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Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns WE FORM V0LTA
130
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Posted - 2017.02.25 12:42:52 -
[301] - Quote
Lukka wrote:That's a -40% range bonus. (21/35) (x100%).
Seems extreme to me for a ship class which was hardly over-used. It further plays into the fast (uncatchable) ship meta which predominates small gang warfare and makes the heavy interdictors class effectively useless outside of supercap tackle again.
Why this change is unfavourable:
1. Serves to further restrict small gang ship and meta choices. 2. Makes heavy interdictors effectively useless outside of supercapital tackle. 3. Restricts viable fitting options to passive tank dual tackle script for reason 2, above. 4. No rationale is provided for the change beyond an anecdote for which no evidence is given.
The -20% bonus to range is from a unscripted WDFG, not scripted. The focused script we now have has a rangebonus of +50% and now we get the scramblescript with bonus of -20% |
Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
138
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Posted - 2017.02.25 12:56:48 -
[302] - Quote
Ugly Eric wrote:Too many ppl to quote, so i wont.
To yall concidering why we kiters dont use lach instead of hic:
Is a complicated reason. First off the simple stuff. While hic mobility is lower than lach, it still is easily good enough. Especially on the era without off grid boosts. Also a hic is tanky. Even the kitey devoter with single resist and single rep is tanky. Thirdly it has deeps. 400-600 dps. In a ship that is tanky, mobile, has awesome utility. Choosing a lach would mean i need second ship to do the deeps and/or antitackle, thus enlargening my gang and thus making finding fights even harder it already is.
We eve players have become so retardedly risk averse fucks that is not fun no more. I bet 90% of ppl in this discussion have never taken a hic outside dockingrange of a station. Nullbears loathe kiters and kiters loathe nullbears. Why would a kiting fleet want tous brawl in the undock? Why would a brawler want to follow the kiter? Ofc not.
The 40km scram on a hic was way too overpowered. Many of ya nullbears hate this change beacause it takes away security from you. Many of us kiters hate this change beacause it takes away security from us. And many of each groups members seems to be unable to understand the opposing groups thoughts.
I support this change beacause i have personally been involved in the rude abusing of this ship classes overpowered capabilities. Once again:
-any frig outside keres/maulus has been totally unable to tackle a hic -not any one shipclass should be able to fullfill so many different roles with such ease -while diversity is good, too broad and too specialized diversity is bad -40km scram, while good tool- should not be possible without pimping, links and overheat. It just is too powerfull tool otherwise. -broad(more range to weapons) phobos(dronebay) should get some love
Also ya'll saying there is no hics around: oh, but there are. They wont show up on ZKB due to kiting ppl avoiding them like plague and kiters not killing gamewide enough ppl to actually get on top10's.
Had to quote you, because there is some stuff to address but one thing first.
Can we please, once and for all stop saying "40km scram"? It is 37.5km with max skills and t2 focus point. Stop looking dumb because you speak of 39.5/40km scrams. There is no such thing. Thank you. :) My Arazu/Lachscram goes up to 30.5 for the record. Plus dampener I am pretty much in the same boat as a HIC without being a clunky, sluggish hull that will die as soon as we have to run. Cost is the same or even cheaper by a little compared to a HIC. Tank is the same compared to a "fast/nano" HIC and I am way faster and bring more utility to the fleet while rendering any other HIC point useless.
I personally fly all space except hi-sec and I barely see HICs out there. It has nothing to do with killboard stats or alike they are not out there when it comes to small gangs. You find them in gatecamp compostions, on stations and in "real" fleets. But you will not see many of them in small gangs. If you see them out there, let me know, I am eager to find me some HICs outside of fleet fights, gatecamps and station games.
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Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society Jump Drive Appreciation Alliance
130
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Posted - 2017.02.25 13:11:10 -
[303] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Can we please, once and for all stop saying "40km scram"? It is 37.5km with max skills and t2 focus point. Stop looking dumb because you speak of 39.5/40km scrams. There is no such thing. Thank you. :) There are faction modules in the game.
