Dreads should be cheaper. SBs cost the same as t2 frigs, while killing BS 2 sizes up. Dreads should cost the same as HACs, while killing caps 2 sizes up. Oh, and give them covops, remove siege penalties.

Dreads should be cheaper. SBs cost the same as t2 frigs, while killing BS 2 sizes up. Dreads should cost the same as HACs, while killing caps 2 sizes up. Oh, and give them covops, remove siege penalties.

Stop being space poor.

edit: wtf fielding one dread you have no idea what dreads are actually used for do you?

what you want are battleships...they already exist

Complains about dreads costing too much.

Claims isn't poor.

The increase in cost of dreads further lengthens the gap between BS and dread. Thus, along with the gap of dps I spelled out for you, makes even more sense to put an increment inbetween the two. Please, try to use your brain.

As it was, 120m for a tier3 bs in proportion to approx 900m-1bil for a dread was pretty proportionate along with the rest of the ship and price increments. Now 2b is just opening doors for improvements.... and comments from test ally members of no worth apparently.

The point with a dread is that they're deployed to blitz structures etc, and it's something you don't do lightly. Its siege mod also means you can't do much for 5 minutes afterwards. Thus the jump in DPS.

What, exactly, would be the main purpose of this "mini-dread"?

If some guy wants to show up in a lone dread to shoot at my customs offices or pos, I wanna hop in something with a small handful of my buddies and go take him out. Maybe I dont have 2bil to spend on a dread, or one close enough, or Im more worried about getting hot dropped and want something more escapable.

I would consider "me plus nine buddies" a "handful". 10 blaster/pulse/ac fit BS (or hell, Tier3 BC) ships will spank said dread, and still have the ability to GTFO if someone lights a cyno.

Why are you *anywhere* in empire where your dread(s) aren't in jumprange of your POS?

edit cuz i suck at quoting tonight

How much does a bhaalgorn cost, and how efficient is it at neuting vs, say, a domi?

Dunno, maybe u have a couple lowsec pos's and alot of highsec between them? Can travel highsec in some kinda battleship that resembles the new tier 3 battlecruiser.

Dunno, maybe u have a couple lowsec pos's and alot of highsec between them? Can travel highsec in some kinda battleship that resembles the new tier 3 battlecruiser.

Are tier 3 BCs used as anything other than gimmick ships in fleets at this point?

Didn't I read somewhere that they made Highsec POS invulnerable recently? or was that a mistake?

Anyway, I can't see it being a super idea to make Mini-Dreads; though a step up in the BS chain might be nice somewhere in the T2 line. I hate that all T2 BS are essentialy Mission munchers.

Thanks. I'm not really familiar with the Dec shield system or how it works, or even how that would affect a POS. I think I've only ever been wardecced twice, and never had a highsec POS.

I assume that generally means that provided enough guys in Glass cannon's and a weak target corp, you could just walk in and camp the POS for a day or so and take it down under a Wardec?

they're effectively invulnerable due to dec-shields no longer being an exploit.

Based on this information I would say give us the mobile station monster known as the Mother ship and make it twice as much as the Titan! Make stations destructable and then make it so the Mothership jumps from system to system acting as a station and staging area until the new stations can be put up.

Thanks. I'm not really familiar with the Dec shield system or how it works, or even how that would affect a POS. I think I've only ever been wardecced twice, and never had a highsec POS.

I assume that generally means that provided enough guys in Glass cannon's and a weak target corp, you could just walk in and camp the POS for a day or so and take it down under a Wardec?

I love the idea. For one, there is almost no use for Advanced Spaceship Command except as a requirement for Capital ships, almost no ships need ASC but not capital ships.

Also, you could have them be a tier 4 BS or a new class all together, but you could have them fit 4-6 regular large guns and 1 XL turret. (mainly because I think it would look badass) This would give them some feasibility as a standard slow/tanky battleship but also keep them from being an overwhelming dps ship that is used solely for ganking. The XL turret would be near useless while moving anyway. You could enable the siege module to keep it engaged and using the single XL turret for siege engagements, and it would also make it super vulnerable to counter attacks, as they probably should be.

