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Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:05:00 - [91] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Nobody but nobody tells us who we should and shouldn't fight. Ever. Please notice that we never have. All we have done is point out the double standards of your dealings with people around you. The ideology of Bloodveil should be at least as alien to you as the ideology of the Amarr loyalists. At least if we judge you by you speaches here on IGS. However, I must ask you this: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? PIE currently have several wars active besides various other duties (read the news). We deal with our enemies depending on their importance to us. Star Fraction is not high on the list and so we leave you alone for the time being. If you expect us to repect your right to form your own policies (which we do - we simply point out the inconsistencies) then who are you to question ours? Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Pointing out ideological differences between us and our allies is totally without value. We have ideological differences with everyone, friend and foe. So now you are willing to admit to the all too obvious differences in ideology between Star Fraction and Bloodveil. That is certainly a step in the right direction. Does this mark the beginning of a new line from Star Fraction regarding this question? Originally by: Devilish Ledoux The difference between friend and foe is that we still believe that our friends will come around to our way of thinking eventually without combat; while we believe that our enemies will probably never come around to our way of thinking and must be suppressed so that they do not impede our evolution. I can see how you must feel this way. While the Amarr loyalists have stuck to their views all along, Revan and her Bloodveil has certainly shown a certain moral "flexibility" when it comes to forming policies. Such "flexibility" might well prove to be an asset when dealing with Star Fraction it seems. Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Now, if you're done wasting your time hunched over a comm station, come out and make a difference. We're waiting for you. Then by all means, keep waiting. We will deal with you in due time - when we see fit. Until then just hang around - at least you do no harm to anyone that way. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:11:00 - [92] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus However, I must ask you this: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? We have precisely no respect for cowardice. Star Fraction is recruiting
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:37:00 - [93] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Pointing out ideological differences between us and our allies is totally without value. We have ideological differences with everyone, friend and foe. So now you are willing to admit to the all too obvious differences in ideology between Star Fraction and Bloodveil. That is certainly a step in the right direction. Does this mark the beginning of a new line from Star Fraction regarding this question? That there are differences between the ideologies of the Bloodveil and the Star Fraction has already been accepted by us. We could hardly do otherwise and it is hardly a new point. I said it in closing when I also pointed out some of the numerous points of agreement between our two groups here. It seems I have to repeat again that it is of no great interest to us what the views of third-parties may be as to the respective ideologies. We are the ones who judge that our ideologies have sufficient points of agreement, beyond any particular shared opposition to a given entity, for us to co-operate on any number of issues. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:14:00 - [94] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Octavinus Augustus However, I must ask you this: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? We have precisely no respect for cowardice. Is that the best you can come up with? You have no answer to my question so you try with an obvious flamebait? As for the quality of the bait you present, it makes your attempt to degenerate the disussion even worse. We have told you repeatedly that we find you to be rather insignificant. Do you honestly think we care one bit what you do or do not respect? Perhaps you should leave the posting to Mr Cosmopolite and others like him. People who at least makes an attempt to present an intelligent view on the debate. Try answering the question next time - If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:20:00 - [95] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Octavinus Augustus However, I must ask you this: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? We have precisely no respect for cowardice. Is that the best you can come up with? You have no answer to my question so you try with an obvious flamebait? As for the quality of the bait you present, it makes your attempt to degenerate the disussion even worse. We have told you repeatedly that we find you to be rather insignificant. Do you honestly think we care one bit what you do or do not respect? Perhaps you should leave the posting to Mr Cosmopolite and others like him. People who at least makes an attempt to present an intelligent view on the debate. Try answering the question next time - If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others Sorry, I only read the words of those with the courage to support their views in space. Come win my respect with actions and then I might be prepared to give you an answer. Star Fraction is recruiting
