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Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.23 00:03:00 - [181] I find it very interesting that the Loyalist Bloc seems to involved on creating mass hysteria for the general audience. It has been implied that Usha'Khan, Star Fraction and the Sani Sabik are acting in concert against the Empire. The reality is further from the truth. The truth is that above mentioned agencies have done more to inspire fear and terror amongst the corps and allied corps of the Loyalist Bloc. In many cases terrorizing these corps into siding with the Loyalists. This is the true face of terrorism. Not the Sani Sabik or the Star Fraction Alliances. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:20:00 - [182] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus They believe that taking 4 weeks to organize an expedition to an empty system outshines "building" and controlling a region with 4 stations and a well developed infrastructure. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that two of those stations were not 'built' by CVA, but stolen through violence and bloodshed. Correct me if I am wrong.
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:12:00 - [183] Octavinus, it would be presumptuous of us to speak for either the Ushra'Khan or the Sani Sabik. Both are more than capable of standing on their two feet and defending themselves both publicly and ideologically. As such, any conflict between them is their business alone, not ours. While of course we would prefer there were no conflict between our allies, that is something that is up to them, not us, to work out. I am confident both sides would tell you the same thing. Free people prefer to speak for themselves. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:23:00 - [184] Originally by: Casserina Leshrac It has been implied that Usha'Khan, Star Fraction and the Sani Sabik are acting in concert against the Empire. The reality is further from the truth. Is it not true that the Star Fraction assisted the Ushra'Khan in their doomed defence of Karishal's Folly? Is it not true that the Ushra'Khan and Star Fraction joined forces during the recent Doriam II memorial service? Is it not true that the leaders of Bloodveil and The Star Fraction are in regular contact with each other? Is it not true that senior members of the Star Fraction have in this very thread referred to both the Star Fraction and Bloodveil as their allies? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:24:00 - [185] Originally by: Mattduk Originally by: Octavinus Augustus They believe that taking 4 weeks to organize an expedition to an empty system outshines "building" and controlling a region with 4 stations and a well developed infrastructure. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that two of those stations were not 'built' by CVA, but stolen through violence and bloodshed. Correct me if I am wrong. Have you checked how many outposts the CVA controls in Providence? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
MorbidReality Minmatar The Templars Knights	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:42:00 - [186] I have been following this and couple of other threads concerning the Amarr empire and/or Bloodveil out of pure curiousity, and wherever I read a post by a Bloodveil I sometimes see apes and monkeys mentioned and likely used to give a short description to the Minmatar (unless I am misunderstanding something). This confuses me, since in thread about the Sani Sabik, it clearly states that several paths in the cult are open to all races, yet there are statements like "inferior race of monkeys", and it is hard to think that members of that race would be welcome into the cult. I would be happy if someone (preferredly someone of Bloodveil) could clear this up for me. I am not trying to criticize, I am trying to understand. (( I am not an RPer myself, but this stuff is quite interesting and fun to read. ))
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:41:00 - [187] Originally by: Revan Neferis Originally by: Gaius Kador Originally by: Revan Neferis The words "Loyalists" and "failure" are synonyms. Have a look at Providence, little girl. Your worth is easily measured in dust, while the Empire stands strong. However, the post count attributed to your stupidity is impressive. Good heaven's when I think you have exposed all your stupidity it comes more! Providence is not even AMARR EMPIRE SOVEREIGNITY you ignorant animal. Wonderful! I am certain you can jump a little bit higher next time, however. ----------------------------------------------
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.23 17:30:00 - [188] Originally by: MorbidReality Edited by: MorbidReality on 23/07/2007 17:05:54 Edited by: MorbidReality on 23/07/2007 14:57:35 I have been following this and couple of other discussions concerning the Amarr empire and/or Bloodveil out of pure curiousity, and when I read a reply by a Bloodveil I sometimes see apes and monkeys mentioned and likely used to give a short description to the Minmatar, unless I am misunderstanding something. This confuses me, since in public information thread about the Sani Sabik and Bloodveil, it clearly states that several paths in the cult are open to all races, yet there are statements like "inferior race of monkeys", and it is hard to think that members of that race would be welcome into the cult. It would be appreciated if someone, preferredly someone of Bloodveil, could clear this up for me. I am not trying to criticize, I am trying to understand. (( OOC I am not an RPer myself, but this stuff is quite interesting and fun to read. )) Other sects of the Sani Sabik Faith (not the alliance under Bloodveil) have their own rules to their membership. And certainly they are allowed to have their own views in regards to the lesser races in their membership. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.07.23 18:52:00 - [189] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Casserina Leshrac It has been implied that Usha'Khan, Star Fraction and the Sani Sabik are acting in concert against the Empire. The reality is further from the truth. Is it not true that the Star Fraction assisted the Ushra'Khan in their doomed defence of Karishal's Folly? Is it not true that the Ushra'Khan and Star Fraction joined forces during the recent Doriam II memorial service? I can say that's all true. As it has been pointed out before, a common interest coincided here. But why do you point out brief instances in time as if they are an everyday occurance? Especially considering just how long ago those events were. Can you name a more recent and consistent set of events? And regarding the whole Bloodviel-Star Fraction thing you have been ranting about, perhaps you missed it when it was stated numerous times how they share some common ideals and goals. Do you understand the difference between the far off future and the present? Their long term goals may not mesh, but right now, their goals do. Originally by: Rodj Blake Have you checked how many outposts the CVA controls in Providence? I have. Some of us have waved as we raced by while you were all safely tucked away in the docking bay of those outposts.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.23 20:02:00 - [190] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Casserina Leshrac It has been implied that Usha'Khan, Star Fraction and the Sani Sabik are acting in concert against the Empire. The reality is further from the truth. Is it not true that the Star Fraction assisted the Ushra'Khan in their doomed defence of Karishal's Folly? Is it not true that the Ushra'Khan and Star Fraction joined forces during the recent Doriam II memorial service? I can say that's all true. As it has been pointed out before, a common interest coincided here. But why do you point out brief instances in time as if they are an everyday occurance? Especially considering just how long ago those events were. Can you name a more recent and consistent set of events? Considering the fact that this discussion has been in hibernation for three months, surely the events of three weeks ago are recent enough for you? Quote: And regarding the whole Bloodviel-Star Fraction thing you have been ranting about, perhaps you missed it when it was stated numerous times how they share some common ideals and goals. Do you understand the difference between the far off future and the present? Their long term goals may not mesh, but right now, their goals do. Hardly a rant, however, I refer you to the part of this discussion where I point out the ideological differences between Bloodveil and Star Fraction, and that the only objective that they share is the overthrow of the Empire. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 12:29:00 - [191] Originally by: Rodj Blake Hardly a rant, however, I refer you to the part of this discussion where I point out the ideological differences between Bloodveil and Star Fraction, and that the only objective that they share is the overthrow of the Empire. As the readers of this forum have had to suffer for years now Rodj: since you are clearly incapable of understanding the merest element of Star Fraction ideological philosophy its difficult to see how you can presume to lecture anybody about ideological differences between us and anyone else. Simply accept that your nationalist mind cannot conceive that an organisation exists that literally does not care about the interactions of third parties and doesn't consider itself bound to police or comment on those interactions where it is literally none of our business. Star Fraction has fought and humiliated the Amarrian nationalists Rodj - at this point that is all you need to remember and let the knowledge of your weakness in the testing bring a shiver to your palid skin when you wake from vivid nightmares in the small hours. Who knows, we might never come back. Perhaps six months from now you can convince yourself that the whole episode never happened and PIE have an uncheckered history of continual victory and martial accomplishment. Whatever Rodj - But do not presume to claim you understand us. You understand nothing and your painfully transparent attempts at manipulation are childish and pathetic and serve only as a clown's ministrations in the shadow of your complete martial collapse as a force of one-time significance in the affairs of nations and post-national entities. Star Fraction is recruiting
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.24 12:40:00 - [192] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 24/07/2007 12:43:00 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 24/07/2007 12:42:27 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 24/07/2007 12:41:56 Jasmine, perhaps you should go back and read the first few pages of this discussion, where I lay out the evidence that the only area where the fundamental policies of SF, Bloodveil and the assorted Minmatar terrorist cells coincide is in their hatred of the Empire. Nobody from any of those three groups has provided evidence of a single overlap of substantive policies. As for your tired old line about the SF humiliating us, do I really need to list the lies that you are proven to have told regarding our conflict yet again? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:34:00 - [193] Originally by: Rodj Blake As for your tired old line about the SF humiliating us, do I really need to list the lies that you are proven to have told regarding our conflict yet again? There is no point whatsoever in you listing your lies and false accusations claiming other people are "lying" Rodj. The only people that believe a word you say are brainwashed Amarrian nationalists and dupes of amarrian nationalists. Most everyone else quietly wishes you'd simply stop or disappear but is wary of verbalising such thoughts through fear of being the recipients of fresh bouts of Rodj-esq frenetic outpourings. As for me, well, I'm happy we humiliated you personnally on several occassions in the recent war and your entire nationalist community in the Vigil for the worm-emperor that our alliance played a significant hand in turning into a blood-soaked carnage for loyalists on the last day of the war. Spin away the loss of 90% of your battlegroup and your personal podding in the wreckage of the ship your predecessor used to flee from the battlefield in as you like Rodj - but personally I have more respect for the intelligence of the average reader and will let them reach their own conclusions as to what happened there. But the point of this thread now (as then) is that you are desperately afraid of your enemies and though you understand precisely nothing of our SF idealogy you can't help but rattle out substandard attempts at intrigue and manipulation to try and improve your position. But don't worry Rodj! The war is over and you can now undock safely once again. You really don't have to keep doing this. Back to sleep and serving the Amarrian agents. Carry garbage to Sarum Prime for profit! Mine some Omber in Mista! Enjoy the sights of your homeland once again. Go be free, enjoy the respite. Our gift to you. Peace has come so go play reenactment games with the Electus Matari around chosen stargates. You "earned" it. Star Fraction is recruiting
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:40:00 - [194] Think what you like Jasmine, but every shot of ours is as real as yours. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:48:00 - [195] Originally by: Evanda Char Think what you like Jasmine, but every shot of ours is as real as yours. Yes we heard about your "vigils" and public expressions of mutual respect at the parade for the worm-emperor. But your business is your own of course - you have no need to justify your "worth" to me. Star Fraction is recruiting
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:55:00 - [196] We lost 90% of our battle group? That's odd, because not only did the SF need to team up with U'K to even compete with the loyalist fleet (thus nicely proving the truth of my original post here), but the loyalists held the field of conflict. As for losses, the data that I have seen suggest that the combined loyalist force inflicted more losses on the combined anarcho-terrorist force than were received. Since you seem so eager to be reminded of your previous lies, how about these as examples: * The claim by Jasmine that PIE Inc had been rendered impotent by the SF "occupation" of Amarr - proven false not only through our regular movements through Amarr but also by our escorting Brother Joshua on his travels and our involvement in the assault on Minmatar-occupied Providence. * The claim by Jasmine that Brother Joshua had somehow clone-jumped through an SF camp in the Kor-Azor system - proven false by the fact that thousands of people without access to cloning technology accompanied him and also arrived safely at their destination. * The claim by Jasmine that TES Ark Imperial (Archon class) had only contributed to the assault on Minmatar-occupied Providence by sitting within a starbase's shields and deploying its fighters remotely - proven false by the fact that such a thing is not possible. In fact, TES Ark Imperial saw action on the front lines in that campaign, both sustaining damage and inflicting damage on the enemy using drones (as well as fighters) * The claim by Jasmine that PIE Inc. struggled to put more than three pilots in space at a time - proven false not only by the subsequent holographic evidence presented to this forum but also by our involvement in operations since then. * The claim by Jasmine that SF post "war diaries" for all of their wars - proven false by the absence of a diary for some of their wars. Need I go on? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.24 14:01:00 - [197] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Evanda Char Think what you like Jasmine, but every shot of ours is as real as yours. Yes we heard about your "vigils" and public expressions of mutual respect at the parade for the worm-emperor. But your business is your own of course - you have no need to justify your "worth" to me. You didn't hear well, then, because there weren't any. But yes, we chose not to interrupt a vigil for a dead man. Where the Amarr do not affect my people, they are welcome to their rites and rituals. We have no eye for conquest - we simply want our people free, and that is the message we chose to send. We have a purpose above and beyond merely impacting the wallets of our enemies, and every soul set free is our result. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:34:00 - [198] Originally by: Rodj Blake Need I go on? Don't let me stop you making a fool of yourself Star Fraction is recruiting
