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The next Alliance Championship - The Rules

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GM Nova	Posted - 2007.05.21 16:34:00 - [1] Hi everyone. As you may or may not know, I am in charge of the next Alliance Tournament. I have at my disposal a team of wonderful people who have been assisting me in the design, from various departments within CCP. The next tournament is going to be the most exciting ever as we will try to make it resemble real PvP as much as possible. However, due to technical and game design issues we will have to make concessions, like for instance not allowing players to warp within the grid. This is something we really wanted to allow but are not able at this point. The main reason for this is manpower. Revelations 2 is coming soon and we do not have the programming time to do the things we would most want to do. I promise you though that all forms of tactics will be used. The system allows for very flexible setups and will not favour any one form of tactics. The next Alliance Tournament is scheduled to be held August 17. 2007. The rules are ready for your feedback and for the most part are final. The tournament will be infused more into the storyline and thus there are things we will not reveal at this time. Best regards, GM Nova Senior Game Master


GM Nova	Posted - 2007.05.21 16:36:00 - [2] Fourth Alliance Tournament: Rules General 1. This is a bracket tournament with eight brackets, four teams in each bracket, for a total number of 64 teams. 2. The 32 teams with the highest points scored advance to the next round. 3. Alliances can field up to ten pilots on the battlefield. The team does not have to be announced beforehand. Any alliance member can fight at any time. 4. Alliances will be allowed entry on a first-come first-serve basis. 5. A pilot cannot compete on behalf of more than one alliance at a time. 6. All competing pilots must be members of the alliance they are competing at the time they fight. 7. Fights are limited to 15 minutes in the first round. After that the fight will be stopped and whichever alliance has destroyed ships with a higher number of total point worth will be declared winner. 8. In the elimination rounds, fights will be stopped after 20 minutes if both teams still have ships on the battlefield. The winners will be declared based on the following: 8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins. 8.2. If both teams have destroyed equal amounts total point worth, the team which advanced from the brackets with a higher total score will advance. 9. Pod-killing another player is allowed. Place and Tactics 1. Teams are brought to a star system in uncharted space. Once there they will be assigned a color, red or blue. 2. There are six red beacons and six blue beacons in the system. Teams will choose a beacon to assemble at, red beacon for the red team and blue beacon for the blue team. 3. Once the word is given, teams warp in to the arena from whichever beacon they assembled, at a range they prefer. Team members are allowed to warp in at different ranges. 4. The arena will measure a 250 km radius. 5. The center of the arena holds an inactive warp disruption field. After the teams have warped in to the arena, there is a 30 second standoff, where no pilot may move or lock the opponent. 6. When the warp disruption field is activated, the fight starts. 7. If a player warps out/leaves the arena, His/her departure will be counted as a ship kill. If that player warps back in, all his systems will be neutralized. (All modules offlined) 8. Warping within the arena is not allowed. 9. Dropping secure or insecure cargo containers is not allowed. Dropping regular jettison containers is allowed. 10. Locking the enemy team before the match starts is NOT allowed. 11. Moving ships to improve positions before the match starts is NOT allowed. Ships 1. Each team has 100 points to select their ships. 2. Each team may have up to 10 ships on the battlefield. 3. Unused points will be added to the opponents score. 3. The ship points table is as follows: Battleship, Faction-----37 Battleship --------------27 Battlecruiser, Tech2---27 Battlecruiser -----------18 Cruiser, Recon --------19 Cruiser, Tech2 --------17 Cruiser, Faction -------13 Cruiser ----------------10 Destroyer, Tech2 ------8 Destroyer --------------5 Frigate, Tech2 ---------6 Frigate, Faction --------4 Frigate ------------------3 Fitting 1. All T1 and T2 drones and modules are allowed. 2. All implants are allowed. 3. Boosters and rigs are not allowed. 4. T2 ammunition and missiles are allowed. 5. Cloaking is not allowed. 6. Target jamming modules and drones are allowed. Sensor dampening and tracking disrupting modules/drones are allowed 7. Cap Boosters are allowed 8. Faction, COSMOS, dead space and officer modules are not allowed 9. Logistics drones are allowed. Penalties 1. A player found breaking any of the above rules can be penalized in several ways, depending on the severity of their offence. 2. A player or team can be banned from competing for one or more matches. 3. A player or alliance can be banned from competing for the remainder of the tournament, and/or any future tournaments. All the best, GM Nova Senior Game Master

Vina Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:49:00 - [3] wow.... ----------------------------------- my opinion is my own.
Vina Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.21 19:52:00 - [4] a couple questions. will there be obstructions on the field and will the teams assemble at polar opposite beacons? ----------------------------------- my opinion is my own.
Hzeikiel	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:00:00 - [5] Edited by: Hzeikiel on 21/05/2007 19:59:13 nvm found it
Bite it	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:04:00 - [6] Goodie
viceman Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:18:00 - [7] hmm hmmm hmmmm can we bust your tourney party and kill everyone --------------------- Ex-benwallace :P I am back foo!
Entarii Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:22:00 - [8] this space for rent
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:27:00 - [9] Information request: * Is the warp disruption field of the type that negates warping inside it, or is it of the type that negates warping to a point inside it? I.e. is it Mobile Warp Disruptor or Deadspace of nature. * Will top qualifiers from previous tournament get a first call on whether to participate or are they on first-come-first-serve as well? Opinion: * With the pod-killing, I do hope you are aware that the tournament will be more than ever about who has the money to replace implants than skill. I.e. the wealthy will be favoured even more drastically than the skilled. - EVE is sick.
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:33:00 - [10] 250km bubble sounds like, and it explicitly says no warping on objects inside the arena (as if you could while scrambled anyway ;) Hope there won't be graphical effect for the bubble, or peope eyes will..go...a..bit..odd..
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.21 20:40:00 - [11] Better stock up on those slave sets. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.21 23:42:00 - [12] Veni, Vedi, Pewpew, Ibis (I came, I saw, I shot, I went broke.) --P
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.22 01:57:00 - [13] Also, prizes? I know we're competing for glory and all, and dynamic role play bull** and stuff, npc empire content, bla bla bla, whatever, but unless it's something at least as good as in one of the previous tournaments, some people won't find it worth their isk and time to compete. This tournament is going to be more consuming in times of isk for teams, and time for preparation of the bigger teams, so there should be adequate reward, yeah? Role play aside, show us some dinero tbfh. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote:** - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.22 03:06:00 - [14] Elite scorp pls. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.22 04:52:00 - [15] ok there is a HUGE problem wit the tourney date. Quote: Wii Releases: Metroid Prime 3 Corruption: Aug. 20 - Nintendo reschedual NOW. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
The Jok3r Hookers From Mars	Posted - 2007.05.22 05:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Kayosoni ok there is a HUGE problem wit the tourney date. Quote: Wii Releases: Metroid Prime 3 Corruption: Aug. 20 - Nintendo reschedual NOW. so so sad.... I might have told you more than I know... "Dont speak english... Ctrl Q Ctrl Q "
ookke	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:12:00 - [17] will the warp disruption field stop people from warping out their pods after losing their ships? why no rigs, why no cosmos? I assume it's not cost issues, seeing as you plan on people getting podded with HG sets. Any restrictions on multiple ships of same type?
Sirr Hammer Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:20:00 - [18] tho there is many slots the first come serv rule .is wrong in so many ways ..and what about the issues whit teams not shoving up or attending whit half teams .that was a big problem last time. and a waste of time for the teams that was using there time to be ready .hope u implement some hewy penelty. as this is as mutch a event for ppl not in the turnement as for those that is ...and teams not having a chance to win .shoving up in frigs or t1 crusers . or not shoving at all .. is not a good turnement,,so plz make this a good turnement .put in fines for aliances that dosent fill there teams or dosent show up...regards sirr hammer
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.22 08:41:00 - [19] Originally by: ookke will the warp disruption field stop people from warping out their pods after losing their ships? why no rigs, why no cosmos? I assume it's not cost issues, seeing as you plan on people getting podded with HG sets. Any restrictions on multiple ships of same type? there are cosmos items that are equal to officer. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.22 08:49:00 - [20] Originally by: Kayosoni there are cosmos items that are equal to officer. Wrong. (Sorry.) Oh, and BTW: there are officer items that are worse than tech-2 (check out Thon's modified resistance amps some time). Under your system, then, does this mean we need to ban tech-2? Disallowing COSMOS is ridiculous, especially in the face of allowing podding. You cannot possibly justify it as trying to reduce the cost of entry. So how do you justify it? Are the lower fittings and very rare better-than-t2 stats (i.e., 'Motte' CPR) really that game-breaking? --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.22 08:51:00 - [21] Originally by: Sirr Hammer tho there is many slots the first come serv rule .is wrong in so many ways ..and what about the issues whit teams not shoving up or attending whit half teams .that was a big problem last time. and a waste of time for the teams that was using there time to be ready .hope u implement some hewy penelty. as this is as mutch a event for ppl not in the turnement as for those that is ...and teams not having a chance to win .shoving up in frigs or t1 crusers . or not shoving at all .. is not a good turnement,,so plz make this a good turnement .put in fines for aliances that dosent fill there teams or dosent show up...regards sirr hammer I recall zero no-shows and only one or two partial-shows from the last tournament. You're thinking of the one before THAT, which was plagued with the problem. They solved it nicely in the most-recent one with a refundable "deposit". --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.22 09:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Kayosoni there are cosmos items that are equal to officer. Wrong. (Sorry.) Oh, and BTW: there are officer items that are worse than tech-2 (check out Thon's modified resistance amps some time). Under your system, then, does this mean we need to ban tech-2? Disallowing COSMOS is ridiculous, especially in the face of allowing podding. You cannot possibly justify it as trying to reduce the cost of entry. So how do you justify it? Are the lower fittings and very rare better-than-t2 stats (i.e., 'Motte' CPR) really that game-breaking? --P fail ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai

CCP Sharkbait	Posted - 2007.05.22 10:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Morris Falter 250km bubble sounds like, and it explicitly says no warping on objects inside the arena (as if you could while scrambled anyway ;) Hope there won't be graphical effect for the bubble, or peope eyes will..go...a..bit..odd.. the bubble will be a small bubble but i will change it's range alittle. the graphical effect will remain the same as a small bubble.

QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.22 15:22:00 - [24] Some seriously screwed up rules. The rules were fine last time, and frankly 10 ships a side is WAY too much. Also, the extended arena is a problem. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
ookke	Posted - 2007.05.22 16:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Kayosoni fail That's most likely going to be a database ghost, just like there is Luther Veron's large shield extenders and Shaqil's modified EANM. Both are cosmos characters and the items exist in the db but nowhere to be seen on TQ. Maybe possibly a rare one-off reward from an agent like akemons, but that's not the point... 99% of cosmos is barely better or equal to t2. Back on topic, I think these rules need serious rework. If the teams pick beacons of the opposite sides of the system, does this mean we are looking at 200km start ranges with no sling shots allowed? ECM (mainly modules) and remote repair drones have never been a good idea for the tournaments, they slow down everything and make it boring and messy to watch. I'm not sure i've understood the warp disruption field right... you fight in there, then die and wait for someone to pod you because you can't warp out? Oh, the realism :p The points table seems weird too... are you sure you want a faction battleship to cost 1.5 times a tier 3 bs pointwise? What about differentiating tier1/tier2 BC:s? Any last-second limits planned coming up on multiple nano-recons?
Sally Sheep	Posted - 2007.05.22 16:47:00 - [26]
Major Stormer Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.22 17:02:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Sharkbait Originally by: Morris Falter 250km bubble sounds like, and it explicitly says no warping on objects inside the arena (as if you could while scrambled anyway ;) Hope there won't be graphical effect for the bubble, or peope eyes will..go...a..bit..odd.. the bubble will be a small bubble but i will change it's range alittle. the graphical effect will remain the same as a small bubble. For the love of god dont make it the same effect. I can just about put up with the awful effect at the odd times I see one ingame, let alone see it during a entire tourney, peoples eyes will explode.
Aakron Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.22 17:41:00 - [28] a 250km bubble seems to guarantee you lose your pod? Is this really a necessary step as progressing through multiple fights seems to favour those with hoardes of isk rather than better tactics ---
DeddyMassive Academy of War	Posted - 2007.05.22 17:46:00 - [29] Noooooooooo! Any chance you can bring the tourney forward just a week? OK..OK..you ain't going to change it just for me, but for the sake of all the people who've been planning for this event since the last tourney(and ones before..) most of us would of expected a 6 month time scale. This puts it at 8 1/2 months since the last tourney and right when I'm on holiday. And I suspect a few other tounrey favs who'll of pushed all their RL plans away from June & July. Bizarre timing for RL or storyline rational (other than the excuse of tournament organisation apathy) for why this 'regular' sporting event would be so out of kilter. You deployed Revelations less than a week before the last tourney so TQ playability & employees over worked issues can't be a excuse surtely?! Like the points & rules except... No Cosmos mods & Podding. Seems odd you CAN'T splash out on moderately expensive but readily available modules that increase the competative capability of lower skilled pilots(not MY problem of course.. I'm into them for the CPU ) but you CAN buy rare and expensive as heck faction implants & also be expected to lose them to a nanoed smart bombing yoyo. I thought murder wasn't condoned in the tournament? If you want to be this strict on mods/death, can I suggest you have SISI style 'sells everything for 100ISK' stations in whatever part of Jove space you hold the tourney. Provide a jump clone at an appropriate team station(for the duration of the tourney), then allow players an hour or two set up times for their fights. It'd level the playing field for one thing(maybe increase entry cost to offset ISK lost losing). Be a true test of setup skills. Surely increase interest in participation from those that otherwise couldn't lose the ISK. And, you'd have to do no ship scanning thus making your jobs easier Please reconsider Logistics drones too..I'd happily use/kill them, but it leads the way for no skill turtle tanks and looooooooooooong nothing is happeing matches like the 3rd tourney final. Have I mention recently I've got an Impoc killmail
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.22 20:41:00 - [30] Originally by: Kayosoni Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Kayosoni there are cosmos items that are equal to officer. Wrong. (Sorry.) Oh, and BTW: there are officer items that are worse than tech-2 (check out Thon's modified resistance amps some time). Under your system, then, does this mean we need to ban tech-2? Disallowing COSMOS is ridiculous, especially in the face of allowing podding. You cannot possibly justify it as trying to reduce the cost of entry. So how do you justify it? Are the lower fittings and very rare better-than-t2 stats (i.e., 'Motte' CPR) really that game-breaking? --P fail Epic forum failure right back atcha, bud--that doesn't drop. Find me a Shaqil's EANM, while you're at it. I repeat my earlier statement--disallowing COSMOS is ridiculous. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.22 20:53:00 - [31] Edited by: Waragha on 22/05/2007 20:54:48 These rules are extremely random. 250 km range with random warp in beacons equals starting positions of up to 200km apart. Heck you might even land on top of each others. Long range setups ? What if you are up against a nanofag team? Nanofag team vs. tanked / closerange? This plus the allowed ECM will pretty much make this the most random tourny yet. It wont be about who comes up with the most "globablly" valid tactics it will be who pulls the longest straw most times. Some other interesting pointers: People complain that pirate implants are too expensive in tourny (not a problem for myself though) - You allow podding w. a 250km warp bubble. People dislike the randomness of ECM - You allow ECM. I don't know honestly . I really dislike these rules
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.22 20:55:00 - [32] Any chance at all that we scrap these rules and make a consortium of some of the players who have actually been in the tourny and pvps on a regular basis? You gather up some of the main players and they will do the job for you. Complete openess about it is required though, possibly with some democracy so they don't get a head start

GM Nova	Posted - 2007.05.22 22:21:00 - [33] Originally by: Waragha These rules are extremely random. You hit the nail on the head. They were designed specifically with that in mind. Real PvP is also pretty random. It's actually alot like opening a chrismas present, you seldom know what you are going to get. That's all for now. I will adress your concerns regarding the warp bubble (I never said 250km bubble, more like 25km rad) and pod kills tomorrow. Thank you all for your input.

QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.23 01:11:00 - [34] Why go for more like real PvP? The tournament was always the ultimate test of skill, and having it resemble standard PvP brings way too many elements of luck into it. Everyone i've talked to (mainly tournament pilots like myself) sya they want the small arena back. It's simply more fun and better test of skill. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.23 02:41:00 - [35] The "more like real pvp" is incorrent... this will just be a different kind of fake pvp. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Michayel Lyon The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.23 02:54:00 - [36] If I wanted real PvP, I'd log into the game and go find some real PvP (which, by the way, I do - frequently). The alliance tourney should be something else completely. --- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions GM Xamother: "Beeing online is not considered harassment or exploit."
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.23 06:02:00 - [37] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: Waragha These rules are extremely random. You hit the nail on the head. They were designed specifically with that in mind. Real PvP is also pretty random. It's actually alot like opening a chrismas present, you seldom know what you are going to get. That's all for now. I will adress your concerns regarding the warp bubble (I never said 250km bubble, more like 25km rad) and pod kills tomorrow. Thank you all for your input. Appreciate the reply even though i was a bit whiney. I see what you're saying, but im not sure if this is going to be fun to watch / play in then. I'd say close to 50% of the matches will be walkovers with rougly equal teams (the fun matches) and the stalemates (not so fun) comprising the rest. Also, how do you feel about not allowing the whole alliance to participate now that we have so many more "variables"?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.23 06:26:00 - [38] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: Waragha These rules are extremely random. You hit the nail on the head. They were designed specifically with that in mind. Real PvP is also pretty random. It's actually alot like opening a chrismas present, you seldom know what you are going to get. That's all for now. I will adress your concerns regarding the warp bubble (I never said 250km bubble, more like 25km rad) and pod kills tomorrow. Thank you all for your input. Out of interest, will the tourny be held in range of Mothership jump drives? Trust me, a tournament that is striving for "real PvP" is never going to make it. Real PvP is all about overwhelming the enemy either with surprise or odds - preferably both. Drop a couple of motherships on them to even out the numbers, chase them across several systems, and so on. Real PvP is a completely different sort of fun - with the strict exception of POS hugging, which isn't fun - that you'll be unable to capture in the tournament's sterile environment. And seriously, don't make it a game of who's got the most money win. And for the love of all that's good, don't make it a match where the loser ends up losing several hundred millions in implants (per participant) just because they wanted to be competitive (but didn't make it). - EVE is sick.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.23 08:08:00 - [39] Edited by: QwaarJet on 23/05/2007 08:06:45 Agreed on the last several posts. This whole thing needs serious rethinking. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.23 08:52:00 - [40] Srsly, the tournament should be about who can come up with the best strategy and stick with it while being a little adaptable. First off, you say you want this to be like real pvp, and want to have no setup favored. well you fail at both. This is not going to be anything like real pvp. Allow me to explain: Real pvp setup Tourney setup quite simple there. In real pvp you can warp out, change systems, people that aren't warp scrambled will usually live. Setups are completely different from what they are in a tourney. Logistic drones and ships are in the game almost specifically for the tourney. They have almost no other use, certainly not in real pvp. Real pvp does not start at a pre-determined range and place. Real pvp does not allow people to not warp out. The tournament is about bragging rights and e-peen, glory and shame. Real pvp (conquering territory) has nothing to do with it. If it was about real pvp, we'd jump titans in, setup poses, and the first to get sov. is the victor. Now then, allowing ewar is probably the dumbest thing you could possibly do in this tournament, in case you ever thought it through. Do you realize what module will be the most used module? I won't say it, but it should be obvious. Think it through a little more, this is not going to be anything like real pvp. Just a different, boring, bad, flavor of fake compared to the previous 3 tournaments. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
ookke	Posted - 2007.05.23 09:00:00 - [41] Can't really say I believe in this "resembles real pvp more" randomness. Most of the fights you will get with these rules would just be horribly boring and/or one-sided due to setup/start range/EW paper-rock-scissors stuff and people being careful. I don't get the cosmos/rigs disallowing part either... Cosmos has been allowed for the last two tournaments and there never seemed to be a problem with it. Rigs I can maybe understand if you are afraid of extreme tank turtles but it seems like you gave that tactic a green light with the repair bots anyway. If you want faster matches then ban ECM and repair bots.
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.23 09:04:00 - [42] EWar is not fun. It's not fun to use, to be subject to, or to watch. EWar should have no place in this tournament. ---- I solemnly vow never to check the date of a topic or post.
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.23 13:35:00 - [43] Nice rules : I hope it gets interesting. But please please reconsider the usage of implants. It only allows the big alliances to win since the small ones just can't compete due to the lack of isk. Normally I'd like my own alliance to join in but with the current implant rule we might aswell not even sign up since we have no chance to win without implants Also please keep a close eye on "phantom alliances". With this I mean alliances that suddenly get "revived" 1 week before the tournament. If I remember correctly quite a few alliances did this so they had multiple groups fighting under different banners while they actually were from the same alliance. I know it'll be hard to check but please do try. Thanks
Damir36 Gallente PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.23 14:10:00 - [44] HeHe, but why the the restriction to 10 Players? just leave the shippoints. I would like to see seme ppl getting swarmed bei 32 Tech II fittet Tech I frigs (plus one Assfrig for the max points) Ok, not totally serious, but maybe a little? Grn¯e Damir Beware: German Link!:) Deutschprachige Piloten gesucht
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.23 14:15:00 - [45] Edited by: Pilk on 23/05/2007 14:13:49 A lot of hostility in these replies (including my own), but I do want to take a moment to THANK YOU for posting the rules early enough that we can post constructive criticism and tailor our skill plans and pilots' role assignments accordingly. (/me takes Neurotoxin Recovery V off his skill plan. ) --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.23 15:37:00 - [46] Originally by: RedClaws Nice rules : I hope it gets interesting. But please please reconsider the usage of implants. It only allows the big alliances to win since the small ones just can't compete due to the lack of isk. Normally I'd like my own alliance to join in but with the current implant rule we might aswell not even sign up since we have no chance to win without implants Also please keep a close eye on "phantom alliances". With this I mean alliances that suddenly get "revived" 1 week before the tournament. If I remember correctly quite a few alliances did this so they had multiple groups fighting under different banners while they actually were from the same alliance. I know it'll be hard to check but please do try. Thanks Why? What if i like making a smaller team for the duration of the tourny and then go back to my corp afterwards? Why shouldn't i be allowed to do that?
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.23 16:08:00 - [47] Originally by: Waragha Originally by: RedClaws Nice rules : I hope it gets interesting. But please please reconsider the usage of implants. It only allows the big alliances to win since the small ones just can't compete due to the lack of isk. Normally I'd like my own alliance to join in but with the current implant rule we might aswell not even sign up since we have no chance to win without implants Also please keep a close eye on "phantom alliances". With this I mean alliances that suddenly get "revived" 1 week before the tournament. If I remember correctly quite a few alliances did this so they had multiple groups fighting under different banners while they actually were from the same alliance. I know it'll be hard to check but please do try. Thanks Why? What if i like making a smaller team for the duration of the tourny and then go back to my corp afterwards? Why shouldn't i be allowed to do that? I think the idea is for you to represent your alliance not be some fleet of ringers, have some pride. I motion for it to be held in 0.0 this time, I prefer spending my security status on busting gatecamps. Also Known As
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.23 16:10:00 - [48] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Waragha Originally by: RedClaws Nice rules : I hope it gets interesting. But please please reconsider the usage of implants. It only allows the big alliances to win since the small ones just can't compete due to the lack of isk. Normally I'd like my own alliance to join in but with the current implant rule we might aswell not even sign up since we have no chance to win without implants Also please keep a close eye on "phantom alliances". With this I mean alliances that suddenly get "revived" 1 week before the tournament. If I remember correctly quite a few alliances did this so they had multiple groups fighting under different banners while they actually were from the same alliance. I know it'll be hard to check but please do try. Thanks Why? What if i like making a smaller team for the duration of the tourny and then go back to my corp afterwards? Why shouldn't i be allowed to do that? I think the idea is for you to represent your alliance not be some fleet of ringers, have some pride. I motion for it to be held in 0.0 this time, I prefer spending my security status on busting gatecamps. Well, you're loosing out on alot of teams then. And i don't see what it should matter if i represtent lol_2007_alliance that will disband next week or one i've made for the occasion.
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.23 18:44:00 - [49] Well outbreak isn't in an alliance but lets say that 10 of us from IRC join the tournament but we make a new alliance called IRC2 and put 10 members inthere that will also join the tourny. That gives us a clear advantage over other alliance that don't "cheat" since we can afford to lose and still have our B-Team
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.23 20:40:00 - [50] Edited by: Waragha on 23/05/2007 20:42:18 Edited by: Waragha on 23/05/2007 20:41:49 Originally by: RedClaws Well outbreak isn't in an alliance but lets say that 10 of us from IRC join the tournament but we make a new alliance called IRC2 and put 10 members inthere that will also join the tourny. That gives us a clear advantage over other alliance that don't "cheat" since we can afford to lose and still have our B-Team Sure if you can afford the isk for two teams, even then, with these extremely random rules you have a very little chance of winning. Also you can only chose THOSE 10 people (vs. all the alliances that can choose from several thousand people). Nobody's ever "covered their bases" by having two teams, only lost money. The spare BoB teams or what ever havent made it past the qualifiers, sooo.. I really can't see your point? Do you have any facts to back up your opinion? Moar edit The last two alliances have hit no where NEAR max allowed teams. What was it? Forty last year? And remember the sweeping forfeiths / teams not showing up the year before that? Yeah that was fun :) I think we all enjoyed the waiting for teams who where *** enough not to send a mail saying they wheren't coming.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.23 21:51:00 - [51] A big meh to all of this. I predict a lot of zzzz with these rules, both for those that watch it and those that take part. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.24 08:50:00 - [52] How to have a realistic artifical combat.. its a very tough situation. Also, to make it broadcastable live.. again tough. If you were to introduce an arena spanning several systems (more akin to normal pvp situations) then combat would have to be recorded and broadcasted once the round is resolved.. but the result will be known before the broadcast. Is that a bad thing? The result isnt the end objective I suppose, its the fun of the event that should be the focus. How about introducing tasks for the teams? Such as.. escorting a freighter, breaking a camp, blocking a choke point, deploying a POS under fire, defending a capital ship under construction.. would be more interesting perhaps than this bizarre and artifical isk "gratification" that is the tournament at the moment. Speaking from my own experience, these kind of operations have been the most fun from "real" pvp situations, and I'm sure they'd be good viewing. Just a thought.
ookke	Posted - 2007.05.24 09:28:00 - [53] Originally by: Morris Falter How about introducing tasks for the teams? Such as.. escorting a freighter, breaking a camp, blocking a choke point, deploying a POS under fire, defending a capital ship under construction.. would be more interesting perhaps than this bizarre and artifical isk "gratification" that is the tournament at the moment. Speaking from my own experience, these kind of operations have been the most fun from "real" pvp situations, and I'm sure they'd be good viewing. Just a thought. You can already find this kind of stuff on the video forums when people remember to turn on fraps. 10 vs 10 pos defense tournament would be a bit... weak in my opinion. If you make it bigger scale then it's uh... known as TQ alliance pvp? The alliance tournament has always been small scale pvp, so setting objectives where normally the whole alliance is involved in doesn't make sense. CCP have also given the impression that they want to keep the tournament participants within one grid and without warping around to keep the extra coding work to the minimum.
Seegers	Posted - 2007.05.24 09:38:00 - [54] The only problem i have with the rules are the implants. There aren't a lot of people that pvp with a full high-grade implant set, so allowing them in the tournament does not really resemble 'normal' pvp. Coupled with the fact that it gives the alliance with the most isk a big advantage, i think they should not be allowed. As for ECM and logistics drones, those are used in 'normal' pvp, and i think it could make the fights more interesting.
ookke	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:16:00 - [55] Originally by: Seegers The only problem i have with the rules are the implants. There aren't a lot of people that pvp with a full high-grade implant set, so allowing them in the tournament does not really resemble 'normal' pvp. Coupled with the fact that it gives the alliance with the most isk a big advantage, i think they should not be allowed. As for ECM and logistics drones, those are used in 'normal' pvp, and i think it could make the fights more interesting. There aren't a lot of people out of an alliance that participate in the tournament either, it's not a big effort to get enough isk to buy a HG/LG mixed set for each participant. Bringing ships like Corvus and Storm out without pirate sets would be kind of contradicting, it has never been about affordability. You send your best pilots with the best ships, setups and implants you can get. What you are thinking of is probably more what the corp tourney was supposed to be about, alliance tournament for corps without pirate sets and faction ships.
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:30:00 - [56] What's the reasoning behind 'no warping within the area'? ------ Agony Unleashed is recruiting.
ookke	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:59:00 - [57] Read the OP... Originally by: GM Nova However, due to technical and game design issues we will have to make concessions, like for instance not allowing players to warp within the grid. This is something we really wanted to allow but are not able at this point. The main reason for this is manpower. Revelations 2 is coming soon and we do not have the programming time to do the things we would most want to do.
RedClaws Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.05.24 13:35:00 - [58] Edited by: RedClaws on 24/05/2007 13:35:35 Originally by: Waragha Sure if you can afford the isk for two teams, even then, with these extremely random rules you have a very little chance of winning. Thats my point : I'd like small alliance to be able to compete as well. Saying that creating multiple teams is ok if you have the money is even counterproductive to my intentions. Originally by: Waragha Also you can only chose THOSE 10 people (vs. all the alliances that can choose from several thousand people). Well in my example I did indeed say that 10 people would be moving but it can be 100 people just as easily. Originally by: Waragha Nobody's ever "covered their bases" by having two teams, only lost money. The spare BoB teams or what ever havent made it past the qualifiers, sooo.. I really can't see your point? Do you have any facts to back up your opinion? I'm not so sure about the "only lost money" statement. Lets say team A has a bad day and loses: that would be the end of the alliance's participation in the tourny. Now if the alliance also had a team B they can still keep participating : you can't deny that it's unfair to have a second chance compared to alliances that only field 1 team, right? The fact that the spare BoB teams never made it far doesn't matter to be honest. It's the principle thats wrong. I'm also not quite sure with what you mean about backing up my opinion. It's my opinion and I'm quite sure I have it But just to set things right : this isn't directed at BoB personally because IIRC there were plenty of big alliances doing the same. Originally by: Waragha The last two alliances have hit no where NEAR max allowed teams. What was it? Forty last year? And remember the sweeping forfeiths / teams not showing up the year before that? Yeah that was fun :) I think we all enjoyed the waiting for teams who where *** enough not to send a mail saying they wheren't coming. The forfeiths aren't that much of an issue anymore due to last year's deposit rule. I do however understand your worries that not allowing multiple teams to participate will cause the number of teams to drop considerable. I'm hoping that if this rule (not being allowed to use "phantom alliances") when combined with the "no pirate implants" rule, would encourage more smaller alliances to participate.
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:30:00 - [59] Originally by: RedClaws Edited by: RedClaws on 24/05/2007 13:35:35 ... Originally by: Waragha Nobody's ever "covered their bases" by having two teams, only lost money. The spare BoB teams or what ever havent made it past the qualifiers, sooo.. I really can't see your point? Do you have any facts to back up your opinion? I'm not so sure about the "only lost money" statement. Lets say team A has a bad day and loses: that would be the end of the alliance's participation in the tourny. Now if the alliance also had a team B they can still keep participating : you can't deny that it's unfair to have a second chance compared to alliances that only field 1 team, right? ... The chance of winning is so small especially with these rules (10 players, full alliance rooster, no warping whilst allowing podding, 250km bubble). The ISK/reward of getting top 3 makes it more interesting to have more teams rather than eliminating these 2 or 3 extra teams in the tourny.
Pattern Clarc Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:44:00 - [60] Patterns vertict.... Alliance Rules.... Ewar Epic failure... Between all the jamming and sensor damping, who is going to actually shoot again? (arnt these fights suppost to be fun to watch and a good advert for the game??? Ewar the last time i remember it wasn't) Pod Killing Epic Failure.... I kinda liked the idea that an alliance (no matter how wealthly it was) could potencially commit a few billion to it's best pilots, in order to compete. Pod killing only means that only the richest alliances/pilots can do this (the personal isk of alot of pilots in the higher tier alliaces can fund several sets of high grade implants) No rigs or boosters Epic failure.... With all the time and effort going into introducing these features, it's ******* hilarious that now you realise how unbalnaced they can make ships if used correctly. With the new point system anyway, all it takes is 10 remote repping battleships with sensor boosters/eccm to ensure no one will die... No faction/event ships/prizes. Failure... This was my number 1 motivation for taking part... Nevermind Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
DeddyMassive Academy of War	Posted - 2007.05.24 17:59:00 - [61] I do believe Mr. Clarc hit the iron pin on the crown with that post (except the exclusion of a wtf no COSMOS?!?!) Have I mention recently I've got an Impoc killmail
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.24 18:20:00 - [62] Nova, surely this negative response is enough for a serious rethink on the rules? "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Tequilapepper Amarr Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.24 18:49:00 - [63] Bad rules this time and bad timing, but this is my opinion: -That date expect loads of people to be in holiday, changing 1-2 weeks won't change the result -Allowin Ew = we'll see just caldari, that will screw up other race specialists. Is this that you want? -250km bubble with podding allowed = automatic podding -No difference in points needed from a tier III and a tier I? Seriously? I feel really bad for this... too bad :\| regards Teq FIX Grunt
Christina Bamar Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.24 21:49:00 - [64] Hmmm, so if I'm reading the rules correctly then the teams with the most points killed in the first round will move on to the second? Considering the number of friendly/alt alliances that could be involved is this really a good idea? If you base it off of win/loss record and two friendly or alt alliances fight then they at least need to make a decision as to who will get the win and move along. If you're going off of points scored then two friendly/alt alliances can just destroy every one of each others ships, short of a single frig and help BOTH of the teams move on to the next round. It would make far more sense to go off of a simple win/loss record and at least make people with multiple entries make a decision as to which teams progresses, instead of giving them a massive advantage by allowing them to boost both teams scores at once.

GM Nova	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:22:00 - [65] Thank you all for your input. I strongly urge you all to carefully read what I posted. Nowhere does it say 250km bubble and you can't field 10 battleships. The bubble would be 25 km radius at the most, we may even skip it. I will most definitely take your suggestions into consideration. I will however not turn this into a tanking competition. Regarding the rewards, they will be quite substantial and will benefit not only the team but the whole alliance behind the team. We are still hammering out the details on this and thus we have not presented it to you. We may want to get you all who posted here into the test server in two weeks time, to test the new rules, using EVE voice of course. Please take the time to study the point system. Set it up in an excel sheet and see what setups you can come up with. Put those setups forth in this tread and others can then come up with setups to counter what has been set forth. I really hope you will try this with an open mind. I will be unavailable for the next two weeks so my apologies in advance for the lack of replies during that time. Take care. Nova

Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:33:00 - [66] Originally by: GM Nova Put those setups forth in this tread and others can then come up with setups to counter what has been set forth. 8 Blackbirds, 2 Celestis. Blackbirds coordinate jamming of the entire enemy team (2x signal distortion amp, 6 jammers apiece). If anyone is not jammed, the Celestises damp them into submission. Especially effective against very small teams (three-BS teams, for example), loses some effectiveness against larger teams, and is pretty much useless against drone-based teams (unless--do drones auto-aggro even when you aggress their owner from outside control range? I've never checked.). The damage output is a joke, but who cares? You basically can't die, especially if you then push it over the top by fitting one or two logistics modules in the BBs' high slots. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
YouShouldRun	Posted - 2007.05.24 23:04:00 - [67] Just curious, would it be possible to have this near a moon or are we all being moved out to a deep safe somewhere in Jove space?
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.05.24 23:14:00 - [68] Originally by: GM Nova Thank you all for your input. I strongly urge you all to carefully read what I posted. Nowhere does it say 250km bubble and you can't field 10 battleships. The bubble would be 25 km radius at the most, we may even skip it. I will most definitely take your suggestions into consideration. I will however not turn this into a tanking competition. Regarding the rewards, they will be quite substantial and will benefit not only the team but the whole alliance behind the team. We are still hammering out the details on this and thus we have not presented it to you. We may want to get you all who posted here into the test server in two weeks time, to test the new rules, using EVE voice of course. Please take the time to study the point system. Set it up in an excel sheet and see what setups you can come up with. Put those setups forth in this tread and others can then come up with setups to counter what has been set forth. I really hope you will try this with an open mind. I will be unavailable for the next two weeks so my apologies in advance for the lack of replies during that time. Take care. Nova That post was pointless. You never addressed any responses. People are complaing about EW being allowed and the large arena. If people want this changed, shouldn't you be changing it instead of being stubborn? "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Tigertex Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.05.25 00:06:00 - [69] Edited by: Tigertex on 25/05/2007 00:06:01 While i like some of the new rules the others in my opinion are not what the this Tournament is all about. This Tournament is about seeing expensive things blow up and seeing who is the best of the best. With the current rules it is more likely to be who can jam first or who can dampen faster. Last Tournament The Five team was beaten by being out dampened and it left for a very uninteresting fight, but was a well thought out tactic by our opponents (hats off to them) with these knew rules you will know the winner with second of the match starting, the fastest on the draw wins and that is not going to make good EVE TV. We want to blow expensive things up and people want to see us blow expensive things up, we want close fights where ships are being destroyed on both side. Anyone that would enter this Tournament is trying to show that they and their alliance is the best and therefore they need to put their money where their mouth is, so it should not be a cheap thing to do. But anyway i will give my version of what i would like to see as rules General 1. This is a bracket tournament with eight brackets, four teams in each bracket, for a total number of 64 teams. 2. The 32 teams with the highest points scored advance to the next round. 3. Alliances can field up to ten pilots on the battlefield. The team is made up for 10 players. 4. Alliances will be allowed entry on a first-come first-serve basis. 5. A pilot cannot compete on behalf of more than one alliance at a time. 6. All competing pilots must be members of the alliance they are competing at the time they fight. 7. Fights are limited to 15 minutes in the first round. After that the fight will be stopped and whichever alliance has destroyed ships with a higher number of total point worth will be declared winner. 8. In the elimination rounds, fights will be stopped after 20 minutes if both teams still have ships on the battlefield. The winners will be declared based on the following: 8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins. 8.2. If both teams have destroyed equal amounts total point worth, the team which advanced from the brackets with a higher total score will advance. 9. Pod-killing another player is not allowed. Ships 1. Each team has 100 points to select their ships. 2. Each team may have up to 10 ships on the battlefield. 3. Unused points will be added to the opponents score. 3. The ship points table is as follows: Battleship, Faction-----37 Battleship Tier 3-------34 Battleship Tier 2-------27 Battlecruiser, Tech2---27 Battleship Tier 1-------27 Battlecruiser -----------18 Cruiser, Recon --------19 Cruiser, Tech2 --------17 Cruiser, Faction -------13 Cruiser ----------------10 Destroyer, Tech2 ------8 Destroyer --------------5 Frigate, Tech2 ---------6 Frigate, Faction --------4 Frigate ------------------3 Fitting 1. All T1 and T2 drones and modules are allowed. 2. All implants are allowed. 3. Boosters and rigs are allowed. 4. T2 ammunition and missiles are allowed. 5. Cloaking is not allowed. 6. Target jamming modules and drones are not allowed. Sensor dampening and tracking disrupting modules/drones are not allowed 7. Cap Boosters are allowed 8. Faction, dead space and officer modules are not allowed 9. Logistics drones are allowed. 10.COSMOS modules are allowed I still like the idea of the big arena as i dont want to see the super tank with nos being fielded, it is not what a Tournament should be about. I know it has been used before and it is a fair tactic, i just would prefer to see something more interesting. Lots of phew phew. And while i would like to give you some ideas on setups that i have been thinking of, i dont think i will incase the rules stay as they are and i have to use them.
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.25 02:46:00 - [70] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: GM Nova Put those setups forth in this tread and others can then come up with setups to counter what has been set forth. 8 Blackbirds, 2 Celestis. Blackbirds coordinate jamming of the entire enemy team (2x signal distortion amp, 6 jammers apiece). If anyone is not jammed, the Celestises damp them into submission. Especially effective against very small teams (three-BS teams, for example), loses some effectiveness against larger teams, and is pretty much useless against drone-based teams (unless--do drones auto-aggro even when you aggress their owner from outside control range? I've never checked.). The damage output is a joke, but who cares? You basically can't die, especially if you then push it over the top by fitting one or two logistics modules in the BBs' high slots. --P Theres a counter to every tactic. Sometimes several. You mentioned drones and then theres also FoF missiles. In this case, A long range sniper 150km+ (sniper warps in at 100km and the other team happens to warp in at range from the opposite angle or sniper powers out to 150km+) would be out of the reach of jammers and damps would have little to no effect at that range. As the ewar ships fall one by one more and more of your ships can joining in and the death rate increases somewhat exponentially. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.25 04:36:00 - [71] I think faction implants should be allowed, but podding should not, makes ISK way too big a factor (being able to replace repeatedly). Or ban pirate sets (but not other implants) and allow podding. I can afford to buy replacement sets for my team, but not everyone can, any alliance can afford a single set for each team member with a little work, spare sets are an entirely different matter and favor unlimited resource teams like BoB's too much. I like the bigger teams and that anyone in alliance is a potential team member for each fight, all non-faction BS being same value is silly.. Don't really see why rigs/boosters aren't allowed, especially when pirate implants are .. (why allow snake set but not mass reduction rig? slave sets but not trimark rigs?) Don't like banning cosmos modules. Don't like ECM/damps/tracking disruptors being allowed. Should be allowed to warp within arena, so what if cameras can't follow ??? Especially with modules allowed that break your lock all the time, need warping if only to make people fit scramblers. -_- I'm pretty surprised you guys actually managed to make the rules worse, they were bad enough last time :\ http://eve.klaki.net/
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.25 04:42:00 - [72] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk I think faction implants should be allowed, but podding should not, makes ISK way too big a factor (being able to replace repeatedly). Or ban pirate sets (but not other implants) and allow podding. I can afford to buy replacement sets for my team, but not everyone can, any alliance can afford a single set for each team member with a little work, spare sets are an entirely different matter and favor unlimited resource teams like BoB's too much. I like the bigger teams and that anyone in alliance is a potential team member for each fight, all non-faction BS being same value is silly.. Don't really see why rigs/boosters aren't allowed, especially when pirate implants are .. (why allow snake set but not mass reduction rig? slave sets but not trimark rigs?) Don't like banning cosmos modules. Don't like ECM/damps/tracking disruptors being allowed. Should be allowed to warp within arena, so what if cameras can't follow ??? Especially with modules allowed that break your lock all the time, need warping if only to make people fit scramblers. -_- I'm pretty surprised you guys actually managed to make the rules worse, they were bad enough last time :\ Imo, some of your changes make it more about whoever has the most isk wins. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:36:00 - [73] Originally by: Sever Aldaria Originally by: Pilk Originally by: GM Nova Put those setups forth in this tread and others can then come up with setups to counter what has been set forth. 8 Blackbirds, 2 Celestis. Blackbirds coordinate jamming of the entire enemy team (2x signal distortion amp, 6 jammers apiece). If anyone is not jammed, the Celestises damp them into submission. Especially effective against very small teams (three-BS teams, for example), loses some effectiveness against larger teams, and is pretty much useless against drone-based teams (unless--do drones auto-aggro even when you aggress their owner from outside control range? I've never checked.). The damage output is a joke, but who cares? You basically can't die, especially if you then push it over the top by fitting one or two logistics modules in the BBs' high slots. --P Theres a counter to every tactic. Sometimes several. You mentioned drones and then theres also FoF missiles. In this case, A long range sniper 150km+ (sniper warps in at 100km and the other team happens to warp in at range from the opposite angle or sniper powers out to 150km+) would be out of the reach of jammers and damps would have little to no effect at that range. As the ewar ships fall one by one more and more of your ships can joining in and the death rate increases somewhat exponentially. FoFs? Are you going to fit a full rack of FoFs for the odd chance that someone might have that lineup? FoFs also usually target structures and drones before players, so good luck killing anything with that. Warping in at 100km - sure ... Except you don't know which beacon the other team chose and what range their are going in on. You might land right on top of each other :) And "powering" (mwd?) out to 150km in a sniper bs with mwd = no tank. By the time you're at speed you will webbed and deaded :p
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:41:00 - [74] Originally by: GM Nova Thank you all for your input. I strongly urge you all to carefully read what I posted. Nowhere does it say 250km bubble and you can't field 10 battleships. The bubble would be 25 km radius at the most, we may even skip it. I will most definitely take your suggestions into consideration. I will however not turn this into a tanking competition. Regarding the rewards, they will be quite substantial and will benefit not only the team but the whole alliance behind the team. We are still hammering out the details on this and thus we have not presented it to you. We may want to get you all who posted here into the test server in two weeks time, to test the new rules, using EVE voice of course. Please take the time to study the point system. Set it up in an excel sheet and see what setups you can come up with. Put those setups forth in this tread and others can then come up with setups to counter what has been set forth. I really hope you will try this with an open mind. I will be unavailable for the next two weeks so my apologies in advance for the lack of replies during that time. Take care. Nova Well i would love to help :P But when people have come forward with several points that we seem to agree on (this must be the first time in eve) maybe you should discuss it with us a little before you say test in two weeks of point combinations :p
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:57:00 - [75] Originally by: Sever Aldaria Imo, some of your changes make it more about whoever has the most isk wins. I don't see why, cosmos modules aren't expensive and my changes would mean you only need enough isk for a single pirate implant set per member. Whereas the rules GM Nova presents mean you need replacement implant sets for every team member... Now that's a massive advantage for rich teams. Any alliance can afford to max out in tournament I described if they're willing to invest a little into it (like last time). Only filthy filthy rich can afford to replace multiple pirate implant sets, advantage BoB. http://eve.klaki.net/
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:06:00 - [76] 10 Vexors with 5 sentry drones a piece. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Pattern Clarc Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:06:00 - [77] Originally by: GM Nova Please take the time to study the point system. Set it up in an excel sheet and see what setups you can come up with. Put those setups forth in this tread and others can then come up with setups to counter what has been set forth. The point system is kinda promising, however, the actual focus of the alliance tourney really needs to be re-thought. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:15:00 - [78] Originally by: Ifni 10 Vexors with 5 sentry drones a piece. but how would those deal with 10 stabbers ? Btw I think general consensus is EW is boring to watch hence wrong- the tourney should focus on being great to watch and unless you code a system to show who is jammed and who is jamming who then people will fall asleep watching everyone orbiting without taking damage even if when there is the finest example of jamming coordination going on. - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:30:00 - [79] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Don't really see why rigs/boosters aren't allowed Rigs should be allowed, though perhaps a restriction on t2 would be in order. Putting t2 rigs on a t1 frigate is ridiculous, yes, but some people would do it if they could, and that's a little too expensive for even my tastes. Disallowing boosters makes a lot of sense. ECM being allowed--fine, in the middle of the thrill of the fight, you have a chance of getting jammed and therefore losing. For comparison, you also have a chance of receiving a wrecking hit and therefore losing, and nobody's talking about disallowing guns. But I cannot imagine the disappointment that you'd get from popping a pill only to find out that you got a crippling side effect from it and therefore can no longer win. If boosters are allowed, you'd need several pilots for each tournament position, have them all pop pills five minutes before the match, and take the one who got hit with the fewest side effects. Not fun. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:45:00 - [80] Originally by: Waragha Originally by: Sever Aldaria Originally by: Pilk Originally by: GM Nova Put those setups forth in this tread and others can then come up with setups to counter what has been set forth. 8 Blackbirds, 2 Celestis. Blackbirds coordinate jamming of the entire enemy team (2x signal distortion amp, 6 jammers apiece). If anyone is not jammed, the Celestises damp them into submission. Especially effective against very small teams (three-BS teams, for example), loses some effectiveness against larger teams, and is pretty much useless against drone-based teams (unless--do drones auto-aggro even when you aggress their owner from outside control range? I've never checked.). The damage output is a joke, but who cares? You basically can't die, especially if you then push it over the top by fitting one or two logistics modules in the BBs' high slots. --P Theres a counter to every tactic. Sometimes several. You mentioned drones and then theres also FoF missiles. In this case, A long range sniper 150km+ (sniper warps in at 100km and the other team happens to warp in at range from the opposite angle or sniper powers out to 150km+) would be out of the reach of jammers and damps would have little to no effect at that range. As the ewar ships fall one by one more and more of your ships can joining in and the death rate increases somewhat exponentially. FoFs? Are you going to fit a full rack of FoFs for the odd chance that someone might have that lineup? FoFs also usually target structures and drones before players, so good luck killing anything with that. Warping in at 100km - sure ... Except you don't know which beacon the other team chose and what range their are going in on. You might land right on top of each other :) And "powering" (mwd?) out to 150km in a sniper bs with mwd = no tank. By the time you're at speed you will webbed and deaded :p Umm... just have some FoF's in your cargo hold. Doesn't do anything to fittings. If you're perma jammed switching to fof's and hitting something is better than tanking till you die right? To my understanding, FoF's only go after the closest thing targeting you which would include drones and players but not structures. Theres a 1:6 chance that both teams will warp in at the same point. My point by using snipers is that you can pick off ewar boats with weak tanks. The tactic suggested was that using all blackbirds and celestis = win. I don't think so, theres a greater chance that both teams won't warp in from the same point and so a sniper can shoot down the ewar cruisers from out of the reach of their ewar. I didn't say warping in at 100km = win but a sniper out of ewar range CAN break that all BB and Celestis jam/damp strategy. By powering I mean going full speed away from the other team. Whether that means you're in a BS (rokh for example) with an AB/mwd or Eagle with ab/mwd is up to those in that team to decide. webbed and "deaded"? If thats so then you mean the BBs and Celestis have mwd's and webs meaning less ewar to keep your whole team disabled and they won't be able to keep mwd + ewar going for long to power out to ya. It seems you mistook my post to mean "THIS SETUP - WIN!". No. The person above had said "THIS SETUP = WIN!". I was simply stating one strategy in a team setup that could counter that "invincible" 10 ewar cruiser setup. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:47:00 - [81] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Originally by: Sever Aldaria Imo, some of your changes make it more about whoever has the most isk wins. I don't see why, cosmos modules aren't expensive and my changes would mean you only need enough isk for a single pirate implant set per member. Whereas the rules GM Nova presents mean you need replacement implant sets for every team member... Now that's a massive advantage for rich teams. Any alliance can afford to max out in tournament I described if they're willing to invest a little into it (like last time). Only filthy filthy rich can afford to replace multiple pirate implant sets, advantage BoB. Agreed, but you don't have use full implant sets after all. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:51:00 - [82] Originally by: Ifni 10 Vexors with 5 sentry drones a piece. How does one fit 5 sentry drones inside a vexor? Even still 30 sentries would hurt quite a lot but they're suseptible to counter sniping. I wouldn't base my entire strategy around sentries though. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
ookke	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:46:00 - [83] Edited by: ookke on 25/05/2007 18:53:44 Quote: The next Alliance Tournament is scheduled to be held August 17. 2007. Will they be held on that friday, the weekend that starts that friday, or over the next two consecutive weekends? Would help a lot with scheduling if we atleast knew this for sure beforehand. Quote: 1. This is a bracket tournament with eight brackets, four teams in each bracket, for a total number of 64 teams. 4x8 = 32? Or am I missing something here. Quote: 2. The 32 teams with the highest points scored advance to the next round. What points, ship kill points of match win points? Quote: 5. A pilot cannot compete on behalf of more than one alliance at a time. 6. All competing pilots must be members of the alliance they are competing at the time they fight. I guess you mean one alliance per tournament per pilot and not at a time? Quote: 4. The arena will measure a 250 km radius. You sure you want a 500km across bubble where people can zoom around and you can't make slingshots? Sounds like begging for a SLOOOOOWWW start where the teams land 200km apart. Quote: 6. When the warp disruption field is activated, the fight starts. What exact role does this warp disruption field have, if it's not going to be the whole size of the arena and not to further increase the amount of podding? Quote: 7. If a player warps out/leaves the arena, His/her departure will be counted as a ship kill. If that player warps back in, all his systems will be neutralized. (All modules offlined) Sooo, if my <instert-expensive-ship-here> starts getting hurt or is the only one left from my team, I just warp out and get to keep my ship? That's weak and doesn't fit along with the podding allowed rule. I know about warp disruptors and yadda yadda, but lets just not try to make this resemble real pvp when it's not. Quote: 8. Warping within the arena is not allowed. I think you already know this, but it will not go well along with 200km start ranges to not be able to make slingshots. Either lower the start ranges drastically or do the coding to let the EVE TV cameramen maintain locks after we warp. If you really really want to stay with the "real pvp" crap then allow warping around and it will give dictors an entirely new role - keeping the enemy team where you want it. Currently they are a bit useless for the 8 point cost, would be arrogant to just bring them for podding ;P Quote: 10. Locking the enemy team before the match starts is NOT allowed. Please also re-implement the ECM burst from last year, or all the teams will cheat and start the locking on the countdown. Quote: Battleship, Faction-----37 Battleship --------------27 Battlecruiser, Tech2---27 doesn't make sense like other people have already pointed out. Quote: 3. Boosters and rigs are not allowed. 8. Faction, COSMOS, dead space and officer modules are not allowed Pricey implants - check, Pricey ships - check, no rigs, cosmos or drugs - why? I still think these rules need a complete rework, the wording at many parts is dodgy and could be understood in many different ways. There also seems to be a lot of other tourney pilots disagreeing with most of the rules.
T'ni Iommi	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:48:00 - [84] http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html
jamesw Rubra Libertas Militia	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:01:00 - [85] Edited by: jamesw on 26/05/2007 08:00:49 At first glance I really like the rules. Could probably use a little tweak, but overall its good. 1- Arena Rules/Size Firstly, I like the intent behind the larger arena, with multiple warp in points. What I would also like to see is people warping within the arena. Sure, there is a technical issue with people warping within a grid, but warping to a gang mate works for me. Its pretty common to use as a repositioning tactic, so should be allowed - especially with an arena of this size. Also I feel that the arena could be made a little bigger. One effective counter to EW is Range. 250km arena makes it virtually impossible to set for "sniping" an EW team. Make the arena 400km across, and allow warping to gang mates. 2- EW EW is IN! That is awesome. There was a lot of concern prior to the last tournament that allowing dampening would make for boring fights. There were a few boring fights, but for the most part teams responded and adapted to their opponents, and dampening was never a real problem. I feel the same will happen with EW in this format. A lot of people will worry about it, some will use it, and most will adapt around it. In the end I don't think it will be a problem. as long as the arena rules are adjusted. 3- Points The updated points system is fine to me, but I think a little differential between the 3 tiers of battleship is in order. It made for some really effective combinations if teams elected to use a tier 1 BS (yay for domi pwning impoc!). -- Latest Vid: Domination!
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:03:00 - [86] Edited by: Pilk on 26/05/2007 08:04:50 Originally by: Sever Aldaria In this case, A long range sniper 150km+ (sniper warps in at 100km and the other team happens to warp in at range from the opposite angle or sniper powers out to 150km+) would be out of the reach of jammers Originally by: Sever Aldaria can shoot down the ewar cruisers from out of the reach of their ewar. t2 racial jammer: 54km base optimal. Cruiser V: +100% = 108km Long Distance Jamming V: +50% = 162km Information Warfare Link - Recon Operation: +25.875% = 203.9175km optimal. There's no such thing as "out of ECM range". (And that's before you even take the falloff into consideration.) --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
LordVodka Earned In Blood	Posted - 2007.05.27 06:32:00 - [87] Looks like i'm the pnly one here not complaining \o/. I personally like hte new roles and don't see why everyone's *****ing, O GOD THERE'S ECM. Whip de duh dah, what are they gonna field a scorp and wate 27 points and only be able to field a cs, and a 2nd bs to do damage? can you say powned in about 5 seconds. O wait they could use like 5 bb's!!!! and have them all pop in the first minute of the fight. Seriously cry me a river. If anyone cares for a suggestion 250 radius is big and to stop the implant whining just REMOVE THEM. Sounds like a cool tourny to me stop bickering and appreciate it.
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:00:00 - [88] Originally by: LordVodka Edited by: LordVodka on 27/05/2007 06:35:06 Looks like i'm the only one here not complaining \o/. I personally like hte new roles and don't see why everyone's *****ing, O GOD THERE'S ECM. Whip de duh dah, what are they gonna field a scorp and wate 27 points and only be able to field a cs, and a 2nd bs to do damage? can you say powned in about 5 seconds. O wait they could use like 5 bb's!!!! and have them all pop in the first minute of the fight. Seriously cry me a river. If anyone cares for a suggestion 250 radius is big and to stop the implant whining just REMOVE THEM, also the tiers for all ship classes should carry more point weight. Sounds like a cool tourny to me stop bickering and appreciate it. You obviously have no clue either and wont participate in it.
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.27 22:51:00 - [89] The rules seem to be heading in the right direction, no all we need is warping within the arena and its game on. The only complaint I have besides the no warping is the 10 participants rule, but thats just me because of my alliances anti social recruitment policy.
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.28 07:53:00 - [90] I like the rules, but I would also like to see warping allowed within the area, and some discrimination between the 3 tiers of battleships. I don't understand why the devs are saying that there's a technical issue with warping inside the arena. Yes, it would disrupt the coverage a little, but that's the only technical issue I can imagine with it. Note that I'm not asking for a network of landmarks to be placed within the arena or anything like that - it's just that tactical warping is cool stuff. ------ Agony Unleashed is recruiting.
Kotori Gallente Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:32:00 - [91] Edited by: Kotori on 28/05/2007 22:33:40 Edited by: Kotori on 28/05/2007 22:31:13 Ok. On the subject of the warp bubble. I can see what nova is suggestign the use of it for. It is not for the use of keeping players from warping out. The role of the bubble is to act as a clear marker for the teams that they may begin. If you have been in the tourny before. you will known that it is not necesarily simple to know the beginnign of the fight. Players do not like reading local for the countdown, as with all pvp encounters, we play with your chat windows minimized, in order to gain the best performance. The bubble going active acts as a clear marker to begin, with all players seeing it at the same time, and beginning the fight. The bubble is not ment to be big enough to cover the arena. I would hope that the arena will be clearly marked out, after having one of my guys move out of it last tournie, im sure none of you will forget :) As for the complaints on implants, this that and everything. I cannot see a way, that a team using crystal implants or such, is going to have a major advantage in this tournament. Im not sayign there will be no advantage to it. But i know the damage i can put out in a tempest, i know the damage my alliance mates can put out in other ships, and no one, i repeat no one is going to be able to tank agenst that kind of damage output, not with the amount of ships i am allowed to field in this tournament. These rules do not re-create real PvP. There is simply no way to create 'organised' 'real pvp'. TBH, real PvP is alliances juggling with numbers until they out number the enemy. This tournament will be interesting. Please state real reasons for any changes you feel necesary, im not saying that you all have bad ideas. The cosmos module fighters definitely have very good points made. But suggestions, written in bad english, are simply no help to anyone, and will be overlooked. Provide a persuasive argument, and you never know what way it will go. --Kotori-- --Destiny FC-- oh, and a slight PS. Can someone please kick ginger for me. What happened to my corp tournie. Tell him to get in touch with us ..........
5n4keyes Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.05.28 22:49:00 - [92] A count down in local is a much better idea than the warp disrupt bubble. My pc has a habit of not showing warp distupt bubbles activate, sometimes takes a few mins til the client kinda refreshes to see the bubble, the bubble works, but i dont see it. As for the points system... in two words 'It Sucks'. Needs a serious rethink! much like the last tourny, which wasnt fully sorted til a few days before!, that point system worked.
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.29 22:58:00 - [93] Thinks look much more interesting than last year. Including Ewar will defninitely increase the strategies available to the competitors. I would prefer a no implants battle, podding optional, so that it doesn't become an isk war. I assume the goal of this tourney is to show skill, and not be an isk war / epeen waving. Also, allowing to warp within the grid of the arena would be nice, it allows for some interesting tactics as well, so I'm with the Burn Eden fellow there. It will be necessary to fit warp disruptors to prevent people from warping away, increasing possible strategies. I like the point system. It will get people out of their battleships, and perhaps back into frigates. High SP combined with T1 frigates can actually be quite potent. --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com "Veni, Vidi, Caedi"
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:23:00 - [94] Originally by: 5n4keyes A count down in local is a much better idea than the warp disrupt bubble. My pc has a habit of not showing warp distupt bubbles activate, sometimes takes a few mins til the client kinda refreshes to see the bubble, the bubble works, but i dont see it. You'll know when the fighting starts from TS/Vent [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further d
Sarta Welinder	Posted - 2007.06.01 11:27:00 - [95] I'm a bit confused: Quote: General .... 8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins. .... Ships 1. Each team has 100 points to select their ships. 2. Each team may have up to 10 ships on the battlefield. 3. Unused points will be added to the opponents score. Am I to take this to mean that teams will be penalized for not making use of all 100 points?
Friedrick Psitalon The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.06.01 12:31:00 - [96] With highest respect to anyone who has the unenviable job of being an authority figure on these forums, I have a few questions: 1- There appears to be no information on when/how to sign up? This is pretty relevant if only 64 (or is it 32?) teams are getting in. Sixty-four alliances, I'm not so worried. Thirty-two alliances, hmm...scramble time. 2- We need some clarity on the warp bubble issue. "Maybe bubble/no bubble" isn't okay here, no offense. Even without warping, some of us newer up-and-coming alliances have no interest in churning through multiple sets of high grades. If the bubble is there, it's intended that everyone be podded. If it's not there... and there appear to be no points awarded for podding either way... are we really aiming just to have a griefer tool in the tournament? That seems counter to good sportsmanship, having fun, etc. If we're trying to zap those who lose ships, let's go at it whole cloth. If not, let's take it out altogether? 3- You said something about "Nowhere does it say the warp bubble will be 250km across and you can't field 10 battleships." Begging pardon, but 27*10 = a lot more than 100 points.... or is that a bad case of double negatives in action? 4- It seems like (with the exception of faction battleships and implants) the "no drugs, no faction, no cosmos" is an attempt at lowering the general cost of competition gear - why are rigs on this list? They weren't even in the class of the other items on the list when they came out, and many rigs are dirt cheap now. My condolences for having to deal with us all, and I heartily support your right to make the decisions. Our alliance will come out swinging under any rules, just looking to have a good time.
SoMoSo Caldari Solidline Enterprise Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.01 13:12:00 - [97] wen the rouls will be set for good, and to Tax for sign up and the rest of information ?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.06.01 14:12:00 - [98] Originally by: Sarta Welinder I'm a bit confused: Quote: General .... 8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins. .... Ships 1. Each team has 100 points to select their ships. 2. Each team may have up to 10 ships on the battlefield. 3. Unused points will be added to the opponents score. Am I to take this to mean that teams will be penalized for not making use of all 100 points? No. See it like this: the team with most points LEFT after fight will win. - EVE is sick.
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.06.01 15:42:00 - [99] Edited by: Gee Lok on 01/06/2007 15:44:49 Originally by: GM Nova The tournament will be infused more into the storyline and thus there are things we will not reveal at this time. In my opinion, you are trying to make the tournament too complex. It is a mistake to equate eve-online the dynamic MMORPG with eve-online the tournament. Sure they both played in eve, but one is a MMORPG, and the other is a tournament. The tournament is a more like a sports event, and should be run that way. After all, sports arenÆt about replicating real world situations. They are about having clear rules so that people are on an equal playing field. The outcome should mostly depend on the competitor's relative skills, tactics, strategies etc. It shouldnÆt depend on random factors that ensure a victory for one side. I think the rules that you have posted are sufficient with a little tweaking. Perhaps you could disallow podkilling, that serves no purpose. Perhaps you could have a smaller arena with start points like the last tournament and so onàReally, you are probably better equipped to make such decisions than me :p Having said that, you must be working really hard at this. I hope that everything goes well, as it no doubt will. I really look forward to seeing the event. It should be awesome. Cheers
Sarta Welinder	Posted - 2007.06.01 20:28:00 - [100] Originally by: Ithildin No. See it like this: the team with most points LEFT after fight will win. So, again, if a team fields 10 Navitas (who knows why), they will have used 30 of their 100 points. According to the rules, the remainder of their points will be added to their opponents' score. If as you say, they somehow manage to destroy all 100 points worth of ships that their opponent has, their opponent will still have the 70 points and they will merely have 30. I'm just saying that the point system doesn't make much sense the way that it was originally worded.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.06.02 12:41:00 - [101] Originally by: Sarta Welinder Originally by: Ithildin No. See it like this: the team with most points LEFT after fight will win. So, again, if a team fields 10 Navitas (who knows why), they will have used 30 of their 100 points. According to the rules, the remainder of their points will be added to their opponents' score. If as you say, they somehow manage to destroy all 100 points worth of ships that their opponent has, their opponent will still have the 70 points and they will merely have 30. I'm just saying that the point system doesn't make much sense the way that it was originally worded. You are misreading it. Team A fields 10 Navitas (30 points) and Team B fields a full set up (100 points). Team A manages to destroy all of Team B without suffering losses, the score: Team A: 100 points Team B: 70 points As I described it, the winner can be seen to be determined by who has most points left: Team A: 103 points = 30 points Team B: X0 points = 0 points As written in the rules: You GET what you KILL. If you DON'T field a point, your enemy DEFAULT as having KILLED that point. What points you don't field, the enemy is considered to have killed - EVE is sick.
Sarta Welinder	Posted - 2007.06.03 00:40:00 - [102] So, as I said in my original post, a team is penalized for not using all 100 points.
Jonny 101 The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.06.05 02:17:00 - [103] I wont be participating, as normal however...it's going to be very dull to watch on tv, if I want random pvp i'll undock and roam I wanto see the championships with expensive ships and elite-lamer tactics that steam-roll **! That aside, my every single clone has a set of expensive implants, will you be supplying fresh clones so people like me won't lose our HG slave sets etc? I'm not going to *** etc, simply inform whoever cares that this tourney looks very boring from my point of view. And i'm sure many will agree, give us the champions league of eve, not a fair fight, show us the bling! ------------------------------------------------ crash003 > 400k more lp and ill have a navy mega TheJacko > 400k lol TheJacko > ineed 250k The hidden face of turby
Andor Traxel Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2007.06.05 05:03:00 - [104] Hmmm how about a giant Crokite roid in the middle of the arena, each jetcan load counts as a point. Then we could work hulks into the Tourney and it would be more like real pvp. Jk... Why all the fuss The rules sound very well thought out. as for posting ship layouts and fleet ideas, Let me power up that Cray with some heuristic algorithms loaded... Ohh wait its gonna take it a while for that result...
Arkemn Trefore New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.06.05 10:18:00 - [105] It is more like real pvp for those who never leave test server. I just don't understand your calling something an Alliance Tournament. Fine i get that fact but this is not pvp. I got 6 idea's. 1. Give us 5 systems to roam around in with docking prohibited. 2. Allow us to use any fitting we want bar only faction. Beacause lets face it faction is the win for those who have money. 3. Allow up to 10 ships with the curent point system. 4. Allow different starting systems for each team. 5. Allow 4 different teams in the field at a time 6. Allow 25 minutes to pass before calling the match That would be more like real pvp. We would half to hunt for the other players meaning dividing our numbers to find them. More teams equals more variables i have been in the middle of a good fight kicking some rear. When all of the sudden an enemy that disliked both of us jumped in. Because i had been in the fight for the bit get snapped like a cheap brush. that puts pvp skill to the ultimate test. If it's a three way fight and the other team decides to stay out of it and kil the winner then that thier decision. Pvp isn't about fitting it's about stratagy. Lets take this example. Eos Lachesis and a Vagabond vs Absolution Deimos and a Caracal who would win. My choices is Absolution Deimos and Caracal. Not because the Absolution is scary because the Caracal is a scary little monster. It could go either way depending on stratagy. .........................
Andor Traxel Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2007.06.05 20:15:00 - [106] If each team a hidden deadspace pocket for a collection point, then you could base cameras at each of three positions red base, blue base and a giant rare ore asteroid. That would bring system scanning and resource collection into the mix. Players are free to warp around the system but can only engage in combat at each others bases or in the asteroid field. Give mining ships a fit on the point system and give each teams bases some sentry guns to make assualting a base with a defending fleet more difficult. Would that be more like real pvp? Wait, wait how about a flag in each base...
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.05 22:04:00 - [107] Originally by: Andor Traxel If each team a hidden deadspace pocket for a collection point, then you could base cameras at each of three positions red base, blue base and a giant rare ore asteroid. That would bring system scanning and resource collection into the mix. Players are free to warp around the system but can only engage in combat at each others bases or in the asteroid field. Give mining ships a fit on the point system and give each teams bases some sentry guns to make assualting a base with a defending fleet more difficult. Would that be more like real pvp? Wait, wait how about a flag in each base... On a slightly more serious side note... is guardian-vexor regarded as a t1 cruiser like it's on the market, or is it a faction ship? :)
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.06 13:00:00 - [108] Originally by: ookke On a slightly more serious side note... is guardian-vexor regarded as a t1 cruiser like it's on the market, or is it a faction ship? :) Look under the variations tab and you'll find your answer. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Trevedian Amarr KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:00:00 - [109] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Kayosoni Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Kayosoni there are cosmos items that are equal to officer. Wrong. (Sorry.) Oh, and BTW: there are officer items that are worse than tech-2 (check out Thon's modified resistance amps some time). Under your system, then, does this mean we need to ban tech-2? Disallowing COSMOS is ridiculous, especially in the face of allowing podding. You cannot possibly justify it as trying to reduce the cost of entry. So how do you justify it? Are the lower fittings and very rare better-than-t2 stats (i.e., 'Motte' CPR) really that game-breaking? --P fail Epic forum failure right back atcha, bud--that doesn't drop. Find me a Shaqil's EANM, while you're at it. I repeat my earlier statement--disallowing COSMOS is ridiculous. --P I totally agree with Pilk, COSMOS modules should be allowed... They are nowhere near as good as most Officer/Commander mods... Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.12 14:03:00 - [110] Agreed, COSMOS and warping inside arena should be allowed. Cosmos was allowed in all the previous tourneys and there is no good reason to ban it this time either. Rigs are worth considering, but might be a little too good for tank turtles.
The Judge FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 17:09:00 - [111] This will just be another tournament based on tanks. Anybody with some common sense will know that nearly every fight is going to be a navy raven/rattlesnake with a crystal set, with support fitted with shield transfers. Watching that over and over again isn't exacley good tv. -Implants need to be removed -Armor/Shield maintenance drones/mods removed -EW removed Those 3 changes would make fights alot fairer, and alot more interesting to watch.
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.14 17:49:00 - [112] Originally by: The Judge This will just be another tournament based on tanks. Anybody with some common sense will know that nearly every fight is going to be a navy raven/rattlesnake with a crystal set, with support fitted with shield transfers. Watching that over and over again isn't exacley good tv. -Implants need to be removed -Armor/Shield maintenance drones/mods removed -EW removed Those 3 changes would make fights alot fairer, and alot more interesting to watch. You have no idea what you are talking about, the whole point of allowing EW is being able to break rep chains. Repair bots will also be out-balanced by EW drones also being allowed, a swarm of ecm drones can be really frustrating. There will probably be stalemates between tank turtles, nanotards and EW lineups, especially if warping inside arena isn't allowed, but it will definitely not be a tanking only tournament this year.
The Judge FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.14 20:03:00 - [113] Originally by: ookke Originally by: The Judge This will just be another tournament based on tanks. Anybody with some common sense will know that nearly every fight is going to be a navy raven/rattlesnake with a crystal set, with support fitted with shield transfers. Watching that over and over again isn't exacley good tv. -Implants need to be removed -Armor/Shield maintenance drones/mods removed -EW removed Those 3 changes would make fights alot fairer, and alot more interesting to watch. You have no idea what you are talking about, the whole point of allowing EW is being able to break rep chains. Repair bots will also be out-balanced by EW drones also being allowed, a swarm of ecm drones can be really frustrating. There will probably be stalemates between tank turtles, nanotards and EW lineups, especially if warping inside arena isn't allowed, but it will definitely not be a tanking only tournament this year. Or you don't know what you're talking about ?
Spikum Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.14 22:46:00 - [114] do Logistic Cruisers count like normal Cruiser or arent they allowed?
rockmeister New Justice Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.15 07:53:00 - [115] I really don't see the problem with the new changes look like fun there is always a countering strategy remote tanks will be severely less effective so will ravens and other (mostly) shield tanked ships (fitting sensor boosters and ECCM) so should be alot shorter fights and not 15 minutes of shooting an no kills at all.. tho look more liek real pvp? no especially not with the beacons if there all mixed up if you want to make it look more liek real pvp perhaps allow using covops and hold off the tournement till there can be warping to gangmembers but looks ok in general
Agmar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.15 13:11:00 - [116] Sounds like it is going to be a fun tourney. My only gripe is towards the people that are crying about isk. This is an "Alliance" tournament. If you want to make isk a non-factor, the only correct course of action would be to force everyone into rifters with tech 1 kit only... no named gear. I am not trying to sound condescending, but the playing field in game is not level. Why should it be in an alliance tournament? That is like saying that black kids shouldn't be allowed to play in March Madness (linkified for the euros) just because they are better athletes.
Andor Traxel Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2007.06.15 17:48:00 - [117] Originally by: The Judge This will just be another tournament based on tanks. Anybody with some common sense will know that nearly every fight is going to be a navy raven/rattlesnake with a crystal set, with support fitted with shield transfers. Watching that over and over again isn't exacley good tv. -Implants need to be removed -Armor/Shield maintenance drones/mods removed -EW removed Those 3 changes would make fights alot fairer, and alot more interesting to watch. Ooooohh a crystal fitted Rattlesnake, please bring it, I love watching big expensive explosions.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.15 18:39:00 - [118] Edited by: Ishina Fel on 15/06/2007 18:39:49 Dear GM Nova, Please reconsider the point cost distribution for battlecruisers and battleships. It is a general consensus among the community that the various tiers of these ship classes are not equal in power. While battleships are still relatively close together, due to having serious variation in their roles and bonuses (for the most part), the battlecruisers in particular show a significant gap. The Tier 2 battlecruisers are just flat-out better, and significantly so, than their Tier 1 counterparts. There is no reason at all to ever bring a Cyclone over a Hurricane, or a Ferox over a Drake, and so on. Even the Brutix, considered the currently strongest Tier 1 battlecruiser, will be left far far behind by the Myrmidon with the advent of tech 2 logistics and sentry drones. With this in mind, I would ask you and your team to discuss again and reevaluate the point cost of these ships (unless this has already been done before). Especially with the larger point base and cost numbers you are running this tournament, minute variations in cost are easily made without completely over- or underpricing that ship class. I would like to recommend the following split-up: Battleships: Tier 1, 26 points; Tier 2, 27 points; Tier 3, 28 points. This is an average around the current number of 27. Alternatively, they could be rated 27, 28, 29 instead. Battlecruisers: Tier 1, 18 points as now; Tier 2, 20 points. As an additional modification, I would explicitly disallow rookie ships and industrials from the tournament. Else people may be tempted to field them as a joke like in the last tournament, and will end up breaking the rules (these ships are not listed on the point table, thus not really legal to field) by accident.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.15 19:54:00 - [119] Edited by: QwaarJet on 15/06/2007 19:54:11 I've already talked to a couple of alliances who have withdrawn due to the rules. I say again(and this is the majority view as far as I can tell) No pilot registering will be chaos, and will also remove exclusivity from the tournament. Now any Joe can enter at any time. Having Battleships all the same points is crazy, also having command ships cost the same as Battleships. Having all this beacon crap is rubbish. Keep it simple, and have it the way it was before. Extend the arena if you must, but it was fine before. No need to fix something that ain't broken. Preferably disallow target jamming. It brings an unwanted element of luck into something that is supposed to be about skill. You say you want it to be more like real combat. Guess what? Real combat has less skill involved than the Tournament, that's why people love the tournament so much, because it's different. Combat on Tranq is about gankage. Gee Lok actually got it spot on. I'm not the biggest fan of LeMonde, but he knew what the tournament was all about. The last tournament was a perfect balance. Taking that setup and tweaking it a little I imagine would meet with higher approval than this current set of frankly crazy rules. Whenever you come back from Holiday, I kindly suggest you take heed of the comments in this thread, and adjust the rules to reflect them. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
JediLover MASS	Posted - 2007.06.16 01:10:00 - [120] randomness is good, what ever the rules as long as they are the same for all of us, it will measure something the more random, the more options only thing I would change is the fact anyone from alliance can fly in the tournie as its easier to be polite and cohesive when bench is smaller
Helganstandt Nemesis Industries	Posted - 2007.06.17 04:22:00 - [121] Everything looks good to me, I especially like the podding aspect. Only thing I want just to make it more like "real" PVP would be to allow warping within the arena. If you don't do that, then there's going to be no counter for the sniping/dampening teams.
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.06.17 11:36:00 - [122] Originally by: Spikum do Logistic Cruisers count like normal Cruiser or arent they allowed? I suspect they count as 'T2 cruisers'. Recruitment FAQ
Twacker	Posted - 2007.06.17 13:10:00 - [123] With all due respect, "no rigs" rule is really pure nonsense. I can understand "no T2 rigs" rule, as they are rare and expensive, but T1 rigs? There are thousands of them on market, they are cheap, almost everybody using them. They are mature and balanced enough not to create "I win" setups. You said you want to make event more like "real PVP". Two reasons for T1 rigs: 1. they allow for some unorthodox setups, which will create variety in tournament and make each match more unique. 2. they allow for some normally not used ship types, which just can't be setup effectively wihout them. Please reconsider.
bonesy19uk Minmatar Stormriders Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.06.17 16:19:00 - [124] Originally by: GM Nova 10. Locking the enemy team before the match starts is NOT allowed. Any thoughts on enforcing that rule, this time around?
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.06.17 21:22:00 - [125] Talking as a fan of the tourneys here: - the points fun, but need tweaking imho.. mostly the BS points as has been stated - give the players a nice little jumpclone and screw those implants.. If you do allow them, also allow faction mods and rigs, because it's only fair .. - players should sign up, not be scrounged up at the last second - warping should be in.. - podding is good - the cans to try and get range is good - big space is good - ecm is a big scary one ... could utterly frell up the tourney, could be fun good luck with finding a nice compromise... nobody is waiting for a boring tourney with boring fights.. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Useless alt	Posted - 2007.06.19 00:22:00 - [126] Oh, come on why not just spawn a few BPO's for our great friend called BoB. These rules favor one team and one team only, the one with the most ISK. And for anyone who has been lagged to hell and back in Jita for the past year or so, BoB has by far the most resources. So guess what BoBies win another one. CCP are you guys not worried that the BoB players will stop playing because you are making it to easy for them? I am sorry to have to say things like this but this tournament has nothing to do with a championship it has nothing to do with a fair competition or with equal oppertunities. This tournament is all about finding new ways to hand out free ships and goodies to a certain group of players. A fair tournamant would mean no implants. No faction/officer modules. No faction/ultra rare ships. No rigs, no boosters. This would mean that all people entering would have a fair chance of winning. Of course the rich still more easily afford the good stuff but then again an alliance that can not fit 100 T2 ships doesn't really have a place in this kind of fight. I think that the best solution for this tournamant is to simply boycot it and let BoB have their cookie. These rules make it virtualy inposible for anyone else to win, and if they would come close well... lets not even discuss that we all know what that titan hiding behind the planet will do to the opposing team.
Nesa Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.19 06:19:00 - [127] If you want to make it like real PvP, get a list of all modules/implants/ships destroyed in PvP combat in the last 6 months. Order them by frequency of their destruction and pick a point at which you decide they're too infrequently used to be allowed. ;) I don't understand disallowing rigs, and there are certainly implants that are used all the time in combat. But there are many implants that are used so seldomly.... But hey, if podding is allowed at least people can be made to hurt... By the sounds of things if people start bringing stuff too expensive they could lose isk even if they win the tournament. But yeah no rigs? I understood that when rigs were new but now? The whole point of them was to make setups more interesting and less vanilla...
Arkemn Trefore New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.06.19 10:40:00 - [128] Edited by: Arkemn Trefore on 19/06/2007 10:39:15 i aggree .........................
Bayushi Goku	Posted - 2007.06.19 10:41:00 - [129] Sorry i'm going to have to agree with Useless Alt on this one.it's just a gimme for those with money and most of us don't have it. Sorry but i won't be blowing up anyone in this torne just a waste of isk. I could fit a pimped out vagabond and it would just go boom and then i'm out isk with practicaly no reward. Sorry to burst your bubble on this but your rules this time are crap. I'm not trying to be hatefull but this in no way gives us any fair fights. We want either good pvp or a good boxing match. This torney offers neither. So i'm gonna take my shinny ship and burn down people in 0.0 and maybe lose my ship in the process but at least even if i hit a gate camp i my chances of a fair fight are better. Out Bayushi Goku
Holmes Four Caldari Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.06.19 19:04:00 - [130] Edited by: Holmes Four on 19/06/2007 19:03:15 3. Boosters and rigs are not allowed. What elastic definition of fair play allows for the use of implants but prohibits combat boosters? First the barriers to entry are much less for boosters. Science 1 and Biology 1 are the only skills required for combat booster use. Other skills mitigate the severity and chance of a side effect. Implants have a much higher cost and skill requirement relative to combat boosters. In a competition that allows podding, implants are an enormous liability. Boosters are gone in a set amount of time win or lose. Combat booster use would allow for more chance and open the door to an upset victory. A shield repair bonus could save an otherwise doomed ship and a nasty side effect could swing the tide to an otherwise underpowered opponent. These drugs were named "COMBAT BOOSTERS" and are prohibited in the official CCP "PVP COMBAT TOURNAMENT". Please CCP make it interesting, allow combat boosters. Let the children take drugs.
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.19 19:55:00 - [131] I don't understand why there is so much moaning on here about the rules. Adapt or Die The rules are just fine, besides if it was REAL pvp as in 10 of you or 5 of you or whatever run into an even number of us. Guess what, in that case YOU will always die so no this is far from real pvp and you actually have a chance of winning. Or do you mean real pvp where everyone else gets to bring 5x+ our numbers to make it fair?
Taradis	Posted - 2007.06.20 12:37:00 - [132] I believe POD killing is a bad idea and dishonerable considering a POD has no weapons not to mention it seems like it's favoring the alliances which can replace everything and not think twice about it. I D/Led last yrs tourneys and I liked them very cool =)
hilaw	Posted - 2007.06.20 19:10:00 - [133] I Presume that means no faction ammo either, but didn't see it specficaly Was 1 Pixel to big and you had to nerf it, well fixed now
DJTheBaron Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.21 10:52:00 - [134] I didnt see any information regarding signup apart from first come first serve, is there a way to signup now or a date when signups open and how do we go about this? I look forward to killing kayo again, except this time he wont be in my corp when i do it ;-) howdo m8y "The Views & Opinions Expressed In This Post Represent Those of My Corporation & Alliance. So Go ** Yourself" DJTheBaron: FATAL Alliance Diplomat**
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.21 16:52:00 - [135] Originally by: Holmes Four 3. Boosters and rigs are not allowed. What elastic definition of fair play allows for the use of implants but prohibits combat boosters? First the barriers to entry are much less for boosters. Science 1 and Biology 1 are the only skills required for combat booster use. Other skills mitigate the severity and chance of a side effect. Implants have a much higher cost and skill requirement relative to combat boosters. In a competition that allows podding, implants are an enormous liability. Boosters are gone in a set amount of time win or lose. Combat booster use would allow for more chance and open the door to an upset victory. A shield repair bonus could save an otherwise doomed ship and a nasty side effect could swing the tide to an otherwise underpowered opponent. These drugs were named "COMBAT BOOSTERS" and are prohibited in the official CCP "PVP COMBAT TOURNAMENT". Please CCP make it interesting, allow combat boosters. Let the children take drugs. Because that would just encourage everyone to have a half-dozen pilots for each ship on standby. Everyone pops a pill five minutes before the match, and whoever got the fewest side effects gets to fight. It'd be very unfair to smaller alliances. It's one thing to miss a crucial jam in a fight. It's quite another to go into a fight knowing you can't win because you have no tracking, no armor HP, and no capacitor because your Exile went a little crazy. By comparison, I can't swap pilots and "try again" when my jammer fails or my gun misses the frigate. Originally by: SATAN I don't understand why there is so much moaning on here about the rules. Adapt or Die The rules are just fine, besides if it was REAL pvp as in 10 of you or 5 of you or whatever run into an even number of us. Guess what, in that case YOU will always die so no this is far from real pvp and you actually have a chance of winning. Or do you mean real pvp where everyone else gets to bring 5x+ our numbers to make it fair? SATAN, buddy, you're a good PvPer, and have killed me before. That doesn't mean that you win every (x)v(x) you have ever fought, and it certainly doesn't mean you'd win every tournament that was set up in that way. You set up on gates, you cloak, you have carriers in deep safespots assigning fighters, you (used to) use WCS--you do everything you can to stack the field in your favor, and you GTFO when you're in danger. Good for you, I endorse every last one of those tactics! But in a tournament setting, you'd have fewer of those capabilities. Reduce the size of your ego a bit, eh? --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:47:00 - [136] Dunno if this has been mentioned before but can the prize be something more along the lines of the Impoc that was given out for the Amarr succession championships, rather than game unbalancing Motherships that have a direct knock on effect to ingame politics. Motherships should be something one works to get. A unique faction ship is and has long been a prized possession and is something special. Since it's run by the Caldari Gaming Commission, how about a Scorpion, Raven or Rokh equilivent to the Impoc insofar as its capabilities and uniqueness? Make a Difference
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:56:00 - [137] Originally by: John McCreedy Dunno if this has been mentioned before but can the prize be something more along the lines of the Impoc that was given out for the Amarr succession championships, rather than game unbalancing Motherships that have a direct knock on effect to ingame politics. Motherships should be something one works to get. A unique faction ship is and has long been a prized possession and is something special. Since it's run by the Caldari Gaming Commission, how about a Scorpion, Raven or Rokh equilivent to the Impoc insofar as its capabilities and uniqueness? They did that last time, giving away the Corvus and Storm. Hopefully they give away unique ships agian, except this time give everyone taking part some kind of prize. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
damo atso	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:43:00 - [138] how do we enter????
DeddyMassive Academy of War	Posted - 2007.06.23 17:19:00 - [139] As good as a month since the last official remarks about the tourney. A cool off period of a couple of weeks was mentioned after a rather interesting rule set was posted. I've been on tender hooks since then, I can't sleep at night and it's starting to effect my work, I've come out in hives and I've developed disfuntions in my extematies. (NB: 4 of the 5 above may not be true, and the 5th may only trouble me on average 5 minutes each day) Any chance we can have some kinda update on rule changes based on 'zomg noes' responses to the somewhat quirky original ones? Thankyou muchly Have I mention recently I've got an Impoc killmail
SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.24 07:30:00 - [140] Pilk, It is irrelevant if we win every fight or not, I was just making a point adapt and live with it. And while we are on the subject, udie has never lost a fight with even numbers unless you count rule driven competitions as a real fight. And not to derail this thread or anything, but I think you have us confused with someone else our cap ships have seen the light of day maybe once we don't find caps very interesting to fly.
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.24 17:18:00 - [141] I completely aggree, everyone has to abide by the same rules.... what the hell is the problem with that? You can field up to 10 pilots, choose your range and the restrctions are really only to faction gear. So everyone has an equal chance of winning. There is a lot of whinning for things being actually fair. I know you cant blob your enemy but come on, get used to an even fight. AS FOR PODS.... ALL YOU WITH BILLIONS OF ISK IN IMPLANTS, GET READY TO LOSE THEM... PODS ARE PRIMARY! thats all thanks, WildCat
HeadMasterPL	Posted - 2007.06.26 21:48:00 - [142] Originally by: DHB WildCat I completely aggree, everyone has to abide by the same rules.... what the hell is the problem with that? You can field up to 10 pilots, choose your range and the restrctions are really only to faction gear. So everyone has an equal chance of winning. There is a lot of whinning for things being actually fair. I know you cant blob your enemy but come on, get used to an even fight. True. However from my point of view, which will be probably observer, not participant, I would like to see more interesting, diverse setups then last year Raven, Vulture, Huggin, Flycatcher,Isthar or similiar crap. Winning championships is more then skill and coordination, it's also tactics regarding setups. If you want clear fair field comparing only battle prowness than everyone should fly tech 1 gun frigate or something. That's why I "whine" for allowing rigs. Cheers
Shigawahhhhh Caldari Metalworks	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:32:00 - [143] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Holmes Four 3. Boosters and rigs are not allowed. What elastic definition of fair play allows for the use of implants but prohibits combat boosters? First the barriers to entry are much less for boosters. Science 1 and Biology 1 are the only skills required for combat booster use. Other skills mitigate the severity and chance of a side effect. Implants have a much higher cost and skill requirement relative to combat boosters. In a competition that allows podding, implants are an enormous liability. Boosters are gone in a set amount of time win or lose. Combat booster use would allow for more chance and open the door to an upset victory. A shield repair bonus could save an otherwise doomed ship and a nasty side effect could swing the tide to an otherwise underpowered opponent. These drugs were named "COMBAT BOOSTERS" and are prohibited in the official CCP "PVP COMBAT TOURNAMENT". Please CCP make it interesting, allow combat boosters. Let the children take drugs. Because that would just encourage everyone to have a half-dozen pilots for each ship on standby. Everyone pops a pill five minutes before the match, and whoever got the fewest side effects gets to fight. It'd be very unfair to smaller alliances. It's one thing to miss a crucial jam in a fight. It's quite another to go into a fight knowing you can't win because you have no tracking, no armor HP, and no capacitor because your Exile went a little crazy. By comparison, I can't swap pilots and "try again" when my jammer fails or my gun misses the frigate. You point out unfairness for smaller alliances...so should they not have PODing or just not allow faction implants at all? Just saying as I probally won't watch it and I deffantly won't be in it but just commenting...
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:48:00 - [144] Originally by: Shigawahhhhh Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Holmes Four 3. Boosters and rigs are not allowed. What elastic definition of fair play allows for the use of implants but prohibits combat boosters? First the barriers to entry are much less for boosters. Science 1 and Biology 1 are the only skills required for combat booster use. Other skills mitigate the severity and chance of a side effect. Implants have a much higher cost and skill requirement relative to combat boosters. In a competition that allows podding, implants are an enormous liability. Boosters are gone in a set amount of time win or lose. Combat booster use would allow for more chance and open the door to an upset victory. A shield repair bonus could save an otherwise doomed ship and a nasty side effect could swing the tide to an otherwise underpowered opponent. These drugs were named "COMBAT BOOSTERS" and are prohibited in the official CCP "PVP COMBAT TOURNAMENT". Please CCP make it interesting, allow combat boosters. Let the children take drugs. Because that would just encourage everyone to have a half-dozen pilots for each ship on standby. Everyone pops a pill five minutes before the match, and whoever got the fewest side effects gets to fight. It'd be very unfair to smaller alliances. It's one thing to miss a crucial jam in a fight. It's quite another to go into a fight knowing you can't win because you have no tracking, no armor HP, and no capacitor because your Exile went a little crazy. By comparison, I can't swap pilots and "try again" when my jammer fails or my gun misses the frigate. You point out unfairness for smaller alliances...so should they not have PODing or just not allow faction implants at all? Just saying as I probally won't watch it and I deffantly won't be in it but just commenting... (I fixed your quoting) Everyone has to pony up a lot of isk in order to compete in this tournament. You don't need to be a big alliance to have plenty of isk. You DO need to be a big alliance to have plenty of isk AND six characters per ship on standby to pop pills five minutes before every fight. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
DARKLING InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.27 21:21:00 - [145] hmmmm, another 'competition' based on who has most isk to lose to gain the prize... how about this for an idea for this 'competition' , ccp supplies free of charge only for the duration of the battles all mods/ ships/ fittings / implants requested by the combatents. This could possibly leave the battle result purely based on tactics and skill rather than isk.... Also why not make the competition open to all alliances, spread over a longer time frame and inclusive of all the player base. Just my 2 cents, please feel free to ignore :) =============================================== 'You see things; and you say 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' George Bernard Shaw
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.28 07:15:00 - [146] Originally by: DARKLING Edited by: DARKLING on 27/06/2007 21:30:50 Edited by: DARKLING on 27/06/2007 21:30:06 hmmmm, another 'competition' based on who has most isk to lose to gain the prize... how about this for an idea for this 'competition' , ccp supplies free of charge only for the duration of the battles all mods/ ships/ fittings / implants requested by the combatents. This could possibly leave the battle result purely based on tactics and skill rather than isk.... Also why not make the competition open to all alliances, spread over a longer time frame and inclusive of all the player base. Also...as I see podding is allowed, why not allow a ship stash such that assuming a pod manages to get out {LOL} it could possibly return in another ship, or alternatively a player could warp out and change to an unexpected ship from the stash.. Just my 2 cents, please feel free to ignore :) You do know the second-place team from last tournament only had one member with any pirate implants, and that member didn't even have a full set, right? I'll also point out that all their skill points COMBINED added up to less than TWD, the BoB captain, alone. Skill DOES win. Just like in non-tournament Eve, we strive for every extra 2% advantage we can get, so a lot of us will be plugging in pirate sets for this tournament, but at the end of the day, an eBay-bought character with an officer-fit, t2-rigged Bhaalgorn still dies to a t2-fit BE Raven. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.28 19:41:00 - [147] Instead of the n+1 different player opinions we are seeing here, it would be nice to get some CCP response too. It has been a month now from any ccp reply at all on the tournament, and I'm getting the impression that the tournament has been kind of forgot in all the Rev II hurry.
Shigawahhhhh Caldari Metalworks	Posted - 2007.06.29 07:25:00 - [148] Yeah anyone can get together isk. But if there not big enough to field six (to use your number although I assume that was just a abritary number) how much isk can they get together assuming none of them are uber rich to begin with. Lets say 7 ships (thats just a rough number after looking at the points system). 7*6 thats 42 pilots (its also the answer to life the universe and everything)...thats a small corp nevermind an alliance. So I think just about any combat orrianted alliance would easily have enough pilots for 6 per ship if boosters were alloweyed. However having enough isk to replace pirate (snake,crystal, etc) for each round is a fairly big ask of a alliance of that size imo. But really this is just all speculation...we could all be talking in another "invisible thread" since the lack of CCP responce.
Mes Ren	Posted - 2007.06.29 17:48:00 - [149] Personally, I think rigs should be allowed. Entire ship builds that are commonly used in PvP are not possible without rigs. My 2 cents.
ddemec The xDEATHx Squadron	Posted - 2007.06.30 20:19:00 - [150] when the ally registration begins? ________________________________________ b r e a k t h e b e a t z
DoctorColossal Pervius	Posted - 2007.07.01 20:40:00 - [151] Oooh. 100 points. Howz about A Megathron and 4 x Brutix's = 99 pts. Or A Maelstrom + 4 x Hurricanes = 99 pts. Imagine either of them teams steaming towards you for close range pwnage! Or 3 x Tempests + whatever. Exciting prospects.
Tulayia	Posted - 2007.07.01 21:05:00 - [152] As a participant in last tournament I will give my opinion on the new rules. (This chracter im posting on is not my main) 1. Point system needs to be looked at. There is a big difference between a tier 3 battleship and a tier 1 battleship. 2. Podding allowed. I see many problems with this. Poor alliances will no longer use implants in this tourney. Rich alliances will use implants every round and wont mind losing their pod as they will just replace them. I know I for one will not use my Full crystal set like I did last tournament. I may have 10bisk, but im not willing to just give up my pod and lose 2b isk especially when there is a warp disruption bubble there. Three, people who lose thier ship will have to die or warp out and cant watch the match finish. 3. Why not T1 Rigs? They are pretty cheap no? 4. Not having a player meeting to discuss the rules like last 2 tournaments? Bad Idea. Its like not beta testing a game. Just my opinion.
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.02 08:42:00 - [153] Edited by: mazzilliu on 02/07/2007 08:42:10 i need to know- how many points is a t2 hauler? t1 haulers? shuttles? noobships? faction shuttles? half of this is a serious question. edit- Originally by: bonesy19uk Originally by: GM Nova 10. Locking the enemy team before the match starts is NOT allowed. Any thoughts on enforcing that rule, this time around? they can do it easily this round, just explode a lockbreaker bomb on everybody right when the fight starts
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.02 18:42:00 - [154] I like the rules. see you whiners out there :P
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.07.02 18:58:00 - [155] Originally by: Vina a couple questions. will there be obstructions on the field and will the teams assemble at polar opposite beacons? no...BoB will have their members spawn 450 AU away from the battlefield, and will be granted EXTREME targeting and optimal range bonuses. BoB/CCP ftl.
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.07.02 20:09:00 - [156] Originally by: GM Nova 3. The ship points table is as follows: Battleship, Faction-----37 Battleship --------------27 Battlecruiser, Tech2---27 Battlecruiser -----------18 Cruiser, Recon --------19 Cruiser, Tech2 --------17 Cruiser, Faction -------13 Cruiser ----------------10 Destroyer, Tech2 ------8 Destroyer --------------5 Frigate, Tech2 ---------6 Frigate, Faction --------4 Frigate ------------------3 If a team brings an industrial to supply cap charges and ammo, what's its point value. If a team brings Barges or Rookie ships as a joke, do they have point values? Tired of Waiting? Use Empire Research
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.02 20:41:00 - [157] Originally by: Arushia Originally by: GM Nova 3. The ship points table is as follows: Battleship, Faction-----37 Battleship --------------27 Battlecruiser, Tech2---27 Battlecruiser -----------18 Cruiser, Recon --------19 Cruiser, Tech2 --------17 Cruiser, Faction -------13 Cruiser ----------------10 Destroyer, Tech2 ------8 Destroyer --------------5 Frigate, Tech2 ---------6 Frigate, Faction --------4 Frigate ------------------3 If a team brings an industrial to supply cap charges and ammo, what's its point value. If a team brings Barges or Rookie ships as a joke, do they have point values? Short answer: They can't. Slightly-longer answer: Interesting strategy idea! --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.02 20:54:00 - [158] Originally by: Arushia If a team brings an industrial to supply cap charges and ammo, what's its point value. If a team brings Barges or Rookie ships as a joke, do they have point values? Badger II and Iteron 5 don't make half bad EWAR platforms... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.07.03 16:59:00 - [159] so let me get this right. In order to take part in this event you MUST be apart of an alliance. How stupid is that. Why cant we field groups of friends or people that we feel would be a good pvp group? I dont like alliances and never will. You are excluding people from competing because they choose not to be apart of an alliance. This is wrong and completely discriminatory.
Alpine 69 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:47:00 - [160] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog so let me get this right. In order to take part in this event you MUST be apart of an alliance. How stupid is that. Why cant we field groups of friends or people that we feel would be a good pvp group? I dont like alliances and never will. You are excluding people from competing because they choose not to be apart of an alliance. This is wrong and completely discriminatory. It's called the alliance tournament, if it was for just "groups of people" then it would be called the "groups of people" tournament, obviously.... Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3 From her? You're on. -Rauth hubba hubba - Deckard
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.07.03 19:50:00 - [161] Originally by: Alpine 69 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog so let me get this right. In order to take part in this event you MUST be apart of an alliance. How stupid is that. Why cant we field groups of friends or people that we feel would be a good pvp group? I dont like alliances and never will. You are excluding people from competing because they choose not to be apart of an alliance. This is wrong and completely discriminatory. It's called the alliance tournament, if it was for just "groups of people" then it would be called the "groups of people" tournament, obviously.... my point is this. chances are the best pvpers in this game are NOT in an alliance. Why should these playes be excluded from exhibiting their talent?
Sli'co Scoser Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.07.05 13:53:00 - [162] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Alpine 69 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog so let me get this right. In order to take part in this event you MUST be apart of an alliance. How stupid is that. Why cant we field groups of friends or people that we feel would be a good pvp group? I dont like alliances and never will. You are excluding people from competing because they choose not to be apart of an alliance. This is wrong and completely discriminatory. It's called the alliance tournament, if it was for just "groups of people" then it would be called the "groups of people" tournament, obviously.... my point is this. chances are the best pvpers in this game are NOT in an alliance. Why should these playes be excluded from exhibiting their talent? Perhaps they could join an alliance for the duration of the tournament and then leave immediately afterwards, like many people and corps did last tournament?
SN3263827 The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.07.05 22:58:00 - [163] Originally by: GM Nova 7. Fights are limited to 15 minutes in the first round. After that the fight will be stopped and whichever alliance has destroyed ships with a higher number of total point worth will be declared winner. What happens if neither team scores any kills? Quote: 7. If a player warps out/leaves the arena, His/her departure will be counted as a ship kill. If that player warps back in, all his systems will be neutralized. (All modules offlined) If the player warps back in does the kill still count? _____________________________________________ My Wishlist
Neo Providence	Posted - 2007.07.06 14:50:00 - [164] ok, one question i have is this. What will be the prices for this years' tournement?
Trey Pator	Posted - 2007.07.06 18:37:00 - [165] Originally by: DoctorColossal Pervius Oooh. 100 points. Howz about A Megathron and 4 x Brutix's = 99 pts. Or A Maelstrom + 4 x Hurricanes = 99 pts. Imagine either of them teams steaming towards you for close range pwnage! Or 3 x Tempests + whatever. Exciting prospects. Dont those ships need to lock to do damage?
Andor Traxel Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2007.07.06 18:53:00 - [166] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog so let me get this right. In order to take part in this event you MUST be apart of an alliance. How stupid is that. Why cant we field groups of friends or people that we feel would be a good pvp group? I dont like alliances and never will. You are excluding people from competing because they choose not to be apart of an alliance. This is wrong and completely discriminatory. Sorry dog, You cant fly command ships without leadership 5, and you dont command an alliance without empire control 5. There is no reason a corporate entity can not shield themselves under the political armor of the alliance form and retain thier corporate identity. The alliance tournament is about alliances sorry. Rasa as well is not fond of large alliances yet we managed to participate and do well with a roughly 50 person corporation(alliance), bereft of pirate implants fielding a team consisting of several starters with less than 8m skill points. Train the skills, save up the money, and execute an alliance if you think you have what it takes and want to compete. I have no sympathy for your whining.
Neo Providence	Posted - 2007.07.08 01:07:00 - [167] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Alpine 69 Originally by: Seeing EyeDog so let me get this right. In order to take part in this event you MUST be apart of an alliance. How stupid is that. Why cant we field groups of friends or people that we feel would be a good pvp group? I dont like alliances and never will. You are excluding people from competing because they choose not to be apart of an alliance. This is wrong and completely discriminatory. It's called the alliance tournament, if it was for just "groups of people" then it would be called the "groups of people" tournament, obviously.... my point is this. chances are the best pvpers in this game are NOT in an alliance. Why should these playes be excluded from exhibiting their talent? ppl who have skills in pvp and not in an alliance is called a pirate. and u don't follow the rules. why would u like to be in the tournement.
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.09 14:52:00 - [168] Hello? Anybody there? It has now been 6 weeks of us arguing, giving feedback and speculating about the rules, but not a single CCP update or response on the matter. This is making it near impossible to prepare for the tournament, as we don't even know if we can be bothered to sign up if you are planning to keep the rules like they are now.
gerku Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.09 21:23:00 - [169] 10 caracals all heavy missile launchers II full off remote sensor dampers II bcs II master0B1's plan from ci !!!! watch out for him -_-
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.10 16:29:00 - [170] Sounds fun, see you out there :) Fleet Commander (V) Fear near maxed leadership
DeddyMassive Academy of War	Posted - 2007.07.10 19:16:00 - [171] Originally by: ookke Hello? Anybody there? It has now been 6 weeks of us arguing, giving feedback and speculating about the rules, but not a single CCP update or response on the matter. This is making it near impossible to prepare for the tournament, as we don't even know if we can be bothered to sign up if you are planning to keep the rules like they are now. Seconded. Kinda rude keeping us all waiting like this tbqh. GM Nova can't even muster the time to say 'The rules stand as they are' What happened to this promised round table discussion? I take it no-one at CCP really cares about this issue. All the marketing possabilities drained from it now and EveTV proving to be a money trap now or something?? ANY kinda clarification on peoples questions or even the vaguest of communication from anyone at CCP would be greatly appreciated. Have I mention recently I've got an Impoc killmail

