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[March] Balance Tweaks: Focused Warp Scrambling Script

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Lucy Callagan TURN LEFT 221	Posted - 2017.02.23 17:55:00 - [121] - Quote Jack Barros wrote: l0rd carlos wrote: Fleshgrind wrote: Nobody in my inner Ever circle of friends were calling for this or complained how overpowered it was. Where did the need for this change come from? If this was a push by the CSM it has misrepresented the community in my opinion. Your circle of friends is not the whole community ;-) TURN LEFT show us on the doll where the HIC touched you. Points at MWD legion taking dust in hangar for months
Ted McManfist GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 132	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:03:10 - [122] - Quote Mizhir wrote: I see alot of people talking about the Mordus Legion ships. If they are the problem then the sensible thing is to nerf them rather than have a class of ship that counters a wide array of ships. Ted McManfist wrote: Mizhir wrote: Hans Downherpantz wrote: brawling dies again People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps. People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob. It is pretty much the same thing. People don't want to waste their ship on a fight they got no chance of winning. I disagree. I think it's more "People don't want even the slimmest chance of losing."
Mizhir TURN LEFT 74882	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:06:03 - [123] - Quote Ted McManfist wrote: Mizhir wrote: I see alot of people talking about the Mordus Legion ships. If they are the problem then the sensible thing is to nerf them rather than have a class of ship that counters a wide array of ships. Ted McManfist wrote: Mizhir wrote: Hans Downherpantz wrote: brawling dies again People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps. People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob. It is pretty much the same thing. People don't want to waste their ship on a fight they got no chance of winning. I disagree. I think it's more "People don't want even the slimmest chance of losing." Says the guy from the alliance known for bringing superior numbers to everything. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
Patty Loveless The Northern Navy Shipyard Fidelas Constans 14	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:11:42 - [124] - Quote lanyaie wrote: Nice, although please leave HIC points to scram supers without the script. (Looking at you hels) Quote: TinkerHell ?????? MY ******* FIEND nano snake revenant ftw
Mira Chieve Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots 24	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:11:57 - [125] - Quote Ted McManfist wrote: Mizhir wrote: I see alot of people talking about the Mordus Legion ships. If they are the problem then the sensible thing is to nerf them rather than have a class of ship that counters a wide array of ships. Ted McManfist wrote: Mizhir wrote: Hans Downherpantz wrote: brawling dies again People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps. People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob. It is pretty much the same thing. People don't want to waste their ship on a fight they got no chance of winning. I disagree. I think it's more "People don't want even the slimmest chance of losing." 94 percent gangs. Ok you know what you are on about. I think you should go back to your Sanctum, the next wave seems to have spawned.
Timm3h Oruze Cruise White Stag Exit Bag 103	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:17:00 - [126] - Quote Suitonia wrote: Timm3h wrote: tips orthrus M' gameplay Unironically HIC scrams just made Orthrus' much more prolific, because it's one of the few kiting ships that can project outside HIC Scram range while also tackling ships outside HIC scram range. What HICs killed was solo brawling with MJDs entirely, cheap, affordable or accessible kiting ships (RIP anyone trying to just take out a nano thorax, cane or stabber etc.). Flying 100mn stuff + needing a Keres to even undock if you want to do non Orthrus stuff is getting boring. Instead of thinking of counters to the problem that is the HIC no-fly-zone, it's just a matter of picking the better ship (which in this case is the orthrus) to deal more dps that applies better, at longer range, with longer ranged warp disruption and more maneuverability. The statement here isn't that the orthrus becomes more prolific, it's that the orthrus REMAINS the stronger choice and that they're shuffling relatively minor issues around instead of dealing with the ship that was (and has been for quite a while) the first choice to begin with. Regular scrams also kill solo MJD brawling, and there are several equally-fearsome things to a t1 nano cruiser/bc like the orthrus, rapier, huginn, arazu, lachesis, keres, any ship bonused for ECM, or any longer-ranged ship that can force you off grid with zero effort. People don't like the HIC because it is a tool to force content to stay localized, pulling the control of tempo and positioning away from the same dull kite garbage that we've seen for years now. Instead of using existing ships and modules to create fits to work against this utility granted from HIC scrams, people just complain until they get their return to the status quo. tips orthrus
Hirien Frozen DD 1	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:17:19 - [127] - Quote TinkerHell wrote: Good. RIP HICs. Long live Gallente Recons actually being able to do their job again. (role bonus for scram range on fiend plzplzplzpzlpzlpzlzplzplzz) Imho the AT ships should always keep their bonuses when they are released...
