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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.04.18 16:32:00 -
[1]
We've had some good Blogs recently, but as we all know the most interesting ones are about what will come to EVE, and the drought is now ove(u)r. Oveur brings up what happened, and will happen, in Revelations 1.4.X, quickly skips ahead to the whole "fix bugs first, add content later" issue and then moves on to Revelations 2.0.
We are going to create a lag thread, to identify where you experience lag and what to do about it, and our Dev Blog ends on that note. Please head over and read Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom - and lag?
But fear not, we are also taking this opportunity to announce the new Dev Chats, which you can read more about in this news item. But to make it simple, I will put a copy of the news item in this post as well:
HEAR YE! HEAR YE! TIME FOR A NEW KIND OF DEV BLOGS, THE DEV CHAT
In the early part of the twentieth century, Hollywood brought sound to the motion pictures, creating the "talkies". Now, in the beginning of the twentyfirst century, CCP brings sound to the Dev Blogs, creating the "Dev Chat"!
Please note that this new form of Dev Blogs will only add to our current ways of communicating such as the "Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom - and lag?" Dev Blog by Oveur, published today, it will not replace Dev Blogs or forum posts.
So, what is this new Dev Chat then?
Oveur and Hammerhead will be talking about the Revelations 2 ramp up and then answer questions from the audience. The event will start Thursday 19 April at 20:00 GMT and take about an hour. This will be a regular occurrence over the next weeks.
Ok, but how do I participate in the Dev Chat?
The following steps must be taken to participate in the Dev Chat:
- You must have EVE Voice enabled, EVE Voice can be activated here.
- The name of the channel to join is 'Dev Chat' û users must right click and select 'join audio' to be able to hear.
- Dev Chat channel has a maximum capacity of 400 people, and if you can¦t join itæs because the channel is full.
- You can text questions to a moderator who will track them and send them to Oveur and Hammerhead so they can answer after they¦ve finished their comments.
- A GM will be present in the channel to remind everyone that they're muted and that they can text questions to the moderator.
What do I do if I miss this Dev Chat?
The Dev Chats will be recorded and made available later.
Where can I post what I think about this Dev Chat?
Since it's announced in a Dev Blog today, among other things, we ask that you discuss it in the Dev Blog announcement thread here (Which is of course this thread).
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base
Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ |
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Isotobe
Caldari
Mercenaries of Andosia
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.18 16:43:00 -
[2]
1st 
Very nice blog, thanks for the information.
Regards,
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KaptnSparrow
Caldari
TARDZ
Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.04.18 16:50:00 -
[3]
2nd finally lag gets some attentio...
...eve's worst pirate...
...if I missed killmails of the past, please update the killboard! |
Chaimera
Grumpy Old Farts
Gruntfuttocks
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:04:00 -
[4]
Thank you as always for the information. It is much appreciated.
Beware of the killer grumpies! |
Saskia Elko
Independant Union of Rangers
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:05:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Saskia Elko on 18/04/2007 17:01:34
So how many new customers to eve voice will it take before ccp doesn't have the time to continue with the dev chats?
Edit: I still won't be buying it
*snip* -please do not use that. -Kaemonn
 Originally by: Dianabolic
That's what I'm saying, yes. If you fly with people that make you look bad, guess what? You look bad.
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iudex
Caldari
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:06:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Anxiety for me is a good thing. It's a complex feeling and you can have it for positive and negative reasons, but in the end, it's one of my main driving forces.
Remember what Yoda said about anxiety 
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Emo Jelli
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:09:00 -
[7]
Nice ploy to get more of us to sign up for EVE Voice 
Emo JelliÖ¡¡ - Foodstuff for the Emotionally Unstable |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:20:00 -
[8]
IRC > Eve Voice. oh well.
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[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
Bein Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:21:00 -
[9]
Remember the titans. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:25:00 -
[10]
Hope it works.
...
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Kaiso Ohad
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:31:00 -
[11]
I like Oveur blogs and I like Dev Chat.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:34:00 -
[12]
I could have been first, but I actually read the blog before I replied. Im getting old, arent I... 
Im a big fan of the game, but I still think you are focusing on the wrong things. Its like you are attempting to fix the worst lag situations by hand instead of realizing that maybe its time for a completely new client. Then again, I dont really know what the best course of action is since you dont write any blogs about what actually makes the game so slow. The game has been becoming slower and slower in the last year, despite an amazing amount of effort from you guys with new hardware, Need for Speed-thingie, instant bookmark elimination etc. I know that a year ago I could run a mission with no problems on my old laptop. These days I have to turn off effects, sounds etc just to run the same game on my pretty new computer with a 6800GT graphics card.
I know you have a new vista client with new graphics coming, but if you just bolt new graphics on this lagmonster, you havent really solved the main problem. The game is slow and you need to fix it by doing something drastic, like writing completely new network code or making the client more asynchronous to make it appear faster. I have no idea, you guys should know what to do to fix things. But I feel its not really being done. It feels like you are plugging holes instead of buying a new boat.
Looking forward to the Vista client and I really hope it makes things smooth again.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Jak'ai
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:38:00 -
[13]
Can't say I'm wild about the Dev Chat thing as I happen to be one of those "other side of the planet"-type people who will be working during the announced time period.
Will these Dev Chat times be varied to cover other timezones? I mean - I could get away with having something up on IRC / messenger / etc, but for some reason my boss doesn't seem inclined to upgrade my workstation to something that will run EVE.  
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Templer Relleg
Exit 13
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:40:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/04/2007 17:37:40
Dev chats over eve voice = Bad.. Mkay?
And just the limitation with 400 players is stupid i think.
"I wanted to ask this question, and i just paid xú to get eve voice just to get onto the dev chat.. And the room was full!"
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Babbette
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:41:00 -
[15]
Nothing about any drone "improvements". That makes me sad.
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Emo Jelli
Nice ploy to get more of us to sign up for EVE Voice
Ah comeon thats not fair, they have to find a use for it somewhere.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Anyone comparing CCP to a glacier is really not being fair to the glacier.
Tripping The Rift Since 2005 |
Standard Deviation
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:45:00 -
[17]
Real great dev blog.
You need to fix your super capitals.
Remote DD should go.
Someway to hold ships in place, or to make them risk the ship to fire off a dd.
Maybe no dd and cloak on at the same time.
Something done about cap issues on these things. Low cap usage on DD, insane recharge rates with expensive fittings.
Moms are solo pwnmobiles in low sec. I thought you were never going to introduce solo pwnmobiles.
Oh and fix the Minnie carrier, its been a year.
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:46:00 -
[18]
Make sure you check The beaten-with-the-ugly-stick-lag-monster thread to help us defeat lag!
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base
Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ |
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Lord Zuku
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:47:00 -
[19]
CCP is trying to the solve lag problem by scaling up the cluster (upgrading servers). This is expensive and you eventually reach the point where you can no longer scale fast enough (fleet battles). What CCP needs to do is scale out. They need to enable nodes to run on several computers in parallel like on any proper cluster. After the code has been modified to run in parallel, we could have 1000 vs 1000 battles without any server-side lag. Client on the other hand...
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Vincent S
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:53:00 -
[20]
I'd really appreciate a comment from the devs on the titan situation. Do you acknowledge that their design sucks all the fun out of fleet warfare? Do you realize that you've destroyed all fun for hundreds, if not thousands of people, who are in smaller alliances and can never hope to get a titan, because we'd get steamrolled the second a cap ship assembly array was put up? Do you think it's balanced when a single alliance has three or four titans?
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.18 17:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 18/04/2007 17:37:05
I could have been first, but I actually read the blog before I replied. Im getting old, arent I...
Im a big fan of the game, but I still think you are focusing on the wrong things. Its like you are attempting to fix the worst lag situations by hand instead of realizing that maybe its time for a completely new client. Then again, I dont really know what the best course of action is since you dont write any blogs about what actually makes the game so slow. The game has been becoming slower and slower in the last year, despite an amazing amount of effort from you guys with new hardware, Need for Speed-thingie, instant bookmark elimination etc. I know that a year ago I could run a mission with no problems on my old laptop. These days I have to turn off effects, sounds etc just to run the same game on my pretty new computer with a 6800GT graphics card. Im not talking about the server being slow here. The client is. Im lucky to get above 20 fps. The client is rendering squares and lines since im zoomed out to the max. Why the heck is it so slow?
I know you have a new vista client with new graphics coming, but if you just bolt new graphics on this lagmonster, you havent really solved the main problem. The game is slow and you need to fix it by doing something drastic, like writing completely new network code or making the client more asynchronous to make it appear faster. I have no idea, you guys should know what to do to fix things. But I feel its not really being done. It feels like you are plugging holes instead of buying a new boat.
Looking forward to the Vista client and I really hope it makes things smooth again.
We're both getting old Jim 
We do actually have a new network layer (wich has a spiffy but ominous name, "Slipstream"). You already know about the updated graphics engine in addition to the Vista engine coming out and without giving you a firm date, we want it out before end-of-year, which is Kali 3 territory, which includes all the renovated models if you want to use them.
This also applies for our new sound engine which has already started, it should provide more support and perform better. This is all part of us splitting the company into more core technology, which only focus on that and into the more higher-layer game logic layer.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:05:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jak'ai
Edited by: Jak''ai on 18/04/2007 17:53:36
Can't say I'm wild about the Dev Chat thing as I happen to be one of those "other side of the planet"-type people who will be working during the announced time period.
Will these Dev Chat times be varied to cover other timezones? I mean - I could get away with having something up on IRC / messenger / etc, but for some reason my boss doesn't seem inclined to upgrade my workstation to something that will run EVE.
Post Blog-read edit
I have to echo Jim McG when I ask "where does the lag come from anyway?". I remember there was a dev blog way back where that addressed sources of lag, but I can't for the life of me figure out where it could be coming from in reality. The servers seem plenty fast enough (at least I don't see many de-synch events that I'd normally blame on the server), generally speaking the network doesn't seem a problem, so what is it client-side that lags things out?
The models are fairly simple, there isn't very much in the way of individual variation that needs to be rendered (at least compared to a standard avatar-based MMO), and the "landscape" is as simple as it gets. Colour me confused.
That aside - I've always wondered - is it technologically impossible to have a client communicate back to the server when recieving and rendering data? Sort of like the client saying "woah woah woah - I've got enough to deal with here" and the server responding with streaming a smaller "vital set" data load that would at least allow the player to continue playing in real-time rather than slide-showing while the client recieves all the information at once.
We're simply trying this voice chat out. I assume there will be a downloadable version later on (don't shoot me if I'm wrong) and I'll ask if that can happen. If it works well, we can have these more often in more timezones, I'm happy taking an early morning to accomodate other timezones.
