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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2831
   |
Posted - 2017.02.26 18:30:03 -
[331] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:Ok, I will give up on this. It was partly a nice discussion and some good input but overall it just feels like people want to buff the smallgang warfare without any need for it. I enjoy smallgang/BLOPs a lot more than anything else in EvE but after this patch it seems there will be even less fights to pick from because the standing fleets will either respond with overwhelming numbers or not at all. #rip #smallgang
Time to focus on BLOPs I guess and wait for a time where less people cry about too many things. :)
What is your entire argument here? Standing fleets will bring more because HICs are broken as ****, easy to use and 1 ship answers to the current meta and they'll feel they'll need more? But you were saying HICs were balanced? :thinking:
One ship does not answer to the current meta. That's completely false. You have set up a straw man.
If all I bring is a HIC, the guys with dual propulsion or an oversized afterburner run away laughing at my 2700 m/s overheated, boosted speed (Onyx with C-Type MWD and one Nanofiber). So, I automatically need to bring skirmish boosters and a webbing ship to compete - even with a 37km scram. That assumes I am facing a competent opponent. Against incompetent morons, perhaps I can get away with just a couple of HIC's, but I could use almost any ship to deal with them.
Against the solo-roamers in Battleships and Battlecruisers: I do not rate them as competent opponents. The only thing I am concerned about if I see a solo battleship is whether they are hot drop bait. I don't care how personally skilled they are, or how much bling they have in their ships. They are not competent opponents. Just suicidal. We do not balance the game around solo Battleships and solo Battlecruisers. That would be like balancing the game around suicide ganking.   
Please show me where competent kiting gangs are regularly getting destroyed by just HIC's. They are not. I assure you that Exodus and The Culture don't die to just HIC's. It's just one group of risk averse people (Kiting Roamers) complaining about another group of risk averse people (Home Defense fleets). No one in Eve wants to lose ships. That's why longer scram ranges are good. They make it harder to run away from a fight.
I will grant you that HIC's are too good in their current state. They should have a maximum scram range of 27-30km (T2 vs Faction) (without heat - leave heat as it is for WDFG's). The Lachesis and Arazu should have a maximum scram range of 37-40km (depending on warp scrambler meta level and with heat). That leaves a role for HIC's in the small gang meta that makes them a powerful adversary, without stomping all over the Gallente Recon's role. It leaves the Lachesis and Arazu able to more effectively counter the kiting meta of 45km points.
That would encourage roamers to use more Gallente Recons as well, because they would then be powerful enough to considering bringing along on a roam. I do not usually see HIC's brought on roaming gangs, presumably because they are so clumsy and lumbering that they would get caught and die.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
WE FORM V0LTA
57
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 18:37:03 -
[332] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:
Please show me where competent kiting gangs are regularly getting destroyed by just HIC's. They are not. I assure you that Exodus and The Culture don't die to just HIC's. It's just one group of risk averse people (Kiting Roamers) complaining about another group of risk averse people (Home Defense fleets). No one in Eve wants to lose ships. That's why longer scram ranges are good. They make it harder to run away from a fight.
Tbf; the HIC won't be the most efficient when it comes to burning at a target, people will just pull range as you are approaching.
However the role where it really does shine is when you start pinging on a roaming fleet, you'll just shatter their pack everytimes, and thanks to your tank you'll be able to keep the ships scrambled while waiting for your fleet to back you up, something that arazu / lachesis are less likely to do due to the lower tank and increased price due to Scrambl / disruptors price.
Luckly most of the HICs don't think about it, as a roamer, there is nothing more scarying than a HIC knowing his ****. |
Doddy
Excidium.
963
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 20:19:47 -
[333] - Quote
Oh look, CCP gives in to crybabies again.
Just for once could you show some backbone. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2831
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 20:25:49 -
[334] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:
Please show me where competent kiting gangs are regularly getting destroyed by just HIC's. They are not. I assure you that Exodus and The Culture don't die to just HIC's. It's just one group of risk averse people (Kiting Roamers) complaining about another group of risk averse people (Home Defense fleets). No one in Eve wants to lose ships. That's why longer scram ranges are good. They make it harder to run away from a fight.