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Lucy Callagan
TURN LEFT
229
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Posted - 2017.02.25 13:21:58 -
[304] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote: I personally fly all space except hi-sec and I barely see HICs out there. It has nothing to do with killboard stats or alike they are not out there when it comes to small gangs. You find them in gatecamp compostions, on stations and in "real" fleets. But you will not see many of them in small gangs. If you see them out there, let me know, I am eager to find me some HICs outside of fleet fights, gatecamps and station games.
There is a hic there(we blob them quite hard but still, this is a hic): https://zkillboard.com/br/88530/
There is also a hic there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtmvlpOPb6Q&t=482s?t=19m34s
And Also there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMQ-i_cwtOw
And there too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eCmo-S_gaM
Here also: https://zkillboard.com/br/88531/ (quite gay tbh)
There are many more examples but most of the time, a Hic make a gang just unengageable so there is no record of these cases |
Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
138
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Posted - 2017.02.25 13:26:41 -
[305] - Quote
Grookshank wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:Can we please, once and for all stop saying "40km scram"? It is 37.5km with max skills and t2 focus point. Stop looking dumb because you speak of 39.5/40km scrams. There is no such thing. Thank you. :) There are faction modules in the game.
So what? You wanna tell me that people use ******* faction WDFGs now? I guess the hi-sec people who camp stations/gates all the time do so. You won-¦t see them in zero-zero/low-sec except for some ****** maybe. Who in his right mind ******* fits a module that increased the price by a lot for 2.3km? That-¦s bollocks but ok, I gladly take any pointers towards small gang people who are using these modules. Else I call it bullshit like so many other statements here that never got backed up at all. It-¦s hard enough to accept the 37.5km range because most fits use pitfalls because of the better fitting and maybe because most people don-¦t train GP to V.
You-¦re trying to troll me with that right? |
Lucy Callagan
TURN LEFT
229
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Posted - 2017.02.25 13:34:06 -
[306] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:You-¦re trying to troll me with that right?
I'm trying to get views on my youtube channel :p |
Twilight Mourning
Suddenly Corporation. Suddenly Spaceships.
8
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Posted - 2017.02.25 13:45:04 -
[307] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:You-¦re trying to troll me with that right? I'm trying to get views on my youtube channel :p
I don't think anyone here is that desperate. |
Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
138
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Posted - 2017.02.25 13:57:28 -
[308] - Quote
Lucy Callagan wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:You-¦re trying to troll me with that right? I'm trying to get views on my youtube channel :p
If you have good stuff I-¦ll give it a shot. Always nice to watch some well recorded/edited vids. :) |
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns WE FORM V0LTA
131
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Posted - 2017.02.25 16:49:58 -
[309] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Grookshank wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:Can we please, once and for all stop saying "40km scram"? It is 37.5km with max skills and t2 focus point. Stop looking dumb because you speak of 39.5/40km scrams. There is no such thing. Thank you. :) There are faction modules in the game. So what? You wanna tell me that people use ******* faction WDFGs now? I guess the hi-sec people who camp stations/gates all the time do so. You won-¦t see them in zero-zero/low-sec except for some ****** maybe. Who in his right mind ******* fits a module that increased the price by a lot for 2.3km? That-¦s bollocks but ok, I gladly take any pointers towards small gang people who are using these modules. Else I call it bullshit like so many other statements here that never got backed up at all. It-¦s hard enough to accept the 37.5km range because most fits use pitfalls because of the better fitting and maybe because most people don-¦t train GP to V.
I do. There are a LOT of us, to whom isk is not a issue. And that 2.3km is actually quite a lot. as we just have been discussing the length of different bonused ship scrams, the longest scram always wins, so that 2.3km is quite a bit. |
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
343
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 16:55:45 -
[310] - Quote
I always use Faction scram on my hic, the extra range isnt the only benefit... the bubble up speed improvement is insane on a faction hic. instead of the usualy 300/400m/s my onyx can maintain 1000m/s with TS bubble up. |
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Cade Windstalker
914
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Posted - 2017.02.25 18:15:36 -
[311] - Quote
Kagi Anzomi wrote:I beg to differ. Pulse lasers can easily go to 35km. A Harbinger with Heavy Pulses and one tracking computer has an optimal of 31.7km and falloff of 42km with Scorch, and a Legion can easily surpass that without any tracking computers. A fairly standard Omen Navy Issue fit with locus coordinators has 46km optimal with Scorch.