Regarding LODing in the client, this will be handled better in the updated graphics engine but as you point out, that's nothing to do with the data stream. The data stream has also been worked on, and it's still sending mostly relevant data already (just check bandwidth usage of EVE, it's not that high).
Server lag is very visible on the client though and even though Jim points out the client isn't the sexy performing beast it was in the old days, this has more to do with the servers not being able to send out to 500 clients all the state updates of all the other 499 clients, Starbases etc. around you. This can then build up, meaning your client is actually waiting for very relevant data simply waiting in a holding pattern (you can't predict what button one of those 499 other players do). This can also happen on a solar system level and on node level, you don't have to be in a fleet battle. Just visit Saila.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Briana Flametop
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Real great dev blog.
You need to fix your super capitals.
Remote DD should go.
Someway to hold ships in place, or to make them risk the ship to fire off a dd.
Maybe no dd and cloak on at the same time.
Something done about cap issues on these things. Low cap usage on DD, insane recharge rates with expensive fittings.
Moms are solo pwnmobiles in low sec. I thought you were never going to introduce solo pwnmobiles.
Oh and fix the Minnie carrier, its been a year.
A succinct and accurate summary - Devs, please read this.  |
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lord Zuku
CCP is trying to the solve lag problem by scaling up the cluster (upgrading servers). This is expensive and you eventually reach the point where you can no longer scale fast enough (fleet battles). What CCP needs to do is scale out. They need to enable nodes to run on several computers in parallel like on any proper cluster. After the code has been modified to run in parallel, we could have 1000 vs 1000 battles without any server-side lag. Client on the other hand...
This is already happening on the cluster. A node hosts multiple services from various solar systems. The problem is that the finest grain which is problematic is the solar system itself, meaning a solar system can't scale out over multiple nodes. We have a couple of initiatives there, such as a lot of what's happening in Revelations 2 on the game design level simply encouraging people to do something else than blob, we have some lower level Python initiatives and there is some interesting trends coming in hardware too which we can utilize.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/04/2007 17:37:40
Dev chats over eve voice = Bad.. Mkay?
And just the limitation with 400 players is stupid i think.
"I wanted to ask this question, and i just paid xú to get eve voice just to get onto the dev chat.. And the room was full!"
EVE Voice is free right now.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
We're both getting old Jim
We do actually have a new network layer (wich has a spiffy but ominous name, "Slipstream"). You already know about the updated graphics engine in addition to the Vista engine coming out and without giving you a firm date, we want it out before end-of-year, which is Kali 3 territory, which includes all the renovated models if you want to use them.
This also applies for our new sound engine which has already started, it should provide more support and perform better. This is all part of us splitting the company into more core technology, which only focus on that and into the more higher-layer game logic layer.
Ah, you DO have a new network layer! Thats great news tbh, I didnt know that... and im very glad to hear it. I think its exacly what the game needs. Now I shall repeat these great news to the masses in the phorumz, when needed. :)
These days I do have a job so I dont post a billion times a day anymore, but im around, lurking.... :)
See you around the forums!
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Babbette
Nothing about any drone "improvements". That makes me sad.
There are drone fixes and optimizations which are covered in general with "more focus on fixes and optimizations", I just covered the highligts in this blog. There are around 600 of such waiting for programmer love
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Real great dev blog.
You need to fix your super capitals.
Remote DD should go.
Someway to hold ships in place, or to make them risk the ship to fire off a dd.
Maybe no dd and cloak on at the same time.
Something done about cap issues on these things. Low cap usage on DD, insane recharge rates with expensive fittings.
Moms are solo pwnmobiles in low sec. I thought you were never going to introduce solo pwnmobiles.
Oh and fix the Minnie carrier, its been a year.
We're monitoring all the larger capital ships now that they are seeing far more usage. There is a lot happening in Starbases and Outpost which change the playing field considerably. On low sec specifically and moms, is it the ability to designate the fighters or are you actually seeing them in combat up close and personal?
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Templer Relleg
Exit 13
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Templer Relleg
Edited by: Templer Relleg on 18/04/2007 17:37:40
Dev chats over eve voice = Bad.. Mkay?
And just the limitation with 400 players is stupid i think.
"I wanted to ask this question, and i just paid xú to get eve voice just to get onto the dev chat.. And the room was full!"
EVE Voice is free right now.
Really? Ill be there then and ask alot of questions which you forgot in this post!
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General Xerxes
Delta Omega Iota Inc.
Breidablik
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Lord Zuku
CCP is trying to the solve lag problem by scaling up the cluster (upgrading servers). This is expensive and you eventually reach the point where you can no longer scale fast enough (fleet battles). What CCP needs to do is scale out. They need to enable nodes to run on several computers in parallel like on any proper cluster. After the code has been modified to run in parallel, we could have 1000 vs 1000 battles without any server-side lag. Client on the other hand...
This is already happening on the cluster. A node hosts multiple services from various solar systems. The problem is that the finest grain which is problematic is the solar system itself, meaning a solar system can't scale out over multiple nodes. We have a couple of initiatives there, such as a lot of what's happening in Revelations 2 on the game design level simply encouraging people to do something else than blob, we have some lower level Python initiatives and there is some interesting trends coming in hardware too which we can utilize.
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why can't a solar system be spread across mutiple CPU cores? Is it actually impossible or is it just that the way EVE is built means it can't work that way? Surely making this possible would solve must of the server side problems encountered in huge fleet battles and places like Jita...
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Kvarium Ki
legion of qui
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:54:00 -
[31]
Would it be possible to have an alternate "light" client? I don't care if all I'm seeing is some wire-frame cubes that represent ships.
KK.
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Standard Deviation
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Posted - 2007.04.18 18:57:00 -
[32]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Real great dev blog.
You need to fix your super capitals.
Remote DD should go.
Someway to hold ships in place, or to make them risk the ship to fire off a dd.
Maybe no dd and cloak on at the same time.
Something done about cap issues on these things. Low cap usage on DD, insane recharge rates with expensive fittings.
Moms are solo pwnmobiles in low sec. I thought you were never going to introduce solo pwnmobiles.
Oh and fix the Minnie carrier, its been a year.
We're monitoring all the larger capital ships now that they are seeing far more usage. There is a lot happening in Starbases and Outpost which change the playing field considerably. On low sec specifically and moms, is it the ability to designate the fighters or are you actually seeing them in combat up close and personal?
Up close and personal. Camping in the gates.
Standard procedure is they sit at the gate, more often using drones rather than fighters. Sometimes there is gang, sometimes not.
If anything really hostile jumps in system, they either warp off cloak, or jump out of system.
In low sec there is no ability to stop the warp. Bumping is only marginally effective, and there is no dictors.
A large enough gang can chase them off, but the chances of actually killing it, if its flown by a competent pilot is rather low
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Br0wn 0ps
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Posted - 2007.04.18 19:06:00 -
[33]
I hope that one of the initiatives that you are working on is dynamically allowing multiple CPUs handle not just a single system, but a single grid. Then, truly, you would not be limiting fleet battles or generating lag based on the fact that the server CPU cannot handle the load. 100 ships jumping into a system, would signal the load handler to assign more CPUs to the grid being jumped into, allowing for the networking layer and clients to be the limiting factor in a fleet battle, not the game servers.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.18 19:07:00 -
[34]
Disappointed about no mention of Drones. Maybe they'll get their own blog.........
*/wishful thinking*
Good blog though, otherwise. Can't wait to hear more about Heat.
--------
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.04.18 19:15:00 -
[35]
Another mention of the drone region roids:
Quote:
For example, the asteroid reseed in the new regions is slow - because it's a reseed, it's not a refill of them all. They take time to grow to their original size, but at least, now they are growing (which they didn't).
What are you saying here?
Is it the intent of CCP to make roids 'grow' at the same speed as roids in other regions or not? Still not clear to me from this post.
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Athena Attom
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Posted - 2007.04.18 19:57:00 -
[36]
So in order to beat the lag you are stopping or trying to stop large scale fleet battles? I for one certainly enjoy the large battles okay lag is an issue but it is with every online game for example Counter Strike Source; unless you have a top end machine you are going to lag out when there is 15 people having a shoot em' up with nades going everywhere its something you adapt your play to accommodate.
I personally love fleet battles -> 150 vs 150; hell even bigger... I would be intrested to know how you plan to defeat blobbing with out removing a very enjoyable ( yet laggy i know ) part of the game? There is no other game that allows that number of people to interact be it fighting or trading at the same time which is a key thing that makes eve what it is.
Could you possibly explain to me what your plan for anti blobbing might be or why you feel destroying the blobs are necessary?
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dor amwar
Occam's Razor Combine
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:00:00 -
[37]
i can see you put some effort into this blog, unfortunalty it really contained little to no new information. still the same promises of improvement with more requests of effort on our part. i would be happy to contibute but unfortunalty i need to spend my extra time earning isk to replace losses from the main current issue (as i see it) lag, since ccp is unwilling to make compensation. the blogs earlier in the year about the speed improvements have proven that ccp is unable to deliver on what they promise, why should i believe (and put effort towards) the latest propoganda?
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Fedacorr
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:01:00 -
[38]
Will this 'we're working on lag' be the one where you FINALLY admit the hundreds of unused/signage only cans in asteroid fields and around gates need to GO?
Or will you flatly refuse to take note, much less fix, this ongoing problem?
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Lumy
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:10:00 -
[39]
Originally by: General Xerxes
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but why can't a solar system be spread across mutiple CPU cores? Is it actually impossible or is it just that the way EVE is built means it can't work that way? Surely making this possible would solve must of the server side problems encountered in huge fleet battles and places like Jita...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but...
Major problem are large scale fleet battles, where every pilot has to know everything about everybody else. Where is he heading, what is shooting at, how much HP does he have, and lots of other stuff.
If you were able to split people over multiple nodes somehow, every single node would have to know everything anyway. So it would not save any load, but would just add more load due to communication.
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Jak'ai
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:16:00 -
[40]
<3 CCP Devs. Nowhere else in the industry can you hope for or even buy the level of relevant communication we get from you guys (outside of a beta community anyway). No matter what else comes, it's a class act IMO.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Server lag is very visible on the client though and even though Jim points out the client isn't the sexy performing beast it was in the old days, this has more to do with the servers not being able to send out to 500 clients all the state updates of all the other 499 clients, Starbases etc. around you. This can then build up, meaning your client is actually waiting for very relevant data simply waiting in a holding pattern (you can't predict what button one of those 499 other players do). This can also happen on a solar system level and on node level, you don't have to be in a fleet battle. Just visit Saila.
