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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Kotori
Gallente Sacred Templars DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 22:32:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Kotori on 28/05/2007 22:33:40 Edited by: Kotori on 28/05/2007 22:31:13 Ok. On the subject of the warp bubble. I can see what nova is suggestign the use of it for. It is not for the use of keeping players from warping out. The role of the bubble is to act as a clear marker for the teams that they may begin. If you have been in the tourny before. you will known that it is not necesarily simple to know the beginnign of the fight.
Players do not like reading local for the countdown, as with all pvp encounters, we play with your chat windows minimized, in order to gain the best performance. The bubble going active acts as a clear marker to begin, with all players seeing it at the same time, and beginning the fight.
The bubble is not ment to be big enough to cover the arena. I would hope that the arena will be clearly marked out, after having one of my guys move out of it last tournie, im sure none of you will forget :)
As for the complaints on implants, this that and everything. I cannot see a way, that a team using crystal implants or such, is going to have a major advantage in this tournament. Im not sayign there will be no advantage to it. But i know the damage i can put out in a tempest, i know the damage my alliance mates can put out in other ships, and no one, i repeat no one is going to be able to tank agenst that kind of damage output, not with the amount of ships i am allowed to field in this tournament.
These rules do not re-create real PvP. There is simply no way to create 'organised' 'real pvp'. TBH, real PvP is alliances juggling with numbers until they out number the enemy. This tournament will be interesting.
Please state real reasons for any changes you feel necesary, im not saying that you all have bad ideas. The cosmos module fighters definitely have very good points made. But suggestions, written in bad english, are simply no help to anyone, and will be overlooked. Provide a persuasive argument, and you never know what way it will go.
--Kotori--
--Destiny FC--
oh, and a slight PS. Can someone please kick ginger for me. What happened to my corp tournie. Tell him to get in touch with us ..........
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5n4keyes
Sacred Templars DeStInY.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 22:49:00 -
[92]
A count down in local is a much better idea than the warp disrupt bubble.
My pc has a habit of not showing warp distupt bubbles activate, sometimes takes a few mins til the client kinda refreshes to see the bubble, the bubble works, but i dont see it.
As for the points system... in two words 'It Sucks'. Needs a serious rethink! much like the last tourny, which wasnt fully sorted til a few days before!, that point system worked.
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Dez Erichs
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.29 22:58:00 -
[93]
Thinks look much more interesting than last year. Including Ewar will defninitely increase the strategies available to the competitors.
I would prefer a no implants battle, podding optional, so that it doesn't become an isk war. I assume the goal of this tourney is to show skill, and not be an isk war / epeen waving.
Also, allowing to warp within the grid of the arena would be nice, it allows for some interesting tactics as well, so I'm with the Burn Eden fellow there. It will be necessary to fit warp disruptors to prevent people from warping away, increasing possible strategies.
I like the point system. It will get people out of their battleships, and perhaps back into frigates. High SP combined with T1 frigates can actually be quite potent.
--- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com "Veni, Vidi, Caedi" |
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.30 04:23:00 -
[94]
Originally by: 5n4keyes A count down in local is a much better idea than the warp disrupt bubble.
My pc has a habit of not showing warp distupt bubbles activate, sometimes takes a few mins til the client kinda refreshes to see the bubble, the bubble works, but i dont see it.
You'll know when the fighting starts from TS/Vent
[green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d |
Sarta Welinder
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:27:00 -
[95]
I'm a bit confused:
Quote: General .... 8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins. .... Ships 1. Each team has 100 points to select their ships. 2. Each team may have up to 10 ships on the battlefield. 3. Unused points will be added to the opponents score.
Am I to take this to mean that teams will be penalized for not making use of all 100 points?
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.01 12:31:00 -
[96]
With highest respect to anyone who has the unenviable job of being an authority figure on these forums, I have a few questions:
1- There appears to be no information on when/how to sign up? This is pretty relevant if only 64 (or is it 32?) teams are getting in. Sixty-four alliances, I'm not so worried. Thirty-two alliances, hmm...scramble time.