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:23:00 - [96] Originally by: The Cosmopolite We are the ones who judge that our ideologies have sufficient points of agreement, beyond any particular shared opposition to a given entity, for us to co-operate on any number of issues. So your basic stand is that while you have the right to question the ideology of other's (ie your thoughts on the Amarr theocratist dictatorship or whatever) you frown on anyone who put your own ideology under a similar scrutiny? You do indeed have the right to form alliances and frienships with whomever you desire. But then you make grand statements on IGS regarding "freedom" and follow it up with actions that clearly contradict your words. How can you expect that we shall not point to the inconsistencies so that those third parties you seem to disrespect so much may see you for what you really are? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:25:00 - [97] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Sorry, I only read the words of those with the courage to support their views in space. Come win my respect with actions and then I might be prepared to give you an answer. So instead you post replies to posts you haven't even read? You are beneath even contempt. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:41:00 - [98] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus So instead you post replies to posts you haven't even read? You are beneath even contempt. And yet I and my comrades are free to go where we choose in your capital systems and you are not. Must be maddening for you. Star Fraction is recruiting
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:45:00 - [99] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus So your basic stand is that while you have the right to question the ideology of other's (ie your thoughts on the Amarr theocratist dictatorship or whatever) you frown on anyone who put your own ideology under a similar scrutiny? Not at all. My stand is that I will refute claims that are false and claims that the only point of agreement between the Bloodveil and the Star Fraction is a 'shared hatred of the Amarrian Empire' are false claims. They are false because the Star Fraction and Bloodveil agree on a number of other issues, some of which I have set out, above and beyond opposition to a single given political entity. They are false if they rely on the interpretations of third-parties of our respective ideologies because when speaking of the question of agreements between the Bloodveil and Star Fraction what is of importance, by definition really, is the interpretations we have of our respective ideologies and where we agree and, yes, where we differ. Quote: You do indeed have the right to form alliances and frienships with whomever you desire. But then you make grand statements on IGS regarding "freedom" and follow it up with actions that clearly contradict your words. Such as? I have denied no-one any freedom that they care to exercise as they are able. You are still braying your best are you not? How then have I acted in contradiction to my beliefs? Let me anticipate you, I have not. Quote: How can you expect that we shall not point to the inconsistencies so that those third parties you seem to disrespect so much may see you for what you really are? I fully expect third-parties to point out what they believe to be inconsistencies based on their, in my view flawed, understanding of the issues. Your assessment of 'disrespect' is incorrect, incidentally. I am simply pointing out that when the issue is one of the agreements and differences between two parties, with no reference to any other entity, it is of no importance whatever what the views of any third-party may be. Keep on shouting out your theories as much as you like, by all means. It won't change the fact that they are false. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 10:44:00 - [100] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine And yet I and my comrades are free to go where we choose in your capital systems and you are not. Must be maddening for you. So now you are back to reading and answering my questions Jasmine? In that case I guess I'll refer you to my original one: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? As for what is maddining to whom, the Amarrian Loyalists are used to seeing enemies in Amarr from time to time - it's just business as usual to us. We will deal with you in due time. However, SF has spent considerable energy on various threads whining about our tactics and strategies. Perhaps we may conclude that SF appear to be less content with the current situation than PIE? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.

Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 11:02:00 - [101] Originally by: The Cosmopolite My stand is that I will refute claims that are false and claims that the only point of agreement between the Bloodveil and the Star Fraction is a 'shared hatred of the Amarrian Empire' are false claims. The issue here, at least as far as I'm concerned, is that at the very basic level the ideologies expressed by SF and Bloodveil are incompatible. One wishes for a galaxy wide theocratic dictatorship with Revan Neferis at the helm while the other wishes for an end to all government. Just one clear example of incompatibility. There are multiple. You answer that you and Bloodveil agree on a number of issues and that that is enough for you. That would be like PIE seeking admittance into Ushra Khan as we both claim to defend the individuals right to "live and prosper in accordance with the law". That we interpret "live", "prosper" and "law" in vastly different ways should matter little according to your standards. You will see no such alliance. PIE and U'K are incompatible and we both know it. We both place a very high value on such concepts as "consistency", "commitment" and "belief" - even if we believe in different things. Incidentally, that is another reason why U'K ranks a lot higher on PIE's "enemies to deal with" list than does SF. I must refer you again to my analogy with the 3-year-old who holds his hands across his ears and sing a little tune to avoid facing the uncomfortable truths of the world. You increasingly remind me of such a child, Mr Cosmopolite. I fear this discussion has reached a dead end. Until you are willing to face the world as it is, and not as how you wish it to be, then there is little point in this debate. When you have come to your senses seek me out and we may yet have a debate. Until then, keep your hands across your ears and sing your little tune. Just in case, you had better close your eyes as well. GOD only knows what they may find out if you keep them open. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 12:08:00 - [102] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus The issue here, at least as far as I'm concerned, is that at the very basic level the ideologies expressed by SF and Bloodveil are incompatible. The issue here is that a coward who has thus far played absolutely no role in the fighting has no place to debate or criticise either entity that believes in personal responsibility, individual strength and opposition to the status quo. I am trying to drop you subtle hints here but until you come and do something substantive about your "concerns" you are occupy the position of a windbag no more and no less. Star Fraction is recruiting