Sounds like the anti-blob initiative is the only hope I guess. There is only so much you can do if you're waiting for user input I guess - other than reducing the sources of input.
Best of luck - I'd offer my own ideas, but I've always had a tendancy to design out "fun" in favour of "realism"  .
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Riley Craven
Caldari
Copacetic Corporation
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:31:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/04/2007 20:28:52
Originally by: CCP Oveur
We have a couple of initiatives there, such as a lot of what's happening in Revelations 2 on the game design level simply encouraging people to do something else than blob, we have some lower level Python initiatives and there is some interesting trends coming in hardware too which we can utilize.
Hi Oveur, I am making a new intiative to try and still be honest but not so damn mean about it, so here goes.
To me these statements showcase why the game suffers from the problems it does now. All of the solutions I have seen posted have been trying to address the outliers of the problem and not the actual problem itself. I wont pretend to think that you can make a game that can handle a 1000 man fleet battle with todays technology, but your marketing dept has really been selling the game on that nature. What you suggest above such as making people want to have less big fleet battles doesnt actually address the lag issue, it just means you limit what players do so that they dont create the lag. I feel the company's focus on the lag issue and on other issues in general has always been lets side step the real issue and address a part of the problem. I know you guys are trying, but I just wish you would focus more on creating a game that can handle such things. When you do that it will make you a GREAT company instead of just a good company. I know its a tough problem, but I dont think you should always focus on the simple ways to solve problems. Just think what your RP dept could do if you guys came up with an effective solution. You guys would be legends! :)
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Cerwyn Taraman
Minmatar
Phoenix Tech Industries
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:41:00 -
[42]
Oveur,
Maybe this is what you referred to with hardware initiatives you were thinking about etc. But has the Dev Team ever seriously looked at something like VMWare's ESX to do some virtualization and provisioning?
I know maybe at first glance, virtualizing a node when you are having high CPU issues seems rather silly, but the cool thing about VMWare is the provisioning. Viewing the whole cluster at once, the VMWare software could dynamically move services with high load onto less utilized nodes etc to really help do rapid dynamic load balancing. I'm sure VM could develop a solution that would help EVE if the EVE code were written around using the idea.
Now, this doesn't fix the core issue of granularity with the solar system being the smallest atom in the system that can't be split (which needs to be changed - maybe each "grid" can be on its own node in the worst case scenario so large battles on one grid don't affect the rest of the solar system or constellation).
If you are using IBM Blades, they work really well with virtualization as the University system i'm part of is using a lot of them with VMWare's ESX software.
---------
You have now entered the sig zone!
Apoapsis Multiversal Recruitment Officer
Want to know what Apoapsis means or what we are about? Visit our recruitment post here: http://myeve.eve-o |
Jao Ling
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:48:00 -
[43]
The patch should be called 1.4.P
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dor amwar
Occam's Razor Combine
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:51:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Riley Craven
Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/04/2007 20:28:52
Hi Oveur, I am making a new intiative to try and still be honest but not so damn mean about it, so here goes.
for my part i'm not trying to be mean, just honest and blunt. i've only been in eve for around 6 months, i don't have the huge history of skills to easly roll with all the changes that come around. still working on the basics that all players need with a few sidetracks here and there so i can have some fun and earn some isk. it just seems that everything is always changing and i'm never sure where to go with skills. too many dead ends till now. the newish players are not sure where to take long term skill planning.
the one advice ccp always says is they want people to move to 0.0. done that recently and i like the change from empire. first major fleet battle of over 50 ships and i saw a slideshow. hmmm, seems that doesn't work either and ccp just does not care...not seen in logs bla bla. maybe the devs care but support does not. maybe we are seeing a split inside ccp where support is just not willing to hold the show for dev promises anymore.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.04.18 20:54:00 -
[45]
Much like your last blog, it sounds great, but we'll have to wait and see.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
"We need to invent a new Clue Super Weapon... Something that distributes clue on a never before seen level." -Cpt Psycho |
Whiskey Girl
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Posted - 2007.04.18 21:00:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 18/04/2007 17:41:24
Hope it works.
<edit> The blog, while entertaining as most blogs from Oveur, gives no new information and hints at some serious problems with development work that are forcing further and further delays to promised features. Perhaps CCP should try focusing on simpler but far more influential (in terms of their affect on gameplay) and less shiny changes to game mechanics? For example, I didn't see any mention of the Local being used as a recon tool issue. Does that mean CCP decided to shelve this?
You missed the part about needing to have the eve voice activated.More money for eve i don't think so.
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Still Hart
Chaos Reborn
1 Shot 1 Kill
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Posted - 2007.04.18 21:08:00 -
[47]
Okay seriously, I'm not one to criticize CCP in general. I love you guys so far. HOWEVER:
Please fix the item stack bug ASAP!!! This is by far the most annoying bug I've seen in Eve in the 1.5 years I've been playing. This is almost as bad as the cloakers being locked when cloaked bug. Nearly as bad as the cyno/cloak bug. Unfortunately tho it gets me EVERY time I use Eve.
I'm not going to rant here about how dumb it was that this glaring bug could be introduced onto a production server without anyone noticing, or about how immensely incompetent your testing and QA departments must be. I'm just going to ask that you PLEASE address this issue ASAFP.
How does this relate to the dev blog? Well it wasn't mentioned and that is a crime against all of us who pay you to play this game.
SH
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Raquel Smith
Caldari
Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2007.04.18 21:18:00 -
[48]
Why is CCP excluding deaf/HOH players from participating in chats???!? 
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General Lock
Amarr
Hunters Agency
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.04.18 21:28:00 -
[49]
Edited by: General Lock on 18/04/2007 21:25:37
Hi Oveur, this might be a bit off-topic, but i hope you are reading this..I am a student of the International Game Architecture & Design university in Breda, Netherlands ( NHTV university), and our 'teachers' (Andrew Paquette, Jason Steel and Stefano Gualeni) who are top game dev's them selfes, visited this years GDC 07 and one of them, i thought Stefano did had a word with one of ccp folks at GDC, i thought even with mighty Hilmar. And they told Stefano that you or someone would like to come to Holland and give our class a geust lecture and also told about offering internship places for our course in the 3rd year....now my rl name is Joris Engels....and since i havent heard anything about this, i was just wondering how you people are thinking about this and when you'll be thinking to give this guest lecture....cos i just wanna work for you guys in future...but first internship in 3rd year:)
cheers mates
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
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Posted - 2007.04.18 21:29:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Whiskey Girl
Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 18/04/2007 17:41:24
Hope it works.
<edit> The blog, while entertaining as most blogs from Oveur, gives no new information and hints at some serious problems with development work that are forcing further and further delays to promised features. Perhaps CCP should try focusing on simpler but far more influential (in terms of their affect on gameplay) and less shiny changes to game mechanics? For example, I didn't see any mention of the Local being used as a recon tool issue. Does that mean CCP decided to shelve this?
You missed the part about needing to have the eve voice activated.More money for eve i don't think so.
Well, that was for the dev chat (and is currently free). For general EVE play no one's forcing us to stop using TS (or whatever you're using for voice comms).
...
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General Lock
Amarr
Hunters Agency
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.04.18 21:35:00 -
[51]
Ow to update..for in case some of you devs read or wonder it, i am an Visual Artist and before this education i studied Architecture and have most experience with 3d studio max..but this game development study is fully Maya oriented and i'm getting allong with this app now...in fact i'm even more motivated now that i know that you people also work with maya, so i now know i have and want to get also good at Maya now:)
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Velsharoon
Gallente
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.04.18 21:39:00 -
[52]
When will you deal with making people come into low sec (0.1-0.4). Actually make them worthwhile as opposed to places were nubs go to get blown up, or were agent runners **** themsleves in fear cos they might be killed jumping in.
Better rats/belts is whats needed, in conjunction with agents being put in low sec which is happening at somepoint i gather. High sec empire should be for nubs.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Return
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Posted - 2007.04.18 21:51:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 18/04/2007 21:51:21
No major patches till Rev 2.0? So no amarr oomphf for how many more months? Are you kidding me? I rolled up an Amarr char when I started playing a year ago. I read all the complains about Amarr on the boards but figured by the time my skills are up there something will have been done about it. Guess I was wrong.
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.04.18 22:09:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 18/04/2007 22:06:05
WOOT! I really hope you guys are serious about trying to fix things. Ships have been warping in sideways for so long I've started to think they are supposed to!
Good blog Oveur. I just hope you start busting heads and make it law.
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CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.04.18 22:39:00 -
[55]
The commentary on lag was disappointing as hell because the problems we're having currently have nothing to do with internet or server lag.
The damn client was broken since the last time it was patched or similar and now even moderate sized engagements are unplayable. Fix it because it wasn't like this before.
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lylaal
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Posted - 2007.04.18 23:59:00 -
[56]
In an effort to determine the extent of traffic and effect on the client - have you employed the use of a "Sniffer"? This has been the troubleshooting tool of choice to identify client/server network issues and WAN coding misconceptions - this visibility is key to actively improving and enhancing interaction. The Pingplotter tool is an extention to trace route - the sniffer can show you the 'why'. I urge you to add it to your QA arsenal.
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 00:05:00 -
[57]
Drat. Dev Chat to use eve voice? sigh. Well I'm not buying windows just for that ability. EVE voice does NOT work with cedega...or wine. Just fyi. Other than that, good read on what's coming.
Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE |
Jimbob McKracken
Caldari
The Tidemark
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.19 00:13:00 -
[58]
Great blog - something I really look forward to.....
On the issue of Lag - For me personally Lag or client stutter, as some are calling it, started with the introduction of the Dragon codebase - while it fixed many issues and increased the amount of consecutive players without effecting normal day to day gameplay, fleet engagements of 50+ ships per side were definately "laggier" than before.
With the present client - jumping through systems with large fleets and the FC hitting the gang warp sees my client given the "not responding" tag with a black or sometimes white screen for about 5 seconds before everything suddenly reappear, my ship does about 5 barrel rolls as it enters warp and then everything runs smooth again. Even repackaging all the items in a hanger causes similar issues and stacking all the items at a POS takes forever......
A lot of people have been talking about using RAM drives setup with software on their system and moving certain files in there to speed things up.
Maybe this is an option the devs could look at implementing transparently within the client.
There is also talk in the game development forum that this "lag" or "stutter" is caused by the overview and if you CTRL - TAB and remove all the windows it causes a speed up.
All I know is that its a problem I'd like to see dissapear.
Keep up the good work CCP and keep giving us juicy dev blogs to read.
Oh and fix the lag already 
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Pooka
Caldari
United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2007.04.19 00:42:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Emo Jelli
Nice ploy to get more of us to sign up for EVE Voice
I have 4 memebers in my corp.