GM Nova	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:14:00 - [172] Hi everyone. My apologies for the late reply. The tourney has been rescheduled to 31. August running to 10. September. Depending on how many teams will sign up preliminary rounds will be held the week leading up to the 31. August. Alliances now have the option of championing or representing an empire faction, Amarr, Caldari, Gallente or Minmatar. That faction will then pay half of the signup fee. If the winners are championing a faction, that faction will reward the winner in some way. The cost of entering is two billion ISK, half of which is paid for by the faction being represented. SIGNING UP: To sign up, the Alliance executor must send an application to Woratome Kikawa of the Independent Gaming Commission. The application must state if the team is championing a faction. The signup fee must be sent to Woratome Kikawa along with the application. REWARDS: For advancing from the first round, teams will be awarded 500 million ISK. For advancing from the second round, teams will be awarded 500 million ISK. For advancing from the first elimination round, a team will be awarded 1 billion ISK. For Advancing from the quarter final, a team will be awarded 1 billion ISK. For Advancing from the semi final, a team will be awarded 1 billion ISK. 3rd Place will be awarded 3 billion ISK. 2nd Place will be awarded 7 billion ISK. 1st Place will be awarded 14 billion ISK. Total monetary awards given. 1st place, 18 billion ISK total. 2nd place, 11 billion ISK total. 3rd place, 6 billion ISK total. 4th place, 3 billion ISK total. 5th to 8th place 2 billion ISK total. 9th to 16th place 1 billion ISK total. 17th to 32nd place 500 million ISK total. Next Sunday I would like to meet all of you on Sisi for a discussion and some test fights. We will use EVE voice if possible. I need to confirm this with Sharkbait to see if Sisi will be available at that time. If you would like to take part on Sunday, please see if you can form up a squad and some thought out setups which in your opinion could be a win button. We will then have some fights between squads and have a discussion afterwards. More on this tomorrow. Regards, Nova

