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Heres what 0.0 combat has devolved to.

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Celestal	Posted - 2007.05.16 13:12:00 - [31] Well Titans do their planned function very well . The story goes that when bob first fought the goonies they slayed them , then someone in bob asked the question " what happens when the zerg swarm is no longer in frigs but in battleships ? " And so titans entered the game , the rest is history (and history in the making ) . It is becoming a bit pointless to get involved in 0.0 pvp unless you pilot a cap cue for someone in the alliance with most titans/caps to post a reply to try convince you to fly non caps against them.
ForumPosterAlt	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:04:00 - [32] Originally by: fire 59 Support fleets are absolutely essential in even a capital slugfest, should never ever leave home without one. A titan does not nullify a support fleet at all, it does if there too scared to fight under its gaze. If the support fleet was tanked to the dd, thats even more dps and tackles, fighter killing ability or ewar on enemy carriers. Evolution of tactics, they either keep up or die P.s Ra are the only guys i have not seen complaing about dd's and have a guess why? They adapted and started to tank and stay alert ( gasp ). Kinda how your support fleet dodged evil thug's ddd yesterday? Oh thats right, you didn't. Cause theres this thing called horrible lag. Nice try though. Capital Ships Online.
max bygraves	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:12:00 - [33] Strange, I live in 0.0, have done for ages, and i havnt even seen one, I pvp in a BS regularly and have no problems. Just try not to get involved in the coalition v BoD fights.
Caol The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:38:00 - [34] Fret not. CCP has already reacted to the terrible imbalances they never thought would arise and on such occasions that Titans are used they actually slow the game down. Yes, quite a move of genius from our Icelandic patrons. In doing so, all ships are rendered useless and immobile - some are even rendered invisible; pod pilots term this effect "not loading the grid". Others, inexplicably, blow up!! a know bug of course which many a petition has been written about. Slowing down the server apparently reduces something called lag. An effect that can also slow the server down but being that this is completely unrelated to CCPs action of slowing the servers down should perhaps be discussed elsewhere. Originally by: ForumPosterAlt Those with titans will wander around with normal ships and zerg their enemies with 6-1 odds at gate camps. Coming soon: Ladbrokes IGB jump gate betting system. Fly safe.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:38:00 - [35] Originally by: ForumPosterAlt Originally by: fire 59 Support fleets are absolutely essential in even a capital slugfest, should never ever leave home without one. A titan does not nullify a support fleet at all, it does if there too scared to fight under its gaze. If the support fleet was tanked to the dd, thats even more dps and tackles, fighter killing ability or ewar on enemy carriers. Evolution of tactics, they either keep up or die P.s Ra are the only guys i have not seen complaing about dd's and have a guess why? They adapted and started to tank and stay alert ( gasp ). Kinda how your support fleet dodged evil thug's ddd yesterday? Oh thats right, you didn't. Cause theres this thing called horrible lag. Nice try though. Capital Ships Online. Nice try mate but the ones who dodged got back in and tackled, killed fighters, helped dmp and jam etc so point proven really. I got blasted fair and square and did not shed even a tiny tear, warped to a pos, grabbed a ship and gt back in there. what was the excuse again? BoB vs the coalition of family values
Mogrin	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:42:00 - [36] /brushes off shoulders Ok enough BoB hijacking. Lets free this thread of politics please. BoB is everything awesome and win. They are super skilled and win EvE. All praise BoB. Mandatory BoB appeasement completed. Corporation forum <--- that way Ok back to topic: DDD's Role DDDs, by design, are supposed to pop everything that can't tank 50,000 damage of a specific damage type, whatever that may be. More than one DDD, by design is supposed to pop everything except capitals and comedy battleships. I think we can agree on this. Then the debate is what the roles of these ships should be. 1) What it was before titans. 2) What it was before titans except now always be aligned, in vent/TS, and not lagged in order to pass a DDD fodder check, warp back, rinse and repeat for however many additional DDDs are on the field. 3) DDD fodder. 4) Don't bother and get a dread, go pirate/pve, or find another game if the previous options bore you. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
