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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:01:00 -
[1]
I've never really been ineterested in the topic however I'd like ot know abit about why EVE lags in major sausage fests. I know that 1000 players in a fight will lag but just why.
I'f I'm correct the requirments for playing EVE is to have an internet connection of at least 28.5kps modem or whatever so I doubt it is server side. Or?
If there is an official post on the matter please redirect me, thanks.
Pwnage PvP Recruitment
\m/ Metal Head \m/ |
ry ry
StateCorp
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:06:00 -
[2]
i honestly wanted to answer sensibly, but your sig was so ******* repulsive i couldn't concentrate long enough to read your post. sorry.
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Ryas Nia
Minmatar
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:07:00 -
[3]
biggest source of lag IMO is the client and UI. The UI causes such a huge hit to performance that the littlest thing can cause the client to lag up.
Recruiting Terrorists |
Dungheap
Caldari
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:07:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dungheap on 14/05/2007 13:56:27
err.. cuz of double posting on the forums and sucking up all the bandwidth? 
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Freya Selene
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:12:00 -
[5]
Most is server sided.
For example if you have a fleet of 100 man who jumps into a new system. During uncloak the servernode on witch the system runs (per node you have a few systems i can only assume) has to recalculate all gang bonuses per person and send this back to all clients.
As well if there is an enemy fleet waiting, this information has to be send to every member of the fleet that just jumped in.
Not to mention what happends if all 200 (100 man each side) launches 5 drones each.....
Lag is caused by the waittime untill you recieve all information needed to show everything on your screen.
Freya is a goddess of love and fertility, and the most beautiful and propitious of the goddesses. |
Thommy
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:13:00 -
[6]
1000 players in a fight
This means player 1 has to recieve location, any effects (guns/web/jam/ecm etc) from all the other players.
The same for all the other 999 players which means there is a continues stream of 999 other players updated positions / actions send to your client.
Eve client can only handle 1 thing at a time so it works off player per player which means the more players there are the longer it takes.
It is an accumulateing effect that gets stronger and stronger for each new player / effect ariving in the combat zone.
In this case it can be:
- server side (to much to process at once).
- connection related (to little bandwidth for to much data at once).
- client side related (to many little details to process which prevents the client from being ready at the next update cycle aka freeze).
Guide to fix eve problems.
Cleanup your cache with my cache tool |
Ashermoor
Caldari
Royal Manticoran Navy
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:16:00 -
[7]
i had yesterday almost same problem, i docked into JITA station i need buy 4 items , it tooks about 25 minutes Shocked and when i want to undock it was imposible i push undock buttoooooon and 45minutes black screen. Try restart nothing, so yesterday i played EVE in black screen mod - probably some new feature for HW performance Twisted Evil
*snip* Signiture is not eve related - hutch |
Alakazam
Bob The Builder
Breidablik
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:20:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Kaeten
I've never really been ineterested in the topic however I'd like ot know abit about why EVE lags in major sausage fests. I know that 1000 players in a fight will lag but just why.
I'f I'm correct the requirments for playing EVE is to have an internet connection of at least 28.5kps modem or whatever so I doubt it is server side. Or?
If there is an official post on the matter please redirect me, thanks.
Actually! That's a very good question. I'd like to read what CCP thinks about this. I think their current architecture could give some explanations to why it lags. But it's difficult to talk about lag without classifying the different types of lag that exist in the game and understanding that.
But currently I think it is related to how the current architecture handles sending data to multiple clients simultaneusly. Remember it's a multi player game, so not only does it need to seend a burst of data when you meet your oponents containing information about their ships/structures etc but it needs to do this as the universe/grid evolves during this meeting (adding structures/ships/removing them) and it also needs to update your client at a sensible rate. Is this done async'd or synchronized?
So many questions, so many different solutions!
I think this is something CCP discusses every day---they must have access to some of the best resources in this area:)
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Freya Selene
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ashermoor
i had yesterday almost same problem, i docked into JITA station i need buy 4 items , it tooks about 25 minutes Shocked and when i want to undock it was imposible i push undock buttoooooon and 45minutes black screen. Try restart nothing, so yesterday i played EVE in black screen mod - probably some new feature for HW performance Twisted Evil
Sounds more client based, as in your system unable to work trough the data. With this a package of data in a loophole, that could explain your 45min delay.
