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This is the end of trade in empire as we know it

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Miusho Hyrule Corp	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:30:00 - [331] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Soulita Originally by: Ki An Combat fitted escorts safe the universe... erm freighter Care to elaborate? Please be specific. Didn't you read the thread? I'll go over it again: You keep two combat fitted escorts with you when moving a freighter through high sec. Their official job starts when the freighter is popped. They then guard the wreck so that noone can loot it, until haulers can be mobilized to pick up what survived. The unofficial, but more efficient job the escorts have is to dissuade any suicide gank on the freighter at all. After all, the suicide gankers know the flagging rules of high sec just as well as the freighter pilot, and they will know that there will be two tough opponents to take on for any ship seeking to loot the wreck. This rules out brining a freighter of their own, as it would be popped. They also know that the two escorts can pick and chose which thieves to agress, as they can shoot the thieves, but the thieves can't shoot back untill being shot. This is very simple stuff, and it is the one true solution to this 'problem' that is already in game. The only problem with it is that it doesn't work if the freighter is in an NPC corp, but that is the pilot's problem, and not CCP's or the rest of ours. /Ki Only freighters can take from a freighter wreck right? (read that in the patch notes a while ago) so then the freighter pilot would need a army to gank the freighter that comes to get his stuff...
Ha'Uler	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:51:00 - [332] Congratulations, your excessive whining has gotten this nerfed on Singularity. CONCORD now kills drones and their damage ignores resistances. Highsec is absolutely, perfectly safe now.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.07 11:53:00 - [333] The real solution in terms of escorts (if you were to go that way) is of course not to bother protecting the wreck, but just announcing clearly and in advance that they are there to destroy the wreck if the freighter gets popped. That way the Domi ganksquad will face a choice, if they go ahead and gank the freighter, they run the very real risk of ending up completely emptyhanded because the escorts will destroy their loot. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])
Andreas Kallesoee Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:43:00 - [334] Give the freighter pilots a choise of fitting a huge nuke in their cargo taking up... lets say 50K m3 and that insures that everything in the hold blows up if you are popped
Lothendra Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:55:00 - [335] Apologies if it's already been brought up in the last 12 pages of rabble, but here is my suggestion: Give freighter 1 low slot. Let them fit damage control module only. If they are attacked while flying AFK then they aren't going to be around to turn it on and get what they deserve, if they are present during the attack, they can turn it on and possibly escape with heavy structural damage. Attackers end up with dead battleships and sec hit. Victim ends up with one badly wrecked freighter with a very large ISK repair bill. <rabble> On another thought... maybe this game has "jumped the shark" and is now in decline. I think things were better when a battleship was THE thing to aspire to. Now they are disposable. How long before we see spaceships the size of frickin' planets eating each other up? OR galaxies even? "ZOMGLOLWTF SOME N00B WARPED INTO MY GALAXY AND SCOOPED UP ELEVENTY DOZEN STAR SYSTEMS!!11" </rabble>
Lubomir Penev Gallente Dark Nexxus Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.05.07 12:56:00 - [336] Originally by: Ki An I know I said I was done with this thread, but this is an area in which I am quite good, given that I am a part time ore thief and high sec ganker. Let's go over the basics: Ore thief steals ore. He gets flagged to the owner of the can and the owner's whole corp unless the owner is in an NPC corp. If the owner of the can shoots at the ore thief, the ore thief and he alone can shoot back at the owner. That is, no one else can interfere on the ore thief's behalf. It's the same with wrecks. A freighter gets popped. The escorts guarding the wrecks can shoot anyone stealing from the wreck. Those that get shot at can shoot back, but anyone who isn't fired upon cannot shoot at the guards. This means that even if there are 10 battleships, all stealing from the wreck, the guards can finish them off one at a time without any possible interference from any of the others. Not even if they are all in the same corp or ganged. I used to steal from macrominers a lot. Guess what they used to steal back their ore? A shuttle. Freighter gankers will do the same, and if one of your two gankathron steal back he will be promptly WTFBBQed by the backup team of the gankers. Your idea just doesn't work.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:09:00 - [337] Originally by: Ha'Uler Congratulations, your excessive whining has gotten this nerfed on Singularity. CONCORD now kills drones and their damage ignores resistances. Highsec is absolutely, perfectly safe now. It is the same upgrade that CCP has done for the NPC AI in missions, so I dubt that is was made specifically in reaction to this and similar threads. It is some week that NPC kill drones, it was time CONCORD upgraded too.
