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Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:44:00 - [151] Edited by: Revan Neferis on 21/07/2007 21:44:23 Originally by: Garreck Clever deflection, but let's remember: Providence is a measurable success of loyalists. A success beyond which Bloodveil has experienced on any level: military, economic, or idealogically. To the contrary. Providence is the reflex of your failure. Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. So far, you have proven nothing other then hanging around one of porest 0.0 regions of deep space. Bloodveil has no interest on territorial conquests, therefore your assumption is also out of any reason. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:51:00 - [152] Originally by: Revan Neferis To the contrary. Providence is the reflex of your failure. Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. So far, you have proven nothing other then hanging around one of porest 0.0 regions of deep space. Bloodveil has no interest on territorial conquests, therefore your assumption is also out of any reason. Another deflection. You spoke of failures and loyalists. I give you Providence. Explain, in measurable terms, how Providence is a failure of any kind. I'll even do you a favor and leave comparisons with Bloodveil efforts out of the picture.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:13:00 - [153] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis To the contrary. Providence is the reflex of your failure. Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. So far, you have proven nothing other then hanging around one of porest 0.0 regions of deep space. Bloodveil has no interest on territorial conquests, therefore your assumption is also out of any reason. Another deflection. You spoke of failures and loyalists. I give you Providence. Explain, in measurable terms, how Providence is a failure of any kind. I'll even do you a favor and leave comparisons with Bloodveil efforts out of the picture. Originally by: Revan Neferis Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:23:00 - [154] Originally by: Revan Neferis Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. You're slow today. I never mentioned reclaiming. I said success, and I said Loyalists, and I said Providence. You've done nothing to disassociate the three.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:15:00 - [155] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis Talk about reclaiming when I see Amarr Sovereignity at Providence. You're slow today. I never mentioned reclaiming. I said success, and I said Loyalists, and I said Providence. You've done nothing to disassociate the three. None of the three represents anything to the discussion. You have no sucess, you are not loyalists, otherwise Providence would be at Amarr Sovereignity already, and your dealings in Providence interests me as little as any other 0.0 lost small alliance with low profitability. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:22:00 - [156] Edited by: Garreck on 21/07/2007 23:22:49 Originally by: Revan Neferis None of the three represents anything to the discussion. You made them so when you said that Loyalists were synonimous with failure. Originally by: Revan Neferis You have no sucess, you are not loyalists, otherwise Providence would be at Amarr Sovereignity already, and your dealings in Providence interests me as little as any other 0.0 lost small alliance with low profitability. Our success is to provide a haven for all loyalists as well as merchants in lawless space. Our success is to have pushed out a hated enemy of the empire and all who do not embrace the policy of "not red, don't shoot." Our success is to bring several alliances and small organizations together who buy into the policy of "not red, don't shoot" and who cooperate together for mutual defense and profit. Our success is to turn a low profitability area into a high profitability area (come check out the ever expanding market some time.) If the Empire deigns to take Providence off of our hands, the success will be completed...but we have been successful to a great degree in all tangible, measurable areas. If this were not so, you would not be recycling an argument that has no bearing on our current success what-so-ever.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:47:00 - [157] Originally by: Garreck Edited by: Garreck on 21/07/2007 23:22:49 Originally by: Revan Neferis None of the three represents anything to the discussion. You made them so when you said that Loyalists were synonimous with failure. Originally by: Revan Neferis You have no sucess, you are not loyalists, otherwise Providence would be at Amarr Sovereignity already, and your dealings in Providence interests me as little as any other 0.0 lost small alliance with low profitability. Our success is to provide a haven for all loyalists as well as merchants in lawless space. Our success is to have pushed out a hated enemy of the empire and all who do not embrace the policy of "not red, don't shoot." Our success is to bring several alliances and small organizations together who buy into the policy of "not red, don't shoot" and who cooperate together for mutual defense and profit. Our success is to turn a low profitability area into a high profitability area (come check out the ever expanding market some time.) If the Empire deigns to take Providence off of our hands, the success will be completed...but we have been successful to a great degree in all tangible, measurable areas. If this were not so, you would not be recycling an argument that has no bearing on our current success what-so-ever. You did nothing other then chase an inferior race of monkeys. No service for the Empire, no expansion for its boarders. And I already said I don't consider your kind as loyalist. You are loyal to your own cause. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:51:00 - [158] Originally by: Revan Neferis And I already said I don't consider your kind as loyalist. You are loyal to your own cause. Fair enough. Welcome to the ranks of those ignorant enough to consider your organization to be "Blood Raiders."