Think, the siege tanks from Starcraft, in theory.

Why I love this idea: It enables more small gang sov warfare, and you would no longer need an entire cap fleet just to take and hold a system, thus letting smaller gangs start claiming their own little pockets of space. More conflict over territory = more change for PVP. When everyone is in giant alliances that are blue to each other, there is very little pvp going on.

Pricing from 4-600m, so that having 3 would equal the dps/cost of a dread, but not the sheer dps or jump ability. It allows for a more gradual jump into dreads, and cap ships. So you wouldn't need to train up a dozen cap skills just to enter your first one.

was with you up to here ...

you should be ashamed of this idea.

Why I love this idea: It enables more small gang sov warfare, and you would no longer need an entire cap fleet just to take and hold a system, thus letting smaller gangs start claiming their own little pockets of space. More conflict over territory = more change for PVP. When everyone is in giant alliances that are blue to each other, there is very little pvp going on.

I'm just going to point out that SOV warfare isn't going to be small gang warfare just because there's a new ship to fly in, since there's no small objective to reach. Cap fleets aren't vital to taking and holding a system, in fact most of the SOV fights I've been in the last 2 years have been mainly decided by subcaps, and caps were mostly drawn in after the fight was over in a given system.

If you seriously want more fighting over territory, make the SOV system suck less ****.

I'm going to have to go with a no on this one.

It's not that I disapprove of your idea per say, I'm all up for in-between classes of ships. But the is a certain progression to things and currently there is only 1 type of dread available. Same for Carriers, Super Carriers and Titans.

Why can't we expand those hull ranges and roles and bring in some new models at different prices to play with?

If sub-caps get to have multiple hull variations and in-between swingers, why can't the bigger toys get a makeover first?

I thought about this a few days ago, but never posted it.

*STUFF*

I would have thought that was a somewhat obvious solution. Might even be fun.

Honestly, I'd be much more in favor of increasing the granularity of the SOV system, and decreasing the HP of said structures, than add even more ships to the mix. You know the SOV system needs work.

Honestly, I'd be much more in favor of increasing the granularity of the SOV system, and decreasing the HP of said structures, than add even more ships to the mix. You know the SOV system needs work.

We disagree on many things, but this...this is common ground. Who knows, you may come around on the whole local idea after all! There is hope for all Goons!!!

Oooo oooo!!! Question!!

What's to stop a 500 man alliance from fielding 500 of these "more versatile" Tech 3 battleships that deal damage similar to a dreadnought but are more mobile, cheaper, and possess less logistical hassles than a dreadnought? Hell... why buy/field a dreadnought at all when you have a more mobile, cheaper, and less logistically clumsy ships at the cost of only half the DPS?

If you're thinking about "remove local" or "remove cloaked ships from local", don't hold your breath. At least not without adding a counter to cloaks so aggressive cloaked ships can be detected by vigilent players.

Don't touch my local (or at the very least, don't make it suck dilz), and I won't touch your cloak.

So the cold war begins.

As a side note, I have repeatedly suggested alternative intel ideas, but thats off topic for the thread.

Mini dreads would be bad as they would be mass spammed by larger alliances. A fleet of 1000+ 400 mil minidreads is something you would see the larger alliances fielding. Dreads as they stand are vulnerable to many things, and it is good that it is this way.

Honestly, I'd be much more in favor of increasing the granularity of the SOV system, and decreasing the HP of said structures, than add even more ships to the mix. You know the SOV system needs work.

Mini dreads would be bad as they would be mass spammed by larger alliances. A fleet of 1000+ 400 mil minidreads is something you would see the larger alliances fielding. Dreads as they stand are vulnerable to many things, and it is good that it is this way.

It'd be nice if CCP got more involved in these conversations and layed out some absolutes that had to be adhered to for this theoreticl ship to be considered.