Thesas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:14:00 - [338] Originally by: Andreas Kallesoee Give the freighter pilots a choise of fitting a huge nuke in their cargo taking up... lets say 50K m3 and that insures that everything in the hold blows up if you are popped I like that idea. If I am to lose all assets.. and I would.. as at this stage in my game I can not afford to lose the ships I fly, I would greatly enjoy being at ground zero watching all around me explode with me.. That would make starting over well worth it.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.07 13:57:00 - [339] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 07/05/2007 14:06:15 In response to a "don't remove insurance from Concordokkened ships" posting: Originally by: Mecinia Lua I don't see how it would discourage hi sec ganking. Its basically asking those of your viewpoint to accept the same rule you are saying the freighter pilots have to accept. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. pwned -- CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.05.07 14:08:00 - [340] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 07/05/2007 14:05:11 Originally by: Lubomir Penev I used to steal from macrominers a lot. Guess what they used to steal back their ore? A shuttle. Hm ... so they stole back their ore in a shuttle before you could get a ship in to transport it off? Thats either VERY smart macros, or omfg maybe no macro at all?? -- CCP: PLEASE fix the forum software - thanks.

Fubarski Caldari Centauri Project	Posted - 2007.05.07 15:19:00 - [341] If you haven't seen the video "Karma" by Outbreak, I suggest you do so before crying "OMG NERF IT". It displays the perfect reason why this should be allowed. Fubarski
Marcus Tedric Gallente Tedric Enterprises	Posted - 2007.05.07 15:21:00 - [342] This thread really has me - I really don't understand why people just don't want to 'play the game' and not try to change it all the time! Anyway - read the whole thread and contributed before..... I fly a Freighter too sometimes so it was of interest. I remember when they were introduced - they were brought in to carry Outpost Eggs - nothing more. However, we can use them for other things. Freighters have always been 'gankable' - just like anything else. The issue was that they were stopped from dropping loot because of the problems that caused - now that has been rectified - again, nothing has changed. Anyone who used freighters to carry expensive stuff in order to avoid being ganked was quite possibly exploiting - now that's been fixed too. "Trade will die" - rubbish! Trade will actually flourish more. What will be made more difficult, however, is the ability to take everything to Jita in big lumps - so trading will be more decentralised - good in so many ways. EVE is all about competition - it really does pit players against other players. I play it because I love it. I love it because what I do has meaning, has results and has risk for the reward. Enjoy it - embrace it - and for goodness sake PLAY it - as it is meant to be played. Don't cheat - don't 'metagame' (a word for cheats to try and justify cheating) - pit your wits against other people in a game that tests you in a fictional environment where you can try things out that don't affect RL - don't let the two touch.
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.07 16:18:00 - [343] Originally by: Marcus Tedric This thread really has me - I really don't understand why people just don't want to 'play the game' and not try to change it all the time! Anyway - read the whole thread and contributed before..... I fly a Freighter too sometimes so it was of interest. I remember when they were introduced - they were brought in to carry Outpost Eggs - nothing more. However, we can use them for other things. Freighters have always been 'gankable' - just like anything else. The issue was that they were stopped from dropping loot because of the problems that caused - now that has been rectified - again, nothing has changed. Anyone who used freighters to carry expensive stuff in order to avoid being ganked was quite possibly exploiting - now that's been fixed too. "Trade will die" - rubbish! Trade will actually flourish more. What will be made more difficult, however, is the ability to take everything to Jita in big lumps - so trading will be more decentralised - good in so many ways. EVE is all about competition - it really does pit players against other players. I play it because I love it. I love it because what I do has meaning, has results and has risk for the reward. Enjoy it - embrace it - and for goodness sake PLAY it - as it is meant to be played. Don't cheat - don't 'metagame' (a word for cheats to try and justify cheating) - pit your wits against other people in a game that tests you in a fictional environment where you can try things out that don't affect RL - don't let the two touch. True words. Sadly doomed to sink into the pit of petulance. A small fieldmouse - squeeking against the huricanes din of carebear crescendos. Trade profit will be put into the hands of the little man. Trade will be put in the hands of the many. Gank away my friends - gank away. SKUNK
Anna Grahm Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.07 17:24:00 - [344] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Mextor i can't be a$$ed to read all this, requires effort(read the corp name), but after reading some of this, freighters should now be given the ability to tank, but with special Freighter armor/shield mod, that can only be used on freighters and only put in Freighter slots, so ppl can't use expanders and the like to make the freighter haul more. Its prolly been said already but i'm saying it again. Freighters do have the ability to tank. /Ki You sound like the kind of **** that would suggest that homosexuals do have the "right" to marry, but they just have to marry someone they have no romantic interest in or love for. I am NOT an alt!