DeddyMassive Academy of War	Posted - 2007.07.10 23:20:00 - [173] Cheers for the response. Have I mention recently I've got an Impoc killmail
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.11 01:11:00 - [174] How uninspiring! The ISK isnt really very much, and most importantly, it entirely lacks the awesome factor of the cool ships. People really craved them. If they were too expensive, make faction BCs or new unique cruisers/frigs... ISK isnt unique or special. I wont be competing this time, as the rescheduled dates mean I will have no internet access... but already this lacks the appeal of the third tournament anyway. Whoever decied to reschedule, I DO NOT thank you! I think GM Nova, you might want to consider posting the updated stuff a little more prominently as well? Its really not long to go, and you're posting without gold bars in a little thread.... news item? One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.11 07:35:00 - [175] thanks for the reply Nova, but you still leave a lot of questions and suggestions unanswered. Is there plans to allow warping inside arena? Are you planning on allowing boosters/rigs/cosmos? The closer to the tourney you push the updates about things like this, the less time people have to prepare for it. Some of these things are also deciding factors for people when they are deciding whether to sign up or not.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.11 11:29:00 - [176] Nova, are you kidding? These rewards are paltry at best, and have no awesome factor. Seriously, who thought this crap up? This is getting worse the more I read about it, no wonder several alliances decided not to take part this time. Seriously, instead of ignoring everyone's posts, maybe you should listen to them and realise that this needs to be changed very radically. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Fokus Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.11 11:34:00 - [177] Wait so, if you are championing a race does everyone on your team need to fly the ships of that race? And if not, why do the championing thing? I guess it's cool for the roleplaying alliances, but for everyone else it seems like it will be frustrating to pick which race to champion. I guess it just seems kind of odd to me that a team of dudes championing Amarr might all be flying Minmatar ships. I can appreciate the effort and thought that goes into planning a tournament like this. But overall the idea of championing seems somewhat out of place in an alliance tournament where it seems you should just be championing your alliance. Alliances that rarely have any racial affiliation because the game really doesn't have anything to encourage players who fly together to fly similar ships. Which of course is too bad, because I do at times wish Eve looked more like the videos... where you will see 5 cyclones flying together in a wing. That just doesn't happen in the game, or very rarely. This post is negative though and I really shouldn't be. I am excited about the tournament though these new dates mean I will no longer have any chance of participating.
KardonHarman Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.11 14:14:00 - [178] 2 Billion to enter? I am sure there are quite a few smaller, less well known aliances who would enjoy taking part in the tournament but for whom 2 billion is an excessive amount of isk. Is this tournament not about giving all a shot, not just the immensly rich 0.0 alliances? (ps. Note this is not a moan on behalf of my alliance because 1. I cannot speak on their behalf 2. I doubt if paying 2 billion would make that much of a dent in PL bank account 3. I am a noob who knows nothing and should stop sucking (Copyright-Shamis Orzoz)
Ohne Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.11 14:35:00 - [179] Representing a faction, what does that mean exactly ?
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:07:00 - [180] In normal time, I would have trouble raising 100m, let alone 2bil. Also; Make Faction Medals. And ships. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Natsuki Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:43:00 - [181] Originally by: Ifni In normal time, I would have trouble raising 100m, let alone 2bil. Also; Make Faction Medals. And ships. well there are medals already, I just hope they are going to be given out to the old winners too :P ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Bobbechk Spontaneous Defenestration	Posted - 2007.07.11 15:47:00 - [182] Edited by: Bobbechk on 11/07/2007 15:49:42 Originally by: Ifni In normal time, I would have trouble raising 100m, let alone 2bil. Also; Make Faction Medals. And ships. OH yeah faction ships would be awsome!... hmmm wait isnt there already loads of them? well to the topic, sound great lots of nice options out there 5 Hurricanes ftw! no wait! Maulus's and griffins ftw!
Vanakov Mek'lanavar Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.07.11 18:29:00 - [183] This all seems a bit 'low key', GM Nova, may I suggest: 1. You update your original post with the info now supplied on page 6 2. A post is made on the Events channel 3. A news item is put on Player News good luck with the tourney War is a conflict that determines not who is right -- but who is left.
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.11 22:00:00 - [184] The new rues are great, but the prices are BS. I mean really! Just one of the Corvens sold for like 180 bil or something stupid like that. This is just stupidity. The alliances in this tournament dont NEED ISK. Prizes should reflect the hard work through the tournament, not something you can buy over the internet. Bravo
Sli'co Scoser Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.07.11 22:12:00 - [185] Will this be a Fri/Sat/Sun tournament over 2 weekends like the last tournaments, or could matches take part on Mon-Thurs? Those who may need to take work off to participate/watch would like to know as soon as possible.
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.11 22:48:00 - [186] It's a Fri/Sat/Sun over two consecutive weekends. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.11 22:50:00 - [187] Originally by: Natsuki Originally by: Ifni In normal time, I would have trouble raising 100m, let alone 2bil. Also; Make Faction Medals. And ships. well there are medals already, I just hope they are going to be given out to the old winners too :P And presenters plspls You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Ephemeral Waves The Nine Gates Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.12 01:15:00 - [188] Originally by: GM Nova We will use EVE voice if possible. Get real. None of the people even remotely interested in this tourney are going to be using EvE Voice. Set up a TS or Vent server like a real alliance does. I make sigs
Sli'co Scoser Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.07.12 05:04:00 - [189] Originally by: Ifni It's a Fri/Sat/Sun over two consecutive weekends. Thank you very much.
Pokerizer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.12 07:17:00 - [190] Originally by: DHB WildCat Edited by: DHB WildCat on 12/07/2007 01:27:13 The new rules are great, but the prizes are BS. I mean really! Just one of the Corvus sold for 180 bil or something stupid like that. This is just stupidity. The alliances in this tournament, DONT NEED ISK. Prizes should reflect the hard work through the tournament, not something you can buy over the internet. divided amongst the 10 pilots, assuming I read everything right, each guy gets 1.8 bil? As soon as I pod them with thier 2 bil implant sets, then they actually will lose isk even though they may win the tourny....lmao Bravo OMG back to the isk, dont you have enough shiny toys? :P
Ambo	Posted - 2007.07.12 07:26:00 - [191] Hi, I'm somthing of an outsider here but I enjoyed watching the last tournament and was looking forward to this one. Now I may be wrong here but it seems to me as if very little thought and preperation is going into this from the organisers. There are a ton of legitimate questions in this thread that seem to have simply been ignored. I'm not even going to bother restating them all because it seems they won't get answered here. Maybe there is lots of info going to the signed up teams behind the scenes but from this thread it seems that there is very little thought going into this at all, are the organisers subtly trying to kill it off or somthing? I hope I'm worng and I hope it'll be as fun to watch as the last ones but the apparent lack or information and organisation is worrying.
Raem Civrie Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.12 09:14:00 - [192] These prizes humiliate and demean us all. 18 billion? What the hell? First two had carriers and motherships and CNR's. Then we got unique ships. Now we get... lol? Is this how CCP views the tournament, as a tedious but necessary event that everyone wants to get over with, but hopefully without having to affect the game or think much about it? Because that's how it looks. You can make this grand and spectacular, or you can make it low-key and uninteresting. It's starting to look like the latter, and my care levels are rapidly dropping because of it. ---- This is an alt
gerku Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.12 11:52:00 - [193] Edited by: gerku on 12/07/2007 11:54:18 Originally by: Tulayia As a participant in last tournament I will give my opinion on the new rules. (This chracter im posting on is not my main) 1. Point system needs to be looked at. There is a big difference between a tier 3 battleship and a tier 1 battleship. 2. Podding allowed. I see many problems with this. Poor alliances will no longer use implants in this tourney. Rich alliances will use implants every round and wont mind losing their pod as they will just replace them. I know I for one will not use my Full crystal set like I did last tournament. I may have 10bisk, but im not willing to just give up my pod and lose 2b isk especially when there is a warp disruption bubble there. Three, people who lose thier ship will have to die or warp out and cant watch the match finish. 3. Why not T1 Rigs? They are pretty cheap no? 4. Not having a player meeting to discuss the rules like last 2 tournaments? Bad Idea. Its like not beta testing a game. Just my opinion. /signed edit: - tier3bs and faction bs same points - Tier 2 a bit less and tier 1 a bit more less - same with tier 2 and tier1 BC make the point system a big bitter adjust a bit
Shadow Serpent	Posted - 2007.07.12 15:29:00 - [194] Originally by: Raem Civrie These prizes humiliate and demean us all. 18 billion? What the hell? First two had carriers and motherships and CNR's. Then we got unique ships. Now we get... lol? Is this how CCP views the tournament, as a tedious but necessary event that everyone wants to get over with, but hopefully without having to affect the game or think much about it? Because that's how it looks. You can make this grand and spectacular, or you can make it low-key and uninteresting. It's starting to look like the latter, and my care levels are rapidly dropping because of it. /Signed I am not in an alliance, but if I were in one, I would not even bother with the tournament this year. In all honesty the prizes are a joke. This is suppose to be a prestigious event and winning it means you're alliance is declared the top PvP alliance in the game (until next year's tournament). Where are the prizes to justify this prestigious title? You're giving away a handful of isk, where's the thought process here? As it's been stated, the prizes in the past were Carriers, Motherships and Elite Faction Battleships. You're handing out 18 billion isk to the winner. Did you ever think that to win the tournament, the winning team most likely would have dished out that amount of isk to begin with? So the most you are going to gain is a few isk unless by some miraculous feet, the winning team only fits T1 fitted cruisers and plugs in no implants throughout the entire tournament. Also, I totally agree with Pilk, Trevedian and all the others, COSMOS modules should be allowed. They are nowhere near as good as most Officer/Commander mods. Also Rigs should be allowed. Rigs are a part of the game now and have now become a basic fitting for a top notch PvP ship setup. By the way GM Nova, don't take this personally, but I am going to call you out on something. You were absent from May 25th to July 10th. Not one post, not one word. And then when you do post on July 10th, you tell everyone that the tournament has been rescheduled and will occur in 3 weeks time (2 weeks ahead of the previously scheduled date). As the person in charge or this event, you are accountable to the EVE Player Community and to CCP to give us proper updates, answer questions and provide feedback. You were completely absent for more then 6 weeks. Where is the focus, dedication and organization here? If I were this disorganized in my own job, I would quickly find myself on the unemployment line. On top of it all, in your July 10th post, you vaguely state that you'd like for everyone to meet you next Sunday on Sisi for a discussion and some test fights. There's no time listed, no location stated, and contrary to what you may think or believe, I don't know of a corp or alliance in game that uses EVE Voice. I think this needs to be looked at and addressed. What's the point of watching or participating in a tournament when it clearly looks like CCP doesn't care to make it a grand event?