icechip Caldari INDF Shipyards	Posted - 2007.05.16 14:52:00 - [37] I think the DD should have to charge up first. Maybe have a strange aura around the ship letting ppl know hey look its charging up its DD let get out of here. So if your webbed/scramed, you might be in trouble, I dont think they should nerf it but it shouldnt be instant. [b]12 Million SP and still cant fly nothing--- [b]
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.16 15:17:00 - [38] ahhhhh.....I have lived in 0.0 for two years now....AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN A TITAN!!! "Oh cry me a river!!" Get off your lazy arse and build one if you think they are the 'superweapon' of the new eve. Stop makeing these stupid arse post with that stupid forum poster alt for christ sakes! Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 15:22:00 - [39] Originally by: Mogrin /brushes off shoulders Ok enough BoB hijacking. Lets free this thread of politics please. BoB is everything awesome and win. They are super skilled and win EvE. All praise BoB. Mandatory BoB appeasement completed. Corporation forum <--- that way Ok back to topic: DDD's Role DDDs, by design, are supposed to pop everything that can't tank 50,000 damage of a specific damage type, whatever that may be. More than one DDD, by design is supposed to pop everything except capitals and comedy battleships. I think we can agree on this. Then the debate is what the roles of these ships should be. 1) What it was before titans. 2) What it was before titans except now always be aligned, in vent/TS, and not lagged in order to pass a DDD fodder check, warp back, rinse and repeat for however many additional DDDs are on the field. 3) DDD fodder. 4) Don't bother and get a dread, go pirate/pve, or find another game if the previous options bore you. dude, get over yourself, i was discussing the options available, as per the discussion by the op. This is general discussion you know, if you don't like to talk, go away BoB vs the coalition of family values
Mogrin	Posted - 2007.05.16 15:25:00 - [40] Get over myself? Does every discussion have to be about BoB? Lemme do a quick search on you posting and see how "general" your posts are. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion

fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:05:00 - [41] Originally by: Mogrin Edited by: Mogrin on 16/05/2007 15:47:23 Get over myself? Does every discussion have to be about BoB? Lemme do a quick search on you posting and see how "general" your posts are. Yup as I thought, not very general when it comes to titans at all. Just political jibba jabba. Awaiting Lord WarATron. huh, political jibba jabba? I have exp with titans every day so it's not like i don't know what im talking about. Having looked over my last posts myself, i think you need glasses because they were factual and were topic related. Trolling for the sake of trolling mate, leave it for the caod yeah BoB vs the coalition of family values
Leonard Darwin Rosewood Productions	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:06:00 - [42] Originally by: Roshan longshot ahhhhh.....I have lived in 0.0 for two years now....AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN A TITAN!!! "Oh cry me a river!!" Get off your lazy arse and build one if you think they are the 'superweapon' of the new eve. Stop makeing these stupid arse post with that stupid forum poster alt for christ sakes! If you've never seen one, then really, you have zero experience to speak about them. You are the type of person that when something is broken or overpowered, instead of fixing the problem, your solution is for everyone to hop on the broke/overpowered train. How about, and this might be a hard one, we actually take a look at the issue of Titans. Or we could all move to your nice slice of Empire in 0.0 where it's Titan free. Seriously though, by your own admittance you don't have experience with titans, so stfu or go to a Nuclear Fission/Space Aeronautics/[Insert Other Topics You've No Experience With] and derail their threads and spare us.