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.07 17:53:00 - [345] Originally by: Marquis Dean Originally by: Blind Man meh thats the way eve goes. ever since eve began safe space is meant to be 'SAFE' space not pvp=no zones. Then why were PRVTR nerfed? Privateers ruined the balance of PvP in Empire. Empire was supposed to be "mostly safe". Privateers made it "mostly unsafe". CCP made changes to move Empire back into the "mostly safe" range. Unless you're a freighter pilot that is.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.07 21:10:00 - [346] Originally by: Anna Grahm You sound like the kind of ** that would suggest that homosexuals do have the "right" to marry, but they just have to marry someone they have no romantic interest in or love for. Uhm... are you calling me a *-basher, or are you just being stupid? /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Dust Rocket	Posted - 2007.05.07 22:29:00 - [347] Ok lets say i have 100 items i have 2 escorts. Now Poof goes my freighter. And my 2 escorts start working(2 cause Ki sayed its inaff). In this point, (lets say i was lucky) i already lost 40% of my things. Warps in NPC shuttle. Flips one can. Gets blasted. Aproaches hauler,(cause can is shuttle owners now) scoops. ETC. U get the point (i hope). So whats the use of my escorts, they pop shuttles? How u counter this Ki or u just call me bear. PS. and yeah i stoped reading at page 6 cause it is noncense. Sry my english
Mac Creagors	Posted - 2007.05.07 22:42:00 - [348] Dolika is right this is the end of empire trading and people who do " high sec kamikazi attacks" should try open there brain's or something. It's you who pay in the loong run if you start popping frieghters in empire.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.07 22:59:00 - [349] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 07/05/2007 22:56:37 I think this is a good thing that freightor pilots can get ganked. Why? Firstly, to stop ******* freightor pilots like me running monopoly's and compeitive practices which squeeze the margins out of the little guys. I have done it, and I am pretty sure a lot of active traders have done it as well. Lets admit it, the sheer volume that can be carried makes it extreamly difficult for smaller, newer players to compeate in trading. I mean, gone are the days where you could just fill up a freightor with t2 gear from jita and afk it overnight to a hub near a warzone to resell. With freightors, the trading mentality is moving towards the superhub mentality. Some markets that used to be stocked now simply are not - there is no margin for little people to bother picking stuff up from obscure corners to bring back. Nothing is impossible, but now the bulk of trading will become more decentrelised, meaning that smaller, more agile traders will emerge. In a word - this is perhaps the best boost to getting new players into the trading aspect of eve. -- Billion Isk Mission
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.05.07 23:19:00 - [350] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 07/05/2007 23:21:57 Originally by: Siege Originally by: Maya Rkell Claiming ignorance of the near past is transparent. As I said.. And no, I don't flame. I happen to hold a viewpoint counter to that of your bias. And I'm not afraid to point out that it, unlike your argument, hangs together under critical analysis. So, then, what do you propose as a solution? Concord to destroy any attacking drones of offending ships. Very rapidly (about the time they target jam you). There's a reason - what I'd call an exploit if it were not only in CCP's power to call something such - why only a certain type of ship can pull off this type of attack, and that is wrong afaik. Cipher7, no, not everyone is involved in an ideology in this game, sorry. "If t2 prices get higher because of interdiction then good, that's capitalism in action." No, it's not. It's a inflation because of a deliberate design descision of CCP. "You make 100 freighter runs, lose 2, boohoo you lost %2 of your profit." Now this is just amusing. Hint: margin is not at all the same thing as total cost. 2 losses can wipe out many, many successful run's profit. Lord WarATron, except that that is, demonstably by past events not what happens. What keeps the smaller, newer players from competing is not freighters. It is the 1890's parallel production systems and the market order limits. It's a waste of time competing outside a narrow range of products, and the same factors have meant that there are no new hubs. The markets are shrinking because CCP insist on dealing the traders and sellers a bad hand again and again. Also, raw material hauling in freighters is something you overlook. //Maya

Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.07 23:42:00 - [351] Originally by: Dust Rocket Ok lets say i have 100 items i have 2 escorts. Now Poof goes my freighter. And my 2 escorts start working(2 cause Ki sayed its inaff). In this point, (lets say i was lucky) i already lost 40% of my things. Warps in NPC shuttle. Flips one can. Gets blasted. Aproaches hauler,(cause can is shuttle owners now) scoops. ETC. U get the point (i hope). So whats the use of my escorts, they pop shuttles? How u counter this Ki or u just call me bear. PS. and yeah i stoped reading at page 6 cause it is noncense. Sry my english shrugs I dunno, use your own shuttle and flip it back? It's a good point, but it's hardly impossible to counter. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Anna Grahm Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.08 07:11:00 - [352] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Anna Grahm You sound like the kind of ** that would suggest that homosexuals do have the "right" to marry, but they just have to marry someone they have no romantic interest in or love for. Uhm... are you calling me a *-basher, or are you just being stupid? /Ki None of the above. Just pointing out that your "logic" is the same type used by those that deny rights to homosexuals. Just because there's a technicality wherein one may tank (do capsules "tank," too?) doesn't mean it can be done effectively or is something that should even have to be done. I am NOT an alt!
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.08 07:30:00 - [353] Originally by: R0ze Originally by: Cipher7 Its the same with great games. If I die in WoW I don't give a schit. If I win I don't give a schit. It's meaningless. In Eve when I take a hauler full of a few hundred mil of stuff, my hands are shaking, I'm checking maps, I'm reading bios, I'm running scared, I love the sensation of fear. Thats what makes Eve a great piece of media. +1 Woah a sane post! this is getting out of hand! ISD raped my sig!
Dolika Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.08 11:06:00 - [354] Ki An as much as he wants to advocate his style of play which just got a whole lot easier has never ever tried building something or hauled big cargo loads across empire so he has no idea what he's talking about when talking about flying with 2 protection BSs around safe empire during a NO WAR times. I strongly disagree with the idea of trade hubs being bad for small traders. Highsec Gankers are bad for small traders. I can buy 60 T2 cloaks and stick them into my hauler and fit quite some tank also but on gate someone will scan me and suicide a few cruisers on me and 300M i just spent on cloaks in Jita and was going to sell for 500M in Torrinos and Esa just went up in smoke. I could have only bought 5 but that would mean im using 10% of ships capacity. What a waste of space. considering im hauling back pyerite which is cheap 2 jumps away from Esa to Jita and sell it there i cannot haul with a BS to keep it safe. Current state of market is extremely good for small business people. Supply in hubs is great and prices near rock bottom so anyone who wants to be a trader can drive up to Jita. Buy stuff and haul it near a warzone and make a bundle of isk. The bulk sellers can sell their stuff and everyone knows where best deals can be made. Be it pvp end users or resellers they all meet in a stock market kind of market in trade hubs where supply and demand and nothing else balance the prices. That's capitalism at it's best. Freighter gankage has nothing to do with capitalism because capitalism is about trade. Besides when 15 domis attack a freighter that's not pvp because freighter has no means of defense or offense. Smaller regional markets are not well stocked because there is no demand. I could put everyting i got on market in Aclan or Gyng because markets there are not as good as the hub markets are. I have tried but it simply does not work. Took me months to sell 10 items of one kind at a price similar to Jita whereas in trade hubs thousands change hands daily. there is LOTS of margin for small traders to fill the gaps. Belive me i've been playing on the market since the start and i see a sea of small opportunities but since im frying bigger fish i dont have time to move 20M worth of stuff in a hauler for 6M profit for a 2 jump trip. Afaik CCP has already removed all roid belts from 1.0 systems and that did not curb the enthusiasm of people. Remove all agents from hubs also. Let people gather there for trade. CCP can make a story arc out of this saying that immense trade done in trade hubs and the consequential taxes gathered contributed to the fact population in those places doesn't have to work because of the abundance of isk and remove agents etc...Maybe tighten the security and ban wars in those places to ease the server load... Many many people gather in trade hubs and they are the places the most player interaction happens. Be it through trade or pvp. Jita has alway been the biggest red spot on the map when it comes to "ships killed in last 24h" If anyone want to gank a freighter in areas where pvp is allowed one can do that easily enough. It took me 38 seconds to die and even if HP would be tripled a determined force of 15 domis would still take only about a minute to pop a freighter which is still an appalingly small amount of time to take down a capital ship. I'll point out a few trade tips in my next post as this one has nearly maxed out in longwindedness ;)
