of shorter routes. On a route that's longer than your current max where you can use different way-points you can expect about 10%-30% less jump fatigue. In exceptional cases the difference will be even larger.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 384	Posted - 2016.10.20 16:07:21 - [163] - Quote @CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates? Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins.
Caleb Seremshur Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two 867	Posted - 2016.10.23 11:07:23 - [164] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: @CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates? Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins. Locking out supers might be a thing worth talking about. Letting them take gates was a bizarre decision in the first place.
Skia Aumer Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 394	Posted - 2016.11.08 07:59:37 - [165] - Quote I like how discussion ceased after my proposal. Means everyone agrees and as there are no objections whatsoever. Hopefully CCP will lock the gates for capships by Christmas.
Kaelke Hashshashin Inc. Spectre Fleet Alliance 3	Posted - 2016.11.12 08:01:08 - [166] - Quote You know what they say about assumptions, right? I for one am against locking capitals out from using gates.
Sgt Ocker Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1205	Posted - 2016.11.12 14:06:05 - [167] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: I like how discussion ceased after my proposal. Means everyone agrees and as there are no objections whatsoever. Hopefully CCP will lock the gates for capships by Christmas. Or nobody liked your suggestion and so left the thread. I enjoy game play that involves catching capitals "gating it" - Especially the ones who do it without scouts Without the ability to use gates, the extra 1 or 2LY (depending on what you own) only creates new choke points, in different places. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
AzTrackGuy Repubblica Indipendente di Genova EVIAN NATION 0	Posted - 2016.11.14 04:56:05 - [168] - Quote what about the damn rorqual? is it STILL going to be limited to just 5ly moving industry at only 5ly at a time is such a pain it would be a complete travesty having this complete re-work of the rorqual & still only able to jump 5ly's "If you put forth the effort to succeed... you will"
Andrew Indy Jedran Space Services 165	Posted - 2016.11.14 07:42:17 - [169] - Quote AzTrackGuy wrote: what about the damn rorqual? is it STILL going to be limited to just 5ly moving industry at only 5ly at a time is such a pain it would be a complete travesty having this complete re-work of the rorqual & still only able to jump 5ly's If the Rorq thread is anything to go by the Rorq gets its range doubled with these changes. used to be 2.5ly. So yes they are increasing it. Base jump drive range: 5ly (+2.5) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=494896&find=unread
Kenneth Feld Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 412	Posted - 2016.11.14 16:49:22 - [170] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: I like how discussion ceased after my proposal. Means everyone agrees and as there are no objections whatsoever. Hopefully CCP will lock the gates for capships by Christmas. Yeah, your idea was so bizarre, no one ever though you were actually serious

NIJofleyUK Instant Annihilation Simple Farmers 17	Posted - 2016.11.14 22:14:07 - [171] - Quote Kaelke wrote: You know what they say about assumptions, right? I for one am against locking capitals out from using gates. That's all well and good until you realise some regions cannot be traversed unless using gates or backtracking 3 other regions to go the distance of 2 gates. You're obviously not a capital pilot. Instant Annihilation :: > Join channel IAPUB for more information! (Recruiting)
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition 3135	Posted - 2016.11.15 00:29:05 - [172] - Quote AzTrackGuy wrote: what about the damn rorqual? is it STILL going to be limited to just 5ly moving industry at only 5ly at a time is such a pain it would be a complete travesty having this complete re-work of the rorqual & still only able to jump 5ly's Check the Rorqual thread. It's up to ten.
Ruddger Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem 13	Posted - 2016.11.15 21:27:37 - [173] - Quote CCP reversing one of the only good changes they've made in recent years...... not shocked at all..
