Originally by: Rells

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The path that CCP is going down is frankly disturbing to me. There are so many things in the game that could be improved and so many features having to do with the space side of eve that I think its frankly daft to consider putting in something so superficial and silly as walking around in stations. I cant possibly think of what that will add to the climate of Eve or enhance the player kingdoms.

Instead of blowing developer time doing this stuff, why doesn't CCP work on some of the many thousands of bugs in the game. They could actually fix the corp interface which has been broken for three years. They could implement real territoral control where kingdoms could form rather than having no defensible borders to speak of. They could spend time fixing the thousands of bugs and strengthen the servers. They could finally put in fleet formations and improve the fleet interfaces to account for managed ewar and other advanced pvp tactics. They could fix the dozens of bugs with POS deployments and introduce even more abilities to pvp.

Sometimes I read the in-development section and wonder what drugs the devs are taking. I for one would much rather they focus on things that are centric to the game rather that sillyness.

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Originally by: Rodj Blake

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Walking in stations will only be worthwhile if it has new content to go with it

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Personally I wish they'd work on the bugs rather than wasting time on things like this but I have to say I'm curious about it.

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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and Oveur would probably not be a very good submarine captain.

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Umm Oveur was a submarine Captain in the royal Icelandic navy for 12 years before working for CCP.

just so you know ;)


bang on for the rest though ;)

Originally by: Kassidus

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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and Oveur would probably not be a very good submarine captain.

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Umm Oveur was a submarine Captain in the royal Icelandic navy for 12 years before becoming working for CCP.

just so you know ;)

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Are you pulling our leg?

Originally by: vanderi

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Originally by: Kassidus

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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and Oveur would probably not be a very good submarine captain.

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Umm Oveur was a submarine Captain in the royal Icelandic navy for 12 years before becoming working for CCP.

just so you know ;)

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Are you pulling our leg?

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---

:::Need to be cleaned:::

Fixed it. Happy?

Quite . -HornFrog

Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Personally I wish they'd work on the bugs rather than wasting time on things like this but I have to say I'm curious about it.

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Personally I'd like to get a count of how many times CCP needs to tell the players that bugfixing and gamedesign are two entirely different tasks, done by completely different people with completely different skills.

A bughunter will probably not be a good content designer, a content designer will probably not be a very good bugfixer, and Oveur would probably not be a very good submarine captain.

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Yes he is.

Fir of all, as Iceland is not a monarchy, it has no Royal Navy
Secondly, Oveur is british, and as such would not be in it even if there was one

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Originally by: Rells

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Sometimes I read the in-development section and wonder what drugs the devs are taking. I for one would much rather they focus on things that are centric to the game rather that sillyness.

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Originally by: James Snowscoran

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As far as I know, Iceland has no navy, air force or armed forces whatsoever.

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Originally by: Banana Torres

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Edited by: Banana Torres on 26/03/2007 10:36:32
Well, if walking in stations is not added then EvE will cease to exist. Its as simple as that. The world of MMOs is changing and CCP have to adapt to those changes.

And the biggest change happening just now is that customers are demanding a "Virtual World" environment. Which in EvE's case means walking in stations. Without it EvE will be a very unappealing prospect to new customers and so will wither.

The hard core PvPers can just ignore walking in stations. But without it, your game will die.

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Originally by: Helison

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OMG, please get real! Eve Online was never a game for the masses and it will never be one. And the real point is that CCP is quite successful with this. I¦m pretty sure that most current players of Eve won¦t use the feature "walking in stations" much, as it isn¦t the game, which they subscribed for.

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Quote:

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And without Walking In Stations, EVE will simply not survive. There will be no EVE. Simple at that. If you don't like Walking In Stations, you don't have to use it, but it HAS to exist for the game's survival

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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As someone that has worked in the industry for 14 years.....

Quote:

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You should know that the old "fix one bug, introduce two new bugs" thing is never more true than in a complex piece of software such as eve. If they put all development on hold until ALL the bugs were fixed we would still be on the Castor client just now!!!

Originally by: Dammar

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Only part that bugs me is only Windows Vista users being able to 'station walk'. Pretty certain there is no reason for this limitation other than maybe recieving some reach around from microsoft. Pretty lame action from the only MMO company that offers 'free' expansions...I think i'd rather pay for expansions than have to upgrade my OS just because of some stupid buisness arrangment.

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Quote:

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Thou shall pew pew.

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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Different people work on different things.

Because we add in more content doesn¦t mean we wont have people working on other things like fixing bugs.

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Originally by: Esurnir

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Originally by: Dammar

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Only part that bugs me is only Windows Vista users being able to 'station walk'. Pretty certain there is no reason for this limitation other than maybe recieving some reach around from microsoft. Pretty lame action from the only MMO company that offers 'free' expansions...I think i'd rather pay for expansions than have to upgrade my OS just because of some stupid buisness arrangment.

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It was said elsewhere that it has been an error. The footage has been dx9 and there has been no plan at all to make the station content dx10 only. And I find more eye candee stuff in eve quite fun myself.

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Originally by: Rodj Blake

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Walking in stations will only be worthwhile if it has new content to go with it

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Originally by: Spaceman Jack

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Originally by: Rodj Blake

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Walking in stations will only be worthwhile if it has new content to go with it

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Thats the problem i think some have with it, how integral can something be if it is a completely optional part of the game?

