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Heres what 0.0 combat has devolved to.

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ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.05.15 17:01:00 - [1] Those with titans, and those without titans. Those with titans will wander around with normal ships and zerg their enemies with 6-1 odds at gate camps. OK so you don't have a titan but you can bust their gatecamp without titans so you go to kill them by conventional means, however you can. Often, especially if they are higher skillpoint players, this requires bringing at least even numbers and possibly more. Usually if its lower SP pilots vs higher SP pilots, this demands the lower SP pilots bring a more expensive setup, or simply more pilots, whatever. We are not talking about player skill here, we're talking efficiency and math. Well what happens when they just quickly warp out and import a titan? Boom, you lose all your ships (the slower ones anyways), they lose none, they go right back to gatecamping. And this can go on forever if they have many titans. Or how about the demise of a support fleets role in capital siege warfare. You get a bunch of capitals in an area, you start sieging, you park a titan there, hooray, you are sub-capital immune. You have the anti-everything-smaller-than-a-dread command module installed. ... I don't think anyone thinks a titan should be weak, I just don't think they should nullify every non-capital role in fleet combat. Devs talk about nerfs to the different properties of a doomsday device. What about the role? Its performing its role fine right now, its insta-popping entire non-capital fleets. Instead of looking at the properties, perhaps look at the point? What exactly is the problem? If the role of insta-popping entire non-capital fleets is fair and balanced and should be in the game, then leave DDDs alone and let everyone get bored of eve and leave. Otherwise reevaluate wtf it is that titans should do. Yeah they should be powerful scary expensive beasts. Do they have to do all of that in one button press every 30 minutes? I'm just getting bored is all. I want a fight. I can't get fights anymore. Basically I don't think titans are a problem. The huge behemoths wandering the cosmos don't scare me. They aren't gonna blow a 30min cooldown on me, I'll go shoot them I dont care. Bring it on. I just don't think titans should do all of their ownage, by themselves, in one keypress, instantly every 30minutes. I AM saying that DDDs are the problem. If its overpowered with a 30 second cooldown, then its overpowered with a 30 minute cooldown, then its overpowered with a 6 hour cooldown, its overpowered with a week cooldown. DDDs are overpowered.
Morrigan Starlover	Posted - 2007.05.16 03:36:00 - [2] This is a brilliant post, ForumPosterAlt. Whoever you main is, he is a brilliant and handsome poster.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.16 03:44:00 - [3] You know what PVP has devolved to? Those with guns, and people without guns. My Ibis-flying corporation has no chance against all those veterans flying armed Ospreys. Their three turrets will kill us any time, and I think they even can launch a drone. Even as my most experienced friends fly their heavy covetors into battle, we're no match. If a gun on a condor can beat any number of my ibis's, it's unfair. Even if the recharge time for those guns is 3 seconds, 30 seconds, or 30 hours, they can still beat me while my mining L-A-S-E-Rs fail to harm them. I have lasers after all! This is so unfair. I want a fight. I can't get fights anymore. The ability to arm your ships prevents anyone who uses mining lasers from ever posing a threat. Our ships get Eventua-popped mercilessly, and it's not balanced if they only have to hit F1 to kill us in a few minutes. I'm not saying frigates or even cruisers are the problem. I'm saying 75mm Railguns are the problem. ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! Eve Tribune
Hexman Cryo Crypt inc. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.16 03:46:00 - [4] They're not overpowered - They're just in the wrong game. Devs forgot the idea was for a Doom 5 game and it was to be called the RBFG (Really Big [insert you know what here] gun) And to the above poster - Go troll somewhere else, please.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.16 03:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Hexman They're not overpowered - They're just in the wrong game. Devs forgot the idea was for a Doom 5 game and it was to be called the RBFG (Really Big [insert you know what here] gun) And to the above poster - Go troll somewhere else, please. Hardly a troll. The matter of the fact is, there is a way to balance something. The OP hates DDD so much, that 'nothing' will make it balanced. That's not a rational angle. If something's unbalanced with an X cost to fire, and a Y recharge, then adjust that until it /is/ balanced. Or some other factor. ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! Eve Tribune
Leonard Darwin Rosewood Productions	Posted - 2007.05.16 04:14:00 - [6] Edited by: Leonard Darwin on 16/05/2007 04:14:31 I believe he said DDD was balanced in respect to its role. You don't need to change anything if you aren't going to change the role. If its purpose is to neutralize support fleets - it does an awesome job at that. As he said, making the recharge 2 hours, 1 day, or 2 weeks isn't going to change or help anything. And nerfing its damage makes its role useless. I'd have to agree with the OP. Good point. Change the role to balance it. Personally, I'd like to see it act more as a mobile station. Perhaps able to erect forcefields on a whim to temporarily protect fleets. Idunno, it needs looked into regardless.