Ruddger Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem 13	Posted - 2016.11.15 21:33:37 - [174] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: "Go by gates" - So simple it makes me think, you've never been out of highsec. 10 jumps via gates, 15 minutes? 1 jump through a titan bridge, 15 seconds? Which is the best option for joining a fight? Yes, I have been out of hisec. Yes, I have been sitting on a Titan for 3 hours straight. Sgt Ocker wrote: I'd even go for Titan bridging to be extended to the same range (7LY) as other capitals but keep the one LY less jump range. Getting supers to a fight should require a little more planning, where as getting subcaps there should be as fast and efficient as getting Dreads and Carriers in place. And while sitting on a Titan for hours I was a part of a support fleet that was covering Dreads and Carriers (and supers for that matter) that were grinding sov or RFing towers. No, I dont want it back. If you're doing stratop - get your support in first, then drop caps. Not the other way round. On the other hand, if you're doing a roam or some other subcap thingy - you should be able to escalate it. But you shouldnt be able to super-escalate at a whim. Super are strategic assets and must require more planning - at least we agree at this. Not everyone lives in boring sec space (nul) - Some of us live in lowsec, where being able to respond quickly and strategically counts. If someone is hitting a pos you own or a Citadel that is not in your home system, the 10 or 15 minutes it takes to gate it with subs can mean, no fight at all. Just a reinforce timer. Yes sometimes escalating a subcap roam by dropping caps can be an option, other times you want your caps and subcaps to arrive together - 3rd partying, super tackled and many other reasons where tactics and strategy count. Even when contesting a Citadel or a simple pos bash, you often don't want subcaps gating it there - You really don't want to advertise the fact - Your on your way to a fight. Different play styles in different locations, call for different strategies and tactics. I live in null and could move my a bs fleet to low sec or 10 others regions via gates in less than 15 minutes. Why do you think you should be able to easily defend structures that are apparently regions away from your home? That should be by design.... A lot of us small corps liked the cap changes. Made small gang pvp a real thing again when you didn't have to worry about being hot dropped from half of new eden....
Bailian Moxtain North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 28	Posted - 2016.11.18 05:09:52 - [175] - Quote 80min fatigue is pretty bad gameplay. Can we please have it reduced to 60 atleast even though that too isnt much better (read the ideas of higher jump reactivation timer and remove fatigue as a whole).
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2767	Posted - 2016.11.19 18:33:49 - [176] - Quote CCP, thank you again for a great change. It's been a serious quality of life improvement. PS - please do not increase jump ranges any further or lower fatigue any more. I think you have the balance point just about perfect. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Sgt Ocker Caldari Provisions Caldari State 1244	Posted - 2016.11.19 23:35:33 - [177] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: CCP, thank you again for a great change. It's been a serious quality of life improvement. PS - please do not increase jump ranges any further or lower fatigue any more. I think you have the balance point just about perfect. Fatigue could do with a slight reduction. The added range is not much use when all you do is wait longer before doing anything else. All it really does is make long slow trips easier due to less choke points. Jump in, fight, dock up or tether to wait out fatigue - Adds no risk, just time. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Orca Platypus Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 97	Posted - 2016.11.23 21:23:38 - [178] - Quote Another CCPL buff. That's why I never sub for more than one month anymore. Why is it always like this? Why must CCP take one badly needed change and implement its complete opposite? Guess dev corruption will eat all good Phoebe has given us one day, sad, unsubbing.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3533	Posted - 2017.01.19 19:04:05 - [179] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: @CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates? Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins. i agree with this capitals no longer really need to take gates. This greatly increases their range (particularly along region lines) BLOPS Hauler
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1291	Posted - 2017.01.20 08:34:06 - [180] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: @CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates? Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins. i agree with this capitals no longer really need to take gates. This greatly increases their range (particularly along region lines) Using gates also increases their vulnerability - ESPECIALLY along region lines. Why would anyone suggest removing the chance for potential targets? My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Lugh Crow-Slave 3546	Posted - 2017.01.20 10:37:18 - [181] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: @CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates? Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins. i agree with this capitals no longer really need to take gates. This greatly increases their range (particularly along region lines) Using gates also increases their vulnerability - ESPECIALLY along region lines. Why would anyone suggest removing the chance for potential targets? maybe on small group level but when doing ops with the alliance my capital pilot is in not really we generally can see 5 jumps away as a minimum and only have to go through that one gate. before the range change yeah it could be a bit scary when we needed to go through 2-3 gates but you don't need to do that anymore, not for range and not for fatigue BLOPS Hauler