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.08 14:50:00 - [103] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine The issue here is that a coward who has thus far played absolutely no role in the fighting has no place to debate or criticise either entity that believes in personal responsibility, individual strength and opposition to the status quo. I am trying to drop you subtle hints here but until you come and do something substantive about your "concerns" you are occupy the position of a windbag no more and no less. If I'm not mistaken Octavinus (like Archbishop) is one of the more financially oriented members of PIE. He is, so to speak, "putting his money where his mouth is" in a more literal way. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.08 15:13:00 - [104] Amarrians are not allowed to post on GalNet. Intellectual inferiors to humanity shouldn't be allowed the privilege of speech, let alone of an Empire.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.08 15:19:00 - [105] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris [snip] Intellectual inferiors to humanity shouldn't be allowed the privilege of speech, let alone of an Empire. ...and yet here you are Andreus. You may not have an empire, but you are speaking for some reason. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 15:45:00 - [106] Edited by: Octavinus Augustus on 08/04/2007 15:44:35 Edited by: Octavinus Augustus on 08/04/2007 15:42:38 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine The issue here is that a coward who has thus far played absolutely no role in the fighting has no place to debate or criticise either entity that believes in personal responsibility, individual strength and opposition to the status quo. I am trying to drop you subtle hints here but until you come and do something substantive about your "concerns" you are occupy the position of a windbag no more and no less. Jasmine, you have all the subtlety of a brick. Both you and the brick may believe you are subtle, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. As for the rest of your post, it's just the smack we have become accustomed to from your side. You Jasmine should probably concentrate on the question put to you: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Or is it that you have no answer and consequently tries to derail the discussion once again? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:02:00 - [107] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus You Jasmine should probably concentrate on the question put to you: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? [/quote I expect nothing from my enemies except that they be prepared to risk their cowardly skins in battle while presuming to lecture people on galnet. You have precisely no right to expect courtesy from me, you have done precisely nothing to deserve it. Star Fraction is recruiting
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:06:00 - [108] Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 08/04/2007 16:02:53 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine I expect nothing from my enemies except that they be prepared to risk their cowardly skins in battle while presuming to lecture people on galnet. You have precisely no right to expect courtesy from me, you have done precisely nothing to deserve it. So you're saying that people who arn't fighting, with their own ships in the middle of combat, arn't worth anything? ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:09:00 - [109] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Intellectual inferiors to humanity shouldn't be allowed the privilege of speech, let alone of an Empire. I will not forget that it is you saying this. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:09:00 - [110] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel So you're saying that people who arn't fighting, with their own ships in the middle of combat, arn't worth anything? Amarrian's on the PIE side certainly. Star Fraction is recruiting

Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:15:00 - [111] Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 08/04/2007 16:12:27 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel So you're saying that people who arn't fighting, with their own ships in the middle of combat, arn't worth anything? Amarrian's on the PIE side certainly. Ah, so that is how Fractionists make their ideologies and politics fit together, they just follow the maxim of holding nothing and no one to the same standard. I hear the gallente are suffering from the same problem. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Atandros Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:24:00 - [112] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Jasmine Constantine The issue here is that a coward who has thus far played absolutely no role in the fighting has no place to debate or criticise either entity that believes in personal responsibility, individual strength and opposition to the status quo. I am trying to drop you subtle hints here but until you come and do something substantive about your "concerns" you are occupy the position of a windbag no more and no less. If I'm not mistaken Octavinus (like Archbishop) is one of the more financially oriented members of PIE. He is, so to speak, "putting his money where his mouth is" in a more literal way. Considering the recent upsurge in using plain T1 fittings and the deployment of legions of T1 cruisers by the Amarrian loyalists (all easy to see in our public kill records), I don't think that chap is putting money anywhere near where his mouth is in any sense whatsoever. -------