Tbf; the HIC won't be the most efficient when it comes to burning at a target, people will just pull range as you are approaching. However the role where it really does shine is when you start pinging on a roaming fleet, you'll just shatter their pack everytimes, and thanks to your tank you'll be able to keep the ships scrambled while waiting for your fleet to back you up, something that arazu / lachesis are less likely to do due to the lower tank and increased price due to Scrambl / disruptors price Luckly most of the HICs don't think about it, as a roamer, there is nothing more scarying than a HIC knowing his ****.
Yes, I have found that HIC's make great secondary tacklers. When we are properly prepared, we have a prober squad warping fast tacklers. The HIC stays aligned until the Interceptors get tackle (ideally a scram), then warps to the fast tacklers before they die. Even though you may trade a couple of Interceptors, you can at least hold them long enough to get some kills. The extra scram range is essential because otherwise the kiters can glide out of range before you get out of warp. This works way better than the tackler zerg rush towards the roamers, which gets you all strung out so that you die sequentially.
Of course, the fact that you know this already simply demonstrates what a weak straw man Suitonia and others have established.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Suitonia
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
791
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 20:30:29 -
[335] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:
If all I bring is a HIC, the guys with dual propulsion or an oversized afterburner run away laughing at my 2700 m/s overheated, boosted speed (Onyx with C-Type MWD and one Nanofiber). So, I automatically need to bring skirmish boosters and a webbing ship to compete - even with a 37km scram. That assumes I am facing a competent opponent. Against incompetent morons, perhaps I can get away with just a couple of HIC's, but I could use almost any ship to deal with them.
The reason why people run Dual-Prop or oversized AB is almost entirely due to HICs, and to a lesser extent carriers, which are augmented by HICs. There is a reason why every high-end successful nano group such as Turn Left, Therabois, Method Synergy (Lussy Lous russian dudes) and Micro Gang etc. are posting in this thread. You absolutely have to run Orthrus + Keres, or 100mn AB in the current climate because of HICs. We've been running 100mn AB gangs for the past 2 years and it's getting incredibly stale.
Why do you need a 37km scram vs AB ships anyway? A disruptor does the same thing. The only difference between a Huginn and a HIC, is that a Huginn actually has a fairly reasonable chance of dying if it's caught out of position or too aggressive and also doesn't have a point at the same range too. Lachesis also has similar EHP. Where as a HIC has almost 3x the EHP of most 4-5 slot tanks on Huginn/Lachesis, while being more oppressive and doing more damage than either of them.
The problem with the HIC is that you are combining 3 different roles into 1 ship with battleship EHP. You're combining the Roles of a Sabre, Huginn, Lachesis, giving them better DPS and BS EHP. It's a one stop shop for countering anyone who isn't fit for dealing with HICs. Adding all four of those named ships very often would be better than fighting just a single HIC in a lot of cases for skirmish gangs, because at least they are killable and can be punished if they make an error.
I'm not saying you should balance the game around solo BCs and Battleships, but the problem is that a HIC shuts down all of their utility while also remaining outside heavy neut and grappler range making them able to easily permanently control a BS. With 21km Scrams you at least have to be on the edge of Heavy Neut optimal, and in CR BS gun range. So BS will have more tools to deal with them. They still have more EHP than a battleship so can survive and hold it down long enough to get support, HICs should be support ships, not solo pwn mobiles with BS EHP, Recon Control and HAC DPS.
I know there are many other ships which mean the end for anyone trying to do anything in battleships (Falcon etc.), but those ships have no skirmish control or DPS, and have 1/4th of the EHP of the typical HIC if it fucks up so its way more likely to at least die in a mistake, in a HIC you can be the worst pilot on the planet and still do well, it's the old Svipul.
Quote:
Please show me where competent kiting gangs are regularly getting destroyed by just HIC's. They are not. I assure you that Exodus and The Culture don't die to just HIC's. It's just one group of risk averse people (Kiting Roamers) complaining about another group of risk averse people (Home Defense fleets). No one in Eve wants to lose ships. That's why longer scram ranges are good. They make it harder to run away from a fight.
The Competent kiting gangs don't get destroyed by HICs, because they run Orthrus+Keres or 100mn AB. The ships that they absolutely have to fly if they want to play the game. It's a shame that 80% of the ship pool is obsoleted by them, hence this thread.
