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Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:34:00 - [1] The Siege & Capture of Unity Station This is an OOC report on the siege and capture of Unity Station in 9UY, Providence. It is quite long and the first section is basically an introduction setting the scene in Providence and the events/reasoning which lead up to the eventual attack on 9UY. Background The Beginnings - Operation Deliverance and expansion into Providence As many of you are aware the Curatores Veritatis Alliance (CVA) has had a long held ambition to extend the boundaries of the Amarr Empire. In November 2004 we officially launched 'Operation Deliverance'. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=121887 At first the scale of Operation Deliverance was relatively small reflecting the limited size of our alliance. Our ambitions were focused on securing low-sec Amarrian space on the borders of Providence (which was at the time overrun by a variety of evil pirates) and to extend law and order into Providence itself - with the eventual goal of having Providence recognised as part of the Amarr Empire. Initially, our size limited our capabilities, neverthless we gradually turned the Deliverance area from a pirate infested backwater into an economically thriving and busy region populated by many neutrals taking advantage of our anti-pirate stance (and making many enemies in the process). The following two threads give some idea of how 'Operation Deliverance' progressed over time: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=336624 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=386053 Despite various 'invasions' (which varied in annoyance from 'minimal' to 'complete pain in the arse') the CVA persisted with its objectives. As we grew and expanded our capabilities we naturally expanded further into 'Amarrian Providence' constructing two Outposts as part of this process. The Minmatars move to Providence Shortly after we launched operation Deliverance our perpetual enemies the Minmatar terrorist Ushra'khan (UK) alliance also moved in to Providence (albeit not right next door to us) and started building their own 'terrorist' Empire. Like us the Minmatars faced regular pirate invasions and of course we also did what we could to welcome them to the neighbourhood. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:35:00 - [2] Under the influence Gradually both CVA and Ushra'khan had relatively 'pacified' their respective parts of Providence. I will never say 'fully pacified' as it is never possible to provide 100% security in 0.0) and many neutral individuals, corps and alliances migrated to the region. Some of these settled in the CVA sphere of influence (e.g. Huzzah and then Novus Ordos Seclorum) whilst others (eg. Brotherhood of Steel / Imperial Order) were more influenced by the Minnies. These new neighbours and indeed many of the other neutral parties who came to Providence worked together vs pirates with either with CVA or UK and as a result developed strong bonds to the point where they also began to see either UK or CVA as enemies depending on which alliance they tended to work with vs pirates - as a result many non-RPers were gradually sucked into our traditional RP war. The first great siege of 9UY Anyway whilst CVA was expanding so was Ushra'khan. They constructed their first station named 'Unity' in 9UY. As many of you will remember 'Unity' eventually came under attack by a huge pirate coalition including Veto and The Establishment. This was the 'first great siege of 9UY'. From our perspective we did not want the station in the hands of pirates as our eventual goal was to capture it ourselves. As a result we ceased our usual raids on the Minmatars and instead launched attacks on the pirate logistics in the low-sec Minmatar/Ammatar area bordering Ushra'khan space. At the time were accused of hypocrisy for 'assisting our enemies' but in our view we were working for our own Amarrian cause. The Minmatars put up a heroic resistance against the huge pirate coalition and eventually with the help of ISS (who owned the neighbouring QR Outpost) and the Mercenary Coalition the siege was broken and 9UY remained in terrorist hands - free for us to capture at a later date. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Sean Dillon Caldari Naughty 40	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:37:00 - [3] Edited by: Sean Dillon on 06/06/2007 16:37:06 Nice reading. I have always found the Providence war to be quiet amusing.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:37:00 - [4] The ongoing war and the IAC/ISS squabbles With the pirate threat (at least temporarily abated) the CVA and Ushra'khan got back to what they loved best - shooting each other. However, the usual flow of things in Providence began to be influenced by affairs in the rest of the universe. The CVA had a long standing friendly relationship with Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate (IAC) which predated either alliance getting involved in 0.0. IAC had settled in an area of CATCH close to both CVA and UK holdings in Providence. In roughly the same area, the Interstellar Starbase Syndicate (ISS) had also established a number of 'neutral' trading Outposts. Previously, the CVA had had a run in with ISS when they had tried to erect an Outpost in a system claimed by the CVA and indeed CVA had war decced ISS despite being threatened by MC. While that incident had eventually been sorted out diplomatically it did mean that there was little love for ISS within the CVA. Around this time an IAC Outpost came under an apparently unprovoked and heavy attack involving the Mercenary Coalition and others. The CVA had previously arranged a 'mutual defence agreement' with IAC and sent assistance to IAC. IAC with assistance from Axiom Empire and CVA successfully dissuaded the attackers and the IAC Outpost was saved. CVA forces returned home. Shortly after IAC declared war on ISS for a variety of reasons including the belief that ISS had secretly instigated the attack on the IAC Outpost and because MC and others had used the neighbouring ISS Outpost as a base for the attack. The CVA - neutral to ISS - opted to stay out of this war as it had been instigated by IAC and ISS were still neutral to us. ISS brought in Mercenary Coalition and Loktra Volterra which turned the tables on IAC and then Ushra'khan (who owed a debt to ISS for helping out in the first 9UY siege) also sent ships to join the IAC gangbang. The CVA had already decided to not get involved in this war but the fact that our terrorist enemies had joined the attack on an old friend meant that we felt an obligation to assist IAC even if we were not going to get directly involved in the IAC/ISS war 8P9 - The distraction By now both the CVA and Ushra'khan had expanded to such an extent that there were places were our borders and sovereignty claims had started to brush up against each other. 