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:55:00 - [159] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis And I already said I don't consider your kind as loyalist. You are loyal to your own cause. Fair enough. Welcome to the ranks of those ignorant enough to consider your organization to be "Blood Raiders." No, I'm not welcome at CVA ranks. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:59:00 - [160] Originally by: Revan Neferis No, I'm not welcome at CVA ranks. Zing! The point stands. Failure to consider CVA loyalists is as ignorant from our perspective as comparisons between Bloodveil and Blood Raiders is to yours. And that ignorance a) is not my problem and b) not at all related to the success of loyalists in Providence. It is appropriate that the only response you have to the CVA's efforts in Providence is to discount the CVA as loyalists altogether...

Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 00:01:00 - [161] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis No, I'm not welcome at CVA ranks. Zing! The point stands. Failure to consider CVA loyalists is as ignorant from our perspective as comparisons between Bloodveil and Blood Raiders is to yours. And that ignorance a) is not my problem and b) not at all related to the success of loyalists in Providence. It is appropriate that the only response you have to the CVA's efforts in Providence is to discount the CVA as loyalists altogether... Ask me again when you give Providence to Amarr Empire. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 02:51:00 - [162] Originally by: Garreck Our success is to provide a haven for all loyalists as well as merchants in lawless space. Our success is to have pushed out a hated enemy of the empire and all who do not embrace the policy of "not red, don't shoot." Our success is to bring several alliances and small organizations together who buy into the policy of "not red, don't shoot" and who cooperate together for mutual defense and profit. Our success is to turn a low profitability area into a high profitability area (come check out the ever expanding market some time.) If the Empire deigns to take Providence off of our hands, the success will be completed...but we have been successful to a great degree in all tangible, measurable areas. If this were not so, you would not be recycling an argument that has no bearing on our current success what-so-ever. So again explain how Providence is apart of the Amarr Empire? Can you tell which agency of the Empire will gladly relinquish to? All I see is a glorified spin story about aggression against innocents behind the banner of a non-existent Emperor. Those that you did chase away, you failed to eliminate completely. They will be back and in greater numbers, such is the way of the Minmatar. I would suggest that now there is nothing to do in Providence you do everything you can to shore up that pretty little alliance of yours. With no prey to feed from, the true predators will turn on the others consuming them in the feast of cannibalism. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 03:02:00 - [163] Edited by: Garreck on 22/07/2007 03:07:42 Originally by: Casserina Leshrac So again explain how Providence is apart of the Amarr Empire? Can you tell which agency of the Empire will gladly relinquish to? I see cognitive dissonance is an organizational trait. The quote at hand is "Loyalist and failure are synonyms." The truth at hand is that the CVA, a loyalist organization, is quite plainly a success, not a failure. And our success is found at the hand of brother loyalist organizations. Originally by: Casserina Leshrac All I see is a glorified spin story about aggression against innocents behind the banner of a non-existent Emperor. Point out the flaws in my factual statements, then. Better yet, prove me wrong in space. Originally by: Casserina Leshrac Those that you did chase away, you failed to eliminate completely. They will be back and in greater numbers, such is the way of the Minmatar. We'll see. The tenacity of Ushra'Khan has never been in doubt. Originally by: Casserina Leshrac I would suggest that now there is nothing to do in Providence you do everything you can to shore up that pretty little alliance of yours. With no prey to feed from, the true predators will turn on the others consuming them in the feast of cannibalism. Pretty fluff, Bloodveil style, but I can assure you the break in action is being taken full advantage of. I'm eager to see who's next in line to step beyond the safety of the Intergallactic Summit and really show CVA how worthless we are.
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 05:24:00 - [164] I think you are confusing worth with relevance. Perhaps if you spent the time attempting to preserve the Empire instead striking out on your own into Providence you might actually be relevant. Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 06:00:00 - [165] Originally by: Casserina Leshrac I think you are confusing worth with relevance. Progress! If Ms Neferis had referred to the loyalists as "irrelevant," I would have kept my peace...soldiers have little relevance to social climbers and visa-versa. The last time Ms Neferis was "relevant" to the CVA or the CVA to her, I collected two of her corpses as well as many of her fellow socialites and band of mercs. I'm sure Bloodveil are quite content for the CVA to remain irrelevant...and that deterence is just one contribution of the CVA to the preservation of the Empire. You cannot simply "talk" the CVA out of its effectiveness. To say that stablizing lawless borders of Empire space is not a service to the Empire is ignorance. To say that providing a guiding hand to developing organizations in the name of that Empire is not service is ignorance. And yet, that's all Bloodveil is left with...because for all the talk, Bloodveil finds themselves on the outside of tangible success and looking in. At the irrelevant CVA.