Technically speaking, what problem do the tier 3 BCs solve? :P

I've always wanted something inbetween battleships and massive capital ships. Now I know that the idea is that there are capitals then super capitals... but the dps jump and cost jump is very large between BS and capital... or so I feel.
My idea would be something along the lines of the tier 3 BC's... it packs a punch, but it dies faster. All that but easier to manufacture and lower material cost. A more disposable dread if you will. Somewhat like the orca is to the rorqual, if that makes any sense to you. Big, slow, capable and more pricey than your typical industrials but not a rorqual by any means.

I think this would allow a bit more action from smaller bodies of players who could now instead of only fielding one dread, can field a handful of these smaller ones with less skilled pilots and less money and if the bigger better pilots with dreads come along, oops ur all of a sudden fighting battleships with cruisers, in terms of proportion.

I contemplate the possibility of them having inherent tracking bonuses to make them hit battleships a little bit. That or maybe throwing off the tracking idea and making them have even worse tracking, but no need for a siege module and short cyno range.

Throw your ideas in, it's just that, an idea. :)


Here's some other random ideas:

- A kind of ship that requires 2 or 3 of the same ship with the same module on them to activate a mini-doomsday or some kind of module that has a pretty big effect but requires you have a handful of people working in unison to acheive it. OR a sort of linking with another ship, which renders you in a siege-like mode of being immobile, but give the receiver an alpha that gets bigger with the more people feeding into it.

Way to not read anything but the last comment Porto. 2 + 2 = ... as far back as you're able to read?

The "problem" if there needed to be one, as Zim said with the tier3 BC's, is highsec pos bashing and alternatives to Dreads for small-scale warfare.

Technically speaking, what problem do the tier 3 BCs solve? :P

.... Fair point. I don't know. But they're cool where a mini-dread isn't...

EDIT: Oh, I remember. The T3 BCs weren't introduced because another ship was starting to get really expensive, and thus some people couldn't hack it and wanted an el-cheapo version.

Being someone who actually took the time to shoot at a Large POS solo, in a Drake, until I ran out of ammo, to the net result of a bare sliver of red; I can see why someone would want a mini-dread for Highsec POS bashing.

edit: I might add that the tower didn't have any resists.

Right now, hisec POS bashing is irrelevant (because it's impossible) due to the DecShield mechanic.

If you can field the numbers, SBs will field the DPS of a dread fleet for much less isk, risk, and logistical hassle. If you can field the Isk, a small (full sized)Dread fleet will do that job. If you can't field those numbers or that Isk, you'll just have to spend the time. Right now POS bashing is a Numbers-Isk-Time triangle.

You can have it done fast, cheap, or with little manpower, pick 2.

If the enemy can kill or drive you off before you've spent enough time, welp, guess you picked the wrong fight.

It takes a single dread, 1 hour, to re-enforce a small tower, that's being sieged the entire time too.

And you want a minidread?

If you cannot afford a dread, then i suggest you stay the hell away from 0.0 space.

EDIT: Oh, I remember. The T3 BCs weren't introduced because another ship was starting to get really expensive, and thus some people couldn't hack it and wanted an el-cheapo version.

-dreads dont go into highsec, in case you havent noticed
- I said small-scale (in other words, we dont all have 100+ stealth bombers available)
-Not everyone is smart enough to use DecShield as Im seeing right now in my present war dec, so it has a use

If you do not have a required combination of time, isk, and numbers, you don't get to take down a POS or other structure. It's that simple.

Eve does not have a sliding scale for combat. You either win, or you loose. Nobody cares how you didn't have enough people to win, that's your failure to recruit.

Hisec puts limits on the amount of Isk you can field in order to protect people. It makes up for this by making it much easier to field more numbers for longer.

You seem to be laboring under the delusion that a DickStar shouldn't make you want to punch yourself in the Dick when you need to blow it up. It's set up entirely to be such a pain as to be not worth shooting, and you're complaining that you're not willing to field the numbers for the time it takes to shoot?

