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The Major
Caldari
StateCorp
The State
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Posted - 2007.04.16 01:09:00 -
[1]
Shortcut keys are a massive improvement to productivity. This is one of those facts that people designing accounting software will tell you.
Well for 4(ish) years now Eve has been gimped in this respect by a single design descision.
Anytime you press an alphanumeric key it will always go into the active chat channel.
This one fact means all shortcut keys have to be either function keys (F1-f12) or require cumbersome combinations of chord keys (ctrl, alt and shift). This has lead to the mouse heavy interface we all use today.
How many of us want to be able to press "T" and we select the next hostile ship in our overview? How many of us would like to be able to press "Space" to lock and unlock targets?
I'm betting quite a few of us. Afterall the overview allows for some fairly good filtering of targets but clicking on the right target and then clicking the lock icon can actually prove quite difficult at low framerates.
T, space, F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, F7, F8 is far far preferable.
However here we have a problem. By giving us keyboard shortcuts we are opened upto macros! Ohnoez!
Except macros are already here. Anybody with a G15 keyboard has F1-F8 bound to a key already. Mouse macros exist but are harder to achieve (and less reliable).
However Macros haven't actually hurt other games. Games like City of Heroes embrace macros and keybinds. The biggest fear we have in Eve is that mining and ratting will become easier to macro.
Well the fact is that going through the motions of selecting a target, locking it and then firing doesn't involve any skill. The skill lies in choosing the target in the first place and actually playing the game. More keypresses and more mouse clicks does not make a game more difficult of challenging. It just makes it more frustrating and gets in the way of what really makes up the game.
So then. Shortcut keys are good. But we're still stuck with the "Straight to chat" problem. Solution? An option to switch between two modes: "Straight to Chat" and "Enter to Chat". Straight to Chat is how things are now while Enter To Chat requires you to press Enter or Return before you can start talking.
On to problem number two!
I know nobody wants Eve to turn into a game where numbers float up out of your ship as you take damage. Besides in a fleet fight those numbers will move so fast they're pretty meaningless anyway.
This doesn't hide the fact that the current amount of feedback players get on the status of their own ship is fairly poor. Am I warp scrambled? I have no idea until I try to warp out. Jammed? Won't know till I try to lock somebody.
Now I fully expect lots of people to claim that these things are good and seperate the good players from the bad. That gets said about anything which will make an MMO easier to play and understand. It's just the old school (check my birthdate, I'm as old school as they come) largely being jealous of the fact that new players won't have to put up with a bad interface like they did.
Something needs to be done. If only to allow the player know what is happening to their ship. They don't have to know the source of those things (although that would be nice) but just what exactly is going on with the ship their pod is in.
My suggestion is basically ripped out of guildwars. A status bar that will show what effects are currently on your ship. This might be located in the top-middle of the screen. There aren't many different effects that can happen to your ship and the most common two are being warp scrambled or webbed.
If I get time later I'll mock-up some screenshots of how this might work. But for know /sign if you feel this kind of change is needed. Feel free to flame away that it would remove all "Skill" from the game. As far as I'm concerned being able to navigate a bad interface and second-guess what your ship is doing are not skills that should matter when it comes to PvP in Eve. Just things that get in the way of piloting your ship in a tactical manner.
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Miranda Finn
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Posted - 2007.04.16 04:17:00 -
[2]
I agree 100% with all of your suggestions. I've only been playing eve a few weeks but the lack of common UI elements and conventions have me hovering over the cancel subscription button. I find it odd that basic HCI practices have been grossly ignored so here's some default key mappings I'd like to see (that can be re-bound of course). Most of these are for the context sensitive actions that can be performed on selected targets in space:
A - Approach selected target.
ALT + A - Autopilot.
I - Open Information for selected target.
O - Orbit (default distance) selected Target (if applicable).
W - Warp to (default distance) of selected target (if applicable).
L - Lock/Unlock selected target (if applicable).
ENTER or Space - Activate/Jump/Dock/Loot using selected target (if applicable).
K - Keep selected target at (default) distance.
M - Toggle Map.
V - (View) Look at selected target.
S - Stop Ship.
Selection Management:
T - Select next Target.
SHIFT + T - Select Previous Target.
R - Select Closest Hostile Target.
SHIFT + R - Select Furthest Hostile Target.
E - Select Next Hostile Target
SHIFT + E - Select Previous Hostile Target.
The ability to make any key (with or without modifier keys) map to any ship related task with smart defaults. However, with MMOs it's probably a good idea to have NO DEFAULT KEY MAPS FOR THINGS LIKE EJECT, SELF DESTRUCT ect or you'll get people telling newibes to press CTRL + ALT + E for (insert dupe offer here) which ejects them from their ship for exmaple, but allow advanced players to map those function if they so choose.
Furthermore, create a default double-click action for everything. The UI seems to follow no standard in this regard. If I right click an item I should be presented with a context menu with a highlights a default action what would be performed if I was to double-click it. This goes for items in lists, icons, targets selected in space the overview, the universe, everything. The default should be a safe action such as displaying info, but the default actions should always be listed and highlighted in the context menu so users know what will happen if they do double-click it.