Khavi Vetali Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 17:08:00 - [199] Originally by: Evanda Char We have a purpose above and beyond merely impacting the wallets of our enemies, and every soul set free is our result. I would think that you would know better. If you are implying that that is our singular purpose perhaps you should open your eyes and try setting your perceptions "free." If that is not your implication...carry on. Quote: Tyger! Tyger! burning bright; In the forests of the night, What immortal hand or eye; Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 18:00:00 - [200] Originally by: Rodj Blake Nobody from any of those three groups has provided evidence of a single overlap of substantive policies. Simply false. I dealt with the issues at length early on in this discussion thread. There are points of overlap above and beyond opposition to the Amarrian regime and points of difference. I am not, however, going over this ground yet again when I have addressed it in detail already. I do not intend to comment any further. This thread has degenerated into undignified prattle. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal

Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.25 10:02:00 - [201] Whilst I agree with The Cosmopolite regarding the degeneration of this thread, I do not agree with his analysis of the overlap between the policies of the SF and their allies. As I have already pointed out, it may well be the case that SF and U'K approve of the concept of personal responsibility for example, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who will publicly disapprove of such a thing. As such, such an overlap is meaningless because it's an overlap not only between SF and their allies but also with 99% of the rest of humanity including their enemies in the Empire. The other supposed areas of overlap also fall into this category. When it comes to the fundamental causes that the different anti-Amarrian groups support, however, there are substantive differences between them. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Davlos Caldari Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.29 09:15:00 - [202] Originally by: Khavi Vetali I would think that you would know better. If you are implying that that is our singular purpose perhaps you should open your eyes and try setting your perceptions "free." If that is not your implication...carry on. What you say is what has been repeated and paraphrased by your superiors countless of times with the pretense of 'opening your eyes' and 'freedom'. But that cannot be faulted with you, Vetali. You now belong to an organization that uses most of its members as cogs in the machine for the boosting of the egos of your leader(s) and directors. By proclaiming yourself free in perceptions by joining such an organization and adopting its meme, you have, yourself, trapped yourself in your own enclosure. An organization that fails to respect its enemies is one unworthy of respect. An organization that commits mistakes, fails to admit them and fails to apologize for them fails in integrity. An organization that announces itself the liberator of memes and spreads its own meme about its members that have little or no understanding of the intellectual fad behind it is hollow and has carried on through its strength in ISK. With little understanding of how its previous opposition could be defeated, it clocked up a better kill/loss ratio and spun a victory for itself, left the vicinity and let the opposition reoccupy the area. That's no victory. Your time is better served elsewhere. ---------------
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:33:00 - [203] So Electus Matari is the latest home for the seething remnants of the Kimotoro Directive now is it? Nice to know that your quest for a sympathetic ear takes you to very strange places - once a tool of State nationalist militia propped up by Amarrian fleet intervention and now an enlightened anti slavery campaigner - quite the ideological turnaround you have yourself there. Quote: You now belong to an organization that uses most of its members as cogs in the machine for the boosting of the egos of your leader(s) and directors. And you a former self-declared state auxillary "policeman" dare lecture a free captain about being a "cog in the machine" - you have never understood the least part of fraction ideology davlos and that you consider yourself capable of holding forth on the subject impresses not in the slightest. Quote: By proclaiming yourself free in perceptions by joining such an organization and adopting its meme, you have, yourself, trapped yourself in your own enclosure. By proclaiming such nonsense you have wrapped yourself in the same cloak of mediocrity you've been clinging too as a security blanket since Mito. You seem to believe that the fraction considers all memes are regressive and we can exist beyond the concept of shared ideas. Next I imagine you'll parrot the Amarrian saw that since we're anarcho capitialists we shouldn't have gang leaders or unified target calling and we're hypocrits because we cooperate. Really this is tired old rhetoric that we've doused from your lips a dozen times before. Must you insist on dragging Electus Matari into your feud now? Quote: An organization that fails to respect its enemies is one unworthy of respect. This is because we didn't respect you? You who crouched in the mito docks while other braver men fought and battled for the loyalist cause? We respected some opponents Davlos - we respected some very much actually and considered them capable and dangerous. But you are right - we never did respect you in the slightest - I imagine that must still sting. But there is a more profound point here beyond your personal experience. You say that an organisation must respect its foes? Why? Simply because they are "foes?" You basically want respect handed out like welfare bonds to the needy whereas I believe respect must be earned. All our enemies who have earned respect are respected. Those who have earned nothing but our derision are derided. Do you