Pulse are the exception, not the rule, and that only works on a range bonused ship with a fit to match and you're *still* not getting DPS equal to an actual long range medium weapons system. That same Harby with Beams hits out further and harder than your Pulse Harby does.
Also none of this actually refutes my *actual* point, which was that this isn't going to significantly change the meta beyond a general move away from HICs as range control. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
815
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 18:30:27 -
[312] - Quote
Ugly Eric wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:Grookshank wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:Can we please, once and for all stop saying "40km scram"? It is 37.5km with max skills and t2 focus point. Stop looking dumb because you speak of 39.5/40km scrams. There is no such thing. Thank you. :) There are faction modules in the game. So what? You wanna tell me that people use ******* faction WDFGs now? I guess the hi-sec people who camp stations/gates all the time do so. You won-¦t see them in zero-zero/low-sec except for some ****** maybe. Who in his right mind ******* fits a module that increased the price by a lot for 2.3km? That-¦s bollocks but ok, I gladly take any pointers towards small gang people who are using these modules. Else I call it bullshit like so many other statements here that never got backed up at all. It-¦s hard enough to accept the 37.5km range because most fits use pitfalls because of the better fitting and maybe because most people don-¦t train GP to V. I do. There are a LOT of us, to whom isk is not a issue. And that 2.3km is actually quite a lot. as we just have been discussing the length of different bonused ship scrams, the longest scram always wins, so that 2.3km is quite a bit.
Yeah, idk why he thinks people don't use faction mods. Most people i know who fly solo or small gang HICs will use a faction WDFG. One, they're really not that expensive, unless you're a poor, and 2 that extra range is pretty big.
So its quite fair for people to quote the 40km scram range as realistic. Most high end pvp corps aren't exactly lacking in isk.
FT Diomedes wrote:Stitch, you know I respect you, but the vitality of solo battecruisers or battleships is not a good thing to balance an entire ship class around. HIC's are not the cancer here. It's the Orthrus, Omen Navy Issue, Keres, Tengu gangs. They are already very strong and now will be even stronger.
I don't see a reason why you NEED 30-40km scram on a ship, plus 100k+ EHP. Why can't you bring a huginn+keres/arazu to catch kiters? I've fought you guys a lot, you're not exactly lacking on guys to put in ships. HIC's were primarily used to capture capitals, hence the need for the EHP to tank them. Why do you NEED that high range of a scram, and EHP, and being outside of reasonable counter ranges for things like heavy neuts to kill a battleship, or battlecruiser?
Just so you can say its good for killing an orthrus? Which is the one ship that is largely not affected by HICs, assuming the pilot isn't dumb and rams the HIC or gets under 40km (which it never should as RLML spam and long point range are outside HIC's range). Why could you not use a huginn or other EWAR ship to catch kiters, like has been successful in the past before HIC changes?
Everyone tells me, EVE isn't a solo game, so when I fly a solo battleship and die. I'll get the "well battleships were never meant to solo, you shouldn't expect to do all the things with one ship, you need support". So i'll fire that right back at the HIC apologists, you can't have your web and scram ship integrated completely into 1 ship, you should bring a coordinated gang that has both a web and scram ship.
What i'm seeing is that people are resistant to going back to how it used to be. Having 1 long range web ship and 1 long range tackle ship, because with how HIC's currently are, you don't need a Huginn/Rapier anymore, just long range scram everything with a HIC, so now you can throw in more dps or support ships.
If you say "well people will just run when they see a huginn/rapier etc", then i'll counter and say, HIC's aren't completely defanged, spread 2-3 of them on exit gate, and you should (in theory, and depending on gate) have complete coverage over that gate for scrams, just like you do now. However, it means you'll need to sit 2-3 ppl in HIC's, instead of just 1 person. Something most bigger alliances or corps shouldn't have any issue with. A well composed gang will still kill kiters all the same, its the ones that have been relying on a single ship with an IWIN button that are crying the loudest about these things, as now, they will need skill and better gang compositions to succeed in the same role.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Make the Muninn great again!