2- We need some clarity on the warp bubble issue. "Maybe bubble/no bubble" isn't okay here, no offense. Even without warping, some of us newer up-and-coming alliances have no interest in churning through multiple sets of high grades. If the bubble is there, it's intended that everyone be podded. If it's not there... and there appear to be no points awarded for podding either way... are we really aiming just to have a griefer tool in the tournament? That seems counter to good sportsmanship, having fun, etc. If we're trying to zap those who lose ships, let's go at it whole cloth. If not, let's take it out altogether?
3- You said something about "Nowhere does it say the warp bubble will be 250km across and you can't field 10 battleships." Begging pardon, but 27*10 = a lot more than 100 points.... or is that a bad case of double negatives in action?
4- It seems like (with the exception of faction battleships and implants) the "no drugs, no faction, no cosmos" is an attempt at lowering the general cost of competition gear - why are rigs on this list? They weren't even in the class of the other items on the list when they came out, and many rigs are dirt cheap now.
My condolences for having to deal with us all, and I heartily support your right to make the decisions. Our alliance will come out swinging under any rules, just looking to have a good time.
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SoMoSo
Caldari Solidline Enterprise Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.01 13:12:00 -
[97]
wen the rouls will be set for good, and to Tax for sign up and the rest of information ?
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:12:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Sarta Welinder I'm a bit confused:
Quote: General .... 8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins. .... Ships 1. Each team has 100 points to select their ships. 2. Each team may have up to 10 ships on the battlefield. 3. Unused points will be added to the opponents score.
Am I to take this to mean that teams will be penalized for not making use of all 100 points?
No.
See it like this: the team with most points LEFT after fight will win. - EVE is sick. |
Gee Lok
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Posted - 2007.06.01 15:42:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Gee Lok on 01/06/2007 15:44:49
Originally by: GM Nova The tournament will be infused more into the storyline and thus there are things we will not reveal at this time.
In my opinion, you are trying to make the tournament too complex.
It is a mistake to equate eve-online the dynamic MMORPG with eve-online the tournament. Sure they both played in eve, but one is a MMORPG, and the other is a tournament. The tournament is a more like a sports event, and should be run that way.
After all, sports arenÆt about replicating real world situations. They are about having clear rules so that people are on an equal playing field. The outcome should mostly depend on the competitor's relative skills, tactics, strategies etc. It shouldnÆt depend on random factors that ensure a victory for one side.
I think the rules that you have posted are sufficient with a little tweaking. Perhaps you could disallow podkilling, that serves no purpose. Perhaps you could have a smaller arena with start points like the last tournament and so onàReally, you are probably better equipped to make such decisions than me :p
Having said that, you must be working really hard at this. I hope that everything goes well, as it no doubt will. I really look forward to seeing the event. It should be awesome.
Cheers
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Sarta Welinder
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Posted - 2007.06.01 20:28:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Ithildin
No.
See it like this: the team with most points LEFT after fight will win.
So, again, if a team fields 10 Navitas (who knows why), they will have used 30 of their 100 points. According to the rules, the remainder of their points will be added to their opponents' score.
If as you say, they somehow manage to destroy all 100 points worth of ships that their opponent has, their opponent will still have the 70 points and they will merely have 30.
I'm just saying that the point system doesn't make much sense the way that it was originally worded.
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.06.02 12:41:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Sarta Welinder
Originally by: Ithildin
No.
See it like this: the team with most points LEFT after fight will win.
So, again, if a team fields 10 Navitas (who knows why), they will have used 30 of their 100 points. According to the rules, the remainder of their points will be added to their opponents' score.
If as you say, they somehow manage to destroy all 100 points worth of ships that their opponent has, their opponent will still have the 70 points and they will merely have 30.
I'm just saying that the point system doesn't make much sense the way that it was originally worded.
You are misreading it.
Team A fields 10 Navitas (30 points) and Team B fields a full set up (100 points).
Team A manages to destroy all of Team B without suffering losses, the score: Team A: 100 points Team B: 70 points
As I described it, the winner can be *seen* to be determined by who has most points left: Team A: 10*3 points = 30 points Team B: X*0 points = 0 points
As written in the rules: You GET what you KILL. If you DON'T field a point, your enemy DEFAULT as having KILLED that point.