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1291	Posted - 2017.01.23 02:26:48 - [182] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Sgt Ocker wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: @CCP Larrikin If you increase jump range and get rid of choke points - do you think it should come in one package with locking capships from using gates? Cynojammers were a thing back then. Fights for subcapital superiority were real and meaningful. Now that you dont need subcaps neither to put down a jammer, nor even to tackle supers - what is the role of subcap fleet in the meta? Just drop the caps, and who drops the bigger blob wins. i agree with this capitals no longer really need to take gates. This greatly increases their range (particularly along region lines) Using gates also increases their vulnerability - ESPECIALLY along region lines. Why would anyone suggest removing the chance for potential targets? maybe on small group level but when doing ops with the alliance my capital pilot is in not really we generally can see 5 jumps away as a minimum and only have to go through that one gate. before the range change yeah it could be a bit scary when we needed to go through 2-3 gates but you don't need to do that anymore, not for range and not for fatigue Fair enough but not all space is the same. About a week ago we managed to bubble 20 dreads and carriers as they jumped through a gate - Less than half of them got out. It was pure chance, we had gone to nul for a timer and came across these guys on the way home. That is the sort of game play we would lose completely if capitals were to have the ability to use gates removed. Yes it may be a rare thing but when it happens is a lot of fun (and content that would otherwise not be there). -- - -- - -- My mains 2 top value kills for this year - an Aeon caught jumping a gate in lowsec, and an Erebus caught aligning to a gate that for some reason got an aggression timer and died on the undock of the Astrahus he was using as a mid point. -- - -- - -- - -- Ratting carriers get caught daily using gates to get to lvl 5 missions. More content that would go away if capitals lose the ability to use gates. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3551	Posted - 2017.01.24 06:41:55 - [183] - Quote more of that content may go away but others would grow as the threat of capitals from a region over showing up would be lowered same as when fatigue was first added. The original idea behind fatigue was to make capital local assets gates work against that. when the jump range was lower it wasn't as much of an issue but the current one can reach most systems in a single region and using a region gate doubles that range. BLOPS Hauler
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1291	Posted - 2017.01.24 08:42:04 - [184] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: more of that content may go away but others would grow as the threat of capitals from a region over showing up would be lowered same as when fatigue was first added. The original idea behind fatigue was to make capital local assets gates work against that. when the jump range was lower it wasn't as much of an issue but the current one can reach most systems in a single region and using a region gate doubles that range. Yes - And where exactly is the problem here? Sorry you already answered that didn't you - The group my capital pilot belongs to - Is risk averse. You want safe sov, I understand that and removing gate access for capitals would ensure you that "again". But should the rest of Eve suffer because you want safer sov? I wonder if it would be at all possible to guard your region gates and turn them into areas of content - If as you say, they are a threat because they can allow enemies to enter your region (not by jumping but by using a gate). Isn't there a thing called bubbles that can be placed around a gate to stop intruders long enough for the defenders to engage them? Oh and if you want a bit more of an advantage, put cloaky eyes on the other side of the gate. That way you know exactly when and how big a force is using that gate to get a supposed advantage over you. Bottom line Lugh Eve isn't about "safe", it is about using available mechanics to your advantage. Asking Devs to remove a mechanic because you believe it makes it easy for someone to invade you - Is saying, we the risk averse want CCP to protect us from everyone who may not like us. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3559	Posted - 2017.01.25 04:22:07 - [185] - Quote m8 my capital pilot has nothing to worry about its my low sec main who has been enjoying the lack of large block capital fleets since fatigue was added. it's not about 'safe' when capitals get large ranges and fatigue penalties are reduced smaller groups just can't even put battleships on field in enjambments that have nothing to do with the large blocks. one of the great things about the changes is now smaller groups can fight each other using capitals pushing this even further would be a good thing BLOPS Hauler
