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Sticky:[December] Defender Missiles

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Lonewolf174 Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans 0	Posted - 2016.12.14 07:20:07 - [211] - Quote Capqu wrote: make them target drones or anyone using ecm on you instead What he said. better use for defenders, bombs are great, and need to see more use again. And thats from someone who is usually on the recieving end.
Gizzie Haslack Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2016.12.14 11:01:36 - [212] - Quote Lonewolf174 wrote: Capqu wrote: make them target drones or anyone using ecm on you instead What he said. Better use for defenders, bombs are great, and need to see more use again. And thats from someone who is usually on the recieving end. Just to play Devil's Advocate: T1 bombs, 3 of, incoming. That's your drones & frigates going pop on wave 1. Pods go on wave 2 ( all those expensive implants ). Possibly dessies too. T4 bombs kill battleships ( focused ), or can blap cruisers & dessies en-masse ( using non-focused bombs ) if done in waves. Bombs are some scary shiznit. I'd love to see more bombs going on. 3-4 Suicide Bombers could pop a fleet of 40-odd Frigates if well placed ( including those expensive pods that no-one insures ). And all it takes is a small wing of 3-4 Bombers getting the surprise factor with some general Voids ( not focused ). So how do you guard against that? You can make fun little Cloaky Destroyers, so Defender Missiles could be used by fleets ( including Bomber's Bar themselves ). Indeed. . It's all fun & games until no-one can afford to fly in the fun stuff anymore. That's still my main fear. I don't mind paying a subscription, or buying the odd top-up PLEX once every couple of months; but if you need mega-deep pockets to even get into a T2 then something is wrong. Business is business, so let the Rich kids pay for T3 ;)
Lugh Crow-Slave 3405	Posted - 2016.12.14 11:07:07 - [213] - Quote Gizzie Haslack wrote: You'll need talent to do it then, not just a Cloak. i take it you don't bomb much? or you only do it against fleets that have never dealt with bombing because it is no easy feat BLOPS Hauler
Lugh Crow-Slave 3405	Posted - 2016.12.14 11:10:21 - [214] - Quote Jakara Dakara wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Command Destroyers Command Destroyers receive at 50% role bonus to decreasing the reactivation timer on Defender Launchers. Any thoughts on perhaps making the bonus for Assault Frigates? As stated earlier in this thread command dessies have a niche roll atm where as Assault Frigates at the moment are completely outclassed by T3D's and it will give them more of a roll & usage. i would much rather AFs be given a good place in eve not just some gimmick tacked onto them so they are a one trick pony BLOPS Hauler
Gizzie Haslack Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2016.12.14 11:11:53 - [215] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Gizzie Haslack wrote: You'll need talent to do it then, not just a Cloak. i take it you don't bomb much? or you only do it against fleets that have never dealt with bombing because it is no easy feat That's the point. I want to feel talented. Study study study. Plus it's accurate to the phsyics. Momentum is momentum. High Speed launching might even get you past Defenders? Who wants some rich kid getting easy kills when you can instead have talented pilots kicking butt? Or you can coast in at 10m/s cloaked to a range of 29 km, and then de-cloak & launch. Oh, and then leg-it ( obviously ) to a pre-set off-the-grid warp point ( using dual-bookmark triangulation ).
Sami Hakaari Space Cavalry Regiment 0	Posted - 2016.12.14 13:27:44 - [216] - Quote Can anybody explain me why defence against missiles was removed completly? I was waiting for this patch to see them buffed and they removed it?
Cade Windstalker 634	Posted - 2016.12.14 14:33:10 - [217] - Quote Sami Hakaari wrote: Can anybody explain me why defence against missiles was removed completly? I was waiting for this patch to see them buffed and they removed it? You may want to try reading the thread, starting with the first post by CCP. The short answer is: They didn't.