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues Hookers N' Blow 26	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:17:35 - [128] - Quote exiik Shardani wrote: omg why? HICs r pretty expensive and only chance how to point these annoying kite plague around and it is nerfed :-( Kiting isnt a plague, blobbing is a plague. Kiting exists because 10 Ships gang up on 2 ships. Then the 10 dudes complain that the guys ran. WTF do you expect? What would you do? Constantly in this game people complain about **** they do themselves, you blob someone post it on reddit, then you get blobbed and you call people dirty blobbers. Someone runs you make fun of them for running they come back and counter blob you with a bigger blob and you turn around and run. Its a game stop complaining so much jesus man, everyone are such huge hipocrits. Waaaaa 1 dude wont let me blob him with 10 guys its not fair waaaa. He is actually a good pilot and has implants nerf him nerf him. I bet you complained about the bubble decay changes too. How about you fight them on even terms and then they wont run. Well done CCP on your recent announcements on changes. TY for your hard work, not all your changes will be perfect but progress is progress.
CraftyCroc The Keyboard Warriors 239	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:24:13 - [129] - Quote Hilarious the tears from the individuals who fly in 100+ man fleets over this. You have the numbers to field more stiletto's so just fix up. Maybe now the dev's will fix this awful "booshing mechanic". The name itself is absurd -something thought up by generation snowflake no doubt.
big miker Syndicate Enterprise Northern Coalition. 491	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:24:22 - [130] - Quote YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!1!!11!1!!!1!!!!1!!!!!1!!1 Latest video: Ferocious 9.0 - Vertical Supremacy Nano Naglfar!

CraftyCroc The Keyboard Warriors 240	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:27:32 - [131] - Quote Ted McManfist wrote: Mizhir wrote: I see alot of people talking about the Mordus Legion ships. If they are the problem then the sensible thing is to nerf them rather than have a class of ship that counters a wide array of ships. Ted McManfist wrote: Mizhir wrote: Hans Downherpantz wrote: brawling dies again People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps. People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob. It is pretty much the same thing. People don't want to waste their ship on a fight they got no chance of winning. I disagree. I think it's more "People don't want even the slimmest chance of losing." Ummmm... I'll take a fight if i have a 5% chance of winning. I'm not fussed about losing a ship nor am i fussed about efficiency. I prefer piloting my own ship then flying in the blob. A 30KM scram gives me no options to nano. 0% chance of winning.
l0rd carlos TURN LEFT 1313	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:37:52 - [132] - Quote Trajan Unknown wrote: - HICs are an essential tool in close to midrange fleet compositions when fighting longer ranged compositions. - HICs are an essential tool to shut down certain ships/compositions which are able to project pretty well against the common tackler like rapid lights, tracking bonused cruisers and alike. - HICs allow small fleets to shut down a certain part of the grid against stuff that would kite them all the time. Still possible of course and by no means a hard counter. - HICs by themself can be countered super easily, they need force multiplier to become really nasty. Sounds like something that will still be possible after the change. Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
sharpscg Shiva Northern Coalition. 19	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:52:58 - [133] - Quote I oppose this change. I think the long rage HIC points have been fine, especially considering that the remainder of that ship is utterly useless in small gang. HICs are slow and have low dps, which was been a good trade off for the unique long scram. I'm sad to see the HIC return to irrelevance for all but lowsec super hunting and I guess bullshit remote sebo gatecamps, as you intentionally left the scram range at a level perfect for this activity.