Even with ambulation you have no need to take part in it if you dont want to.. woohoooo!

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Quote:

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Thou shall pew pew.

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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Different people work on different things.

Because we add in more content doesn¦t mean we wont have people working on other things like fixing bugs.

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Originally by: Caia

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Maybe CCP shouldn't make buggy code in the first place?

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Originally by: Caia

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If you're adding more bugs then you're fixing wit new content, something is wrong.

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Originally by: Caia

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Fix the Corp Interface and stop messing with code that's already been fixed.

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Originally by: Caia

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Don't add fluff, fix the stuff that needs fixing and then add CONTENT. Someone made the point that it is two entirely different teams that fix bugs and make new content. Fine, double the size of the bug fixing group.

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Originally by: Caia

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Toss your money where it belongs. And at this point, it isn't to fluff.

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Originally by: Gan Astro

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A lot of the stuff you mentioned should be fixed before any new content is added, but lets be realistic... CCP (like any other game developer) need to continously attract new customers for its product to grow. Wether we like it or not, walking in stations will most likely generate a whole influx of new players (you know the type that put eye-candy above depth and content ).

But imho, its been 4 years since Eve went live and our avatars are still restricted to spaceships only. Can you see Eve in another 3 years time being the same? For the longevity of eve, walking in stations and ultimately on planetary surfaces is the way it'll most likely have to go.

Walking in stations is CCP's first tentative step towards full 3D avatar interaction.

If CCP get it right, it could be awesome... if they get it wrong....

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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Different people work on different things.

Because we add in more content doesn¦t mean we wont have people working on other things like fixing bugs.

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Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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Different people work on different things.

Because we add in more content doesn¦t mean we wont have people working on other things like fixing bugs.

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This explanation would work if bugs were fixed in a week or two, or even a month, but when the same bugs, unpolished user interface, and many other problems have exsisted for almost 3 years, it is hard to accept that different people work on different things as an excuse. CCP is still spending money and time on creating new things when very simple basic things need to be fixed and are seemingly ignored. Let alone, no one plays Eve for avatar combat and you don't see people begging for it on the forums for the past 3 years, but you do see people begging for the interface to be overhauled, or other stupid small bugs to be fixed, not to mention balance issues and constellation sovereignty.

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Quote:

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Thou shall pew pew.

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Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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Different people work on different things.

Because we add in more content doesn¦t mean we wont have people working on other things like fixing bugs.

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This explanation would work if bugs were fixed in a week or two, or even a month, but when the same bugs, unpolished user interface, and many other problems have exsisted for almost 3 years, it is hard to accept that different people work on different things as an excuse. CCP is still spending money and time on creating new things when very simple basic things need to be fixed and are seemingly ignored. Let alone, no one plays Eve for avatar combat and you don't see people begging for it on the forums for the past 3 years, but you do see people begging for the interface to be overhauled, or other stupid small bugs to be fixed, not to mention balance issues and constellation sovereignty.

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Originally by: Bein Glorious

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walking in stations sounds cool to me as long as i can take off all my clothes and run around naked making an ass of myself

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Originally by: Krogan Ukone

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Definately DO NOT agree with what the OP has said here, I think its a fantastic idea that will add some great depth to what can be at times an `impersonal` game

Besides thats why they are employing 100 more staff to work alongside fixing and improving the `in space` stuff as well as adding this great feature.

Keep up the good work on this fantastic looking feature CCP, I for one can`t wait

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Originally by: Winterblink

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And you'd rather have the walking-in-station guys working on those, rather than the people who are the most knowledgable about those topics? It might be presumption on my part, but I'm fairly confident that everyone at CCP is not a generalist, able to be plugged in to any aspect of the game's development at will.

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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Different people work on different things.

Because we add in more content doesn¦t mean we wont have people working on other things like fixing bugs.

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Originally by: Winterblink

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And you'd rather have the walking-in-station guys working on those, rather than the people who are the most knowledgable about those topics? It might be presumption on my part, but I'm fairly confident that everyone at CCP is not a generalist, able to be plugged in to any aspect of the game's development at will.

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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So what, precisely, is added to the game by walking around then? I don't get it. Are there some tasks that will require walking around (game related tasks)? Are they going to make it such that I have to walk all over kingdom come to, say, refine minerals or something? Outside of the wowtard angle that I think we all know is the unspoken underlying reason this is happening, where's the badda bing in the whole concept? The meat, as it were? How will it add to real gameplay?

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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I'm already immersed.

What net benefit do I gain from strolling around a station, for real I mean. How does it add to my gameplay?

Strolling around and watching WoW-ish dance parties, ain't adding to gameplay I'm afraid. So....what else?

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Originally by: Xelios

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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So what, precisely, is added to the game by walking around then? I don't get it. Are there some tasks that will require walking around (game related tasks)? Are they going to make it such that I have to walk all over kingdom come to, say, refine minerals or something? Outside of the wowtard angle that I think we all know is the unspoken underlying reason this is happening, where's the badda bing in the whole concept? The meat, as it were? How will it add to real gameplay?

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Well I have no idea what CCP is planning, but like I said I assume at some point they'll want to release a new game. Lets say this new game revolves around characters walking about instead of flying spaceships, then they'd need to develop a new engine for it. So if they're doing that anyway, why not add it to EVE too?