Gizzie Haslack Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2016.12.14 14:36:36 - [218] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Jakara Dakara wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi Space Friends, Command Destroyers Command Destroyers receive at 50% role bonus to decreasing the reactivation timer on Defender Launchers. Any thoughts on perhaps making the bonus for Assault Frigates? As stated earlier in this thread command dessies have a niche roll atm where as Assault Frigates at the moment are completely outclassed by T3D's and it will give them more of a roll & usage. i would much rather AFs be given a good place in eve not just some gimmick tacked onto them so they are a one trick pony Agreed. AF's are currently expensive & pointless. In a Frigate you're gonna get blapped, so why spend nearly 45m etc on something so limited? Giving AF's a 'launcher upgrade' might actually bring them back into play. They could be the Y-Wing of EVE. An old & chunky doo-dah etc. I get the need for a Heavy Strike Frigate with a hugely-adaptable chassis, but Bombers are so good you just don't need AF's at this stage. I've had 'em queued for ages, and something better always comes along. That's not a good sign really.
Spirit Bishop Ministry of War Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2016.12.15 12:51:59 - [219] - Quote Capqu wrote: waste of goddamn time fozzie sov was enough of a nerf to bombing already, this is totally unnecessary noone is bombing currently in eve because you reliably cannot predict where the fight will be and bombing requires some setup time these changes would have been good 2 years ago now adays test and friends are literally flying around in the most bombable doctrines in history but noone can be bothered bombing them because its impossible to predict where engagements will happen and super dds are just better bombs anyway, not to mention the general power creep of ehp/speed making bombs harder than ever to land in adition 0 velocity bombs was some of the hardest **** to pull off and almost never saw any use so removing it for no reason i dont even understand, you just dont want people to be able to innovate? thanks for the final nail o7 bongers here is a suggestion because i guess i should be constructive make them target drones or anyone using ecm on you instead Honestly the biggest waste of time I have ran into in EvE Online was the link on the bottom of your rant.
Felix Shoen Appetite 4 Destruction Appetite 4 Destruction. 4	Posted - 2016.12.15 15:06:06 - [220] - Quote Bombing runs take planning, coordination, and skill. When they work out they are some of the most spectacular events in eve and make for great video. You at CCP even used bombers bar video in your "This is EVE" promo two years back. but now...well. Think about it this way. You now have a mechanism where a paying player of skill and experience has his entire ship's attack completely negated by a Free to Play player WITHOUT ANY PLAYER INPUT WHATSOEVER USING A SINGLE MODULE. what's next? how about a doomsday eliminator module mounted on an imicus. or a decloaking sphere only usable on noob-ships. if you want to get rid of stealth bombers, get rid of them. You can do that. Don't, however leave them in game to be nullified by Alpha clones. because that makes us PAYING customers just a little pissed off.

Gizzie Haslack Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2016.12.15 16:05:56 - [221] - Quote Felix Shoen wrote: Bombing runs take planning, coordination, and skill. When they work out they are some of the most spectacular events in eve and make for great video. You at CCP even used bombers bar video in your "This is EVE" promo two years back. but now...well. Think about it this way. You now have a mechanism where a paying player of skill and experience has his entire ship's attack completely negated by a Free to Play player WITHOUT ANY PLAYER INPUT WHATSOEVER USING A SINGLE MODULE. what's next? how about a doomsday eliminator module mounted on an imicus. or a decloaking sphere only usable on noob-ships. if you want to get rid of stealth bombers, get rid of them. You can do that. Don't, however leave them in game to be nullified by Alpha clones. because that makes us PAYING customers just a little pissed off. Fleets 'n' squadrons. It's the only way to be sure* ;) . * Unless the FC is a knob making money off of your back, but that's bye-the-bye.
May Arethusa The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 227	Posted - 2016.12.15 18:26:40 - [222] - Quote Quote: Adding Cov Ops AND Defender Missile capabilities might just fix teh AF. Yeah... No. Assault Frigates are just as capable as they used to be. The issue lies in the recent additions around them, T3Ds and Command Destroyers. I fail to see your logic in retasking an Assault Frigate to a defensive role. Quote: fozzie sov was enough of a nerf to bombing already, this is totally unnecessary noone is bombing currently in eve because you reliably cannot predict where the fight will be and bombing requires some setup time Your inability to co-ordinate with FCs to ensure a fight takes place on a pre-prepared battlefield isn't a nerf to bombing. That said, there are numerous static locations where fights will take place at predictable times, and that number is growing each day. Try adapating instead of bemoaning changes to the game, because we all know how much sympathy that gets you. You're living in a target rich environment, do something with it. Quote: You now have a mechanism where a paying player of skill and experience has his entire ship's attack completely negated by a Free to Play player WITHOUT ANY PLAYER INPUT WHATSOEVER USING A SINGLE MODULE. Not really. For a start, pressing a button is what is known as player input. Then there's the random nature of their targeting, meaning that at least some bombs will get through. That's without accounting for the two minute reactivation delay, a poorly co-ordinated anti-bombing squad can easily be negated with feints. Finally, how is this any less of an annoyance when activated by a paying customer? Grow up.
