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Vehemently against walking around in stations!

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JeanPierre Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.26 17:27:00 - [91] Quote: You keep going on about dancing, fancy linking to where CCP have stated that they will definatly be putting "dancing" in? It's either that or..well...standing around and walking. Which contributes to immersion...how? I never got Earth & Beyond either. Kind of walking around...and...? ...make stuff I guess. That was something. Otherwise, lacking FPS pvp, or announced functions that require station walking...still not getting it. I'm also not sure why people are getting so bent out of shape and taking this personally. It's a simple question. I'm on the fence, honestly. In real life I also tend to look for reasons instead of just accepting fluff for fluff's sake. Whatcanyado? ------------------------------ Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well?
JeanPierre Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.26 17:30:00 - [92] Originally by: Vadimik Edited by: Vadimik on 26/03/2007 17:22:45 Originally by: Hana Brenecki Edited by: Hana Brenecki on 26/03/2007 11:25:12 Walking in stations is not 'fluff'. Even in the most basic possible form, it will completely change the way people play EVE. It will actually have far more gameplay impact than fixing the drones or corporate interface, or any number of other bugs and balance issues... QFT Walking in stations is all about RP. If your don't get what's the point of RP... well... Play on and enjoy whatever "subscribed for", but claim not that WIS (and thus RP) has nothing to do with eve, since it's a MMOPRG after all. For me WIS is one thing I really want to see. Because without ever seeing my character "in flash" I get slowly intoxicated by metagaming. I mean it. When all I see is numbers, numbers, and some pew-pew on top of that, it's just too easy to forget that it's your avatar inside that ship, and perceive it from afar. And that is one sure way to start thinking in meta-game terms. So roleplay comes from not emoting/dancing (basic WoW stuff), but rather, walking around or taking a conveyor (or whatever) in station...? Every game, almost, has this FPS thing going on (well, 3D walking about). I rather thought EVE unique in that they were different than the rest. Oh well, it's on its way as has been announced. I'll keep my opinions to myself then. ------------------------------ Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well?
Cloora APEX Unlimited	Posted - 2007.03.26 17:37:00 - [93] Originally by: JeanPierre So you're saying you need to dance the funky chicken and jump up and down in real time 3D in order to role play? Again, not criticizing (or approving), just curious, that's all. That is pretty rude to assume that. If you don't share our playstyle and understand it then please don't criticize. But RPers are the ones that DON'T dance. I play EVERY MMO I do play in an RP guild/corp so this I know. MxO had GREAT RP due to the large amount of emotes available and the conflicting storyline. DDO has sub-par RP due to lack of emotes and no conflict in any over arching storyling. We are tyring to make it work though since there are a TON of RPers there being that it is DnD. EVE has great RP due to the full conflict and politics and such. But we are lacking walking avatars with emotes. Don't knock RP just because that isn't your playstyle. ======================================== Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW!
Saskia Elko Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.03.26 17:40:00 - [94] Originally by: JeanPierre Quote: You keep going on about dancing, fancy linking to where CCP have stated that they will definatly be putting "dancing" in? It's either that or..well...standing around and walking. Which contributes to immersion...how? I never got Earth & Beyond either. Kind of walking around...and...? ...make stuff I guess. That was something. Otherwise, lacking FPS pvp, or announced functions that require station walking...still not getting it. I'm also not sure why people are getting so bent out of shape and taking this personally. It's a simple question. I'm on the fence, honestly. In real life I also tend to look for reasons instead of just accepting fluff for fluff's sake. Whatcanyado? Apparently, that's all you will be able to do in the first patch. Quote: The first release will have limited functionality and is expected as a more of a socializing forum than a place for brutally strangling your rival corp members or tossing handgrenades into a crowd of newbies, although both would be rewarding experiences for many players ( not the ones being strangled or blown up, though ). After all, Eve is a *roleplaying* game. Some players enjoy roleplay by shooting stuff, some enjoy it by forming relationships with other players. Obviously CCP see a benefit to adding station walking to the roleplaying element to the game. snip -please do not use that. -Kaemonn Originally by: Dianabolic That's what I'm saying, yes. If you fly with people that make you look bad, guess what? You look bad.