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Captain jdd
SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA
8
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:31:19 -
[313] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:So you are admitting that the Keres and Orthrus are overpowered? Thanks. When your best answer is bring the very ships that are the problem, then you need to reevaluate your argument. Absolutely not. You just said that they are OP. Then I recommend you to fly them too.
All ships are strong (or almost) when they are well employed. |
Ion Nizer
Guardians of the Gate I Aim To Misbehave
3
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Posted - 2017.02.25 21:51:11 -
[314] - Quote
So the scripted scram point range is nerfed below what many other ships can do. Ok.
But all the negatives to balance the former range are going to remain?
If you are going to make this change, let scripted HICs receive reps, overheat and get bonuses.
How about make the scram prevent gate jumps for subcaps?
You can't remove a bonus and not touch all the negatives that only existed because of that now missing bonus.
That at least feels like balancing, rather than a bit from the nerf bat. |
Cade Windstalker
918
|
Posted - 2017.02.25 23:21:48 -
[315] - Quote
Ion Nizer wrote:So the scripted scram point range is nerfed below what many other ships can do. Ok.
But all the negatives to balance the former range are going to remain?
If you are going to make this change, let scripted HICs receive reps, overheat and get bonuses.
How about make the scram prevent gate jumps for subcaps?
You can't remove a bonus and not touch all the negatives that only existed because of that now missing bonus.
That at least feels like balancing, rather than a bit from the nerf bat.
You appear to be misinformed sir.
HICs have never been able to receive reps while running a HIC point, scripted or otherwise. There were no changes made along with the HIC point-scram change of this nature, so there's nothing to revert here.
Oh, double bonus points for CCP calling out that they might do this a year and change ago. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3842
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 01:06:02 -
[316] - Quote
Ion Nizer wrote:So the scripted scram point range is nerfed below what many other ships can do. Ok.
But all the negatives to balance the former range are going to remain?
If you are going to make this change, let scripted HICs receive reps, overheat and get bonuses.
How about make the scram prevent gate jumps for subcaps?
You can't remove a bonus and not touch all the negatives that only existed because of that now missing bonus.
That at least feels like balancing, rather than a bit from the nerf bat.
You mean all the same penalties that were there before the hic could even scram?
Is this thread just full of new Bros or are their memories really this bad
BLOPS Hauler
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Kagi Anzomi
CK-0FF Reverberation Project
12
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Posted - 2017.02.26 02:35:14 -
[317] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Ion Nizer wrote:So the scripted scram point range is nerfed below what many other ships can do. Ok.
But all the negatives to balance the former range are going to remain?
If you are going to make this change, let scripted HICs receive reps, overheat and get bonuses.
How about make the scram prevent gate jumps for subcaps?
You can't remove a bonus and not touch all the negatives that only existed because of that now missing bonus.
That at least feels like balancing, rather than a bit from the nerf bat. You mean all the same penalties that were there before the hic could even scram? Is this thread just full of new Bros or are their memories really this bad It's pretty hard to remember how HICs were before that change because you'd only see them tackling supers. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3842
|
Posted - 2017.02.26 02:59:35 -
[318] - Quote
Kagi Anzomi wrote:lugh crow-slave wrote:
You mean all the same penalties that were there before the hic could even scram?
Is this thread just full of new Bros or are their memories really this bad
It's pretty hard to remember how HICs were before that change because you'd only see them tackling supers.
not really the long point was still used and their tanks made them great bait when it comes to LS and we used them for null camps all the time. only difference was the Gallente recon and EAF were also viable choices and the more optimal choice if you needed scram over tank. Now you will still have a long scram just not as long of a scram
BLOPS Hauler
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Cade Windstalker
921
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Posted - 2017.02.26 04:29:35 -
[319] - Quote
Kagi Anzomi wrote:It's pretty hard to remember how HICs were before that change because you'd only see them tackling supers.