Gizzie Haslack Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2016.12.16 01:36:46 - [223] - Quote May Arethusa wrote: Quote: Adding Cov Ops AND Defender Missile capabilities might just fix teh AF. Yeah... No. Assault Frigates are just as capable as they used to be. The issue lies in the recent additions around them, T3Ds and Command Destroyers. I fail to see your logic in retasking an Assault Frigate to a defensive role. I just don't see the point with them when you can run a Dessie in pretty much every role an Assault Frigate does. Adding some zing could be fun. Having a 'summat' that can fly Cov-Ops and mount a Defender AND do a little Blapping too could compliment a Bomber-wing nicely. Oh, and as for solo-bombing I found this: https://puu.sh/rlngQ.mp4 I think it works nicely :)
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 3015	Posted - 2016.12.16 14:38:28 - [224] - Quote Gizzie Haslack wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Chenguang Hucel-Ge wrote: I'm not into PvP that much, but hey, defenders sound way too OP. Still, If you insist on adding one, please do it, but not without a tool to counter this one. Behold, duds. We have Bomb Launcher and then we add another launcher, let's call it "Bar I". Same fitting requirements of Bomb Launcher, roughly on par everything else. The difference is charge used. It's a dud, let's call it "Misericorde I". Cheaper than carbon, does no damage at all. The trick though, these are launched 3 per cycle, allowing for mild space saturation, thus providing some damage loss mitigation at cost of extra man on the field. nope the counter is bluff runs/more bombs per run 7 is no longer the holy number Launching duds for the real bombs to hide amongst is a reasonable strategy. If the defenders chase a dud then that is handy stuff. Or just launch more bombs and be sure all that went through exploded instead of the RNG of defenders sometimes wiping your real bombs and only duds getting through.
Rei Y Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation 15	Posted - 2016.12.16 16:26:11 - [225] - Quote didnt see it on the first 2 pages - do these changes apply to NPC defender missiles? 75% chance of defender missiles on team burners pretty much canceled out 75% DPS on missile boats.
Aischa Montagne Blut-Klauen-Clan 18	Posted - 2016.12.17 08:37:58 - [226] - Quote I have a bit hard time understanding what Problems you guys have. Do you realy want to do less Bombing runs because they are one little, not very effective counter ability on the battle field? Please, think again. Do you realy believe that we will see huge destroyer fleets against Bomber run that has no love with a majority of FCs currently flying? I have strong doubts that defender missles will have a big impact. I see some exceptations of course. I think people might scramble into Destroyers when they learn a bomber fleet tries attack something stationary. This is not to bad. However, I see a lot of Potential in the tech of Defender Missles. Maybe in future we see more effective Bombs, with more effective options to decoy, and with more effective way to shoot those Bombs down. Sounds good. And I like the Idea to get there in small steps much more appealing then in one huge Blob that is probably unbalanced and not working. I realy like that defender Missles are now somewhat usefull. Until now skilled Capsuleer did not looked at defender missles twice. Now I think even the skilled pilots might want to fit one of those occationly. And that for me is a huge improvement before. Even if the impact in total is little at this point of time. congrats CCP. I realy like this step by step approach of yours. And I would like to see more openness for smaller changes on the community side. Aischa
Kellasana FireStar Inc Evictus. 2	Posted - 2016.12.18 02:23:41 - [227] - Quote Thing you bombing whiners REALLY need to get through your heads too, is the fact that Defenders are, as has been said ad infinitum, RNG targetting. you guys seriously think every fleet you're going to bomb is going to be guarded by destroyers COVERED in defender launchers? Highly freaking doubt it. also, bear in mind, they'd have to be in range too, and activated on time. All you really need to do is just figure out which area to approach the fleet from would be best, or, you know, wait until their fleet is distracted, or several other tactical advantages. giving alphas the ability to have a dedicated and handy role in null fleets will make them want to be in them more, and will lead to more people eventually subbing so they can do more than just that. Granted, I to would like to see new changes show up for bombers as well, but We all just need to adapt with the times, rather than whine on and on about how things used to be, or how unfair things are.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3421	Posted - 2016.12.18 02:25:32 - [228] - Quote what are you talking about most destroyers have the one utility high needed to fit the max number of these and the amount of atention needed to use them is easily low enough to just have alts anchored to your fleets BLOPS Hauler