I've RFed Large towers with ~30 bombers before. It sucks. Nobody likes to do it. You choose to play where ~1000 dps is the maximum a single character can field, that's your choice. Don't come whining to the forums that the job takes longer.

You seem to be "laboring under the delusion" that Im the only person who can see merit in this idea and that its solely for my gain in one specific situation, just as other people who also have no better arguement than to try and demean this idea by insinuating that Im being cheap. The war dec and pos I mentioned are new, I began this post before any of that. Its a suggestion to implement something that alot more people than just me can see a place in the game for. So guess again if you think for a second your situational belittling means anything.

If I wanted to, I could make a fleet issue phoon or other ships that would do the low end of the kinds of dps Im talking about here, without triage or being that vulnerable. Highsec isnt protected against isk, no matter what kind of silly circle jerk theories you think the game revolves around. Whether someone wants to man a 100-man highsec fleet of t1 BS or 20 people want to buy more practical "mini-dreads", there isnt a difference, it's already doable with faction stuff and this is just a different way about it that more people can get into and that is planned with balance in mind. If you bothered to read, you might have figured it out. The only thing this changes in what people have the ability to do with their isk/time/numbers is allowing them a higher dps threshold for their class of ship at a properly balanced increase in vulnerability, similar to SB's and just like tier 3 BC's. It adds more dynamic pvp by enabling people that are otherwise able, but uninclined, to do the things they would use this ship for.

Whats wrong with something that's the equivalent of a paper-thin phoon fleet issue with a gank fit and some faction mods? It'd come out to about the same isk with the prices people are mentioning in this post and Im sure CCP is competent enough to price it right.

It's always the 0.0 ******* that want to ***** about and attempt to shoot down any possible changes that could threaten their current domination over null or make them have to share more of it.

So you're saying it's already possible? Then why do you need a new ship?

And the difference between 20 people and 100 people is 80 people.

Like I wrote: more practical. Reading... again Ruby... come on.
Its possible with select ships, why not make it possible with more universal ships? why not push the threshold by a few hundred dps at the expense of survivability to make it into a ship to fill a role people want and not just a t2 varient of the fleet issue phoon?

20 is less than 100 by a factor of 5. Rate the cost of this ship as such if you will. 100m for a bs, 500m for a sieging-oriented bs.

True, fitted bs is more like 250m.

Lets say your 250m bs is cranking out 800dps on avg in a fleet. Your dread only costs 1.2bil usually and can do an easy 6,000dps and up. That isnt really much of a huge hike in price. 6,000 divided by 8 is 7.5. So 7.5 battleships worth of dps at the low end of dread dps and that is already over 1.4bil which is more than the cost of a dread.

It's always the 0.0 ******* that want to ***** about and attempt to shoot down any possible changes that could threaten their current domination over null or make them have to share more of it. This would also make wormholes all kinds of interesting and decrease the huge power of the people who built a ton of caps in a c4 or lower.

I prefer the little people big isk solution. Its how I like to play. Not as a part of a large-scale operation like a thousand man alliance running dirt cheap fittings, but as veteran player that can make alot of money without alot of people and hold some power. As are the people I play with. Money is power, wIthin reason ofcourse, which I feel this plays into, as shown in calculations below.
Not like this is anything new... you can pimp the hell out of your t3 with all kinds of money and make it the equivalent of many t2 cruisers. Shouldnt be that big of a leap to take pumping isk into your ship for prominence in fleet engagements to doing the same for pos engagements.

If you can get 10,000dps out of 600m and 20 people. 2,000-2,500dps isnt that unreasonable for ~500m and 1 person. Seeing that its only one person, that would make sense that you get less for more as you're reducing the number of people. I dont know if the ratio is right but it seems like its in the right ballpark.


1person:20m:500dps (SB)
1person:500m:2,000dps (mini-dread)
1person:~1bil:6,000dps (dread)

Mini-dread: 4x the dps, 25x the price.
Dread: 12x the dps, 50x the price.