JeanPierre Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.26 17:46:00 - [95] Quote: Obviously CCP see a benefit to adding station walking to the roleplaying element to the game. Well sure. Free beta testing in a large environment for a 3D avatar engine, and sucking away some more from the WoW/Everquest base. If it's that, then I get it. lol Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world. In any event, just asking. You guys have fun with it. ------------------------------ Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well?
Saskia Elko Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.03.26 17:57:00 - [96] Originally by: JeanPierre Quote: Obviously CCP see a benefit to adding station walking to the roleplaying element to the game. Well sure. Free beta testing in a large environment for a 3D avatar engine, and sucking away some more from the WoW/Everquest base. If it's that, then I get it. lol Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world. In any event, just asking. You guys have fun with it. So why do you play a roleplaying game if you dont understand roleplay? snip -please do not use that. -Kaemonn Originally by: Dianabolic That's what I'm saying, yes. If you fly with people that make you look bad, guess what? You look bad.
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:00:00 - [97] Originally by: Na'Thuul Personally I'd like to get a count of how many times CCP needs to tell the players that bugfixing and gamedesign are two entirely different tasks, done by completely different people with completely different skills. Fine then do game design... on features centric to the game as it is. There are lots of possible new features that can be put in and have time spent on them then a silly feature that is nothing more than eye candy. Isnt it time you learned how to fight back?
JeanPierre Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:03:00 - [98] Originally by: Saskia Elko Originally by: JeanPierre Quote: Obviously CCP see a benefit to adding station walking to the roleplaying element to the game. Well sure. Free beta testing in a large environment for a 3D avatar engine, and sucking away some more from the WoW/Everquest base. If it's that, then I get it. lol Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world. In any event, just asking. You guys have fun with it. So why do you play a roleplaying game if you dont understand roleplay? Actually, I do understand it. I know that visuals are not necessary to do it. Why do you belabor the point when I've already stated go with it if it's for you? Why do you feel the need to be vindicated in your opinion? It's your opinion, if it works for you, great. Because I don't need flash bang visuals to obtain the same sense of roleplay doesn't mean I don't understand roleplay. Now unless you have a point to make other than being angry with me or flaming me, I think the discussion is essentially over. I've obtained the information I was looking for, no need to make it into a fight. Thanks. ------------------------------ Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well?
WiseMan Ari Caldari Uninvited Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:08:00 - [99] Edited by: WiseMan Ari on 26/03/2007 18:04:46 I'm not against walking in stations, but i just see it fit into eve. Just walking in the station without the pvp isn't EVE. To me it doesn't make sense to be able to have talks with your enemies without beeing able to use a gun/fist/knife/etc, or even laying traps and stuff, back stabbing corp mates and all that stuff. Need a good lore explanation atleast if we're to walk in stations without pvp. Can't see it working to say that if you're killed outside your pod your clone woun't activate since that's pretty much what noob alts are used for. Support the NSPDP National Society For the Protection of Discriminated Pirates
Kaalen Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:22:00 - [100] I've said this time and again when this topic comes up on the forums, Walking in Stations is being developed entirely for CCPs World of Darkenss MMO. CCP just chose to develop the engine for EVE first so that we would feel like we were getting something out of the 'developer time' spent on the other MMO. It's been stated that no time that would be spent fixing bugs or balancing the game would instead be used on walking in stations, it's more of a bonus than anything else. Something that we are getting as CCP would have to develop it anyway, I'd rather we got something out of this new MMO than nothing at all. It doesn't really add anything important to the game, but I welcome any 'free' new features. But yes, there is a lot that they still need to fix.