Alexhandr Shkarov Swamphole Inc. 59	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:57:52 - [134] - Quote Ted McManfist wrote: Mizhir wrote: Hans Downherpantz wrote: brawling dies again People kite because they don't want to get blobbed to oblivion. It allows them to disengage when the enemy throws a couple of caps after a handful of subcaps. People kite because they are risk averse, not because they fear the blob. I am learning to kite as brawler because there's literally no point brawling in anything but ganks anymore. Any fight that's small-ish results in your brawl comp being outran, or else so deep into the fight that strategic repositioning and other techniques no longer work. Dumb change, now it's even easier to be a little obnoxious ****. All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.
Ugly Eric Fistful of Finns WE FORM V0LTA 127	Posted - 2017.02.23 18:58:25 - [135] - Quote one thing ppl seem to have missed completely is the usage of hics as a antitackle platform. Especially the onyx and the devoter. Those two ships have been practically untackleable with frigs heretills. When the devoter with pulses or a onyx with rapid lights gets tackled by a frig, the frig has not had the slightest chanche of survival, unless bunch of logi keeping them alive. Another point that has been almost completely dismissed here is the fact, that HIC's dont need to sacrifice anything else for the 40km scram, as it is a highslot module, whitch they all have a utility high for. Arazus, huginns etc. other controlplatforms all haveto sacrifice midslots for tackle. That has and will be a HUGE advantage for hics, even without 40km, but 21km scram. And pls stop saying RIP HIC's, as this change in my mind still keeps them as very valid ship, but not having a completely unfair advantage to them. 21km scram is still very powerfull tool. Not to forget their 40km disruptor. After these changes the HIC gets way more diversity, as it has 2 different scripts and a bubble. And piloting one is needing even more tactical understanding that it has now, as the slow cycletime combined with 2 very different script effects. While at HIC's, the broadsword and the Phobos could use some small love to be as viable and multiusable platforms as the devoter and the onyx. I still and once more really do like this change!
Trajan Unknown SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 121	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:07:20 - [136] - Quote l0rd carlos wrote: Trajan Unknown wrote: - HICs are an essential tool in close to midrange fleet compositions when fighting longer ranged compositions. - HICs are an essential tool to shut down certain ships/compositions which are able to project pretty well against the common tackler like rapid lights, tracking bonused cruisers and alike. - HICs allow small fleets to shut down a certain part of the grid against stuff that would kite them all the time. Still possible of course and by no means a hard counter. - HICs by themself can be countered super easily, they need force multiplier to become really nasty. Sounds like something that will still be possible after the change. No, it-¦s not possible anymore. The reason a HIC has a slight chance in surviving the current mid to large fleet meta is the range of the scram and that the fucker actually scrams. Bringing the HIC closer to the hostile fleet means you have to pull your logi closer, your dps closer or let the HIC be the loner in front of the fleet. Removing the scram means you can-¦t shut down individual ships and focus them down. Inties are nice for that role as well but simply not useable against certain fleets. Same for recons. You need that stupid tank to survive in the first place or well, have a chance to survive. Regarding small gang/solo stuff. Once more people start leaving "team:retard" and use way nastier stuff than a HIC in their small gangs we will see the same people cry all over again. Ewar in general is the most annoying thing - I personally experienced - in small gang encounters. Even mid seized fleets with unbonused ewar are super nasty. It-¦s just that people are lazy and the lazy option is a HIC but let-¦s be a bit logical here for a moment. A slow, 700mil plus ISK HIC with moderate range/application is no good option vs ewar recons or Mordus ships. If you want to brawl yeah, the HIC might be your choice but if you want to brawl and bring some ewar on top of it and mix it up it will multiply your force by a lot. I guess most of us know how nasty certain recons or even frigs can be when you-¦re engaged in a brawl and they appear on grid.