Getting three times more dps in the dread for only twice as much. Thats at 6,000 dps... errbody knows dreads can do more than that..

"No, sir, I do not bite my thumb at you, sir, but I bite my thumb, sir. "

Im just generalizing in an attempt to add weight to a rebuttal.

"Shoals" don't need to be huge. Also, there's a lot to be said for throwing cheap ships at caps. How many dreads do you think you'll take down with 10-20 gankfit BS before you're taken down, and how much more efficient, price-wise, do you think that'd be than a 500m "minidread"?

And I think you'd find it wholly price inefficient to throw bhaalgorns into such fights.

Due to the ionic field created by the siege module, remote effects like warp scrambling et al. will not affect the ship while in siege mode.

This also means that friendly remote effects will not work while in siege mode either.

Thus far, the main assumed positive to come out of this that I've seen is we'll get something to make hisec POS bashing easier. My main reservation is that it might make dreads less desired, and they've already been marginalized for 2 years due to the supercaps buff. I've no idea if they're "back in fashion" with the slew of changes crucible brought to both them and supercaps, but I'm fearing that making a subcap that's fairly close to a sieged dread (I call half the dps fairly close) without the hefty skill requirements that comes with going for capitals, will also marginalize the dreads.

I've always wanted something ...

Me too! I kinda want this sorta thing that has a whatsit and the thing may or may not do something when a battleship is there for like the ding-a-ma-jig which finds out the thing-a-ma-bob has a something or other when it flies near that other thing.

And capital weapons.

True.. but training cap weps is a joke compared to t2 large weps. Depends on whether this thing would take the shape of a ship that can fit a cap gun or a ship that just uses a siege module w/ regular guns I guess.

And Jump Skills.

15d Warp Drive 5 (I'm not sure how many subcap pilots ever train that)

20-25d JDO 1-5

10-15d JFC 1-4

10-15d(45d) JDC 1-4(5)

That's a significant amount of time.

...all but the same training for dread except the nav skills for cyno jumping.

The useable minimum for getting into a dread and being able to jump is alot less than what you've posted. More like just jump drive operation 3. As is my alt who simply hops his carrier short distanes to wormholes. Maybe like 15d Warp Drive 5, 1-2 days JDO 3. An 18 day difference and a massive difference in the ships being compared. Anything further is your own desire to jump many more systems at a time, something this ship wouldnt be able to do. So comparing the trade off between being able to cyno vs. traveling highsec 1 jump at a time... like comparing two different animals.

True.. but training cap weps is a joke compared to t2 large weps. Depends on whether this thing would take the shape of a ship that can fit a cap gun or a ship that just uses a siege module w/ regular guns I guess.

Also add t1 anti-sub cap weapons for the dread & Titan classes.

Uh. As if titans need better guns against subcaps.

And it's not like they can't fit lower-tier guns if they feel like they absolutely must.

Now your asking for a sub cap with cap guns.

So give whales some of the same love. Give caps anti-sub cap guns. And I'm not talking about small rails either. I'm on about a capital EoA anti sub cap weapon that can fire at range.

I'm on about a capital EoA anti sub cap weapon that can fire at range.

If you're going to blame this on someone, at least get it right. I'm one of those mostly against this because I see no real point to it (and I fear it'll marginalize dreads).


Also, **** this. **** it with a big rubber dildo. This is a horrible idea, we've gone away from this for a reason.

Sorry, I thought you said you wanted a Titan Stealth Bomber.

I'm talking to a moron. Shocked

There is no iwin button in eve. Nor should there be a "i-hazCapGunsOnMahSubcap" button, if caps dont get the same face lift.

Well there ya go, need moar subcap bashing.

Show me where I mentioned the words cov ops cloak or bombs while talking about an AoE anti-sub cap ranged weapon.

capital EoA anti sub cap weapon that can fire at range.