8P9 was one such border system. We decided that it was the perfect time to put some pressure on Ushra'khan and indirectly relieve some pressure on IAC. In addition the Ushra'khan had recent attacked and taken down an Amarrian battlestation as part of an RP event so our RP allies in PIE, VV and AM were also eager to get some revenge on the terrorists and joined in. Initially, the attack on 8P9 went well and indeed it did force Ushra'khan to pull forces from the IAC front. This led to 'The Enslaver' of the then still powerful Loktra Volterra alliance telling CVA to basically back off or die. He was given a suitably Amarrian response :P However, the CVA operation in 8P9 had been rapidly put together and we did not have at that stage the experience of siege warfare that the Minnies had - nor any real understanding of the numbers, time and commitment needed to successfully take a system. As a result the Minmatars successfully beat off our attack, retaining sovereignty in the system, destroying a CVA tower and basically forcing us to back off. The Minmatars had won an out and out victory. Elsewhere IAC with the support of AAA and Goons had once again survived, sounding the death knell for ISS and marking the opening stages of the larger galactic conflict vs BoB... ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:39:00 - [5] The lull after the storm The failed attack on 8P9 seriously underminded CVA confidence in our abilities to conduct siege warfare. We had always had plans to take 9UY from the Minmatars but after 8P9 we suddenly realised how difficult that was going to be. This experience put a serious spoke in our offensive plans - although it did provide some useful learning experiences that we would utilise later. The CVA returned to business as normal with regular raids on Minnie space but also our usual anti-pirate activities throughout Providence and and low-sec Amarrian and Ammatar space. We have always had plenty of enemies to fight as Providence seems to be a magnet for raiders from the major 0.0 alliance and PvP corps wanting to test themselves against us and Kheram/Yong also seems to attract wannabe pirate corps, trying to make a name for themselves. Indeed we faced an extremely trying invasion of R3 from SAS, Northstar Networks and The Corporation during this period which really scored highly on the 'pain in the arse' scale :wink: Increased terrorist activity and the attack on QBL Over the next few months Ushra'khan gradually increased their activity stepping up attacks (in conjunction with Imperial Order (IO)) on CVA space particularly during our lower activity periods and these became increasingly irritating as we couldn't always chase them away as rapidly as we would like in our non peak hours. In addition, UK had started attacking our friends in Novus Ordos Seclorum (NOS) quite successfully. The CVA concentrated on taking Imperial Order out of the picture and started harassing them in their homelands in low-sec Ammatar space with a view to making them renounce NBSI in Providence and stop them working with Ushra'khan. This campaign was going very well and IO activity was starting to drop when UK launched a full scale offensive on the strategic NOS system of QBL. The details of the attack and its outcome are given here (a UK report): http://users.utu.fi/sipesa/eve/index.php?a=topic&threadID=486928 The whole experience in QBL revitalised the CVA as we actually realised that we could be successful at POS warfare and it provided us with some valuable experience and learning. If the Minmatars had not given us this opportunity I sincerely doubt I would be writing this today. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:41:00 - [6] The QR campaign As detailed above the IAC/ISS war had gone poorly for ISS - as a result they decided to sell off a number of their Outposts and Ushra'khan purchased the QR station in Providence from them. They had called it Karishal's Defiance as per the following news item http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1382&tid=3 which was like waving a red flag in front of a bull, particularly as our scouts reported the system defences were weak. With our new found POS warfare experience and confidence and with the backing of our Amarrian allies in PIE, Vigilia Valeria, Delictum, Aegis Militia and s3verance - an anti pirate group with who we had worked for some time vs pirates in low sec Amarrian space - we decided to attack and started putting in place the necessary plans and logistics for the assault (whilst continuing to batter Imperial Order). I will not go into great detail on the QR siege as that has been covered previously here http://users.utu.fi/sipesa/eve/index.php?a=topic&threadID=491171 but needless to say we successfuly took the station off the Minmatar terrorists after a huge struggle. Fortunately for us, it emerged afterwards that we had caught the Minnies at a particularly bad moment (leadership away/forums down/voicecomms malfunctioning etc.) which gave us enough of a foothold to secure the system and Outpost for Amarr and it was duly renamed 'Karishal's Folly'. Imperial Order, Star Fraction & 9UY With the successful completion of the QR siege CVA once again turned up the heat on Imperial Order who eventually agreed to CVA terms to cease NBSI in Providence and stop providing assistance to the Ushra'khan terrorists. Meanwhile the Star Fraction alliance, who had unsuccessfully assisted the Minmatars in QR, had stepped up its war of words with our non-CVA Amarrian friends, which eventually resulted in some Empire skirmishing which the CVA played a small part in. While the Star Fraction campaign may have been making the headlines, behind the scenes both CVA and friends were already planning the assault on 9UY which would finally remove the terrorist Minnies from Holy Amarrian Providence. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:47:00 - [7] Why 9UY ? It has always been our intent to create an 'Amarrian Providence' - an extension of the Amarrian Empire in 0.0, a relatively secure area giving people access to 'safeish' 0.0 without major obligations. That does not mean a Providence in which only CVA or Amarrians live - we already coexist quite peaceably with several other alliances in the region (who are independent, do not pay rent and whose only requirement is to operate an NRDS policy in line with the CVA's own). We have ALWAYS intended to push the Minmatars out of Providence ever since they first moved here and their leadership has been aware of this IC and OOC. The terrorist presence in Providence is anathmea to what we are trying to build in the region and in RP terms it is simply not realistic for us to 'coexist' peacefully in some kind of cosy RP dream world with the terrorists as neighbours. While some people have always assumed that CVA and UK have had some kind of hidden RP agreement with each other, in reality the only agreement had been a general gentleman's agreement to avoid the use of alts and spies and to avoid the usual smack and disrespect that plagues many EVE wars. CVA and UK sitting on our respective sides of Providence fighting a 'phoney war' is not good for either of us or realistic RP. EVE is about building (or in our case extending) empires and that applies just as much, if not more, to RP alliances. Yes the Minmatars are good enemies. They ALWAYS put up a damn good fight. Yes raiding 9UY was an interesting diversion from the run-of-the-mill anti-pirate activities and yes I am sure we will miss that. However, I seriously doubt that this setback is the end of the Minmatar threat - it will simply evolve and come back to plague us in new and unpleasant ways. Why now? After QR it became clear that we and our Amarrian allies had the capability to take 9UY but the potential logistics and work involved were huge. We knew the Minnies would defend the station with everything they had. However, it was clear that Minmatar morale had taken a dive after QR. Corps and individuals had left the organisation plus allies who had helped them in QR (i.e. Imperial Order and Star Fraction) were now either out of the fight or diverted onto something else. The system seemed 'takeable' and our view was that if we didn't do it now someone else eventually would! Neverthless we didn't think it would be an easy fight and planned for a long siege, even if privately many thought it would be a walkover - a confidence (false as it turned out) engendered by the rapidity of the QR conquest. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Borg017 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:49:00 - [8] Die you Amarr scum! -----------------------------------------------
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 16:50:00 - [9] The Second great siege of 9UY The beginning The CVA assault on 9UY was scheduled to start on the evening of Friday the 4th May to give us a full weekend in which to potentially inflict as much damage on the Minmatars as possible. Our allies informed about the assault were PIE Inc, Vigilia Valeria, s3verance and Aegis Militia with other friendly locals such as NOS and North Star Confederation informed on the day. A large Amarrian fleet was assembled and the Minmatar's simply didn't have the numbers to stop two of their large POS being placed into reinforced. The CVA also took the opportunity to construct its own POS in the system from which to base. So far so good but our expectation was that the real defence would start when the tower came out of reinforced. The Minmatar surprise and the Amarrian disaster The next day CVA and allied forces began to prepare for the assault on the first POS to come out of reinforced however the Minmatars had not been idle. We had expect the Ushra'khan to call in support but what awaited our fleet was beyond our worst imaginings. The following organisations had answered the Minmatar's call for help: The Establishment Outbreak Einherjar Rising EVOKE Betrayal Under Mayhem (BUM) To say that we were surprised was an understatement. A couple of these organisations had been involved in the previous 'pirate' siege of 9UY whilst Einherjar had spent the previous month pirating in Providence and shooting UK, CVA and neutrals. Whilst some in our organisation were 'upset' that UK had brought in these 'piratical' non-RP organisations to do battle for them, most accepted that it actually made good RP sense - after all terrorists aren't supposed to be nice guys. There were however consequences for this UK decision but I shall come on to this later. Between them these very competent PvP groupings fielded a susbtantial fleet supported by UK's not unsubstantial capital contribution. In addition, UK's new allies also provided a Titan and a couple of Motherships to the terrorist fleet. The CVA had up to this point fought individual motherhships but to face two, plus a Titan, in front of a hostile POS was extremely challenging. UK was also receiving assistance from the Chaos Incarnate alliance and other random elements. In QR the CVA had fought with a substantial advantage in tech II fitted snipers but this advantage was now wiped out. The question was should we risk our Dreads in front of a reinforced UK POS with that much enemy firepower in local. Local topped out at around 250 pilots (approximately 100 of which were in the Amarrian gang). Despite the odds we decided to proceed... There is no doubt we got our arses spanked. Losing six capitals in a single evening is not a loss that can be shrugged off by any alliance - let alone one the size of ours. Yet we put our balls on the line and we gave it a go. Despite being outmatched we still succeeded in inflicting reasonable support losses on the enemy and gave them something to think about. These Einherjar battle reports http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=517856 posted shortly after the Saturday evening