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:20:00 - [43] Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: Aries Acheron You know what PVP has devolved to? Those with guns, and people without guns. My Ibis-flying corporation has no chance against all those veterans flying armed Ospreys. Their three turrets will kill us any time, and I think they even can launch a drone. Even as my most experienced friends fly their heavy covetors into battle, we're no match. If a gun on a condor can beat any number of my ibis's, it's unfair. Even if the recharge time for those guns is 3 seconds, 30 seconds, or 30 hours, they can still beat me while my mining L-A-S-E-Rs fail to harm them. I have lasers after all! This is so unfair. I want a fight. I can't get fights anymore. The ability to arm your ships prevents anyone who uses mining lasers from ever posing a threat. Our ships get Eventua-popped mercilessly, and it's not balanced if they only have to hit F1 to kill us in a few minutes. I'm not saying frigates or even cruisers are the problem. I'm saying 75mm Railguns are the problem. You don't have to kiss BoBs ass every day of your miserable life you know. Last I checked, the Coalition has as many titans as BoB, and I've been hit by D2's Leviathan. I'm invalidating the OP's argument that DD is unbalanced no matter what, by saying there's always a way to balance. Of course, if you want to turn this into a 'You're not on my side, so you're wrong'... go ahead. See how much that detracts from any valid points you may make. :P ~~~ Action! Suspense! Jita! Eve Tribune
Veinnail Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:31:00 - [44] Originally by: Cipher7 I'm not down to grind isk like some hamster in a wheel to keep alliance #8742 in power to have its snot-nosed 19 year old leader talk down to me or tell me what to fly in between mandatory mining op days. sounds like an alliance we just left. lol cheers
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:31:00 - [45] Originally by: ForumPosterAlt ... whine ... So... let me get this right, you attempt to blob a gate camp... and they bring in the anti-blob weapon, which does exactly what its suppose to. How exactly is this not how its suppose to be? Titans aren't invincible, people just can't organize to chase them down. Maybe CCP could hold their hands by letting people hijack the enemies cyno and jump with the titan.
Jaffa Agonar Minmatar Mithril Inc	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:43:00 - [46] Edited by: Jaffa Agonar on 16/05/2007 16:41:52 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Titans aren't invincible They are by current ingame means. Short of great espionage, metagaming, or a drunk pilot - they are.
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:46:00 - [47] u cant technically lock em down and destroy em short of lag or other devious means theres no way of blowing em up
Terradoct Gallente shock-WAVE corp. Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:47:00 - [48] Someone did math in other thread, and by that math Bob need another 26 titans to kill any fleet, even the cap fleet, the only ships that could withstand that numbers of DD are Mothership or Titane
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.16 16:51:00 - [49] Originally by: Jaffa Agonar Edited by: Jaffa Agonar on 16/05/2007 16:41:52 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Titans aren't invincible They are by current ingame means. Short of great espionage, metagaming, or a drunk pilot - they are. So, they aren't invincible are they. Why don't you go ahead and try espionage, metagaming and liquoring up the pilots? People know the solutions, but refuse to implement them. Once again, I ask, how is this a problem?
Jaffa Agonar Minmatar Mithril Inc	Posted - 2007.05.16 17:14:00 - [50] Originally by: Derovius Vaden So, they aren't invincible are they. Why don't you go ahead and try espionage, metagaming and liquoring up the pilots? People know the solutions, but refuse to implement them. Once again, I ask, how is this a problem? I'm not sure whether I should be or atm. I guess we could steal Fluffy, the titan pilot's pet guinea pig and ransom it for the price of their titan's self destruction.

Bratilein	Posted - 2007.05.16 17:16:00 - [51] Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Jaffa Agonar Edited by: Jaffa Agonar on 16/05/2007 16:41:52 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Titans aren't invincible They are by current ingame means. Short of great espionage, metagaming, or a drunk pilot - they are. So, they aren't invincible are they. Why don't you go ahead and try espionage, metagaming and liquoring up the pilots? People know the solutions, but refuse to implement them. Once again, I ask, how is this a problem? You sir are a genius. We should play a game together, maybe you are better then me, but i will follow your suggestion and come to your house and beat you up. I mean, thats a solution to my problem right? Dont know why till today i refused to implement such solutions, its so easy. But maybe thats not "sporting" hm? See the point?