Me, my self, me too and don't forget about me. I have NO use for Eve voice.
How about a broadcast on eve radio or something so the rest of us can hear!
PROMISES MADE PROMISES KEPT
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xeom
Exit 13
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Posted - 2007.04.19 01:12:00 -
[60]
Will you guys ever be able to make 1 solar system use multi-nodes?
Or is it impossible with the current software and language you guys have.
---
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
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Sonorra Baki
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.04.19 01:23:00 -
[61]
So this blog is actual proof that Tux was lying when he said more oomph for amarr.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.19 01:35:00 -
[62]
Blobs cause lag. Fix the lag, and blobs aren't needed. It is a circle that I don't know how you are going to fix. Bring 2 equal fleets together, with same quality equipments, and same quality FC, and the one jumping in will loose more often than not, simply becuase they suffer from the most jump in lag. Thereofre, you need to bring about 1.5x the denfending force, and hope that you have as many pilots able to actively respnd to orders.
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Shiraz Merlot
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 01:38:00 -
[63]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
We have a couple of initiatives there, such as a lot of what's happening in Revelations 2 on the game design level simply encouraging people to do something else than blob, we have some lower level Python initiatives and there is some interesting trends coming in hardware too which we can utilize.
For a couple of months I've been mulling over whether or not to keep my three Eve accounts, because I believe that fleetbattles in Eve are being constrained on the server side by (Stackless) Python's SMP-unfriendly scheduler and the problematic granularity of the server code.
This statement was the clincher. I'm keeping them alive.
People usually say "that's it, I'm leaving." This is the opposite :)
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Shiraz Merlot
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 01:43:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Cerwyn Taraman
If you are using IBM Blades, they work really well with virtualization as the University system i'm part of is using a lot of them with VMWare's ESX software.
Or Xen does the same job with less interface cowdung, and for no money. However, self-migrating Stackless processes would be cooler than either :-)
As you say though, this improves only the ability to manage transient peak loads, and doesn't raise the cap on them.
/sm
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Wrayeth
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.04.19 01:59:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 19/04/2007 01:56:28
Originally by: Sonorra Baki
So this blog is actual proof that Tux was lying when he said more oomph for amarr.
Really? Doesn't that fall under "general fixes and improvements"?
P.S. Oveur, Tux, et. al. is there any chance we could see the fittings on the nighthawk loosened a bit as part of the general improvements? It's slightly short of CPU and massively short on powergrid. I have to run two RCU II's to fit a full rack of HAM launchers, large shield booster, cap injector, and the MWD to get close enough to use HAMs, and I still can't fill my 7th highslot with so much as a medium nos, much less a gang mod. 
P.P.S. I have AWU 5.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might
As well
Train
Another
Race |
Evelgrivion
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.19 02:01:00 -
[66]
In an attempt to sum up what Oveur said about the issues being brought up, here's what he has stated:
1. All ship balance issues are being looked into, especially in regards to super capital ships now that they exist in more than a test environment.
2. More hardware is being added to sustain the server when things get ugly.
3. With the multi-core CPU designs, it could well be in eve's future to finally spread a solar system across multiple processors, thus dramatically raising the limit of ships before the solar system becomes unusably lag laden.
4. The very mechanics of 0.0 warfare are being changed so that the uber-blob is not a necessity for every maneuver.
5. Feel the need to whine about lag? Provide the requested information in the provided thread so the bug hunters know where to look
I think that just about covers everything people are concerned, and pondering about. Personally at this point I prefer to "wait and see"
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This isn't the signature you're looking for. |
Xenofur
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 02:01:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Xenofur on 19/04/2007 01:59:43
wow, just wow. trying to force people to use the eve voice thing. what happened to having a product that was BETTER than others? a product that you wanted because it offered more, easier and faster? one that doesn't need ridiculous forced advertisement.
and as the very next thing you demonstrate how you have absolutely no clue what people mean when they say lag? i'll put it in easy words for you: when i warp into a fleet engagement and the client just COMPLETELY STOPS DOING ANYTHING while loading everyone who is there, then that is not any kind of lag that can be fixed by faster interweb tubes. it is something that can only be fixed by repairing the broken mess you dare call a client engine.
heck, i'll be even making it extra easy for you: Make it so the client never stops rendering new frames, make it so the client never stops responding to UI interaction, no matter wether it is loading data from the hdd or from your server, and you will have eleminated 90% of all lag complaints.
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Mikhalio
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Posted - 2007.04.19 02:30:00 -
[68]
Evening,
First off, I must applaud the CPP team for attempting to maintain the grassroots nature of EvE. This is an industry trend that has fallen to the wayside since Everquest, but is crucial in maintaining consistent and long term player branding, as I suspect your rise in subscriptions has proven. Despite this however, I believe CPP is underperforming the EvE brand and stewardship.
Since I first subscribed in the Red Moon expansion, the key concern has been two issues. Lag, and the causes of lag. EvEÆs focus and market gimmick is sandboxing, which, outside of Second Life no other market entrant does as well. In the past two years however, as mentioned above and elsewhere the problems of lag and feasible game play have been declining, not improving. Let me put it this way, computers less then a month old and have been World of Warcraft workhorses can barely play EvE at a respectable 30 fps since the Revelations relaunch of EvE. There is something wrong with your backend, and the sooner this is circumvented the better. Node capping however not a solution, immersion and play style of EvE is are all about minimal direct developer intervention, and it should remain this way.
The best strategy would be to observe how a policy economist would advise the situation. As Tux has realized, games like first person shooters and their ilk overcome the bottlenecking through either a sub game of tactical objectives, or permutations of control events such that there is no one definitive strategy that will overrule the battle. We all understand the mechanics sovereignty and POS warfare is to represent, they are to be flag nodes in space. However I think the game has matured to the point (and for the sake of your own IRR) new objectives need to make not blobbing an issue. In the design of Alterac Valley 1.0 in Warcraft it was decided to not force players to one point, rather give each objective the same payoff as any other point on the map. An example to highlight this was the strategic use of cavalry æquestingÆ as a policy response to player rushes, or bottlenecks. Sub games such as these, within the confines of the sovereignty payoff strategy are a far more effective use of your capital, and expertise. They require minimal overhauling of your client ( no game on the market can come close to what you folks have done with Python, which is a synergy of CPP alone), and require minimalist effort to revise and æbalanceÆ.
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Mikhalio
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Posted - 2007.04.19 02:31:00 -
[69]
(appended due to character per post limit)
This leads me into the second point of lag, which is the Titans and the use of direct player responses to limit blobs, and their lag. My advice to CPP is that this idea is not chosen in other MMOÆs because the power implied by a Titan as a siege unit of war must contain enough disadvantages to prevent it form becoming something other then its intended use. If I use the analogy of the sniper rifle of counterstrike I hope the point is not lost. At the moment, the defining feature which is ruining the utility of all other player attributes is both their effective mobility, and deployment speed. Warfare evolves through a series of instruments, counters and counter-maneuvers. At the moment, due to the mechanics of EvE, there is no rational mechanic which can overcome a titan. Their speed, maneuverability, and the lethal nature of the ship itself has no proper counter, which has been proven through the drastic change in ship fleet load outs and combat maneuvers since their introduction. This needs to be resolved now, before the player community invests further game savings (and personal objectives) into this broken mechanic. Nothing ruins subscriptions faster then revoking silent precedent. A litmus test would be to model EvE PVP or game enjoyment under the condition of 20 titans. The Titan itself is not a giffen good to help you start modeling.
Which leads me into my final two remarks, the nature and how æhands offÆ CPP wishes to become for the duration of EvE. You can take this as professional courtesy and genuine respect for your product, or offense but the game world at this moment has a foregone conclusion. As Tux et al have surmised the game of EvE revolves around the sandbox, not the story of whatever happens in empire. Perhaps it was intended the empires were to have a competing focus with the player driven content, but the optimal solution is not in establishing their relevance again as a factor of the PVP game. If you wish to add the empire wars as another game model wishing to replicate the 0.0 experience within empire and PVE opponents, this is fine but I believe your management team must make a choice. My professional recommendation is to focus on what your firm excels at, the sandbox pvp simulator and pursue optimizing that. One of the worst traps to fall into in the media industry is brand packaging (character modeling) and the æshiny baubleÆ syndrome. Your game is about ships, in space, war and the brutality of mankind in the impossibly fantastic future. I understand this is your first project as a private firm, but I feel since RmR the team has begun to either become distraught in the scope of EvE, or perhaps under whelmed by their market share, when compared to the reporting of peer firms.
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Mikhalio
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Posted - 2007.04.19 02:31:00 -
[70]
(and, part 3. Best regards Wrangler and Tux.)
The one thing to take into consideration for the further development of EvE is how your peers handle their personal investment into the product, and to what degree the company itself becomes involved in the project. Again, my recommendation is the EvE property is suffering from an empirical agency problem. This is not just a random musing, but a growing concern amongst potential subscribers and market observers. I voice this with the utmost respect (as implied by how long IÆve chosen to reply) but this is still the most dominant and largest question looming in the mind of analysts and players outside the EvE community bubble. The double edged nature of a private firm, seeking to reestablish market trust should be a forefront concern of CPP, more so if this team is continuing to promote their long term genre presence over any one marketing gimmick such as station walking. I do, as I started my letter with, endorse your earnest nature, which is why I am writing and in the best abstracts to assist your late cycle project.
I hope this adds value to the EvE development team, and management. The project is by far one of the industryÆs wunderkid stories. It would be a shame for the three weakest facets of EvE to remain unaddressed before the emergence of CPPÆs second MMO title, or attempts to finance its development.
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Uuve Savisaalo
Rage and Terror
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Posted - 2007.04.19 02:46:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kvarium Ki
Would it be possible to have an alternate "light" client? I don't care if all I'm seeing is some wire-frame cubes that represent ships.
my guess is a no? Seems like an insult to all of the artists who work on creating a visually-unique setting for this. If you wish to play text-based games, there are muds out there.
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
Low Grade Ore
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Posted - 2007.04.19 04:21:00 -
[72]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Babbette
Nothing about any drone "improvements". That makes me sad.
There are drone fixes and optimizations which are covered in general with "more focus on fixes and optimizations", I just covered the highligts in this blog. There are around 600 of such waiting for programmer love
I hope you didn't mean 600 problems with drones alone waiting to be fixed...
---
CCP : Save my mousewheel! |
Valator Uel
Caldari
Pax Minor Asylum
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.04.19 04:24:00 -
[73]
Woot an EVE-Voice Chat with the Devs! Good thing it doesn't work for some of us. Pity we don't get to download fleet op chats so we get to know what was said... .