This is really not accurate. HICtor camps have been a thing for years, well before the scram-point change. You'd just have another ship along with it to scram the target along with the HICtor to prevent stab-fits from getting away. Go look up insta-lock HICs and you'll find tons of old results. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2825
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Posted - 2017.02.26 13:34:46 -
[320] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
I don't see a reason why you NEED 30-40km scram on a ship, plus 100k+ EHP. Why can't you bring a huginn+keres/arazu to catch kiters? I've fought you guys a lot, you're not exactly lacking on guys to put in ships. HIC's were primarily used to capture capitals, hence the need for the EHP to tank them. Why do you NEED that high range of a scram, and EHP, and being outside of reasonable counter ranges for things like heavy neuts to kill a battleship, or battlecruiser?
Just so you can say its good for killing an orthrus? Which is the one ship that is largely not affected by HICs, assuming the pilot isn't dumb and rams the HIC or gets under 40km (which it never should as RLML spam and long point range are outside HIC's range). Why could you not use a huginn or other EWAR ship to catch kiters, like has been successful in the past before HIC changes?
Everyone tells me, EVE isn't a solo game, so when I fly a solo battleship and die. I'll get the "well battleships were never meant to solo, you shouldn't expect to do all the things with one ship, you need support". So i'll fire that right back at the HIC apologists, you can't have your web and scram ship integrated completely into 1 ship, you should bring a coordinated gang that has both a web and scram ship.
What i'm seeing is that people are resistant to going back to how it used to be. Having 1 long range web ship and 1 long range tackle ship, because with how HIC's currently are, you don't need a Huginn/Rapier anymore, just long range scram everything with a HIC, so now you can throw in more dps or support ships.
If you say "well people will just run when they see a huginn/rapier etc", then i'll counter and say, HIC's aren't completely defanged, spread 2-3 of them on exit gate, and you should (in theory, and depending on gate) have complete coverage over that gate for scrams, just like you do now. However, it means you'll need to sit 2-3 ppl in HIC's, instead of just 1 person. Something most bigger alliances or corps shouldn't have any issue with. A well composed gang will still kill kiters all the same, its the ones that have been relying on a single ship with an IWIN button that are crying the loudest about these things, as now, they will need skill and better gang compositions to succeed in the same role.
Stitch, with the prevalence of Phantasm's and other afterburning ships out there, you need a long range scram and a long range web to counter the kiters. I would be okay with using the Lachesis, if it had a range of 37-40 kilometers on the scram. That is the issue here. The HIC is good because it has enough range that if a kiter screws up and gets near you, it's dead. They typically try to stay around 45km away. Now they have much more margin for error. Against competent people, even a couple of kilometers difference matters (that's why some people use the faction WDFG).
The kiting play style usually has the freedom to pick the fights it wants. That's why people fly it. If a gang comes to visit, we form up a response and see what we get. If we have the composition to beat them, they can typically run away, unless we have the numbers to put a HIC + webs on their possible exit gates. For example, one group came for a roam yesterday with a small Gila gang. A couple of us responded with a couple of small tackle ships and my Onyx. We actually had fewer folks immediately available than they did, but the threat to their ability to run away made them leave. As soon as the Onyx came on d-scan, they ran away, literally crying in local "HIC = no fun." If I had brought a Lachesis, they wouldn't have seen it coming, but then they would have tried to run once they saw it on grid. Or, as soon as they saw a Scimitar on D-Scan. It's very hard to make people fight in this game.
For someone in your position, you'll die just as often if we bring a Lachesis as if we bring a HIC. You are playing a multiplayer game solo. I like you, but I won't balance the game around you. Same goes for Bjorn Bee or some of the other folks who solo roam. We killed Bjorn bee a couple of weeks ago after I locked him down in his Deimos. The amount of crying about HIC's from observers on his stream was apparently epic (I don't typically watch these things, so I am relying on what people tell me). If it hadn't been a HIC, it would have been a Lachesis. And if I thought the opposing ship might be able to kill the Lachesis, we would have had logistics or other electronic warfare support to keep that from happening.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2825
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Posted - 2017.02.26 13:38:55 -
[321] - Quote
Captain jdd wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:So you are admitting that the Keres and Orthrus are overpowered? Thanks. When your best answer is bring the very ships that are the problem, then you need to reevaluate your argument. Absolutely not. You just said that they are OP. Then I recommend you to fly them too. All ships are strong (or almost) when they are well employed.
By the reasoning of most kiting gangs who come into our space, if I flew them, they would not be well-employed.