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.16 17:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Bratilein Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: Jaffa Agonar Edited by: Jaffa Agonar on 16/05/2007 16:41:52 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Titans aren't invincible They are by current ingame means. Short of great espionage, metagaming, or a drunk pilot - they are. So, they aren't invincible are they. Why don't you go ahead and try espionage, metagaming and liquoring up the pilots? People know the solutions, but refuse to implement them. Once again, I ask, how is this a problem? You sir are a genius. We should play a game together, maybe you are better then me, but i will follow your suggestion and come to your house and beat you up. I mean, thats a solution to my problem right? Dont know why till today i refused to implement such solutions, its so easy. But maybe thats not "sporting" hm? See the point? You can ultimately do as you please, though you may find that results may vary when you "attempt" to implement it.
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.16 17:54:00 - [53] fire 59 - you are really annoying when it comes to titans do you abuse all other posters here with ingame mails too to shut em? If i get bored ill copy-paste your mails to me, dont worry, i didnt delete them because they are SO FUNNY (especially when you got angry and you spelt abt 70% of words wrong). And yes - titans are bad, please continue :)
Ishtar1 Paradox v2.0 1 Shot 1 Kill	Posted - 2007.05.16 17:59:00 - [54] Originally by: Aries Acheron Hardly a troll. The matter of the fact is, there is a way to balance something. The OP hates DDD so much, that 'nothing' will make it balanced. That's not a rational angle. If something's unbalanced with an X cost to fire, and a Y recharge, then adjust that until it /is/ balanced. Or some other factor. It IS rational, he is thinking about whether the DDD as a game mechanic needs to be taken back to the drawing board yeah sure, people will disagree yada yada but if you cannot see that that is a relative view to the fact that people who are fighting these things daily are becoming disconcerted over how this is ment to be a fun then you need to look at the DDD discusion again
Niton Stormrider HCD	Posted - 2007.05.16 18:06:00 - [55] Here's a thought: keep DDDs as the uber fleet smiting horror they are, but on top of requiring that they be on grid to fire, also disable all warp and jump engines on the Titan for the duration of recharge. Once the titan fires the death ray it stays put for a half hour, although all other mods stay active. If the other fleet is on its toes and manages to survive (mostly) the blast, they can return and take a run at the Titan. The Titan support fleet warps in the protect the Titan, and bingo: fun fun fleet warfare for everybody, with a shiny Titan as a backdrop. I'm thinking that scene in Independence Day where all the fighters are duking it out over Cheyenne mountain because they know that they've only got a few minutes to bring the big ****** down before it escapes or shoots again. This way the titan is still a powerful weapon but the DDD is no longer the shiny button of death that only requires one player: now the titan corp has to have the forces on hand to defend their flagship which can no longer blast and run with relative impunity.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.05.16 18:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Niton Stormrider Here's a thought: keep DDDs as the uber fleet smiting horror they are, but on top of requiring that they be on grid to fire, also disable all warp and jump engines on the Titan for the duration of recharge. Once the titan fires the death ray it stays put for a half hour, although all other mods stay active. If the other fleet is on its toes and manages to survive (mostly) the blast, they can return and take a run at the Titan. The Titan support fleet warps in the protect the Titan, and bingo: fun fun fleet warfare for everybody, with a shiny Titan as a backdrop. I'm thinking that scene in Independence Day where all the fighters are duking it out over Cheyenne mountain because they know that they've only got a few minutes to bring the big ****** down before it escapes or shoots again. This way the titan is still a powerful weapon but the DDD is no longer the shiny button of death that only requires one player: now the titan corp has to have the forces on hand to defend their flagship which can no longer blast and run with relative impunity. \o/, no. On all counts.