Father Weebles North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.16 04:18:00 - [7] PVP is all about alliance blobbing, or small corp speed roaming. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465085
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.16 04:53:00 - [8] I hate to say it, but I guess I agree. My side has the advantage right now because of them, but Titans have made me useless as a support pilot, and I can't fly a capital ship for another year or so. If there are titans in the area of engagement there is really no reason for me to show up except to add to the already horrible lag.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.05.16 05:29:00 - [9] why do they have to deal this indiscriminate damage anyway... some giant 250km ecm thingy would have been cute enough minnie: everything in it gets +20% signature/doomsielvl amarr: everything -10% cap recharge/lvl caldari: everything -10% all resistances/lvl gallente: shrug everything -15% targeting speed&range/lvl stupid ideas, i know - but anything is better than that multi-one-shot thingy - "Ready for your... sponge bath?"
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.16 06:05:00 - [10] it becomes a race to the top titans are getting a nerf and carriers are gettign a boost in next patch

umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.16 06:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Roemy Schneider why do they have to deal this indiscriminate damage anyway... some giant 250km ecm thingy would have been cute enough minnie: everything in it gets +20% signature/doomsielvl amarr: everything -10% cap recharge/lvl caldari: everything -10% all resistances/lvl gallente: shrug everything -15% targeting speed&range/lvl stupid ideas, i know - but anything is better than that multi-one-shot thingy 250km dictor sphere with a random dampening effect on each ship, 1-3 damps worth ramdomly... whats the effect of this? no more aligning sniper fleets with people warping off as soon as they are targetted... and no more power ball (the new bombs dont seem like a good idea to me... especially the carriers remote ecm burst thing.. if 1 carrier can take out 1 blob... 50 carriers can ??? And the dampening effect would mean the super long range power ball is ****** because all its members now have weird targetting ranges and its not easy to insta pop a primary with peoples targetting speeds getting freaky... I've fought titans many.. many times and they do make support fleets useless. To those in bob and elsewhere who say "work around them, we do" you dont. You've faced 1 titan, we've faced more... its not good when theres 1 titan cloaked somewhere in the system... and when theres more in jump range people stop trying to fight back. Titans + the remote ecm bursts will be bad in my opinion because... you cant get away with taking on a sieging force with bs's anymore... look back before titans, if you couldnt match the enemys cap fleet you get sniper bs and you warp in, snipe em, warp out, it was possible to kill dreads this way if their support didnt respond quickly. Now the titan will simply wait until the fight is fully under way... the enemy fleet hits warp and the titan decloaks and dds... then sits there and tanks the survivors and has a laugh... then jumps to safety. Bubbles wont fix this. At all. I've said what i think is wrong with them, and i've covered my experiences. I have also outlined a possible solution/change. The OP has brought up a valid point about titans and DDs. I think its time for a real change to titans.. not just nerf/boost.