honestly think your mewling complaints are going to earn you respect at this point? If you hate us come and fight us Davlos - teach us to respect you. But I assure you continuing your galnet-only feud from behind the doors of yet another 3rd party organisation is going to do nothing to make us think of you in kinder terms. Quote: An organization that announces itself the liberator of memes and spreads its own meme about its members that have little or no understanding of the intellectual fad behind it is hollow and has carried on through its strength in ISK. You really are bitter about this aren't you? The Meme's we fight are regressive ones - like the nationalist basis of the Kimotoro Directive alliance we destroyed as you hunkered down in the ruins Davlos. Are you believing that Electus Matari with you inside would fare any better now? Is this your pitch for round two and a chance to erase your past failure? Quote: With little understanding of how its previous opposition could be defeated, it clocked up a better kill/loss ratio and spun a victory for itself, left the vicinity and let the opposition reoccupy the area. Yet somehow the ideal of nationalist invulnerability doesn't look quite as shiney as it did a year ago does it Davlos. I see a lot of fear on the faces of state loyalist organisations. A lot of nervous shuffling about .. Quote: Your time is better served elsewhere. Whereas I confess you are in the perfect place for a man of your limited talents. Star Fraction is recruiting
Davlos Caldari Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.29 11:42:00 - [204] You will find, Constantine, that for my departure from the nullsec arena, we may actually agree on something - I've seen the sights of any capsuleer would've dreamt of gazing upon: Fleet engagements, titans, doomsday weapon activations, capitals bashing against each other, and have tired of them. I took leave of my Family on positive terms and found a home in Electus Matari. But for what reasons, I'm afraid they shall remain personal. However, despite the many months, Constantine, you still seem capable of clinging on to the past and never seeming to let them go, still adept at sidestepping the main points at hand and erecting fresh legions of strawmen. For that, you certainly deserve a medal for Predictability of Apparent Debate. I bid you good fortune in your neverending search for relevance. ---------------
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:28:00 - [205] It is not a common experience that I find myself in agreement (more or less) with a pilot of the Electus Matari. It is so rare in fact, that I will have to comment on it. Originally by: Davlos An organization that fails to respect its enemies is one unworthy of respect. I used to have exactly the opinion you're voicing in the above statement. The PIE/SF debacle a few months ago (when I was still PIE) has taught me that this is not the "entire" truth. In Star Fraction there are many pilots whose behavior both in space and "out of it" is honorable and thus worthy of respect. In my own expereince names such as Cosmopolite the Orator, Upstanding Sable Schroedinger (I keep spelling the name wrong) and Razor Jaxx the Fighter springs to mind. I'm sure there are several others. Then of course you have people such as Little Jasmine Constantine. I think I'll leave it up to you to form your own opinion. Originally by: Davlos An organization that announces itself the liberator of memes I must admit that this is somewhat confusing to me. A few posts up in this thread I enquired as to how Star Fraction could maintain friendships with both U'K and Revans Sani Sabik imitation having one referring to the other as "monkeys". The reply was the the "interaction between third parties" was none of Star Fractions business. Yet Star Fraction seem content to fight the Amarr loyalists on the ground that we force our ideals on others - but wouldn't this constitute "interaction between third parties"? Mr Cosmopolite (when he answered) stated that he had no further interest in this discussion and out of respect for him I refrained from pushing the subject. Seing that several other SF pilots has shown more interest than he, perhaps some of those would feel more inclined to answer? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:46:00 - [206] Originally by: Davlos You will find, Constantine, that for my departure from the nullsec arena, we may actually agree on something - I've seen the sights of any capsuleer would've dreamt of gazing upon: Fleet engagements, titans, doomsday weapon activations, capitals bashing against each other, and have tired of them. I don't think we will agree since I always considered your move to nullsec to be another way for you to hide from your enemies. Delve and fountain are very safe places for those on good terms with band of brothers. I wonder if you are tired of the tedium if anything. Quote: I took leave of my Family on positive terms and found a home in Electus Matari. But for what reasons, I'm afraid they shall remain personal. I don't really care what your reasons are Davlos but I encourage you to continue verbally "attacking" Star Fraction from within the ranks of Electus Matari. Just as you did from within the ranks of Kimotoro Directive last summer it will be interesting to see what the ultimate consquences are. Quote: However, despite the many months, Constantine, you still seem capable of clinging on to the past and never seeming to let them go, still adept at sidestepping the main points at hand and erecting fresh legions of strawmen. For that, you certainly deserve a medal for Predictability of Apparent Debate. Boldly spoken for a man who has never gotten past Mito Davlos. Star Fraction is recruiting