Redwood Tyx Rogue Clones Yulai Federation 0	Posted - 2016.12.21 20:37:28 - [229] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: ... Defender Launchers The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Once activated, it will scan local space for any bombs,and if it finds one within range, launch a defender missile to intercept it. If it doesn't find any bombs within range, it will still cycle. The Defender Launcher I has a 120 second reactivation timer. It doesn't require a launcher hardpoint, and has low fitting requirements (10 cpu, 2 powergrid), but uses some capacitor (50gj) to activate. You can only fit one defender launcher. ... Why couldn't you just made it so the player could choose if he want a defender launcher on his e.g Sabre, why make a launcher slot so that we loose one hi-slot if we do not want this defender missile thingy? I been playing several years and id been attacked one time from a bomb! ONE time!!! But I have used the 8th slot every time I fly with my Sabre!!! Do it again, do it right!
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 6323	Posted - 2016.12.21 21:08:50 - [230] - Quote Redwood Tyx wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: ... Defender Launchers The Defender Launcher I can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers, Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Once activated, it will scan local space for any bombs,and if it finds one within range, launch a defender missile to intercept it. If it doesn't find any bombs within range, it will still cycle. The Defender Launcher I has a 120 second reactivation timer. It doesn't require a launcher hardpoint, and has low fitting requirements (10 cpu, 2 powergrid), but uses some capacitor (50gj) to activate. You can only fit one defender launcher. ... Why couldn't you just made it so the player could choose if he want a defender launcher on his e.g Sabre, why make a launcher slot so that we loose one hi-slot if we do not want this defender missile thingy? I been playing several years and id been attacked one time from a bomb! ONE time!!! But I have used the 8th slot every time I fly with my Sabre!!! Do it again, do it right! Uh... This hasn't changed the fitting for any ship. Woo! CSM XI! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Alyssa Severasse Rolled Out Shadow Cartel 20	Posted - 2016.12.24 23:10:25 - [231] - Quote MJDFG Bombs. That is what you need.
Lugh Crow-Slave 3473	Posted - 2016.12.25 23:33:30 - [232] - Quote Alyssa Severasse wrote: MJDFG Bombs. That is what you need. Dear GOD! BLOPS Hauler
Capqu Half Empty 1254	Posted - 2017.01.01 17:27:40 - [233] - Quote So are you just gonna continue perpetuating that this forum isn't for addressing feedback but instead just for posting dumb things that go into the game whether or not you get the feedback you want or are you actually going to address any of the points people (not just me) brought up? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
Lelob Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 247	Posted - 2017.01.06 11:48:50 - [234] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Defender Launchers *The Defender Launcher I* can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers,** Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Cheers, CCP Larrikin and Team Phenomenon L O L Let me just launch bombs against a bunch of thrashers,svipuls, and dictors. It's like a ships-you-should-never-ever-ever-even-try-to-bomb-like-ever. This is a 0/10 totally 100% worthless idea. Go back to the drawing board with this crap please lol
Lelob Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 247	Posted - 2017.01.06 11:56:00 - [235] - Quote In case there is some confusion, the way you currently deal with bombers is with dictor bubbles/hic bubbles, ships with extremely high scan res, and ships that can kill frigs really quickly. That is literally the definition of a destroyer. A fast locking, frigate killing ship that can occasionally drop bubbles. If you saw a bunch of arty thrashers on grid now or dictors or confessors or p. much a bunch of destroyers, you wouldn't bomb it anyways unless you had balls of steel or were a total ***** ****.