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Rook Falcon
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Posted - 2007.04.16 05:27:00 -
[3]
/signed
Fear of "macros" has made eve community and devs into mush that is beyond silly and is hurting the game and community radher than helping to do anithing constructive.
The cold fact is; there will be always players who abuse, no matter how good is the game or how good is the protection, there will be ALWAYS a way to exploit, using this as an excuse only hurts general gamers not those few talented who can think out of the box.
And before someone screams at me; do i abuse eve? No- im too lazy to do that.
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Artu Stargazer
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Posted - 2007.04.17 01:18:00 -
[4]
/signed
Example, I played kotor almost entirely mouseless except for selecting items. Hotkeys would definitely add to the speed of the game and the tactical elements of PvP.
While we're at it, multithreaded client with UI and engine running separately so info requests don't bugger us if done at the wrong time. I know a guy who almost lost a ship when he tried opening his block list in P&P, simply because it locked the client for so long.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.17 02:28:00 -
[5]
/not signed
And why ...
I have played games where they have all these key strokes and it is a pain in the backside to constantly have to change focus to the chat window. Of all the things most players do, on a consistent basis, is chat with other players.
Maybe a comprimise is a key stroke that toggles the keyboard between a "chat mode" and a "command mode" with a nice little visual icon on the screen somplace.
-AS |
Ovno ConSyquence
Amarr
Exiled.
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Posted - 2007.04.17 09:26:00 -
[6]
/signed
And in response to
 Quote:
Maybe a comprimise is a key stroke that toggles the keyboard between a "chat mode" and a "command mode" with a nice little visual icon on the screen somplace.
-AS
That would be why the op said...
Quote:
An option to switch between two modes: "Straight to Chat" and "Enter to Chat". Straight to Chat is how things are now while Enter To Chat requires you to press Enter or Return before you can start talking.
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.17 21:12:00 -
[7]
/signed
Dig the toggle button to swap from chat to command. Most of us in major fleet combat use vent/TS for comms and only need to command the ship anyway. This lets you choose.
I also like the responder who said some kind of status bar showing scrambled/webbed/jammed... wait... there already IS one for jammed. So it can't be hard :-)
And on that vein, jamming is a chance-based thing. you have X sensor strength. Baddy has Y jammer strength. X:Y dictates your chances of jamming or getting jammed. So why isn't warp jamming done the same way? It makes more sense to me for you to have a chance of getting scrammed or not getting scrammed- even if you have WCS (or your target does). I dunno. Don't wanna hijack your thread.
UI is fubared. let's fix that first :-)
------
Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.05.03 16:00:00 -
[8]
/signed.
i want draggable UI elements too.
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Draconius Rex
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Posted - 2007.06.16 18:20:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Draconius Rex on 16/06/2007 18:20:58
/signed
Hotkeys for drone commands would be nice too
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Terazuk
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Posted - 2007.06.16 19:05:00 -
[10]
/signed
~
"*BANG* you're dead!"
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Signaldog
Gallente
Venom.
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Posted - 2007.06.17 01:40:00 -
[11]
/signed, but lets not take it too far....if you clutter the HUD up too much, i won't be able to see anything (I happen to use visuals alot)...maybe a CUSTOMIZABLE HUD with all of the different options spoken about in this thread.
But overall, great ideas.
READ MY SALVAGER THREAD HERE!!!!
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Mars Mante
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Posted - 2007.06.17 12:01:00 -
[12]
/not signed
Short word: macros
Macro mining does happen now, but not as extensively as it could.
Make it easier -> more macro mining
more macro mining -> stronger ISK inflation
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Tzesaeia
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Posted - 2007.06.19 17:26:00 -
[13]
/ not signed
Because. Eve should never become a counter strike, joystick, shortcuts game. I want my tactics to succeed because of my intelligence not because i stay online the most hours a day training to push the buttons faster
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SweetSarcasm
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Posted - 2007.06.21 00:34:00 -
[14]
/signed
In addition to the drone hotkeys mentioned above (keys as simple as "Engage Target" or "Return" would be insanely helpful), I would like to propose keys that might be able to be bound to actions considered a little less standard.
Hotkey for setting orbit distance!
As it stands, in order to change an orbit from the default one you set, you have to *locate your target, right-click, submenu, submenu, choose pre-defined or current...* and by the time you've set a new orbit distance the fight is done. Having hotkeys to adjust your default orbit distance, or merely augment or diminish your current orbit distance would simplify the whole issue.
In response to 'making the game too easy', mining macros are a bit difficult to argue with, however in combat situations, HotKeys will not suddenly make the line between good and great players disappear, it will simply allow both groups to execute their tactics faster and more efficiently. The better pilot will still win, but maybe because of better tactics instead of faster mouse clicking.