GM Nova	Posted - 2007.07.12 17:43:00 - [195] Hi all. The rules as they are posted at the start of this thread are NOT final. They may and will most likely be changed. Regarding COSMOS modules. Some cosmos module will allow pilots to bypass the restrictions on some ships, such as CPU restrictions. The idea was to not have them in as some ships would benefit immensly from them and some ships not at all. We may yet allow them. Regarding Podding. I do not believe that Implants will be the deciding factor in the tourney and fielding a full set of something may cause players considerable financial loss should they lose them. Pod kills will also award teams with extra points. This means that some contestants may want to fit warp scramblers on their ships and thus lose a bit of tanking capability.

ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.12 18:09:00 - [196] Shadow Serpent... I completely agree with you. I mailed [email protected] regarding the same issue, asking for Nova to be replaced by someone else. I suggest everyone else feeling the same way should send a mail too. To GM Nova: the rules have been "not final" for 6 weeks now, with zero changes. When are they going to get updated?
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.12 19:22:00 - [197] Prizes are bull**. You can't seriously give half a trillion isk to the last tournament winners, and then make their prizes worth MORE by never reissuing any more. And the idea of 1.8b per participant (assuming it's always the same ten pilots) doesn't even cover a full set of piwwat 'plants and 5% hardwirings. Sponsoring looks suspiciously like bull*. Why would I not* be sponsored, exactly? Does it matter who I pick? I guess I'll go Amarr, because their women are pretty? I mean, seriously. Podding is just ridiculous; short of a 'dictor sphere or mobile bubble, you CANNOT catch a pod with anything short of a sensor-boosted 'ceptor, a stupid opponent who doesn't know how to spam the warp button, and lag on your side. The part of all this that really **es me off, though? I'll still be there, I'll still be wearing a full pirate set, for every match, as will every other member of my team, right down to the last tech1 pilot. If we take first place, it'll probably be at the COST, AFTER PRIZES of several tens of billions of isk. So I guess what really es me off, then, is that I'm stupid for wanting to participate? --P Kosh*: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.*

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.12 19:24:00 - [198] I do apologize for the lack of replies. The tourney is scheduled for 31. August whish is more than 6 weeks from now, not 3 weeks. It was moved because EVE TV is to cover a gaming convention in the US at the time it was set to take place. Next Sunday I would like to meet all of you on the test server at 15.00 hrs for a discussion and for testing of the point system. In the test I would like to use EVE voice.

New Zim	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:27:00 - [199] Edited by: New Zim on 12/07/2007 20:27:25

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:28:00 - [200] The following issues need to be addressed and I will do so now. - No warping inside the arena. This is simply not technically possible. In order to allow the EVE TV client to maintain lock when a target warps requires core programming changes. We do not have the resources to spend. As I have already noted, this is something I really wanted to allow. - Cosmos that has been allowed for the last 3 tournaments without any problems is now suddenly not allowed. Why? This is still under consideration. - Rigs have been introduced properly and balanced since last years tournament, why are they still not allowed? Rigs allow ships to excel in certain ways, most notably tanking. We fear that rigs will drag the fights on unnecessarily. - You implemented drugs, why not allow them in the tournament? Drugs are very expensive and hard to come by. They would give certain alliances that have easier access an unfair advantage over others. Still under consideration. - the rules mention 8 brackets of 4 teams each, still the total number of alliances says 64, why? Bad wording on my part really. These 32 teams are the one advancing from the preliminaries. The preliminaries can unfortunately not be televised. - His OP still states the wrong dates for the tournament. Fixed. We could simply allow everything with no interference. That would actually be easiest on us and would lessen the workload on those involved. However, the championship would become less of a test of skill than a test of wealth and power. Perhaps that is the way to go. Perhaps best would be to allow tech one stuff only. Please tell me your thoughts.

ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.12 20:33:00 - [201] Thanks for the reply, better late than never ;)
BLOOD THIRSTY	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:12:00 - [202] Edited by: BLOOD THIRSTY on 12/07/2007 21:15:13 Nova my only input to you is this. The rules are up to you and your team. Everyone will have to follow them, and everyone will have the same foothold. PLEASE ALLOWING PODDING! Nothing would give me greater pleasure to watch Pilk win the tourny but lose ISK cause I podded his ass 8P. Which brings me to my next point. ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! As stated in the previous point, I can pod someone with a full set of pirate implants and they will LOSE ISK even if they win everything!? Get us some real prizes because that is some of the biggest bull I have ever seen.
Ambo	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:25:00 - [203] Marvelous. Thanks for the replys. At least we know that these things are being thought about now. Given 6 weeks to work things out and a few discussions with the players involved I'm sure things will turn out well. Oh, and I promise I'll donate 100 isk to the winners to bolster your prize fund
Sli'co Scoser Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.07.12 21:48:00 - [204] Originally by: GM Nova The following issues need to be addressed and I will do so now. - You implemented drugs, why not allow them in the tournament? Drugs are very expensive and hard to come by. They would give certain alliances that have easier access an unfair advantage over others. Still under consideration. Just like the pirate implants that are allowed that drop in certain 0.0 areas and are quite expensive? Either make both drugs and implants illegal for the tourney or allow them. At the very least, drug use has the possibility of disaster for the pilot, whereas pirate implants are always a bonus.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:04:00 - [205] Quote: Bad wording on my part really. These 32 teams are the one advancing from the preliminaries. The preliminaries can unfortunately not be televised. That's new, why are we having prelims? "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Ace Frehley Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:32:00 - [206] 2 bill isk and the reward is 18?? Eh, give some real prices, and you scare away smaller alliances. Btw when is the last day for an alliance to be created if you wanna join? _______________________________________________ Beer, Eve and no shaved babes!!!

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:41:00 - [207] Originally by: BLOOD THIRSTY Edited by: BLOOD THIRSTY on 12/07/2007 21:15:13Which brings me to my next point. ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! As stated in the previous point, I can pod someone with a full set of pirate implants and they will LOSE ISK even if they win everything!? Get us some real prizes because that is some of the biggest bull I have ever seen. That is kind of the point. While allowing implants we wanted to discourage their use by allowing podding. Another point is this; if podding is forbudden, pilots will not be able to use smartbombs. If smartbombs are out of the picture, Drones become the flavour of the day. I would really like to see at least one disco-phoon.

SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.12 22:45:00 - [208] GM Nova, First and foremost thank you for this tournament, and the ever changing rules. My only concerns are the following. 1) The prizes, Is the 18billion if you win the actual isk given for that one match? Or is it the sum collected from every match won up to that point including the final one? If 18 billion is the total winnings through out the tournament, then I must agree with everyone else here in saying that its a very poor payout compared to the last 3 tournaments. 2) Faction sponsor, Please explain how this benefits the team besides the 1/2 entry fee cost. And are there limitations? Such as only being allowed to fly your factions ships? Will the faction's be giving teams bonuses on their behalf?

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.12 23:50:00 - [209] Originally by: SATAN 1) The prizes, Is the 18billion if you win the actual isk given for that one match? Or is it the sum collected from every match won up to that point including the final one? If 18 billion is the total winnings through out the tournament, then I must agree with everyone else here in saying that its a very poor payout compared to the last 3 tournaments. 2) Faction sponsor, Please explain how this benefits the team besides the 1/2 entry fee cost. And are there limitations? Such as only being allowed to fly your factions ships? Will the faction's be giving teams bonuses on their behalf? Hello SATAN 18 Billion would be the total accumulated ISK won yes. Note that this is roughly the price of a mothership. Also note that even if a team is not in the top 3 places, it still receives a bit of ISK. Faction sponsor could grant standings bonus to all members of the alliance, should the team win, and possibly reward the Alliance with some special items benefitting the alliance. (Gurista Deathstar anyone? - possibly)

SATAN BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:11:00 - [210] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: SATAN 1) The prizes, Is the 18billion if you win the actual isk given for that one match? Or is it the sum collected from every match won up to that point including the final one? If 18 billion is the total winnings through out the tournament, then I must agree with everyone else here in saying that its a very poor payout compared to the last 3 tournaments. 2) Faction sponsor, Please explain how this benefits the team besides the 1/2 entry fee cost. And are there limitations? Such as only being allowed to fly your factions ships? Will the faction's be giving teams bonuses on their behalf? Hello SATAN 18 Billion would be the total accumulated ISK won yes. Note that this is roughly the price of a mothership. Also note that even if a team is not in the top 3 places, it still receives a bit of ISK. Faction sponsor could grant standings bonus to all members of the alliance, should the team win, and possibly reward the Alliance with some special items benefitting the alliance. (Gurista Deathstar anyone? - possibly) GM Nova, Thanks for the prompt responce, but I feel you need to catch up on some real facts in EvE atm. Motherships, if you can get them are 35 billion plus several have sold for this price and there is no sign of that changing. The last tournament gave each winning participant roughly 150+ billion isk in value of say a Corvus. The one previous to that gave Mothership/carriers, and such. 18 Billion isk /10 is 1.8 billion each, please reconsider changing the isk value to a Mothership if that is what you are judging by. I know for a fact many more would be interested in winning an actual ship, rather than some isk. Do you honestly think anyone that enters this tournament cares about faction standings? I can honestly speak for everyone I know in EvE when I say NO. PS. Can you clarify about being sponsored by a faction, is there limitations to it? Its kinda hard to apply and say you want Gallante sponsorship, and then find out that you are only allowed to fly those faction ships.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.13 00:58:00 - [211] Originally by: GM Nova - the rules mention 8 brackets of 4 teams each, still the total number of alliances says 64, why? Bad wording on my part really. These 32 teams are the one advancing from the preliminaries. The preliminaries can unfortunately not be televised. WHAT ??? I cant beleive this bit hasnt been picked up, or clearly explained in the OP! Why on earth can they not be televised? The opening rounds were among the best fights last time, with the notable exception of IAC vs COW. Also, this is a dramatic change in format from the last time - why the hell do you not just have a "qualifying round" of 32 1v1s and THEN have the rather excellent group stages? This tiny detail of yours totally changes the tournament, and frankly makes it a LOT worse to watch on TV, as well as to fight in. Its also very ******* demoralising for the small alliances who will try to enter for the first time, and will fail without their chance to be on eve-tv. I would be surprised if you got 64 contenders in all honesty, when half wont even get to watch their team fight - it will just be an announcement "we won" or "we lost". Its TOTALLY against the spirit of the tournament. Nobody gave much of a crap about tournament no. 1, because nobody who wasnt fighting could really know what was going on. In tournaments 2 and 3, half of eve was docked the entire two weekends, addicted to the action. That's the difference. My example isnt even relevant to my alliance, we fought last time and made it to the last 8, but as our best (and closest) fights, including toppling ex-finalists ASCN, were in the group stage, under your format I can certainly be sure I would NOT be taking my team in, were we small new-comers again, this time around! As I cant make it due to your completely unpublicised and stupid (imho, ofc,as its only affecting me due to my RL) reschedule, I wont be leading my team again this time, but with your format changes (not rule changes, I think they're better this time actually) I have no idea if they'll want to enter anyway. GM Nova, I appreciate you feeding back in this thread, and Im sure you do want the tournament to go well, but I honestly think you're seriously mis-managing this formerly exciting event. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.13 01:07:00 - [212] Originally by: SATAN PS. Can you clarify about being sponsored by a faction, is there limitations to it? Its kinda hard to apply and say you want Gallante sponsorship, and then find out that you are only allowed to fly those faction ships. And, on a similar note--what possible benefit is there to being NOT sponsored? --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Sli'co Scoser Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:02:00 - [213] If preliminaries are held during the week, how soon will we know the exact schedule? I'd hate to have to take off work for an entire week just so I'd be able to participate whenever CCP decides to schedule a match.
Ravelin Eb Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:42:00 - [214] Lol 18 billion isk. Excuse me while i dig around my wallet for a larger number. OH THERE IT IS. Seriously up the prize's, last tournament half a trillion isk, this tournament? please.... The 2 billion entry fee is a joke, alot of smaller alliance's wont be able to compete a damn when they are going to spending such vast isk on pirate implants and entry fees and whatnot. With no prize to outweigh the expenditure. One of the best parts of this tourny is to watch the lesser alliances and underdogs fight it out and win, with such rules you really hamper the chances of this happening.
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:52:00 - [215] Okay the cheapest MoM selling is about 35-38 Billion isk. 18 billion is not even 1/2 that. And if your resoning is to give an alliance 1 MoM, then 1 pilot will reap the rewards of the tournament and the rest get screwed over. This is nowhere near what the last few tournaments have been, and is completely unfair to the winner of this one. Please reconsider the prizes and make it something fun.... Like faction Tier three Battleships 8). Just an Idea. WildCat
Abye Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.13 02:56:00 - [216] Noone cares if Bayern Mnnchen in the German Bundesliga or Real Madrid in the Premiera Division win, the smaller teams are the spice in such leagues. Even when Muffins of Mayhem or Goonswarm got their asses kicked, they were more fun to watch than bob steamrolling another team. My biggest problem is tho that compared to the gigantic rewards from the last tournament, the new prizes are a joke. ___ Inappropriate signature. Please do not use this signature. Email us for more information -Eldo ([email protected])
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.13 06:37:00 - [217] will the entry fee be returned? it is prolly stated somewhere but i missed it..
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.13 08:10:00 - [218] Originally by: GM Nova - No warping inside the arena. This is simply not technically possible. In order to allow the EVE TV client to maintain lock when a target warps requires core programming changes. We do not have the resources to spend. As I have already noted, this is something I really wanted to allow. That's a MUCH better explanation than "Not allowed due to technical issues." thank you. I would like to suggest that the organizers consider whether EVE TV is better served by: - an exciting event with a wide range of tactical options for contestants or - a continuous lock on all ships competing Tactical warping would open up a wide range of options, see real diversity in ship choices, and make this a serious contest of player skill. Without it, 90% of matches will be won by the sensor-damping gang that locks first and is able to maintain range, and the remainder will be slugfests at point-blank range between teams that happened to land on top of each other. Personally, I would much rather see imperfect TV coverage of a great event than perfect TV coverage of a boring event. Recruitment FAQ
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.13 10:07:00 - [219] You might aswell set interdictors to same cost as a t1 frig if they won't be used for keeping your opponent from making slingshots on you :I I know it's tricky, but seriously, how many times will the whole team warp? In most matches probably only a few times, the cameramen should be able to handle the relocking there fine. If warping inside arena isn't allowed, I'm afraid we will see plenty of huginn+damps lineups, which are basically invulnerable without slingshots. Atleast put the random beacons near each others if you don't allow warping inside arena, so using damps atleast involves a huge risk of landing on top of the enemy team in the beginning of the match.
Kayleigh Lothian Minmatar KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:34:00 - [220] Blah blah blah, relock is not hard. Well, I think that you will find that losing the status bars on the left and right hand side of the screen during fighting will be annoying. Prizes... I thought this tourny was about glory and the ability to gloat afterwards, not isk. It seems I was wrong. Not being able to televize the preliminary rounds however is something that is a big mistake. The further the torney goes on, the more streamlined the teams will be (judging from the earlier ones). It's the opening rounds that will field the craziest set up teams, and it is there they might be succesfull. Also, I think the Alliance Tournament loses a bit of it's appeal for the "lesser alliances" if there is a chance they will not be on eve-tv. But that might be the thought behind it all, to not get more then the 32 alliances to sign up...
Phillipe Ferdor	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:35:00 - [221] Thanks for the info Nova! But I have a couple of questions. 1. Will the entry fee be refunded as it was the case last time? 2. Why did you choose to give away such small prices this time?
Lazal Nahn Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:36:00 - [222] Sorry, alt post. This is my main.
Ace Frehley Minmatar Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.13 11:42:00 - [223] Bah, pre qualifing round!?? Wtf, now I think I dont wanna set up a team. 2 bil isk and then just dont get the chance to meet the big boys!? Take it down to 32 teams, you wont get 64 teams anyway with the rules and the teams that goin for the victory will most likly lose isk. So know you will get a tournument where the wallets again is the decided factor.... I say it again, 32 teams in 8 groups everything on eve-tv and just scrap the pre-round, cuz you wont get 64 teams anyway _______________________________________________ Beer, Eve and no shaved babes!!!
The Anointed Caldari KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.13 13:25:00 - [224] I must admit, these rules are interesting to say the least, they leave it so wide open for suprise victories. I dont like the idea of the pre lims, especially seeing as people are bound to meet people such as BoB, MC, Terra Incognito, Red skull (), in their first match, and then never actually get to make it to eve tv. Has a form of seeding been though of? Such as the top 2 or 3 teams in every group last tourny go striaght through? That imo would at least mean that the other teams competing would have a more enjoyable pre lim contest. I would also like to see some more thoughts on the influence factions have on it, even if it is not seen as a large reward, some sort of progressional reward in faction standings would be nice to see. I agree with most other people in this thread that the rewards are not enough to justify the smaller alliances getting involved, especially with the entry fee being quite large. Wouldnt mind seeing some sort of loyalty point reward being given to inidvidual members of a team, for whatever faction they represent, including an increase in the the isk value, or perhaps something more unique even if it is only a frigate or perhaps something to do with the upcoming factional warfare. I would quite like to see incremental rewards from a represented faction represented with unique things rather than small amounts of isk, as I think that is a dull way to reward participation. You mentioned, perhaps as a joke, that 'perhaps tech 1 only should be used'. But I actually think that would make for a good tournament, it is very much a field leveler and would, in my opinion, lead to a really interesting tournament. It would allow for a level playing field, if you disallowed all tech 2 varients and all implants and I am sure that a lot of people would have more fun with the tourny that way, with smaller risks involved and the ability to really experiment. The tourny is very much a chest beating exercise for a lot of people, whereas I think it should be more of a fun spectacle in which a lot of people can participate. Last tourny the tactics used by MC and their bumping were quite fun to watch and made me smile whilst doing so, but the reason you dont see more of that form of, fun, quirky tactic is that everyone that enters from the smaller alliances do not want to actually risk anything if they can avoid it, and look at the tourny as less of a spectacle and more of do or die situation. The teams that do well in the tourny will no doubt do so with or without pirate implants and tech 2 varients, but the smaller teams may do better with tech 1 varients and no pirate implants. I would very much like to see a tournament like that.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:05:00 - [225] This tournament is NOT the place for an absolute all-tech1 rule. Your performance here represents the pride and honor of your entire alliance. Are you saying your entire alliance can't spend 100m on a Cerberus? Of course not. And there are many ships without a workable tech-1 equivalent, as with the recon ships' range bonuses. This tournament is designed for e-peen, through and through. Hell, last tournament saw the second-biggest e-peen in the game brought out for, what, six matches in a row? And there were whispers that the biggest e-peen (the FedaThron) might make an appearance, too. Tyrrax lost, at minimum, 60b isk when he lost that Impoc, but IAC's area of influence has more than doubled since the tournament. Losing that Impoc, and the way he handled it, were, to many people, emblematic of a fun-loving, balls-to-the-wall style of play, and their recruitment soared. Meanwhile, ASCN turtled, and turtled, and turtled, and died. And died in Eve, too. Now, if you want a fun scrap with ten members of each alliance in solid-T1, I'd love to fight with you; I think that would be great fun. But I'm fighting for pride and honor, and so's the rest of my team, and I'm going to field the absolute best ship I can, for every match, every time. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
The Anointed Caldari KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.13 14:39:00 - [226] Yeah, im not saying we cant afford it, the point I was trying to make, is the same point that you enforced with saying that an all tech 1 fight would be good fun. Probably to just as much fun to watch as to be involved in. From the point of view of epeen, yeah if you happen to find an impoc, or fed thron, bring it out and show it off. But other than that, there is nothing that special about a cerberus or most other t2 ships for that matter. Like I said, the good teams that do well, would do well with or without t2 varients and pirate implants.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.13 15:20:00 - [227] Agreed on the seeding. I think the top 3 teams from each group last time should go through to the group stages this time. Everyone who enters deserves to be on EVETV. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Andor Traxel Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2007.07.13 17:56:00 - [228] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: BLOOD THIRSTY Edited by: BLOOD THIRSTY on 12/07/2007 21:15:13Which brings me to my next point. ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! As stated in the previous point, I can pod someone with a full set of pirate implants and they will LOSE ISK even if they win everything!? Get us some real prizes because that is some of the biggest bull I have ever seen. That is kind of the point. While allowing implants we wanted to discourage their use by allowing podding. Another point is this; if podding is forbudden, pilots will not be able to use smartbombs. If smartbombs are out of the picture, Drones become the flavour of the day. I would really like to see at least one disco-phoon. [/quote Podding will have no effect on implants. This is the real reason that pod killing is allowed. And with this statement..... get out my tinfoil hat...
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.07.13 18:01:00 - [229] The cash prize is rubbish anyhow, any one prize ship from the previous tournaments commanded more than that on the market. Also Known As
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.13 20:18:00 - [230] Originally by: GM Nova Hi all. The rules as they are posted at the start of this thread are NOT final. They may and will most likely be changed. Regarding COSMOS modules. Some cosmos module will allow pilots to bypass the restrictions on some ships, such as CPU restrictions. The idea was to not have them in as some ships would benefit immensly from them and some ships not at all. We may yet allow them. If you're asking me to spend 2b per pilot per match on a full set of pirate and 5% hardwires, let me spend 20m on a medium energy neutralizer that's significantly worse than best-named T1. Originally by: GM Nova Regarding Podding. I do not believe that Implants will be the deciding factor in the tourney and fielding a full set of something may cause players considerable financial loss should they lose them. Pod kills will also award teams with extra points. This means that some contestants may want to fit warp scramblers on their ships and thus lose a bit of tanking capability. They weren't the deciding factor last tournament, either; AXE fielded full pirate sets and got knocked out by IAC's nosfest in the quarterfinals, RONIN fielded a grand total of, what, half a low-grade Slave set between all of them, and got second place. Tactics always win. But you wouldn't demand that pilots fly their Curses with Recon Ships IV; everything in Eve is about squeezing out that last couple percentage points of advantage, often at horrendous (relative) cost to the baseline. A t2 shield boost amp is about a million, a Pith X-Type/Estamel's is well over a billion, three orders of magnitude more, for 25% more effect. So everyone who is anyone is going to be fielding 3% hardwires, most teams are going to field full pirate sets and 5%'s, and many will put full pirate sets in every one of their pilots, along with the rarer COSMOS implants, to boot. Even if they get podded every match. TWD and Tyrrax have already said their teams will be doing just that. You may be trying to hold the line on isk expenditure, but all you're doing it making it MORE expensive to compete at the highest levels of effectiveness--and at the end of the day, RONIN did it on the cheap, but BoB won. If your only concern is smartbombs, just adopt a policy of "podding by smartbomb is allowed, other means are not", or simply reimburse poddings--I've gotten popped with implants and hardwires before, petitioned, and gotten them all back. No reason we can't do that here. Point is, the podding rule, as it stands, accomplishes the exact opposite of what you wanted, and makes the 18b isk top prize all the more paltry in comparison. Not that 18b was ever anything but an insult to a fully-fitted team, mind you. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Eleven Eleven Caldari The Fray	Posted - 2007.07.13 23:35:00 - [231] Posting in a thread with poor updates on an alliance tourney delayed for EveTv staff convenience, with lame prizes, shoddy rules, and even shoddier management staff.
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.14 00:07:00 - [232] Originally by: GM Nova Faction sponsor could grant standings bonus to all members of the alliance, should the team win, and possibly reward the Alliance with some special items benefitting the alliance. (Gurista Deathstar anyone? - possibly) In the case of our alliance, who is absolutely opposed to all of the factions (even the pirate ones) would our unique and detailed roleplay background mean we get screwed out of all the fancy stuff? Of course we realize that from a developer's point of view, it is a strong point for furthering immersion to give the prime empire factions more exposure if you so will, especially in regards to upcoming faction warfare. However, we kindly ask you to not disregard the rich roleplay that some players have built in this giant sandbox of EVE that we all love. For us, not being sponsored by a faction would be a roleplay statement. We don't mind paying a practically doubled entry fee for this, not one bit. If you excuse me being blunt, it would suck to be screwed out of any unique rewards, just because the cause we fight for, very legitimate and well founded in the EVE background, is opposed to all of the regressive empires. A reply would be very appreciated. --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.14 00:09:00 - [233] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Originally by: GM Nova Faction sponsor could grant standings bonus to all members of the alliance, should the team win, and possibly reward the Alliance with some special items benefitting the alliance. (Gurista Deathstar anyone? - possibly) In the case of our alliance, who is absolutely opposed to all of the factions (even the pirate ones) would our unique and detailed roleplay background mean we get screwed out of all the fancy stuff? Of course we realize that from a developer's point of view, it is a strong point for furthering immersion to give the prime empire factions more exposure if you so will, especially in regards to upcoming faction warfare. However, we kindly ask you to not disregard the rich roleplay that some players have built in this giant sandbox of EVE that we all love. For us, not being sponsored by a faction would be a roleplay statement. We don't mind paying a practically doubled entry fee for this, not one bit. If you excuse me being blunt, it would suck to be screwed out of any unique rewards, just because the cause we fight for, very legitimate and well founded in the EVE background, is opposed to all of the regressive empires. A reply would be very appreciated. Seconded. Looking for a relaxed ingame RP channel to join? La Maison De Tous Les Plaisirs
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.14 03:42:00 - [234] Funnily enough I like the rules. I think the "random" excitement of anything can happen pvp is much better than artificially fixed tank and gank battles where people don't have to think. I also like the podding of people investing ridiculously amounts into rare implant sets. (I can forsee some battlefield ransoming going on during the tourney on live eve tv and that would be hilarious). But I've got to agree with Tareen and Sakura. Star Fraction doesn't fight for filthy nationalist swine like the old empires :) Anyway, we're in. See you guys there. Star Fraction is recruiting
Marovinchian Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.14 05:55:00 - [235] rules and randomness of fights = good podkilling = good ew/logistics/etc = good PRIZES = worst ive ever seen, and hardly worth participating unless you plan to fly crap ships with no implants the entire tourney....but if that's the plan.... :\
Sarah Meiskin Fatalix Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.14 07:27:00 - [236] Are Gang Link Modules/Implants allowed? Is your team allowed to gang eachother and share the Gang Bonus Benifits? --- Those who say the blind cannot lead cannot see beyond their own noses.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.07.14 09:16:00 - [237] Are bombs allowed ? ----- History is made by whinners Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.14 09:28:00 - [238] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Are bombs allowed ? Would kind of defeat the purpose of the smaller things, no? Doubt it. Looking for a relaxed ingame RP channel to join? La Maison De Tous Les Plaisirs
Helganstandt InNova Tech Inc Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.07.14 13:35:00 - [239] I'm probably the only person who likes the reward, but I say keep it. Maybe that will encourage people not to use such ridiculously expensive implants. Unless all they care about is the pride, which hey, you gotta sacrifice something to keep your pride. I'd love to see people actually LOSE money just to win the tourney.
Trevedian Amarr KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.14 14:39:00 - [240] Edited by: Trevedian on 14/07/2007 14:40:36 I love the watching the Alliance PVP Tournament... That being said; I have HUGE issues with some of these rules and how they will affect viewers... 1) According to the rules as they stand presently... It is possible that you could have 10 blackbirds warp on one side against 10 mallers, etc. on the other... 20 targets in the arena would make it impossible to do commentary. 2) The 250km Arena is too large to make for interesting fights, one of the saving graces of the last tourney was the smaller arena which made nos useful and boring Turtle Tank teams like ASCN were suddenly rubbish. Make it 60km. 3) COSMOS modules should be allowed. 4) Create some new unique ships, EVERYONE WANTS THEM, Except whiners like DigitalCommunist cuz he already has two. Is it really that difficult and time-consuming to add a new skin and give a boost in attributes to a ship? Have a meeting with well known PVPer's or something and hash these issues out... I ardently want this tournament to be a success... But that hinges more on whether it is interesting to watch MORE than how closely it resembles actual PVP. Fights that go the distance, where few ships are killed, bore viewers. Give EVE players explosions, make the Tourney fast paced! Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Waragha 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.14 15:08:00 - [241] Originally by: Trevedian Edited by: Trevedian on 14/07/2007 14:40:36 I love the watching the Alliance PVP Tournament... That being said; I have HUGE issues with some of these rules and how they will affect viewers... 1) According to the rules as they stand presently... It is possible that you could have 10 blackbirds warp on one side against 10 mallers, etc. on the other... 20 targets in the arena would make it impossible to do commentary. 2) The 250km Arena is too large to make for interesting fights, one of the saving graces of the last tourney was the smaller arena which made nos useful and boring Turtle Tank teams like ASCN were suddenly rubbish. Make it 60km. 3) COSMOS modules should be allowed. 4) Create some new unique ships, EVERYONE WANTS THEM, Except whiners like DigitalCommunist cuz he already has two. Is it really that difficult and time-consuming to add a new skin and give a boost in attributes to a ship? Have a meeting with well known PVPer's or something and hash these issues out... I ardently want this tournament to be a success... But that hinges more on whether it is interesting to watch MORE than how closely it resembles actual PVP. Fights that go the distance, where few ships are killed, bore viewers. Give EVE players explosions, make the Tourney fast paced! Been said again and again. Nova doesnt seem to want or have time to change the rules. Good the commentators are starting to complain now aswell. Something might happen :)
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.14 18:07:00 - [242] The rules isnt the problem, the unpublicised and bizarre format changes (no televised prelims??) and unexplained mechanics like the (pointless!) faction championing are the problem. ISK prizes are just dull, as well. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
TRIGGER MASS	Posted - 2007.07.14 21:21:00 - [243] 1. contending isnt about winning isk . Its about proving how much better you are than the opposing teams. 2. Prizes should not be isk. They should be in the form of exclusive item(s)(even if its afree pass to the fanfest etc.)Perhaps roleplay slightly and allow the ingame faction that the alliance represents reward the winners in some form . 3. Allow cosmos items 4. Most if not ALL players look forward to and eagerly await these alliance tournaments and therfore every round should be filmed for hostorical purposes if nothing else . The tournamnents should be pushed more too by CCP in the form of stories , advertisisng etc . Make these tournaments the best so far Nova and do us proud !
The Anointed Caldari KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.14 21:38:00 - [244] Edited by: The Anointed on 14/07/2007 21:38:57 Originally by: Trevedian Have a meeting with well known PVPer's or something and hash these issues out... Thats the only part I dont agree on with you Trev. The tourny does not and will never represent real PVP. For me, it is about a fun fight in a controled environment, nothing more, and just speaking to well known pvpers will get you no where. If it was real pvp you'd flip a coin and the looser would have to jump through a gate into the other team. Or youd have to spend an hour chasing eachother round a system. It should be fun for people to watch, and have little to do with isk and a hell of a lot to do with the skills of the team as a whole. The more people try and make it like real pvp, the further away from an exciting spectacle you are getting.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.14 22:21:00 - [245] Edited by: QwaarJet on 14/07/2007 22:23:56 Originally by: Trevedian Edited by: Trevedian on 14/07/2007 14:40:36 I love the watching the Alliance PVP Tournament... That being said; I have HUGE issues with some of these rules and how they will affect viewers... 1) According to the rules as they stand presently... It is possible that you could have 10 blackbirds warp on one side against 10 mallers, etc. on the other... 20 targets in the arena would make it impossible to do commentary. 2) The 250km Arena is too large to make for interesting fights, one of the saving graces of the last tourney was the smaller arena which made nos useful and boring Turtle Tank teams like ASCN were suddenly rubbish. Make it 60km. 3) COSMOS modules should be allowed. 4) Create some new unique ships, EVERYONE WANTS THEM, Except whiners like DigitalCommunist cuz he already has two. Is it really that difficult and time-consuming to add a new skin and give a boost in attributes to a ship? Have a meeting with well known PVPer's or something and hash these issues out... I ardently want this tournament to be a success... But that hinges more on whether it is interesting to watch MORE than how closely it resembles actual PVP. Fights that go the distance, where few ships are killed, bore viewers. Give EVE players explosions, make the Tourney fast paced! I agree with you and disagree with you at the same time. As somewhat of a tournament veteran, I've learned to not give a monkey's behind what the viewers think of our strats. Whatever wins is all i'm concerned about. However, despite being on different sides of the viewpoint, I find that we want the same things, if for different reasons. Simply put : Too many ships too big an arena COSMOS disallowed Non-Unique prizes No concrete meeting, and a feeling that Nova has made up his mind anyway. Your wording about the meeting was a bit dodgy, do you mean well known real PvPers or tournament veterans? Because I would have thought that from the pilots perspective that someone who has participated in at least one tourney would be ideal for speaking up on what needs changed. Good post though Trev, and I hope your being an EVETV guy might throw GM Nova into action. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.14 23:35:00 - [246] Originally by: Trevedian Have a meeting with well known PVPer's or something and hash these issues out... You know, just sayin', CCP has an EVE Corporation League rules team just sitting around, doing nothing since they cancelled our tournament. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Elvarien Caldari Legion of Corpses Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.07.15 02:48:00 - [247] the problem with podding is that indeed it will discourage a lot of people from using implants ... but who do you think will be forced to stop using em ... the poor small alliances without massive isk back ends ... or the huge map illuminating ones having stations filled with spares. . oh right. Still the new rules are refreshing just a few bits that need polishing. >--- Witty banter.
Zephirz Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2007.07.15 09:37:00 - [248] so lemme get this straight. First tournament: Reward: Wyvern + some other stff. Aprocimate value: 40bil? Second tournament: Reward: Several UNIQUE battleships Aproximate value: 700bill? (two of these BS sold for 120bil each) Third tournament: reward: 18bill isk... And every team has a good chance of losing billions and billions of pirate implants.... Itll be hard to play it even IF you WIN the damn tournament, anyone under 3rd place is likely to lose billions of isk in this tournament... zephirz
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:26:00 - [249] I see Logistics are now more expensive on points. Are you going to be changing Battleships and Command ships cost? "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.15 12:47:00 - [250] Ave. Yes, the logistics have been made slightly more expensive as their impact on the battlefield is on par with recon cruisers. I have just spoken to Sharkbait and the test server will be up and running at 1500 hrs today. You are all invited for a chat there and some tests. In fact I would very much appreciate it if you would show up and do a few test fights with me. I am going to explain a few things regarding the rules and rewards. I am going to test the mass transfer features and discuss the point system with you guys after the test, if you were to honor me with doing some test fights. Get your EVE voice setup on the test server, it should be enabled for all accounts there.