If I flew them, then they would be totally OP and I would be a no-skill pilot abusing an overpowered ship.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2825
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Posted - 2017.02.26 13:47:19 -
[322] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Ugly Eric wrote:Too many ppl to quote, so i wont.
To yall concidering why we kiters dont use lach instead of hic:
Is a complicated reason. First off the simple stuff. While hic mobility is lower than lach, it still is easily good enough. Especially on the era without off grid boosts. Also a hic is tanky. Even the kitey devoter with single resist and single rep is tanky. Thirdly it has deeps. 400-600 dps. In a ship that is tanky, mobile, has awesome utility. Choosing a lach would mean i need second ship to do the deeps and/or antitackle, thus enlargening my gang and thus making finding fights even harder it already is.
We eve players have become so retardedly risk averse fucks that is not fun no more. I bet 90% of ppl in this discussion have never taken a hic outside dockingrange of a station. Nullbears loathe kiters and kiters loathe nullbears. Why would a kiting fleet want tous brawl in the undock? Why would a brawler want to follow the kiter? Ofc not.
The 40km scram on a hic was way too overpowered. Many of ya nullbears hate this change beacause it takes away security from you. Many of us kiters hate this change beacause it takes away security from us. And many of each groups members seems to be unable to understand the opposing groups thoughts.
I support this change beacause i have personally been involved in the rude abusing of this ship classes overpowered capabilities. Once again:
-any frig outside keres/maulus has been totally unable to tackle a hic -not any one shipclass should be able to fullfill so many different roles with such ease -while diversity is good, too broad and too specialized diversity is bad -40km scram, while good tool- should not be possible without pimping, links and overheat. It just is too powerfull tool otherwise. -broad(more range to weapons) phobos(dronebay) should get some love
Also ya'll saying there is no hics around: oh, but there are. They wont show up on ZKB due to kiting ppl avoiding them like plague and kiters not killing gamewide enough ppl to actually get on top10's. Had to quote you, because there is some stuff to address but one thing first. Can we please, once and for all stop saying "40km scram"? It is 37.5km with max skills and t2 focus point. Stop looking dumb because you speak of 39.5/40km scrams. There is no such thing. Thank you. :) My Arazu/Lachscram goes up to 30.5 for the record. Plus dampener I am pretty much in the same boat as a HIC without being a clunky, sluggish hull that will die as soon as we have to run. Cost is the same or even cheaper by a little compared to a HIC. Tank is the same compared to a "fast/nano" HIC and I am way faster and bring more utility to the fleet while rendering any other HIC point useless. I personally fly all space except hi-sec and I barely see HICs out there. It has nothing to do with killboard stats or alike they are not out there when it comes to small gangs. You find them in gatecamp compostions, on stations and in "real" fleets. But you will not see many of them in small gangs. If you see them out there, let me know, I am eager to find me some HICs outside of fleet fights, gatecamps and station games.
You are simply wrong on this point. At least where I am at, we fly HIC's a lot. If a nano gang comes to visit, we might field a couple of HIC's and a couple of bonused web ships in a ten-pilot gang (depending on who is online at the time). I've flown almost nothing except HIC's and Dreadnoughts on this character for the past year (I have other alts who fly different ships). I've encouraged everyone who would listen to get an Onyx for small gang fights, because it is just that good. We even toyed around with an Onyx or Devoter fleet doctrine.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2828
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Posted - 2017.02.26 13:54:25 -
[323] - Quote
Ugly Eric wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:Grookshank wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:Can we please, once and for all stop saying "40km scram"? It is 37.5km with max skills and t2 focus point. Stop looking dumb because you speak of 39.5/40km scrams. There is no such thing. Thank you. :) There are faction modules in the game. So what? You wanna tell me that people use ******* faction WDFGs now? I guess the hi-sec people who camp stations/gates all the time do so. You won-¦t see them in zero-zero/low-sec except for some ****** maybe. Who in his right mind ******* fits a module that increased the price by a lot for 2.3km? That-¦s bollocks but ok, I gladly take any pointers towards small gang people who are using these modules. Else I call it bullshit like so many other statements here that never got backed up at all. It-¦s hard enough to accept the 37.5km range because most fits use pitfalls because of the better fitting and maybe because most people don-¦t train GP to V. I do. There are a LOT of us, to whom isk is not a issue. And that 2.3km is actually quite a lot. as we just have been discussing the length of different bonused ship scrams, the longest scram always wins, so that 2.3km is quite a bit.