Casserina Leshrac Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 07:34:00 - [166] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Casserina Leshrac I think you are confusing worth with relevance. Progress! If Ms Neferis had referred to the loyalists as "irrelevant," I would have kept my peace...soldiers have little relevance to social climbers and visa-versa. The last time Ms Neferis was "relevant" to the CVA or the CVA to her, I collected two of her corpses as well as many of her fellow socialites and band of mercs. I'm sure Bloodveil are quite content for the CVA to remain irrelevant...and that deterence is just one contribution of the CVA to the preservation of the Empire. You cannot simply "talk" the CVA out of its effectiveness. To say that stablizing lawless borders of Empire space is not a service to the Empire is ignorance. To say that providing a guiding hand to developing organizations in the name of that Empire is not service is ignorance. And yet, that's all Bloodveil is left with...because for all the talk, Bloodveil finds themselves on the outside of tangible success and looking in. At the irrelevant CVA. If you are outside the Empire like you are in Providence then you are not doing the work of the Empire. Rather, its greed and power-mongering. Pure and simple. Never send a Gallente to do the work for an Amarr Casserina Sani Sabik Illuminatus From the Darkness I sow the seeds of Chaos.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 08:52:00 - [167] Last time I glanced my eyes upon CVA, over 20 billion in damage was done, 2 alliances broken ( CVA Allied)and I left with a 7 Billion profit to Verisum and all Coalition. The only reason why I retreated the wars was the betrayal of Grand Master Horm who implored me to stop the wars for the sake of saving Amarr loyalists of a shameful defeat. To finish this discussion, once for all let me say that the wars against CVA ARE PAST. This because I lost all respect for their pilots. They have no cause, no heart and fighting them is no different then fight any other 0.0 alliance with all insults and smack of commoners. Once for all, I have no interest on investing at Providence with its gruesome pilots and poor economical flux. Cry as much as you want Garreck. You are alone, isolated with your greed and boredom, defending a region that contains monkeys and the poorest ores and economical business in all of eve and beating your chest about it. Amarr Empire doesn't even ackowledge your existance. Providence IS a hot potato you have to hold it now and see it burning in your hands because no one gives a damn about it. Or come here and scream to the monkeys, they are more willing to play your kind. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:17:00 - [168] Originally by: Revan Neferis Or come here and scream to the monkeys, they are more willing to play your kind. A couple of monkeys have deigned to scream back...did I push a button, Revan? You write us off because for all the damage you feel you did and for all the inflated statistics, it was your alliance that was broken while we came through your war stronger than when it started, and are of course stronger now than then. Measurably so. That bothers you. So you downplay the importance and the success of those who defy your self-inflated immage of invincibility. It's a common approach to defeat in this Summit. CVA are a constant reminder that you cannot have your way with the paramilitaries. We are "past" because you failed entirely against us. Now you are reduced to boasting of power you do not have, and you get offended when those with power remind you that you have none. Compare us to "just any other 0.0 alliance" all you choose, it doesn't take away from our success...and it does not conceal your failure.
Keerie Jeanmot Gallente Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:26:00 - [169] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis Or come here and scream to the monkeys, they are more willing to play your kind. A couple of monkeys have deigned to scream back...did I push a button, Revan? You write us off because for all the damage you feel you did and for all the inflated statistics, it was your alliance that was broken while we came through your war stronger than when it started, and are of course stronger now than then. Measurably so. That bothers you. So you downplay the importance and the success of those who defy your self-inflated immage of invincibility. It's a common approach to defeat in this Summit. CVA are a constant reminder that you cannot have your way with the paramilitaries. We are "past" because you failed entirely against us. Now you are reduced to boasting of power you do not have, and you get offended when those with power remind you that you have none. Compare us to "just any other 0.0 alliance" all you choose, it doesn't take away from our success...and it does not conceal your failure. I pitty you.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:30:00 - [170] We heard it all before, even at the wars against Star Fraction.... Rush Garreck, there is a UK monkey eating bananas at one of your asteroid belts! "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"

Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:33:00 - [171] Originally by: Keerie Jeanmot I pitty you. Hey, maybe I can pity you too. And then we can have a nice circle-jerk of condescension and see who can out-condescend the other. Or maybe we can leave the discussion where it is: with Revan writing off CVA as loyalists and therefore irrelevant in their success. I'm content with that. Just figured I'd dig a little and find where this whole "loyalists are failures" theorem was rooted. Now I understand.