UAxLIFE Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:11:01 - [137] - Quote Know your role hictor pilot: apply project.mayhem, set destination Tama.
Captain jdd SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA 2	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:11:59 - [138] - Quote Good change, CCP. HIC were really idiots (and too easy to kite with).
Emmy Mnemonic Svea Rike Circle-Of-Two 56	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:13:46 - [139] - Quote CCP, why are you fixing a problem that didn't exist for the broad masses of EVE players in the first place? Even for most small-scale pvp:ers, there has never been any problems with HICs beeing to oppressive or overpowered? Where on earth did you get that info from?! I strongly disagree with this change. It is not needed, especially not due to the reason you say! Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]
Captain jdd SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA 2	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:16:42 - [140] - Quote Emmy Mnemonic wrote: CCP, why are you fixing a problem that didn't exist for the broad masses of EVE players in the first place? Even for most small-scale pvp:ers, there has never been any problems with HICs beeing to oppressive or overpowered? Where on earth did you get that info from?! I strongly disagree with this change. It is not needed, especially not due to the reason you say! https://puu.sh/ugFB5/955cc917b2.png

Meiqur Orez Trillium Invariant Honorable Third Party 4	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:18:17 - [141] - Quote Oh dear, Mark me down as a strong opponent to the change as marked here as a small gang kitey duder and pretty regular hic pilot. So first some comparison Lachesis with TS scram AND TS Point: acceptably fast Cost: 410m isk (just points and hull) 22.5k scram 27k overheated scram before links 30k scram with links 35.5k scram with links and overheat Can take RR Orthrus with TS Scram + TS Point Zippy Cost 430 (just points and hull) 16.9k scram 20.3 scram hot 22.7k scram with links 26.6k scram with links and heat Can take RR HIC: Slow as ** will scram to 21 with TS focus point Cannot take RR somewhat tanky So a couple problems here, first the orthrus and especially lach should easily be able to outperform a hic while maintaining the ability to take RR and are considerably faster and more agile. Also a defensive scram on your orthrus almost certainly means the hic has no means to actually hold you down. Additionally hics are the only viable way for a small group to counter web ships like vindicators and bhaalgorns without getting roflstomped. Well no more with these changed the over heated TS web will very nearly reach all the way out to the edge of scram range from your hic. The hic agility is so low that the narrow window of "hold him down and not tackled back" basically means any hic pilot trying to maintain range is going to have a very rough time. Anyway to sum up, rip hics, and this change is ******. Hyde your a dumbass.
Klaus vonKlauzwitz Jump Drive Appreciation Society Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance 0	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:30:41 - [142] - Quote I would like to see some extra speed and better capacitor on the hulls, especially as they'll have to be in heavy neut range to shut down MJDs. Also, not being able to warp over 150AU from full cap is just pathetic, and very painful in Thera.
Indy GosHawk Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:33:34 - [143] - Quote I'm Probably not the first to think or say this, CCP Devs, please can you fix the actual broken things in the game, rather than screw with the things that DON'T NEED FIXING. This has Ridiculous ammounts of implications for a larger population of EVE than the nano-faggotry risk-averse Low Sec leet-pee vee pee'ers. Stop focusing on the whines of Fozzie's Butt Buddies and fix the real issues. If you really really want to fix a ship, look at the 70km+ point on the Arazu, or the retardation of the Orthrus.
Captain jdd SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA 3	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:35:30 - [144] - Quote Indy GosHawk wrote: I'm Probably not the first to think or say this, CCP Devs, please can you fix the actual broken things in the game, rather than screw with the things that DON'T NEED FIXING. This has Ridiculous ammounts of implications for a larger population of EVE than the nano-faggotry risk-averse Low Sec leet-pee vee pee'ers. Stop focusing on the whines of Fozzie's Butt Buddies and fix the real issues. If you really really want to fix a ship, look at the 70km+ point on the Arazu, or the retardation of the Orthrus. Or carriers nah ?