Dolika Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.08 11:53:00 - [355] Dolika's trade tips: Robotics!!! Yes. That's a NPC thingy. You can buy nearly an unlimited amount in batches of 22.000 units in Citadel region @ approx 6900 isk per unit. Haul that to Jita 4-4 and sell it for 7800 isk per unit in a day. You'll have to update your sell order a few times to keep ahead of competition but literally HUNDREDS of millions of isk can be made DAILY because in Forge region there is, if i remember correctly 300-600 thousand units sold every day and a good part of that falls on Jita 4-4. I have not done a thorough market research but the same strategy should be possible with all NPC goods that are used in T2 production. LARGE ARTILLERY BATTERY!!! Yup another NPC thingy. You can buy it for 10,25M near Rens and sell it for 12,8M in Jita. It used to be 25M in Jita and i made nearly a billion isk only selling that. LARGE AUTOCANNON BATTERY!!! Price is a bit different that artie and amount sold is a bit smaller but it will still turn 15-20% profit. HELIUM ISOTOPES. I've made hundreds of millions buying those in Amarr and hauling them to RENS, JITA and ESA. I've left that business a while ago but the lack of income was not the reason. NITROGEN, OXYGEN and HYDROGEN isotopes. Do a market research and buy where they are cheapest and sell where they cost the most. Lots of isk to be made there. T2 POS materials like fernite, carbonide, titanium etc carbide and the rest of that product group also have loads of possibilities for aspiring traders. The supply is very unbalanced and it is on the traders to balance it out. GIANT SECURE CONTAINERS!!! Another NPC thing. You can buy them in nearly unlimited amounts almost anywhere for 274k isk. There is a place where supply is nil and demand is about 200-500 a month. That place is called ESA. You can sell GSC's there for 369k atm but i used to sell them for 999.999 isk p/u and they sold like hotcakes. Still if you are a newb and can haul 3 at a time in an itty 3 you'll still make 300k per trip and learn a valuable lesson in trading. I am not sure about Torrinos but if i remember correctly it's the same deal as ESA basically. R.A.M.s. Markets are outright starving for these items. R.A.M. robotics BPO costs 282k on the market. One unit costs about 30k to build and R.A.M. Robotics for example you will be able to sell in jita for 100k isk in a heartbeat. That's 330% markup for a bloody T1 item. Only a handful of T2 have such a big margin. You see a particular item on market and the difference between buy orders and sell orders is big. Big would be more than 25%. That's a fountain of free isk for those who know how the market works. Simpy outbid the highest buy order by .01 isk p/u and wait for it to start filling. You can then simply put the item back on the market in the same place .01 isk under the lowest sell order. Because the gap is say 30% you will be earning almost 30% profit margin for very little effort. Surely the gap will close but you will have moved to another item already. T1 nanofiber and cargo hold expander production has also been a business with immense markups. One costs like 2000 isk to build even if the builder has PE 0. A ME 0 BPO is already a perfect ME for both so it's instantly ready for production. Last i remembered expanded cargo holds sold for 5k and nanos for 9k. That's a major markup for anyone. Sure it's a small profit overall but if youre a 2 days old noob that's a lot of isk. 250mm T1 light artillery used to be a good profit maker also... All the above can be done on a large scale in a freighter or in a smaller scale in an iteron 3. the principle is the same and while a freighter pilot will obviously earn way more his investment is also about 2000 ( TWO THOUSAND ) times bigger because itty 3 with 3*T1 expanders costs 500k and freighter sets you back 980M atm. (Jita price). All these strategies are made obsolete if anyone can blow you up anywhere for basically no penalty to the agressor. Fix the freighters
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.05.08 12:04:00 - [356] I wonder how many carebear whines it takes for CCP to nerf this? Your not supposed to be entirely safe - if it takes over 10 BS to kill you before the cops come, thats 9 more than it takes people to beat on you before the cops come in RL - and in eve, the bad guys don't get away.... If you can afford freighters, you can afford to be in a corp, with members who can scout ahead to see if your about to jump into a 15 man gank fest. Sorry you lost your stuff, but thats eve - why CCP should cater to the people to lazy (or too greedy to share profits) with other players is beyond me....