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:29:00 - [113] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Octavinus Augustus You Jasmine should probably concentrate on the question put to you: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? [/quote I expect nothing from my enemies except that they be prepared to risk their cowardly skins in battle while presuming to lecture people on galnet. You have precisely no right to expect courtesy from me, you have done precisely nothing to deserve it. That, little Jasmine, place you at odd's within your own organisation. The previous view expressed by SF was that PIE should not presume to tell you people how to fight your war. You now tell us that you expect no such courtesy (although you shall certainly have it). Tell me, little one, does it not bother you that you cannot even live up to the standards your own organisation must expect from it's members? Or is it that SF expects one standard of conduct from it's enemies while not feeling honorbound to conduct your own dealings in a similar way? I think it is time for you, little Jasmine, to call in the cavalry and let those of your organisation with a little more talent for this do the talking. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:32:00 - [114] Originally by: Atandros Considering the recent upsurge in using plain T1 fittings and the deployment of legions of T1 cruisers by the Amarrian loyalists (all easy to see in our public kill records), I don't think that chap is putting money anywhere near where his mouth is in any sense whatsoever. Perhaps, little Jasmine, the cavalry has arrived. Do we have a new candidate to try his hand on your little campaign of smack? Perhaps, Atandros, I should refer you to the question Jasmine is so evidently unable to give a conherent reply to: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Can you do any better? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Nekumi Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:38:00 - [115] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Atandros Considering the recent upsurge in using plain T1 fittings and the deployment of legions of T1 cruisers by the Amarrian loyalists (all easy to see in our public kill records), I don't think that chap is putting money anywhere near where his mouth is in any sense whatsoever. Perhaps, little Jasmine, the cavalry has arrived. Do we have a new candidate to try his hand on your little campaign of smack? Perhaps, Atandros, I should refer you to the question Jasmine is so evidently unable to give a conherent reply to: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Can you do any better? Here is some nice smack to go along with your answer. Respect is earned you muppet and you have been found wanting.
Atandros Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:50:00 - [116] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Atandros Considering the recent upsurge in using plain T1 fittings and the deployment of legions of T1 cruisers by the Amarrian loyalists (all easy to see in our public kill records), I don't think that chap is putting money anywhere near where his mouth is in any sense whatsoever. Perhaps, little Jasmine, the cavalry has arrived. Do we have a new candidate to try his hand on your little campaign of smack? Perhaps, Atandros, I should refer you to the question Jasmine is so evidently unable to give a conherent reply to: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Can you do any better? Deplorably evasive (though not surprising by any stretch of the imagination). I'll begin dignifying you with answers when I see you fighting for your paramilitary organization, and contributing to it with something more substantial than trapping other Galnet posters in linguistic contortions. -------
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 18:03:00 - [117] Pay them no heed Octavinus. The barrage of insults is just indicative of the fact that SF has run out of logic and yet still feels it imperative to get the last word in. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 22:15:00 - [118] Originally by: Atandros I'll begin dignifying you with answers when I see you fighting for your paramilitary organization, and contributing to it with something more substantial than trapping other Galnet posters in linguistic contortions. I take it then, that you cannot come up with an answer either Mr Atandros? If it helps you, then please do pretend the question is asked by anyone you like. That isn't really important. The question remain the same. For you convenience, I'll post it again below: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 22:43:00 - [119] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus I take it then, that you cannot come up with an answer either Mr Atandros? If it helps you, then please do pretend the question is asked by anyone you like. That isn't really important. The question remain the same. For you convenience, I'll post it again below: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? When the entirety of the opposing allied forces meets in a dramatic fleet battle and pursuit and you are the only person hiding in a station you have to get an inkling of the reason why it is we disrespect you so. Star Fraction is recruiting
Azure Skyclad Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 22:48:00 - [120] Edited by: Azure Skyclad on 08/04/2007 22:46:21 I don't expect anything from you or anyone else Octavinus. This is the simple point of understanding that you and your ilk fail to grasp. http://ultravixen.co.uk/



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