Kagi Anzomi CK-0FF Spaceship Samurai 3	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:37:46 - [145] - Quote Captain jdd wrote: Indy GosHawk wrote: I'm Probably not the first to think or say this, CCP Devs, please can you fix the actual broken things in the game, rather than screw with the things that DON'T NEED FIXING. This has Ridiculous ammounts of implications for a larger population of EVE than the nano-faggotry risk-averse Low Sec leet-pee vee pee'ers. Stop focusing on the whines of Fozzie's Butt Buddies and fix the real issues. If you really really want to fix a ship, look at the 70km+ point on the Arazu, or the retardation of the Orthrus. Or carriers nah ? What's wrong with carriers now?
Captain jdd SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA 4	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:42:30 - [146] - Quote Should I really explain ? Lel.
Indy GosHawk Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:46:22 - [147] - Quote Captain jdd wrote: Should I really explain ? Lel. .....Yes?
Captain jdd SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA 4	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:48:08 - [148] - Quote http://indonesiaglory.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/how-brain-works-with-memory-for-kids-full.jpg
Mira Chieve Know your Role League of Unaligned Master Pilots 24	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:51:50 - [149] - Quote Indy GosHawk wrote: I'm Probably not the first to think or say this, CCP Devs, please can you fix the actual broken things in the game, rather than screw with the things that DON'T NEED FIXING. This has Ridiculous ammounts of implications for a larger population of EVE than the nano-faggotry risk-averse Low Sec leet-pee vee pee'ers. Stop focusing on the whines of Fozzie's Butt Buddies and fix the real issues. If you really really want to fix a ship, look at the 70km+ point on the Arazu, or the retardation of the Orthrus. WAAAAAAAAH Why should CCP always cater for the nullsec babies? Also, lol at people calling HICs slow. But I suppose you are only used to overtanked ab fleet HICs. You are right here - those failfits aren-¦t a threat to any competent kiter. But maybe some people actually have a brain and fly mwd nano linked and snaked hics that go 2,5 km/s cold. Put a 40km scram on those and voila, instant win. Those are the truly oppressive HICs. Not that blob fleet bullshit.
Ebag Trescientas Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2017.02.23 19:52:40 - [150] - Quote Meiqur Orez wrote: So first some comparison Lachesis with TS scram AND TS Point: acceptably fast Cost: 410m isk (just points and hull) 22.5k scram 27k overheated scram before links 30k scram with links 35.5k scram with links and overheat Can take RR Orthrus with TS Scram + TS Point Zippy Cost 430 (just points and hull) 16.9k scram 20.3 scram hot 22.7k scram with links 26.6k scram with links and heat Can take RR HIC: cost around 450 Slow as ** will scram to 21 with TS focus point Cannot take RR somewhat tanky So a couple problems here, first the orthrus and especially lach should easily be able to outperform a hic while maintaining the ability to take RR and are considerably faster and more agile. Also a defensive scram on your orthrus almost certainly means the hic has no means to actually hold you down. This. As a micro/small gang PvPer who regularly flies against extremely kitey groups (heavily leaning toward Orthrus/Inty), this is a pretty brutal change. I don't think that most of the HICs are extremely OP in micro/small gangs. RegenOnyx is pretty bad (hello 3k+ DPS tank), but none of the rest are very balanced, and Broadsword is pretty awful. HICs make an extremely good counter to kitey gangs, and can let groups that prefer brawling able to compete. Most ships fast enough to catch kiting ships is weak enough to get blapped (thanks to RLML). Besides, what ever happened to small, measured changes? This is a 47%** reduction in HICs scram effectiveness. (I suppose it's measured.) As a suggestion, I think a more reasonable change would be to start with something like 30km cold, 35km hot for T2.



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