What points you don't field, the enemy is considered to have killed - EVE is sick. |
Sarta Welinder
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Posted - 2007.06.03 00:40:00 -
[102]
So, as I said in my original post, a team is penalized for not using all 100 points.
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Jonny 101
The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen
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Posted - 2007.06.05 02:17:00 -
[103]
I wont be participating, as normal however...it's going to be very dull to watch on tv, if I want random pvp i'll undock and roam I wanto see the championships with expensive ships and elite-lamer tactics that steam-roll ****!
That aside, my every single clone has a set of expensive implants, will you be supplying fresh clones so people like me won't lose our HG slave sets etc?
I'm not going to ***** etc, simply inform whoever cares that this tourney looks very boring from my point of view.
And i'm sure many will agree, give us the champions league of eve, not a fair fight, show us the bling!
------------------------------------------------ crash003 > 400k more lp and ill have a navy mega TheJacko > 400k lol TheJacko > ineed 250k The hidden face of turby |
Andor Traxel
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2007.06.05 05:03:00 -
[104]
Hmmm how about a giant Crokite roid in the middle of the arena, each jetcan load counts as a point. Then we could work hulks into the Tourney and it would be more like real pvp.
Jk...
Why all the fuss The rules sound very well thought out. as for posting ship layouts and fleet ideas, Let me power up that Cray with some heuristic algorithms loaded... Ohh wait its gonna take it a while for that result...
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Arkemn Trefore
New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.06.05 10:18:00 -
[105]
It is more like real pvp for those who never leave test server. I just don't understand your calling something an Alliance Tournament. Fine i get that fact but this is not pvp. I got 6 idea's.
1. Give us 5 systems to roam around in with docking prohibited.
2. Allow us to use any fitting we want bar only faction. Beacause lets face it faction is the win for those who have money.
3. Allow up to 10 ships with the curent point system.
4. Allow different starting systems for each team.
5. Allow 4 different teams in the field at a time
6. Allow 25 minutes to pass before calling the match
That would be more like real pvp. We would half to hunt for the other players meaning dividing our numbers to find them. More teams equals more variables i have been in the middle of a good fight kicking some rear. When all of the sudden an enemy that disliked both of us jumped in. Because i had been in the fight for the bit get snapped like a cheap brush. that puts pvp skill to the ultimate test. If it's a three way fight and the other team decides to stay out of it and kil the winner then that thier decision. Pvp isn't about fitting it's about stratagy. Lets take this example. Eos Lachesis and a Vagabond vs Absolution Deimos and a Caracal who would win. My choices is Absolution Deimos and Caracal. Not because the Absolution is scary because the Caracal is a scary little monster. It could go either way depending on stratagy.
.........................
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Andor Traxel
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2007.06.05 20:15:00 -
[106]
If each team a hidden deadspace pocket for a collection point, then you could base cameras at each of three positions red base, blue base and a giant rare ore asteroid. That would bring system scanning and resource collection into the mix. Players are free to warp around the system but can only engage in combat at each others bases or in the asteroid field. Give mining ships a fit on the point system and give each teams bases some sentry guns to make assualting a base with a defending fleet more difficult. Would that be more like real pvp? Wait, wait how about a flag in each base...
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ookke
Gallente 0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.06.05 22:04:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Andor Traxel If each team a hidden deadspace pocket for a collection point, then you could base cameras at each of three positions red base, blue base and a giant rare ore asteroid. That would bring system scanning and resource collection into the mix. Players are free to warp around the system but can only engage in combat at each others bases or in the asteroid field. Give mining ships a fit on the point system and give each teams bases some sentry guns to make assualting a base with a defending fleet more difficult. Would that be more like real pvp? Wait, wait how about a flag in each base...