For those of you wandering what I'm ranting about, it's the fact that CCP didn't even answer their honest questions in their very own announcement post of EVE-Voice.
I guess I'll have to wait a few months for the recording too.
*sigh*
*Walks away with his tinfoil hat*
-----------------------------------------------------
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Altar Mei
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 04:30:00 -
[74]
Originally by: KaptnSparrow
2nd finally lag gets some attentio...
If you've read the dev blogs for the last 2 years you would see they claim to be constantly fixing lag. So this time it must be true.
Originally by: CCP Arkanon
We're a company of professionals, not some LAN party gone bad.
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Shadow Lightbringer
Association Of United Bastards
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.04.19 04:41:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Shiraz Merlot
People usually say "that's it, I'm leaving." This is the opposite :)
Does that mean people should ask you if you want their stuff? 
Good to have some Dev Blogs rolling in, we had a little drought there. I am also interested in some of the planned changes to the server code that will allow smaller granularity, as I think that will be a significant improvement for EVE.
---
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Dufas
Amarr
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.04.19 05:23:00 -
[76]
..by the time i got to the end of that blog i realized he said alot about nothing but it was comming this summer
__________
cool sig comming soon |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.04.19 06:26:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Altar Mei
Originally by: KaptnSparrow
2nd finally lag gets some attentio...
If you've read the dev blogs for the last 2 years you would see they claim to be constantly fixing lag. So this time it must be true.
That was what I was feeling, but since they are working on a new client with rewritten network code, Im pretty happy anyway. I feel that thats exacly what they need to do to make the game fast again, because I suspect that frame rates has a lot do with the network code waiting for data before it updates the screen.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Tanya Kovacs
SteelVipers
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.04.19 06:58:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Tanya Kovacs on 19/04/2007 07:02:35
IRC > voice (for stuff like this)
--
Boost ECM on dedicated ships. Please.
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EscapeArtist
Caldari
Deviance Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.19 08:07:00 -
[79]
Dev Blogs are like busses I suppose...
You wait and wait and none come along, then all of a sudden, 3 at once, overall they paint a plesant picture for the coming weeks and this summer in particular.
Look forward to seeing those patch notes soon, and FYI, you may want to post about the scheduled patch on the news page so the masses know.
Roll on Rev 2.0, bring on the heat, bring on the pain!
------
I be a pirate, now give me all you isk, or IÆll plunder your booty with my big missle.
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Ravenowl
Caldari
Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2007.04.19 08:18:00 -
[80]
you want to fix lag? simple solution for you...
blow up Saila and Motsu. Or maybe just please for the love of no lag please move Caldari Navy agents. They are all to close together. Not as bad as say Interbus, but some. Or just one agent.. a certain level 4 quality 18 that just happens to be in the Caldari Navy and just happen to be in Motsu. Seriously the lag in Saila is absolutely insane. When it takes you longer to salvage and loot a mission then the actual mission, and its all due to lag, that is just to much. I absolutely refuse to work for the Caldari Navy now simply because of lag. So in summary make some event that blows up the entire area around Motsu, or move the agents around.
Please for the love of whomever , blow up the entire area. Even if its just a blackhole is discoveryed or something. That starts eating the entire system slowly due to much warping? Any reason is good enough for me, just please blow up the entire area.
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Horsefly
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.19 09:49:00 -
[81]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Real great dev blog.
You need to fix your super capitals.
Remote DD should go.
Someway to hold ships in place, or to make them risk the ship to fire off a dd.
Maybe no dd and cloak on at the same time.
Something done about cap issues on these things. Low cap usage on DD, insane recharge rates with expensive fittings.
Moms are solo pwnmobiles in low sec. I thought you were never going to introduce solo pwnmobiles.
Oh and fix the Minnie carrier, its been a year.
We're monitoring all the larger capital ships now that they are seeing far more usage. There is a lot happening in Starbases and Outpost which change the playing field considerably. On low sec specifically and moms, is it the ability to designate the fighters or are you actually seeing them in combat up close and personal?
Well we seem them right up and close. The current problem as I see them is we litterally have no way to stop them from leaving once we have taken down there support fleet. I mean bumping isnt really too reliable as a MOM can take down your bumper rather fast. I think we did the calculations and its just not very feasable to keep bumping the MOM with BS's in order to hold it down long enough that you can take it down.
Now for the whine part of my post. I just dont see a reason to allow ships that cant be damped, jammed, webbed, or scrambled into low sec when clearly it seems that the super-capital ships were really meant for 0.0 space play. The other option is to not allow the 20+ drones to come out and play. I mean if it could only be used for support for normal capitals like carriers and dreads then atleast you dont have to worry about an offensive ship that you have no realistic chance of stoping leaving once you have delt with the support ships.
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dodge2005
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.19 12:14:00 -
[82]
One of the main ways a fleet can seriosuly harm an oposing carrier fleet especially in low sec is to try and damp it and keep it scramed. I wouldnt mind so much if the motherships were used like old carriers were safe spot'd at pos's but they are being used in the front line and as they are scramable (due to no low sec bubules) it is risk free pvp. Implementing interdictor bubles could be an interesting soloution but this has a much wider impact on low sec.
I hate to use killboard links but
http://www.wearrsoyarr.com/killboard/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=1101
pages and pages of low sec kills and only one half decent atempt at killing it, and most of the time it goes arround solo.
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Grant Smith
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.04.19 12:24:00 -
[83]
We're currently having fun with the Establishment's Nyx, I wouldn't say its feared anymore than anyone fears a carrier, the issue is it's just a pain in the arse!
There is the Nyx, a few support carriers somewhere, and then lots and lots of recons and inty's with cynos fitted. They just roam around, find a target, drop a cyno, and more often than not the Nyx will jump in solo. Whys this? Because it has absolutely no fear of dieing because the chances of it dieing are slim to none.
It can take on fleets solo, kill just about everything in no time, and has the ability to just walk away when it sees fit.
Moms are being used on the front line more than any other capital. It's seriously outbalances in relation to everything else that occurs in low security space.
The solution that I personally see most viable is simply to restrict Mom's to 0.0 security space only. I don't believe removing its EW-invulnerabily is the way forward because if I were to pay 14b for a ship, i'd want a bonus of something of a rather spectacular nature also. Just having it in lowsec is sick though.
What can anyone do?!
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Otellus
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.04.19 12:38:00 -
[84]
Immunity to EW is the key here to the MS problem, ships should not be immune to anything.
My advice would be to give motherships the equivalent of something like 7 warpcore stabilizers (just like a blockade runner has 2 atm). That way it will be hard to pin down, but at least it becomes a possibility.
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Standard Deviation
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Posted - 2007.04.19 13:44:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Otellus
Immunity to EW is the key here to the MS problem, ships should not be immune to anything.
My advice would be to give motherships the equivalent of something like 7 warpcore stabilizers (just like a blockade runner has 2 atm). That way it will be hard to pin down, but at least it becomes a possibility.
even with 7 points on, it would just jump out.
I like the establishment guys and all, but the problem isnt that bad with just a few guys doing this in low sec. Its really annoying that they have an alpha class solo pwnmobile but its pretty rare to see it.
But in 6 months to a year these things are going to be a lot more common. And in low sec they are just bruttally over effective.
Infod are a solid pvp team, i believe them when they say that killing that nyx is nearly impossible.
We shouldnt have to rely on metagamming and stupid pilots to kill ships. We should have the tools to beat them in game.
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Oghma Grianainech
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.04.19 13:52:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Oghma Grianainech on 19/04/2007 13:52:59
Not whinning just some common sense observations.
Dear Dev team,
I posted my opinion about the suggestion to use pingplotter, Would be nice if someone from CCP technical or Dev team could reply to it :)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=508216&page=2#41
The article "anxiety is the dizziness of freedom - and lag?" was sorry to say quite disappointing again, in context what I understood is "We are doing something but that something is nothing you lads should know."
Granted it is hard to work on any decent project that requires a vast knowleadge of hardware technical knowhow and coding. Thou maybe CCP should take a different approach to gathering and releasing information, granting the DEV CHAT is a nice idea thou wonder how the crowd control will be like, imagine 398people asking questions all at the same time. Plus there are people with valid ideas and suggestions maybe not in the same timezone or that just cant get into the channel.
As a EVE subscriber, it is often I am sad at the proformance of the game or the way it is developing into. Granted there may be various and numberous logical reasons for any number of issues.
However lets take some small issues that are on alot of peoples minds, such as the warfare modules. Why was such a module invented/implemented if supposingly the gameserver/cluster couldnt handle a massive fleet battle in the first place?
What is being done to improve this matter? Will we ever see huge fleet battles of 1000players and up? if not what are the alternatives?
Inertia inconsistency, why has there always been a great inconsistency in ships turning in eve noticed by vast number of players? eg. it can take 1 sec to turn 180o sometimes 5secs to just turn 90o.
Overview lag spikes, the dreadful overview lag spikes... numberous ways have been tried numberous ways have failed.
New Gang/Fleet module.... ok it is nice thou it does clutter up the overview yet again, and opening more chat channels doesnt that just use even more resources on the server end?
I think the problem is not so much that the EVE community is a bunch of ungrateful SOBs but communication does play a great part, the EVE player base community is after all paying monthly subscriptions for a service of playing the game, granted this does not imply service has to great or prefect, but it does thou then raise a moral question of are we being treated like kids and ripped off or we will be treated like adults and being informed _properly and in "detail"_ of the problems and what is being done about them.
All said and done, lets forget about any past internal problems and rumours or scandals, how about CCP starts treating us like adults and give us some concrete semidetails which actually means something so the genral populus of eve can once again smile and be proud to fly the universe.
best regards.
PS. It is customary to reply to any written enquiry regarding business, job or game related subjects, this reflects how the company functions in gerenal regardless of country, nationality or race. Whatever those three things are.
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2007.04.19 14:17:00 -
[87]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
We're simply trying this voice chat out. I assume there will be a downloadable version later on (don't shoot me if I'm wrong) and I'll ask if that can happen. If it works well, we can have these more often in more timezones, I'm happy taking an early morning to accomodate other timezones.
What about a transcript? I can read faster than I can listen.
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Malcom Hash
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Posted - 2007.04.19 14:18:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Malcom Hash on 19/04/2007 14:15:17
What i don't understand at all is why the hell is there only one server whereas many in every other MMO?
Eve Galaxy is so vast i don't understand why a guy at the opposite of another dude in galaxy should be on the same server.
Why is it not possible to make an auto shift of the pilot data between different servers when taking a stargate?
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.04.19 14:34:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Malcom Hash
Edited by: Malcom Hash on 19/04/2007 14:15:17
What i don't understand at all is why the hell is there only one server whereas many in every other MMO?