fights give you some idea of the carnage... This screenie http://www.inet.hr/dgreen/randomfiles/2007.05.06.20.20.25_4-20_capitals.jpg is a snapshot of some of the Capitals arrayed against us... This was the first time the CVA (and our allies) had been defeated on such a large scale and to be honest it hurt and was followed by a lot of internal discussion. Neverthless Amarrians are nothing if not stubborn and while it was clear that a change of tactics was needed. We were determined to go on with the fight despite at that stage being massively outclassed. Indeed this video clip that someone posted on our forums the day after the 'massacre' sums up the general attitude that CVA adopted to this setback http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rFx6OFooCs ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:00:00 - [10] Making them come to us It was clear that in the short run anymore major POS assaults would be pointless. The alliance assembled by the Minmatars were simply too well equipped and talented to beat in a head to head blood fest, particularly in front of hostile POS. However we had one key advantage - DETERMINATION. Providence is our home we were not going to go anywhere, but the willingness of UK's new allies to sit around was still to be measured. We needed sap our enemies will to resist. We had been stung bad and we wanted revenge. If we did not have the capability to take down the enemy POS then we would see if they would be willing to take down some of ours instead and put their own Capitals at risk in front of POS. This attitude was summed up by an leadership post at this period: "Our goal is to bring their fight to us. Let them expose their ships under our guns. UK themselves have no ability to resist our forces directly. As we've seen they have all sorts of allies. They wield a large number of capital ships. The reality is, most of those allies are here for kills and battles. We choose those battles carefully and dictate the terms. This may mean setting up an op and sitting inside the pos all day. However as we have seen. When the time comes CVA is still superior. Keep moving in resources people. Every ship, every module, ever stick of ammo. We will take 9uy. Everyone should have no illusion that this will be a short operation." To that end we extended our bridgehead in 9UY with a couple more POS (bringing total to three) and dug in for the long haul. In addition, we created 'interdiction/sniper' squads that operated almost permanently in 9UY to make things difficult for our enemies. Although we had taken huge losses at the outset we started to gradually claw that back. During this period Ushra'khan with aid from their allies Chaos Incarnate did actually succeed in downing two large CVA towers which we were not able to defend adequately but these were swiftly replaced and interdiction/sniping patrols continued. Annoying the neighbours As mentioned above Ushra'khan's recruitment of percieved 'pirate' corps was to have other consequences. Providence was home to several other neutral alliances which had taken no part in the CVA attack on 9UY. These alliances - Sylph, United Corporations of EVE (UCE) and Brotherhood of Steel were genuinely disgruntled that 9UY was now a safe zone for many pilots that had (and continued to) prey on their pilots in Providence. The UK view was that as these alliances were not actively helping UK in the defence they would just have to live with it (an if they are not our friend then they are our enemy approach) and as a result alienated large groups of pilots who had a vested interest in Providence. As mentioned previously most in CVA felt that UK were justified in doing everything they needed to do to save their station and from an RP perspective 'terrorists' and 'pirates' working together is hardly that much of a shock. However, up until this point UK had always taken an 'anti-pirate' line so it is understandable why their neighbours were now upset by this change in approach (even if some of the subsequent forum smack on this subject really wasn't necessary). Although the alienating of neighbours did not have a major impact on the overall combat in 9UY (which continued to be lead by CVA and our Amarrian allies) it was noticeable that as things dragged on we started receiving more local support which did prove useful if only because it gave UK more headaches. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR

Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:01:00 - [11] Ushra'khan and friends take the offensive While we may have wanted to get Ushra'khan and allied dreadnaughts in front of POS we wanted those POS to be in 9UY. So it came as a nasty shock to us when a Minmatar fleet turned up in our own Outpost system of XR3 (one week after we had launched the 9UY op) and succeeded in putting all POS into reinforced. We were now on the serious defensive. Over the next few hours we gathered a susbstantial fleet including lots of locals and some IAC and awaited the inevitable assault when the POSes came out of reinforced. This report from Eddie Gordo and the various CVA responses details what happened next http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=519802. The Minmatars did successfully take down a CVA capital POS. I know there is some UK bitterness about my original response to this battlereport so I will state unequivocally - WELL DONE UK. However, I will also repeat that from our perspective (being faced by what we faced) we were more concerned about defending the sovereignty of the system, which we thought was under major threat. We did take the decision to sacrifice the Capital POS because the debacle on the gate had cost us over 50% of our snipers and we didn't want to sacrifice any more of our fleet at a POS with the punching power of a sickly Gallente toddler. We had therefore decided to make our stand and fight at one of the other large deathstars where we had a good chance of inflicting a heavy price on any attackers. Ushra'khan (probably wisely) decided not to take us up on that offer, so from our perspective the 'defence' had been successful despite the POS loss. Neverthless kudos for achieving it. The original jump in took balls from Ushra'khan and their allies and they did achieve what they had wanted to achieve - it was just a pity for them that they hadn't hit it a few weeks earlier ;-) Back to 9UY Following the XR3 attack CVA forces returned to 9UY and continued to interdict the system to best of our abilities with the aim of grinding down our enemy's will to resist. We were still waiting for Ushra'khan and friends to mount a major attack on our POS which would give us an opportunity to kill some of their capitals - but it didn't happen. It is fair to say that this period was very difficult as it meant that pretty much every CVA member was expected to be on the frontline fulltime - and much of that time there was simply nothing to do - which isn't why anyone plays a game. As a result our tactics seemed to be grinding us down as much as the enemy and we really had no idea if it was having an impact apart from the fact that their numbers (and particularly their ally's numbers) in 9UY continued to decline. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:05:00 - [12] POS spamming begins Around three weeks after the first attack on 9UY it became clear to us that Ushra'khan and friends were not going to mount a serious campaign to hit our POS. Yes they had destroyed a couple in the first week but after we successfully defended a few these attacks pretty much stopped. It was clear that unless something new happened we would be left in a permanent stalemate. Much though we hadn't wanted to get involved in a POS spam war at the outset (which is why we had never maintained more than three POS for the first three week) it was clear that we had to do something to mount the pressure on UK and make them take offensive against our POS. The problem is that 9UY has 55 moons. The logistics involved in gaining POS superiority in that system were absolutely immense. Nevertheless we decided to go ahead anyway and this was the UK response from Maggot http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=527206&page=2 The CVA constructed approximately 10 POS on the morning of 27th May and Ushra'khan counter spammed. CVA then constructed even more POS and again Ushra'khan responded to the point where all 55 moons in the system were occupied by POS. UK still had a numbers advantage in terms of large towers but many of their other moons were occupied by small towers to prevent CVA occupation. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:07:00 - [13] Sovereignty falls Due to the fact CVA had first 'spammed' before a downtime the UK were not able to respond until after that downtime. POS mechanics then meant that despite UK having a 'large' tower advantage in the system there would be a period of a day when sovereignty would drop and the station would be takeable. Sov dropped on Saturday 2nd of May. Before I go on to the consequences of that I would like to clear something up because it has been quite controversial in UK/CVA OOC relations since then. The CVA did not deliberately spam those towers at that time with the deliberate intention of 'exploiting' POS mechanics. Did we take advantage of it when sov dropped - yes we did - but there was genuine surprise within CVA when Sov did drop. The reason the POS were errected before downtime was purely and simply because it was the best time to do it. Pre-downtime was often the quietest activity period for both sides in this war and when you are erecting a large number of POS you don't want large enemy fleets around. During the siege of QR Ushra'khan themselves snuck up POSes on at least two occasions pre-downtime. This is an internal CVA post on the subject by Aralis who was one of the people most involved in the POS construction. "And actually UK do have a valid complaint about unfair over this pos/outpost attack. I never really thought they'd lose sov on Saturday. Actually it's logical that they should and the idea had crossed my mind but I thought "nah it won't work logically like that" - I'd actually got the impression it didn't during the QR siege. If we'd planned for this yes I think they would have a valid point totally - and of course they don't know that we didn't." As mentioned above we DID take advantage when sov dropped - but I want to make it clear that the POS spammage before downtime was NOT a deliberate effort to exploit game mechanics. Anyway, getting back on track with the 'siege' report. Sovereignty did drop after downtime on Saturday 2nd of June despite the fact that Ushra'khan at that stage still had POS superiority in the system. We decided that we would attack the station with a view to making things difficult for UK's logistics - at least until they UK regained system sovereignty the next day and retook the station from us. CVA massed forces and successfully took the station. The previous four weeks of siege had reduced UK activity and none of their allies were around - as a result the station capture happened pretty much without incident. The station was renamed 'Reclaiming' to reflect the CVA's and our allies goals in Providence. The loss of the station (even temporarily) seemed to be a massive blow in morale for the Minmatars and it served to revitalise the Amarrian forces. Increasingly we received help from other local alliances such as Sylph and the fact that we were 'local' (and therefore had a vested interest) whereas UK's new allies were not meant that we had a clear numbers advantage. With the station in our hands we decided to press the advantage and started attacking UK POSes in the system. Over the weekend of 2/3 June we destroyed 11 Minmatar POS (most small placeholders), reinforced another 12 POS and errected a further 5 large towers of our own - guaranteeing us sytem sov within 5 days. This was a huge effort by our capital pilots with the siege gang operating almost 36 hours straight. The loss of the station seemed to have severely demoralised the Minmatars and this new Amarrian offensive met little resistance from the outnumbered and weary defenders and conversations on various forums and ingame indicated that Ushra'khan had accepted defeat in the 'second great siege of 9UY'. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:09:00 - [14] The last throw of the dice On Sunday 3rd June system sovereignty returned to Ushra'khan and we awaited an assault on the station which didn't come. However the next night scouts reported a build up of Ushra'khan numbers in 9UY and surrounding systems and also the return of Ushra'khan's Outbreak, Einherjar Rising and BUM allies. The shoe was once again on the other foot and the huge Minmatar fleet assembled meant that there was little we could do to stop the terrorists reclaiming 'Reclaiming'. Even Backdoor Bandit of the Minmatar * Rights League had shown up to help his brothers. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=531695 A CVA attempt was made to interrupt the recapture of the station but was beaten off by UK and allies with heavy Amarr losses. Once the Minmatars had regained the station they began an evacuation of assets which reminded me of the alliance escaping from Hoth in 'The Empire Strikes Back' :P . CVA and friends made some attempt to interdict this traffic but much of it escaped successfully. Despite temporary system superiority on Monday evening the Minmatars and allies made no attempt to construct new towers (there were by now many empty moons) or to attack CVA towers. It was clear that the terrorists had decided to accept their defeat in Providence. Today (Wednesday 6th of June) sovereignty in 9UY system returned to the CVA who by now had a 25 to 16 advantage in large towers in the system, after knocking down a few more UK POSes. There was no indication that the Ushra'khan were interested in either defending their remaining towers, constructing more or knocking down CVA towers.. With sovereignty back in CVA hands our forces attacked the station shields shortly after downtime and met no resistance from the remaining terrorists in the system. 'Reclaiming' was back in Amarrian hands with little immediate prospect that that situation would change. Thus ended the 'second great siege of 9UY'... ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR**
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:10:00 - [15] pos spamming isnt siege. It is financial delaying tactics. I have a strange feeling your pos will be reinforced in short order http://nhimebaugh.wetpaint.com/ Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:11:00 - [16] Conclusion This was a hard fought and epic siege. The Ushra'khan despite now being clearly outgunned by the Amarrian 'bloc' fought tooth and nail to hold on to 'Unity'. They pushed us to our limit and beyond and the fact that eventually the ENTIRE 55 moon system was 'POSed up' was an indication of the determination of both sides to win this siege. The CVA and our friends did take heavy losses in the early days. The loss of 6 capitals in one evening is not to be sneezed at, nor was the fact that the Minmatar alliance managed to break into one of our home systems and take down one of our capital shipyards in the face of a large opposition fleet. However, these losses were gradually balanced out as the CVA maintained its interdiction on the system over the month. Before I post a few stats I will put a disclaimer on these as I did for the QR battlereport. These figures are off the CVA killboard. The sheer number of allies on either side means that at best these figures are a 'representation' of the kills/losses during the siege. While CVA did make up the bulk of the active 'Amarrian' forces and activity in 9UY we did have allies and not all their losses are included. This means that the figures have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Neverthless these pure CVA figures for the entirety of the siege up to the 5th June give some indication (albeit not perfect) of the scale of combat losses. Total - Kills 1196 - Losses 448 Assault frigate - 33/28 Battlecruiser - 50/27 Battleship - 137/69 Capsule - 390/67 Carrier - 0/3 Command ship - 9/3 Covert ops - 22/10 Cruiser - 112/29 Destroyer - 20/2 Dreadnought - 1/2 (does not include two allied dread losses on first Saturday - also does not include BUM dread killed when pilot fell asleep mid-pos siege as these stats are only from 9UY) Frigate - 173/41 Heavy assault - 16/5 Industrial - 17/2 Interceptor - 93/123 Interdictor - 28/22 Logistics - 1/3 Recon ship - 26/12 Shuttle - 35/0 Transport - 2/0 Yes Ushra'khan have now been forced out of Providence and yes we know that they are upset about that. There has been more OOC smack in this siege than any other in the history of the two alliances but that is kind of understandable when the stakes were so high (and so many non-RPers were involved). So what does the future hold? Well for Ushra'khan I cannot say. They have had an amazing history in Providence and played a large part in the story of the region. But whether they will be willing to butt heads with a CVA that has outgrown them economically and militarily is a question they will have to ask themselves. Maybe they will continue to plague us 'guerilla-style'? Maybe they will focus on hitting the Empire based Amarr RP corps such as PIE, VV and AM that provided so much support to CVA? Maybe they will finally unite the rest of the Minmatar RP groups and come back to seek revenge? Or maybe they will simply fade away now that they have lost their 0.0 foothold? I don't know but I for one would certainly like to see them survive and prosper in an OOC sense as they are a bunch of brave scrappers and good folks. And for the CVA? Despite claims to the contrary we have not lost sight of our roots and our objectives. Our goal is still to create an extension of the Amarr Empire in Providence and that is still a long way off and we face plenty of challenges securing our 'borders' and providing security to all residents. We still have lots of enemies - some of whom have taken advantage of our absence over the past month to bring terror to systems that we had previously cleansed such as Kheram. Now that the 'second great siege of 9UY' is over we shall return to smiting all pirates and heretics who enter Holy Amarrian Providence and low-sec Empire space to prey on CVA, our friends and the neutrals who live under our Amarrian shield. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:13:00 - [17] I havnt really followed these events, but after reading this all i can only congratulate you on your achiefments against these enemys. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:13:00 - [18] And the Amarrians complain about the length of our war reports on the IGS ...