They did say that the station interface will still be there, so you won't have to walk around to get things done unless you want to. I for one can't wait until Rampage Center has it's own bar and actual exotic dancers

(there will be bars and exotic dancers... right?)

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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I'm already immersed.

What net benefit do I gain from strolling around a station, for real I mean. How does it add to my gameplay?

Strolling around and watching WoW-ish dance parties, ain't adding to gameplay I'm afraid. So....what else?

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Originally by: Cloora

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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I'm already immersed.

What net benefit do I gain from strolling around a station, for real I mean. How does it add to my gameplay?

Strolling around and watching WoW-ish dance parties, ain't adding to gameplay I'm afraid. So....what else?

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It will be a godsend to us RP corps.

And it is entirely optional so just dont do it.

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Originally by: Humpalot

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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I'm already immersed.

What net benefit do I gain from strolling around a station, for real I mean. How does it add to my gameplay?

Strolling around and watching WoW-ish dance parties, ain't adding to gameplay I'm afraid. So....what else?

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Here's a link to a video of walking in stations in EVE. Seems pretty cool to me. Walk up to your Zealot/whatever and actually get a feel for its size? Helps the immersion for me but as others have said it si entirely optional so if you don't want to get out of your ship then don't.

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Originally by: Toros Revoke

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It's happening, they're doing it, they aren't going to not do to please you! FFS can we stop doing this now?

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Originally by: Xelios

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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So what, precisely, is added to the game by walking around then? I don't get it. Are there some tasks that will require walking around (game related tasks)? Are they going to make it such that I have to walk all over kingdom come to, say, refine minerals or something? Outside of the wowtard angle that I think we all know is the unspoken underlying reason this is happening, where's the badda bing in the whole concept? The meat, as it were? How will it add to real gameplay?

---

Well I have no idea what CCP is planning, but like I said I assume at some point they'll want to release a new game. Lets say this new game revolves around characters walking about instead of flying spaceships, then they'd need to develop a new engine for it. So if they're doing that anyway, why not add it to EVE too?

They did say that the station interface will still be there, so you won't have to walk around to get things done unless you want to. I for one can't wait until Rampage Center has it's own bar and actual exotic dancers

(there will be bars and exotic dancers... right?)

---

I'm not for or against it, I'm just not seeing the actual benefit to gameplay. Call me odd but I don't need to come to EVE to play WoW, ya' know?

That said, if they actually add things *to do* that require walking around, so much the better. I do get the concurrent development angle on the 3D FPS engine, that makes sense, I'm just not seeing any actual gameplay benefits so far. But hey, six one way half dozen the other.

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Quote:

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Thou shall pew pew.

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Originally by: Esurnir

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Originally by: Xelios

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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So what, precisely, is added to the game by walking around then? I don't get it. Are there some tasks that will require walking around (game related tasks)? Are they going to make it such that I have to walk all over kingdom come to, say, refine minerals or something? Outside of the wowtard angle that I think we all know is the unspoken underlying reason this is happening, where's the badda bing in the whole concept? The meat, as it were? How will it add to real gameplay?

---

Well I have no idea what CCP is planning, but like I said I assume at some point they'll want to release a new game. Lets say this new game revolves around characters walking about instead of flying spaceships, then they'd need to develop a new engine for it. So if they're doing that anyway, why not add it to EVE too?

They did say that the station interface will still be there, so you won't have to walk around to get things done unless you want to. I for one can't wait until Rampage Center has it's own bar and actual exotic dancers

(there will be bars and exotic dancers... right?)

---

I'm not for or against it, I'm just not seeing the actual benefit to gameplay. Call me odd but I don't need to come to EVE to play WoW, ya' know?

That said, if they actually add things *to do* that require walking around, so much the better. I do get the concurrent development angle on the 3D FPS engine, that makes sense, I'm just not seeing any actual gameplay benefits so far. But hey, six one way half dozen the other.

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I can't foresee the far future, but dev don't want people to live less in space because station got gameplay content. And there is -no- plan whatsoever to make station a zone where you can shoot each other.

Do you know auto assault ? (ok you don't this game is pretty dead now) This game had his whole gameplay going on out of town in cars, and when you entered town you became your avatar (but with a real crappy animation and control that sucked gaz), and the avatar weren't even 10% as decent as the trailer we saw.

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Originally by: Esurnir

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Originally by: Xelios

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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So what, precisely, is added to the game by walking around then? I don't get it. Are there some tasks that will require walking around (game related tasks)? Are they going to make it such that I have to walk all over kingdom come to, say, refine minerals or something? Outside of the wowtard angle that I think we all know is the unspoken underlying reason this is happening, where's the badda bing in the whole concept? The meat, as it were? How will it add to real gameplay?

---

Well I have no idea what CCP is planning, but like I said I assume at some point they'll want to release a new game. Lets say this new game revolves around characters walking about instead of flying spaceships, then they'd need to develop a new engine for it. So if they're doing that anyway, why not add it to EVE too?

They did say that the station interface will still be there, so you won't have to walk around to get things done unless you want to. I for one can't wait until Rampage Center has it's own bar and actual exotic dancers

(there will be bars and exotic dancers... right?)

---

I'm not for or against it, I'm just not seeing the actual benefit to gameplay. Call me odd but I don't need to come to EVE to play WoW, ya' know?

That said, if they actually add things *to do* that require walking around, so much the better. I do get the concurrent development angle on the 3D FPS engine, that makes sense, I'm just not seeing any actual gameplay benefits so far. But hey, six one way half dozen the other.