In early days of Eve i ran on a P4, 2.4Mhz a not to top of the notch client. I had alot of freezes and lag issues untill i bought a bether graphic card and updated all drivers (strange anough, audio driver gave best gain!!). As well changing the WinXP swapfile (cant remember to what). Seems if you ran 2Gb memory the client went mofo. Running one client where a disaster, while running two clients it where rather steady.
Nowadays i run on Intel Core2Duo rather tweaked, Nvidia 7600 video and 2Gb mem (fast) and it runs like mad. No problem in handeling 2 clients widescreen (1440x900?). gotha say tho iam using 2x 76Gb high rpm SATA300 drives in RAID-0 configuration as main drive where Eve is installed.
Freya is a goddess of love and fertility, and the most beautiful and propitious of the goddesses. |
darklegionca
Caldari
Blood Eagle Federation
Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:41:00 -
[10]
eve lags because you touch yourself
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darklegionca - One name. One legend. |
Daniella Althera
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:54:00 -
[11]
EVE lags...
...on client side because of shoddy patch-style coding. Requires client rewrite which apparently is coming.
...on server side for various reasons which have been discussed among other places a lot on kugutsumen.com's Tech Support Haus subforum by both enthutiasists and professionals.
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WhitePhantom
Gallente
Edenists
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kaeten
I've never really been ineterested in the topic however I'd like ot know abit about why EVE lags in major sausage fests. I know that 1000 players in a fight will lag but just why.
I'f I'm correct the requirments for playing EVE is to have an internet connection of at least 28.5kps modem or whatever so I doubt it is server side. Or?
If there is an official post on the matter please redirect me, thanks.
The internet will always have lag, as long as there is data larger then the speed of said internet. Unless we come up with a solution to that problem, then we will always have "download times" which can be connected to lag.
Sort of like the "What came first the chicken or the egg?" question 
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sallyr
Gallente
Mithril Inc
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:01:00 -
[13]
you know i havent actualy played a mmo that hasnt lagged at some point, eve for the most part is one of the better ones.
but when it does lag, it goes SO **** up that its just not funny!
anyone remember the invisable fleet phaze?
Resistance is Futile
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:02:00 -
[14]
If I understand it right, if you have n people in one area, each person arriving needs to receive data from the other n-1 people, such as speed, position, effects. If a n+1th person arrives, then he has to receive n chunks of data, but the other people only need to download one more chunk of data each.
So if I'm right (which I'm probably not), then the amount of latency will be proportional to [(n-1)!+n] in a group of n people. That's worse than exponential (which is bad).
I know nothing about computers though, so feel free to correct me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Beer is my religion. Guinness is my God. |
Pewpewdude
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: darklegionca
eve lags because you touch yourself
testify!
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darklegionca
Caldari
Blood Eagle Federation
Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:11:00 -
[16]
Edited by: darklegionca on 14/05/2007 13:10:22
Originally by: Pewpewdude
Originally by: darklegionca
eve lags because you touch yourself
testify!
well no one else was going to tell him the actual truth so i had to slam the cold hard fact right in his face
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darklegionca - One name. One legend. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:15:00 -
[17]
Lag? 
Help me help you. |
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Ashermoor
Caldari
Royal Manticoran Navy
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Freya Selene
Originally by: Ashermoor
i had yesterday almost same problem, i docked into JITA station i need buy 4 items , it tooks about 25 minutes Shocked and when i want to undock it was imposible i push undock buttoooooon and 45minutes black screen. Try restart nothing, so yesterday i played EVE in black screen mod - probably some new feature for HW performance Twisted Evil
Sounds more client based, as in your system unable to work trough the data. With this a package of data in a loophole, that could explain your 45min delay.
In early days of Eve i ran on a P4, 2.4Mhz a not to top of the notch client. I had alot of freezes and lag issues untill i bought a bether graphic card and updated all drivers (strange anough, audio driver gave best gain!!). As well changing the WinXP swapfile (cant remember to what). Seems if you ran 2Gb memory the client went mofo. Running one client where a disaster, while running two clients it where rather steady.
Nowadays i run on Intel Core2Duo rather tweaked, Nvidia 7600 video and 2Gb mem (fast) and it runs like mad. No problem in handeling 2 clients widescreen (1440x900?). gotha say tho iam using 2x 76Gb high rpm SATA300 drives in RAID-0 configuration as main drive where Eve is installed.