Then again, there are still pretty clear trends of preferred ships. Maybe they just need to keep switching it up and make it interesting by doing it with new ships not just tweaks on old ones.

Homeworld rocks. The ship type you mentioned would be somewhat along the lines of what we could use.

Some kind of capital that bashes subcaps that isnt a carrier/mothership would be cool. Make it so it cant beat dreads in equal numbers and then all of a sudden dreads have something to kill again, yay.

Fair, you didn't mention a CovOps cloak, but as Bombers are the only ranged damage AOE ship in the game... Titan SB seems to fit.

As for other ideas than Damage, what is there? Supers have the Remote ECM burst. So titans can get what? Neuting would make them once again able to get rid of HICs (unless they were stuck after use, in which case ). The other EWARs are pretty LOLtastic as an AOE weapon system.

List of EWAR
ECM --- See Supers, Lockbreaker Bombs
Sensor Damps ---- How would this, I don't even, let alone be useful.
Stasis Web ---- Not really a Titan thing, and Tracking Titans don't need a buff.
TP ----- not worthwhile as an AOE
Tracking Disruptors ------ How hard is it to track a Titan?
Warp Jamming ------ See HIC, DIC
RSEBO ---- I'm reaching now
Neuts ---- Void Bombs, also would be bad considering CCP just made them once again properly vulnerable to HICs.

So, damage would be the only Remote AOE that would make sense for a Titan. And would be a terrible idea.

Sigh.

Do you Hate the server? Optimal+Falloff calculations to EVERY ship in a large range? Also, that's Exactly like a Smartbomb or Bomb. Except in clusters, Bombs only kill really small stuff. Same with Smarties. Just because you call it Flak (Airbursting Projectiles that Explode some distance from the launcher) and I call it a Bomb (Airbursting Projectiles that Explode some distance from the launcher) doesn't make them different.

As for something capital sized that shoots subcaps. Meet Avy, your friendly Neighborhood Tracking Avatar. Putting out some 11k DPS at an Optimal of 38km, they have enough tracking to kill most Stuffs that can bother it (even without even a DCII, they have 3.6m EHP). [Tracking Rags and Erebuses also do similar numbers]

1) No. I just expect more from the server. It's already happening with the existing pew pew mechanics in place because last time I checked, all our current turrets and missiles have falloff and optimum damages that gets calculated for every ship in the weapons range as this ships range varies in real time....

2) The difference between what your holding onto and what Im on about is pure speed. That bomb won't be moving very fast will it? And I'd like to see you mwding with your dread to within 5km (under cloak no less) to drop something on a frigate gang. And the smartbomb is such a poor example, due to its severe lack of meaningful range. 5-7km (if that), isn't going to do much to a frigate pointing you at 20 km, or recons pointing you even further away.

Nah, a dread should at the very least be capable of dealing mass amounts of damage to ships, regardless of their size, provided they are fitted with the right weapons. And right now, that is severely lacking in Eve because we have this sub caps > caps mentality.

We don't want moar e-war for caps. We want the means to engage and kill these small flies (now that we've lost all our drones) that should know better than to engage something 100 times it's size and cost. And this is by no means the I-win button, its the I-fair button. Since as of this post, taking 1 cap against even a handful of smaller ships is a suicide wish. That cap should stand a chance (without costing 50 + billion isk) to take at least 50% or more of that handful of ships down with it.

3) 50 bil for a hull, without fittings, just to engage 100 mil odd in ships from a single gang (assuming their all canes or drakes)?

I'm not suggesting that a dread be cloaked. I'm saying that AOE damage dealt from range is not a good game mechanic for something like Dread. It's a terrible one. I'm not saying you're suggesting it drop out the nose like a bomb. I'm saying that the Bomb is the closest relative (and a very close relative at that) to what you're suggesting, a turret that shoots Bombs.

The other problem is that no other thing in the game works like how you describe. Small stuff is hard to hit with big guns. That's pretty much the number one rule of Eve weaponry. And it's a good one because it encourages mixed size fleets.