---

I can't foresee the far future, but dev don't want people to live less in space because station got gameplay content. And there is -no- plan whatsoever to make station a zone where you can shoot each other.

Do you know auto assault ? (ok you don't this game is pretty dead now) This game had his whole gameplay going on out of town in cars, and when you entered town you became your avatar (but with a real crappy animation and control that sucked gaz), and the avatar weren't even 10% as decent as the trailer we saw.

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In station shooting would be one thing that would make this somewhat interesting. Full PVP, all the time. That would be nice. Or perhaps making some part of the current game dependent on station navigation (refining, production, research, whatever). There are possibilities

Sitting around dancing like you're just outside Gnomerian? Eh, I don't get it.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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That's what I'm saying, yes. If you fly with people that make you look bad, guess what? You look bad.

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Quote:

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Thou shall pew pew.

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Originally by: Hana Brenecki

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Edited by: Hana Brenecki on 26/03/2007 11:25:12
Walking in stations is not 'fluff'.

Even in the most basic possible form, it will completely change the way people play EVE. It will actually have far more gameplay impact than fixing the drones or corporate interface, or any number of other bugs and balance issues...

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Quote:

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You keep going on about dancing, fancy linking to where CCP have stated that they will definatly be putting "dancing" in?

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Originally by: Vadimik

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Edited by: Vadimik on 26/03/2007 17:22:45

Originally by: Hana Brenecki

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Edited by: Hana Brenecki on 26/03/2007 11:25:12
Walking in stations is not 'fluff'.

Even in the most basic possible form, it will completely change the way people play EVE. It will actually have far more gameplay impact than fixing the drones or corporate interface, or any number of other bugs and balance issues...

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QFT

Walking in stations is all about RP. If your don't get what's the point of RP... well... Play on and enjoy whatever "subscribed for", but claim not that WIS (and thus RP) has nothing to do with eve, since it's a MMOPRG after all.

For me WIS is one thing I really want to see. Because without ever seeing my character "in flash" I get slowly intoxicated by metagaming. I mean it. When all I see is numbers, numbers, and some pew-pew on top of that, it's just too easy to forget that it's your avatar inside that ship, and perceive it from afar. And that is one sure way to start thinking in meta-game terms.

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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So you're saying you need to dance the funky chicken and jump up and down in real time 3D in order to role play?

Again, not criticizing (or approving), just curious, that's all.

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Quote:

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You keep going on about dancing, fancy linking to where CCP have stated that they will definatly be putting "dancing" in?

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It's either that or..well...standing around and walking. Which contributes to immersion...how?

I never got Earth & Beyond either. Kind of walking around...and...?

...make stuff I guess. That was something. Otherwise, lacking FPS pvp, or announced functions that require station walking...still not getting it.

I'm also not sure why people are getting so bent out of shape and taking this personally. It's a simple question. I'm on the fence, honestly. In real life I also tend to look for reasons instead of just accepting fluff for fluff's sake. Whatcanyado?

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Quote:

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The first release will have limited functionality and is expected as a more of a socializing forum than a place for brutally strangling your rival corp members or tossing handgrenades into a crowd of newbies, although both would be rewarding experiences for many players ( not the ones being strangled or blown up, though ).

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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That's what I'm saying, yes. If you fly with people that make you look bad, guess what? You look bad.

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Quote:

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Obviously CCP see a benefit to adding station walking to the roleplaying element to the game.

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Quote:

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Obviously CCP see a benefit to adding station walking to the roleplaying element to the game.

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Well sure. Free beta testing in a large environment for a 3D avatar engine, and sucking away some more from the WoW/Everquest base.

If it's that, then I get it. lol

Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world.

In any event, just asking. You guys have fun with it.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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That's what I'm saying, yes. If you fly with people that make you look bad, guess what? You look bad.

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Personally I'd like to get a count of how many times CCP needs to tell the players that bugfixing and gamedesign are two entirely different tasks, done by completely different people with completely different skills.

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Originally by: Saskia Elko

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Quote:

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Obviously CCP see a benefit to adding station walking to the roleplaying element to the game.

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Well sure. Free beta testing in a large environment for a 3D avatar engine, and sucking away some more from the WoW/Everquest base.

If it's that, then I get it. lol

Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world.

In any event, just asking. You guys have fun with it.

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So why do you play a roleplaying game if you dont understand roleplay?

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world.

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Originally by: Sainrith

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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Thinking back to the MUD's I used to play, we had lots of roleplaying and immersion and relationships all form without a single stitch of graphics. Funny world.

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Aesthetics aren't necessary, but they're nice and they give the place a unique flavor and design. By your logic, EVE could be done without graphics at all and be a regular text based MUD.

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Quote:

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You're essentially trying to ask why people want double fudge mega-choco-crunch ice cream when there's plain old chocolate. For some people, regular old chocolate isn't enough.

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Originally by: Kaalen

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I've said this time and again when this topic comes up on the forums, Walking in Stations is being developed entirely for CCPs World of Darkenss MMO. CCP just chose to develop the engine for EVE first so that we would feel like we were getting something out of the 'developer time' spent on the other MMO.

It's been stated that no time that would be spent fixing bugs or balancing the game would instead be used on walking in stations, it's more of a bonus than anything else. Something that we are getting as CCP would have to develop it anyway, I'd rather we got something out of this new MMO than nothing at all.