Eve Galaxy is so vast i don't understand why a guy at the opposite of another dude in galaxy should be on the same server.
Why is it not possible to make an auto shift of the pilot data between different servers when taking a stargate?
.....
Eve is on what, 140 servers now? And not cheap ones either. CCP has divided the 5000ish starsystems in Eve in about 140 'clusters', with each cluster being on its own server. Size of clusters can vary, but for example Jita could very well be a cluster on its own, and CCP can shift clusters around when an area gets more crowded in order to spread the load out more evenly. The main problem arises when there are too many people in 1 system, CCP has not found a way yet to put a starsystem to use more than 1 server.
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raven415
Caldari
Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.19 15:28:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 18/04/2007 22:06:05
WOOT! I really hope you guys are serious about trying to fix things. Ships have been warping in sideways for so long I've started to think they are supposed to!
Good blog Oveur. I just hope you start busting heads and make it law.
leaving stations at an angle too
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raven415
Caldari
Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.04.19 15:29:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Pooka
Originally by: Emo Jelli
Nice ploy to get more of us to sign up for EVE Voice
I have 4 memebers in my corp.
Me, my self, me too and don't forget about me. I have NO use for Eve voice.
How about a broadcast on eve radio or something so the rest of us can hear!
Good point
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Velsharoon
Gallente
Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.04.19 15:47:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Mortamas
Originally by: Velsharoon
When will you deal with making people come into low sec (0.1-0.4). Actually make them worthwhile as opposed to places were nubs go to get blown up, or were agent runners **** themsleves in fear cos they might be killed jumping in.
Better rats/belts is whats needed, in conjunction with agents being put in low sec which is happening at somepoint i gather. High sec empire should be for nubs.
Running out of targets ? nice -9.9 standing to bad about that otherwise you could be in empire with privateers ganking legal like, or maybe not they do have standards
Running out of Brains? I live in 0.0. Its called making the game better. Thanks for giving a **** tho.
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Bartholomeus Crane
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Posted - 2007.04.19 17:52:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Babbette
Nothing about any drone "improvements". That makes me sad.
There are drone fixes and optimizations which are covered in general with "more focus on fixes and optimizations", I just covered the highligts in this blog. There are around 600 of such waiting for programmer love
I hope you didn't mean 600 problems with drones alone waiting to be fixed...
That sounds about right ...
Who's the drone guy you've hired to address these issues anyway? Wasn't it you who told us there would be someone especially for the drones issues?
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.04.19 18:11:00 -
[94]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
We're monitoring all the larger capital ships now that they are seeing far more usage. There is a lot happening in Starbases and Outpost which change the playing field considerably. On low sec specifically and moms, is it the ability to designate the fighters or are you actually seeing them in combat up close and personal?
I know you asked specifically about motherships, but the same problems carry over to titans. I'm not sure how actively you've been reading the threads about them, but including the posts from people in this thread (such as the opinions of members of INFOD), here are a few good points, though it's a lot of tooting my own horn (sorry about that):
The Fundamental Flaw with Doomsdays
The problem with the capacitor as the limiting factor for escape
Take the "Gently, Gently" approach to balance; realease small changes in a series with highest priority changes first.
Further reinforcement of overpowered nature of titans
Yet more reinforcement of problem with titan doomsdays
Severely unbalanced Doomsday tactics
On Cloaking Capitals
The issues with electronic warfare immunity
The redeeming, worthwhile, and ultimately balanced uses of a titan
The impracticality of one-shotting a titan using a max-recharge setup, as a demonstration
Other additions:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=464125&page=1#9
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=464125&page=3#81 and http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=464125&page=3#83
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=463802&page=1#26
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=507252&page=3#88
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500719&page=3#81
Basically, the outcome of titans after their initial design has gone totally overboard and needs immediate attention and fixes, if it already isn't being worked on. |
Bartholomeus Crane
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Posted - 2007.04.19 18:21:00 -
[95]
The point most people are missing about the blob-lag is that it is a problem you can not fix. If you fix it for a blob of 200 players, 250 will show up next. 250 done, 300 will show up next, etc. Even with a cluster of supercomputers, this non-deterministic polynomial complete problem can not be solved efficiently if the number of actors (n) is large enough. Whether you like it or not, there will always be a maximum size that the current technology can handle. Future technology will only move that upper limit, not eliminate it. There is no escape from the polynomial explosion.
The only solution lies in keeping n small enough. This means killing the blob, i.e. making sure that blobs over a certain size (where the lag become noticable) are not a good idea. Solutions like anti-blob weapons (area-of-effect weapons basically) have been mentioned (guess what the DD is). Personally I think this is a good idea, especially if it gives the 'stealth bomber' a niche (which has been suggested as well).
For those thinking about spreading the load over several CPUs. This might work to a certain extend in the new multi-CPU processors, but at one point you run into the situation where CPU load is nicely balanced (and adequate) by communication load between CPUs becomes the bottleneck. Even with highly advanced programming, this situation unavoidable.
So for those who want lag-free battles with thousands of pilots. Sorry, that's simply not possible at this time. There is ofcourse a corrolary to Moore's law, but apparently, even IBM nowadays think that 'the free lunch'-period is over. Remember, this is computer science, infinity is NaN.
Bartholomeus Crane has to admit his RL job involves doing research in this area. And yes, he has earned his title in it as well.
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Briana Flametop
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Posted - 2007.04.19 18:26:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Briana Flametop on 19/04/2007 18:22:30
More data for the devs, re: Titans (from this thread)
Quote:
[ TheRat ] 6750 (base cap regen) * 0.75 (eso V) * 0.64^5 (5 x 36%) * 0.67.5^8 (8 x 32.5% cap relay) * 0.8^2 (2 x 20% rigs) * 0.85 (1 x 15% rig) * 0.62.5 (avatar bonus) = ~7 seconds.
Is it intended that a Titan can regenerate its own capacitor from empty to full in approx. seven seconds? |
Hashi Lebwohl
Oberon Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.04.19 18:33:00 -
[97]
I assume that no factional warefare means no Kor-Azor Emperor either.......
How did Gnauton take it that he'd need to spin out the Amarr accession for yet another 12 months...Or are you just going to go out with a wimper (Gallante Elections anyone)
How about under promising and Ove(u)r achieving in future.
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Freaky One
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Posted - 2007.04.19 20:09:00 -
[98]
Well i spent about 30 sec's on the live dev blog channel.
Serveral problems
Total lack of moderation
Couldnt join eve voice , that was after hours trying to enable the trial.
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Templer Relleg
Exit 13
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Posted - 2007.04.20 05:21:00 -
[99]
I liked it.
We just need to have the people who spammed the channel realise how lame it is
But a limit on 400 players is no good.
I saw the channel peak at over 1100 people in channel!
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2007.04.20 07:04:00 -
[100]
i liked the dev chat aswell.
i do agree that the choosen medium for the "broadcast" doesnt work very well
and -even tho yet free- it rather seems a bit like a cheap way to promote eve-voice.
hower, i enabled it and joined the channel 3 hours early to secure my "slot", and it
worked out that way.
as for the moderation and spamming, i believe it was pretty obvious that it would
end like that and ppl would send their questions by evemail -which is the better
method anyways, since its harder for questions to be "overlooked" that way.
as for future dev chats, i believe switching back to irc may be the step everyone would
apploud to, tho i dont see that happening :)
hower,
great chat - thanks for answering all the questions.
i'll be there for the next one.
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Shadowsword
Kermit Space Industies
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Posted - 2007.04.20 08:03:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Heroldyn
i liked the dev chat aswell.
i do agree that the choosen medium for the "broadcast" doesnt work very well
and -even tho yet free- it rather seems a bit like a cheap way to promote eve-voice.
I feel a bit that way, too.
This dev chat left in the dust those who don't use eve-voice, as well as those who don't understand well spoken english. On top of that, it creates a longer delay between the dev chat and it's post as a written version on this forum.
I suggest that the next dev blogs be directly done with a text medium (IRC, gang channel, doesn't matter), it would be much better for the playerbase as a whole.
------------------------------------------
A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane. |
Drackx
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Posted - 2007.04.20 08:30:00 -
[102]
Well, it was a nice expierence, had some good questions answered, a good laugh with poor Hellmar receiving isk, an overall it was a good moral boost for playing Eve in the future.
And even if it's a way to promote Eve Voice then so be it, Eve Voice works very good, sound quality was very very good! It's a business at the end of the line or did you think Eve was an open source and free game!!
Pitty that those Banned spam A**holes tried to screw it up in the chat box (they didn't succeed :-))
Anyway I will do it again
Drackx
I'm walking ...
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Bartholomeus Crane
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Posted - 2007.04.20 08:57:00 -
[103]
I don't see why everyone is complaining about this!
First it's entirely free! It's not like you have to pay to listen to the dev chat! Not yet anyway.
Second, I'm quite sure that CCP meant nothing sinister about trying to use EVE-Voice. I quite positive that they just wanted to use a new and different medium and see how it would work out. A combination of a stress test and a ability test if you want.
And finally, all this shows CCPs interest in keeping in touch with the playerbase! Oveur, and eventually Helmar (the bloody CEO ffs!) took time out of his private life to do this! All just in order to talk to you guys. I mean, what other MMO company does this?
So there were some technical limitations, and ofcourse there are people who will try to ruin it for all involved. But it's still pretty amazing that CCP goes through these lengths.
I'm just sorry I was previously engaged.
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Heroldyn
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Posted - 2007.04.20 09:13:00 -
[104]
i dont see people complaining in the sense that its a bad idea to
do dev chats again. im pretty sure everybody is quite happy about
that decision, and that it was a great enjoyment for thoose involved.
however, a dev chat where only 400 people can take part in is pretty
limiting, and thats what people complain about. irc technology provided
a great and flawless way to held dev chats, and converting to eve-voice
seems like a step back in that sense. theres just no good reason to use
eve-voice for such things, and theres propably other ways to stress-test
eve-voice aswell.
but again, great ccp does it. much appreciated.
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Drackx
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Posted - 2007.04.20 09:19:00 -
[105]
FYI, the Eve Voice audio stop in Live Dev Chat yesterday, was well above 700 people :-)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.04.20 11:23:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Still Hart
Please fix the item stack bug ASAP!!! This is by far the most annoying bug I've seen in Eve in the 1.5 years I've been playing. This is almost as bad as the cloakers being locked when cloaked bug. Nearly as bad as the cyno/cloak bug. Unfortunately tho it gets me EVERY time I use Eve.
SH
That bug seem fairly peculiar, one of my corpmates is suffering from it constantly, I never encountered it.