Dolika Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.08 12:15:00 - [357] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Sorry you lost your stuff, but thats eve - why CCP should cater to the people to lazy (or too greedy to share profits) with other players is beyond me.... WTF? Did you read the post above yours? BTW. No carebears = no supply of ships or modules or basically anything so everyone can take the pvp to the new level -> forums; like many do already To use your argument against you: Why would i hand over free T2 stuff to you if your only motivation to play eve is to make life miserable for players like myself who dont pvp 100% of the time. P.s. I have over 80 pvp kills to my name. Most of them solo or against bad odds.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.08 12:41:00 - [358] Edited by: Ki An on 08/05/2007 12:37:21 Originally by: Dolika BTW. No carebears = no supply of ships or modules or basically anything so everyone can take the pvp to the new level -> forums; like many do already I keep coming back to this thread for some reason... The quote above is a common mistake made by carebears. You think EvE needs you. Well, it doesn't. Fact is, most industrialists aren't carebears. I have three accounts, one of which is an industrial account, so yeah, I know what I'm talking about because I play all aspects of this game. You, on the other hand, are a carebear. A carebear is someone who constantly tries to change the game to make it easier for him, not caring about the good of the game, or about the other people playing. You, sir, or madame, are a carebear, and you are NOT needed in EvE. Kindly stfu and adapt, or gtfo of my game! /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.05.08 12:55:00 - [359] Edited by: Chrysalis D''lilth on 08/05/2007 12:52:42 Originally by: Dolika WTF? Did you read the post above yours? BTW. No carebears = no supply of ships or modules or basically anything so everyone can take the pvp to the new level -> forums; like many do already To use your argument against you: Why would i hand over free T2 stuff to you if your only motivation to play eve is to make life miserable for players like myself who dont pvp 100% of the time. P.s. I have over 80 pvp kills to my name. Most of them solo or against bad odds. I never asked you for free T2 stuff, nor will I. My corp makes almost all the T2 items I need besides ships, so my purchasing of T2 items isn't huge anyway (I sell far more T2 items that I myself make than I'll ever use). Even those items i don't buy from corp mates, I purchase on the free market - read that ? purchase - meaning they aren't given to me, they are sold to me at a price the market decides caters to supply vs demand. I hate bursting your little bubble here, but pvpers don't 'need' industrial players - Yes, industrial players mean things are sold cheaper, but don't for one second disillusion yourself into believing this game would grind to a halt without you. And before you say it - I didn't ever claim that industrial players need pvpers , but we aren't the ones whining here in the hopes CCP yet again give into your cry baby demands. I do imagine without the thousands of ships being blown up daily by us it would lead to a much dryer market.
Dolika Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.05.08 13:17:00 - [360] Edited by: Dolika on 08/05/2007 13:15:31 Where have i hear the story about pvpers not needing the carebears and carebears not needing the pvpers? Hmmm... Was it the olde CA who was 100% pvp and crumbled? Was it the olde XETIC that crumbled because it was nearly all carebears... Was it the olde -5- who were all pvpers carebear haters and are no more... List goes on. Go the the graveyard of the alliances of the olde and see for yourself. Surely you will not say you enyoy mining 7 Million units of tritanium for your new BS... Some carebear had to do it... Were there no players who specialise in hoarding stuff to make other people gaming experience better EvE would be where RL was 3000 years ago when everyone produced what they used. P.s. 80+ kills made by me should qualify me as a semi-pvper ;). P.s.s. You're derailing the debate



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