Defenders already have jump bridges, cyno beacons, capitals. If you have a stronger fleet than the roamers and they want to escape, then you already have tools at your disposal to cut them off. 37.5km scrams just punish anyone not running the meta.
Quote:
I will grant you that HIC's are too good in their current state. They should have a maximum scram range of 27-30km (T2 vs Faction) (without heat - leave heat as it is for WDFG's). The Lachesis and Arazu should have a maximum scram range of 37-40km (depending on warp scrambler meta level and with heat). That leaves a role for HIC's in the small gang meta that makes them a powerful adversary, without stomping all over the Gallente Recon's role. It leaves the Lachesis and Arazu able to more effectively counter the kiting meta of 45km points.
I think 21km is fine because it's in heavy neut range at least, and leaves some room to play with disruptor 24km (28.8km) vs HIC 21km, where you can keep it tackled but not scrammed, as well as some room to maneuver around it while keeping point on something else. Personally I would rather see it be closer to 15km. I think 27-30km is way too oppressive and will retain the current 100mn ab meta that everyone is sick of.
You mention 45km point (Clearly you mean the Orthrus here). The Orthrus is a broken ship, we know it, everyone knows it, CCP knows it. Lets nerf the Orthrus instead of making the other 80% of roaming ships remain collecting dust in peoples hangers. The Orthrus keeps getting brought up as a reason for HICs to exist, the Orthrus is the only surviving MWD cruiser in the meta BECAUSE OF HICS. Nerf the Orthrus please. Nerf the HIC scram also, so we can have a more dynamic game with more options instead of being forced into 2 gang comps like we are now.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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FSync
Project Abscond
Initiative Mercenaries
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 16:20:10 -
[336] - Quote
I think this is a bad change.
I shall elaborate;
- The HIC was already a rarely used ship in low-sec engagement, after these changes they are going to be non-existent in low sec.
- The HIC will only be useable in 2 situations which rarely occur: capital on a gate -> sovblock warfare.
Right now the HIC class has formidable ships in there with each of their own specialties, and their main specialty is interdiction.
As soon as these changes are implemented, it's main use will be obsolete over the Orthrus, let alone it will drop slow tanky long scrams which had many ways to counter (ever fought a hic? just sit below it's optimals for example?).
I agree the HIC class is overpowered, I have made use of it many times gatecamping, though I do not agree that it should be nerfed that much.
A nerf of 20% is brilliant (max scram range of 28k), but what the OP says is not 20% but more 49% decrease.
Just taking out an entire class because a CSM Mr Hyde claimed it would be a good idea is going to make fundamental changes on how most battles are going to be fought out involving Hictors, and I can tell you up front, people will not pick the Hictor anymore outside of 0 sec, while we were already seeing so few hictors.
There's an insane amount of supercaps and titans out there, they are supposed to be rare, don't take the one tool away that made it somewhat affordable and useable vs capitals, a 50% nerf is really substantial.
Enfin, I think the idea to change the hictor is a good idea, but the method is a tad bit drastic if not, too overwhelming.
I hope CCP reviews this change before it makes it into the final build.
EDIT: I'm seeing posts about how people don't need to fit AB anymore, isn't eve all about fitting the right tool for the job? The HIC was the right tool to catch those fast guys who otherwise would spam microwarpdrives, I guarantee you it's going to be vagabond camping all over again. |
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns
WE FORM V0LTA
135
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 17:11:47 -
[337] - Quote
The 21km scram is good for faction. Then the hic has to be within heavy neut optimal and within extreme ranges of grappler. The 37.* scram is just too powerful to such strong tank and strong DPS. Compare the scram range to a mordus ship. The scram is way longer, yet the ship is way more tanky and has a 300-500 dps whitch is pretty much.
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Kassimila
CryNet.
Solyaris Chtonium
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 17:30:58 -
[338] - Quote
This change seems a bit odd to me. Long range scram is the one thing HICs do well, why take that away? In my mind every class of ship in eve needs a purpose. The original purpose of the HIC was to point Supers/Titans. With the changes to fighters, and the addition of HAWs, that's not really possible anymore. Being able to get repaired while pointing might fix that. As it stands right now, for about 10% of the isk cost you could just bring a dictor bubble up, and cloak (repeat as needed).