DHB WildCat BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.07.15 14:35:00 - [251] Edited by: DHB WildCat on 15/07/2007 14:38:59 OMG, no offense Nova, but are you new to CCP? Do you honestly think that some "controlled" fights, with rigged up, drug induced, full implant Battleships will show you how to set the points up? Do you think ANYONE will ever use the most useless piece of crap this game has to offer "EVE voice". My alliance is in the tournament in hopes of things changing "rewards" and because SATAN asked me nicely to help. So far this is extremely unorganized. To understand the point system well enough, you NEED to have real pvp experience. I can tell you that for example, a faction Battleship can and will get its ass handed to it by a Tier 3 Battleship. Tier one except for domi, will lose to a battlecruiser. "obviously a snaked out phoon will do well too" There is no difference between a faction frig and a normal one. They both insta pop, unless fast, and then you cant do any damage to them anyways so they are the same thing. A recon ship will kick a HAC's ass anyday, and should be worth more points by a wide margin than a HAC. 2 points isnt enough. Command ships and logistics = turtle tanks but how can you stop that? Well you cant and its something you'll have to deal with. Get someone you trust that plays the game, and does nothing but PVP. Then you will get an idea about point system, and I hope to god they talk sense into you about the terrible rewards. Rules are fine whatever you come up with, no one can dispute rules since it will be equal for everyone. However do not think that for one second your fights on sisi, will be anything like the tourny. No one will show there hand as to what they are bringing, and everything on sisi, is like on steroids. There is NO real, or somewhat real pvp on sisi. Anyhow my views not my corps, and all that bull. So if you hold a grudege get over it, but hold it against me only. WildCat

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.15 15:13:00 - [252] On SiSi, Join channel; Tourney. If you have problems activating the EVE voice, let me know in channel.