It doesn't really add anything important to the game, but I welcome any 'free' new features.

But yes, there is a lot that they still need to fix.

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Quote:

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Um, no. I was asking what functionality, as in game benefit, this would bring. That was all. It caused quite a ruckus apparently. Honestly, it would be nice if people didn't take every statement as some kind of life and death challenge to their e-peen. It was just a question. In any event, hope you can see my clarification above as it was intended to be read, since it's clear you probably misunderstood the context of my statement. Hope the day goes well.

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Originally by: kieron

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Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer

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Originally by: t20 Posted on 02.07.07

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The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 26/03/2007 11:58:50

There is NO problem with eVe. Indisputably NOT signed!

CCP is hiring 100 staffs and walking in stations is not going to break EvE. WIS programmers would be programming WIS and core programmers would be fixing bugs. Any software company that is worth a salt would know how to manage their resources. Leave CCP and EvE alone. They last thing they need is players teaching them how to program EvE.

If you do not like eVe, you can leave the game and give me your stuffs in 2008. I know I would be enjoying eVe for another year. Goodbye if you are leaving. You would not miss WIS but the rest of us, paying customers would like to experience WIS in eVe.

/me training pugilism level 5.

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Arguing that different departments do different things and can't be expected to do each others' jobs is irrelevant. In fact it doesn't even address the issue at all. If you have bugs that aren't being fixed and new features going in constantly then you obviously have an imbalance in your priorities. It all boils down to money. Here's the hypothetical breakdown.

Big Bucket Of Money = $100
New Content Designers Budget = $95
Beer Budget = $4.95
Bug Fixers Budget= $0.05

Why is this stuff not "slap you in the face set you on fire" obvious?

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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Different people work on different things.

Because we add in more content doesn¦t mean we wont have people working on other things like fixing bugs.

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Originally by: NumberFour

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Arguing that different departments do different things and can't be expected to do each others' jobs is irrelevant. In fact it doesn't even address the issue at all. If you have bugs that aren't being fixed and new features going in constantly then you obviously have an imbalance in your priorities. It all boils down to money. Here's the hypothetical breakdown.

Big Bucket Of Money = $100
New Content Designers Budget = $95
Beer Budget = $4.95
Bug Fixers Budget= $0.05

Why is this stuff not "slap you in the face set you on fire" obvious?

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Somebody doesn't know what it is like to be a software designer or project manamger. It's called diminishing returns. Ten times the number of people working on a problem doesn't mean ten times the results, or anything close. It can often create more problems.

The Devs have produced a great product so far and are about ready to make it even more amazing. I, for one, can't wait.

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Originally by: Sainrith

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Quote:

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Um, no. I was asking what functionality, as in game benefit, this would bring. That was all. It caused quite a ruckus apparently. Honestly, it would be nice if people didn't take every statement as some kind of life and death challenge to their e-peen. It was just a question. In any event, hope you can see my clarification above as it was intended to be read, since it's clear you probably misunderstood the context of my statement. Hope the day goes well.

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Uhh, yeah, you're also making assertions(sp?) about what people put behind their posts. I'm just trying to help you out here.

You're asking functionality questions about aesthetics. That's the problem. There's no contribution towards functionality regarding graphics or looks. It's just to enhance the flavor of the game. The flavor of a game, however, is important to alot of people.

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Sir, I've been doing this probably longer than you've been alive. I know exactly how it works.

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Originally by: Ben Musso

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Sir, I've been doing this probably longer than you've been alive. I know exactly how it works.

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In that case ( after 14 years I suppose ) you still have not figured out that new features to software takes considerably less time then hunting down a bug. So much for knowing how it works.

And that's just FYI: I have been in software developement/management a bit longer then you ( more then twice ) but I still do not consider that a right or reason to place critic where it doesn't belong.
Unless you have full insight to either process management or code ... just shut your trap.

If you want a job with CCP just apply ... don't try to make yourself look better on the forums then you really are.

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Sir, I've been doing this probably longer than you've been alive. I know exactly how it works.

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Originally by: Wrangler

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We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want *both* anti-social *and* social players to grief each other!

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Originally by: Banana Torres

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Edited by: Banana Torres on 26/03/2007 10:36:32
Well, if walking in stations is not added then EvE will cease to exist. Its as simple as that. The world of MMOs is changing and CCP have to adapt to those changes.

And the biggest change happening just now is that customers are demanding a "Virtual World" environment. Which in EvE's case means walking in stations. Without it EvE will be a very unappealing prospect to new customers and so will wither.

The hard core PvPers can just ignore walking in stations. But without it, your game will die.

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Personally I wish they'd work on the bugs rather than wasting time on things like this but I have to say I'm curious about it.

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Personally I'd like to get a count of how many times CCP needs to tell the players that bugfixing and gamedesign are two entirely different tasks, done by completely different people with completely different skills.

A bughunter will probably not be a good content designer, a content designer will probably not be a very good bugfixer, and Oveur would probably not be a very good submarine captain.

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Hehe they can say it all they want. As someone that has worked in the industry for 14 years I can tell you without a doubt that if you want to do complicated software correctly you DO NOT add things on top of buggy code without fixing it first. It's a no-brainer. I've heard CCP say what you said a million times and every time I have to shake my head in disappointment that such a great company doesn't understand such a basic fundamental of software development.