Sgt Ocker What Corp is it 1291	Posted - 2017.01.25 22:31:31 - [186] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: m8 my capital pilot has nothing to worry about its my low sec main who has been enjoying the lack of large block capital fleets since fatigue was added. it's not about 'safe' when capitals get large ranges and fatigue penalties are reduced smaller groups just can't even put battleships on field in engagements that have nothing to do with the large blocks. one of the great things about the changes is now smaller groups can fight each other using capitals pushing this even further would be a good thing Seriously, your group isn't taking advantage of the nulsec access for lowsec groups? You aren't joining any of the lowsec fights where TIDI turns a 15 minute encounter into a 5 or 6 hour marathon? You haven't seen any of the action where 200 or 300 battleships with capital support from each side face off over a timer? Or a fight where each side batfones larger entities, often turning what could be a fun fight into a blueball event? I've primarily lived in lowsec for the last 4 years and have never had so much content - We don't always win but even losing can be fun when it is a GF and yes we on the odd occasion have block groups turn up. Sometimes fighting with us, more often against. I don't know which lowsec group you belong to but if they aren't enjoying the extra content since jump ranges were increased - they aren't trying. If your battleship fleet can't take on the capitals alone (and you can't field your own), I'd suggest reaching out to other groups and 3rd partying or even finding a group (or 2) you can set temp blue for content - Your BS's will find the going easier if they aren't trying to fight alone. Also, 1 or 2 Faxes can increase your BS fleets chances of victory. My main belongs to an alliance of just over 1,000 that lives in lowsec, the added content since the changes, is very welcome. NB; When exactly were fatigue penalties reduced? Quote: Q: How is Jump Fatigue changing? A: Its not. If you jump 7LY in a Carrier, you will get 80m Jump Fatigue, and 8m Jump Reactivation Timer. 2LY extra jump range (with JDC 5) is not "huge", it just breaks up the many killer choke points the previous 5 ly inflicted on capital pilots. Quote: All Capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreadnoughts) have their base jump range increased to 3.5 (+1) light years (7 (+2) light years max skills) Lugh - There are many alternatives available - Calling for nerfs should be at the very bottom of your list. My opinions are mine. If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Frostys Virpio Caldari Provisions Caldari State 3073	Posted - 2017.02.03 16:26:45 - [187] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: NB; When exactly were fatigue penalties reduced? It's indirect but for a long enough total trip, you could save one or more jumps thus reducing the total fatigue. Of course, since we see people SD/suicide their cap assets to buy elsewhere, it might not have much effect.
Tessa Sage Legion of the Wicked Way Advent of Fate 4	Posted - 2017.04.29 20:52:12 - [188] - Quote This is tremendous and timely. Even the best supercap operators conveying support over the last few pages - hopefully it sparks further debate and controversy. And for those burgeoning capitalistas who have finally completed calibration 5, I commend you for relying on fewer lowsec stargates -augments in navigation are always exciting when they coincide with extant hangar utility. Zealously, I must ask the Devs and greater gameplay community if further change is warranted. Put simply, most elements in EVE's UI are click and drag to any perceivable lower and upper limit (window sizing, PI extractor placement, etc.). If we can "unlock" the jump drive feature to simply let pilots define with a few mouse clicks exactly how many light years out and milli-AUs above a discrete point in space (be it numerical coordinates, proximity to a friendly ship in space or other shared bookmark) they intend to hop, and presto the hull goes orange. Certain recurring points of interest would be available through a scrollable menu or mere hotkey config. The other consideration, capitals have to reach 'warp appropriate' velocities (hyperspatial rigs and warp accel modules make the difference here) before their jump drive is ready, with a correlative capacitor use during the initial alignment. This opens the door to fleet command 'Jump Wing'. No particular desto alignment unless you already have eyes; last-minute tweaking of orientation with respect to adjacent ships in the intended drop to best tactical approximate. Pre-jump velocity, if carried out properly, unleashes new insta warp at grid load potential, with various capitals angled optimally for system stargates, stations to bubble, etc. As this is a hypothetical adjustment, which mechanisms currently in-game would reinforce or discourage this technique? And all in all, thank you CCP and community for taking further capital changes into consideration these last several months.


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