He even described exactly to me how to generate it and I had no problems at all, and we were on at the same time and in the same system.
The only difference is that he live in the USA and I in Italy, but for all I know that shouldn't have any effect.
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EscapeArtist
Caldari
Deviance Inc
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Posted - 2007.04.20 13:52:00 -
[107]
Any idea when a recording of the session will be made avalible?
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General Xerxes
Delta Omega Iota Inc.
Breidablik
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Posted - 2007.04.20 15:16:00 -
[108]
Originally by: EscapeArtist
Any idea when a recording of the session will be made avalible?
Yeah, I got cut off in the middle of a really interesting bit from Hellmar and I wanna hear the rest!
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swoj
The New Order.
United Connection's
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Posted - 2007.04.20 16:05:00 -
[109]
Quote:
The most important question was however, "why are we trying to make only the Factional Warfare more interesting and fun? Why are we leaving all the player corporate Warfare behind?" The answer is of course obvious, we shouldn't be.
Does the question not now become "Why are we leaving all the non 0.0 players behind?"
Other than that, nice blog :)
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.04.20 17:24:00 -
[110]
We have listened to numerous requests from players asking for a corporation wide EVE Voice program. We are working on one and thought it only fair to extend the trial until it is in place. Stay tuned for more details as they become available.
Wrangler
Assistant Community Manager
EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base
Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ |
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Sieges
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Posted - 2007.04.21 06:06:00 -
[111]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Jak'ai
Edited by: Jak''ai on 18/04/2007 17:53:36
Can't say I'm wild about the Dev Chat thing as I happen to be one of those "other side of the planet"-type people who will be working during the announced time period.
Will these Dev Chat times be varied to cover other timezones? I mean - I could get away with having something up on IRC / messenger / etc, but for some reason my boss doesn't seem inclined to upgrade my workstation to something that will run EVE.
Post Blog-read edit
I have to echo Jim McG when I ask "where does the lag come from anyway?". I remember there was a dev blog way back where that addressed sources of lag, but I can't for the life of me figure out where it could be coming from in reality. The servers seem plenty fast enough (at least I don't see many de-synch events that I'd normally blame on the server), generally speaking the network doesn't seem a problem, so what is it client-side that lags things out?
The models are fairly simple, there isn't very much in the way of individual variation that needs to be rendered (at least compared to a standard avatar-based MMO), and the "landscape" is as simple as it gets. Colour me confused.
That aside - I've always wondered - is it technologically impossible to have a client communicate back to the server when recieving and rendering data? Sort of like the client saying "woah woah woah - I've got enough to deal with here" and the server responding with streaming a smaller "vital set" data load that would at least allow the player to continue playing in real-time rather than slide-showing while the client recieves all the information at once.
We're simply trying this voice chat out. I assume there will be a downloadable version later on (don't shoot me if I'm wrong) and I'll ask if that can happen. If it works well, we can have these more often in more timezones, I'm happy taking an early morning to accomodate other timezones.
Regarding LODing in the client, this will be handled better in the updated graphics engine but as you point out, that's nothing to do with the data stream. The data stream has also been worked on, and it's still sending mostly relevant data already (just check bandwidth usage of EVE, it's not that high).
Server lag is very visible on the client though and even though Jim points out the client isn't the sexy performing beast it was in the old days, this has more to do with the servers not being able to send out to 500 clients all the state updates of all the other 499 clients, Starbases etc. around you. This can then build up, meaning your client is actually waiting for very relevant data simply waiting in a holding pattern (you can't predict what button one of those 499 other players do). This can also happen on a solar system level and on node level, you don't have to be in a fleet battle. Just visit Saila.
Just put a copy of the voice chat out on a site like YouTube.com. I know it will be a voice only chat - not video, but that would be an easy place to put it.
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Vincent S
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Posted - 2007.04.21 08:22:00 -
[112]
Players: CCP, can you please have a look at titans? Look, here are a million valid arguments detailing how overpowered they are and how they suck all the fun out of playing your game!
CCP: EVE VOICE!!
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45thtiger 0109
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Posted - 2007.04.21 10:16:00 -
[113]
I do have an idea can CCP make a external chat client so you can chat with the corp members or the allience.When are at work or the computers you are using cannot run eve it would a better idea and the name i would use is EVE Chat, or get users to login to the web site and do it through the web site if CCP dont want to have an external chat client.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.04.21 10:18:00 -
[114]
Question : Do drones/fighters count as a ship for movement updates etc from the server ?
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Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.04.22 07:22:00 -
[115]
a dread locking a titan at 74 seconds is indeed a large point of concern. and the reverse appears to be even worse. a dread has a higher scan resolution than a titan, 55 dread, 45 titan. yet a dread takes 15 sensor clusters, and a titan takes 200. their size differences look like the difference between a cruiser and a battleship. i would assume that would provide a similar lock on time. or given the fact that they are capitol ships they should near instalock just due to the sheer amount of sensors that they should have.
Oh noes, the bastards! Keep on nerfing my EVE!
ccp lets put away the nerf bat (well except for say maybe titans having 8 second cap recharge and other gross misintentions) and bring out the lead pipe. lead pipe is good for 2 things, 1) hitting whiners, and 2) hitting a dev in the head hard enough that everything all of a sudden needs to be more awesome.
main example I hear some amarr players are using projectiles in pvp
uhhhh didnt the amarr enslave the minmatar for many years and the minmatar weapons are better? could someone please explain that to me.
so yes this amarr fix is of great interest would have liked to see something on that
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.04.22 20:34:00 -
[116]
Can we get some clarification on astroids "growing" ... will thigns return, eve wide, to the way they were before or is this something new?
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:50:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Edited by: Wrayeth on 19/04/2007 01:56:28
Originally by: Sonorra Baki
So this blog is actual proof that Tux was lying when he said more oomph for amarr.
Really? Doesn't that fall under "general fixes and improvements"?
P.S. Oveur, Tux, et. al. is there any chance we could see the fittings on the nighthawk loosened a bit as part of the general improvements? It's slightly short of CPU and massively short on powergrid. I have to run two RCU II's to fit a full rack of HAM launchers, large shield booster, cap injector, and the MWD to get close enough to use HAMs, and I still can't fill my 7th highslot with so much as a medium nos, much less a gang mod.
P.P.S. I have AWU 5.
Wait, Amarr are them religious guys in them golden ships, right?
I mailed the team, someone will do a general balancing blog, Amarr included.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:52:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Mikhalio
(and, part 3. Best regards Wrangler and Tux.)
The one thing to take into consideration for the further development of EvE is how your peers handle their personal investment into the product, and to what degree the company itself becomes involved in the project. Again, my recommendation is the EvE property is suffering from an empirical agency problem. This is not just a random musing, but a growing concern amongst potential subscribers and market observers. I voice this with the utmost respect (as implied by how long IÆve chosen to reply) but this is still the most dominant and largest question looming in the mind of analysts and players outside the EvE community bubble. The double edged nature of a private firm, seeking to reestablish market trust should be a forefront concern of CPP, more so if this team is continuing to promote their long term genre presence over any one marketing gimmick such as station walking. I do, as I started my letter with, endorse your earnest nature, which is why I am writing and in the best abstracts to assist your late cycle project.
I hope this adds value to the EvE development team, and management. The project is by far one of the industryÆs wunderkid stories. It would be a shame for the three weakest facets of EvE to remain unaddressed before the emergence of CPPÆs second MMO title, or attempts to finance its development.
Awesome points. Thank you.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 08:57:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Horsefly
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Standard Deviation
Real great dev blog.
You need to fix your super capitals.
Remote DD should go.
Someway to hold ships in place, or to make them risk the ship to fire off a dd.
Maybe no dd and cloak on at the same time.
Something done about cap issues on these things. Low cap usage on DD, insane recharge rates with expensive fittings.
Moms are solo pwnmobiles in low sec. I thought you were never going to introduce solo pwnmobiles.
Oh and fix the Minnie carrier, its been a year.
We're monitoring all the larger capital ships now that they are seeing far more usage. There is a lot happening in Starbases and Outpost which change the playing field considerably. On low sec specifically and moms, is it the ability to designate the fighters or are you actually seeing them in combat up close and personal?
Well we seem them right up and close. The current problem as I see them is we litterally have no way to stop them from leaving once we have taken down there support fleet. I mean bumping isnt really too reliable as a MOM can take down your bumper rather fast. I think we did the calculations and its just not very feasable to keep bumping the MOM with BS's in order to hold it down long enough that you can take it down.
Now for the whine part of my post. I just dont see a reason to allow ships that cant be damped, jammed, webbed, or scrambled into low sec when clearly it seems that the super-capital ships were really meant for 0.0 space play. The other option is to not allow the 20+ drones to come out and play. I mean if it could only be used for support for normal capitals like carriers and dreads then atleast you dont have to worry about an offensive ship that you have no realistic chance of stoping leaving once you have delt with the support ships.
Which is amongst the things we're discussing. I'd say that the supercap in low-sec is only part of the problem, low-sec in general needs better differentiation. Yet this isn't the only issues that we're looking at with caps in general.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 09:04:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Oghma Grianainech
Lots
I wouldn't worry about dev chats in general, we've been doing them for years. The voice version is new and the participants aren't asking questions directly, it's moderated.
You don't need 1000 players to utilize gang modules, it's quite beneficial for smaller teams. As mentioned earlier here, our core technology developments over the next year are focusing on the scalability of the solar system grains and client/server performance.
And with details, as I stated in the blogs, I do the high level, being the high level executive in charge, the guys actually working on the individual things and know them in detail will cover the details
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 09:09:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Bein Glorious
Edited by: Bein Glorious on 21/04/2007 15:08:27
Originally by: CCP Oveur
We're monitoring all the larger capital ships now that they are seeing far more usage. There is a lot happening in Starbases and Outpost which change the playing field considerably. On low sec specifically and moms, is it the ability to designate the fighters or are you actually seeing them in combat up close and personal?
I know you asked specifically about motherships, but the same problems carry over to titans. I'm not sure how actively you've been reading the threads about them, but including the posts from people in this thread (such as the opinions of members of INFOD), here are a few good points, though it's a lot of tooting my own horn (sorry about that):
The Fundamental Flaw with Doomsdays
The problem with the capacitor as the limiting factor for escape
Take the "Gently, Gently" approach to balance; release small changes in a series with highest priority changes first.