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:47:00 - [207] You must have a lot of "stamina" for keep trying your way with this thread after several months. As you insist on bringing the Sani Sabik into discussions without having the slightest idea of our ideology and neither the mind to comprehend our books, I find it very unlikely that any words spoken will help to illuminate your sub-developed mind. But consider that I'm in a good mood and will indulge you some play. To start discussing contrasts of ideologies between Sani Sabik and SF you need to understand clearly the concepts of Genetics and Memes. Oh, hurting your cells already... my apologies as I know that you are unable to proceed right here but I'll go on in hope that some other intelligent being will be able to produce an interesting counter rhetoric to amuse me. To your question: The relationship between genetic and memetic codes is what brings our alliances to a solid relationship. One can construct rather detailed model for cognitive consciousness in terms of the memetic code. Memes and genes correspond to two levels in the hierarchy of conscious intelligence and genetic programs could be perhaps seen as subprograms called by the higher level memetic programs. One could even see higher level life as symbiosis of memes and genes. Now, if this isn't clear considering that Sani Sabik endorses and has one of the main tenets related to Eugenic programs, I believe your only alternative is to go back to low level rhetoric. Or to keep believing that the "hate" for "Amarr Empire" is what drives us... I pitty your self delusion. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 13:06:00 - [208] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus It is not a common experience that I find myself in agreement (more or less) with a pilot of the Electus Matari. It is so rare in fact, that I will have to comment on it. Whereas ironically I have found that PIE and Electus Matari have an awful lot in common from my observations over the past months. You are both nationalists devoted to maintaining the status quo, you both respect each other as foes and enjoy polite chit chat in local. Both sides enjoy polite little jousts you publicise as wars and both are quick to support each other publicly when threatened by anarchists and nere-do-wells beyond your reenactment society cliques. You are united of course by your hatred for Star Fraction expressed in channels local and private and we track the corrospondence between your leaders with interest. But really, this serves only to prove the point the Fraction makes at the core of its ideology - nationalism is a trap and even the faux wars between nationalist entities serve only as a safety valve for capsuleers desiring to "play at war" go make believe they are actually fighting. PIE and Electus Matari are two sides of a coin - you are almost completely alike and this is why a person like davlos can so easily switch from "oppressive would be state tyrant" to "starry-eyed freedom fighter" lauding the respect and honour of his slaver foes. I know you don't like to hear this but from a Fraction perspective the Amarrian and Republican loyalists are virtually inseparable. The matari will never be free while they ah led by a collaborator like Midular and bowed to submission to nationalist hierarchy and the ancient memetics of imperialism. You are playmates caught in codependence and mutual need - PIE need to "play" at being slavers and march around making believe they expand the empire. EM need to "play" at opposing this evil and staging mock duels at gates between agreed holidays and mutual backslapping. Its a hard truth I grant you. But it is a truth. And though you will howl and deny the words I speak here (for to do otherwise would admit terrible failings in your ambition and imagination) you know in your hearts my words cut deep and I genuinely pity you that. Be easy though nationalists (amarrian and republican alike) maybe the Star Fraction is simply a children's tale told by stern planetbound patriarchs to keep you tucked up in bed at night. If you close your eyes really tight it may be possible to imagine we don't exist and will never come for you. Go ahead and give it a try. It really is all you've got. Star Fraction is recruiting
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:52:00 - [209] Edited by: Ituralde on 29/07/2007 19:52:27 Are you really trying to get us to declare war on Electus Matari, Davlos? Remember, anything you say against us does reflect on the organization you represent. A lot of us have rather mixed feelings about a semi-nationalist organization who - while fighting Amarrians, still prop up another nationalist entity and additionally essentially disappeared from the scene as soon as we began our own attack against their enemies. A lot of us would rather never see that war come to pass. Myself included. Please, don't try to tip the scales. You know how Star Fraction has historically responded to Galnet side-sniping. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.29 20:39:00 - [210] Quote: Please, don't try to tip the scales. You know how Star Fraction has historically responded to Galnet side-sniping. I'd have thought the freedom of speech exercised by a capsuleer pilot such as Davlos would be something the Star Fraction would embrace given their quest for "free capsuleer identity" and "evolution". To support the freedom of the mind the Star Fraction extols yet deny those that exercise same freedom the right to do so without threat and attempted intimidation appears quite hypocritical. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP'S BLOG



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