FarScape III	Posted - 2007.07.15 16:51:00 - [253] I like the big arena idea, I want to see all ships like the Rokh and others be usefull. Why can't close range ships speed up to the big slow ships like there sapposed to or just give support from were they need to be? Long ranges of the arena won't stop them. I like slow fights I like numbers I like figuring out what happened or what could of happened. I enjoy seeing sjips just figure out what to do next, i love the tention. Not everyone is the same, the most important thing is the fights happen and are close to being what happens in the atual game. A Minmater City... Cool! My Skills
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:20:00 - [254] Nova, one question I never got ask during the session : Who asked for the tournament to be more like "real pvp"? You have noticed the total negative responses in all threads regarding the rules, right? Are you noticing this, or just ignoring it proclaiming yourself as more knowledgable than all of us? Real PvP simply is not as skillful as the kind of articifical PvP that's been in the last 3 tournaments. That's why the top guys show up, because it's the biggest stage of them all, with the biggest prizes. That is no longer the case. It seems this tournament is no longer important to CCP, especially with all the delays that have happened. Seriously, just bite the bullet, admit you were wrong, and completely redo things to more like they were in the last tournament. I admit the corvuses were a bit too much, but the team deserves pretty expensive faction stuff. The alliance behind the team deserves a lot, but the team is still more important, and thus deserves even more stuff. Maybe each member of the team get's a few normal faction battleships? I'm trying to be civil here, but it's difficult. I care so much about the tournament, and that's why i'm doing this, because I think that the direction the tournament is being taken in is not the one people want. EG. this thread here : http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=557104 Tell me how many people in that threadare in favour of the prizes and/or rules? Please, man. Rethink this. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Tulayia	Posted - 2007.07.15 21:47:00 - [255] When do sign ups begin?
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.15 22:02:00 - [256] so much for this tournament being about stratgy and not throwing isk at a problem and winning. the limited prizes + fact you prolly would lose implants if you got killed ment people would of had to be insane to throw 10 implant fitted characters into the match since they would lose there but and would lose money in the tourney. now people can throw 40B in implants into the tourney and if they lsoe its not a big deal since everyone still has there plants.
Ohne Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.15 22:12:00 - [257] Can we be expecting more changes to the point system?
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.16 00:20:00 - [258] I have been told that podding is now disallowed AND if you warp out you no longer get /heal0. Can I get a "WHAT THE ****??"? I mean, seriously, now anyone with a VERY POWERFUL (and according to yourself Nova, totally disproportionate ship) such as... I dont know, a Pair of State ravens or tribal pests, can almost always save them, as well as use full grade implants with impunity. Combined with hafl the teams being knocked out without being on EVEtv, AND crappy prizes... how the hell do you expect anyone except 3-4 mega-rich entities to bother? You're systematically REMOVING any and all incentives to play this tournament. STOP DOING THIS NOVA. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.16 01:52:00 - [259] Originally by: FarScape III Why can't close range ships speed up to the big slow ships like there sapposed to or just give support from were they need to be? Long ranges of the arena won't stop them. Without tactical warping, close-range setups are at a massive disadvantage compared with real PVP. Snipers don't have to be big and slow. I agree that sniping should be a viable option, which needs that the arena needs to be big enough that you can get to a significant range. Perhaps the real solution to this is for those of us who are interested in PVP as a sport (rather than purely as a tool of warfare) to arrange times to beat each other up on the test server. Seems like it would be less expensive and more rewarding. Recruitment FAQ
Tulayia	Posted - 2007.07.16 05:10:00 - [260] Is the 2b entry fee refundable like last tournament?
Electric Cucumber Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.07.16 14:01:00 - [261] Originally by: Tulayia Is the 2b entry fee refundable like last tournament? No but I think you make it back by winning your first 3 matchs cant remember and not bothered checking tbh
Trevedian Amarr KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:36:00 - [262] Edited by: Trevedian on 16/07/2007 15:36:06 Originally by: GM Nova Edited by: GM Nova on 15/07/2007 18:46:19 The next Alliance Tournament is scheduled to be held August 31. 2007. The rules are ready for your feedback and for the most part are final. The tournament will be infused more into the storyline and thus there are things we will not reveal at this time. Best regards, GM Nova Senior Game Master Yay! More Storyline/RP Stuff, just what every one has been asking for (NOT) Perhaps I am being selfish in wanting the Tourney to be visually appealing and excting... Definitive battles are exciting... Fights that go the distance and are scored on points are usually snoozefests where not much happens... Under the current rules imagine facing a team with 10 Blackbirds, or 5 ECM Blackbird & 5 Celestis w/ dampners and how exciting that would be to watch... Coupled with the fact that they have a MUCH LARGER ARENA than in the last tourney... So they can run, turtle tank, and avoid NOS better so as to protract the fights. I want to resolve this and find a solution. I DO NOT want to whine interminably and just be critical. But I have talked with many players in various alliances that are considering not taking part because the rules suck and the prizes are bunk... Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.16 15:43:00 - [263] Originally by: Darpz so much for this tournament being about stratgy and not throwing isk at a problem and winning. the limited prizes + fact you prolly would lose implants if you got killed ment people would of had to be insane to throw 10 implant fitted characters into the match since they would lose there but and would lose money in the tourney. now people can throw 40B in implants into the tourney and if they lsoe its not a big deal since everyone still has there plants. You don't understand, Darpz. Let's say EVERYONE had gotten podkilled, every match, under the old rules. The top-tier alliances would have still fielded full-grade sets; BoB and IAC had already said they would, and I feel confident AXE would have, too. So, podding would have INCREASED the isk-load--to compete at BoB/IAC/AXE's level, you would have had to do the same, which, for those who were curious, works out to 50-100b isk, or more, depending on just how jiggy you get with the high-grades and the COSMOS. With these rules, it's now a one-time 2b-a-pilot investment, or half a bil for low-grades. If your alliance can't afford that, there's no way it could have afforded that same "implant fee" for EVERY MATCH! This is a significant improvement in the ability for less-well-funded alliances to participate at the same level as the "big boys". Were it not for the pitiful prizes, I would have been well-advised not to speak out against the old rule at all, since it would have given AXE a huge advantage over our average opponent before they ever even undocked. But I fought for this change for you, and all the other smaller alliances, so exercise a little reflection, show a little gratitude, and grant me the benefit of an assumption of a good-faith desire to help the tournament before you blast me for wanting to save you isk and keep you competitive at the top tiers of the tournament. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.07.16 17:02:00 - [264] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Darpz so much for this tournament being about stratgy and not throwing isk at a problem and winning. the limited prizes + fact you prolly would lose implants if you got killed ment people would of had to be insane to throw 10 implant fitted characters into the match since they would lose there but and would lose money in the tourney. now people can throw 40B in implants into the tourney and if they lsoe its not a big deal since everyone still has there plants. You don't understand, Darpz. Let's say EVERYONE had gotten podkilled, every match, under the old rules. The top-tier alliances would have still fielded full-grade sets; BoB and IAC had already said they would, and I feel confident AXE would have, too. So, podding would have INCREASED the isk-load--to compete at BoB/IAC/AXE's level, you would have had to do the same, which, for those who were curious, works out to 50-100b isk, or more, depending on just how jiggy you get with the high-grades and the COSMOS. With these rules, it's now a one-time 2b-a-pilot investment, or half a bil for low-grades. If your alliance can't afford that, there's no way it could have afforded that same "implant fee" for EVERY MATCH! This is a significant improvement in the ability for less-well-funded alliances to participate at the same level as the "big boys". Were it not for the pitiful prizes, I would have been well-advised not to speak out against the old rule at all, since it would have given AXE a huge advantage over our average opponent before they ever even undocked. But I fought for this change for you, and all the other smaller alliances, so exercise a little reflection, show a little gratitude, and grant me the benefit of an assumption of a good-faith desire to help the tournament before you blast me for wanting to save you isk and keep you competitive at the top tiers of the tournament. --P Honestly, I read this and my brain translates: 'Why the heck isn't the tournament implant free!?!?' That is the way to make the whole implant issue non-existent. Yes certain implant sets are actually fun/useful to watch, but seriously, I'm not waiting for the odd command ship helping a BS do a turtle for 15 mins.. which is made pretty damned possible with a few implant sets to boost the old gang mods/tanks.. But hey I'm just watching (probably, if I can get onto the server), who cares what we say. :( All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.16 21:31:00 - [265] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Darpz so much for this tournament being about stratgy and not throwing isk at a problem and winning. the limited prizes + fact you prolly would lose implants if you got killed ment people would of had to be insane to throw 10 implant fitted characters into the match since they would lose there but and would lose money in the tourney. now people can throw 40B in implants into the tourney and if they lsoe its not a big deal since everyone still has there plants. You don't understand, Darpz. Let's say EVERYONE had gotten podkilled, every match, under the old rules. The top-tier alliances would have still fielded full-grade sets; BoB and IAC had already said they would, and I feel confident AXE would have, too. So, podding would have INCREASED the isk-load--to compete at BoB/IAC/AXE's level, you would have had to do the same, which, for those who were curious, works out to 50-100b isk, or more, depending on just how jiggy you get with the high-grades and the COSMOS. With these rules, it's now a one-time 2b-a-pilot investment, or half a bil for low-grades. If your alliance can't afford that, there's no way it could have afforded that same "implant fee" for EVERY MATCH! This is a significant improvement in the ability for less-well-funded alliances to participate at the same level as the "big boys". Were it not for the pitiful prizes, I would have been well-advised not to speak out against the old rule at all, since it would have given AXE a huge advantage over our average opponent before they ever even undocked. But I fought for this change for you, and all the other smaller alliances, so exercise a little reflection, show a little gratitude, and grant me the benefit of an assumption of a good-faith desire to help the tournament before you blast me for wanting to save you isk and keep you competitive at the top tiers of the tournament. --P lol your saying you would of outfited your team of 10 with full HG sets worth more than the total prize. the ONLY way you would make a profit on the tourney then is if you would of won. if you lost at any point you would easily of been out 20-30B in implants + ships. I had no problem with people fielding implants in sucha situation since they are putting the isk on the line. if the prizes were like last tourney then yeah it would make sence to implant up, but when the prize is 20B at the top it ain't worth it, since your prolly going to lose and if you do win the chances of you getting thru all th rounds without 3-4 poddings is slim at best. which forces people to use better tactics instead of better implants
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.16 22:14:00 - [266] Originally by: Darpz lol your saying you would of outfited your team of 10 with full HG sets worth more than the total prize. the ONLY way you would make a profit on the tourney then is if you would of won. Yes, I would have, and no, we wouldn't have made a profit, even if we won. 2b of implants x 10 team members = 20b, and that's assuming our lineup never shuffled around at all, and that nobody got podded. As for the rest, read this, as I might have explained it better there, and I'm sure the people reading this thread don't want to hear me rehash my views yet again. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Derek 14	Posted - 2007.07.17 01:58:00 - [267] Originally by: GM Nova The following issues need to be addressed and I will do so now. - Rigs have been introduced properly and balanced since last years tournament, why are they still not allowed? Rigs allow ships to excel in certain ways, most notably tanking. We fear that rigs will drag the fights on unnecessarily. hmmm, i'm pretty newb but can someone explain why rigs are not allowed but implants are? what does CCP think implants are going to be used for? not to mention that rigs are more for affordable. wouldn't it make more sense to allow rigs and not implants
Sebesto Minmatar Destination Unknown	Posted - 2007.07.17 02:32:00 - [268] Originally by: ookke [ECM (mainly modules) and remote repair drones have never been a good idea for the tournaments, they slow down everything and make it boring and messy to watch. Correction... They make it extremely boring to watch. Fights will be which scorp or falcon can jam the other scorp or falcon first and if there is no jammers used by either team, it will depend on who pops all the remote rep bots first. So in the end, extremely boring.
Bladen'Kerst	Posted - 2007.07.17 04:05:00 - [269] Edited by: Bladen''Kerst on 17/07/2007 04:06:20 All this talk about losing implants is confusing. When I read rule #9 I read it as saying if you accidentally pod someone then 1. You receive no penalty. 2. The player who got podded gets fully reimbursed. Does anyone else read it this way??
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.17 04:43:00 - [270] Originally by: Bladen'Kerst Edited by: Bladen''Kerst on 17/07/2007 04:06:20 All this talk about losing implants is confusing. When I read rule #9 I read it as saying if you accidentally pod someone then 1. You receive no penalty. 2. The player who got podded gets fully reimbursed. Does anyone else read it this way?? That's correct. The rules have changed since this thread was originally made; the fist post, as originally written, said that podding was allowed, and that implants would not be reimbursed. Nova has changed it. That's why the discussion on the matter suddenly switches direction a page or so ago. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.17 09:33:00 - [271] How about a wholesale return to the previous rules? You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
sweetheart Black Reign FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 09:34:00 - [272] Edited by: sweetheart on 17/07/2007 09:34:04 I never bothered to read the previous pages , ... But I think this years prizes should be maybee 1 Titan and some MoM's .. No idea how many have already said that .. But supercaps fot the winners imo With the old rules .............................................. To Win is Everything
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.17 11:14:00 - [273] if a player dies and a secure container pops out of his cargo does that count? if it has a password ?
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:19:00 - [274] Originally by: Ifni How about a wholesale return to the previous rules? Previous rules as in 1) Rules that were posted in the first edition of this thread? 2) Rules from the third alliance tournament in november? 3) Uber rules with pirate implants OUT, rigs IN, and warping out causes your ship to explode? Cos I'm all for a little of columns 2 and 3 :) Column 1 was just "allowing podding" as a difference, which I am "meh" about, but I feel VERY strongly about allowing people to warp out and save their ship, its not in the spirit of the tournament and doesnt look fun for the audience. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Iva Soreass FireStar Inc FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.17 12:36:00 - [275] Isk rewards , seems they are going down the mission route making it just BOREING and hardley worth doing//entering. Sorry im cba to read 10 pages but has it been said why the rewards are to be quite frank "***" this year and not giving the nice uber faction ships to winners//runners up?. I was violated by BackDoor Bandit :( www.firestar-online.com
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.07.17 13:20:00 - [276] also, how about modules whos meta group is "storyline"? i dont know if they have better stats actually, but i dont see them mentioned also the tech 2 industrial points question is a real one and i do want to know the answer
nickycakes Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.17 14:47:00 - [277] The situation here is going to have to improve quite a bit if you peeps at CCP expect anyone to dump money into your eve-tv feed. And yes, I know there will be a free feed, which will likely lag/crash frequently/not work alltogether, in order to get people to pay for your premium yet almost as crappy feed. Can we get someone with some actual experience running the show here? ---
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.17 15:50:00 - [278] Originally by: sweetheart Edited by: sweetheart on 17/07/2007 09:34:04 I never bothered to read the previous pages , ... But I think this years prizes should be maybee 1 Titan and some MoM's .. No idea how many have already said that .. But supercaps fot the winners imo With the old rules Not going to happen. The level of value associated with the last tournament (ie 6 ships @ 75b a piece) was so high that it could singlehandedly buy a handfull of titans. They don't want the prizes to directly affect the player driven political landscape to such a degree, and I agree with them, even though I <3 faction and pimp ships. Originally by: El Yatta Originally by: Ifni How about a wholesale return to the previous rules? Previous rules as in 1) Rules that were posted in the first edition of this thread? 2) Rules from the third alliance tournament in november? 3) Uber rules with pirate implants OUT, rigs IN, and warping out causes your ship to explode? Cos I'm all for a little of columns 2 and 3 :) Column 1 was just "allowing podding" as a difference, which I am "meh" about, but I feel VERY strongly about allowing people to warp out and save their ship, its not in the spirit of the tournament and doesnt look fun for the audience. The rules from the last tournament. Sure there was alot of dampening so maybe some revision to the rules, but for the most part they were spot on. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.17 17:36:00 - [279] Listen to Ifni guys :\ Just modify old rules a little bit and go back to that instead, Allow t1 rigs, maybe limit damps per ship? Whatever, do something. Prizes last time were kinda lame tho, LeMonde did a good job with what he had to work with, but it was still kinda lame. I'd like to see a lot more work put into making interesting prizes. Fourth tournament has been grievously managed, rules and prizes are horrible and overall it's rather depressing how low a priority this seems to be for CCP. http://eve.klaki.net/
5n4keyes Sacred Templars DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.07.17 18:30:00 - [280] Edited by: 5n4keyes on 17/07/2007 18:30:33 Ive wanted since the last tourny to be in the 4th tourny... ask anyone in alliance or anyone ive spoken to! But ive really over the last week began doubting if its worth entering! Yet a month ago i had the isk ready to go, and was waiting on how to signup! Seriously, 10 pages of valid comments, and ideas for improvement, yet... not much changing, we cant all be wrong? Tho what alot of people do have to remember is the reason for the tourny, its not for a brand new shiny ship, or some uber rare thing you can sell onto some guy to loose in the next tourny, but purely for the fun factor!
Trevedian Amarr KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.07.17 19:35:00 - [281] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Listen to Ifni guys :\ Just modify old rules a little bit and go back to that instead, Allow t1 rigs, maybe limit damps per ship? Whatever, do something. Prizes last time were kinda lame tho, LeMonde did a good job with what he had to work with, but it was still kinda lame. I'd like to see a lot more work put into making interesting prizes. Fourth tournament has been grievously managed, rules and prizes are horrible and overall it's rather depressing how low a priority this seems to be for CCP. I can't believe I'm agreeing with Tyrrax... The rules from the last tourney would make for ALOT more exciting fights... Is a 18Bil Grand Prize the best thing you can come up with? Instead of being cool, what kind of Trophy is that? That is a drop in the bucket... Are 6 Unique BS's so game altering that CCP can only give away rubbish now? They may have sold for alot, but thats what the market demanded... In the end they are just Battleships with a few more HP's.... Wasn't it a rush to see Tyrrax's Impoc explode? As it stands people are not excited about the tourney... I want 32 teams to participate, as things stand presently, I don't see even that goal being reached. Last tourney teams had trouble fielding 5 pilots... I wonder if the team is expecting 10 pilots.... Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.17 19:46:00 - [282] I know we're going to struggle to get 10 pilots competing... I heard Cruel Intentions withdrew from the tournament. I don't expect them to be the last. Ifni/Trev have you guys had a private word with Nova? We need well known people like yourselves to hopefully try and talk sense into Nova. I love this tournament and I want it to be a sucess, but I just have no passion for it at the moment, and we'll be very lucky to get enough teams to compete. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
MrBadidea Caldari Definition of the End	Posted - 2007.07.17 19:54:00 - [283] I was going to form an Alliance to participate in this tournament. I have the funding, and I know some peoples who would happily come along for the ride; if we won or not, it would have been seriously awesome for us to try it anyway. However, all I've seen thus far has been a series of comical errors... 1. Increasing the size of the Arena, without allowing slingshot warps. This alone would have been most awesome. When I've watched the last couple of Tournaments on EVETV the image quality has been too crap to see what was going on with the health bars anyway, and they always annoyed me. What I WANT to see is a bunch of guys pulling seriously heavy hit'n'run tactics on the other team, which is pulling an ecm-turle whilst running around at maximum speed in an attempt to last long enough to not lose. 2. The Prizes. OK, giving away prizes capable of seriously impacting the politics that goes on between the 0.0 dewlling Alliances in EVE once again is wrong. However, it's too late to not do that again; you've already set the standard for what prizes should be, and now dropping them down to a level where even the winning team just barely walks away with making anything at all from the tournament... 3. This whole factional allignment crap. What does it bring to the table bar reducing the entry costs? If we're going to get anything out of it/cost anything else, you'd better step up and decide just what it's going to mean to those participating. The fights are only a few weeks away now, and people are going to need time to get their money and their ships together ready to go, so you'd better be making the rules final, and fast. 4. Boosters. They cost nothing. Nip to jita, you can pick up standards for 10m a pop. I fail to understand why you would allow pirate implants (even IF losing them is reimburseable), yet dissallow 10m worth of boosters every fight. If you can afford the entry fee, and the ships, an extra 10m per pilot per fight is nothing. I find it reprehensable that you can turn around and tell us that 18b is pretty much the cost of a Mothership. Yeah, ok, if your alliance is already that big that it already build motherships, AND has the infrastructure in place to do so, yeah you could get away with saying that. To most of us though, we're looking at: 11-14b of Minerals 4-5b for a Tower + Capital Construction gear 16b if we buy the BPO for the Mothership, 4-6b if we try and find a BPC Probably around 12-14b if we buy all the capital component BPOs, 2-3b if we use BPCs Plus fuel. Plus freighters to move the components to the Tower once the components are build. Plus the ships lost to (likely) defend said tower. Plus the possibility the tower will be lost before the mothership is out of the oven. If you want to give away a mothership, just do it. Motherships are that common these days that giving even a handful of them away would most likely do little to change the political landscape out in 0.0 at all, especially considering most of them are now going to be kept away from the front lines, and will most likely be turning up in lowsec more than they do in 0.0. I'm siding with giving away a nicely (but not top-notch) mothership. I'm not talking Wyvern with Estamel hardeners here, but definately decent officer gear. It still wouldn't hold a candle to the ISK given away during the last tournament, but to any team outside of the big 3-4, that is a significantly large prize to warrant entry, without changing the political landscape much, if at all. I would, however, much rather see Unique ships as the prizes, but without using existing ships you can't accurately judge just how much cash you're giving away before they are in the hands of the winners, and the Auction threads are up :P (PS. Give me a Corvus for being awesome plx!) --- Your Corporation Management Skills hit Lore Isander, Wrecking for Stolen Hulk BPO.
Pattern Clarc Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2007.07.17 23:28:00 - [284] New unquie faction stuff or bust!! Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.17 23:53:00 - [285] Okay, I'm going to try to wrap this all up in one fell swoop. Boosters: Keep them banned. The upshot of allowing boosters would be that a competitive team would have, for instance, five Hyperion pilots, and whoever gets the fewest side effects from the Exile booster they pop 5 minutes before the fight is the one that would fight in that match. In other words, allowing boosters would really screw over smaller alliances, and disproportionately help large alliances with large numbers of high-SP characters. Rigs: Allow T1. Disallow T2. T2 rigs have not yet found their place within standard PvP, and are just as (frighteningly!) expensive to put on a T1 frigate as to put on a faction BS. T1 rigs, on the other hand, are a standard part of pretty much every ship build from T1 BC on up, and on all T2 ships. Prizes: Imagine, for a moment, that this tournament gave out 100 Corvus/Storms. Each would now be worth a couple billion, perhaps, and BoB's old "700b isk top prize" would now be worth around the same amount of isk as we're talking about giving away as first prize for this tournament. Not giving out more of these ships is a direct boost to BoB's walllet, who you already said you regret giving so much isk to. Podding: Allowing podding: a) does nothing. Barring lag, a dictor bubble, or a stupid pilot, you cannot stop a pod from warping. Period. I will merrily ignore your anecdotal evidence to the contrary, and will be happy to demonstrate my position on this matter on Sisi any time you'd like. b) if it did do something, increases by a factor of 10 the amount of isk alliances have to spend on implants. You've RAISED the isk bar, not lowered it. Nobody who's serious about the tournament will NOT be buying full sets for every match, even if it means losing isk even if they win. The solution, as currently laid out in Nova's OP, is perfect. Let's move on. COSMOS: Originally by: mazzilliu also, how about modules whos meta group is "storyline"? Those are COSMOS, and are currently banned. I strongly disagree with this; if I want to pay 100m for a T2 gun that can't use T2 ammo, I don't see why I can't. But I have stopped caring to a certain degree about this particular issue; there are much bigger fish to try in the tournament format as it currently stands. Arena Size: A little too large. 250km radius = 500km diameter = frickin' huge; unless the "lock camera" is at the dead center of the arena, they won't even be able to lock the combatants from one end of the arena to the other. Broadcast Format: Jalipo sucks. Moving on from that, though, at the very least, get us a compression format that allows us to see the health bars clearly, since those tell the story of the fight. Worst-case scenario, get the devs to program you up a client with larger health bars. They're already doing a custom one to allow you to lock 20 targets, right? Faction Sponsorship: AXE has signed up with a pretty-much-arbitrarily-chosen sponsoring faction, because we saw no need to pay 2b isk when we could get away with paying half of that. I have no idea if this has been a good choice, a doesn't-really-matter choice, or a decision on the basis of which we'll magically suddenly find all of our members KOS in Minmatar space. Lack of Responsiveness: Completely unacceptable. You're doing the same thing to this tournament that you did to the ECL tournament, and while it's languishing in limbo, everyone's scrambling to get ships, equipment, and isk together, and days off of work, and so forth, only to have the date changed at least twice now. You've got a pre-existing, CCP-selected ECL rules team ready to take over this whole shebang. You have my email address, I'm just waiting for the signal that we can re-form the team and put out a competent, responsive alliance tournament for everyone involved. Even if it means I can't participate. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.18 00:34:00 - [286] Good post Pilk. Hopefully Nova is reading. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.18 03:15:00 - [287] Originally by: QwaarJet Good post Pilk. Hopefully Nova is reading. Probably not, no problem exists if you don't read it, right? sighs Let me put it this way - the prizes suck and are uninspiring, the rules suck and are too conservative on poddings and /heal0; it was starting out so promising. The fourth alliance tourney is becoming another tribute of the GMs and devs' abilities to screw up things, a trend that's sadly getting even more prevalent lately. I mean, this had everything going for it, good hosts, a flexible and dynamic set of rules, the ability for everything an opponent brings to the table to be at risk (ships, pods, everything). Now, all that remains is interesting commentary, I hope the rest of them feel like Trevidian and we might get Nova to actually listen to us, the people that are going to be competing in it. Oh, and on the point that because of no podding, everyone can afford the pirate implants, I'll point to my team. I'm damn sure that 99% of our people cannot afford them - so, how much is ISK going to affect the tournament? Is it going to be skill based, where the best pilots will prevail, or ISK based, where the richest teams do the best? If the latter, I can already predict BoB, MC, RA, and IAC will likely be moving to the late elimination stages if not the finals, because they're the ones that can afford to blow that kind of money whereas we can't, and neither can many groups in this competition. A balance needs to be struck, one that's sorely lacking. Looking for a relaxed ingame RP channel to join? La Maison De Tous Les Plaisirs
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.18 04:14:00 - [288] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Oh, and on the point that because of no podding, everyone can afford the pirate implants, I'll point to my team. I'm damn sure that 99% of our people cannot afford them - so, how much is ISK going to affect the tournament? Is it going to be skill based, where the best pilots will prevail, or ISK based, where the richest teams do the best? If the latter, I can already predict BoB, MC, RA, and IAC will likely be moving to the late elimination stages if not the finals, because they're the ones that can afford to blow that kind of money whereas we can't, and neither can many groups in this competition. A balance needs to be struck, one that's sorely lacking. Fair enough, but it's at least realistic that some of you might grab low-grade sets or something. Back when you could be podded on a whim, surely a team with your lack of financial werewithal would have gone without implants completely, thus putting you at a further disadvantage? For better or worse, implants (and faction BS) are woven into the fabric of this tournament for many people. Keeping them from becoming THE defining element (as they would be if only those willing to lose isk to win the tournament could field them) is a laudable goal. Meanwhile, I hope I've made it clear that allowing podding would only have made the problem much, much worse. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
MrMajIc VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.18 06:34:00 - [289] Well, kick a camel...the year I wanted to do this CCP gimps on the news and guides to allow people to form up a team. Now If i personally invest a fancy ship, implants etc. to win 18b split up I will seriously choke someone. not to beat a old dog here, but why stop now with the rare or hard to aquire ships like MoM's, corvus issues etc. If i was that IAC dude I'd kick you in the rear ccp for the basic SCREWING you gave him for making last years tourny one to remember. how do you expect to sell anything when you cannot organize this...Really whats so FREAKING HARD. ...Or is it you are affraid if bob wins again the e-whine will pop the ole eardrums?
Peoke Caldari Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.18 06:37:00 - [290] I know most people dont care but is thier a way to even move the fights a little later and weekends to help all the us and other time zone players and alliances who get screwed with such crap start time. rl does get in the way and 1700 eve time starts dont even cut it for half of eve.
Hohne Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.18 07:10:00 - [291] What I really liked about the last tournament was that for me it started at midnight and finished @ 8am... lots of fun. Especially the part where the 'Sunday' matches ended 8am on a workday. No but really pirate implants but no Rigs? Here's how I see it. Entry fee should be say 1bn, maybe more. Gets refunded if you show up to all matches. Prize = something without value. Or at least, something that can't affect non tournament outcomes. You can already tell CCP want this because after giving a few major prizes to BoB, with an ingame value that can singlehandedly give them the isk most alliances will never hope to achieve, and then win the next one just on the basis of the isk from the previous prize. This should be about honour and respect. NOT the prize. In the same we should be seeing modules you see in PvP every day. That includes rigs, but not pirate implants. Allow podding, but make the value of the pod something people can live with losing. It's completely the wrong direction to disallow podding. Faction gear, people die, they lose, and can even be an incentive for people to enter just so they can loot the other guy. Implants, if you can afford, it's a bought advantage. If you can't you can't even loot them should you win anyway. I really can't understand not allowing T1 rigs? Is there any reason for this? It seems far less logical than allowing pirate implants.
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2007.07.18 11:25:00 - [292] I gotta agree with Cruel Intentions on this. Ppl should not enter this tourny at all before a lot of the rules have been changed
Karitsa MASS	Posted - 2007.07.18 11:40:00 - [293] I personally liked the a priori rules and the current rules as long as they same to all, and also agree to some degree that the prices given by lemonde where rather too expensive and too simple to change owner. But the isk prices given are then just a hardly the cost if any able bodied corp really puts up the effort and likes to win it even ofc specially for a merc corp winning might mean winning and people loving the game, extreme gaming in the tournie might bring the rush back in like when first time shooting some zombie or moo in rifter in 0.0. So I have some ideas about the prizes I would like to share: 1. A station in Jita, value "huge", stays there for ever, can be war decced and shot by anyparty ( sov cn etc. ), but brings fleet fights closer to where half the partitions are serving the ebil jita people and station would have the pictures beside it in flags ( like billboard ) of the finals winning team members decorated with gold and the sound in it would tell the story ( even all of us have sound off ). 2. Monument to home system a huge statue made from omber which would have 8 sentries to guard it, which would aggress those hostile to the winning alliance. It could be mined of omber worth huge roid but it would regenerate faster. 3. When the fps station walking is in free beers in certain pvp related cantinas for ever and little *ish leather vests with "I pwn" in back for the winning team members. And free parking space. 4. Place in tournie pvpers hall of fame, which would be visible in somewhere in space. 5. Transformation in to jove character but would only be able to live in jove space ( so basically each year few dudes would get in there only through the tournie ). As a sidekick they couldnt come back with given char. 6. Unique ships but not as uber mods but with just visuals meaning for each final team member own texture added to the stuff files, which the client would render , like new texture and name and description exempli gratia "Karitsa's Caldari Navy Raven" "This majestetic space vessel is piloted by one of the alliance tournament champions. The magic in it is in the pilot" -> and ship would hold pilots name and winnign alliance logo in the texture beside***pit. So it would be totally normal and repainted in trade, rendered to clients only if the client him or others see the same char in the given ship. 7. Faction leadership, if would reprent true power, could set the standings for em well maybe too much, but if fighting in area where sov is it, the local faction npc would fight beside, lol =) 8. Auction where before each round first from wide set, then to smaller, the participants could vote for final price, up until last rounds where from final pair and bronze winner ( 3 together ) could vote for final prices from last 2 options. ( Democrazy for the weak ) 9. Isk price as function of losses before finals. You would have to maxize the losses, and still get to the finals to win a load so if before finals you would have lost market price 7.4 billion, the price would be 5 times that number. So it would be reimbursement for winners and possibly bias the tournie to more funky blast fest. IT first sounds silly but as those able to win with no losses are uber enough to just be recognised due the honoris causa and fame, only those who would have bled would be truely satisfied =) ( kamikaze spirit would finally pay off ) 10. 10 Faction large posses and unique outpoust, set up anyhere in not sov space and onlined, even 2 jumps from NOL, even would be conguered, would still have the unique monument kind of shape and story in the speakers. etc. If needed I can provide unlimited amount more of these, currently at work and most superiors in summer holidays so it took 7 minutes to invent these "interesting" options =) and can spam more to bring depth in the discussion of options in the context of the tournie and possibly awards.

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