Yes, the extra range makes quite a bit of difference. I usually only use the T2 one for affordability reasons, but I die a little bit inside every time one of my corp mates fails to scram someone because he's using an inferior variant.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA
53
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Posted - 2017.02.26 15:58:58 -
[324] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:The kiting play style usually has the freedom to pick the fights it wants. That's why people fly it. If a gang comes to visit, we form up a response and see what we get. If we have the composition to beat them, they can typically run away, unless we have the numbers to put a HIC + webs on their possible exit gates. For example, one group came for a roam yesterday with a small Gila gang. A couple of us responded with a couple of small tackle ships and my Onyx. We actually had fewer folks immediately available than they did, but the threat to their ability to run away made them leave. As soon as the Onyx came on d-scan, they ran away, literally crying in local "HIC = no fun." If I had brought a Lachesis, they wouldn't have seen it coming, but then they would have tried to run once they saw it on grid. Or, as soon as they saw a Scimitar on D-Scan. It's very hard to make people fight in this game.
To their defense, the carrier menace that is implicitly linked to HICs is kinda scary yeah. |
Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
139
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Posted - 2017.02.26 16:14:28 -
[325] - Quote
Ok, I will give up on this. It was partly a nice discussion and some good input but overall it just feels like people want to buff the smallgang warfare without any need for it. I enjoy smallgang/BLOPs a lot more than anything else in EvE but after this patch it seems there will be even less fights to pick from because the standing fleets will either respond with overwhelming numbers or not at all. #rip #smallgang Time to focus on BLOPs I guess and wait for a time where less people cry about too many things. :)
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA
53
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Posted - 2017.02.26 16:17:41 -
[326] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote: Time to focus on BLOPs I guess and wait for a time where less people cry about too many things. :)
Buy a rorqual )) |
Lugh Crow-Slave
3847
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Posted - 2017.02.26 16:58:49 -
[327] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Ok, I will give up on this. It was partly a nice discussion and some good input but overall it just feels like people want to buff the smallgang warfare without any need for it. I enjoy smallgang/BLOPs a lot more than anything else in EvE but after this patch it seems there will be even less fights to pick from because the standing fleets will either respond with overwhelming numbers or not at all. #rip #smallgang Time to focus on BLOPs I guess and wait for a time where less people cry about too many things. :)
BLOPS Hauler
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Trajan Unknown
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
142
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Posted - 2017.02.26 17:46:30 -
[328] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote: Time to focus on BLOPs I guess and wait for a time where less people cry about too many things. :)
Buy a rorqual ))
Nah, I don-¦t need a Rorq to drop on ****. It would also mean I have to train into it on at least one alt and no thanks. :D
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Suitonia
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
791
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Posted - 2017.02.26 17:50:46 -
[329] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Ok, I will give up on this. It was partly a nice discussion and some good input but overall it just feels like people want to buff the smallgang warfare without any need for it. I enjoy smallgang/BLOPs a lot more than anything else in EvE but after this patch it seems there will be even less fights to pick from because the standing fleets will either respond with overwhelming numbers or not at all. #rip #smallgang Time to focus on BLOPs I guess and wait for a time where less people cry about too many things. :)
What is your entire argument here? Standing fleets will bring more because HICs are broken as ****, easy to use and 1 ship answers to the current meta and they'll feel they'll need more? But you were saying HICs were balanced? :thinking:
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs WE FORM V0LTA
53
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Posted - 2017.02.26 17:55:38 -
[330] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Daide Vondrichnov wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote: Time to focus on BLOPs I guess and wait for a time where less people cry about too many things. :)
Buy a rorqual )) Nah, I don-¦t need a Rorq to drop on ****. It would also mean I have to train into it on at least one alt and no thanks. :D
It's a bit off topic, but you've to admit that rorquals are better than BO at everything, insured they just cost a bit more than a BO hull. |
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