Sainrith Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:24:00 - [101] Originally by: JeanPierre Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world. Aesthetics aren't necessary, but they're nice and they give the place a unique flavor and design. By your logic, EVE could be done without graphics at all and be a regular text based MUD. Which, for some people, wouldn't bother them a bit. But there are those that actually enjoy SEEING a spaceship firing missles than seeing it just written out in text. In a similar vein, there are those who don't need anything but pen and paper to roleplay, but there are then those who actually enjoy SEEING the character and the ship and the controversy. And giving the pilots more life helps them to enjoy those aspects that much more. You're essentially trying to ask why people want double fudge mega-choco-crunch ice cream when there's plain old chocolate. For some people, regular old chocolate isn't enough. ----
JeanPierre Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:28:00 - [102] Originally by: Sainrith Originally by: JeanPierre Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world. Aesthetics aren't necessary, but they're nice and they give the place a unique flavor and design. By your logic, EVE could be done without graphics at all and be a regular text based MUD. No, my logic was that she was claiming that because I didn't see the point of essentially functionless 3D walking, that meant I didn't understand roleplay. My statement was a correction of her false claim against me. Quote: You're essentially trying to ask why people want double fudge mega-choco-crunch ice cream when there's plain old chocolate. For some people, regular old chocolate isn't enough. Um, no. I was asking what functionality, as in game benefit, this would bring. That was all. It caused quite a ruckus apparently. Honestly, it would be nice if people didn't take every statement as some kind of life and death challenge to their e-peen. It was just a question. In any event, hope you can see my clarification above as it was intended to be read, since it's clear you probably misunderstood the context of my statement. Hope the day goes well. ------------------------------ Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well?
JeanPierre Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:29:00 - [103] Originally by: Kaalen I've said this time and again when this topic comes up on the forums, Walking in Stations is being developed entirely for CCPs World of Darkenss MMO. CCP just chose to develop the engine for EVE first so that we would feel like we were getting something out of the 'developer time' spent on the other MMO. It's been stated that no time that would be spent fixing bugs or balancing the game would instead be used on walking in stations, it's more of a bonus than anything else. Something that we are getting as CCP would have to develop it anyway, I'd rather we got something out of this new MMO than nothing at all. It doesn't really add anything important to the game, but I welcome any 'free' new features. But yes, there is a lot that they still need to fix. That sums it up nicely and was what I was looking for. Thanks! ------------------------------ Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well?
Sainrith Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:48:00 - [104] Quote: Um, no. I was asking what functionality, as in game benefit, this would bring. That was all. It caused quite a ruckus apparently. Honestly, it would be nice if people didn't take every statement as some kind of life and death challenge to their e-peen. It was just a question. In any event, hope you can see my clarification above as it was intended to be read, since it's clear you probably misunderstood the context of my statement. Hope the day goes well. Uhh, yeah, you're also making assertions(sp?) about what people put behind their posts. I'm just trying to help you out here. You're asking functionality questions about aesthetics. That's the problem. There's no contribution towards functionality regarding graphics or looks. It's just to enhance the flavor of the game. The flavor of a game, however, is important to alot of people. ----
Ironnight Caldari x13	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:53:00 - [105] /Signed I much rather see CCP have all able bodies crunch down on the bugs for a week, just take the time to try and make it right, then maybe take another week to document the game, that would be nice. Originally by: kieron Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer Originally by: t20 Posted on 02.07.07 The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP
Par'Gellen Gallente Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.03.26 18:54:00 - [106] Arguing that different departments do different things and can't be expected to do each others' jobs is irrelevant. In fact it doesn't even address the issue at all. If you have bugs that aren't being fixed and new features going in constantly then you obviously have an imbalance in your priorities. It all boils down to money. Here's the hypothetical breakdown. Big Bucket Of Money = $100 New Content Designers Budget = $95 Beer Budget = $4.95 Bug Fixers Budget= $0.05 Why is this stuff not "slap you in the face set you on fire" obvious? --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:14:00 - [107] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 26/03/2007 11:58:50 There is NO problem with eVe. Indisputably NOT signed! CCP is hiring 100 staffs and walking in stations is not going to break EvE. WIS programmers would be programming WIS and core programmers would be fixing bugs. Any software company that is worth a salt would know how to manage their resources. Leave CCP and EvE alone. They last thing they need is players teaching them how to program EvE. If you do not like eVe, you can leave the game and give me your stuffs in 2008. I know I would be enjoying eVe for another year. Goodbye if you are leaving. You would not miss WIS but the rest of us, paying customers would like to experience WIS in eVe. /me training pugilism level 5. Mrs. Spitfire I think I must disagree with you. The problem in this case isnt that they are introducing yet another useless feature (i.e. will have no impact on Eve space which is what the game is about) but that is pushing other much talked about features such as having planet colonies and planetary flight. Frankly, I could give a flip about what they do with stations as long as it wasnt pushing other content back. Buas devs have stated that it is pushing content back, I have extreme problems with this. Further, I dont believe their promises of adding more content to the walking in stations once its done. I am willing to bet, (though I acknowledge I could be wrong here) that once its in and they have a working engine to model they will revert to only working on their other MMO. If you want to look at their track record of so called "promised" features, Id bet that youd be willing to find a long list of things that should have been added to game along time ago, but were not due to political reasons in the company.