Further reinforcement of overpowered nature of titans
Yet more reinforcement of problem with titan doomsdays
Severely unbalanced Doomsday tactics
On Cloaking Capitals
The issues with electronic warfare immunity
The redeeming, worthwhile, and ultimately balanced uses of a titan
The impracticality of one-shotting a titan using a max-recharge setup, as a demonstration
Other additions:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=464125&page=1#9
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=464125&page=3#81 and http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=464125&page=3#83
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=463802&page=1#26
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=507252&page=3#88
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500719&page=3#81
Basically, the outcome of titans after their initial design has gone totally overboard and needs immediate attention and fixes, if it already isn't being worked on.
edit: fixed typo
Hey, cool link summary, thanks! Not often someone makes my life easier on the forums
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 09:13:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
The point most people are missing about the blob-lag is that it is a problem you can not fix. If you fix it for a blob of 200 players, 250 will show up next. 250 done, 300 will show up next, etc. Even with a cluster of supercomputers, this non-deterministic polynomial complete problem can not be solved efficiently if the number of actors (n) is large enough. Whether you like it or not, there will always be a maximum size that the current technology can handle. Future technology will only move that upper limit, not eliminate it. There is no escape from the polynomial explosion.
The only solution lies in keeping n small enough. This means killing the blob, i.e. making sure that blobs over a certain size (where the lag become noticable) are not a good idea. Solutions like anti-blob weapons (area-of-effect weapons basically) have been mentioned (guess what the DD is). Personally I think this is a good idea, especially if it gives the 'stealth bomber' a niche (which has been suggested as well).
For those thinking about spreading the load over several CPUs. This might work to a certain extend in the new multi-CPU processors, but at one point you run into the situation where CPU load is nicely balanced (and adequate) by communication load between CPUs becomes the bottleneck. Even with highly advanced programming, this situation unavoidable.
So for those who want lag-free battles with thousands of pilots. Sorry, that's simply not possible at this time. There is ofcourse a corrolary to Moore's law, but apparently, even IBM nowadays think that 'the free lunch'-period is over. Remember, this is computer science, infinity is NaN.
Bartholomeus Crane has to admit his RL job involves doing research in this area. And yes, he has earned his title in it as well.
You are so spot on it's not even funny.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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CCP Oveur
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Posted - 2007.04.23 09:31:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Heroldyn
i liked the dev chat aswell.
i do agree that the choosen medium for the "broadcast" doesnt work very well
and -even tho yet free- it rather seems a bit like a cheap way to promote eve-voice.
I feel a bit that way, too.
This dev chat left in the dust those who don't use eve-voice, as well as those who don't understand well spoken english. On top of that, it creates a longer delay between the dev chat and it's post as a written version on this forum.
I suggest that the next dev blogs be directly done with a text medium (IRC, gang channel, doesn't matter), it would be much better for the playerbase as a whole.
We've done the text chats, interviews and such quite often and will continue to do so. We're just trying to find a good mix between them all.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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Drackx
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Posted - 2007.04.23 09:33:00 -
[124]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Mikhalio
(and, part 3. Best regards Wrangler and Tux.)
I hope this adds value to the EvE development team, and management. The project is by far one of the industryÆs wunderkid stories. It would be a shame for the three weakest facets of EvE to remain unaddressed before the emergence of CPPÆs second MMO title, or attempts to finance its development.
Will this be an Eve related title?
Tx
Drackx
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FireFoxx80
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.04.23 10:28:00 -
[125]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
The point most people are missing about the blob-lag is that it is a problem you can not fix. If you fix it for a blob of 200 players, 250 will show up next. 250 done, 300 will show up next, etc.
...
The only solution lies in keeping n small enough. This means killing the blob, i.e. making sure that blobs over a certain size (where the lag become noticable) are not a good idea. Solutions like anti-blob weapons (area-of-effect weapons basically) have been mentioned (guess what the DD is). Personally I think this is a good idea, especially if it gives the 'stealth bomber' a niche (which has been suggested as well).
You are so spot on it's not even funny.
Of course the alternative here is to not make blobs a bad thing (through doomsday devices and other video nasties), but to make small gangs better.
To this extent, I'd like to see logistics given some love. How about area-of-effect logistics modules, where it benefits the blob to be small (1/n type bonus applied to ships within effect). Effects similar to the targeted logistics modules, so shield, armour, sensor, tracking, etc; but applied to all ships within the area-of-effect.
Chuck in some limiting factors; such as only one field in effect at any one time, and something to keep the logistics ship [fairly] immobile when creating the field.
Actually, this is a nice idea for Tech2 Tier2 BattleCruisers...
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Mantees
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.04.23 12:39:00 -
[126]
The blog talks about more complexes, but doesn't say anything about exploration being such a catassing activity?
Click on the analyze button once every 108seconds for more than an hour is "working as intended"?
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OGRank.com - EVE Online - MMORPG News |
Siri Blue
Gallente
Neo-Tek
SynchronizerZ
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Posted - 2007.04.24 13:28:00 -
[127]
All the new missions I've seen have at least the same number of ships or even MORE ships than the older missions, what happened to "replace 10 ships with 1 stronger" in the need for speed initiative????
And my question for the last 10 months:
When will you finally give some loving to non-combat missions as has been promised when you screwed them up with Dragon Code? All we got are a handfull patchwork missions. And please remove this specific item crap again, when you get blown up with the mission content, give us a chance to buy replacements.
All in all I'm pretty disappointed, you announce a lot, then partially retract it piece by piecy...
And in the end...
It feels like there is no movement at all, cause all thats really changing is gonna be some graphics. 
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Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.04.26 12:30:00 -
[128]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
You don't need 1000 players to utilize gang modules, it's quite beneficial for smaller teams.
Hmmm....
How about giving gang modules some sort of stacking penalty when affecting too many gang members and a bonus when affecting a certain optimum?
Like:
2 members -> just like now
10 members -> optimum
40 members -> just like now
80 members -> bad
120+ members -> very bad
...
Amarr racial trait: Nerfbat damage resistance 0% |
Macmuelli
Gallente
Gallente Mercantile Exchange
Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.04.27 21:58:00 -
[129]
well got some questions too.
"extracting stuff from corpse pa example" : i like quafe but is there a chance categorise corps into qualtys?
upon the skillpoints and implant it has to extract better quality dna?
u coud use it to invent new empire tech II implants if this will be ever planned.
just an idea better then only making quafe out of it and makes corpse collecting much more interesting.
Will be the industrial part getting more features in future?
Like bonuses ( producing time reducing etc..)in the station where the work and refine and building stuff perhaps combine with Missions( like getting certifactes they can use)?.
About the "heat":
will it take also effect to Poses? like your guns getting overloaded?
another question about poses:
Is there a chance in future pressing all the Moduls u can anchor into Batteries u can fit with weapons etc?
(Perhaps adding hangars where u can place stuff reducing the "heat")
To reduce objects in solarsystems?
Woud it take effect to reducing the lag?
A question about Learning in Eve in future:
We have so many skills we want to learn but so less time ^^
will u add more Ways to learn faster?
pa example a skill based medical upgrade?
pa examle if u push up learning a rank 1 skill and it is finished your brain need 1 week to regenerise before u can try it again to push up a skill?
If u do this "push up" u get a temporary minus to another attribute?
perhaps u can answer some questions
best regs
mac
Whats a human without dreams?.....
DEATH
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
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Gner Dechast
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.04.30 11:05:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Fedacorr
Will this 'we're working on lag' be the one where you FINALLY admit the hundreds of unused/signage only cans in asteroid fields and around gates need to GO?
Or will you flatly refuse to take note, much less fix, this ongoing problem?
Can't say that I wouldn't have been expecting something for this for better part of 2 years or so...
What I would like to see is kind of "Space Degration" where all unpowered objects in space would suffer, let's say 1% damage per day (hence removing objects over that are in space for more than 100 days)
This would not effect powered (shielded) objects such as POS'es etc (nor ships within POS'es protective shield). It would affect abandoned ships in space, those irritating secure canisters etc.
What would that mean for secure can mining? At the worst it would mean either unanchoring the canister and taking it back to the station for repair, or remote reppairing it once in a blue moon. Hardly a major problem.
I would LOVE to see all abandoned shuttles, rookie ships and canister eventually get removed. Something like this can't be beyond resonable effort to create...
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Sjoep enLai
Azure Horizon
Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.05.02 11:52:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: CCP Oveur
You don't need 1000 players to utilize gang modules, it's quite beneficial for smaller teams.
Hmmm....
How about giving gang modules some sort of stacking penalty when affecting too many gang members and a bonus when affecting a certain optimum?
Like:
2 members -> just like now
10 members -> optimum
40 members -> just like now
80 members -> bad
120+ members -> very bad
...
That will only shift the problem. Instead of having one Blob 0f 200 players, you'll end up with 10 gangs of 20 people in system.
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Dutschetss Vilhelmena
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Posted - 2007.05.05 17:17:00 -
[132]
Back in early 2004 I fell in love with the version of this game that was being played then. I have been playing for three years solid. Every time you guys have patched the game, you have made the game far less enjoyable, and fixed some minor bugs at the expense of removing the best parts of the game.
Now I imagine that if I were a drunk programmer removing, say, gang attributes that make every one's skills matter and replaceing with gang attributes that make hardly anyone's skill matter, is easier that actually analyzing the problem and fixing it.
Sure, some players are loading BS'es with nanos and are moving too fast to hit? Fixing that is too hard, so we're going to just nerf the module. What you did not care to notice is that stacking nanos was a great way to protect a hauler. "Players like nanos, but screw them, we gotta go drinking now."
When you guys have a problem to solve, try actually solving the real issue, do not just cover it over by nerfing the game.
I would pay to play the game you provided in 2004, but the game you are selling today is no where as exciting, fun, or enjoyable, as the game you had then, bugs and all.
I will not be renewing my subscription, and your investors deserve to know why.
Frankly, I hope there is an organization out there with the brains and vision to make a better game, one worthy of our money every month. I would love to play a space-based game, if it were fun.
Its a shame too, this game was close to perfect, then you nerfed it.
Its OK, I can nerf things too, like my monthly payments to CCP. |
Grimbly
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Posted - 2007.05.05 19:31:00 -
[133]
As a gereral rule i try and avoid the forums beacause for the most part all anybody does is whine and complain and it makes me sick. For those of you who do not thanks. For those of you who do, you should be booted from the game . CCP you guys are fantastic i love the game and everything you add to it, excellent work guys, keep it up. You should be comended for your work and efforts, not plagued by whining. Thanks again.
As a side note: This is a totally unprovoked post. If you fit into the stated categories sorry and/or congrats. Just wanted to get that off my chest. Have a nice day
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.10 23:07:00 -
[134]
Originally by: CCP Oveur
Hey, cool link summary, thanks! Not often someone makes my life easier on the forums
Hey if you want some more stuff to read check this out:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518418
just sayin' bro  |
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