Aleranie	Posted - 2007.05.16 08:01:00 - [12] Aren't they removing remote Dooms-Day anyways? So if they want to DD they have to be on-grid.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 08:34:00 - [13] Support fleets are absolutely essential in even a capital slugfest, should never ever leave home without one. A titan does not nullify a support fleet at all, it does if there too scared to fight under its gaze. If the support fleet was tanked to the dd, thats even more dps and tackles, fighter killing ability or ewar on enemy carriers. Evolution of tactics, they either keep up or die P.s Ra are the only guys i have not seen complaing about dd's and have a guess why? They adapted and started to tank and stay alert ( gasp ). BoB vs the coalition of family values
Okkie2	Posted - 2007.05.16 08:38:00 - [14] Originally by: Aleranie Aren't they removing remote Dooms-Day anyways? So if they want to DD they have to be on-grid. Yes they are, it's all in the Dev Blog They are also planning to make the Titan more vulnerable to warp-scramblers
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.16 08:45:00 - [15] To the OP: Excellent description of the problem. CCP needs to rethink the titan as a whole. Imo, it should be a huge support craft - mobile station if you will - that lends benefits to your fleet. It should not be a fleet killer. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.16 08:48:00 - [16] well theres no going back on titans so CCP just have to adapt and tweak so bob and co dont become to powerful
Hinterwaeldler Aces and Eights Enterprises R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.16 08:49:00 - [17] Originally by: fire 59 P.s Ra are the only guys i have not seen complaing about dd's and have a guess why? They adapted and started to tank and stay alert ( gasp ). Are you sure they don't just log? You win some, you log some ...
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Aries Acheron You know what PVP has devolved to? Those with guns, and people without guns. My Ibis-flying corporation has no chance against all those veterans flying armed Ospreys. Their three turrets will kill us any time, and I think they even can launch a drone. Even as my most experienced friends fly their heavy covetors into battle, we're no match. If a gun on a condor can beat any number of my ibis's, it's unfair. Even if the recharge time for those guns is 3 seconds, 30 seconds, or 30 hours, they can still beat me while my mining L-A-S-E-Rs fail to harm them. I have lasers after all! This is so unfair. I want a fight. I can't get fights anymore. The ability to arm your ships prevents anyone who uses mining lasers from ever posing a threat. Our ships get Eventua-popped mercilessly, and it's not balanced if they only have to hit F1 to kill us in a few minutes. I'm not saying frigates or even cruisers are the problem. I'm saying 75mm Railguns are the problem. You don't have to kiss BoBs ass every day of your miserable life you know.
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:10:00 - [19] If you thought Eve was a game about personal skill you are mistaken. It's about planning and production. Either accept that or get lost. You know why caps are so powerful? Because otherwise the game turns into who can field the biggest blob. If there was no caps we'd be back to 300 man blobs camping each side of a gate and it would be a ******** lagfast. At least now if you have a 300 man blob you can either be organized or eat doomsday. Caps force you to either come correct or stay home, so lots of ppl choose to stay home. Myself, I've come to the conclusion that alliance pvp is garbage. I'm not down to grind isk like some hamster in a wheel to keep alliance #8742 in power to have its snot-nosed 19 year old leader talk down to me or tell me what to fly in between mandatory mining op days.
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:29:00 - [20] The OP has a very good point imo. Is the ROLE of a DDD what we want in the game ? Take a look at an alternative approach (topic hijack :-)): Linkage Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....

Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 16/05/2007 09:41:41 Originally by: Cipher7 Because otherwise the game turns into who can field the biggest blob. If there was no caps we'd be back to 300 man blobs camping each side of a gate and it would be a ******** lagfast. Agree, that's like it is. When it's not about poses and sovereignty, you can sometimes still have good non-blob non-capital fights. But basically that's consensual pvp. You can't force an alliance to fight, if you don't attack their poses. So when an alliance get their ass handed too often in small non-blob non-capital fights, they just don't take those fights anymore. They stay docked, until they get their blob or until the enemy leaves. --------------------------------------------- snip
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Cipher7 Because otherwise the game turns into who can field the biggest blob. If there was no caps we'd be back to 300 man blobs camping each side of a gate and it would be a ******** lagfast. But, isn't that where we are now? Now, whith capitals and super capitals? Today is the era of nodes, so stressed as to force CCP to put a local cap on systems. I'm not saying titans are responsible for this sort of super-blob warfare, but they sure as hell haven't reduced it. /Ki Remember, kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:49:00 - [23] The OP has a very strong point. His Corporation consists of people who can fly only ibis's, and as such, stands no chance against even a cruiser let alone a Titan. One may even argue that he has never undocked his ibis from the starter n00bcorp station. I wonder if CCP will boost ibis's so that they can take on Supercapitals. -- Billion Isk Mission
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.16 09:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Cipher7 At least now if you have a 300 man blob you can either be organized or eat doomsday. Caps force you to either come correct or stay home, so lots of ppl choose to stay home. Correction: You can stay home or eat doomsday. No organisation will help you much in this regard. If the other side has a Titan, there's no way to avoid it. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Weaponmaster	Posted - 2007.05.16 10:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Lord WarATron The OP has a very strong point. His Corporation consists of people who can fly only ibis's, and as such, stands no chance against even a cruiser let alone a Titan. One may even argue that he has never undocked his ibis from the starter n00bcorp station. I wonder if CCP will boost ibis's so that they can take on Supercapitals. 100 ibis can take down a battleship. 100 what can take down a titan? In other words: Ibis is to battleship as _____ is to titan. You can do it. Answer:________________
galia griffon	Posted - 2007.05.16 11:07:00 - [26]
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 11:58:00 - [27] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Cipher7 At least now if you have a 300 man blob you can either be organized or eat doomsday. Caps force you to either come correct or stay home, so lots of ppl choose to stay home. Correction: You can stay home or eat doomsday. No organisation will help you much in this regard. If the other side has a Titan, there's no way to avoid it. There are far more options than that, baiting, dodging, tanking, outmanuvering. We dodge and eat dd's a fair bit, you stay on your toes and don't just mindlessly blob up in one point. Why is it that some can fight under the gaze of titans and dd's but others feelthey cannot? I got nuked myself last night in that epic battle of 9-9 but it didn't bother me in the slightest, me and my ship served a purpose in the greater scheme of things and the battle was won so the sacrafice was worth it Staying at home and cowering behind the door isn't an option BoB vs the coalition of family values
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 12:00:00 - [28] Edited by: fire 59 on 16/05/2007 11:59:20 Edit - Lag double post BoB vs the coalition of family values
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.05.16 12:52:00 - [29] Originally by: fire 59 ...Why is it that some can fight under the gaze of titans and dd's but others feelthey cannot? Their metagaming skills aren't up to par with BoBs?
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.16 13:03:00 - [30] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Hugh Ruka Originally by: Cipher7 At least now if you have a 300 man blob you can either be organized or eat doomsday. Caps force you to either come correct or stay home, so lots of ppl choose to stay home. Correction: You can stay home or eat doomsday. No organisation will help you much in this regard. If the other side has a Titan, there's no way to avoid it. There are far more options than that, baiting, dodging, tanking, outmanuvering. We dodge and eat dd's a fair bit, you stay on your toes and don't just mindlessly blob up in one point. Why is it that some can fight under the gaze of titans and dd's but others feelthey cannot? I got nuked myself last night in that epic battle of 9-9 but it didn't bother me in the slightest, me and my ship served a purpose in the greater scheme of things and the battle was won so the sacrafice was worth it Staying at home and cowering behind the door isn't an option Because you want to win at all costs, and since you have more titans, you benefit more than others despite the downsides, so you ignore those? Under some circumstances, it will be possible to fight 'under a titan's gaze' as you put it so eloquently. But a weapon that can let a single guy decide a fleetbattle with one push of a button, and has an added bonus when its very laggy, and destroys the fun for a huge number of people (as evidenced by tons of posts on this forum and COAD, even by those who have titans on their side), is simply not good game design. And people eventually stop playing games they don't consider fun. Titans deserve to be strong, very strong. But they should not be a licence to destroy fun for so many people who used to enjoy PvP in 0.0 warfare. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected])



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