Please do not put this change in until you have a role for HICs to perform. There is no purpose for leaving them in la-la land. In the current meta long range scram is the only thing they do well.
Some Ideas to make HICs useful -
Remove interceptor immunity to HIC bubbles.
Change it so you cannot cloak in a HIC bubble.
Remove T3 Immunity to HIC bubbles.
Add the ability to be repaired while using Focus point, but not bubble.
Instead of adding another 'script' to shut off MWDs, change the Focus point to function differently depending on range, example below.
22-30+km = It just points them.
10-22km = It points them and turns off MWDs.
0-10km = It turns off MWDs, applies faction specific effect, and points them.
Faction Specific effects: Amarr: Neut, Caldari:Jam, Gallante:Damp ,Minimitar:Web
IMO: Those bubble changes would be good reason to bring/fly a HIC. |
Cade Windstalker
938
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 18:01:49 -
[339] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:This change seems a bit odd to me. Long range scram is the one thing HICs do well, why take that away? In my mind every class of ship in eve needs a purpose. The original purpose of the HIC was to point Supers/Titans. With the changes to fighters, and the addition of HAWs, that's not really possible anymore. Being able to get repaired while pointing might fix that. As it stands right now, for about 10% of the isk cost you could just bring a dictor bubble up, and cloak (repeat as needed).
Because HICs already have other things they do well, and Gallente EWar's role is long-range point and scram. Something they were being completely eclipsed in by the HIC which offers every advantage over a Recon Cruiser in terms of HP, damage, scram range, and general utility.
Also HICs are absolutely used to point caps and up. Anyone saying that's not possible anymore has been hilariously misinformed. |
Kassimila
CryNet.
Solyaris Chtonium
0
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 18:13:32 -
[340] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Because HICs already have other things they do well, and Gallente EWar's role is long-range point and scram. Something they were being completely eclipsed in by the HIC which offers every advantage over a Recon Cruiser in terms of HP, damage, scram range, and general utility.
Also HICs are absolutely used to point caps and up. Anyone saying that's not possible anymore has been hilariously misinformed.
Oh you can point them, you won't live very long, but yeah you can point them. |
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Cade Windstalker
941
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 21:23:52 -
[341] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:Oh you can point them, you won't live very long, but yeah you can point them. Also if you take a look the sensor strength on a HIC is like 19 base, the lachesis is 30. If you don't like being focus pointed, you can jam them out pretty easy. Sorry your MWD garmer can't jam well?
You're acting like the only place anyone ever tackles a Cap is in the middle of a giant blob. I can assure you this is not the case. Yes, in a big fight a 'dictor is a better bet than a HIC, but that doesn't make HICs useless by a long shot. They got plenty of use before they could scram and will continue to see plenty of use after.
Just because they occasionally get HAW-blapped doesn't change that.
Also I don't have a Garmur, but I appreciate your concern for its hypothetical jam strength  |
Kassimila
CryNet.
Solyaris Chtonium
2
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 21:59:21 -
[342] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi m8s,
In March, we're releasing a number of balance tweaks and we would love your feedback.
WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options. As such, we're going to make some changes.
.
Let me approach this from another perspective, and I'd love CCP Larrikin's feedback on this. The statement here is that focused points are 'too oppressive' especially in small gang pvp. This seems to be neglecting a couple of key factors about the HIC.
1.) Focused point is very cap intensive.
2.) HICs don't have the best sensor/target range setup.
The following ships can easily counter a HIC focus pointing.
Griffin
Kitsune
Blackbird
Rook
Falcon
Keres
Lachesis
Arazu
Sentinel
Curse
Pilgrim
Anyone with medium/heavy neuts.
With this much counter play available, why the nerf? Maybe don't 'small gang' in 20x svipul's? I'm not seeing the logic here. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2833
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 22:32:06 -
[343] - Quote
Ugly Eric wrote:The 21km scram is good for faction. Then the hic has to be within heavy neut optimal and within extreme ranges of grappler. The 37.* scram is just too powerful to such strong tank and strong DPS. Compare the scram range to a mordus ship. The scram is way longer, yet the ship is way more tanky and has a 300-500 dps whitch is pretty much.