Guess what. Caps have something to swat the flies. It's called your Subcap Support fleet.

We JUST got away from a situation where Naked Cap/Super fleets were being used regularly and (hopefully) back to requiring a mixed Cap/Subcap composition. Naked Caps vs a gang of Subcaps are supposed to die horribly. If they didn't, there'd be no reason to fly anything else. That's why Rock, Paper, Shotgun is a boring game.

Also, this is Eve. Playing the Fair Card is a poor plan.

Some kind of capital that bashes subcaps that isnt a carrier/mothership would be cool. Make it so it cant beat dreads in equal numbers and then all of a sudden dreads have something to kill again, yay.

Up until crucible, no other battlecruiser could fit large guns. But if it can be dreamed up and forced unto the devs, it can be done.

So by implication all sub caps should be impervious to cap fire, cuz if they weren't, there would be no reason to fly anything else... amirite?

This was the devs thinking up this ship to bribe the playerbase, it wasn't something that was forced on them by the players.

Says who? There are quite a few various things you can do to "bash subcaps", which involves "other subcaps" or even "titans".

Can't beat Dreads in equal numbers. Bashes Subcaps. Ok, that would be low DPS, High Tracking. Sounds a lot like an 8 Gun Battleship.

If it were a Cap, you really think someone would Siege a dread on it? No, you call in your Supers.

SuperCapitals Bash Supers and Caps. (With the Help of Subcap Support. Gotta Bubble)

Well it just seems a bit mixed up that carriers are cap-sized logistics that basically only rep sub-caps cuz in siege/triage other caps cant be helped. So we have a capital that logi's sub-caps but no capital that is tailored to bashing sub-caps. The titans used to, but now all they do is bash other caps, further closing in that exclusive circle of cap-on-cap interaction.

Maybe the role, if it needs filling at all, could possibly be filled by a different kind of siege module that instead of giving 6,000+ dps and zero tracking, gives 2000-2500'ish dps (I dunno, u come up with a number for all I care) and increases its tracking to be able to hit battleships rather than penalising it.

1. A carrier is a Capital sized logistics ship, so it doesn't seem mixed up at all that it would need DPS support.

Wow you really need to get out to lowsec, carriers get dropped on any and everything and you're telling me they are logi ships? Do you have any idea what kind of dps they put out?

You know when reading this thread title I was actually thinking of something in the opposite direction.

I'd like a more expensive beefier dread. I'd pay an extra bil or so to buy something that had enough EHP to survive one titan zap.

Also I want a dread with decent enough tracking and accuracy that it can be effective while shooting at battleships.

I've always wanted something inbetween battleships and massive capital ships. Now I know that the idea is that there are capitals then super capitals... but the dps jump and cost jump is very large between BS and capital... or so I feel.
My idea would be something along the lines of the tier 3 BC's... it packs a punch, but it dies faster. All that but easier to manufacture and lower material cost. A more disposable dread if you will. Somewhat like the orca is to the rorqual, if that makes any sense to you. Big, slow, capable and more pricey than your typical industrials but not a rorqual by any means.

I think this would allow a bit more action from smaller bodies of players who could now instead of only fielding one dread, can field a handful of these smaller ones with less skilled pilots and less money and if the bigger better pilots with dreads come along, oops ur all of a sudden fighting battleships with cruisers, in terms of proportion.

I contemplate the possibility of them having inherent tracking bonuses to make them hit battleships a little bit. That or maybe throwing off the tracking idea and making them have even worse tracking, but no need for a siege module and short cyno range.

Throw your ideas in, it's just that, an idea. :)


Here's some other random ideas:

- A kind of ship that requires 2 or 3 of the same ship with the same module on them to activate a mini-doomsday or some kind of module that has a pretty big effect but requires you have a handful of people working in unison to acheive it. OR a sort of linking with another ship, which renders you in a siege-like mode of being immobile, but give the receiver an alpha that gets bigger with the more people feeding into it.