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:14:00 - [19] Thanks Firstly, a huge thanks to all our allies and friends who assisted in the siege and put in many long boring hours. Your commitment and willingness to persevere was what made the eventual difference. PIE, VV, AM, s3verance all played a significant part as did NOS, North Star Confederation and laterly Sylph (when they eventually decided what side they were on :wink: ) Secondly, we wish to congratulate our enemy's allies (and I know that is easy to say when you are the victor). Outbreak, EVOKE, Einharjar, BUM and Establishment all proved yet again that they are class acts and supremely talented at what they do. There is no doubt that their intervention on the Minmatar side seriously stymied us and delayed the taking of 9UY. Similarly we have to applaud their attitude (with a few exceptions) in local and on the forums. Thirdly, we wish to thank UK for giving us many good fights over the years and helping make Providence one of the more 'interesting' regions in the EVE universe. Yes I know tempers frayed in the end and a lot of crap was spouted but the fact is that even though you lost and are no doubt extremely depressed and bitter about that right now you have a hell of a lot to be proud about. As I said above I do hope this is not the end for you and that you go on to new and greater things OOC. Whatever happens you do retain my respect (even if some of you cannot say the same about us). I also wish to congratulate my fellow pilots in the CVA who have showed massive grit, determination and sheer will to win over the past few weeks. Unfortunately rl kept me out of a good chunk of the fighting (for which I feel amazingly guilty) but even when it looked most bleak no one gave up or even suggested giving up. And finally thanks to you, the reader, for actually making the effort to plough the whole way through this. I hope you were not too bored. Final Word I have tried to make this battle report as 'balanced' as I can and give the wider EVE audience a picture of the whole siege but of course it has to be written from the CVA perspective as that is the only one I have. However I have also linked some 'UK' initiated threads to give some of the other side of the story. I am sure some will disagree with elements of this and I am happy if UK want to put their side of the story but please try and be constructive.[/i] Amarr Victor ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Shai Faetal Amarr Burn The Witch	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:16:00 - [20] my eyes get sore when i read on the monitor, when will the book come out :D

Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:17:00 - [21] Hardin, damn you for posting all this now! I was F5'ing and now I'm late to meet a friend! Anyway, I really enjoyed reading that. Congratulations on taking the station. We enjoyed fighting with you and are glad we helped ensure it was not an easy task. The only thing I would wish to say, is I'd take the KB stats with a huge pinch of salt (our KB show a 72% efficiency against you) but you know what they say - lies, damn lies, and statistics. See you around Providence ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Neveren Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:25:00 - [22] Nice read.. I like the details you presented leading up to this epic seige STC recruiting!
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:34:00 - [23] Down with the slavers! Yay for large corporations!
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:34:00 - [24] Very good read, thanks Hardin and congratulations on the victory. -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Aran Cole Minmatar The Aegis Militia Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:36:00 - [25] Amarr Victor! _______________________ The Reclaiming: Nice Civilization, We'll Take It
Malvahne Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.06 17:48:00 - [26] Great read. Sorry to hear you lost your station Ushra'khan. Unity Station was my first home in 0.0 and its what got me rolling in first IAC and now triple A I always enjoyed local when the Curatores Veritatis Alliance came by, all that geeky rp chatter. Always a good read. I hope that your movement wont die becous of this and that you have some good old fastion guarillia warefare fun. As to the Curatores Veritatis Alliance; well played. Its nice to see not every is obsest with the hole BoB/Dev and flame war game so many play these days. Enjoy your new station o/ (stoned post)
Pilgrippa 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:00:00 - [27] Wow nice read Hardin. I can't imagine how mind-numbing it must be to manipulate so many POS.
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:01:00 - [28] Nice writeup. Couple minor tweaks I'd change here and there, but a lot more fair and balanced than most. Congratulations. As a Providence observer over much of this time period, I think the real underlying issue for UK was their fairly gutless former allies. As fewer and fewer of them would field ships to lend support, CVA was able to rule the UK/CVA primetime with numeric strength. This continued for long enough to wear down morale, cause even more weasels to slip away, and eventually land UK in the position of needing to defend their station alone while their former allies kissed up to CVA in hopes of begging table scraps later. I did not come to Providence to make friends, promote security, nor build support. I simply find it distasteful when worthy men are left to fall so that cowards and sycophants can thrive.

Kreul Intentions Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:03:00 - [29] FYI - I removed a few posts inbetween Hardin's posts, please feel free to post your thoughts again. I only did this to keep the report one smooth read. Thank you. forum rules \| [email protected]

Manic Mole VENOM72 Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:03:00 - [30] good report Hardin. ---[sig starts here]--- a proud member of whatever allince i happen to be in at the time! eveything i say is my personal feeling and has no blar blar blar you get the idea.

Seleene Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:05:00 - [31] Very well written, Hardin. - Vid - 'P-2 Defense'
Dezzereth Two Swords Guild	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:08:00 - [32] Excellent read. I also like the detailing of events that led to the siege, so outsiders can understand the situation better.
scififreak Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:17:00 - [33] Amarr victor! ...oh wait Excellent read again Hardin.
Aindrias Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:21:00 - [34] This was worth the time it took me to read! Awesome post Hardin! IMHO you achieved the "balance" you were looking for See what you can do with Paintbrush?
