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Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.04 10:50:00 - [1] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/04/2007 11:05:38 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/04/2007 11:04:58 The great Amarr Empire was founded to cultivate the spirit of man. To do so the enemies of the outside had to be defeated and the enemies of the inside controlled. - The Scriptures, Book I. Today our Empire faces three sets of ideologically motivated enemies. Who are these enemies and why do they hate the Empire you may ask. The first set is the Minmatar terrorists. Although ideologically they are the most varied of the three groups, they are bound together by a desire to see their "brothers" in the Empire freed. To date, they have shown little or no interest in the affairs of the Caldari State or the Gallente Federation. The second group is the Bloodfriends. This motley collection of assorted Sani Sabik cultists would dearly love to see the Empire fall. One of the more active of these is the Bloodveil cult. Their stated aims include the hegemony of their own religious beliefs, the creation of a single government across the cluster, all military power concentrated into one body and the elimination of poverty through the extermination of the poor. These aims would seem to be broadly typical of the various Bloodfriend sects. Lastly we have the anarchists of the Star Fraction. Some of their core beliefs were recently stated by Tatsue Nuko. They believe that religious freedom is important, that government is anathema to personal liberty, that military force is an obsolete concept, and that the empowerment of the poor is desirable (although it's unclear how they will achieve any of this). The more alert amongst you will have noted that the long-term political ambitions of the members of this unholy trinity, this troika of terror, this axis of evil are completely at odds with the aims of the other members. The Star Fraction and Bloodveil in particular appear to have long-term aims that are diametrically opposed. And yet, they co-operate with each other. We recently saw Star Fraction vessels actively involved in the doomed defence of the Karishal's Folly outpost. We have had admissions from Star Fraction that they co-operate with Bloodveil. Terrorists from the Fimbulwinter alliance have offered public support to both the Bloodveil and Star Fraction. Representatives from all three groups are widely believed to have attended business and social functions together. So what is it that unites these three groups? Where is their common ground? The answer is obvious. They are united in their jealousy and hatred of the Amarr Empire. They are envious of our traditions and our way of life. They see the wealth of the Empire and want it for themselves. They mock our Scriptures not because they believe them to be false, but because they realise that they are true and that the truth is that they are inferior beings. They crave conflict with their betters in the hope that it will validate their existence. Truly, it is a compliment to the strength of the Empire that they are forced to put aside such strongly held ideological beliefs in order to work together. Imagine for a moment that they succeeded in their aims and caused the destruction of the Empire (almost unimaginable, I know). What then? Clearly it would be just an instant before these rabid animals fell upon each other like wolves. But the Amarr Empire is a giant. And they are but ants. The enemies of the outside will be defeated. Their supporters on the inside will be controlled. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Sable Schroedinger Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.04 11:14:00 - [2] Sable claps slowly Nicely executed trap. A+ Conclusion lacked style, punch or any degree of sting though. E- -------------------------------------------- Join Now
Hori To Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.04 11:56:00 - [3] release your slaves and you may keep your "wealth".
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.04 12:10:00 - [4] Edited by: zoolkhan on 04/04/2007 12:07:33 Originally by: Rodj Blake So what is it that unites these three groups? Where is their common ground? The answer is obvious. They are [..B.S. cutted...] Leave the answer to this questions to those who know. None of us wear brainwave implants, you have at best the competence to make speculations and assumptions. But a clue and confirmed knowledge you have not. - each individual in this 'troika of evil' has personal motives: a) loyalty towards the tribe, clan or alliance, or just the commanding officer (military discipline should be known even to you rodj) b) revenge c) relatives in amarr captivity - there is no system behind occasional joint operations (karishals defiance was not even a joint op, it was a few pilots coming to help inofficial and w/o blessing of SF leadership as far i know would the blessing have been more official, we would probably have not lost the battle but now i am speculating) - ushra'khan has never cooperated with the blood cultists, to us that is just a different kind of slavery throwing us in the same kettle with them is dishonouring our good war-relationship. - it is clearly visible that the 'troika' is indeed three unrelated enemies of yours and maybe you should ask yourself the question how you could let this happen? foes as well as friends are 'made' - and since you like to compare us with furious beasts... beasts do not attack for no reason. they do it for a living or for survival, but never for fun like you slavers do on my homeplanet.. Now let's see what else your propaganda department is able to deliver. U'K recruit! ..we come for our people..
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.04 12:24:00 - [5] Originally by: Hori To release your slaves and you may keep your "wealth". The Amarr empire will not, especially under threat, surrender those under its spiritual protection. As for the Troika of Terror. I suppose that they're operating under the flawed "Enemy of my Enemy..." doctrine. Since the Amarr empire is the most powerful, long-term and unified threat to their spiritually crass goals they just decided to try to stop us first before we become unstoppable (although in the end they will discover that the Amarr empire has been unstoppable, in the long term, ever since the first emperor reunited his empire after defeating Molok). ...in any case none of them seem to be all that particular about their allies. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.04 12:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel we become unstoppable Join the fighting and then you can use the word "we" in this context. Star Fraction is recruiting
Ashturi Nagano Mantigen Quanta	Posted - 2007.04.04 12:34:00 - [7] Normally, I ridicule you. Normally, I believe that you are an irrational being whose hate-filled heart deserves nothing more than to die in a quiet place, and give you rest. Normally, I disagree...but this time, I cannot. I cannot disagree, but I can understand the other side...to a point. I do not encourage slavery, but I understand it as a business practice. This makes sense to me, in a limited form. I DO believe that the slave system currently in place is inefficient, but you did not establish it for those purposes or, at least, it is not maintained for those purposes. However, while I do not condemn slavery, I understand the Mataris' rage at the continued captivity of their brethren. You would feel the same if someone took your mother, father, wife, or children and pressed them into slavery while, at the same time, filling their heads with what you consider to be religious nonsense and drivel. The Sani Sabik, however, are what many in the universe would label "nutjobs." I am not one of these, as I do not usually use such vulgar and coarse language. There is nothing that can be said of them that has not already been said, and they have no motivation other than complete and utter devotion to the woman called Nefaris. Her will alone has caused more deaths than any one person should ever be made responsible for. But again, one must consider that at least she (and therefore, the Sani Sabik) has a motivation: Utter religious conviction stronger even than your own. But it is the last group that confuses me the most. They have no quarrel with you besides their stated aims of "freespace" (a contemptible idea if I ever I have heard one. History is rife with such fools). Not only this, but as you have mentioned, their stated belief (at least as Tatsue Nuko understands it) is that "Military force is a construct of obsolete and regressive caste systems." This totally negates their declaration of war on you, as their ideas of "enlightened self-interest" dictate that they bother noone. Only defensive measures should be taken, according to their beliefs. And yet, they have played the aggressor in several key engagements. After all, forcing the idea of enlightened self-interest and freespace seem to be ideals that can only be reached if one wishes it. One could wish that the Amarr would accept some of these ideals, but that seems a far-fetched idea. This does not mean that they cannot change, but I hope that both sides can see reason. Failing that, I hope that the conflict benefits my bottom line. Good luck to both sides.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.04 12:47:00 - [8] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel we become unstoppable Join the fighting and then you can use the word "we" in this context. The empire is one, has always been one and will always be one. One emperor, one empire, one purpose. As for fighting. You're, as always, free to wardec. Otherwise I'll just see you in 0.0/low-sec. So far I havn't exactly been able to find you in anything even resembling numbers that's suitable for a small corp and friends. Which is quite sad. Either it's SF flying around in largish packs, or it's pod-pilot pirate spacetrash that runs for the nearest station as soon as they catch a whiff of anything more powerful than a lone Osprey. ((I remember the ol' glorydays in insmother where you could get a decent 3-5vs3-5 against the local gloryhounds. Not "25 vs nothing-more-than 15..at most" gankpacks)) ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.04 13:51:00 - [9] Lady Revan Neferis Thrice Illustrious Sovereign of Bloodveil Proud Member of The Unholy Trinity In bed with the most beautiful gallentean of the "Troika of Terror" Thanks for this post added the "touch" to my Titles I love it. "Power destroys the ones who dont have it"
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.04 13:54:00 - [10] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/04/2007 13:51:01 Originally by: zoolkhan (karishals defiance was not even a joint op, it was a few pilots coming to help inofficial and w/o blessing of SF leadership as far i know would the blessing have been more official, we would probably have not lost the battle but now i am speculating) That was my point. Informal co-operation between groups with different ideological viewpoints because of their shared hatred of all that is good and proper. Quote: - ushra'khan has never cooperated with the blood cultists, to us that is just a different kind of slavery throwing us in the same kettle with them is dishonouring our good war-relationship. Ushra'Khan (and also Electus Matari) may indeed not be sufficiently desperate yet to associate themselves with Bloodveil, but I'm sure that you would agree that other Minmatar insurgent groups are. The Minmatar insurgency as a whole can therefore be said to co-operate with Bloodveil. But remember also that you co-operate with SF and SF co-operates with Bloodveil. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Hori To Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.04.04 14:56:00 - [11] Edited by: Hori To on 04/04/2007 14:52:24 U'K are no enemies and haters of what is "good and proper". We hate you. Well, at least I do.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.04 15:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Ashturi Nagano This totally negates their declaration of war on you, as their ideas of "enlightened self-interest" dictate that they bother noone. Incorrect. We will "bother" at our sole discretion those that are a threat to our future (and, incidentally, the future that is the birthright to humanity as a whole). Most people will have no problem staying untouched, though. It's just that someone needs to cull the imperialist populations, since an imperialist organization by it's nature is a long-term threat to us. Why people keep interpreting our ideas as some kind of plushy campfire huggling peace choir of redardation I'll never understand...
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.04 15:33:00 - [13] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/04/2007 15:29:48 Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Incorrect. We will "bother" at our sole discretion those that are a threat to our future (and, incidentally, the future that is the birthright to humanity as a whole). Most people will have no problem staying untouched, though. It's just that someone needs to cull the imperialist populations, since an imperialist organization by it's nature is a long-term threat to us. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't it be prudent to consider an organisation whose stated aims include religious intolerance, mass execution of every individual deemed unnecessary, and the formation of a giant state also be a threat to your future? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Sable Schroedinger Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.04 15:49:00 - [14] put the horse down. step away from the horse. (now we can see why you didn't like that copy of Altar Boyz 2) -------------------------------------------- Join Now
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.04 16:11:00 - [15] Originally by: Sable Schroedinger put the horse down. step away from the horse. (now we can see why you didn't like that copy of Altar Boyz 2) I take it that you don't like having your hypocrisy exposed to the world then? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.04 16:29:00 - [16] Originally by: Rodj Blake I take it that you don't like having your hypocrisy exposed to the world then? Given that your own exposition shows very clearly that there is no hypocrisy involved in the present arrangements between the Sani Sabik alliance and the Star Fraction, I think that is a remarkably silly question. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.04 16:38:00 - [17] Brother Rodj, I fear our surprise at the cooperation between seemingly opposed parties is a partly the result of a cultural clash. Everyone knows that being Amarr is about the means. A good Amarrian would not lie even if his lying would help expand the Empire. We are stubborn, headstrong and slow to change. We are not opportunists. Members of the 'Troika of Terror' are concerned with goals, not with means. If speaking a lie would liberate all the Matari slaves, every Matari terrorist would be doing so tomorrow. Star Fraction has no qualms about using organized military force if they think it will help them achieve a transhuman society. If Revan were offered the position of Empress in exchange for adapting a few Sani Sabik principles, she would do so immediately. Our enemies may be friends today, but at war tomorrow: they are opportunists. You are quite right about the fact that they have a common goal. For enlightened people like ourselves its just baffling to see people abandoning their principles in pursuit of that goal. Obviously the Troika of Terror is gifted with wealth, skill and intelligence, but are severy lacking in morality. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.04 20:19:00 - [18] Well spoken. It is quite clear that these beings are devoted to the cult of the self. They have become empty husks, ever seeking to fill themselves, forever unable to do so. Some seek bloodshed while others pain and cruelty. More are in it for mere personal gains. All of these are based in their greed. Sad, is it not?
Kabajashi San Minmatar	Posted - 2007.04.04 23:04:00 - [19] This is a post I like very much. Mostly because it shows the complete ignorance the Amarr are living in. I mean you don't even care for the goals of your opponents. You just see they are all fighting against you - ergo they are connected. They fight you - ergo they hate you. You fight them - ergo you are are good cause you fight the haters. I mean Ignorance is a bliss but you have gone far beyond that. Living in your own little world with your own little idol and your own little standards. You really want to know why you so many so different people are fighting against you? Well start with your attitude. But having some time to kill I will sit down and explain to you. Not that I see any chance that you might actually listen and understand but who knows maybe at least you'd spare us from further "How to explain the World as an Amarr"-Threads. So ready to go, my dear? Lets start with the first group you named - the Matari. Well, you killed thousands of our ancestors, you kipnapped whole clans, you are still torturing our relatives and enslaving our brothers. Hard to understand why we fight you? Guess not, but still there is a basic misunderstanding I think. To put it simple: We don't hate you. At least most of us I think. Some of us really have harsh feelings about you raiding our planets, they do have a point there I guess. But essentially we are not fighting against Amarr, we are fighting FOR our brothers. Don't know if you can see the difference here but let me tell you that there is one. The second group you named are the Blooders. Not much I can say about them. I don't have enough of these red and blue pills to follow their minds in the fantastic voyage towards insanity. Thirdly, Star Fraction. I personally don't share much of their ideals as I believe the tribe is my home. Yet there is indeed one point that we share - the believe in individual freedom. So it is your total neglection of such a basic value that brngs us on the same frontline against you. Would the fact that the common sense outside your little fairytale world regards this as a basic to every society make you think about it? Didn't think so. Anyways at least see they don't hate you for what you are but fight you because of the threat you pose to others. So what is the essence of all this? I'd say that you will never live in peace as long as you are not willing to accept the liberty of others. You'd probably say something else. Ignorance is a bliss.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 07:28:00 - [20] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 07:25:29 Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Rodj Blake I take it that you don't like having your hypocrisy exposed to the world then? Given that your own exposition shows very clearly that there is no hypocrisy involved in the present arrangements between the Sani Sabik alliance and the Star Fraction, I think that is a remarkably silly question. The Cosmopolite If you say that there's no hypocrisy in declaring war on an organisation because of it's imperialist philosophy whilst allied with an organisation devoted to a more centralised, more brutal form of imperialism, then I guess that we'll have to take your word for it. Maybe you have a different definition of hypocrisy to me. In which case, I dare say that it's not hypocritical to for an alliance containing slavers to declare war on an organisation for it's policy of keeping slaves either. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 12:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Rodj Blake If you say that there's no hypocrisy in declaring war on an organisation because of it's imperialist philosophy whilst allied with an organisation devoted to a more centralised, more brutal form of imperialism, then I guess that we'll have to take your word for it. I have not said that. Once again you are putting words in my mouth and showing yourself to be a deceiver. Your attempts to paint us as hypocrites fail at every turn because you refuse to factor time and probability in to your assessment of our actions and how they mesh with our stated philosophy. Either that or you adopt a simpleton's approach of telescoping together all objectives whether they be short-, medium- or long-term and jumping up and down, pointing and hooting like the class clown who thinks he has discovered a new means of travelling faster-than-light while dozing through basic astrophysics. Our view is that the Amarrian Empire and its capsuleer lickspittles are a threat to our future in the present and will continue to be so unless we take action. We are therefore taking action. It is not our view that the Bloodveil cult is a threat to us and our future or likely to be such at any time in the foreseeable future. Furthermore, at this time, the interests of the two organisations coincide sufficiently that it is mutually beneficial for us to co-operate on certain matters. This is all perfectly consonant with our philosophy. There is no hypocrisy. The remainder of your remarks, amusing as they might be, are rendered moot if you can but understand this simple explanation. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 12:31:00 - [22] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 12:27:54 Originally by: The Cosmopolite Your attempts to paint us as hypocrites fail at every turn because you refuse to factor time and probability in to your assessment of our actions and how they mesh with our stated philosophy. Refusing to factor in time? Are you suggesting that it's just a matter of time before SF and the Bloodveil cult fall upon each other like hyenas? Refusing to factor in probability? Are you suggesting that your assessment of the situation is that it's acceptable to ally yourselves with your ideological opposites if their threat level is insignificant? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Kaox Krul Amarr lost misfits	Posted - 2007.04.05 12:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 12:27:54 Originally by: The Cosmopolite Your attempts to paint us as hypocrites fail at every turn because you refuse to factor time and probability in to your assessment of our actions and how they mesh with our stated philosophy. Refusing to factor in time? Are you suggesting that it's just a matter of time before SF and the Bloodveil cult fall upon each other like hyenas? Refusing to factor in probability? Are you suggesting that your assessment of the situation is that it's acceptable to ally yourselves with your ideological opposites if their threat level is insignificant? Rodj Blake you must be really terryfied of their association. You sound desperate man, like a broken record. Jezz Their CEOs love each other. They are Political friends since what, years ago mate. I mean, what's wrong with you, what's the point you're trying to achieve here other than looking like a fool?
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 12:43:00 - [24] Originally by: Kaox Krul Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 12:27:54 Originally by: The Cosmopolite Your attempts to paint us as hypocrites fail at every turn because you refuse to factor time and probability in to your assessment of our actions and how they mesh with our stated philosophy. Refusing to factor in time? Are you suggesting that it's just a matter of time before SF and the Bloodveil cult fall upon each other like hyenas? Refusing to factor in probability? Are you suggesting that your assessment of the situation is that it's acceptable to ally yourselves with your ideological opposites if their threat level is insignificant? Rodj Blake you must be really terryfied of their association. You sound desperate man, like a broken record. Jezz Their CEOs love each other. They are Political friends since what, years ago mate. I mean, what's wrong with you, what's the point you're trying to achieve here other than looking like a fool? Ideological incompability peon. ----------------------------------------------
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 12:50:00 - [25] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 12:50:02 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 12:49:34 Originally by: Kaox Krul Rodj Blake you must be really terryfied of their association. You sound desperate man, like a broken record. Jezz Their CEOs love each other. They are Political friends since what, years ago mate. I mean, what's wrong with you, what's the point you're trying to achieve here other than looking like a fool? And who are you again? And who is this Jezz? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:08:00 - [26] Edited by: Archbishop on 05/04/2007 13:05:54 An excellent summation of the axis of evil Admiral Blake. The fact Amarrians do not associate with those who have alternative ideology and method just because they may have a similar short term goal proves overwhelmingly the firm commitment and dedication of Amarr to its objectives and the fact we are not "hypocrites". That's the great thing about our holy Empire. When you look at us you don't need to wonder "where do they really stand on the issues?". We stand where we've always stood not just when it's convenient. Amarr Victor! Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:15:00 - [27] Originally by: Gaius Kador Ideological incompability peon. Let's talk a bit about ideological Incompatibility getting PIE for example, as I'm sure you can teach us a good lesson about it: Example 1, from PIE records: About Intaki Union: Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gaven claps slowly, visibly amused Thats the spirit. Warmongering Terrorism is a disease that should be wiped out of the galaxy like the rest of the Deciever's works. Gaven smiles I do hope God smiles on your 'crusade', Mr. Ricard, and that you kill those heretics you have placed into your sights. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Conclusion of first part: PIE declares Intaki Union Terrorists and Herectics. When confronted at Verisum wars by overwelminf forces, at some point the so " stable" ideologies somehow... changed. PIE and IU became allied against common enemies When confronted about his " Ideological incompatibility" here was the Master answer: Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/07/2006 13:08:05 Just because we declared war on you, it doesn't automatically follow that we give unconditional support to other people who declared war on you. I really don't need to show how your mouth does you more favor in this matter. Move along kid, you better concentrate on making a plan to overcome your weakness at space instead of your childish attemps to bring dissension between two Organizations that have solid political and "extra-political" benefits on co-operating. "Power destroys the ones who dont have it"
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:26:00 - [28] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 13:31:27 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 13:26:24 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 13:23:18 Originally by: Revan Neferis When confronted about his " Ideological incompatibility" here was the Master answer: Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/07/2006 13:08:05 Just because we declared war on you, it doesn't automatically follow that we give unconditional support to other people who declared war on you. I really don't need to show how your mouth does you more favor in this matter. Move along kid, you better concentrate on making a plan to overcome your weakness at space instead of your childish attemps to bring dissension between two Organizations that have solid political and "extra-political" benefits on co-operating. Close, but no Martini. You see, there's quite a difference between not supporting the enemies of one's enemies as I state in the quote, and co-operating with the enemies of one's enemies as your little cult and SF are doing. In other words, it doesn't automatically follow that declaring war on someone means that you're allied with their existing enemies, but it doesn't mean that such a scenario is impossible either. Tell me, just when did IU threaten the long-term objectives of PIE Inc or the wider Amarrian Empire? I do wonder just how big your database of old PIE quotes is though. You must be really obsessed with us. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Kaox Krul Amarr lost misfits	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:30:00 - [29] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 12:50:02 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 12:49:34 Originally by: Kaox Krul Rodj Blake you must be really terryfied of their association. You sound desperate man, like a broken record. Jezz Their CEOs love each other. They are Political friends since what, years ago mate. I mean, what's wrong with you, what's the point you're trying to achieve here other than looking like a fool? And who are you again? And who is this Jezz? My name is posted here , but it wouldn't suprise me if you can't read. Does it make harder for you to answer the questions, why you insist on being a fool at these boarders?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:35:00 - [30] Originally by: Kaox Krul snip For the well being of the thread and topic. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:37:00 - [31] Just do us all a favour, move along. Win your war at space. this is tiresome to us and the public as well. "Power destroys the ones who dont have it"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:40:00 - [32] Originally by: Revan Neferis Just do us all a favour, move along. Win your war at space. this is tiresome to us and the public as well.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 13:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Rodj Blake Refusing to factor in time? Are you suggesting that it's just a matter of time before SF and the Bloodveil cult fall upon each other like hyenas? No. Quote: Refusing to factor in probability? Are you suggesting that your assessment of the situation is that it's acceptable to ally yourselves with your ideological opposites if their threat level is insignificant? No. First of all, your characterisation of the Bloodveil cult as our ideological opposites is in my view flawed. There are points of Bloodveil philosophy we might agree with and some points we might not agree with. I suggest you study more carefully the two philosophies with a view to understanding them rather than trying to find points of apparent dissonance to construct your nit-picking arguments upon. Second, the issues of time and probability are intertwined and relate to the ideologies in question. I have stated my assessment based on those factors and my personal understanding of the respective ideologies of the Star Fraction and the Bloodveil. That assessment in no way implies or suggests the nonsense you have tried, once more, to place in my mouth. Finally, a word to Archbishop, you regularly pop up to unfavourably contrast PIE's 'consistency' with the views and actions of the Star Fraction. I have come to believe that this is a deliberate policy of telling lies or, to be moderately generous, twisting the facts. The Star Fraction has remained true to its founding ideology throughout its existence and has always acted in terms of that ideology. You may not understand it, or care to, but you are simply wrong when you imply that we are not consistent and that our actions cannot be understood with a little study and thought. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:00:00 - [34] Originally by: The Cosmopolite First of all, your characterisation of the Bloodveil cult as our ideological opposites is in my view flawed. There are points of Bloodveil philosophy we might agree with and some points we might not agree with. I suggest you study more carefully the two philosophies with a view to understanding them rather than trying to find points of apparent dissonance to construct your nit-picking arguments upon. I can assure that I make it a priority to carefully study the ideologies of a wide variety of organisations. I think that I have laid out the areas where SF and Bloodveil have opposite opinions by using the words of members of both. To date, I have not found a major overlap in the philosophies of both organisations except for their pathological hatred of the Amarr Empire. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us where these other convergences lie? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:09:00 - [35] Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/04/2007 14:06:26 Originally by: Rodj Blake I can assure that I make it a priority to carefully study the ideologies of a wide variety of organisations. I think that I have laid out the areas where SF and Bloodveil have opposite opinions by using the words of members of both. No, what you have done is first decide on your areas of interest, ask people questions about these areas, and the deduce a picture from those questions alone. Meaning that the multitude of superlatively relevant issues are overlooked. Because, to put it like this, of the questions you put towards us, I personally only care about one of them. The rest are areas where I (and the Star Fraction) has opinions of course, but they are not nearly as important nor of any immediate concern. So your sample used for your comparicon shows how genuine you really are in this, bogus little troll that you are, for you did not even care to properly investigate what issues we actually consider prioroties. Because, shock!, our priorities differ from yours! I know, I know, the universe can be puzzling and strange sometimes...
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:15:00 - [36] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 14:14:29 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 14:14:05 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 14:13:39 Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/04/2007 14:06:26 Originally by: Rodj Blake I can assure that I make it a priority to carefully study the ideologies of a wide variety of organisations. I think that I have laid out the areas where SF and Bloodveil have opposite opinions by using the words of members of both. No, what you have done is first decide on your areas of interest, ask people questions about these areas, and the deduce a picture from those questions alone. Meaning that the multitude of superlatively relevant issues are overlooked. Because, to put it like this, of the questions you put towards us, I personally only care about one of them. The rest are areas where I (and the Star Fraction) has opinions of course, but they are not nearly as important nor of any immediate concern. So your sample used for your comparicon shows how genuine you really are in this, bogus little troll that you are, for you did not even care to properly investigate what issues we actually consider prioroties. Because, shock!, our priorities differ from yours! I know, I know, the universe can be puzzling and strange sometimes... And here was me thinking that the end of all governmental authority and the decentralisation of military forces were key aims for the SF. Perhaps you could list the areas in which the philosophies of SF and Bloodveil overlap, apart from a hatred of all things Amarrian? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:30:00 - [37] Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/04/2007 14:30:00 Originally by: Rodj Blake And here was me thinking that the end of all governmental authority and the decentralisation of military forces were key aims for the SF. They are. But they're not the why and wherefore. They are consequences and they are means to something else. Edit: Okey, I'll give you a hint here - when fighting a war, a specific gate may be of key interest to take and hold. Not because the gate itself is (necessarily) anything special, but because it's context and the effects of holding it bestow some effect positive on the larger outcome of the war. Elimination of governments is not the goal of our revolution. It might just be a stepping stone, however. Elimination of the military/civilian caste system is not the goal of our revolution. It might just be a stepping stone, however. Get it? Originally by: Rodj Blake Perhaps you could list the areas in which the philosophies of SF and Bloodveil overlap, apart from a hatred of all things Amarrian? While I believe in assisting the weak, that is only when the value offered me by that weak individual is of greater value to me than my efforts. Your weak mind has nothing to offer, though, so I shan't spend the time nor effort. I'll invite you to look in the nuances though. Oh, and to make a proper study of us, not a lazy 4-question survey where the ignorant amarrian selected the questions. As I said in my reply to those questions: it's all been said to you before, personally and to your peers, in multiple announcements, debates and treatises. If you do not have the brain cycles to digest them, then you are too weak to waste effort on.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:32:00 - [38] Originally by: Rodj Blake I can assure that I make it a priority to carefully study the ideologies of a wide variety of organisations. I think that I have laid out the areas where SF and Bloodveil have opposite opinions by using the words of members of both. In fact, all you have actually done is link to statements by Lady Revan and my comrade Tatsue Nuko and make the leap of asserting that they are in direct contradiction to one another. I would observe that, in particular, you are not paying sufficiently close attention to the remarks of Lady Revan. Quote: To date, I have not found a major overlap in the philosophies of both organisations except for their pathological hatred of the Amarr Empire. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us where these other convergences lie? I will do so. Originally by: "Lady Revan" Bloodveil endorses the free will of each individual to fight for its right to ascend. At the end, the will of the strong shall prevail. May a slave fight his Master and suceed, or May a Master achieve dominance over a slave, Bloodveil will always support the most Fit. The Star Fraction would endorse that view. Originally by: "Lady Revan" Yes, the Cult of the Order Bloodveil is against all what you call " Loyalist Authorities". Why? Because we create our own morality and ethics. Cultists are admittedly selfish beings, all humans are. The Will To Freedom and Power is a singular philosophy which drives us. The Star Fraction would endorse that view and, to anticipate you, consider it to have far wider application than the Amarrian Empire and, for the record, so it has transpired in Bloodveil and Star Fraction activities. Originally by: "Lady Revan I always had this feeling that there were certain barriers and obstacles which didn't necessarily have to be there. I've always disliked pre-concepts, and I see the generally accepted views of "reality" as the greatest stupidity of all. And I laugh in its face. It only has power because everyone, more or less, agrees with it. There is no good and no evil. There is every human assuming its rightfull place among the stars. The Star Fraction would support that conclusion. Originally by: "Lady Revan" We give no respect for Concord rules and we will engage pilots which are not set as positive alligned with our Organization. The Star Fraction commends the lack of respect for CONCORD and recognises that the Sani Sabik organisation has the sovereignty to choose its targets as it wishes. Originally by: "Lady Revan" No. Bloodveil recognises the Elite of all races, fit to their development and despises the weak of all races, equally. While rather less passionate as to disregard for those that allow themselves to be weak, the Star Fraction clearly would have no difficulty with a view that recognises that all, no matter their origin, are capable of development. Originally by: "Lady Revan" In essence The Sani Sabik is a call to Responsibility. You succeed or you're not worth the gift of life. The Star Fration has long emphasised personal responsibility and success as a key element of its philosophy. In closing, there are differences in emphasis between our respective ideologies, differences of assessment of long-range objectives and likely outcomes and differences of method and implementation. This is true. However, the differences are not so great as some would like to paint them and the agreements exist despite the assertions of some who deliberately ignore them. Moreover, someone who is versed in Scripture should know quite well that a simplistic, face-value interpretation of a theological text is not by any means always the true one. I have my own view on the meaning of the verses of the Apocrypha that Lady Revan quotes. I quite understand that it is 'convenient' for propaganda purposes for the paramilitary Blake to adopt an unthinking regurgitation policy of adducing meaning from the text but I don't agree with it. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:41:00 - [39] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/04/2007 14:30:00 Originally by: Rodj Blake And here was me thinking that the end of all governmental authority and the decentralisation of military forces were key aims for the SF. They are. But they're not the why and wherefore. They are consequences and they are means to something else. Edit: Okey, I'll give you a hint here - when fighting a war, a specific gate may be of key interest to take and hold. Not because the gate itself is (necessarily) anything special, but because it's context and the effects of holding it bestow some effect positive on the larger outcome of the war. Elimination of governments is not the goal of our revolution. It might just be a stepping stone, however. Elimination of the military/civilian caste system is not the goal of our revolution. It might just be a stepping stone, however. Get it? Thank you the explanation. Perhaps you would care to explain just what the goal of your planned revolution is, and how it will be achieved by co-operating with a group dedicated to setting up a pan-racial government? Quote: Originally by: Rodj Blake Perhaps you could list the areas in which the philosophies of SF and Bloodveil overlap, apart from a hatred of all things Amarrian? While I believe in assisting the weak, that is only when the value offered me by that weak individual is of greater value to me than my efforts. Your weak mind has nothing to offer, though, so I shan't spend the time nor effort. I'll invite you to look in the nuances though. Oh, and to make a proper study of us, not a lazy 4-question survey where the ignorant amarrian selected the questions. As I said in my reply to those questions: it's all been said to you before, personally and to your peers, in multiple announcements, debates and treatises. If you do not have the brain cycles to digest them, then you are too weak to waste effort on. Believe me when I say that I have read them. I still fail to see any ideological overlap between posthumanism and bloodism. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:47:00 - [40] Originally by: Rodj Blake Thank you the explanation. Perhaps you would care to explain just what the goal of your planned revolution is, and how it will be achieved by co-operating with a group dedicated to setting up a pan-racial government? The goal of the revolution is to rid ourselves of all influences trying to halt the development and evolution into a posthuman existance. Co-operating with a group "dedicated" to setting up a pan-racial government aids this goal since, as the Cosmopolite had mercy on you and displayed, the differences are smaller than you would have them be, and those differences cause no issue at this time nor do we anticipate they will for the foreseeable future. To put it like this: an imperialist pigdog is equally dead no matter whether it was Star Fraction or Sani Sabik that pulled the trigger. Originally by: Rodj Blake I still fail to see any ideological overlap between posthumanism and bloodism. Then your mental faculties might be lacking and I suspect you'll fall by the wayside as the revolution continues.