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Angry beer bottles make Kaemonn a sad panda

Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Heh you guys can defend your stance against bugfixing being the TOP priority for good software development all you want. It doesn't make it any less insane.

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Originally by: Cleonius

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Edited by: Cleonius on 26/03/2007 20:02:03

Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Heh you guys can defend your stance against bugfixing being the TOP priority for good software development all you want. It doesn't make it any less insane.

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Being in software development, I can tell you I think you're mostly wrong. Unless you're in a critical business, once the big bad bugs have been squished, it's much more important to increase the customer base than it is to make a bug free software. Basically, once put, people are reluctant to migrate to another product : if the bugs are more annoying than critical, you can be fairly sure your customers aren't going away fast. Even a competitor would have to be much more competitive than you to snatch your customer base quickly (ok, it will happen... but slowly). It's much more efficient to develop new features to bring new customers, and capitalize on the human lazyness about changing everything. Sure, there's always the odd guy that will switch side as soon as it is efficient to do so. But experience proves it's quite a small minority.

Your mileage may vary, as always.

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Personally I wish they'd work on the bugs rather than wasting time on things like this but I have to say I'm curious about it.

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Personally I'd like to get a count of how many times CCP needs to tell the players that bugfixing and gamedesign are two entirely different tasks, done by completely different people with completely different skills.

A bughunter will probably not be a good content designer, a content designer will probably not be a very good bugfixer, and Oveur would probably not be a very good submarine captain.

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Edited by: Par''Gellen on 26/03/2007 20:17:46

Originally by: Cleonius

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Edited by: Cleonius on 26/03/2007 20:02:03

Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Heh you guys can defend your stance against bugfixing being the TOP priority for good software development all you want. It doesn't make it any less insane.

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Being in software development, I can tell you I think you're mostly wrong. Unless you're in a critical business, once the big bad bugs have been squished, it's much more important to increase the customer base than it is to make a bug free software. Basically, once put, people are reluctant to migrate to another product : if the bugs are more annoying than critical, you can be fairly sure your customers aren't going away fast. Even a competitor would have to be much more competitive than you to snatch your customer base quickly (ok, it will happen... but slowly). It's much more efficient to develop new features to bring new customers, and capitalize on the human lazyness about changing everything. Sure, there's always the odd guy that will switch side as soon as it is efficient to do so. But experience proves it's quite a small minority.

Your mileage may vary, as always.

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Quoted for actually inadvertently proving my point that this way of thinking is self destructive in the long run. You cannot balance crap vs. customers and call yourself a good developer.

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Originally by: Cleonius

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Depends on what you call a good developer... depends a huge deal on who is making the call

I used to think like you. I used to boast optimization, efficiency and quality code. I was young. I witnessed first hand how theory and real life were disconnected, how customers wanted good software less than they wanted to believe they had the best. My younger, absolute, uncompromising self still cry about it, but it has become quite clear that what you seem to be matters more than what you truly are, in almost all aspect of life.

Have a nice day anyway

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Originally by: JeanPierre

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I'm already immersed.

What net benefit do I gain from strolling around a station, for real I mean. How does it add to my gameplay?

Strolling around and watching WoW-ish dance parties, ain't adding to gameplay I'm afraid. So....what else?

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Originally by: Vadimik

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Edited by: Vadimik on 26/03/2007 17:22:45

Originally by: Hana Brenecki

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Edited by: Hana Brenecki on 26/03/2007 11:25:12
Walking in stations is not 'fluff'.

Even in the most basic possible form, it will completely change the way people play EVE. It will actually have far more gameplay impact than fixing the drones or corporate interface, or any number of other bugs and balance issues...

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QFT

Walking in stations is all about RP. If your don't get what's the point of RP... well... Play on and enjoy whatever "subscribed for", but claim not that WIS (and thus RP) has nothing to do with eve, since it's a MMOPRG after all.

For me WIS is one thing I really want to see. Because without ever seeing my character "in flash" I get slowly intoxicated by metagaming. I mean it. When all I see is numbers, numbers, and some pew-pew on top of that, it's just too easy to forget that it's your avatar inside that ship, and perceive it from afar. And that is one sure way to start thinking in meta-game terms.

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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That's a real shame then. The world needs more developers that hold themselves to the highest standards and won't compromise quality in favor of getting their 8 and hitting the gate. I've never lost this vision in my work and can proudly say that I will not rest until any bug found in my code is relentlessly hunted and squashed. I have never in my entire life settled for half assed work from myself or anyone around me and I damn sure will not settle for it from someone I am paying for a service. Could you call me a perfectionist? When it comes to my code I wouldn't have it any other way.

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Angry beer bottles make Kaemonn a sad panda

Originally by: Asimov Andies

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I'd like to see a program of yours, and then I would like to see a program that is higher than a calculator or notepad that does not have a bug. If you can provide a program of yours higher than the previously stated and a program without bugs higher than the stated, then you will have ground to stand on. Otherwise, it is sad that you continue to try to convince yourself and others around you that there is such thing as a complex program with no bugs.

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Originally by: Asimov Andies

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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That's a real shame then. The world needs more developers that hold themselves to the highest standards and won't compromise quality in favor of getting their 8 and hitting the gate. I've never lost this vision in my work and can proudly say that I will not rest until any bug found in my code is relentlessly hunted and squashed. I have never in my entire life settled for half assed work from myself or anyone around me and I damn sure will not settle for it from someone I am paying for a service. Could you call me a perfectionist? When it comes to my code I wouldn't have it any other way.