JabJabVVV Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 18:21:00 - [57] Do Titan's need to be balanced? Probably Have CCP said that they are going to do this? Yes Do Titans (even in thier current state) make sub capitals redundant? No (See the battle last night in 9-9 for proof: there were multiple titans in system (but they played a relatively minor role in the battle) and there were large capital fleets in system however it was the sub capital fleets that were ultimately the deciding factor in determining the outcome) Is the thread redundant and factually inaccurate? Yes ----------- When I was a n00b, I spake as a n00b, I understood as a n00b, I thought as a n00b: but when I became pr0, I put away n00bish things.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.16 19:09:00 - [58] Originally by: Deva Blackfire fire 59 - you are really annoying when it comes to titans do you abuse all other posters here with ingame mails too to shut em? If i get bored ill copy-paste your mails to me, dont worry, i didnt delete them because they are SO FUNNY (especially when you got angry and you spelt abt 70% of words wrong). And yes - titans are bad, please continue :) Ah dear sweet deva, the person who admitted he talked crap just to get a rise out of me. Everyone is entitled to there opinion and i tried to have a reasonable discussion about it via mail but you wouldn't have it any other way, you are right, i am wrong etc etc (yawn) . All the cool kids post mails these days, i'm glad they cheer you up, i like to read yours to remind myself that not everyone can have a reasoned and sensible discussion without puffin there chest out and becoming johnny hard bastard. If you don't like what i say, take a long run of a short cliff because its the discussion forum and guess what, people discuss (gasp) BoB vs the coalition of family values
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.16 19:20:00 - [59] Originally by: JabJabVVV Do Titan's need to be balanced? Probably Have CCP said that they are going to do this? Yes Do Titans (even in thier current state) make sub capitals redundant? No (See the battle last night in 9-9 for proof: there were multiple titans in system (but they played a relatively minor role in the battle) and there were large capital fleets in system however it was the sub capital fleets that were ultimately the deciding factor in determining the outcome) Is the thread redundant and factually inaccurate? Yes Actually, I think that's not such a good argument - given the choice between 10 pilots in titans, and 10 pilots in carriers (or whatever mix) what would you opt for? Titan every time perhaps? 'lesser' capitals are only not redundant due to slower production rates. Then again, there are also lower loss rates too...
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.17 02:36:00 - [60] Originally by: Topaz Skydiver Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 16/05/2007 09:41:41 Originally by: Cipher7 Because otherwise the game turns into who can field the biggest blob. If there was no caps we'd be back to 300 man blobs camping each side of a gate and it would be a ******** lagfast. Agree, that's like it is. When it's not about poses and sovereignty, you can sometimes still have good non-blob non-capital fights. But basically that's consensual pvp. You can't force an alliance to fight, if you don't attack their poses. So when an alliance get their ass handed too often in small non-blob non-capital fights, they just don't take those fights anymore. They stay docked, until they get their blob or until the enemy leaves. I disagree. It doesn't have to be that way, and sometimes it isn't. On the weekend, I (an inexperienced gang leader by Agony standards) found myself commanding a gang, largely consisting of inexperienced pilots. My force was decimated by a BoB-alinged force that was roughly ten times our size (as far as I could tell - when my overview was full, I had better things to do than to count ships). Once the shooting started, the fight was almost over (I got my ship out and unaggressed and was bold/crazy/stupid enough to try and break through their formation to rejoin what was left of my squad, rather than hitting control-Q). But there were a lot of things that happened before the fight, where the conflict actually took place. Both sides formed up their gangs, and fitted their ships. They pursued us, and we got clear. They laid a trap. I fell for it, my tingling spider sense drowned out by my greed. The shooting part wasn't the thing that decided the outcome, it was the thing that revealed the outcome. If you're camping somebody in a station, you've made your terms clear 'bring a large force or stay inside' is what you've told your opponent. If your objective is to make them stay inside, then you've won. If your objective is to blow up their ships, you're going to need to use a different approach. ------ Agony Unleashed is recruiting.



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