On a slightly more serious side note... is guardian-vexor regarded as a t1 cruiser like it's on the market, or is it a faction ship? :)
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Pilk
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.06 13:00:00 -
[108]
Originally by: ookke On a slightly more serious side note... is guardian-vexor regarded as a t1 cruiser like it's on the market, or is it a faction ship? :)
Look under the variations tab and you'll find your answer.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
Trevedian
Amarr KR0M The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:00:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Pilk
Originally by: Kayosoni
Originally by: Pilk
Originally by: Kayosoni there are cosmos items that are equal to officer.
Wrong. (Sorry.)
Oh, and BTW: there are officer items that are worse than tech-2 (check out Thon's modified resistance amps some time). Under your system, then, does this mean we need to ban tech-2?
Disallowing COSMOS is ridiculous, especially in the face of allowing podding. You cannot possibly justify it as trying to reduce the cost of entry. So how do you justify it? Are the lower fittings and *very* rare better-than-t2 stats (i.e., 'Motte' CPR) really that game-breaking?
--P
fail
Epic forum failure right back atcha, bud--that doesn't drop. Find me a Shaqil's EANM, while you're at it.
I repeat my earlier statement--disallowing COSMOS is ridiculous.
--P
I totally agree with Pilk, COSMOS modules should be allowed... They are nowhere near as good as most Officer/Commander mods...
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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ookke
Gallente 0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.06.12 14:03:00 -
[110]
Agreed, COSMOS and warping inside arena should be allowed. Cosmos was allowed in all the previous tourneys and there is no good reason to ban it this time either.
Rigs are worth considering, but might be a little too good for tank turtles.
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The Judge
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:09:00 -
[111]
This will just be another tournament based on tanks.
Anybody with some common sense will know that nearly every fight is going to be a navy raven/rattlesnake with a crystal set, with support fitted with shield transfers. Watching that over and over again isn't exacley good tv.
-Implants need to be removed -Armor/Shield maintenance drones/mods removed -EW removed
Those 3 changes would make fights alot fairer, and alot more interesting to watch.
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ookke
Gallente 0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.06.14 17:49:00 -
[112]
Originally by: The Judge This will just be another tournament based on tanks.
Anybody with some common sense will know that nearly every fight is going to be a navy raven/rattlesnake with a crystal set, with support fitted with shield transfers. Watching that over and over again isn't exacley good tv.
-Implants need to be removed -Armor/Shield maintenance drones/mods removed -EW removed
Those 3 changes would make fights alot fairer, and alot more interesting to watch.
You have no idea what you are talking about, the whole point of allowing EW is being able to break rep chains. Repair bots will also be out-balanced by EW drones also being allowed, a swarm of ecm drones can be really frustrating.
There will probably be stalemates between tank turtles, nanotards and EW lineups, especially if warping inside arena isn't allowed, but it will definitely not be a tanking only tournament this year.
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The Judge
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.14 20:03:00 -
[113]
Originally by: ookke
Originally by: The Judge This will just be another tournament based on tanks.
Anybody with some common sense will know that nearly every fight is going to be a navy raven/rattlesnake with a crystal set, with support fitted with shield transfers. Watching that over and over again isn't exacley good tv.
-Implants need to be removed -Armor/Shield maintenance drones/mods removed -EW removed
Those 3 changes would make fights alot fairer, and alot more interesting to watch.
You have no idea what you are talking about, the whole point of allowing EW is being able to break rep chains. Repair bots will also be out-balanced by EW drones also being allowed, a swarm of ecm drones can be really frustrating.
There will probably be stalemates between tank turtles, nanotards and EW lineups, especially if warping inside arena isn't allowed, but it will definitely not be a tanking only tournament this year.
Or you don't know what you're talking about ?
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Spikum
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.14 22:46:00 -
[114]
do Logistic Cruisers count like normal Cruiser or arent they allowed?
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rockmeister
New Justice Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.15 07:53:00 -
[115]
I really don't see the problem with the new changes look like fun there is always a countering strategy remote tanks will be severely less effective so will ravens and other (mostly) shield tanked ships (fitting sensor boosters and ECCM) so should be alot shorter fights and not 15 minutes of shooting an no kills at all.. tho look more liek real pvp? no especially not with the beacons if there all mixed up if you want to make it look more liek real pvp perhaps allow using covops and hold off the tournement till there can be warping to gangmembers but looks ok in general
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Agmar
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.15 13:11:00 -
[116]
Sounds like it is going to be a fun tourney.