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I'd like to see a program of yours, and then I would like to see a program that is higher than a calculator or notepad that does not have a bug. If you can provide a program of yours higher than the previously stated and a program without bugs higher than the stated, then you will have ground to stand on. Otherwise, it is sad that you continue to try to convince yourself and others around you that there is such thing as a complex program with no bugs.

To everyone else complaining about not fixing bugs quick enough, All of you should band together and create an EvE rival that is and always will be bug free. hire only bugcatchers and patchers and we will see what game is better.

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Edited by: Par''Gellen on 26/03/2007 20:17:46

Originally by: Cleonius

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Edited by: Cleonius on 26/03/2007 20:02:03

Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Heh you guys can defend your stance against bugfixing being the TOP priority for good software development all you want. It doesn't make it any less insane.

---

Being in software development, I can tell you I think you're mostly wrong. Unless you're in a critical business, once the big bad bugs have been squished, it's much more important to increase the customer base than it is to make a bug free software. Basically, once put, people are reluctant to migrate to another product : if the bugs are more annoying than critical, you can be fairly sure your customers aren't going away fast. Even a competitor would have to be much more competitive than you to snatch your customer base quickly (ok, it will happen... but slowly). It's much more efficient to develop new features to bring new customers, and capitalize on the human lazyness about changing everything. Sure, there's always the odd guy that will switch side as soon as it is efficient to do so. But experience proves it's quite a small minority.

Your mileage may vary, as always.

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Quoted for actually inadvertently proving my point that this way of thinking is self destructive in the long run. You cannot balance crap vs. customers and call yourself a good developer.

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Originally by: Mistress Suffering

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Walking around in stations is a great big fat waste of CCP time.

We play EVE because it is a fascinating game about flying around in space ships.

There are many many many other games that do a quite satisfactory job of allowing me to walk around as a person. This interests me not at all in EVE.

Please improve game performance, work on underlying game flaws, and provide new spaceship-oriented toys to play with.

Please never bother touching walking around in stations again. That is so not worth the time.

Thanks.

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Angry beer bottles make Kaemonn a sad panda

Originally by: Cipher7

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Walking around stations adds nothing to the game but opportunities for WoWtards to dance around naked or have simulated sex by pressing the crouch button over and over.

RP? We already have the best kind of RP, it's called a private channel and using your imagination.

Score 1 for the WoW children.

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Originally by: Kaalen

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I've said this time and again when this topic comes up on the forums, Walking in Stations is being developed entirely for CCPs World of Darkenss MMO. CCP just chose to develop the engine for EVE first so that we would feel like we were getting something out of the 'developer time' spent on the other MMO.

It's been stated that no time that would be spent fixing bugs or balancing the game would instead be used on walking in stations, it's more of a bonus than anything else. Something that we are getting as CCP would have to develop it anyway, I'd rather we got something out of this new MMO than nothing at all.

It doesn't really add anything important to the game, but I welcome any 'free' new features.

But yes, there is a lot that they still need to fix.

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Immersion

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Originally by: Rells

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The path that CCP is going down is frankly disturbing to me. There are so many things in the game that could be improved and so many features having to do with the space side of eve that I think its frankly daft to consider putting in something so superficial and silly as walking around in stations. I cant possibly think of what that will add to the climate of Eve or enhance the player kingdoms.

Instead of blowing developer time doing this stuff, why doesn't CCP work on some of the many thousands of bugs in the game. They could actually fix the corp interface which has been broken for three years. They could implement real territoral control where kingdoms could form rather than having no defensible borders to speak of. They could spend time fixing the thousands of bugs and strengthen the servers. They could finally put in fleet formations and improve the fleet interfaces to account for managed ewar and other advanced pvp tactics. They could fix the dozens of bugs with POS deployments and introduce even more abilities to pvp.

Sometimes I read the in-development section and wonder what drugs the devs are taking. I for one would much rather they focus on things that are centric to the game rather that sillyness.

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Originally by: mafesto

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I would much rather wake up in a hospital/cloning center when I get podded/jump clone than the way it is now, thats what immersion is about

I would much rather talk to my agent face to face given the chance

I would much rather have corp meetings sitting around a table, being able to see my corp mates faces, being able to salute directors and officers as they walk in the room.

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Quote:

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How cool would it be, to be walking around some out of the way 0.0 station, and have a pirate NPC whisper to you "hey, come here, I have a interesting buisness proposition for you".....there is so many cool things that can be added in with it over time

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Originally by: Belco Ssefeaba

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You're making yourself look more and more ignorant by the minute. The EvE Universe doesn't revolve around you, I'm afraid. Just because it doesn't add to your gameplay, doesn't mean it won't add to others'. Ever heard of RPing? And how, exactly, does it subtract from your gameplay? How does it harm you? It doesn't.

I can't believe how incredibly short-sighted some people on this forum are, it really taints my view of the EvE community sometimes.

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Originally by: kieron

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Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer

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Originally by: t20 Posted on 02.07.07

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The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP

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Quote:

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What creates immersion isn't something that makes you think "oooh that looks cool" for a few times before you turn off the the feature.