Why are we concerned about heavy neutralizer range? To make HIC's somewhat less useful against solo Battleships? We don't balance the game around solo anything. Solo Battleships will still get caught and killed by small gangs, with or without this change. What this will really do is make HIC's less effective versus Capitals and Supercapitals. Might as well delete them since Interdictors are already better at that role anyway.
This is a short-sighted change driven by crying from solo roamers and small gang kiters.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
816
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 22:46:32 -
[344] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi m8s,
In March, we're releasing a number of balance tweaks and we would love your feedback.
WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options. As such, we're going to make some changes.
. Let me approach this from another perspective, and I'd love CCP Larrikin's feedback on this. The statement here is that focused points are 'too oppressive' especially in small gang pvp. This seems to be neglecting a couple of key factors about the HIC. 1.) Focused point is very cap intensive. 2.) HICs don't have the best sensor/target range setup. The following ships can easily counter a HIC focus pointing. Griffin Kitsune Blackbird Rook Falcon Keres Lachesis Arazu Sentinel Curse Pilgrim Anyone with medium/heavy neuts. With this much counter play available, why the nerf? Maybe don't 'small gang' in 20x svipul's? I'm not seeing the logic here.
Do tell me how "anything" with heavy neuts will counter a HIC thats at 35km, about a full 15km outside optimal and deep into falloff. Unless youre a geddon or a bhaalgorn, but that is certainly not "anything". Same applies to the laughable inclusion of medium neuts. Any HIC pilot with a brain will screen/scram you before you can get in range to apply unbonused heavy/medium neuts.
Also cap boosted/batteried HICs are common. I mean unless you dont know how to fit your ship. I flew a cap boosted with a battery onyx, and it tanked well over 100k damage with just a large shield booster. Getting hit with a single heavy or medium neut would have had little effect.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Make the Muninn great again!
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2833
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 23:06:07 -
[345] - Quote
Stitch,
Medium neutralizers are part of the discussion because Suitonia and others have expressed a preference for 15km scram range. That's pretty close. Also, not everyone is solo. Surely any non-suicidal pilot has friends who can come in close and neutralize a HIC? Or jam it out?
You are talking as if slow, 92000 EHP ships that cannot receive remote repairs while doing anything useful and MUST fit a battery or cap booster to do anything cannot be killed by an opposing small gang. They can and do get killed. Just not by kiters who stay too far away to hurt them or suicidal solo pilots.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Kassimila
CryNet.
Solyaris Chtonium
5
|
Posted - 2017.02.27 23:29:21 -
[346] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Do tell me how "anything" with heavy neuts will counter a HIC thats at 35km, about a full 15km outside optimal and deep into falloff. Unless youre a geddon or a bhaalgorn, but that is certainly not "anything". Same applies to the laughable inclusion of medium neuts. Any HIC pilot with a brain will screen/scram you before you can get in range to apply unbonused heavy/medium neuts.
Also cap boosted/batteried HICs are common. I mean unless you dont know how to fit your ship. I flew a cap boosted with a battery onyx, and it tanked well over 100k damage with just a large shield booster. Getting hit with a single heavy or medium neut would have had little effect.
Again this is small "GANG" pvp, a HIC can't focus point everyone. Stop playing the 'well if this, and that' game. Everything in eve is situational. The point is simply they are neut vulnerable, and anything with medium/heavy neuts can get on it and cap it out. This is called counter play. I fail to see how focus pointing a single target is 'too supressive' for small gang warfare. I've yet to see 5-10 man HIC gangs running around, because alas it's not all that. It's simply a good ability a group of ships get, and nerfing it doesn't do anything productive for the game in my opinion. |
Kagi Anzomi
CK-0FF
Reverberation Project
15
|
Posted - 2017.02.28 07:10:44 -
[347] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:What this will really do is make HIC's less effective versus Capitals and Supercapitals. Might as well delete them since Interdictors are already better at that role anyway.