NumberFour	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:15:00 - [108] Originally by: Par'Gellen Arguing that different departments do different things and can't be expected to do each others' jobs is irrelevant. In fact it doesn't even address the issue at all. If you have bugs that aren't being fixed and new features going in constantly then you obviously have an imbalance in your priorities. It all boils down to money. Here's the hypothetical breakdown. Big Bucket Of Money = $100 New Content Designers Budget = $95 Beer Budget = $4.95 Bug Fixers Budget= $0.05 Why is this stuff not "slap you in the face set you on fire" obvious? Somebody doesn't know what it is like to be a software designer or project manamger. It's called diminishing returns. Ten times the number of people working on a problem doesn't mean ten times the results, or anything close. It can often create more problems. The Devs have produced a great product so far and are about ready to make it even more amazing. I, for one, can't wait.
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:15:00 - [109] Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Different people work on different things. Because we add in more content doesn¦t mean we wont have people working on other things like fixing bugs. It does mean however that the content that was in development by the ambulation team before ambulation is now effectively getting no love. This is the real gripe.
Blind Man Kemono. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:18:00 - [110] what a bunch of confused ungrateful people
Par'Gellen Gallente Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:20:00 - [111] Originally by: NumberFour Originally by: Par'Gellen Arguing that different departments do different things and can't be expected to do each others' jobs is irrelevant. In fact it doesn't even address the issue at all. If you have bugs that aren't being fixed and new features going in constantly then you obviously have an imbalance in your priorities. It all boils down to money. Here's the hypothetical breakdown. Big Bucket Of Money = $100 New Content Designers Budget = $95 Beer Budget = $4.95 Bug Fixers Budget= $0.05 Why is this stuff not "slap you in the face set you on fire" obvious? Somebody doesn't know what it is like to be a software designer or project manamger. It's called diminishing returns. Ten times the number of people working on a problem doesn't mean ten times the results, or anything close. It can often create more problems. The Devs have produced a great product so far and are about ready to make it even more amazing. I, for one, can't wait. Sir, I've been doing this probably longer than you've been alive. I know exactly how it works. --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
JeanPierre Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Makhai	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:21:00 - [112] Originally by: Sainrith Quote: Um, no. I was asking what functionality, as in game benefit, this would bring. That was all. It caused quite a ruckus apparently. Honestly, it would be nice if people didn't take every statement as some kind of life and death challenge to their e-peen. It was just a question. In any event, hope you can see my clarification above as it was intended to be read, since it's clear you probably misunderstood the context of my statement. Hope the day goes well. Uhh, yeah, you're also making assertions(sp?) about what people put behind their posts. I'm just trying to help you out here. You're asking functionality questions about aesthetics. That's the problem. There's no contribution towards functionality regarding graphics or looks. It's just to enhance the flavor of the game. The flavor of a game, however, is important to alot of people. If that's your take, that's your take. You've misunderstood me, but being the internet, I know we all have to be right no matter what. Hope your day goes well, peace. ------------------------------ Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well?
Ben Musso	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:33:00 - [113] Originally by: Par'Gellen Sir, I've been doing this probably longer than you've been alive. I know exactly how it works. In that case ( after 14 years I suppose ) you still have not figured out that new features to software takes considerably less time then hunting down a bug. So much for knowing how it works. And that's just FYI: I have been in software developement/management a bit longer then you ( more then twice ) but I still do not consider that a right or reason to place critic where it doesn't belong. Unless you have full insight to either process management or code ... just shut your trap. If you want a job with CCP just apply ... don't try to make yourself look better on the forums then you really are.