My only gripe is towards the people that are crying about isk. This is an "Alliance" tournament. If you want to make isk a non-factor, the only correct course of action would be to force everyone into rifters with tech 1 kit only... no named gear. I am not trying to sound condescending, but the playing field in game is not level. Why should it be in an alliance tournament?
That is like saying that black kids shouldn't be allowed to play in March Madness (linkified for the euros) just because they are better athletes.
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Andor Traxel
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2007.06.15 17:48:00 -
[117]
Originally by: The Judge This will just be another tournament based on tanks.
Anybody with some common sense will know that nearly every fight is going to be a navy raven/rattlesnake with a crystal set, with support fitted with shield transfers. Watching that over and over again isn't exacley good tv.
-Implants need to be removed -Armor/Shield maintenance drones/mods removed -EW removed
Those 3 changes would make fights alot fairer, and alot more interesting to watch.
Ooooohh a crystal fitted Rattlesnake, please bring it, I love watching big expensive explosions.
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.15 18:39:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 15/06/2007 18:39:49 Dear GM Nova,
Please reconsider the point cost distribution for battlecruisers and battleships.
It is a general consensus among the community that the various tiers of these ship classes are not equal in power. While battleships are still relatively close together, due to having serious variation in their roles and bonuses (for the most part), the battlecruisers in particular show a significant gap. The Tier 2 battlecruisers are just flat-out better, and significantly so, than their Tier 1 counterparts. There is no reason at all to ever bring a Cyclone over a Hurricane, or a Ferox over a Drake, and so on. Even the Brutix, considered the currently strongest Tier 1 battlecruiser, will be left far far behind by the Myrmidon with the advent of tech 2 logistics and sentry drones.
With this in mind, I would ask you and your team to discuss again and reevaluate the point cost of these ships (unless this has already been done before). Especially with the larger point base and cost numbers you are running this tournament, minute variations in cost are easily made without completely over- or underpricing that ship class.
I would like to recommend the following split-up:
Battleships: Tier 1, 26 points; Tier 2, 27 points; Tier 3, 28 points. This is an average around the current number of 27. Alternatively, they could be rated 27, 28, 29 instead.
Battlecruisers: Tier 1, 18 points as now; Tier 2, 20 points.
As an additional modification, I would explicitly disallow rookie ships and industrials from the tournament. Else people may be tempted to field them as a joke like in the last tournament, and will end up breaking the rules (these ships are not listed on the point table, thus not really legal to field) by accident.
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QwaarJet
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.06.15 19:54:00 -
[119]
Edited by: QwaarJet on 15/06/2007 19:54:11 I've already talked to a couple of alliances who have withdrawn due to the rules.
I say again(and this is the majority view as far as I can tell)
No pilot registering will be chaos, and will also remove exclusivity from the tournament. Now any Joe can enter at any time.
Having Battleships all the same points is crazy, also having command ships cost the same as Battleships.
Having all this beacon crap is rubbish. Keep it simple, and have it the way it was before. Extend the arena if you must, but it was fine before. No need to fix something that ain't broken.
Preferably disallow target jamming. It brings an unwanted element of luck into something that is supposed to be about skill. You say you want it to be more like real combat. Guess what? Real combat has less skill involved than the Tournament, that's why people love the tournament so much, because it's different. Combat on Tranq is about gankage. Gee Lok actually got it spot on.
I'm not the biggest fan of LeMonde, but he knew what the tournament was all about.
The last tournament was a perfect balance. Taking that setup and tweaking it a little I imagine would meet with higher approval than this current set of frankly crazy rules.
Whenever you come back from Holiday, I kindly suggest you take heed of the comments in this thread, and adjust the rules to reflect them.
"Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
JediLover
MASS
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Posted - 2007.06.16 01:10:00 -
[120]
randomness is good, what ever the rules as long as they are the same for all of us, it will measure something
the more random, the more options
only thing I would change is the fact anyone from alliance can fly in the tournie as its easier to be polite and cohesive when bench is smaller
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