Sable Schroedinger Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:57:00 - [41] Well, to bring things closer to home, can you please explain to me the overlap between IU who fight for Intaki independence and a right to self rule and Amarrian paramilitaries who fight to defend and promote the aims of the Amarrian Empire û whose goals include bring all beings under the control of God through his chosen people, the Amar? Are they not, in the long term, diametrically apposed? Have you not, in the short term, put aside your ideological differences, committed hypocrisy if you will, in order to achieve your goals, based solely on your shared hatred of the Gallente Federation? Because, from the above posts, I can only conclude that SF and bloodveil have more in common than PIE and UI, and therefore your accusations miss the mark by some degree. -------------------------------------------- Join Now
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 14:58:00 - [42] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko To put it like this: an imperialist pigdog is equally dead no matter whether it was Star Fraction or Sani Sabik that pulled the trigger. But my whole point is that the Bloodveil are imperialistic pigdogs. More so than us, in fact. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:09:00 - [43] Rodj, what persuades you, the man that after a lot of alleged study fails utterly in understanding us, is a better authority than we are at understanding Sani Sabik, who you stress time and again we have co-operations with? I mean, it's cute when you are trying to separate organizations through sowing spite between them, but let's just say that your understanding of the Sani Sabik differs slightly from mine, and paired with your complete lack of comprehension of us, I believe it suffices to say that you're not an authority. You are entitled to your opinion. You are wrong. No amount of 4-piece questionnaires or creative interpretations are ever going to set you right.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:10:00 - [44] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 15:07:24 Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: "Lady Revan" Bloodveil endorses the free will of each individual to fight for its right to ascend. At the end, the will of the strong shall prevail. May a slave fight his Master and suceed, or May a Master achieve dominance over a slave, Bloodveil will always support the most Fit. The Star Fraction would endorse that view. So you now endorse the view that it was up to the Mamet 500 to fight for their freedom rather than have SF (which had slavers in it at the time) do it for them? Quote: Originally by: "Lady Revan" Yes, the Cult of the Order Bloodveil is against all what you call " Loyalist Authorities". Why? Because we create our own morality and ethics. Cultists are admittedly selfish beings, all humans are. The Will To Freedom and Power is a singular philosophy which drives us. The Star Fraction would endorse that view and, to anticipate you, consider it to have far wider application than the Amarrian Empire and, for the record, so it has transpired in Bloodveil and Star Fraction activities. I've already said that your common hatred of the Empire is a shared feature of your philosophies. Quote: Originally by: "Lady Revan I always had this feeling that there were certain barriers and obstacles which didn't necessarily have to be there. I've always disliked pre-concepts, and I see the generally accepted views of "reality" as the greatest stupidity of all. And I laugh in its face. It only has power because everyone, more or less, agrees with it. There is no good and no evil. There is every human assuming its rightfull place among the stars. The Star Fraction would support that conclusion. Whilst it is true that you both disapprove of accepted views of reality, it doesn't follow that you are both working with the same axioms. Quote: Originally by: "Lady Revan" We give no respect for Concord rules and we will engage pilots which are not set as positive alligned with our Organization. The Star Fraction commends the lack of respect for CONCORD and recognises that the Sani Sabik organisation has the sovereignty to choose its targets as it wishes. OK, I'll hand that one to you as an area of overlap. You are indeed both groups of pirates. Quote: Originally by: "Lady Revan" No. Bloodveil recognises the Elite of all races, fit to their development and despises the weak of all races, equally. While rather less passionate as to disregard for those that allow themselves to be weak, the Star Fraction clearly would have no difficulty with a view that recognises that all, no matter their origin, are capable of development. So you're saying that a society divided into "Elites" and despised weaklings is the same as one which promotes egalitarian development? Quote: Originally by: "Lady Revan" In essence The Sani Sabik is a call to Responsibility. You succeed or you're not worth the gift of life. The Star Fration has long emphasised personal responsibility and success as a key element of its philosophy. Ah, so the Star Fraction is for the compulsory euthanisation of the poor and weak after all, despite Tatsue's denial. Thanks for clearing that up. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:17:00 - [45] Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/04/2007 15:17:33 Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: The Cosmopolite The Star Fration has long emphasised personal responsibility and success as a key element of its philosophy. Ah, so the Star Fraction is for the compulsory euthanisation of the poor and weak after all, despite Tatsue's denial. Thanks for clearing that up. And the award for most creative application of purposeful miscomprehension goes toooo: Rodj! May we have an applause? If you utilize your neurons, you'll notice that what the comrade doctor is talking about here is "personal responsibility". Maker's incontinence, it's even in his own words! But maybe the difficulty lies in responding to the mans words, not to the words you want him to have spoken... To make it obvious: Everyone is responsible for themselves, and if they want success, they'll have to get there on their own effort because they have no right to demand anyone else's assistance.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:26:00 - [46] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 15:23:26 Originally by: Tatsue Nuko Edited by: Tatsue Nuko on 05/04/2007 15:17:33 Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: The Cosmopolite The Star Fration has long emphasised personal responsibility and success as a key element of its philosophy. Ah, so the Star Fraction is for the compulsory euthanisation of the poor and weak after all, despite Tatsue's denial. Thanks for clearing that up. And the award for most creative application of purposeful miscomprehension goes toooo: Rodj! May we have an applause? If you utilize your neurons, you'll notice that what the comrade doctor is talking about here is "personal responsibility". Maker's incontinence, it's even in his own words! But maybe the difficulty lies in responding to the mans words, not to the words you want him to have spoken... To make it obvious: Everyone is responsible for themselves, and if they want success, they'll have to get there on their own effort because they have no right to demand anyone else's assistance. Well done on removing context by deleting the Revan comment. Even I agree that personal responsibility is a good thing. In fact, I doubt that you'll find very many people at all who admit that they think that it's a bad thing. So as areas of overlap go, it's right up there with "we both believe that most planets rotate". Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Khavi Vetali Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:27:00 - [47] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko But maybe the difficulty lies in responding to the mans words, not to the words you want him to have spoken... I think that's the main problem with many of these arguments Especially in this amusing thread. Originally by: Itanis "Hello there mate, I'm dreadfully sorry, but I'm going to have to sodomize you with howitzers. Have a lovely day!"
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:48:00 - [48] Originally by: Rodj Blake So you now endorse the view that it was up to the Mamet 500 to fight for their freedom rather than have SF (which had slavers in it at the time) do it for them? We endorse the view that the Mamet 500 were entitled to fight for their freedom. The Star Fraction fought at that time against CVA expansionism and made the status of the Mamet 500 a war objective because of their symbolic value as a reward to the CVA for its expansionist policies. You can drag up the issues of the CVA-SF War if you really wish but we will be arguing at great length that I really think would be wasting a lot of energy given that all the issues have been gone into in detail at the time and several times since. Quote: I've already said that your common hatred of the Empire is a shared feature of your philosophies. No, you've tried to say it is the only shared feature. That is incorrect. Our shared desire to see the Amarrian Empire fall is but one shared objective, deriving from overlapping points of our philosophy, amongst many. Quote: Whilst it is true that you both disapprove of accepted views of reality, it doesn't follow that you are both working with the same axioms. Neither does it follow that our axioms are in total contradiction. Quote: OK, I'll hand that one to you as an area of overlap. You are indeed both groups of pirates. We are not pirates and you simply reduce the term to a casual and meaningless insult when you label us as such. If the Star Fraction are 'pirates' then we are the only 'pirates' in the cluster who do not shoot neutrals. Indeed, if we are 'pirates' then you are saying that the CVA are 'pirates' or you are simply mouthing incoherent phlegm-specked nonsenses. For the record, I do not consider the CVA pirates and I assert that we are not pirates. Quote: So you're saying that a society divided into "Elites" and despised weaklings is the same as one which promotes egalitarian development? No. To repeat, the Star Fraction considers that all, no matter their origin, are capable of self-development if they have the will to tread that path. The Star Fraction believes that only those who allow themselves to be so are truly weak. Originally by: "Rodj Blake" Originally by: "The Cosmopolite" Originally by: "Lady Revan" In essence The Sani Sabik is a call to Responsibility. You succeed or you're not worth the gift of life. The Star Fration has long emphasised personal responsibility and success as a key element of its philosophy. Ah, so the Star Fraction is for the compulsory euthanisation of the poor and weak after all, despite Tatsue's denial. Thanks for clearing that up. I have not said that at any point. I think any objective observer will note that you repeatedly seek to put words in my mouth and tell outright lies about Star Fraction philosophy. I am quite satisfied with your performance as it simply shows you up for the deceitful individual you are. I simply do not believe any capsuleer could be so stupid as to make such remarks from simple inability to understand rather easily understood positions. You are just being mischievous and rather obvious. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:52:00 - [49] Originally by: Rodj Blake Well done on removing context by deleting the Revan comment. A comment that I did not delete and which Tatsue can't really be blamed for not including as the comment itself does not in any way mention compulsory euthanasia. If it had, I would have specifically noted that we do not agree with compulsory euthanasia but, be it noted once again, it did not. As I say, you continually rely on making words mean what you want them to mean and pretending that people are saying things that they are not. It's very disreputable and doesn't fool anyone. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:58:00 - [50] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Our shared desire to see the Amarrian Empire fall is but one shared objective, deriving from overlapping points of our philosophy, amongst many. So you keep saying. Quote: Quote: Whilst it is true that you both disapprove of accepted views of reality, it doesn't follow that you are both working with the same axioms. Neither does it follow that our axioms are in total contradiction. We could go on saying Does! Does not! Does so! for ever about this. I think that I've demonstrated that that there a significant and fundamental differences in the paradigms employed by SF and Bloodveil. You're welcome to disagree with me though. Quote: Quote: OK, I'll hand that one to you as an area of overlap. You are indeed both groups of pirates. We are not pirates and you simply reduce the term to a casual and meaningless insult when you label us as such. If the Star Fraction are 'pirates' then we are the only 'pirates' in the cluster who do not shoot neutrals. Indeed, if we are 'pirates' then you are saying that the CVA are 'pirates' or you are simply mouthing incoherent phlegm-specked nonsenses. For the record, I do not consider the CVA pirates and I assert that we are not pirates. Casual and meaningless insult? What about "bogus little troll"? Would you class that as a casual and meaningless insult? Quote: Quote: So you're saying that a society divided into "Elites" and despised weaklings is the same as one which promotes egalitarian development? No. To repeat, the Star Fraction considers that all, no matter their origin, are capable of self-development if they have the will to tread that path. The Star Fraction believes that only those who allow themselves to be so are truly weak. Which is the opposite view of Bloodveil, who willingly dispose of those considered weak before they have the chance to tread this path you mention. Quote: Originally by: "Rodj Blake" Originally by: "The Cosmopolite" Originally by: "Lady Revan" In essence The Sani Sabik is a call to Responsibility. You succeed or you're not worth the gift of life. The Star Fration has long emphasised personal responsibility and success as a key element of its philosophy. Ah, so the Star Fraction is for the compulsory euthanisation of the poor and weak after all, despite Tatsue's denial. Thanks for clearing that up. I have not said that at any point. I think any objective observer will note that you repeatedly seek to put words in my mouth and tell outright lies about Star Fraction philosophy. I am quite satisfied with your performance as it simply shows you up for the deceitful individual you are. I simply do not believe any capsuleer could be so stupid as to make such remarks from simple inability to understand rather easily understood positions. You are just being mischievous and rather obvious. I refer you to my reply to Nuko above. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Rakiro Gallente Two Brothers Mining Corp.	Posted - 2007.04.05 15:59:00 - [51] You Amarrians spend so much time arguing amongst yourselves... It's no wonder the Minmatar are evading your mighty golden fleet and slipping through your fingers! You all need to relax more. I know a couple of GREAT Gallente massage palours that would sort you all right out! -Rakiro
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 16:00:00 - [52] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Rodj Blake Well done on removing context by deleting the Revan comment. A comment that I did not delete and which Tatsue can't really be blamed for not including as the comment itself does not in any way mention compulsory euthanasia. If it had, I would have specifically noted that we do not agree with compulsory euthanasia but, be it noted once again, it did not. If "you succeed or you're not worth the gift of life" isn't a reference to euthanasia, what is it a reference to? I suggest you re-read Neferis' article on Bloodveil to see just what their views on this are. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 16:36:00 - [53] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 05/04/2007 16:33:34 Originally by: Rodj Blake We could go on saying Does! Does not! Does so! for ever about this. I think that I've demonstrated that that there a significant and fundamental differences in the paradigms employed by SF and Bloodveil. You're welcome to disagree with me though. That's more your style, Blake. I've shown the points of overlap and accepted there are points of difference. I am the one who has honestly stated my position, you are the one who insists, ineptly, on trying to demonstrate something that is simply not true. We do indeed disagree, if you wish to leave it at that, I am content. Quote: Casual and meaningless insult? What about "bogus little troll"? Would you class that as a casual and meaningless insult? You'd have to take that up with Tatsue. I am merely stating that your use of the term 'pirate' is empty in this context. Changing the subject doesn't serve to change that. Originally by: "Rodj Blake" Quote: No. To repeat, the Star Fraction considers that all, no matter their origin, are capable of self-development if they have the will to tread that path. The Star Fraction believes that only those who allow themselves to be so are truly weak. Which is the opposite view of Bloodveil, who willingly dispose of those considered weak before they have the chance to tread this path you mention. That is your interpretation and I disagree with it. Quote: Originally by: "The Cosmopolite" Originally by: "Rodj Blake" Ah, so the Star Fraction is for the compulsory euthanisation of the poor and weak after all, despite Tatsue's denial. Thanks for clearing that up. I have not said that at any point. I think any objective observer will note that you repeatedly seek to put words in my mouth and tell outright lies about Star Fraction philosophy. I am quite satisfied with your performance as it simply shows you up for the deceitful individual you are. I simply do not believe any capsuleer could be so stupid as to make such remarks from simple inability to understand rather easily understood positions. You are just being mischievous and rather obvious. I refer you to my reply to Nuko above. The one where you accuse her of quoting out of context? Doesn't quite work as I didn't do so, nor really do I think Tatsue did by simply omitting a statement that does not speak of 'compulsory euthanasia'. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 16:47:00 - [54] Originally by: Rodj Blake If "you succeed or you're not worth the gift of life" isn't a reference to euthanasia, what is it a reference to? I suggest you re-read Neferis' article on Bloodveil to see just what their views on this are. I've read it very carefully. There is no reference to 'compulsory euthanasia'. You may be interpreting certain passages of theological text and other remarks in that vein but I don't agree with your interpretation. You are being mischievous in conflating the view that someone who does not succeed is 'not worth the gift of life' with the view that one should always use the technique of euthanasia, compulsory or otherwise, in the case of someone of that kind. As usual, you twist the words of others and when found out you twist them further and further from the original meaning. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Tatsue Nuko Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 16:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Rodj Blake If "you succeed or you're not worth the gift of life" isn't a reference to euthanasia, what is it a reference to? I suggest you re-read Neferis' article on Bloodveil to see just what their views on this are. And I suggest that you read and interpret texts as saying exactly what the text says, at least when reading my or the good doctor. To put it like this: you are the first person to bring up the subject of euthanasia. You are the only person to constantly bring it back up. Those you accuse of promoting compulsory euthanasia only discuss the subject in refutation comments to you. Is there a pattern here? Hello?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Tatsue Nuko To put it like this: you are the first person to bring up the subject of euthanasia. You are the only person to constantly bring it back up. Those you accuse of promoting compulsory euthanasia only discuss the subject in refutation comments to you. No. Neferis was the first person to bring up the subject of euthanasia. I've merely been trying to get you people to admit that it's another area on which you disagree with her. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:13:00 - [57] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 17:10:15 Originally by: The Cosmopolite I've read it very carefully. There is no reference to 'compulsory euthanasia' And just what do you think Neferis meant when she wrote the following: Quote: The unfit to produce wealth will be eliminated... ...The unfit to sustain himself will be eliminated... ...The unfit to use life as it is given will be eliminated... ...The unfit to use his body and mind to the greater development of mankind will be eliminated. Why is it so hard for you to accept that this is an area upon which SF and Bloodveil disagree on? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Eden Ramani INTAKI UNION The OSS	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Sable Schroedinger Well, to bring things closer to home, can you please explain to me the overlap between IU who fight for Intaki independence and a right to self rule and Amarrian paramilitaries who fight to defend and promote the aims of the Amarrian Empire û whose goals include bring all beings under the control of God through his chosen people, the Amar? Are they not, in the long term, diametrically apposed? Have you not, in the short term, put aside your ideological differences, committed hypocrisy if you will, in order to achieve your goals, based solely on your shared hatred of the Gallente Federation? Because, from the above posts, I can only conclude that SF and bloodveil have more in common than PIE and UI, and therefore your accusations miss the mark by some degree. The Amarr are opposed to the corruption that is the Federation. The Star Fraction is also opposed to the vile that is the Federation. We have found common ground both in the law-abiding nature of PIE and the unquestionable honor of Star Fraction pilots. Sable if you would review the comments from the IntakiÆs most political Idama the religion of the Amarr is acceptable to the Intaki and any who wish to pursue it are encouraged too. There was an interview on this very galnet about it. The Amarr are not diametrically opposed to the Intaki or its spiritualism. Ida is not a religion after all, but a guideline for harmony with the universe. Eden Ramani Follower of Ida http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0609/IntakiUnion.wmv Toma's: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0701/IUwar.wmv Kristie's: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/kristie/IU_-_CYI_War_Vid_-.wmv
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:16:00 - [59] Edited by: Ituralde on 05/04/2007 17:15:41 We have one important thing to agree on. That, is a common enemy. Why should we need more? Everything else we agree on has no other important bearing. If Star Fraction finds an organization distasteful, we ourselves can debate on what we do and do not agree on. We hardly need your input in the matter, the Star Fraction has never lacked in ability to express our own opinions and if we did, we certainly would not come to you for assistance in sorting out our ideals. I suggest that in the future if you want to drive wedges between us and our allies, Rodj, you try it in space. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Tomahawk Bliss INTAKI UNION The OSS	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:19:00 - [60] don't drag us into it, you wouldn't like it. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel

The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:25:00 - [61] Originally by: Rodj Blake And just what do you think Neferis meant when she wrote the following: Quote: The unfit to produce wealth will be eliminated... ...The unfit to sustain himself will be eliminated... ...The unfit to use life as it is given will be eliminated... ...The unfit to use his body and mind to the greater development of mankind will be eliminated. I think that when Lady Revan reproduced the theological text that you partially quote, she was quoting prophecy from a particular source of scripture. It is, more prosaically, an assessment of what will come to pass in the future devoid of any specific statement as to how this will be achieved beyond emphasis on personal responsibility. I note in particular that the term 'compulsory euthanasia' is not mentioned. Quote: Why is it so hard for you to accept that this is an area upon which SF and Bloodveil disagree on? I have no difficulty with the Star Fraction and Bloodveil disagreeing on certain matters and have not said that I do. The Star Fraction does not endorse compulsory euthanasia and no remarks made by myself or Tatsue can be twisted to make it seem that we do. That is the issue you have chosen to discuss and that is what you have failed to show. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:29:00 - [62] Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss don't drag us into it, you wouldn't like it. The Star Fraction is not doing so. You may disregard any statements concerning you as simply personal remarks. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:32:00 - [63] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Rodj Blake And just what do you think Neferis meant when she wrote the following: Quote: The unfit to produce wealth will be eliminated... ...The unfit to sustain himself will be eliminated... ...The unfit to use life as it is given will be eliminated... ...The unfit to use his body and mind to the greater development of mankind will be eliminated. I think that when Lady Revan reproduced the theological text that you partially quote, she was quoting prophecy from a particular source of scripture. It is, more prosaically, an assessment of what will come to pass in the future devoid of any specific statement as to how this will be achieved beyond emphasis on personal responsibility. I note in particular that the term 'compulsory euthanasia' is not mentioned. Yes, the scripture forms the basis of her religion. Do you honestly believe that Neferis does not approve of euthanasia? Quote: The Star Fraction does not endorse compulsory euthanasia and no remarks made by myself or Tatsue can be twisted to make it seem that we do. That is the issue you have chosen to discuss and that is what you have failed to show. My intention was not show that SF supports euthanasia. Just the opposite in fact. I think that perhaps you need to look up the meanings of irony and sarcasm. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:35:00 - [64] Originally by: Ituralde Edited by: Ituralde on 05/04/2007 17:15:41 We have one important thing to agree on. That, is a common enemy. At last! My whole point was that the only important thing that SF and Bloodveil have in common is their current enemy Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:49:00 - [65] Originally by: Rodj Blake Yes, the scripture forms the basis of her religion. Do you honestly believe that Neferis does not approve of euthanasia? In point of fact, I don't know Lady Revan's personal view on euthanasia. It is a matter for her to answer and not me. I do not believe, for clarity, that Bloodveil philosophy implies the use of 'compulsory euthanasia' at every opportunity. Even if some think it does, that is not a particular problem as no element of Bloodveil philosophy that overlaps with the Star Fraction's philosophy implies the use or support of 'compulsory euthanasia'. Quote: My intention was not show that SF supports euthanasia. Just the opposite in fact. I think that perhaps you need to look up the meanings of irony and sarcasm. Backpeddle. I know your intent. You've failed. You have not shown that Bloodveil philosophy necessarily implies 'compulsory euthanasia'. Nor have you succeeded in trying to portrary the Star Fraction as either in fundamental ideological opposition to Bloodveil philosophy or in agreement with all parts of it because we happen to agree on some points and disagree on others. The discussion is over. You accept that we do not support compulsory euthanasia and you have failed to show that the philosophies of the Star Fraction and Bloodveil are diametrically opposed to one another. The earlier accusation of hypocrisy is shown to be nonsense. From this point on the discussion will inevitably go in ever distorting and decreasing circles. We have established only that we each disagree on the interpretation of Bloodveil philosophy and the basis on which the Star Fraction can work with the Bloodveil while maintaining the integrity of its own ideology. I suggest we leave it at that. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 17:54:00 - [66] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 05/04/2007 17:51:08 Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Ituralde We have one important thing to agree on. That, is a common enemy. At last! My whole point was that the only important thing that SF and Bloodveil have in common is their current enemy Which is not so. It is but one thing among many other points of agreement. Ituralde does not say it is the only thing we agree on and while he may find it the only important matter, the Star Fraction as an entity does not regard it as the only important issue. He is entitled to his view but it gives you no succour. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Sable Schroedinger Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:00:00 - [67] IU, I think you're taking my (as pointed out personal) comments to heart when nothing like that was intended. I was purely poking a hole in the Amarrian peanut gallery's claim of SF hypocrisy. At no point were my comments directed at IU or its policies and wasn't under the impression that they did so. IÆm a tad hurt that you would have taken offence so easily after fighting side by side with you guys, but nothing an exchange of alcohol couldnÆt fix Sable -------------------------------------------- Join Now
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:07:00 - [68] Edited by: Ituralde on 05/04/2007 18:04:46 Originally by: Rodj Blake At last! My whole point was that the only important thing that SF and Bloodveil have in common is their current enemy Quote in context, worm. I did not say it is all we had in common. Simply that even were it all we had in common, it would be enough to work together. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:16:00 - [69] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 05/04/2007 17:51:08 Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Ituralde We have one important thing to agree on. That, is a common enemy. At last! My whole point was that the only important thing that SF and Bloodveil have in common is their current enemy Which is not so. It is but one thing among many other points of agreement. Ituralde does not say it is the only thing we agree on and while he may find it the only important matter, the Star Fraction as an entity does not regard it as the only important issue. He is entitled to his view but it gives you no succour. The Cosmopolite And you've still not shown what these other points are. Things that everyone in the cluster agree on do not really count. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:24:00 - [70] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 18:20:57 Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Rodj Blake Yes, the scripture forms the basis of her religion. Do you honestly believe that Neferis does not approve of euthanasia? In point of fact, I don't know Lady Revan's personal view on euthanasia. It is a matter for her to answer and not me. I do not believe, for clarity, that Bloodveil philosophy implies the use of 'compulsory euthanasia' at every opportunity. Even if some think it does, that is not a particular problem as no element of Bloodveil philosophy that overlaps with the Star Fraction's philosophy implies the use or support of 'compulsory euthanasia'. Quote: My intention was not show that SF supports euthanasia. Just the opposite in fact. I think that perhaps you need to look up the meanings of irony and sarcasm. Backpeddle. I know your intent. You've failed. You have not shown that Bloodveil philosophy necessarily implies 'compulsory euthanasia'. Nor have you succeeded in trying to portrary the Star Fraction as either in fundamental ideological opposition to Bloodveil philosophy or in agreement with all parts of it because we happen to agree on some points and disagree on others. The discussion is over. You accept that we do not support compulsory euthanasia and you have failed to show that the philosophies of the Star Fraction and Bloodveil are diametrically opposed to one another. The earlier accusation of hypocrisy is shown to be nonsense. From this point on the discussion will inevitably go in ever distorting and decreasing circles. We have established only that we each disagree on the interpretation of Bloodveil philosophy and the basis on which the Star Fraction can work with the Bloodveil while maintaining the integrity of its own ideology. I suggest we leave it at that. The Cosmopolite Whilst the actual word isn't used, I would have thought that even you would have noticed that euthanasia is a part of the Bloodveil dogma. Stories of Revan's contempt for those weaker than herself are evident everywhere. See here for an example. Tell me - what is the usual thing that one does to roaches? If that comment isn't a description of euthanasia, I don't know what is. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:24:00 - [71] Originally by: Rodj Blake And you've still not shown what these other points are. Things that everyone in the cluster agree on do not really count. You agree that a slave should be entitled to fight for its freedom? Now, I know you don't but it does illustrate that you are talking nonsense when you say I have not shown the areas of overlap between Bloodveil and Star Fraction philosophy. I showed the points of agreement here. To say, I haven't shown the points of agreement and that they are all matters that 'everyone in the cluster agree on' is a straightforward falsehood. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:27:00 - [72] Originally by: The Cosmopolite I showed the points of agreement here. And I later pointed out that they weren't really points of agreement, or that they were things that most people agree on. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Tomahawk Bliss INTAKI UNION The OSS	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Sable Schroedinger IU, I think you're taking my (as pointed out personal) comments to heart when nothing like that was intended. I was purely poking a hole in the Amarrian peanut gallery's claim of SF hypocrisy. At no point were my comments directed at IU or its policies and wasn't under the impression that they did so. IÆm a tad hurt that you would have taken offence so easily after fighting side by side with you guys, but nothing an exchange of alcohol couldnÆt fix Sable not offended, not wanting to get involved. I said before this started that if we get dragged into it we would shoot who ever did the dragging...and then I'd probably shoot a Revan a little for old times sake but that is beside the point. Intaki Union's policy of interaction has always followed a specific Mandate. IU are not opposed to working with any group that forwards the Movement be they pirate, lawman or free-radical. If my brisk manner offended it was not intended, in fact that was me being nice. Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think. GLBTA Channel
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:43:00 - [74] Originally by: Rodj Blake Whilst the actual word isn't used, I would have thought that even you would have noticed that euthanasia is a part of the Bloodveil dogma. Stories of Revan's contempt for those weaker than herself are evident everywhere. See here for an example. Tell me - what is the usual thing that one does to roaches? If that comment isn't a description of euthanasia, I don't know what is. I am quite aware of Lady Revan's attitude to the weak. I've already made it clear that the Star Fraction does not have quite the same view. Bringing in statements by Lady Revan that the Star Fraction does not agree with does nothing more than allow us to say that we do not entirely agree with the particular statement that has been made. Moreover, if you bothered to read the whole thread you would note that Lady Revan concedes that killing all the 'cockroaches' may not be the best policy. This does not strike me as advocating compulsory euthanasia in all circumstances. However, it's been stated several times that the Star Fraction does not agree with every jot and tittle of Bloodveil philosophy. Whether Lady Revan believes in euthanasia per se or not is for her to say. I still do not see a necessary connection between Bloodveil philosophy and 'compulsory euthanasia'. You've provided ample opportunity for the differences of emphasis between the Star Fraction and Bloodveil on the question of those who allow themselves to be weak to be highlighted. That's fine. It does not change the fact that we agree on many points and are not diametrically opposed in ideological terms. You can keep on saying we are for as long as you want but your view, actually, counts for little. I prefer others to make up their own minds and I am content for them to do so. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:45:00 - [75] Originally by: The Cosmopolite It does not change the fact that we agree on many points and are not diametrically opposed in ideological terms. OK then, to try and get this discussion back on topic, what would you say is the single most important objective of the SF? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 18:53:00 - [76] Originally by: Rodj Blake And I later pointed out that they weren't really points of agreement, or that they were things that most people agree on. Do you agree that slaves should be able to fight for their own freedom? Do you agree that the will to freedom and power is a philosophy which drives us all? Do you agree that all individuals, no matter their origin, are capable of developing beyond dependency on others if they have the will to do so? I doubt you agree with any of these but just possibly you might in one or other case. I myself, strongly doubt that 'most people agree on' all of them or the other points of agreement I demonstrated here. At this point you have reduced yourself to telling lies. The points of agreement I showed are real and no amount of you screeching that they are not will show the reverse. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 19:10:00 - [77] Originally by: Rodj Blake OK then, to try and get this discussion back on topic, what would you say is the single most important objective of the SF? I know you are asking this as a serpent waiting to strike but I will answer for the benefit of others. The aim of the Star Fraction is to achieve a future where all those with the will to seize their own destiny can do so without having to overcome artificial limitations imposed by others. Or put another way and as was said earlier: Originally by: "Tatsue Nuko" The goal of the revolution is to rid ourselves of all influences trying to halt the development and evolution into a posthuman existence. I am going to say very clearly that it remains to be seen, at this time, whether or not, in the long-term, the differences in ideology of the Bloodveil vis a vis the ideology of the Star Fraction will operate counter to this objective. Given no definite long-range assessment, there is no difficulty in working together at this time given we agree on numerous points. You did, after all, wish to get back 'on topic' and this topic is largely you trying to drive a wedge between the various parties you discuss in the first post. So, I'll say right away, that you won't succeed on this issue either. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Falcione Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2007.04.05 19:30:00 - [78] The only real wedge will occur when one of you gains more power then the other right? My Bio in Progress Prologue / CH.1
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 19:35:00 - [79] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Do you agree that slaves should be able to fight for their own freedom? Do you agree that the will to freedom and power is a philosophy which drives us all? Do you agree that all individuals, no matter their origin, are capable of developing beyond dependency on others if they have the will to do so? I doubt you agree with any of these but just possibly you might in one or other case. I myself, strongly doubt that 'most people agree on' all of them or the other points of agreement I demonstrated here. At this point you have reduced yourself to telling lies. The points of agreement I showed are real and no amount of you screeching that they are not will show the reverse. The Cosmopolite Regarding your statements: I'm sure that Neferis only agrees with slaves being able to fight for their freedom as long as her own slaves are not in a position for fight her and win. The will to power is an interesting concept. It's interesting because when two people follow that particular philosophy conflict between them is inevitable. Therefore I hardly see how a shared belief in the concept can bring two parties together. I, along with most people, do agree that the vast majority of individuals are capable of moving on from dependency. It's hardly rocket science to say that people can learn. I certainly don't want to see people put own because they can't contribute. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 19:38:00 - [80] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 05/04/2007 19:34:41 Originally by: The Cosmopolite Originally by: Rodj Blake OK then, to try and get this discussion back on topic, what would you say is the single most important objective of the SF? I know you are asking this as a serpent waiting to strike but I will answer for the benefit of others. The aim of the Star Fraction is to achieve a future where all those with the will to seize their own destiny can do so without having to overcome artificial limitations imposed by others. OK then. A concise and to-the-point answer. In this future of yours, how will people with the will to seize their own destiny do so if there are artificial limitations placed on them by the one government of your friends in Bloodveil? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 20:13:00 - [81] Originally by: Rodj Blake In this future of yours, how will people with the will to seize their own destiny do so if there are artificial limitations placed on them by the one government of your friends in Bloodveil? You aren't listening to a word he says. Anybody with a will to seize their own destiny doesn't care a jot for "artificial limitations" they make their own fate and forge their own destiny without gods, governments or claptrap puling amarrians frenziedly typing nonsensical critiques while trapped in stations, influencing their ambitions. Star Fraction is recruiting
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.05 21:26:00 - [82] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Rodj Blake In this future of yours, how will people with the will to seize their own destiny do so if there are artificial limitations placed on them by the one government of your friends in Bloodveil? You aren't listening to a word he says. Anybody with a will to seize their own destiny doesn't care a jot for "artificial limitations" they make their own fate and forge their own destiny without gods, governments or claptrap puling amarrians frenziedly typing nonsensical critiques while trapped in stations, influencing their ambitions. And that, m'dear, is one of the reasons why your aims are incompatible with Bloodveil's. They seek a universal government. And no, I don't feel trapped. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
redialer Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.04.05 21:29:00 - [83] Fly safe o - RMS \|\___0 - Coulition Of CAREBEAR killiers \|\\|\\_\_ red1
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.05 21:51:00 - [84] Edited by: Ituralde on 05/04/2007 21:48:45 Its rather clear, Mr. (Or perhaps I should include some tinpot rank?) Blake, you have little in common with either us or Bloodveil and I sincerely doubt you understand much about either of our organizations save on a very simple level. Given that you have repeatedly demonstrated that you either cannot read or cannot retain anything we attempt to communicate, the fact that you know little is hardly surprising. So lets face facts here. Down with the rhetorical smoke and mirrors. You have no ideological stake here. Its altogether clear you are trying to put a wedge between us and our allies. I would argue its because your military forces are impotent and have little to no opportunity to offer effective resistance to us in space and thus feel the need to strike what weak blows you can, but I understand. You would of course deny that, as well. If we feel we have ideological issues with Bloodveil, there is not a pilot among us who would be afraid to debate them. We don't need nor want your input nor prompting so just for the sake of cutting of this idiocy where it stands, keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. You aren't convincing anyone. Next time you try sowing discord, snake, have something substantial to back it up with. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.04.05 21:58:00 - [85] Originally by: Ituralde Edited by: Ituralde on 05/04/2007 21:48:45 Its rather clear, Mr. (Or perhaps I should include some tinpot rank?) Blake, you have little in common with either us or Bloodveil and I sincerely doubt you understand much about either of our organizations save on a very simple level. Given that you have repeatedly demonstrated that you either cannot read or cannot retain anything we attempt to communicate, the fact that you know little is hardly surprising. So lets face facts here. Down with the rhetorical smoke and mirrors. You have no ideological stake here. Its altogether clear you are trying to put a wedge between us and our allies. I would argue its because your military forces are impotent and have little to no opportunity to offer effective resistance to us in space and thus feel the need to strike what weak blows you can, but I understand. You would of course deny that, as well. If we feel we have ideological issues with Bloodveil, there is not a pilot among us who would be afraid to debate them. We don't need nor want your input nor prompting so just for the sake of cutting of this idiocy where it stands, keep your forked tongue behind your teeth. You aren't convincing anyone. Next time you try sowing discord, snake, have something substantial to back it up with. Well said Free Captain. Very well said. "Power destroys the ones who dont have it"
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.06 16:33:00 - [86] Originally by: Ituralde Edited by: Ituralde on 05/04/2007 21:48:45 Its rather clear, Mr. (Or perhaps I should include some tinpot rank?) Blake, you have little in common with either us or Bloodveil and I sincerely doubt you understand much about either of our organizations save on a very simple level. Given that you have repeatedly demonstrated that you either cannot read or cannot retain anything we attempt to communicate, the fact that you know little is hardly surprising. I understand the following things: Star Fraction seek the following - * An end to all governments. * Religious freedom for all. * Decentralised military force. Bloodveil seek the following - * A centralised universal government. * All religions except for the Bloodveil interpretation of Sani Sabik to be wiped out. * All military force to be under central control. I really don't think that I need to point out once again that the level of friction created by these differences is so great that it can only be overcome by a shared hatred of the Empire. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.06 16:33:00 - [87] Originally by: Revan Neferis Well said Free Captain. Very well said. Not finding things so tiresome now? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.06 21:24:00 - [88] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 06/04/2007 21:20:32 The Star Fraction and Bloodveil agree on numerous matters and share similar points of view on a number of issues above and beyond our respective opposition to the Amarrian regime. This is based on our understanding of the respective ideologies. The interpretations of third-parties are irrelevent. Which is to say, even if you think our ideologies are in total opposition, that is not enough to show that we must be united only by opposition to the Amarrian Empire. To show that, you must show that we do not agree on any other point. That has not been shown. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 15:49:00 - [89] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 06/04/2007 21:20:32 The Star Fraction and Bloodveil agree on numerous matters and share similar points of view on a number of issues above and beyond our respective opposition to the Amarrian regime. This is based on our understanding of the respective ideologies. The interpretations of third-parties are irrelevent. Which is to say, even if you think our ideologies are in total opposition, that is not enough to show that we must be united only by opposition to the Amarrian Empire. To show that, you must show that we do not agree on any other point. That has not been shown. The Cosmopolite What has been shown, repeatedly, is that the ideology you express here on IGS is at least as alien to that of Bloodveil than it is to that of the Amarr loyalists. You position is untenable - you are intelligent enough to realize this, even if you will not admit to it. Why not admit it to yourself, reconsider your moral ethics and learn something from the experience. Your current position reminds me of a three year old who puts his hands across his ears and continously sing "tralalala" in order to avoid hearing an uncomfortable truth. Mr Cosmopolite, I still hold you in higher esteem than that - please do not prove that my faith in you is undeserved. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 16:46:00 - [90] Edited by: Devilish Ledoux on 07/04/2007 16:43:05 Everything the Imperialists say boils down to this: "If you are fighting us, you should fight Sani Sabik, too!" Now, far be it from me to tell you that you've wasted a lot of energy arguing this point, but you have. The reason is simple: Nobody but nobody tells us who we should and shouldn't fight. Ever. Pointing out ideological differences between us and our allies is totally without value. We have ideological differences with everyone, friend and foe. The difference between friend and foe is that we still believe that our friends will come around to our way of thinking eventually without combat; while we believe that our enemies will probably never come around to our way of thinking and must be suppressed so that they do not impede our evolution. Now, if you're done wasting your time hunched over a comm station, come out and make a difference. We're waiting for you. _

Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:05:00 - [91] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Nobody but nobody tells us who we should and shouldn't fight. Ever. Please notice that we never have. All we have done is point out the double standards of your dealings with people around you. The ideology of Bloodveil should be at least as alien to you as the ideology of the Amarr loyalists. At least if we judge you by you speaches here on IGS. However, I must ask you this: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? PIE currently have several wars active besides various other duties (read the news). We deal with our enemies depending on their importance to us. Star Fraction is not high on the list and so we leave you alone for the time being. If you expect us to repect your right to form your own policies (which we do - we simply point out the inconsistencies) then who are you to question ours? Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Pointing out ideological differences between us and our allies is totally without value. We have ideological differences with everyone, friend and foe. So now you are willing to admit to the all too obvious differences in ideology between Star Fraction and Bloodveil. That is certainly a step in the right direction. Does this mark the beginning of a new line from Star Fraction regarding this question? Originally by: Devilish Ledoux The difference between friend and foe is that we still believe that our friends will come around to our way of thinking eventually without combat; while we believe that our enemies will probably never come around to our way of thinking and must be suppressed so that they do not impede our evolution. I can see how you must feel this way. While the Amarr loyalists have stuck to their views all along, Revan and her Bloodveil has certainly shown a certain moral "flexibility" when it comes to forming policies. Such "flexibility" might well prove to be an asset when dealing with Star Fraction it seems. Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Now, if you're done wasting your time hunched over a comm station, come out and make a difference. We're waiting for you. Then by all means, keep waiting. We will deal with you in due time - when we see fit. Until then just hang around - at least you do no harm to anyone that way. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:11:00 - [92] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus However, I must ask you this: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? We have precisely no respect for cowardice. Star Fraction is recruiting
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 21:37:00 - [93] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Pointing out ideological differences between us and our allies is totally without value. We have ideological differences with everyone, friend and foe. So now you are willing to admit to the all too obvious differences in ideology between Star Fraction and Bloodveil. That is certainly a step in the right direction. Does this mark the beginning of a new line from Star Fraction regarding this question? That there are differences between the ideologies of the Bloodveil and the Star Fraction has already been accepted by us. We could hardly do otherwise and it is hardly a new point. I said it in closing when I also pointed out some of the numerous points of agreement between our two groups here. It seems I have to repeat again that it is of no great interest to us what the views of third-parties may be as to the respective ideologies. We are the ones who judge that our ideologies have sufficient points of agreement, beyond any particular shared opposition to a given entity, for us to co-operate on any number of issues. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:14:00 - [94] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Octavinus Augustus However, I must ask you this: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? We have precisely no respect for cowardice. Is that the best you can come up with? You have no answer to my question so you try with an obvious flamebait? As for the quality of the bait you present, it makes your attempt to degenerate the disussion even worse. We have told you repeatedly that we find you to be rather insignificant. Do you honestly think we care one bit what you do or do not respect? Perhaps you should leave the posting to Mr Cosmopolite and others like him. People who at least makes an attempt to present an intelligent view on the debate. Try answering the question next time - If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:20:00 - [95] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Octavinus Augustus However, I must ask you this: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? We have precisely no respect for cowardice. Is that the best you can come up with? You have no answer to my question so you try with an obvious flamebait? As for the quality of the bait you present, it makes your attempt to degenerate the disussion even worse. We have told you repeatedly that we find you to be rather insignificant. Do you honestly think we care one bit what you do or do not respect? Perhaps you should leave the posting to Mr Cosmopolite and others like him. People who at least makes an attempt to present an intelligent view on the debate. Try answering the question next time - If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others Sorry, I only read the words of those with the courage to support their views in space. Come win my respect with actions and then I might be prepared to give you an answer. Star Fraction is recruiting
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:23:00 - [96] Originally by: The Cosmopolite We are the ones who judge that our ideologies have sufficient points of agreement, beyond any particular shared opposition to a given entity, for us to co-operate on any number of issues. So your basic stand is that while you have the right to question the ideology of other's (ie your thoughts on the Amarr theocratist dictatorship or whatever) you frown on anyone who put your own ideology under a similar scrutiny? You do indeed have the right to form alliances and frienships with whomever you desire. But then you make grand statements on IGS regarding "freedom" and follow it up with actions that clearly contradict your words. How can you expect that we shall not point to the inconsistencies so that those third parties you seem to disrespect so much may see you for what you really are? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:25:00 - [97] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Sorry, I only read the words of those with the courage to support their views in space. Come win my respect with actions and then I might be prepared to give you an answer. So instead you post replies to posts you haven't even read? You are beneath even contempt. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:41:00 - [98] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus So instead you post replies to posts you haven't even read? You are beneath even contempt. And yet I and my comrades are free to go where we choose in your capital systems and you are not. Must be maddening for you. Star Fraction is recruiting
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.07 22:45:00 - [99] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus So your basic stand is that while you have the right to question the ideology of other's (ie your thoughts on the Amarr theocratist dictatorship or whatever) you frown on anyone who put your own ideology under a similar scrutiny? Not at all. My stand is that I will refute claims that are false and claims that the only point of agreement between the Bloodveil and the Star Fraction is a 'shared hatred of the Amarrian Empire' are false claims. They are false because the Star Fraction and Bloodveil agree on a number of other issues, some of which I have set out, above and beyond opposition to a single given political entity. They are false if they rely on the interpretations of third-parties of our respective ideologies because when speaking of the question of agreements between the Bloodveil and Star Fraction what is of importance, by definition really, is the interpretations we have of our respective ideologies and where we agree and, yes, where we differ. Quote: You do indeed have the right to form alliances and frienships with whomever you desire. But then you make grand statements on IGS regarding "freedom" and follow it up with actions that clearly contradict your words. Such as? I have denied no-one any freedom that they care to exercise as they are able. You are still braying your best are you not? How then have I acted in contradiction to my beliefs? Let me anticipate you, I have not. Quote: How can you expect that we shall not point to the inconsistencies so that those third parties you seem to disrespect so much may see you for what you really are? I fully expect third-parties to point out what they believe to be inconsistencies based on their, in my view flawed, understanding of the issues. Your assessment of 'disrespect' is incorrect, incidentally. I am simply pointing out that when the issue is one of the agreements and differences between two parties, with no reference to any other entity, it is of no importance whatever what the views of any third-party may be. Keep on shouting out your theories as much as you like, by all means. It won't change the fact that they are false. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 10:44:00 - [100] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine And yet I and my comrades are free to go where we choose in your capital systems and you are not. Must be maddening for you. So now you are back to reading and answering my questions Jasmine? In that case I guess I'll refer you to my original one: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? As for what is maddining to whom, the Amarrian Loyalists are used to seeing enemies in Amarr from time to time - it's just business as usual to us. We will deal with you in due time. However, SF has spent considerable energy on various threads whining about our tactics and strategies. Perhaps we may conclude that SF appear to be less content with the current situation than PIE? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.

Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 11:02:00 - [101] Originally by: The Cosmopolite My stand is that I will refute claims that are false and claims that the only point of agreement between the Bloodveil and the Star Fraction is a 'shared hatred of the Amarrian Empire' are false claims. The issue here, at least as far as I'm concerned, is that at the very basic level the ideologies expressed by SF and Bloodveil are incompatible. One wishes for a galaxy wide theocratic dictatorship with Revan Neferis at the helm while the other wishes for an end to all government. Just one clear example of incompatibility. There are multiple. You answer that you and Bloodveil agree on a number of issues and that that is enough for you. That would be like PIE seeking admittance into Ushra Khan as we both claim to defend the individuals right to "live and prosper in accordance with the law". That we interpret "live", "prosper" and "law" in vastly different ways should matter little according to your standards. You will see no such alliance. PIE and U'K are incompatible and we both know it. We both place a very high value on such concepts as "consistency", "commitment" and "belief" - even if we believe in different things. Incidentally, that is another reason why U'K ranks a lot higher on PIE's "enemies to deal with" list than does SF. I must refer you again to my analogy with the 3-year-old who holds his hands across his ears and sing a little tune to avoid facing the uncomfortable truths of the world. You increasingly remind me of such a child, Mr Cosmopolite. I fear this discussion has reached a dead end. Until you are willing to face the world as it is, and not as how you wish it to be, then there is little point in this debate. When you have come to your senses seek me out and we may yet have a debate. Until then, keep your hands across your ears and sing your little tune. Just in case, you had better close your eyes as well. GOD only knows what they may find out if you keep them open. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 12:08:00 - [102] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus The issue here, at least as far as I'm concerned, is that at the very basic level the ideologies expressed by SF and Bloodveil are incompatible. The issue here is that a coward who has thus far played absolutely no role in the fighting has no place to debate or criticise either entity that believes in personal responsibility, individual strength and opposition to the status quo. I am trying to drop you subtle hints here but until you come and do something substantive about your "concerns" you are occupy the position of a windbag no more and no less. Star Fraction is recruiting
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.08 14:50:00 - [103] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine The issue here is that a coward who has thus far played absolutely no role in the fighting has no place to debate or criticise either entity that believes in personal responsibility, individual strength and opposition to the status quo. I am trying to drop you subtle hints here but until you come and do something substantive about your "concerns" you are occupy the position of a windbag no more and no less. If I'm not mistaken Octavinus (like Archbishop) is one of the more financially oriented members of PIE. He is, so to speak, "putting his money where his mouth is" in a more literal way. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation The Guardian Coalition	Posted - 2007.04.08 15:13:00 - [104] Amarrians are not allowed to post on GalNet. Intellectual inferiors to humanity shouldn't be allowed the privilege of speech, let alone of an Empire.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.08 15:19:00 - [105] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris [snip] Intellectual inferiors to humanity shouldn't be allowed the privilege of speech, let alone of an Empire. ...and yet here you are Andreus. You may not have an empire, but you are speaking for some reason. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 15:45:00 - [106] Edited by: Octavinus Augustus on 08/04/2007 15:44:35 Edited by: Octavinus Augustus on 08/04/2007 15:42:38 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine The issue here is that a coward who has thus far played absolutely no role in the fighting has no place to debate or criticise either entity that believes in personal responsibility, individual strength and opposition to the status quo. I am trying to drop you subtle hints here but until you come and do something substantive about your "concerns" you are occupy the position of a windbag no more and no less. Jasmine, you have all the subtlety of a brick. Both you and the brick may believe you are subtle, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. As for the rest of your post, it's just the smack we have become accustomed to from your side. You Jasmine should probably concentrate on the question put to you: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Or is it that you have no answer and consequently tries to derail the discussion once again? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:02:00 - [107] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus You Jasmine should probably concentrate on the question put to you: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? [/quote I expect nothing from my enemies except that they be prepared to risk their cowardly skins in battle while presuming to lecture people on galnet. You have precisely no right to expect courtesy from me, you have done precisely nothing to deserve it. Star Fraction is recruiting
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:06:00 - [108] Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 08/04/2007 16:02:53 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine I expect nothing from my enemies except that they be prepared to risk their cowardly skins in battle while presuming to lecture people on galnet. You have precisely no right to expect courtesy from me, you have done precisely nothing to deserve it. So you're saying that people who arn't fighting, with their own ships in the middle of combat, arn't worth anything? ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:09:00 - [109] Originally by: Andreus Ixiris Intellectual inferiors to humanity shouldn't be allowed the privilege of speech, let alone of an Empire. I will not forget that it is you saying this. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:09:00 - [110] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel So you're saying that people who arn't fighting, with their own ships in the middle of combat, arn't worth anything? Amarrian's on the PIE side certainly. Star Fraction is recruiting

Nomakai Delateriel Amarr A Better Future	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:15:00 - [111] Edited by: Nomakai Delateriel on 08/04/2007 16:12:27 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel So you're saying that people who arn't fighting, with their own ships in the middle of combat, arn't worth anything? Amarrian's on the PIE side certainly. Ah, so that is how Fractionists make their ideologies and politics fit together, they just follow the maxim of holding nothing and no one to the same standard. I hear the gallente are suffering from the same problem. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Atandros Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:24:00 - [112] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: Jasmine Constantine The issue here is that a coward who has thus far played absolutely no role in the fighting has no place to debate or criticise either entity that believes in personal responsibility, individual strength and opposition to the status quo. I am trying to drop you subtle hints here but until you come and do something substantive about your "concerns" you are occupy the position of a windbag no more and no less. If I'm not mistaken Octavinus (like Archbishop) is one of the more financially oriented members of PIE. He is, so to speak, "putting his money where his mouth is" in a more literal way. Considering the recent upsurge in using plain T1 fittings and the deployment of legions of T1 cruisers by the Amarrian loyalists (all easy to see in our public kill records), I don't think that chap is putting money anywhere near where his mouth is in any sense whatsoever. -------
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:29:00 - [113] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Octavinus Augustus You Jasmine should probably concentrate on the question put to you: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? [/quote I expect nothing from my enemies except that they be prepared to risk their cowardly skins in battle while presuming to lecture people on galnet. You have precisely no right to expect courtesy from me, you have done precisely nothing to deserve it. That, little Jasmine, place you at odd's within your own organisation. The previous view expressed by SF was that PIE should not presume to tell you people how to fight your war. You now tell us that you expect no such courtesy (although you shall certainly have it). Tell me, little one, does it not bother you that you cannot even live up to the standards your own organisation must expect from it's members? Or is it that SF expects one standard of conduct from it's enemies while not feeling honorbound to conduct your own dealings in a similar way? I think it is time for you, little Jasmine, to call in the cavalry and let those of your organisation with a little more talent for this do the talking. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:32:00 - [114] Originally by: Atandros Considering the recent upsurge in using plain T1 fittings and the deployment of legions of T1 cruisers by the Amarrian loyalists (all easy to see in our public kill records), I don't think that chap is putting money anywhere near where his mouth is in any sense whatsoever. Perhaps, little Jasmine, the cavalry has arrived. Do we have a new candidate to try his hand on your little campaign of smack? Perhaps, Atandros, I should refer you to the question Jasmine is so evidently unable to give a conherent reply to: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Can you do any better? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Nekumi Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:38:00 - [115] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Atandros Considering the recent upsurge in using plain T1 fittings and the deployment of legions of T1 cruisers by the Amarrian loyalists (all easy to see in our public kill records), I don't think that chap is putting money anywhere near where his mouth is in any sense whatsoever. Perhaps, little Jasmine, the cavalry has arrived. Do we have a new candidate to try his hand on your little campaign of smack? Perhaps, Atandros, I should refer you to the question Jasmine is so evidently unable to give a conherent reply to: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Can you do any better? Here is some nice smack to go along with your answer. Respect is earned you muppet and you have been found wanting.
Atandros Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:50:00 - [116] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Originally by: Atandros Considering the recent upsurge in using plain T1 fittings and the deployment of legions of T1 cruisers by the Amarrian loyalists (all easy to see in our public kill records), I don't think that chap is putting money anywhere near where his mouth is in any sense whatsoever. Perhaps, little Jasmine, the cavalry has arrived. Do we have a new candidate to try his hand on your little campaign of smack? Perhaps, Atandros, I should refer you to the question Jasmine is so evidently unable to give a conherent reply to: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Can you do any better? Deplorably evasive (though not surprising by any stretch of the imagination). I'll begin dignifying you with answers when I see you fighting for your paramilitary organization, and contributing to it with something more substantial than trapping other Galnet posters in linguistic contortions. -------
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 18:03:00 - [117] Pay them no heed Octavinus. The barrage of insults is just indicative of the fact that SF has run out of logic and yet still feels it imperative to get the last word in. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.08 22:15:00 - [118] Originally by: Atandros I'll begin dignifying you with answers when I see you fighting for your paramilitary organization, and contributing to it with something more substantial than trapping other Galnet posters in linguistic contortions. I take it then, that you cannot come up with an answer either Mr Atandros? If it helps you, then please do pretend the question is asked by anyone you like. That isn't really important. The question remain the same. For you convenience, I'll post it again below: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 22:43:00 - [119] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus I take it then, that you cannot come up with an answer either Mr Atandros? If it helps you, then please do pretend the question is asked by anyone you like. That isn't really important. The question remain the same. For you convenience, I'll post it again below: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? When the entirety of the opposing allied forces meets in a dramatic fleet battle and pursuit and you are the only person hiding in a station you have to get an inkling of the reason why it is we disrespect you so. Star Fraction is recruiting
Azure Skyclad Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.08 22:48:00 - [120] Edited by: Azure Skyclad on 08/04/2007 22:46:21 I don't expect anything from you or anyone else Octavinus. This is the simple point of understanding that you and your ilk fail to grasp. http://ultravixen.co.uk/

Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.09 08:07:00 - [121] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine When the entirety of the opposing allied forces meets in a dramatic fleet battle and pursuit and you are the only person hiding in a station you have to get an inkling of the reason why it is we disrespect you so. So little Jasmine has seen fit to put me on trial. A trial in which she holds the position of both prosecutor, defence, judge and jury. A trial in which the defence has no right to speak. Surprisingly, I must have been convicted after a gruelling trial of several (indeed several) seconds. So now my life is forfeit and I'm doomed to live in everlasting dishonour. For those of you out there who are actually interested in hearing both sides of a story before jumping to conclusions, I can present you with the following points: A) At the time of the engagement I was nowhere near my pod interface. I didn't arrive in it until approximately an hour after the engagement. I guess some would call that an extenuating circumstance. B) I did, in fact, send a servant (some would, for some reason, label him an "alt") of mine to the proceedings as it was deemed that his field of expertise was more needed than mine. That should probably count as an extenuating circumstance as well. C) Due some inexplicable physical law of the universe we inhabit, I'm unable to interface with my pod while this servant of mine is interfacing with his. Yet another extenuating circumstance? To my mind these 3 points should prove that once again, little Jasmine has run off making wild accusations and and even wilder assumptions without even checking the facts before doing so. Having done so repeatedly already, most people would assume that she would display a willingness to learn from past mistakes. Little Jasmine has shown a remarked "reluctancy" to do so, however. Little Jasmine may be a fine fighter jock. She may even be the best in the EvE galaxy for all I know. Her performance here on IGS has been mediocre at best though. If I had been a public relations advisor to Star Fraction I'd advice her to start reconsidering her tune - is somehow distracts from the message when every other node is false. I seriously doubt little Jasmine would follow such an advice however. But there you have it - now I've even given her a golden opportunity to prove me wrong by expressing my doubts. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.09 08:10:00 - [122] Nothing needs being reconsidered, Worm. Cry foul when your vaunted 'Golden Fleets' aren't fleeing from their own capitol, not even stopping to defend your own CEO. Pathetic. You have no ground to stand on. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.09 08:13:00 - [123] Originally by: Azure Skyclad Edited by: Azure Skyclad on 08/04/2007 22:46:21 I don't expect anything from you or anyone else Octavinus. This is the simple point of understanding that you and your ilk fail to grasp. Little Jasmine already tried this line - it didn't work. SF has repeatedly complained about the tactics and strategies of PIE in this war. In other words you expect us to behave differently than we do. SF has repeatedly remarked that you expect us to let you fight your wars in any way you see fit. SF has repeatedly remarked that you expect us to let you make friends on your own terms, irregardless of obvious incompatible ideologies. I have simply asked if one cannot expect you to deal with others the same way. And so I ask, once again: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? The answer should be rather simple. A "yes" or a "no" would suffice. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.09 08:18:00 - [124] Originally by: Ituralde Nothing needs being reconsidered, Worm. Cry foul when your vaunted 'Golden Fleets' aren't fleeing from their own capitol, not even stopping to defend your own CEO. Pathetic. You have no ground to stand on. Nice try at a save Ituralde. Unfortunately you fail to relate to the issue at hand. Little Jasmine has condemned me, and to justify her condemnation, she has presented "evidence" to support her case. Unfortunately (for her) her "evidence" was flawed to say the least. Try relate to that, instead of simply inventing a new stand. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.09 09:52:00 - [125] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/04/2007 09:53:45 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/04/2007 09:48:27 Originally by: Ituralde Nothing needs being reconsidered, Worm. Cry foul when your vaunted 'Golden Fleets' aren't fleeing from their own capitol, not even stopping to defend your own CEO. Pathetic. You have no ground to stand on. Whilst the loss of Admiral Zhuul's ship was regrettable, you appear to have put just the slightest amount of spin on the events of last night by omitting to mention the Raven, Curse, Armageddon, Dominix, Megathron, Hurricane, Myrmidon, Vagabond and two Deimoses lost by SF shortly beforehand. Now, perhaps you would care to stop focusing on your manly efforts to kill a single ship and instead concentrate on the matter in hand? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Azure Skyclad Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.09 10:18:00 - [126] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus Little Jasmine already tried this line - it didn't work. SF has repeatedly complained about the tactics and strategies of PIE in this war. In other words you expect us to behave differently than we do. SF has repeatedly remarked that you expect us to let you fight your wars in any way you see fit. SF has repeatedly remarked that you expect us to let you make friends on your own terms, irregardless of obvious incompatible ideologies. I have simply asked if one cannot expect you to deal with others the same way. And so I ask, once again: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? The answer should be rather simple. A "yes" or a "no" would suffice. Your questions are based on flawed assumptions. I don't expect anything from anyone. I am not looking for approval for my actions. I am not extending that courtesy to others. All i expect from me is what i bring. All i expect from you is whatever you bring. If i find you lacking then i will deride you. If you stand for what you believe in then you will earn a measure of my respect whether you want it or not. It's that simple. Whatever my fellow freecaptains say is their business. SF is not monolithic so saying "SF expects....." and words to that effect is a bit silly because it's meaningless. http://ultravixen.co.uk/
Atandros Gallente Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.09 10:46:00 - [127] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/04/2007 09:53:45 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/04/2007 09:48:27 Originally by: Ituralde Nothing needs being reconsidered, Worm. Cry foul when your vaunted 'Golden Fleets' aren't fleeing from their own capitol, not even stopping to defend your own CEO. Pathetic. You have no ground to stand on. Whilst the loss of Admiral Zhuul's ship was regrettable, you appear to have put just the slightest amount of spin on the events of last night by omitting to mention the Raven, Curse, Armageddon, Dominix, Megathron, Hurricane, Myrmidon, Vagabond and two Deimoses lost by SF shortly beforehand. Now, perhaps you would care to stop focusing on your manly efforts to kill a single ship and instead concentrate on the matter in hand? And you appear to have forgotten the other 7 battleships of yours we destroyed, as well as the total lack of resistance you put up as we chased the remnants of your fleet 5-6 jumps out of Amarr. I suppose you were too disoriented after undocking from that station in Kor-Azor Prime for the first time in days to notice too many details. -------
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.09 10:59:00 - [128] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus B) I did, in fact, send a servant (some would, for some reason, label him an "alt") of mine to the proceedings as it was deemed that his field of expertise was more needed than mine. That should probably count as an extenuating circumstance as well. If you send a servant to fight for you then send him to speak for you also. He'll receive a better hearing than you if he has actually undocked and exchanged fire with us in this war. Star Fraction is recruiting
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.09 11:04:00 - [129] Originally by: Rodj Blake Whilst the loss of Admiral Zhuul's ship was regrettable, you appear to have put just the slightest amount of spin on the events of last night by omitting to mention the Raven, Curse, Armageddon, Dominix, Megathron, Hurricane, Myrmidon, Vagabond and two Deimoses lost by SF shortly beforehand. Now, perhaps you would care to stop focusing on your manly efforts to kill a single ship and instead concentrate on the matter in hand? Thats quite a way to spin the greatest loss of Amarrian Fleet power in Amarr system in the last couple of years Rodj. Fact of the matter is that the PIE fleet was fought to a stand still by a smaller group and then routed by our reinforcements leading to a humiliating pursuit where you ran so fast you left first your CEO to be tackled and ceremonially executed in the ruins of her Armageddon, then your old admiral to meet the same fate a system later when your fleet scattered to the winds blown away by the Fraction storm. This is your capital system we are talking about, now it is the graveyard of your hopes and ambitions. Lets place this in the proper historical context. Star Fraction is recruiting
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.09 11:16:00 - [130] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/04/2007 11:12:56 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Rodj Blake Whilst the loss of Admiral Zhuul's ship was regrettable, you appear to have put just the slightest amount of spin on the events of last night by omitting to mention the Raven, Curse, Armageddon, Dominix, Megathron, Hurricane, Myrmidon, Vagabond and two Deimoses lost by SF shortly beforehand. Now, perhaps you would care to stop focusing on your manly efforts to kill a single ship and instead concentrate on the matter in hand? Thats quite a way to spin the greatest loss of Amarrian Fleet power in Amarr system in the last couple of years Rodj. Fact of the matter is that the PIE fleet was fought to a stand still by a smaller group and then routed by our reinforcements leading to a humiliating pursuit where you ran so fast you left first your CEO to be tackled and ceremonially executed in the ruins of her Armageddon, then your old admiral to meet the same fate a system later when your fleet scattered to the winds blown away by the Fraction storm. This is your capital system we are talking about, now it is the graveyard of your hopes and ambitions. Lets place this in the proper historical context. Firstly, I disagree with pretty much everything you say (thanks for that loot, by the way). Secondly, I fail to see what SF's defeat in Amarr last night has to do with Bloodveil's links with SF. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.09 11:26:00 - [131] Ah the old talking absolute nonsense defense. Okay, enjoy life in Rodj Blake world. Star Fraction is recruiting
Octavinus Augustus Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.09 11:48:00 - [132] Originally by: Azure Skyclad Your questions are based on flawed assumptions. I don't expect anything from anyone. I am not looking for approval for my actions. I am not extending that courtesy to others. Originally by: Azure Skyclad It's that simple. Whatever my fellow freecaptains say is their business. SF is not monolithic so saying "SF expects....." and words to that effect is a bit silly because it's meaningless. So, am I to understand that when an SF official speaks on behalf of your alliance you do not feel any obligation to follow his words? When Mr. Cosmopolite in the very beginning of this thread says that "In the coming weeks, the Star Fraction is resolved to demonstrate that the very heartlands of the Amarr Empire are unsafe" - he has no right to make such comments as they are made on your behalf as well as his own? After all, you are individualists, and not bound by the voices of others, are you not? My question was posed to SF. If you do not feel bound by the words spoken by SF officials, you should certainly not speak that can be interpreted as such. So if there are any of you out there who actually has the authority to speak on behalf on SF as an organisation, the question still stands: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Azure Skyclad Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.09 12:57:00 - [133] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus So, am I to understand that when an SF official speaks on behalf of your alliance you do not feel any obligation to follow his words? Nope. If i do it's because i choose to. Quote: When Mr. Cosmopolite in the very beginning of this thread says that "In the coming weeks, the Star Fraction is resolved to demonstrate that the very heartlands of the Amarr Empire are unsafe" - he has no right to make such comments as they are made on your behalf as well as his own? He has every right to as I didn't object to him being a spokesman for Star Fraction. I may dislike the turd on a personal level but he has a way with words which suits him to his job. If i disagree with SF at any point i voice my dissent. If i feel strongly enough i leave SF. Simple. Quote: After all, you are individualists, and not bound by the voices of others, are you not? Bang on. Quote: My question was posed to SF. If you do not feel bound by the words spoken by SF officials, you should certainly not speak that can be interpreted as such. Hence the liberal use of I in my response. Still part of SF though. Is your noodle done twisting yet? Quote: So if there are any of you out there who actually has the authority to speak on behalf on SF as an organisation, the question still stands: If you expect others to respect your right to fight whomever you wish in whatever way you wish - should you not extend that same courtesy to others? Yes there are those who can speak for the organisation as a whole. The point i'm making is you cannot pin the whole alliance down with a simple Yes or No answer to a stupid question. The only answer you can hope for is a rough time both here on IGS and in space. http://ultravixen.co.uk/
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.09 13:45:00 - [134] Edited by: Archbishop on 09/04/2007 13:42:15 Quote: The only answer you can hope for is a rough time both here on IGS and in space. Like a biology experiment it's always nice to see creatures in their native habitat! Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Khavi Vetali Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.09 14:28:00 - [135] Originally by: Archbishop Edited by: Archbishop on 09/04/2007 13:42:15 Quote: The only answer you can hope for is a rough time both here on IGS and in space. Like a biology experiment it's always nice to see creatures in their native habitat! Archbishop Well, at least SF exists in multiple biospheres... Oooh look! I can make biology jokes too! Originally by: Itanis "Hello there mate, I'm dreadfully sorry, but I'm going to have to sodomize you with howitzers. Have a lovely day!"
Goewyn Ravenclaw Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.04.09 15:19:00 - [136] Edited by: Goewyn Ravenclaw on 09/04/2007 15:18:13 Originally by: Rodj Blake [i]...succeeded in their aims and caused the destruction of the Empire (almost unimaginable, I know). Only 'almost' unimaginable? I find it a rather warming thought to see one of the empires more faithful has considered it as an imaginable possibility. One wonders if his faith is as total as we are led to believe..... (Edit: spelling :P) ______________________________ A closed mouth inserts no foot
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.04.09 17:27:00 - [137] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/04/2007 17:23:33 Originally by: Goewyn Ravenclaw Edited by: Goewyn Ravenclaw on 09/04/2007 15:18:13 Originally by: Rodj Blake ...succeeded in their aims and caused the destruction of the Empire (almost unimaginable, I know). Only 'almost' unimaginable? I find it a rather warming thought to see one of the empires more faithful has considered it as an imaginable possibility. One wonders if his faith is as total as we are led to believe..... (Edit: spelling :P) I can (if I try really hard) imagine a witty and erudite member of Fimbulwinter. It doesn't automatically follow that such a thing is possible though. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.04.09 17:56:00 - [138] Originally by: Archbishop Edited by: Archbishop on 09/04/2007 13:42:15 Quote: The only answer you can hope for is a rough time both here on IGS and in space. Like a biology experiment it's always nice to see creatures in their native habitat! Archbishop I sure hope you don't claim space as your natural habitat, worm. Your personal showing in battle is laughable. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
redialer Minmatar Red Army Inc	Posted - 2007.07.20 01:05:00 - [139] meh.. tis all smak tbh. we both know the score, bring it to us ;) red1 FREEDOM
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.20 21:36:00 - [140] Let's get back on topic shall we Rodj? You have stated that the Bloodveil is jealous of the Amarr Empire. However, throughout history, it was the Empire trying to exterminate the Sani Sabik. I submit to you it is the Empire and its sheep that is jealous of the Sani Sabik. After all the Empire, for it's centuries of existence has tried to exterminate on Athra (and failed) and then try to destroy us among the stars (another failure). I should point out as well you speak of an Empire. But where's the Emperor. Where's the leadership? Scattered into the winds. Now various offices are attempting to act in the Empire's name. Without your precious Emperor as the foundation, the Empire has started to decay from within. It will be only a matter of time before the The Mandate and the Kingdom start setting eyes on Amarr itself. The Star Fraction displayed the ease of the attack. And the Loyalist bloc showed its cowardice. I would think on the day when the Empire Falls (not "if") there will be quite a few entities feeding from that corpse. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.

Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.21 05:50:00 - [141] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel we become unstoppable Join the fighting and then you can use the word "we" in this context. QFT... Or should you run from your precious empire as have your fellow corporations members?
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 07:54:00 - [142] Originally by: Casserina Leshrac Let's get back on topic shall we Rodj? You have stated that the Bloodveil is jealous of the Amarr Empire. However, throughout history, it was the Empire trying to exterminate the Sani Sabik. I submit to you it is the Empire and its sheep that is jealous of the Sani Sabik. After all the Empire, for it's centuries of existence has tried to exterminate on Athra (and failed) and then try to destroy us among the stars (another failure). I should point out as well you speak of an Empire. But where's the Emperor. Where's the leadership? Scattered into the winds. Now various offices are attempting to act in the Empire's name. Without your precious Emperor as the foundation, the Empire has started to decay from within. It will be only a matter of time before the The Mandate and the Kingdom start setting eyes on Amarr itself. The Star Fraction displayed the ease of the attack. And the Loyalist bloc showed its cowardice. I would think on the day when the Empire Falls (not "if") there will be quite a few entities feeding from that corpse. Well spoken Illuminatti. I'm surprised that the true blood loyal to Khanid II didn't realise this yet. Amarr never been so weak. It's the perfect time for a take over. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.21 08:10:00 - [143] Originally by: Casserina Leshrac Let's get back on topic shall we Rodj? You have stated that the Bloodveil is jealous of the Amarr Empire. However, throughout history, it was the Empire trying to exterminate the Sani Sabik. I submit to you it is the Empire and its sheep that is jealous of the Sani Sabik. After all the Empire, for it's centuries of existence has tried to exterminate on Athra (and failed) and then try to destroy us among the stars (another failure). I should point out as well you speak of an Empire. But where's the Emperor. Where's the leadership? Scattered into the winds. Now various offices are attempting to act in the Empire's name. Without your precious Emperor as the foundation, the Empire has started to decay from within. It will be only a matter of time before the The Mandate and the Kingdom start setting eyes on Amarr itself. The Star Fraction displayed the ease of the attack. And the Loyalist bloc showed its cowardice. I would think on the day when the Empire Falls (not "if") there will be quite a few entities feeding from that corpse. It's good to see a detailed response from Bloodveil. It may be a bit lightweight for something that's taken three months to prepare, but never mind. I shall respond to your points in the order that they were submitted. I maintain that Bloodveil is jealous of the successes of the Empire. Why else would a smaller group seek to overthrow a larger, more successful one? Why else would the smaller group seek to corrupt all that is good about the larger one? If the Bloodveil had actually achieved anything of merit during its life, then there might be a case for saying that jealousy was not the driving force behind their actions. However, when on one hand we have the most successful political and theological social structures ever seen in human history, and on the other we have a sect that seeks to conquer the whole of the cluster and yet whose greatest achievements are the organisation of****tail parties, then it's clear that jealousy is the driving force behind the bile and hatred on display. Now onto your claims that the Empire is without leadership. One of the great strengths of the Amarrian political system is its decentralised nature. Individual heirs, holders and ministries all have clearly defined roles in our society, and have been getting on with their jobs during the interregnum. Whilst we rely on an Emperor for guidance and it is preferable to have an Emperor rather than be without one, the Empire is more than capable of surviving and prospering during those periods between the death of one and the coronation of another. Finally, your assertion that the Star Fraction's efforts have shown the Empire to be weak and that the Kingdom and Mandate will soon be capitalising on this. Relations between the Empire and its neighbours have never been better. Both the Kingdom and the Mandate know that they have more to gain from co-operation with the Empire than from conflict. As for the Star Fraction, their impact upon PIE was minimal (in fact, PIE is in many ways stronger now than before the SF's ill-judged declaration of war on us) and their impact upon the Empire was non-existant. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.*
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 08:40:00 - [144] You talk of Bloodveil as an Empire itself, which, in many ways it holds truth. But saying that Bloodveil is jealous because we don't hold Sovereignity of geographic spaces or stations with agents and such in comparison to Amarr is quite too much of a way out, even for you Rodj. Blood veil has achieved each and every single objective I set for it, since it's creation. From the bossom of Dark Seraph as an exclusive cult of our holy personalities, bloodveil came forth declaring a little of our faith and making an impact in the cluster. This, all by our own hands with no need of Dead emperors, Gods or misguided lies. We are invincible because we exist firmly and stronger with no dependence of other people's faith. Now let's turn the coin. What is PIE without Amarr Empire? What is your faith other then a faith given to you by the Amarr Authorities. What is your supposed strengh, other than a non existant entity you call God. What have you created, what have you accomplished by yourself other than feeding on the rest that Amarr let fall from its table. The Sani Sabik has order and leadership under my Sovereignity. Amarr has chaos and weakness under a dead Emperor. The Sani Sabik movements and owns fortunes by the machines of politics and wars. You depend of your whoring tactics with Amarrian agents to have the bread of each day on your table. Let me remind you of the failure of The cult of Cathequization and it's leader, the official inquisition of Amarr Empire that came here and sworn to eliminate Bloodveil and specialy myself. The final result being several of their corpses on my hangar and the extermination of their own institution. Even the Amarr Empire itself could not stop the mighty of Bloodveil. What makes you fear Rodj is the inevitable and sole truth: To fight a ideology you need to present something better. Amarr is a dying Empire. You're a dying breed. The Sani Sabik fills the void with a new World Order. We shall wash the floor when your dust is all that is left covering the golden streets of the capital. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.21 08:55:00 - [145] Lots of rhetoric there Revan, but let's look at Bloodveil's recent history: Bloodveil failed to make any impact on the inhabitants of the Fensi system, despite their claims. Bloodveil failed to achieve any more than the lowest of pirates in the Kheram system, despite their claims. Bloodveil has still to get anywhere near the empty system of Atioth, despite their call to arms. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 09:10:00 - [146] Originally by: Rodj Blake Lots of rhetoric there Revan, but let's look at Bloodveil's recent history: Bloodveil failed to make any impact on the inhabitants of the Fensi system, despite their claims. Bloodveil failed to achieve any more than the lowest of pirates in the Kheram system, despite their claims. Bloodveil has still to get anywhere near the empty system of Atioth, despite their call to arms. Lies and empty rethoric out of your ignorance Fensi planet still prosperes under Blodveil religion majority and tributes are paid to me weekly of several institutions. Actually, the system only properes still because I'm kind enough to continue business there. Fensi without Bloodveil money would fall into poverty. Several systems of Amarr already knows they can't count on loyalists to maintain their economical stability, as your greedy selfish kind never invests to see your people propere. Fensi is jus one example of the Glory of the Sani Sabik. Bloodveil eliminated over two thousand vessels in a month presence at the region, making our objective complete with disruptions of paramilitary logistics including the destruction of some dizzy loyalists pilots who happened to cross our ways. Bloodveil presence at Kheran was absolute and when the amarrian wars became no longer an issue by complete dominance and victory of Star Fraction, Bloodveil also moved to it's next steps. The only failure here was your defeat and lack of ability to stop the mayhem Bloodveil was able to cause. Atioth is An Amarr obligation, Bloodveil is just leading the expedition. Bloodveil already allocated several capital vessels to system and the operations proceeds unstopable. The only failure is again, the lack of Amarr loyalist presence. The words "Loyalists" and "failure" are synonyms. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 16:27:00 - [147] An observation if may? In the past the Empire looks towards the Emperor. Throughout my schooling it was this one person that held the Empire together. If the empire was a brick house, the Emperor the mortar. Even the Royal Chamberlain has remained quiet and I am to understand he rules in place of Emperor, when he is absent. Where is he? The Emperor is gone. The house is falling and you don't have the sense to get out. One of principal problems is the decentralized nature of the government. As a result each office, each agency is a power onto itself. Each has the ability to generate its own fund to further its own agenda contrary to the true needs of the Empire. In addition, where was the Imperial Navy during the invasion of Amarr? Protecting jump gates in accordance to CONCORD policy. To say that this was only corp vs. corp war between PIE and SF would be grossly incorrect.The spiritual and physical center of the Empire was occupied by an enemy force that dominated the whole system. In times before CONCORD, the Navy would not put up with such nonsense. Not when the Emperor's seat and the Theology Council are vulnerable to attack from either side. The Navy would've ended the war quickly and efficiently and then set upon the task to lay the blame. It is evident to those in the Sani Sabik that the Empire of old is dead. There is no Emperor, the government is in chaos (though you deny it Rodj), and its people have become slaves and servants to CONCORD. I predict that it will be matter of time before the Khanid or the Ammatar will make a move to centralize the Empire under their banners because it will be in their best interests to do so. And they, like others that came before them, will have to deal with the Sani Sabik. This time we'll be holding the keys to the gate Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.21 17:49:00 - [148] Originally by: Revan Neferis The words "Loyalists" and "failure" are synonyms. Have a look at Providence, little girl. Your worth is easily measured in dust, while the Empire stands strong. However, the post count attributed to your stupidity is impressive. ----------------------------------------------
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 19:38:00 - [149] Originally by: Gaius Kador Originally by: Revan Neferis The words "Loyalists" and "failure" are synonyms. Have a look at Providence, little girl. Your worth is easily measured in dust, while the Empire stands strong. However, the post count attributed to your stupidity is impressive. Good heaven's when I think you have exposed all your stupidity it comes more! Providence is not even AMARR EMPIRE SOVEREIGNITY you ignorant animal. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:34:00 - [150] Originally by: Revan Neferis Originally by: Gaius Kador Originally by: Revan Neferis The words "Loyalists" and "failure" are synonyms. Have a look at Providence, little girl. Your worth is easily measured in dust, while the Empire stands strong. However, the post count attributed to your stupidity is impressive. Providence is not even AMARR EMPIRE SOVEREIGNITY you ignorant animal. Clever deflection, but let's remember: Providence is a measurable success of loyalists. A success beyond which Bloodveil has experienced on any level: military, economic, or idealogically.

Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:44:00 - [151] Edited by: Revan Neferis on 21/07/2007 21:44:23 Originally by: Garreck Clever deflection, but let's remember: Providence is a measurable success of loyalists. A success beyond which Bloodveil has experienced on any level: military, economic, or idealogically. To the contrary. Providence is the reflex of your failure. Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. So far, you have proven nothing other then hanging around one of porest 0.0 regions of deep space. Bloodveil has no interest on territorial conquests, therefore your assumption is also out of any reason. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:51:00 - [152] Originally by: Revan Neferis To the contrary. Providence is the reflex of your failure. Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. So far, you have proven nothing other then hanging around one of porest 0.0 regions of deep space. Bloodveil has no interest on territorial conquests, therefore your assumption is also out of any reason. Another deflection. You spoke of failures and loyalists. I give you Providence. Explain, in measurable terms, how Providence is a failure of any kind. I'll even do you a favor and leave comparisons with Bloodveil efforts out of the picture.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:13:00 - [153] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis To the contrary. Providence is the reflex of your failure. Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. So far, you have proven nothing other then hanging around one of porest 0.0 regions of deep space. Bloodveil has no interest on territorial conquests, therefore your assumption is also out of any reason. Another deflection. You spoke of failures and loyalists. I give you Providence. Explain, in measurable terms, how Providence is a failure of any kind. I'll even do you a favor and leave comparisons with Bloodveil efforts out of the picture. Originally by: Revan Neferis Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:23:00 - [154] Originally by: Revan Neferis Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. You're slow today. I never mentioned reclaiming. I said success, and I said Loyalists, and I said Providence. You've done nothing to disassociate the three.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:15:00 - [155] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. You're slow today. I never mentioned reclaiming. I said success, and I said Loyalists, and I said Providence. You've done nothing to disassociate the three. None of the three represents anything to the discussion. You have no sucess, you are not loyalists, otherwise Providence would be at Amarr Sovereignity already, and your dealings in Providence interests me as little as any other 0.0 lost small alliance with low profitability. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:22:00 - [156] Edited by: Garreck on 21/07/2007 23:22:49 Originally by: Revan Neferis None of the three represents anything to the discussion. You made them so when you said that Loyalists were synonimous with failure. Originally by: Revan Neferis You have no sucess, you are not loyalists, otherwise Providence would be at Amarr Sovereignity already, and your dealings in Providence interests me as little as any other 0.0 lost small alliance with low profitability. Our success is to provide a haven for all loyalists as well as merchants in lawless space. Our success is to have pushed out a hated enemy of the empire and all who do not embrace the policy of "not red, don't shoot." Our success is to bring several alliances and small organizations together who buy into the policy of "not red, don't shoot" and who cooperate together for mutual defense and profit. Our success is to turn a low profitability area into a high profitability area (come check out the ever expanding market some time.) If the Empire deigns to take Providence off of our hands, the success will be completed...but we have been successful to a great degree in all tangible, measurable areas. If this were not so, you would not be recycling an argument that has no bearing on our current success what-so-ever.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:47:00 - [157] Originally by: Garreck Edited by: Garreck on 21/07/2007 23:22:49 Originally by: Revan Neferis None of the three represents anything to the discussion. You made them so when you said that Loyalists were synonimous with failure. Originally by: Revan Neferis You have no sucess, you are not loyalists, otherwise Providence would be at Amarr Sovereignity already, and your dealings in Providence interests me as little as any other 0.0 lost small alliance with low profitability. Our success is to provide a haven for all loyalists as well as merchants in lawless space. Our success is to have pushed out a hated enemy of the empire and all who do not embrace the policy of "not red, don't shoot." Our success is to bring several alliances and small organizations together who buy into the policy of "not red, don't shoot" and who cooperate together for mutual defense and profit. Our success is to turn a low profitability area into a high profitability area (come check out the ever expanding market some time.) If the Empire deigns to take Providence off of our hands, the success will be completed...but we have been successful to a great degree in all tangible, measurable areas. If this were not so, you would not be recycling an argument that has no bearing on our current success what-so-ever. You did nothing other then chase an inferior race of monkeys. No service for the Empire, no expansion for its boarders. And I already said I don't consider your kind as loyalist. You are loyal to your own cause. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:51:00 - [158] Originally by: Revan Neferis And I already said I don't consider your kind as loyalist. You are loyal to your own cause. Fair enough. Welcome to the ranks of those ignorant enough to consider your organization to be "Blood Raiders."
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:55:00 - [159] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis And I already said I don't consider your kind as loyalist. You are loyal to your own cause. Fair enough. Welcome to the ranks of those ignorant enough to consider your organization to be "Blood Raiders." No, I'm not welcome at CVA ranks. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:59:00 - [160] Originally by: Revan Neferis No, I'm not welcome at CVA ranks. Zing! The point stands. Failure to consider CVA loyalists is as ignorant from our perspective as comparisons between Bloodveil and Blood Raiders is to yours. And that ignorance a) is not my problem and b) not at all related to the success of loyalists in Providence. It is appropriate that the only response you have to the CVA's efforts in Providence is to discount the CVA as loyalists altogether...

Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 00:01:00 - [161] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis No, I'm not welcome at CVA ranks. Zing! The point stands. Failure to consider CVA loyalists is as ignorant from our perspective as comparisons between Bloodveil and Blood Raiders is to yours. And that ignorance a) is not my problem and b) not at all related to the success of loyalists in Providence. It is appropriate that the only response you have to the CVA's efforts in Providence is to discount the CVA as loyalists altogether... Ask me again when you give Providence to Amarr Empire. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 02:51:00 - [162] Originally by: Garreck Our success is to provide a haven for all loyalists as well as merchants in lawless space. Our success is to have pushed out a hated enemy of the empire and all who do not embrace the policy of "not red, don't shoot." Our success is to bring several alliances and small organizations together who buy into the policy of "not red, don't shoot" and who cooperate together for mutual defense and profit. Our success is to turn a low profitability area into a high profitability area (come check out the ever expanding market some time.) If the Empire deigns to take Providence off of our hands, the success will be completed...but we have been successful to a great degree in all tangible, measurable areas. If this were not so, you would not be recycling an argument that has no bearing on our current success what-so-ever. So again explain how Providence is apart of the Amarr Empire? Can you tell which agency of the Empire will gladly relinquish to? All I see is a glorified spin story about aggression against innocents behind the banner of a non-existent Emperor. Those that you did chase away, you failed to eliminate completely. They will be back and in greater numbers, such is the way of the Minmatar. I would suggest that now there is nothing to do in Providence you do everything you can to shore up that pretty little alliance of yours. With no prey to feed from, the true predators will turn on the others consuming them in the feast of cannibalism. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 03:02:00 - [163] Edited by: Garreck on 22/07/2007 03:07:42 Originally by: Casserina Leshrac So again explain how Providence is apart of the Amarr Empire? Can you tell which agency of the Empire will gladly relinquish to? I see cognitive dissonance is an organizational trait. The quote at hand is "Loyalist and failure are synonyms." The truth at hand is that the CVA, a loyalist organization, is quite plainly a success, not a failure. And our success is found at the hand of brother loyalist organizations. Originally by: Casserina Leshrac All I see is a glorified spin story about aggression against innocents behind the banner of a non-existent Emperor. Point out the flaws in my factual statements, then. Better yet, prove me wrong in space. Originally by: Casserina Leshrac Those that you did chase away, you failed to eliminate completely. They will be back and in greater numbers, such is the way of the Minmatar. We'll see. The tenacity of Ushra'Khan has never been in doubt. Originally by: Casserina Leshrac I would suggest that now there is nothing to do in Providence you do everything you can to shore up that pretty little alliance of yours. With no prey to feed from, the true predators will turn on the others consuming them in the feast of cannibalism. Pretty fluff, Bloodveil style, but I can assure you the break in action is being taken full advantage of. I'm eager to see who's next in line to step beyond the safety of the Intergallactic Summit and really show CVA how worthless we are.
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:24:00 - [164] I think you are confusing worth with relevance. Perhaps if you spent the time attempting to preserve the Empire instead striking out on your own into Providence you might actually be relevant. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 06:00:00 - [165] Originally by: Casserina Leshrac I think you are confusing worth with relevance. Progress! If Ms Neferis had referred to the loyalists as "irrelevant," I would have kept my peace...soldiers have little relevance to social climbers and visa-versa. The last time Ms Neferis was "relevant" to the CVA or the CVA to her, I collected two of her corpses as well as many of her fellow socialites and band of mercs. I'm sure Bloodveil are quite content for the CVA to remain irrelevant...and that deterence is just one contribution of the CVA to the preservation of the Empire. You cannot simply "talk" the CVA out of its effectiveness. To say that stablizing lawless borders of Empire space is not a service to the Empire is ignorance. To say that providing a guiding hand to developing organizations in the name of that Empire is not service is ignorance. And yet, that's all Bloodveil is left with...because for all the talk, Bloodveil finds themselves on the outside of tangible success and looking in. At the irrelevant CVA.
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 07:34:00 - [166] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Casserina Leshrac I think you are confusing worth with relevance. Progress! If Ms Neferis had referred to the loyalists as "irrelevant," I would have kept my peace...soldiers have little relevance to social climbers and visa-versa. The last time Ms Neferis was "relevant" to the CVA or the CVA to her, I collected two of her corpses as well as many of her fellow socialites and band of mercs. I'm sure Bloodveil are quite content for the CVA to remain irrelevant...and that deterence is just one contribution of the CVA to the preservation of the Empire. You cannot simply "talk" the CVA out of its effectiveness. To say that stablizing lawless borders of Empire space is not a service to the Empire is ignorance. To say that providing a guiding hand to developing organizations in the name of that Empire is not service is ignorance. And yet, that's all Bloodveil is left with...because for all the talk, Bloodveil finds themselves on the outside of tangible success and looking in. At the irrelevant CVA. If you are outside the Empire like you are in Providence then you are not doing the work of the Empire. Rather, its greed and power-mongering. Pure and simple. Never send a Gallente to do the work for an Amarr Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 08:52:00 - [167] Last time I glanced my eyes upon CVA, over 20 billion in damage was done, 2 alliances broken ( CVA Allied)and I left with a 7 Billion profit to Verisum and all Coalition. The only reason why I retreated the wars was the betrayal of Grand Master Horm who implored me to stop the wars for the sake of saving Amarr loyalists of a shameful defeat. To finish this discussion, once for all let me say that the wars against CVA ARE PAST. This because I lost all respect for their pilots. They have no cause, no heart and fighting them is no different then fight any other 0.0 alliance with all insults and smack of commoners. Once for all, I have no interest on investing at Providence with its gruesome pilots and poor economical flux. Cry as much as you want Garreck. You are alone, isolated with your greed and boredom, defending a region that contains monkeys and the poorest ores and economical business in all of eve and beating your chest about it. Amarr Empire doesn't even ackowledge your existance. Providence IS a hot potato you have to hold it now and see it burning in your hands because no one gives a damn about it. Or come here and scream to the monkeys, they are more willing to play your kind. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:17:00 - [168] Originally by: Revan Neferis Or come here and scream to the monkeys, they are more willing to play your kind. A couple of monkeys have deigned to scream back...did I push a button, Revan? You write us off because for all the damage you feel you did and for all the inflated statistics, it was your alliance that was broken while we came through your war stronger than when it started, and are of course stronger now than then. Measurably so. That bothers you. So you downplay the importance and the success of those who defy your self-inflated immage of invincibility. It's a common approach to defeat in this Summit. CVA are a constant reminder that you cannot have your way with the paramilitaries. We are "past" because you failed entirely against us. Now you are reduced to boasting of power you do not have, and you get offended when those with power remind you that you have none. Compare us to "just any other 0.0 alliance" all you choose, it doesn't take away from our success...and it does not conceal your failure.
Keerie Jeanmot Gallente Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:26:00 - [169] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis Or come here and scream to the monkeys, they are more willing to play your kind. A couple of monkeys have deigned to scream back...did I push a button, Revan? You write us off because for all the damage you feel you did and for all the inflated statistics, it was your alliance that was broken while we came through your war stronger than when it started, and are of course stronger now than then. Measurably so. That bothers you. So you downplay the importance and the success of those who defy your self-inflated immage of invincibility. It's a common approach to defeat in this Summit. CVA are a constant reminder that you cannot have your way with the paramilitaries. We are "past" because you failed entirely against us. Now you are reduced to boasting of power you do not have, and you get offended when those with power remind you that you have none. Compare us to "just any other 0.0 alliance" all you choose, it doesn't take away from our success...and it does not conceal your failure. I pitty you.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:30:00 - [170] We heard it all before, even at the wars against Star Fraction.... Rush Garreck, there is a UK monkey eating bananas at one of your asteroid belts! "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"

Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:33:00 - [171] Originally by: Keerie Jeanmot I pitty you. Hey, maybe I can pity you too. And then we can have a nice circle-jerk of condescension and see who can out-condescend the other. Or maybe we can leave the discussion where it is: with Revan writing off CVA as loyalists and therefore irrelevant in their success. I'm content with that. Just figured I'd dig a little and find where this whole "loyalists are failures" theorem was rooted. Now I understand.
Keerie Jeanmot Gallente Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:36:00 - [172] Originally by: Revan Neferis We heard it all before, even at the wars against Star Fraction.... Rush Garreck, there is a UK monkey eating bananas at one of your asteroid belts!
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:55:00 - [173] Garreck, you can't reason with these people - trust me, I've tried and failed continously. They believe that taking 4 weeks to organize an expedition to an empty system outshines "building" and controlling a region with 4 stations and a well developed infrastructure. They believe that opening a vast region of space to commerce and trade by civilians counts for less than ganking a few haulers on autopilot. They believe that they are the members of a religious organisation not believeing in GOD. Obviously they never even bothered looking at the teachings of the Sani Sabik cults before stealing their name in order to have some of the "fame" rub on on their own petty band of misfits. They believe that slavery should be outlawed - no wait, that was last month. They believe any slave has a right to rebel against their owners - no wait, that was last week. They believe that the Minmatar are "monkeys" - no wait, that belief will change tomorrow. Their beliefs are "flavor of the day". Garreck, why do you bother? The only question I personally would like to see an answer ot is this: How can Star Fraction claim friendship with an organisation that claims another of their friends are monkeys? Does their "fractional" beliefs allow such disdain for their U'K allies or will one of their friendships turn sour? I know Star Fraction houses many honorable pilots (and a few less so). It surprise me that they can quietly accept such treatment of their friends and allies. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 16:17:00 - [174] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus rabble rabble Try again. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:52:00 - [175] Originally by: Revan Neferis Try again. Is he wrong? If so, how? Can you address his points, or is the standard sub-standard "brush-off" all you are left with?
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:58:00 - [176] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis Try again. Is he wrong? If so, how? Can you address his points, or is the standard sub-standard "brush-off" all you are left with? Because he is wrong and at the moment I have 52 guests at my party to take care of. If you want to address the same subject over and over again under your twisted views, I recommend you to simply make a search of last 1 year posts and spend 3 hours reading it. It'll spare us time and save the readers of repetitive rethorics from both sides. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 18:07:00 - [177] Originally by: Revan Neferis If you want to address the same subject over and over again under your twisted views, I recommend you to simply make a search of last 1 year posts and spend 3 hours reading it. It'll spare us time and save the readers of repetitive rethorics from both sides. So that's "yes," then. I've little interest in 3 hours' worth of brush-offs that I was fully party to over the past year anyway. Enjoy the party, Revan. It was not my intention to rudely interupt. Do give my regards to Mr. Cosmopolite if he's present...he's another ideological foe who provides appreciated discussion, if never any real resolution.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:30:00 - [178] I have said all that I need to say on the topic of this thread and as to the rather foolish attempts to draw us into the current argument, I only say that we are not the keepers of the Sani Sabik or the Ushra'Khan and that which is between them is none of our business. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:09:00 - [179] In response to this entire thread, I'd just like to say - As long as Loyalist Amarrians are still dying, I wouldn't care if it was being done by an alliance of child molesters and drug dealers. ----- I think it's little enough to ask that every Amarrian roll over and die so I can live in my vision of a perfect world.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:49:00 - [180] Originally by: The Cosmopolite I have said all that I need to say on the topic of this thread and as to the rather foolish attempts to draw us into the current argument, I only say that we are not the keepers of the Sani Sabik or the Ushra'Khan and that which is between them is none of our business. The Cosmopolite I think I must have caught you in a bad moment, Mr Cosmopolite. I posted a question regarding your understanding of the concept of friendship. This was done due to an honest interest in understanding how your outlook differ from mine, which it obviously does. You have answered my question for which I am grateful. If a friend of mine stand falsely accused I will stand by him in support. I will even defend an enemy being falsely accused - my sense of honor sees to that. And calling our U'K enemies monkies is certainly something they do not deserve. I believe most Amarr Loyalists would testify that the U'K has been skilled and worthy opponents. Also, I know of few monkies armed with Tech II autocannon - although some entertaining images does spring to mind. As for the "foolish attempts to draw us into the current argument" let's just leave it at that - it was never my intention. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.

Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.23 00:03:00 - [181] I find it very interesting that the Loyalist Bloc seems to involved on creating mass hysteria for the general audience. It has been implied that Usha'Khan, Star Fraction and the Sani Sabik are acting in concert against the Empire. The reality is further from the truth. The truth is that above mentioned agencies have done more to inspire fear and terror amongst the corps and allied corps of the Loyalist Bloc. In many cases terrorizing these corps into siding with the Loyalists. This is the true face of terrorism. Not the Sani Sabik or the Star Fraction Alliances. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Mattduk Gallente Universal Army	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:20:00 - [182] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus They believe that taking 4 weeks to organize an expedition to an empty system outshines "building" and controlling a region with 4 stations and a well developed infrastructure. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that two of those stations were not 'built' by CVA, but stolen through violence and bloodshed. Correct me if I am wrong.
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:12:00 - [183] Octavinus, it would be presumptuous of us to speak for either the Ushra'Khan or the Sani Sabik. Both are more than capable of standing on their two feet and defending themselves both publicly and ideologically. As such, any conflict between them is their business alone, not ours. While of course we would prefer there were no conflict between our allies, that is something that is up to them, not us, to work out. I am confident both sides would tell you the same thing. Free people prefer to speak for themselves. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:23:00 - [184] Originally by: Casserina Leshrac It has been implied that Usha'Khan, Star Fraction and the Sani Sabik are acting in concert against the Empire. The reality is further from the truth. Is it not true that the Star Fraction assisted the Ushra'Khan in their doomed defence of Karishal's Folly? Is it not true that the Ushra'Khan and Star Fraction joined forces during the recent Doriam II memorial service? Is it not true that the leaders of Bloodveil and The Star Fraction are in regular contact with each other? Is it not true that senior members of the Star Fraction have in this very thread referred to both the Star Fraction and Bloodveil as their allies? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:24:00 - [185] Originally by: Mattduk Originally by: Octavinus Augustus They believe that taking 4 weeks to organize an expedition to an empty system outshines "building" and controlling a region with 4 stations and a well developed infrastructure. I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that two of those stations were not 'built' by CVA, but stolen through violence and bloodshed. Correct me if I am wrong. Have you checked how many outposts the CVA controls in Providence? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
MorbidReality Minmatar The Templars Knights	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:42:00 - [186] I have been following this and couple of other threads concerning the Amarr empire and/or Bloodveil out of pure curiousity, and wherever I read a post by a Bloodveil I sometimes see apes and monkeys mentioned and likely used to give a short description to the Minmatar (unless I am misunderstanding something). This confuses me, since in thread about the Sani Sabik, it clearly states that several paths in the cult are open to all races, yet there are statements like "inferior race of monkeys", and it is hard to think that members of that race would be welcome into the cult. I would be happy if someone (preferredly someone of Bloodveil) could clear this up for me. I am not trying to criticize, I am trying to understand. (( I am not an RPer myself, but this stuff is quite interesting and fun to read. ))
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:41:00 - [187] Originally by: Revan Neferis Originally by: Gaius Kador Originally by: Revan Neferis The words "Loyalists" and "failure" are synonyms. Have a look at Providence, little girl. Your worth is easily measured in dust, while the Empire stands strong. However, the post count attributed to your stupidity is impressive. Good heaven's when I think you have exposed all your stupidity it comes more! Providence is not even AMARR EMPIRE SOVEREIGNITY you ignorant animal. Wonderful! I am certain you can jump a little bit higher next time, however. ----------------------------------------------
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.23 17:30:00 - [188] Originally by: MorbidReality Edited by: MorbidReality on 23/07/2007 17:05:54 Edited by: MorbidReality on 23/07/2007 14:57:35 I have been following this and couple of other discussions concerning the Amarr empire and/or Bloodveil out of pure curiousity, and when I read a reply by a Bloodveil I sometimes see apes and monkeys mentioned and likely used to give a short description to the Minmatar, unless I am misunderstanding something. This confuses me, since in public information thread about the Sani Sabik and Bloodveil, it clearly states that several paths in the cult are open to all races, yet there are statements like "inferior race of monkeys", and it is hard to think that members of that race would be welcome into the cult. It would be appreciated if someone, preferredly someone of Bloodveil, could clear this up for me. I am not trying to criticize, I am trying to understand. (( OOC I am not an RPer myself, but this stuff is quite interesting and fun to read. )) Other sects of the Sani Sabik Faith (not the alliance under Bloodveil) have their own rules to their membership. And certainly they are allowed to have their own views in regards to the lesser races in their membership. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.07.23 18:52:00 - [189] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Casserina Leshrac It has been implied that Usha'Khan, Star Fraction and the Sani Sabik are acting in concert against the Empire. The reality is further from the truth. Is it not true that the Star Fraction assisted the Ushra'Khan in their doomed defence of Karishal's Folly? Is it not true that the Ushra'Khan and Star Fraction joined forces during the recent Doriam II memorial service? I can say that's all true. As it has been pointed out before, a common interest coincided here. But why do you point out brief instances in time as if they are an everyday occurance? Especially considering just how long ago those events were. Can you name a more recent and consistent set of events? And regarding the whole Bloodviel-Star Fraction thing you have been ranting about, perhaps you missed it when it was stated numerous times how they share some common ideals and goals. Do you understand the difference between the far off future and the present? Their long term goals may not mesh, but right now, their goals do. Originally by: Rodj Blake Have you checked how many outposts the CVA controls in Providence? I have. Some of us have waved as we raced by while you were all safely tucked away in the docking bay of those outposts.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.23 20:02:00 - [190] Originally by: Derran Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Casserina Leshrac It has been implied that Usha'Khan, Star Fraction and the Sani Sabik are acting in concert against the Empire. The reality is further from the truth. Is it not true that the Star Fraction assisted the Ushra'Khan in their doomed defence of Karishal's Folly? Is it not true that the Ushra'Khan and Star Fraction joined forces during the recent Doriam II memorial service? I can say that's all true. As it has been pointed out before, a common interest coincided here. But why do you point out brief instances in time as if they are an everyday occurance? Especially considering just how long ago those events were. Can you name a more recent and consistent set of events? Considering the fact that this discussion has been in hibernation for three months, surely the events of three weeks ago are recent enough for you? Quote: And regarding the whole Bloodviel-Star Fraction thing you have been ranting about, perhaps you missed it when it was stated numerous times how they share some common ideals and goals. Do you understand the difference between the far off future and the present? Their long term goals may not mesh, but right now, their goals do. Hardly a rant, however, I refer you to the part of this discussion where I point out the ideological differences between Bloodveil and Star Fraction, and that the only objective that they share is the overthrow of the Empire. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.

Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 12:29:00 - [191] Originally by: Rodj Blake Hardly a rant, however, I refer you to the part of this discussion where I point out the ideological differences between Bloodveil and Star Fraction, and that the only objective that they share is the overthrow of the Empire. As the readers of this forum have had to suffer for years now Rodj: since you are clearly incapable of understanding the merest element of Star Fraction ideological philosophy its difficult to see how you can presume to lecture anybody about ideological differences between us and anyone else. Simply accept that your nationalist mind cannot conceive that an organisation exists that literally does not care about the interactions of third parties and doesn't consider itself bound to police or comment on those interactions where it is literally none of our business. Star Fraction has fought and humiliated the Amarrian nationalists Rodj - at this point that is all you need to remember and let the knowledge of your weakness in the testing bring a shiver to your palid skin when you wake from vivid nightmares in the small hours. Who knows, we might never come back. Perhaps six months from now you can convince yourself that the whole episode never happened and PIE have an uncheckered history of continual victory and martial accomplishment. Whatever Rodj - But do not presume to claim you understand us. You understand nothing and your painfully transparent attempts at manipulation are childish and pathetic and serve only as a clown's ministrations in the shadow of your complete martial collapse as a force of one-time significance in the affairs of nations and post-national entities. Star Fraction is recruiting
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.24 12:40:00 - [192] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 24/07/2007 12:43:00 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 24/07/2007 12:42:27 Edited by: Rodj Blake on 24/07/2007 12:41:56 Jasmine, perhaps you should go back and read the first few pages of this discussion, where I lay out the evidence that the only area where the fundamental policies of SF, Bloodveil and the assorted Minmatar terrorist cells coincide is in their hatred of the Empire. Nobody from any of those three groups has provided evidence of a single overlap of substantive policies. As for your tired old line about the SF humiliating us, do I really need to list the lies that you are proven to have told regarding our conflict yet again? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:34:00 - [193] Originally by: Rodj Blake As for your tired old line about the SF humiliating us, do I really need to list the lies that you are proven to have told regarding our conflict yet again? There is no point whatsoever in you listing your lies and false accusations claiming other people are "lying" Rodj. The only people that believe a word you say are brainwashed Amarrian nationalists and dupes of amarrian nationalists. Most everyone else quietly wishes you'd simply stop or disappear but is wary of verbalising such thoughts through fear of being the recipients of fresh bouts of Rodj-esq frenetic outpourings. As for me, well, I'm happy we humiliated you personnally on several occassions in the recent war and your entire nationalist community in the Vigil for the worm-emperor that our alliance played a significant hand in turning into a blood-soaked carnage for loyalists on the last day of the war. Spin away the loss of 90% of your battlegroup and your personal podding in the wreckage of the ship your predecessor used to flee from the battlefield in as you like Rodj - but personally I have more respect for the intelligence of the average reader and will let them reach their own conclusions as to what happened there. But the point of this thread now (as then) is that you are desperately afraid of your enemies and though you understand precisely nothing of our SF idealogy you can't help but rattle out substandard attempts at intrigue and manipulation to try and improve your position. But don't worry Rodj! The war is over and you can now undock safely once again. You really don't have to keep doing this. Back to sleep and serving the Amarrian agents. Carry garbage to Sarum Prime for profit! Mine some Omber in Mista! Enjoy the sights of your homeland once again. Go be free, enjoy the respite. Our gift to you. Peace has come so go play reenactment games with the Electus Matari around chosen stargates. You "earned" it. Star Fraction is recruiting
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:40:00 - [194] Think what you like Jasmine, but every shot of ours is as real as yours. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:48:00 - [195] Originally by: Evanda Char Think what you like Jasmine, but every shot of ours is as real as yours. Yes we heard about your "vigils" and public expressions of mutual respect at the parade for the worm-emperor. But your business is your own of course - you have no need to justify your "worth" to me. Star Fraction is recruiting
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.24 13:55:00 - [196] We lost 90% of our battle group? That's odd, because not only did the SF need to team up with U'K to even compete with the loyalist fleet (thus nicely proving the truth of my original post here), but the loyalists held the field of conflict. As for losses, the data that I have seen suggest that the combined loyalist force inflicted more losses on the combined anarcho-terrorist force than were received. Since you seem so eager to be reminded of your previous lies, how about these as examples: * The claim by Jasmine that PIE Inc had been rendered impotent by the SF "occupation" of Amarr - proven false not only through our regular movements through Amarr but also by our escorting Brother Joshua on his travels and our involvement in the assault on Minmatar-occupied Providence. * The claim by Jasmine that Brother Joshua had somehow clone-jumped through an SF camp in the Kor-Azor system - proven false by the fact that thousands of people without access to cloning technology accompanied him and also arrived safely at their destination. * The claim by Jasmine that TES Ark Imperial (Archon class) had only contributed to the assault on Minmatar-occupied Providence by sitting within a starbase's shields and deploying its fighters remotely - proven false by the fact that such a thing is not possible. In fact, TES Ark Imperial saw action on the front lines in that campaign, both sustaining damage and inflicting damage on the enemy using drones (as well as fighters) * The claim by Jasmine that PIE Inc. struggled to put more than three pilots in space at a time - proven false not only by the subsequent holographic evidence presented to this forum but also by our involvement in operations since then. * The claim by Jasmine that SF post "war diaries" for all of their wars - proven false by the absence of a diary for some of their wars. Need I go on? Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Evanda Char Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.24 14:01:00 - [197] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Evanda Char Think what you like Jasmine, but every shot of ours is as real as yours. Yes we heard about your "vigils" and public expressions of mutual respect at the parade for the worm-emperor. But your business is your own of course - you have no need to justify your "worth" to me. You didn't hear well, then, because there weren't any. But yes, we chose not to interrupt a vigil for a dead man. Where the Amarr do not affect my people, they are welcome to their rites and rituals. We have no eye for conquest - we simply want our people free, and that is the message we chose to send. We have a purpose above and beyond merely impacting the wallets of our enemies, and every soul set free is our result. -Eva- Electus Matari - taking it one bad guy at a time
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 15:34:00 - [198] Originally by: Rodj Blake Need I go on? Don't let me stop you making a fool of yourself Star Fraction is recruiting
Khavi Vetali Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 17:08:00 - [199] Originally by: Evanda Char We have a purpose above and beyond merely impacting the wallets of our enemies, and every soul set free is our result. I would think that you would know better. If you are implying that that is our singular purpose perhaps you should open your eyes and try setting your perceptions "free." If that is not your implication...carry on. Quote: Tyger! Tyger! burning bright; In the forests of the night, What immortal hand or eye; Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.24 18:00:00 - [200] Originally by: Rodj Blake Nobody from any of those three groups has provided evidence of a single overlap of substantive policies. Simply false. I dealt with the issues at length early on in this discussion thread. There are points of overlap above and beyond opposition to the Amarrian regime and points of difference. I am not, however, going over this ground yet again when I have addressed it in detail already. I do not intend to comment any further. This thread has degenerated into undignified prattle. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal

Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.25 10:02:00 - [201] Whilst I agree with The Cosmopolite regarding the degeneration of this thread, I do not agree with his analysis of the overlap between the policies of the SF and their allies. As I have already pointed out, it may well be the case that SF and U'K approve of the concept of personal responsibility for example, but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who will publicly disapprove of such a thing. As such, such an overlap is meaningless because it's an overlap not only between SF and their allies but also with 99% of the rest of humanity including their enemies in the Empire. The other supposed areas of overlap also fall into this category. When it comes to the fundamental causes that the different anti-Amarrian groups support, however, there are substantive differences between them. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Davlos Caldari Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.29 09:15:00 - [202] Originally by: Khavi Vetali I would think that you would know better. If you are implying that that is our singular purpose perhaps you should open your eyes and try setting your perceptions "free." If that is not your implication...carry on. What you say is what has been repeated and paraphrased by your superiors countless of times with the pretense of 'opening your eyes' and 'freedom'. But that cannot be faulted with you, Vetali. You now belong to an organization that uses most of its members as cogs in the machine for the boosting of the egos of your leader(s) and directors. By proclaiming yourself free in perceptions by joining such an organization and adopting its meme, you have, yourself, trapped yourself in your own enclosure. An organization that fails to respect its enemies is one unworthy of respect. An organization that commits mistakes, fails to admit them and fails to apologize for them fails in integrity. An organization that announces itself the liberator of memes and spreads its own meme about its members that have little or no understanding of the intellectual fad behind it is hollow and has carried on through its strength in ISK. With little understanding of how its previous opposition could be defeated, it clocked up a better kill/loss ratio and spun a victory for itself, left the vicinity and let the opposition reoccupy the area. That's no victory. Your time is better served elsewhere. ---------------
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:33:00 - [203] So Electus Matari is the latest home for the seething remnants of the Kimotoro Directive now is it? Nice to know that your quest for a sympathetic ear takes you to very strange places - once a tool of State nationalist militia propped up by Amarrian fleet intervention and now an enlightened anti slavery campaigner - quite the ideological turnaround you have yourself there. Quote: You now belong to an organization that uses most of its members as cogs in the machine for the boosting of the egos of your leader(s) and directors. And you a former self-declared state auxillary "policeman" dare lecture a free captain about being a "cog in the machine" - you have never understood the least part of fraction ideology davlos and that you consider yourself capable of holding forth on the subject impresses not in the slightest. Quote: By proclaiming yourself free in perceptions by joining such an organization and adopting its meme, you have, yourself, trapped yourself in your own enclosure. By proclaiming such nonsense you have wrapped yourself in the same cloak of mediocrity you've been clinging too as a security blanket since Mito. You seem to believe that the fraction considers all memes are regressive and we can exist beyond the concept of shared ideas. Next I imagine you'll parrot the Amarrian saw that since we're anarcho capitialists we shouldn't have gang leaders or unified target calling and we're hypocrits because we cooperate. Really this is tired old rhetoric that we've doused from your lips a dozen times before. Must you insist on dragging Electus Matari into your feud now? Quote: An organization that fails to respect its enemies is one unworthy of respect. This is because we didn't respect you? You who crouched in the mito docks while other braver men fought and battled for the loyalist cause? We respected some opponents Davlos - we respected some very much actually and considered them capable and dangerous. But you are right - we never did respect you in the slightest - I imagine that must still sting. But there is a more profound point here beyond your personal experience. You say that an organisation must respect its foes? Why? Simply because they are "foes?" You basically want respect handed out like welfare bonds to the needy whereas I believe respect must be earned. All our enemies who have earned respect are respected. Those who have earned nothing but our derision are derided. Do you honestly think your mewling complaints are going to earn you respect at this point? If you hate us come and fight us Davlos - teach us to respect you. But I assure you continuing your galnet-only feud from behind the doors of yet another 3rd party organisation is going to do nothing to make us think of you in kinder terms. Quote: An organization that announces itself the liberator of memes and spreads its own meme about its members that have little or no understanding of the intellectual fad behind it is hollow and has carried on through its strength in ISK. You really are bitter about this aren't you? The Meme's we fight are regressive ones - like the nationalist basis of the Kimotoro Directive alliance we destroyed as you hunkered down in the ruins Davlos. Are you believing that Electus Matari with you inside would fare any better now? Is this your pitch for round two and a chance to erase your past failure? Quote: With little understanding of how its previous opposition could be defeated, it clocked up a better kill/loss ratio and spun a victory for itself, left the vicinity and let the opposition reoccupy the area. Yet somehow the ideal of nationalist invulnerability doesn't look quite as shiney as it did a year ago does it Davlos. I see a lot of fear on the faces of state loyalist organisations. A lot of nervous shuffling about .. Quote: Your time is better served elsewhere. Whereas I confess you are in the perfect place for a man of your limited talents. Star Fraction is recruiting
Davlos Caldari Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.29 11:42:00 - [204] You will find, Constantine, that for my departure from the nullsec arena, we may actually agree on something - I've seen the sights of any capsuleer would've dreamt of gazing upon: Fleet engagements, titans, doomsday weapon activations, capitals bashing against each other, and have tired of them. I took leave of my Family on positive terms and found a home in Electus Matari. But for what reasons, I'm afraid they shall remain personal. However, despite the many months, Constantine, you still seem capable of clinging on to the past and never seeming to let them go, still adept at sidestepping the main points at hand and erecting fresh legions of strawmen. For that, you certainly deserve a medal for Predictability of Apparent Debate. I bid you good fortune in your neverending search for relevance. ---------------
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:28:00 - [205] It is not a common experience that I find myself in agreement (more or less) with a pilot of the Electus Matari. It is so rare in fact, that I will have to comment on it. Originally by: Davlos An organization that fails to respect its enemies is one unworthy of respect. I used to have exactly the opinion you're voicing in the above statement. The PIE/SF debacle a few months ago (when I was still PIE) has taught me that this is not the "entire" truth. In Star Fraction there are many pilots whose behavior both in space and "out of it" is honorable and thus worthy of respect. In my own expereince names such as Cosmopolite the Orator, Upstanding Sable Schroedinger (I keep spelling the name wrong) and Razor Jaxx the Fighter springs to mind. I'm sure there are several others. Then of course you have people such as Little Jasmine Constantine. I think I'll leave it up to you to form your own opinion. Originally by: Davlos An organization that announces itself the liberator of memes I must admit that this is somewhat confusing to me. A few posts up in this thread I enquired as to how Star Fraction could maintain friendships with both U'K and Revans Sani Sabik imitation having one referring to the other as "monkeys". The reply was the the "interaction between third parties" was none of Star Fractions business. Yet Star Fraction seem content to fight the Amarr loyalists on the ground that we force our ideals on others - but wouldn't this constitute "interaction between third parties"? Mr Cosmopolite (when he answered) stated that he had no further interest in this discussion and out of respect for him I refrained from pushing the subject. Seing that several other SF pilots has shown more interest than he, perhaps some of those would feel more inclined to answer? Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:46:00 - [206] Originally by: Davlos You will find, Constantine, that for my departure from the nullsec arena, we may actually agree on something - I've seen the sights of any capsuleer would've dreamt of gazing upon: Fleet engagements, titans, doomsday weapon activations, capitals bashing against each other, and have tired of them. I don't think we will agree since I always considered your move to nullsec to be another way for you to hide from your enemies. Delve and fountain are very safe places for those on good terms with band of brothers. I wonder if you are tired of the tedium if anything. Quote: I took leave of my Family on positive terms and found a home in Electus Matari. But for what reasons, I'm afraid they shall remain personal. I don't really care what your reasons are Davlos but I encourage you to continue verbally "attacking" Star Fraction from within the ranks of Electus Matari. Just as you did from within the ranks of Kimotoro Directive last summer it will be interesting to see what the ultimate consquences are. Quote: However, despite the many months, Constantine, you still seem capable of clinging on to the past and never seeming to let them go, still adept at sidestepping the main points at hand and erecting fresh legions of strawmen. For that, you certainly deserve a medal for Predictability of Apparent Debate. Boldly spoken for a man who has never gotten past Mito Davlos. Star Fraction is recruiting
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:47:00 - [207] You must have a lot of "stamina" for keep trying your way with this thread after several months. As you insist on bringing the Sani Sabik into discussions without having the slightest idea of our ideology and neither the mind to comprehend our books, I find it very unlikely that any words spoken will help to illuminate your sub-developed mind. But consider that I'm in a good mood and will indulge you some play. To start discussing contrasts of ideologies between Sani Sabik and SF you need to understand clearly the concepts of Genetics and Memes. Oh, hurting your cells already... my apologies as I know that you are unable to proceed right here but I'll go on in hope that some other intelligent being will be able to produce an interesting counter rhetoric to amuse me. To your question: The relationship between genetic and memetic codes is what brings our alliances to a solid relationship. One can construct rather detailed model for cognitive consciousness in terms of the memetic code. Memes and genes correspond to two levels in the hierarchy of conscious intelligence and genetic programs could be perhaps seen as subprograms called by the higher level memetic programs. One could even see higher level life as symbiosis of memes and genes. Now, if this isn't clear considering that Sani Sabik endorses and has one of the main tenets related to Eugenic programs, I believe your only alternative is to go back to low level rhetoric. Or to keep believing that the "hate" for "Amarr Empire" is what drives us... I pitty your self delusion. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 13:06:00 - [208] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus It is not a common experience that I find myself in agreement (more or less) with a pilot of the Electus Matari. It is so rare in fact, that I will have to comment on it. Whereas ironically I have found that PIE and Electus Matari have an awful lot in common from my observations over the past months. You are both nationalists devoted to maintaining the status quo, you both respect each other as foes and enjoy polite chit chat in local. Both sides enjoy polite little jousts you publicise as wars and both are quick to support each other publicly when threatened by anarchists and nere-do-wells beyond your reenactment society cliques. You are united of course by your hatred for Star Fraction expressed in channels local and private and we track the corrospondence between your leaders with interest. But really, this serves only to prove the point the Fraction makes at the core of its ideology - nationalism is a trap and even the faux wars between nationalist entities serve only as a safety valve for capsuleers desiring to "play at war" go make believe they are actually fighting. PIE and Electus Matari are two sides of a coin - you are almost completely alike and this is why a person like davlos can so easily switch from "oppressive would be state tyrant" to "starry-eyed freedom fighter" lauding the respect and honour of his slaver foes. I know you don't like to hear this but from a Fraction perspective the Amarrian and Republican loyalists are virtually inseparable. The matari will never be free while they ah led by a collaborator like Midular and bowed to submission to nationalist hierarchy and the ancient memetics of imperialism. You are playmates caught in codependence and mutual need - PIE need to "play" at being slavers and march around making believe they expand the empire. EM need to "play" at opposing this evil and staging mock duels at gates between agreed holidays and mutual backslapping. Its a hard truth I grant you. But it is a truth. And though you will howl and deny the words I speak here (for to do otherwise would admit terrible failings in your ambition and imagination) you know in your hearts my words cut deep and I genuinely pity you that. Be easy though nationalists (amarrian and republican alike) maybe the Star Fraction is simply a children's tale told by stern planetbound patriarchs to keep you tucked up in bed at night. If you close your eyes really tight it may be possible to imagine we don't exist and will never come for you. Go ahead and give it a try. It really is all you've got. Star Fraction is recruiting
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 19:52:00 - [209] Edited by: Ituralde on 29/07/2007 19:52:27 Are you really trying to get us to declare war on Electus Matari, Davlos? Remember, anything you say against us does reflect on the organization you represent. A lot of us have rather mixed feelings about a semi-nationalist organization who - while fighting Amarrians, still prop up another nationalist entity and additionally essentially disappeared from the scene as soon as we began our own attack against their enemies. A lot of us would rather never see that war come to pass. Myself included. Please, don't try to tip the scales. You know how Star Fraction has historically responded to Galnet side-sniping. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.29 20:39:00 - [210] Quote: Please, don't try to tip the scales. You know how Star Fraction has historically responded to Galnet side-sniping. I'd have thought the freedom of speech exercised by a capsuleer pilot such as Davlos would be something the Star Fraction would embrace given their quest for "free capsuleer identity" and "evolution". To support the freedom of the mind the Star Fraction extols yet deny those that exercise same freedom the right to do so without threat and attempted intimidation appears quite hypocritical. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP'S BLOG

Azure Skyclad Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 20:56:00 - [211] Edited by: Azure Skyclad on 29/07/2007 20:57:17 Davlos wasn't prevented from saying anything Archie. Having said that, a soiled gusset of an individual like yourself never did really understand the whole freedom shebang did you? Davlos exercised his freedom alright. Much akin to the freedom an idiot demonstrates when kicking a hornet's nest. The nub of the issue here is Davlos is kicking a hornet's nest he has kicked before and he came of rather badly the last time. In this light, your asinine statement about freedom of speech just smells like the crap you wallow in. I would sincerely suggest member corps of Electus Matari takes a long overdue review of it's recruitment procedures. Especially with regard to new applicants with baggage. All too easy for a twerp with an axe to grind to start name calling from behind a screen of unwitting new allies. http://ultravixen.co.uk/
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 21:03:00 - [212] Originally by: Archbishop Quote: Please, don't try to tip the scales. You know how Star Fraction has historically responded to Galnet side-sniping. I'd have thought the freedom of speech exercised by a capsuleer pilot such as Davlos would be something the Star Fraction would embrace given their quest for "free capsuleer identity" and "evolution". To support the freedom of the mind the Star Fraction extols yet deny those that exercise same freedom the right to do so without threat and attempted intimidation appears quite hypocritical. Archbishop We deny no rights, worm. It's perfectly legitimate for Davlos to say what he does. It doesn't go against any of his rights. However, that doesn't mean that his words won't cause trouble. All actions have consequences. Just as Davlos has the right to insult us from the sidelines, we have every right to declare war on Electus Matari because of it. Ultimately, however, that is going to be a decision first on the side of Electus Matari and Davlos whether or not to anger us, and then on our side at what point will we no longer take annoying blathering about us and declare war. Interestingly enough, none of that involves a brown-robed worm attempting to cause further trouble. Perhaps to incite this war? Dear me, how insidious. Would PIE really seek to attempt to use Star Fraction to do it's dirty work because it is too impotent of an organization to defeat Electus Matari on it's own? No, 'Archbishop', if we do decide to take action, it won't be because you attempted to inject your venom into an issue that doesn't concern you. Back on topic. Davlos, first and foremost it will be on you whether or not to cause trouble. You don't have to like us, we don't expect you to. However, the moment you take that dislike and make a public attack on us, you invite retribution. Let me give the warning that - given your existing history with us - many would rather not waste time bandying words with you, but instead seek to destroy you in space. I don't think I would be the only one who would regret this. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.29 21:26:00 - [213] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 29/07/2007 21:28:07 Originally by: Archbishop I'd have thought the freedom of speech exercised by a capsuleer pilot such as Davlos would be something the Star Fraction would embrace given their quest for "free capsuleer identity" and "evolution". It makes perfect sense to me that a station-locked nithling like yourself would indeed laud the concept that an IGS blowhard could snipe without consequence on the summit. Unfortunately for you, Davlos, and possibly the Electus Matari organisation itself - the universe doesn't work like that and while everyone is free to say whatever they like whenever they choose the audience is also free to respond however they choose whenever they like in counterpoint. Quote: To support the freedom of the mind the Star Fraction extols yet deny those that exercise same freedom the right to do so without threat and attempted intimidation appears quite hypocritical. We have never supported the right of cowards to make public attacks without consequence. Star Fraction is recruiting
Mori Felding Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.07.29 23:08:00 - [214] Lets take another turn in the roundabout shall we... ___ Memento Mori
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.07.30 04:52:00 - [215] does anyone remember what the topic was? U'K recruit! . ..i come for our people..
Kovid Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.30 05:20:00 - [216] I believe Rodj was transcribing a dream he had or transcribing a session with his therapist. Bloodviel, Star Fraction and Ushra'Kahn are evil boogie men & women. ---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ \| ----------------------------------


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