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Originally by: Mortania

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1) Coders can code. Yes, animators/artists can't code, but coders can. And it takes coders to make Ambulation. Those coders COULD be working on fixing the stuff that's broken. And while not all coders are interchangable, UI work (which appears on nearly all top 10 problems lists) is simple enough that any programmer you'd want to pay money could work on it.

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Originally by: Hllaxiu

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Originally by: Mortania

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1) Coders can code. Yes, animators/artists can't code, but coders can. And it takes coders to make Ambulation. Those coders COULD be working on fixing the stuff that's broken. And while not all coders are interchangable, UI work (which appears on nearly all top 10 problems lists) is simple enough that any programmer you'd want to pay money could work on it.

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Would you prefer that those programmers be transfered to the White Wolf division for the WoD mmog?

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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For instance you wouldn¦t want me to design new corporation management system user interface stuff when I never managed a corporation to begin with

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Originally by: Mortania

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Yes!

Creating a feature is less than half the work. Debugging it is the other half. Supporting the feature in an MMO, that's halves three and four. So, unless these guys are planning on sticking around for the other 3/4 of the work...

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Originally by: w0rmy

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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For instance you wouldn¦t want me to design new corporation management system user interface stuff when I never managed a corporation to begin with

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No, but what could happen is:

Fire all the people working on the crap the community doesnt want.
Hire people to finally fix the bugs the community wants gone.

The whole 'these guys cant work on these things' story is nothing more than a cop out.


I mean really, having drones that properly work ONCE would be nice.

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Originally by: Kylar Renpurs

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*waits for the person who makes 'bugless software' to comment*

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Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly

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Radio is essential for Amarr, to call the much needed backup...

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Originally by: Soporo

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Quote:

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What creates immersion isn't something that makes you think "oooh that looks cool" for a few times before you turn off the the feature.

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You mean like the new map which has gone from cool, to meh, to omg it takes forever and SPINS?!

Walking in Stations will be fine, as long as (for the billionth time) theres no RINGS, or WEDDINGS, or DANCING, or JUVENILE EMOTES, or PINK and PURPLE FLUFF.

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Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny

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They'd better have a bar

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Originally by: Rells

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The path that CCP is going down is frankly disturbing to me. There are so many things in the game that could be improved and so many features having to do with the space side of eve that I think its frankly daft to consider putting in something so superficial and silly as walking around in stations. I cant possibly think of what that will add to the climate of Eve or enhance the player kingdoms.

Instead of blowing developer time doing this stuff, why doesn't CCP work on some of the many thousands of bugs in the game. They could actually fix the corp interface which has been broken for three years. They could implement real territoral control where kingdoms could form rather than having no defensible borders to speak of. They could spend time fixing the thousands of bugs and strengthen the servers. They could finally put in fleet formations and improve the fleet interfaces to account for managed ewar and other advanced pvp tactics. They could fix the dozens of bugs with POS deployments and introduce even more abilities to pvp.

Sometimes I read the in-development section and wonder what drugs the devs are taking. I for one would much rather they focus on things that are centric to the game rather that sillyness.

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Originally by: Na'Thuul

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Originally by: Par'Gellen

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Personally I wish they'd work on the bugs rather than wasting time on things like this but I have to say I'm curious about it.

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Personally I'd like to get a count of how many times CCP needs to tell the players that bugfixing and gamedesign are two entirely different tasks, done by completely different people with completely different skills.

A bughunter will probably not be a good content designer, a content designer will probably not be a very good bugfixer, and Oveur would probably not be a very good submarine captain.

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Hehe they can say it all they want. As someone that has worked in the industry for 14 years I can tell you without a doubt that if you want to do complicated software correctly you DO NOT add things on top of buggy code without fixing it first. It's a no-brainer. I've heard CCP say what you said a million times and every time I have to shake my head in disappointment that such a great company doesn't understand such a basic fundamental of software development.

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Originally by: Viliny

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I find it amusing how people playing EVE think they are these rugged elite players that are above anyone who plays other MMO's

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Originally by: Adrian Kerensky

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Originally by: Viliny

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I find it amusing how people playing EVE think they are these rugged elite players that are above anyone who plays other MMO's

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It's not that at all. It's just that EVE attracts a more maturer audience than a game intended for children such as WoW.

A lot of people (if not most I'm tempted to say) play EVE because the way the game was designed is for long term dedicated players. Not people looking for a quick 3 month fix.

We do not like to see directions taken to change that in order to gain a few more subscriptions a month.

We've already seen many aspects of EVE be made 'fairer' to appease newer players who whine in their masses; T2 BPOs being one of those things (no I am not a T2 BPO owner). It all leads to a slippery slope for this great game.

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Originally by: Adrian Kerensky

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/signed

Wasting dev time on frivalties instead of improving current aspects of the game that need to be fixed is just stupid imo.

Yes it's a nice idea but is it necessary? No.

EVE is a space game. The last thing we need lagging up systems is the realtime actions of people in stations being logged. I bet you the first thing anyone tries with the new in-station walking is whether running round in circles makes the system lag.

EVE is not a frag fest where we can take stations by going into them and having a deathmatch. It is a game of slow progress, overarching player empires, deep tactics and long term goals.

EVE is the Chess of the MMO world for those of us who do not like immature 11 year olds (appologies to any mature 11 year olds who play) running around shouting 'joo bin pwned', it is not the WoW of the MMO world and for my sake I hope that CCP does not try and turn it into that to grab a few more customers.

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