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keex
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Posted - 2007.06.26 08:48:00 -
[15]
/signed
I think that a gameplay will be much easier for players with these shortcut keys and ability to write small macros and bind it to needed keys. :) I really feel hurt when I need choose my station from list and click "dock" on that. I want to create simple code with functions like "select", "dock", "gang_wrap_to" and so on... They have some script language in game inners, I suppose. And this is not too large task to be made. If CCP guys will provide these abilities, I will feel me almost happy :)
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Master Poodi
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Posted - 2007.07.05 19:40:00 -
[16]
/signed and /signed again
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Arunis Miriabilis
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Posted - 2007.07.13 12:16:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Arunis Miriabilis on 13/07/2007 12:18:07
/signed by all of my characters!
Oh, and I just wanted to note, that it would be very nice, if a player was able to select individual drones and issue commands to them (attack, return & orbit, return to bay) by only using the keyboard!
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ReactorSoldierX
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Posted - 2007.07.19 14:21:00 -
[18]
/signed
especially drone shortcuts.
Drone attack can be Alt+A, Back to drone bay can be Alt+B and so on...
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Aneroi
Amarr
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.19 16:05:00 -
[19]
We really need a customizable UI and hotkeys. and give us a working drone UI while your at it
http://aneroi.tk |
DRMALIKIA
United Technologies
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Posted - 2007.07.19 17:46:00 -
[20]
/signed once for me
/signed once my alt (hey I pay for two, I get two votes)
/signed for my corp
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
if you don't bother to read the tread could you pls keep your comment out of it ? please:) |
Xorlev
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Posted - 2007.07.19 20:18:00 -
[21]
/signedx3
I'm not always the steadiest with the mouse, especially with the awkward positioning it has in relation to the keyboard. I'd probably do a lot better if I didn't have to send drones at a new target with my mouse. I've got no qualms selecting and engaging targets with a Ctrl + Click and deactivating single weapons with a similar click on the active target (two rather unknown hybrid key combos), but activating drones and such DO need a keycombo.
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Thunder Girl
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Posted - 2007.07.26 04:56:00 -
[22]
I agree with you on the UI updates - I want to see the status of my ship if I am being scrambled or not, etc.
But I disagree with having more shortcuts.
CTRL+SPACE already stops the ship
CTRL+CLICK on a target works fine already.
And, simply typing when the nav has focus is a lot easier when in mid battle.
Keyboard shortcuts are already as customizable as they need to be.
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.07.26 09:59:00 -
[23]
I want my shortcut keys! Whacking a few keys on a keyboard is immensely easier and more intuitive than navigating a nasty right click menu.
And the Drone UI sucks. It isn't bad when you only have 5-10 drones. Then you step into your first Dominix and have 30 drones in 6 groups and it gets bad. . . I can only imagine how much fun that is for Carrier/MS pilots.
--------------------------------------------------
ICE Blueprint Sales |
Innochanid
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Posted - 2007.07.27 09:42:00 -
[24]
/signed
A request very well written by The Major and I couldn't agree more: You know there's something wrong when you're fighting the game interface instead of your enemies :)
That being said, on all other accounts than the missing keybinds, the EVE UI is by far the best I've experienced in any game. It's very clean and intuitive, an impressive feat given the huge amounts of data you need to display.
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K'Dray Agiular
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Posted - 2007.07.30 15:00:00 -
[25]
/signed |
Threv Echandari
Caldari
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.02 15:03:00 -
[26]
OK I have to add the obligatory Signed.. I have mentioned this in General but For the love of...EVE please give us those Shortcuts.. I dont mind Ctl or Shifting in order not to go to the Chat Interface but PUHLEEEEEASE. add these.. Sooner
Thanks!
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Merkanas
Caldari
Chaos Murder and Hayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.02 17:06:00 -
[27]
Hate to break this to some people... but there are idicators that state what's going on with your ship. I always know when i'm scambled and webbed. I also always know when I have someone scambled and webbed. It goes true for anything of the such. If you don't see it, your not looking in the correct place.
As for the more macro's.... umm... no. Mainly because this isn't your standard hack and slash mmo. To do so, would make it a button mashing war on who can mash their hotkeys the fastest. If you want that, go play WoW or Diablo.
Although, dones should have their own set of hotkeys. That part I do agree. Mainly because it's a form of attack no different then pressing F1 to fire and F1 again to stop. It's true that they will auto deffend, and auto attack for you, but you need to have them in orbit before any of that happens.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.08.02 17:41:00 -
[28]
/signed
Becose: I dont want to EVE be like CS based on who can faster work with mouse in taht stupid dropdown menus.
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Rakaim
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Posted - 2007.08.18 03:45:00 -
[29]
/signed
Great idea, When I joined over a year ago I didn't understand why I couldn't hotkey everything. Hotkey'ing is really beautiful - but since I talk to corp a lot, I too would need another hotkey to toggle chat/hotkey modes. 
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Nebulizer
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Posted - 2007.08.23 16:36:00 -
[30]
Please more keyboard shortcuts. The pain in my mouse hand (lefty!) is so bad I can barely play some days.
A key to tab through ships/things we've targeted would be golden. |
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