Par'Gellen Gallente Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:36:00 - [114] Originally by: Ben Musso Originally by: Par'Gellen Sir, I've been doing this probably longer than you've been alive. I know exactly how it works. In that case ( after 14 years I suppose ) you still have not figured out that new features to software takes considerably less time then hunting down a bug. So much for knowing how it works. And that's just FYI: I have been in software developement/management a bit longer then you ( more then twice ) but I still do not consider that a right or reason to place critic where it doesn't belong. Unless you have full insight to either process management or code ... just shut your trap. If you want a job with CCP just apply ... don't try to make yourself look better on the forums then you really are. Some people never learn... --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
NumberFour	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:37:00 - [115] Edited by: NumberFour on 26/03/2007 19:33:48 Originally by: Par'Gellen Sir, I've been doing this probably longer than you've been alive. I know exactly how it works. Really, How old am I? What has my experience been? I will cut the the chase of "I've done this longer than you have" and say that, I think the Devs are doing a often thankless job. They bust their behinds on producing something that is one of the best products out there, overall. They try to bring new and inovative ideas to the project, with, at times, stunning results. And they try to balance new ideas with existing content corretions and modifications, which can be a delicate balance at times. I trust their judgement, so far they have done well. There are problems here and there, but that can be expected. And by the way, it is their company. They can do what they want with it. But I think they are on track, considering the recent merger with White Wolf. This experience will pay dividends for those projects.
Par'Gellen Gallente Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:40:00 - [116] Heh you guys can defend your stance against bugfixing being the TOP priority for good software development all you want. It doesn't make it any less insane. --- CCP : Save my mousewheel!
Isyel Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:49:00 - [117] All you whiners just crawl in your holes already and shut up. I want my walking in stations, even if i'll only be able to get drunk with corpies in the pub. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.03.26 19:52:00 - [118] Originally by: Banana Torres Edited by: Banana Torres on 26/03/2007 10:36:32 Well, if walking in stations is not added then EvE will cease to exist. Its as simple as that. The world of MMOs is changing and CCP have to adapt to those changes. And the biggest change happening just now is that customers are demanding a "Virtual World" environment. Which in EvE's case means walking in stations. Without it EvE will be a very unappealing prospect to new customers and so will wither. The hard core PvPers can just ignore walking in stations. But without it, your game will die. WOW, quite a claim, where is the data on that one. Interesting since CCP and EVE had busted award after award and record after record WITHOUT ambulation
Asimov Andies Gallente Red Blade Industries	Posted - 2007.03.26 20:01:00 - [119] Originally by: Par'Gellen Originally by: Na'Thuul Originally by: Par'Gellen Personally I wish they'd work on the bugs rather than wasting time on things like this but I have to say I'm curious about it. Personally I'd like to get a count of how many times CCP needs to tell the players that bugfixing and gamedesign are two entirely different tasks, done by completely different people with completely different skills. A bughunter will probably not be a good content designer, a content designer will probably not be a very good bugfixer, and Oveur would probably not be a very good submarine captain. Hehe they can say it all they want. As someone that has worked in the industry for 14 years I can tell you without a doubt that if you want to do complicated software correctly you DO NOT add things on top of buggy code without fixing it first. It's a no-brainer. I've heard CCP say what you said a million times and every time I have to shake my head in disappointment that such a great company doesn't understand such a basic fundamental of software development. Sorry stoped reading the topic after this for it needed a quote for stupidity. I will only say a few words about this quote Windows and all code has bugs so you are saying new content should ever be developed. **** even a mac and linux and hell even unix has bugs. thank you that is all. back to reading the topic -=#=- Angry beer bottles make Kaemonn a sad panda NO It's Been Touched
Cleonius BoBo Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.03.26 20:04:00 - [120] Edited by: Cleonius on 26/03/2007 20:02:03 Originally by: Par'Gellen Heh you guys can defend your stance against bugfixing being the TOP priority for good software development all you want. It doesn't make it any less insane. Being in software development, I can tell you I think you're mostly wrong. Unless you're in a critical business, once the big bad bugs have been squished, it's much more important to increase the customer base than it is to make a bug free software. Basically, once put, people are reluctant to migrate to another product : if the bugs are more annoying than critical, you can be fairly sure your customers aren't going away fast. Even a competitor would have to be much more competitive than you to snatch your customer base quickly (ok, it will happen... but slowly). It's much more efficient to develop new features to bring new customers, and capitalize on the human lazyness about changing everything. Sure, there's always the odd guy that will switch side as soon as it is efficient to do so. But experience proves it's quite a small minority. Your mileage may vary, as always.

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