Lelob Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 247	Posted - 2017.01.06 12:03:11 - [236] - Quote May Arethusa wrote: Quote: Quote: fozzie sov was enough of a nerf to bombing already, this is totally unnecessary noone is bombing currently in eve because you reliably cannot predict where the fight will be and bombing requires some setup time Your inability to co-ordinate with FCs to ensure a fight takes place on a pre-prepared battlefield isn't a nerf to bombing. That said, there are numerous static locations where fights will take place at predictable times, and that number is growing each day. Try adapating instead of bemoaning changes to the game, because we all know how much sympathy that gets you. You're living in a target rich environment, do something with it. You have literally 0 idea what you are talking about. I have tried this on numerous occasions and it is very, very hard. I tried it for about 2 weeks before I gave up. I've been on both ends of this (FCing vs bombers and FCing in bombers) and it's stupidly easy to avoid bombers and stupidly hard to set them up to counter people. I really cannot stress enough how much you do not understand how very wrong you actually are.
Frostys Virpio Yet another corpdot. 3045	Posted - 2017.01.06 18:44:17 - [237] - Quote Lelob wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Defender Launchers *The Defender Launcher I* can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers,** Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Cheers, CCP Larrikin and Team Phenomenon L O L Let me just launch bombs against a bunch of thrashers,svipuls, and dictors. It's like a ships-you-should-never-ever-ever-even-try-to-bomb-like-ever. This is a 0/10 totally 100% worthless idea. Go back to the drawing board with this crap please lol Their goal is to get group to bring destroyers along in their doctrine which would be worthwhile to try to bomb. If the enemy somehow decided to fly shield battleships, they could with this bring a few destroyers in hope of swatting bombs out of the sky. Those same destroyers can also attempt to shoot bombers to nullify their bombs if they are so inclined. I'm not saying ti will work but the goal was not to make dessi gang less of a bomb target. It's intended to integrate dessi as support in fleet that might get bombed. It comes at a time where CCP expect many newbies (alpha) so they try to give them a role they can actually do. As a sidenote, can all alpha clone train defenders or is it only missile factions that have access to it?
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 6357	Posted - 2017.01.06 23:31:48 - [238] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Lelob wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Defender Launchers *The Defender Launcher I* can only load Defender Missiles. It may only be fit to Destroyer class vessels (Destroyers,** Interdictors, Command Destroyers and Tactical Destroyers). Cheers, CCP Larrikin and Team Phenomenon L O L Let me just launch bombs against a bunch of thrashers,svipuls, and dictors. It's like a ships-you-should-never-ever-ever-even-try-to-bomb-like-ever. This is a 0/10 totally 100% worthless idea. Go back to the drawing board with this crap please lol Their goal is to get group to bring destroyers along in their doctrine which would be worthwhile to try to bomb. If the enemy somehow decided to fly shield battleships, they could with this bring a few destroyers in hope of swatting bombs out of the sky. Those same destroyers can also attempt to shoot bombers to nullify their bombs if they are so inclined. I'm not saying ti will work but the goal was not to make dessi gang less of a bomb target. It's intended to integrate dessi as support in fleet that might get bombed. It comes at a time where CCP expect many newbies (alpha) so they try to give them a role they can actually do. As a sidenote, can all alpha clone train defenders or is it only missile factions that have access to it? Ding, this is the correct answer. Single ship doctrines are boring. Woo! CSM XI! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Shereza Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 181	Posted - 2017.01.07 05:23:35 - [239] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: VCBee 2fast2furious wrote: Just to confirm, do Defender Missiles 2.0 distinguish between friendly and non-friendly bombs? They do not, they target a random bomb within intercept range. It does not consider friendly or non-friendly bombs. Rowells wrote: So, in regards to how it selects a bomb, is it truly random or does it pick the closest one? Its truly random. While I get that game realism must often be sacrificed on the altar of game balance this is one of those design choices that makes me wonder just what the heck is going on. We're playing in a universe with semi-autonomous drones, even fully autonomous "rogue" drones, FoF missiles, FTL communication, and other technological marvels, but we can't make bomb-buster missiles that are at least "smart" enough to aim for targets that are getting closer to them or their launch point much less home in on any bomb that isn't transmitting as "friendly?" This may make sense from a balance perspective, I've never touched bombs, but from a character perspective any engineer submitting this idea should be tossed out an airlock as hopelessly incompetent.
GREYBOBSASS Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 31	Posted - 2017.01.11 22:54:39 - [240] - Quote or make super slick looking minelaying destroyers with both bonuses to defenders and epic minelaying tech... maybe kamikaze drones like that chase on proxy



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