Wouldn't Tech 3 Battleships be able to fit that niece if they would ever come out ?

like the new BC's ... sacifice tank for DPS...

[Original Post Erased]

This thread has since become a thread more about a niche to be filled between battleship and capital ships. That or battleship and dread... I really cant tell.

Throw your ideas into the pot!

...this thing would be like 800-1bil Im assuming.

I've always wanted something inbetween battleships and massive capital ships. Now I know that the idea is that there are capitals then super capitals... but the dps jump and cost jump is very large between BS and capital... or so I feel.
My idea would be something along the lines of the tier 3 BC's... it packs a punch, but it dies faster. All that but easier to manufacture and lower material cost. A more disposable dread if you will. Somewhat like the orca is to the rorqual, if that makes any sense to you. Big, slow, capable and more pricey than your typical industrials but not a rorqual by any means.

I think this would allow a bit more action from smaller bodies of players who could now instead of only fielding one dread, can field a handful of these smaller ones with less skilled pilots and less money and if the bigger better pilots with dreads come along, oops ur all of a sudden fighting battleships with cruisers, in terms of proportion.

I contemplate the possibility of them having inherent tracking bonuses to make them hit battleships a little bit. That or maybe throwing off the tracking idea and making them have even worse tracking, but no need for a siege module and short cyno range.

Throw your ideas in, it's just that, an idea. :)


Here's some other random ideas:

- A kind of ship that requires 2 or 3 of the same ship with the same module on them to activate a mini-doomsday or some kind of module that has a pretty big effect but requires you have a handful of people working in unison to acheive it. OR a sort of linking with another ship, which renders you in a siege-like mode of being immobile, but give the receiver an alpha that gets bigger with the more people feeding into it.

For Shame, OP. Taking the cowardly way out by deleting your idea. Terrible as it was, y u no conviction?

Oh Ruby. We arent all beings of poor troll and inability to see the potential in others ideas like yourself.

Roughly 0 in ship to ship combat. Fighters go big boom. Fighters also have travel time and are slow.

Supers are the DPS drone boats of the capital family.

If you don't think carrier drops are used for their DPS than you're living in a fragile sheltered existence out in null where all anyone does is blob. That isn't all eve is.

Why don't you come out of your safe sov bubble to lowsec and see how carriers are used as DPS.

http://divinity.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11976148

and

http://divinity.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11963243.

If you don't think carrier drops are used for their DPS than you're living in a fragile sheltered existence out in null where all anyone does is blob. That isn't all eve is.

edit: you may need to copy paste the links to work.

Yeah, that's a hotdrop Gank. That's not a fight. Fights generally involve shooting on both sides. Mind you, there is *nothing* wrong with ganks; they're fun and are certainly valid PvP. They just aren't what I call fights.

Roughly 0 in ship to ship combat. Fighters go big boom. Fighters also have travel time and are slow.

Supers are the DPS drone boats of the capital family.

Fair enough, though my assertion that fighters tend to die suggests I meant combat in which both combatants are actively shooting.

So read that as "In a Fight, Carriers are Primarily-Totally Logistics ships"

Either it's a small enough fight where the carrier is likely to Triage, or it's a large fight and the Fighters won't do much/will get blown up, or it's a really big fight and the carrier will Triage to save Supers.

In any event, outside a Carrier hotdrop, carriers aren't DPS ships. And even then, a good fleet BS will out damage a Carrier (applied Damage) unless you do something silly like put DCUs on it.

A properly skilled carrier can put out 1000dps without any drone control units, a BS will have a hard time fitting out those numbers while implementing a proper tank. Can you build a dragonslayer fleet of battleships designed to take down a carrier with spider tanking, sure. But you make it sound like carriers are just joke dps and tank and can be taken down by 3-4 battleships sitting on it, when that isn't the case.

As I said before, if you've got other caps to bring in, carriers aren't a big deal, for the small gang people, if someone drops a carrier on your fight, they win, regardless, unless you want to drop one of your own.