Keerie Jeanmot Gallente Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:36:00 - [172] Originally by: Revan Neferis We heard it all before, even at the wars against Star Fraction.... Rush Garreck, there is a UK monkey eating bananas at one of your asteroid belts!
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:55:00 - [173] Garreck, you can't reason with these people - trust me, I've tried and failed continously. They believe that taking 4 weeks to organize an expedition to an empty system outshines "building" and controlling a region with 4 stations and a well developed infrastructure. They believe that opening a vast region of space to commerce and trade by civilians counts for less than ganking a few haulers on autopilot. They believe that they are the members of a religious organisation not believeing in GOD. Obviously they never even bothered looking at the teachings of the Sani Sabik cults before stealing their name in order to have some of the "fame" rub on on their own petty band of misfits. They believe that slavery should be outlawed - no wait, that was last month. They believe any slave has a right to rebel against their owners - no wait, that was last week. They believe that the Minmatar are "monkeys" - no wait, that belief will change tomorrow. Their beliefs are "flavor of the day". Garreck, why do you bother? The only question I personally would like to see an answer ot is this: How can Star Fraction claim friendship with an organisation that claims another of their friends are monkeys? Does their "fractional" beliefs allow such disdain for their U'K allies or will one of their friendships turn sour? I know Star Fraction houses many honorable pilots (and a few less so). It surprise me that they can quietly accept such treatment of their friends and allies. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 16:17:00 - [174] Originally by: Octavinus Augustus rabble rabble Try again. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:52:00 - [175] Originally by: Revan Neferis Try again. Is he wrong? If so, how? Can you address his points, or is the standard sub-standard "brush-off" all you are left with?
Revan Neferis Amarr Bloodveil The Sani Sabik	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:58:00 - [176] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Revan Neferis Try again. Is he wrong? If so, how? Can you address his points, or is the standard sub-standard "brush-off" all you are left with? Because he is wrong and at the moment I have 52 guests at my party to take care of. If you want to address the same subject over and over again under your twisted views, I recommend you to simply make a search of last 1 year posts and spend 3 hours reading it. It'll spare us time and save the readers of repetitive rethorics from both sides. "One must still have chaos in oneself to give birth to a dancing Star"
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 18:07:00 - [177] Originally by: Revan Neferis If you want to address the same subject over and over again under your twisted views, I recommend you to simply make a search of last 1 year posts and spend 3 hours reading it. It'll spare us time and save the readers of repetitive rethorics from both sides. So that's "yes," then. I've little interest in 3 hours' worth of brush-offs that I was fully party to over the past year anyway. Enjoy the party, Revan. It was not my intention to rudely interupt. Do give my regards to Mr. Cosmopolite if he's present...he's another ideological foe who provides appreciated discussion, if never any real resolution.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:30:00 - [178] I have said all that I need to say on the topic of this thread and as to the rather foolish attempts to draw us into the current argument, I only say that we are not the keepers of the Sani Sabik or the Ushra'Khan and that which is between them is none of our business. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Luna Rossa Corporation SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:09:00 - [179] In response to this entire thread, I'd just like to say - As long as Loyalist Amarrians are still dying, I wouldn't care if it was being done by an alliance of child molesters and drug dealers. ----- I think it's little enough to ask that every Amarrian roll over and die so I can live in my vision of a perfect world.
Octavinus Augustus Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:49:00 - [180] Originally by: The Cosmopolite I have said all that I need to say on the topic of this thread and as to the rather foolish attempts to draw us into the current argument, I only say that we are not the keepers of the Sani Sabik or the Ushra'Khan and that which is between them is none of our business. The Cosmopolite I think I must have caught you in a bad moment, Mr Cosmopolite. I posted a question regarding your understanding of the concept of friendship. This was done due to an honest interest in understanding how your outlook differ from mine, which it obviously does. You have answered my question for which I am grateful. If a friend of mine stand falsely accused I will stand by him in support. I will even defend an enemy being falsely accused - my sense of honor sees to that. And calling our U'K enemies monkies is certainly something they do not deserve. I believe most Amarr Loyalists would testify that the U'K has been skilled and worthy opponents. Also, I know of few monkies armed with Tech II autocannon - although some entertaining images does spring to mind. As for the "foolish attempts to draw us into the current argument" let's just leave it at that - it was never my intention. Motto: Vae Victis - Woe to the vanquished.



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