Strange that i had never such problems before, PC is not bad AMD3200+, 2GBs dual, 10kround SATA hdd,PX7600GT is not supreme graphic but still running EvE about 60-80fps with no problem....running only one client. Internet connection was ok i tested during waiting if i can surf web with no problems.... So i hope it was only some "sun disturbance upset"
*snip* Signiture is not eve related - hutch |
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:42:00 -
[19]
one word: Eistein. Him and his stupid theory of relativity, if only they had never allowed him to put a speed limit on light. The spoilsport.
F4T4L Recruitment |
Solbright
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:44:00 -
[20]
Well, I guess I'm obliged to post here ... Lag happens, true. But is it lag that you are concerned about?
If you are refering to the display freezing up for short periods making it hard to click on objects and bring up menus and so on, then your concern is not with lag.
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Kassandra Tillman
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Posted - 2007.05.15 13:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kaeten
I've never really been ineterested in the topic however I'd like ot know abit about why EVE lags in major sausage fests. I know that 1000 players in a fight will lag but just why.
I'f I'm correct the requirments for playing EVE is to have an internet connection of at least 28.5kps modem or whatever so I doubt it is server side. Or?
If there is an official post on the matter please redirect me, thanks.
the majority of the game has no lag, but big fights and of course jita can get silly lag
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Adaris
Dark and Light inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.15 15:41:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Freya Selene
Most is server sided.
For example if you have a fleet of 100 man who jumps into a new system. During uncloak the servernode on witch the system runs (per node you have a few systems i can only assume) has to recalculate all gang bonuses per person and send this back to all clients.
As well if there is an enemy fleet waiting, this information has to be send to every member of the fleet that just jumped in.
Not to mention what happends if all 200 (100 man each side) launches 5 drones each.....
Lag is caused by the waittime untill you recieve all information needed to show everything on your screen.
So it specifically a hardware problem (if I read that right)... am I a little innocent to dare ask:
a) can they get better nodes/pcs?
b) would it be a tremendous strain if they overhaul the node system so they could devise a new better system now that the game has a much bigger playerbase than the original beta days when they made that system
* * *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euZ0j7vtKEQ
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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.15 16:59:00 -
[23]
@Kaeten> Wheren't you the guy that have this damn funny pic as a signature with a hamster on a toy ship saying "Realz piwate have hamsters" or not ? I prefered this sig :)
EvE lags because of many factors, I can't be solved by just saying "hey look, we'll get 46431 TBps to all players and that'll be okay". There's client lag, server lag, "the guys playing from Kujuak" lag, market lag, objet lag and the mysterious and shamed database lag.
I forgot the python lag (hmm, let's have an interpreter language for online games, because, err, i don't know any other languages), the blob lag, the mean net lag, the lag who stays on the server because well you don't know, the ennemizzareherezomglag, the beer lag AND the node lag.
Oh.
We have also the pos lag, the model lag, the sound lag, the effect lag, the TeamSpeak that eat all your bandwidth lag, the phone lag...
(3 hours later)
...the guysareblobingasystemyoudon'tknowwhereitisbutisonthesamenode lag, the game architecture lag, the login lag, the ratlag, the damnidon'tpayedmyinternetbill lag, the Jita lag...
etc etc
-----
History is made by whinners
Originally by: DB Preacher
(...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.05.15 17:00:00 -
[24]
Eve lags because your screen doesnt update at least 25 pictures per second. 
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.15 17:05:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Adaris
(...)
Damn your posted youtube in your sig is funny as hell :)
-----
History is made by whinners
Originally by: DB Preacher
(...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.05.15 22:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Eve lags because your screen doesnt update at least 25 pictures per second.
That's a symptom not a cause. And what's more, it's not a symptom of lag. It's the one sure symptom that says lag is not the problem.
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MissileRus
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:51:00 -
[27]
id say its the monitors fault! *now has excuse to get a 22" widescreen* 
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4. i like pizza |
Alpha Prime
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.15 23:55:00 -
[28]
EVE will not survive 1 more year if this keeps up.
CCP gives us ships to support epic huge fights, but the
hardware cant handle it.
Sad really, cuz its a nice game
Bob farted, ASCN burped. And then there was a Nodecrash
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Solbright
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Posted - 2007.05.16 00:12:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Solbright on 16/05/2007 00:12:49
Originally by: Alpha Prime
CCP gives us ships to support epic huge fights, but the hardware cant handle it.
What hardware do you mean?
I'd be inclined to say it's the software with the problem, not the hardware. There is more than enough hardware resources at both ends.
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.05.16 00:37:00 -
[30]
256k miniumu id recommend
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