As much as I hate the proposed changes I have to correct you on that. The focused scram is getting a massive range reduction but you can still have a focused disruptor with the same range and strength they have now. That will hold caps down just as effectively, unless you're getting kited by a 50000MN Snaked nano Hel or something. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2833
|
Posted - 2017.02.28 11:09:48 -
[348] - Quote
Kagi Anzomi wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:What this will really do is make HIC's less effective versus Capitals and Supercapitals. Might as well delete them since Interdictors are already better at that role anyway. As much as I hate the proposed changes I have to correct you on that. The focused scram is getting a massive range reduction but you can still have a focused disruptor with the same range and strength they have now. That will hold caps down just as effectively, unless you're getting kited by a 50000MN Snaked nano Hel or something.
That's fair.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Kassimila
CryNet.
Solyaris Chtonium
8
|
Posted - 2017.02.28 15:03:33 -
[349] - Quote
Kagi Anzomi wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:What this will really do is make HIC's less effective versus Capitals and Supercapitals. Might as well delete them since Interdictors are already better at that role anyway. As much as I hate the proposed changes I have to correct you on that. The focused scram is getting a massive range reduction but you can still have a focused disruptor with the same range and strength they have now. That will hold caps down just as effectively, unless you're getting kited by a 50000MN Snaked nano Hel or something.
inb4 new meta is snake nano Hel |
Delarian Rox
FHTAAAGN
23
|
Posted - 2017.03.01 09:55:17 -
[350] - Quote
I only hope that HIC's wil get either some speed or dps buffs to compencate this nerf. Or maybe larger dronebays.
And i'm strongly against overheated scram range cause it lead to the same problems - gatecamps you can't escape from.
P. S. Almost trained them to V lol |
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Cade Windstalker
966
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 01:52:39 -
[351] - Quote
Delarian Rox wrote:I only hope that HIC's wil get either some speed or dps buffs to compencate this nerf. Or maybe larger dronebays.
And i'm strongly against overheated scram range cause it lead to the same problems - gatecamps you can't escape from.
P. S. Almost trained them to V lol
Seems unlikely, considering they didn't get any nerfs when they originally let HIC points Scram stuff a year ago. |
Ruby Gnollo
17
|
Posted - 2017.03.02 05:48:41 -
[352] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Ok, I will give up on this. It was partly a nice discussion and some good input but overall it just feels like people want to buff the smallgang warfare without any need for it. I enjoy smallgang/BLOPs a lot more than anything else in EvE but after this patch it seems there will be even less fights to pick from because the standing fleets will either respond with overwhelming numbers or not at all. #rip #smallgang
Time to focus on BLOPs I guess and wait for a time where less people cry about too many things. :)
What's interesting is hearing CCP taking the CSM as an excuse for this. Twice. |
Prometheus Centuri
Interstellar Deshipping Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 22:00:19 -
[353] - Quote
Here we go again... something else to fiddle around with.
STOP TRYING TO FIX SOMETHING THAT'S NOT BROKEN! There's a reason why it's called a "HEAVY INTERDICTOR". If you're going to have a recon that can do a better job then why the hell would you need a HIC anyway? To limit their use to capitals only? then how does this help small gang warfare?!?
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token trade alt
Slamming Mad B-Balls
9
|
Posted - 2017.03.03 22:10:38 -
[354] - Quote
Just gonna point out (point, get it?) that if the Mordu ships didn't have a point range bonus none of this would have ever come up. It's nice to live in a world where you have a recon or something nearby to scram at range, with bonuses at all times, but for most people, against one ship, it's unrealistic. You get near one of those ships with your inferior scram range and they just turn off your mwd before you can, theirs. Kitey ships worked for quite a while without something that kept them inherently safe, this just makes sure that unless the pilot is kind of slow or drunk off the hubris that these ships provide, you're not going to lose it. Not to mention anti-tackle RLML's dealing almost full damage.
Distinctly recall back in the day larger ship types were supposed to have difficulty with smaller targets. Weird. |
Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
56
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Posted - 2017.03.04 09:36:47 -
[355] - Quote
Reducing focused scram range reduction on HICs is a poor idea for pretty much all of the reasons stated; having a long range scram is one of the main reasons to take the time to train the hull from 4 to 5, and to train graviton physics to 5, which is around 40-44 days of training to take both from 4 to 5.
If you have the focused scram script loaded, you generally aren't tackling more than one target as multiple disruption field generators aren't fitted when you intend to use the hull in this manner.
The proliferation of oversized AB fits isn't because of HICs, it is because of scrams in general, as well as all the tengus and mordus legion ships out there.
Out of all the things to spend time 'balancing' I'd think that medium projectiles would be higher on the list of things to do; a balancing pass to medium projectiles would certainly be welcomed by a much larger % of the community than nerfing hictors.
my other nano is a polycarb
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GROUND XERO
Rennfeuer
Project.Mayhem.
13
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Posted - 2017.03.04 12:41:36 -
[356] - Quote
... this is ********!
Kiting guys got through this a long time ago! So while super are getting cheap as **** you nerf the tackle for em... NCPL-Change?
I can see the problem when jumping solo through a gate and found yourself infront of a remote sebo hic waiting to stop you! But than again every other remote sebo camp will cause the same effect! So i never saw a need to change and i doubt there is one!
NCPL (Necromonger of new Eden) will make EVE great again!
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Lucy Callagan
TURN LEFT
232
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Posted - 2017.03.04 15:04:32 -
[357] - Quote
Nikea Tiber wrote:The proliferation of oversized AB fits isn't because of HICs, it is because of scrams in general, as well as all the tengus and mordus legion ships out there.
Hum... No.
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Cade Windstalker
993
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Posted - 2017.03.04 19:41:24 -
[358] - Quote
Nikea Tiber wrote:Reducing focused scram range reduction on HICs is a poor idea for pretty much all of the reasons stated; having a long range scram is one of the main reasons to take the time to train the hull from 4 to 5, and to train graviton physics to 5, which is around 40-44 days of training to take both from 4 to 5.
If you have the focused scram script loaded, you generally aren't tackling more than one target as multiple disruption field generators aren't fitted when you intend to use the hull in this manner.
The proliferation of oversized AB fits isn't because of HICs, it is because of scrams in general, as well as all the tengus and mordus legion ships out there.
Out of all the things to spend time 'balancing' I'd think that medium projectiles would be higher on the list of things to do; a balancing pass to medium projectiles would certainly be welcomed by a much larger % of the community than nerfing hictors.
Except that oversized AB fits have been a thing for over 4 years now, and HICs being able to scram at all with their point is only a year old. Also people trained L5 HIC and T2 points well before HIC-scrams were a thing.
As to your argument that CCP could better spend their time elsewhere, this is a fairly small and obvious change. HICs are better at being a Gallente Recon than the Gallente Recons are, and CCP even said back in the original HIC changes thread that they were considering exactly this change if HIC scrams turned out to be OP. In comparison re-balancing medium projectiles, again, is a much larger project and a lot more time on CCP's part. |
Kagi Anzomi
CK-0FF
Reverberation Project
19
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Posted - 2017.03.05 08:03:34 -
[359] - Quote
GROUND XERO wrote:... this is ********!
Kiting guys got through this a long time ago! So while super are getting cheap as **** you nerf the tackle for em... and it is no longer possible to stay out of heavy neut range....NCPL-Change?
I can see the problem when jumping solo through a gate and found yourself infront of a remote sebo hic waiting to stop you! But than again every other remote sebo camp will cause the same effect! So i never saw a need to change and i doubt there is one!
This does not affect tacking supers unless they're somehow faster than the HIC. You can still warp disrupt them at the current range, it just won't be a scram. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3862
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Posted - 2017.03.05 10:59:26 -
[360] - Quote
Kassimila wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi m8s,
In March, we're releasing a number of balance tweaks and we would love your feedback.
WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options. As such, we're going to make some changes.
. Let me approach this from another perspective, and I'd love CCP Larrikin's feedback on this. The statement here is that focused points are 'too oppressive' especially in small gang pvp. This seems to be neglecting a couple of key factors about the HIC. 1.) Focused point is very cap intensive. 2.) HICs don't have the best sensor/target range setup. The following ships can easily counter a HIC focus pointing. Griffin Kitsune Blackbird Rook Falcon Keres Lachesis Arazu Sentinel Curse Pilgrim Anyone with medium/heavy neuts. With this much counter play available, why the nerf? Maybe don't 'small gang' in 20x svipul's? I'm not seeing the logic here.
how about the fact that they out scram the dedicated scram E-war ship with significantly more tank and DPS? not to mention a sebo or two and a cap booster let it just go on ignoring your counters.
BLOPS Hauler
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