The Mute Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:23:00 - [35] A fair description of events. I believe the timeline is off in few places but most of the story is there. Good post Hardin. --------------------------------------------------
Schneiderr Asgard Schiffswerften Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:23:00 - [36] very nice writeup! i loved the few days we were actually 'active' in providence alongside our friends in Ushra'khan and their allies. much respect to both parties
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:23:00 - [37] i forsee lots of pain. Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Elite	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:27:00 - [38] Glory to CVA and all who helped with the removal of U'K from providence, Grats to CVA for nearing your goals of a complete "NRDS" region. To the rest of you... These guys, both U'K and CVA have set a prime example of how to wage a war, whether RP or not, no spies, just one side against the other, both side having goals. I Deeply believe CVA had no intention of abusing POS mechanics, and i believe they did their best to avoid a POS spam war, oh well. Both sides suffered losses, gains, and then some more loss. And again, 'grats to CVA, Aegis Militia, PIE, Sylph, and all others who helped in this seige, form the sounds, it was a very even matched fight overall only sad i didnt decide to come help. Amarr Victor! - The mods shall not have my sig, if they do i'll kill CCP's hamsters. kill 'em! we have backup gerbils - Deckard kills any rodents of any kind for good measure ha!
Reash Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:27:00 - [39] Originally by: Butter Dog Hardin, damn you for posting all this now! I was F5'ing and now I'm late to meet a friend! The only thing I would wish to say, is I'd take the KB stats with a huge pinch of salt (our KB show a 72% efficiency against you) but you know what they say - lies, damn lies, and statistics. Indeed, i believe any entity involved in the siege (on either side) could likely produce kill statistics which are very simular, i believe hardin only included statistics to show the scale of the fight (especially considering those are the statistics for 1 system) Statistics can always be a cause of arguments so cannot hurt to get the point accross to everybody that they are only a representation and certainly not an accurate total. ----------------------- Auctoritan Syndicate Director
Chaomos Skynard The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:42:00 - [40] Brilliant write up, if only more people could put together such riveting reads. Also congratz, to win the day with such a huge force arrayed against you is some achievement. It also shows that stiking with your friends pays off (unlike U'K who over the last few months seem to have virtualy turned pirates themselves). Hope you build up your strength for more epic battles. Chaomos Hedonistic Diplo

MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:45:00 - [41] I couldn't help picturing Haldin and lots of Amar slaphead types during this sequence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rFx6OFooCs, really made me laugh This was really some great reading (as ussual ofc), and I wish it was even more of it. Good luck to UK Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow May I have pink next time plz?
Queen Misery	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:47:00 - [42] Edited by: Queen Misery on 06/06/2007 18:47:11 doh, always the wrong character delete pls.
Demoser Caldari Cornerstone Unlimited The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.06.06 18:49:00 - [43] Quite the post, never mind how hard it is run all those POS, how long did it take to write that and how many re-writes did it take Congrats on the victory and the outpost CVA, sounds like it was great fun. Quote: Congrats. You showed those NPC'ers what PvP fitted nanowhoring ships can do!
Helen STK Scientific Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:03:00 - [44] Amarr Victor!
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:05:00 - [45] POS spamming...personally, I don't see it as a cheap tactic. Warfare isn't two hordes of knuckleheads meeting in midfield smacking each other over the head until one side is left standing. That path leads to blob warfare and unworkable lagfests. Warfare is about objectives. CVA had a clear objective, drive UK out of Providence. That goal didn't require smashing UK's military, it didn't require destroying all their hardware. Only an idiot thinks so two dimensionally. Like it or not, the gold ring of sovreignty goes to the side that best develops a system, be it by construction of your own outposts OR destruction of your enemy's outposts. For any group to complain about being outbuilt, might I suggest immediate medical attention for testosterone poisoning. UK showed that they had the muscle needed to handle anything CVA could throw at them head on, but they focused so much on that one aspect of strength, they left themselves wide open on other fronts. They got outflanked, they inflexibly decided what was the "proper" way to win a war, and when CVA pulled the rug out from under them, they ended up on their ass. If anything, I'm EXTREMELY pleased that CVA demonstrated how sovreign warfare is more than a battle of the blobs. Why burn yourself out rebuilding capital fleets when you can run their capital fleets around like a matador working the bullring giving them targets to beat their head against. From a cost standpoint, I'll put money on the table betting that bare bones death stars cost a helluva lot less than a fleet of replacement capital ships.
Vandervecken Smith Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:17:00 - [46] Nice writeup Hardin. As a former resident of Providence under ISS, I have been watching this war for a long time, and I am actually very disappointed in the CVA decision to POS spam. It was uncalled for, and I feel U'K bitterness over the result is well founded.
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:19:00 - [47] Quote: If anything, I'm EXTREMELY pleased that CVA demonstrated how sovreign warfare is more than a battle of the blobs. Why burn yourself out rebuilding capital fleets when you can run their capital fleets around like a matador working the bullring giving them targets to beat their head against. From a cost standpoint, I'll put money on the table betting that bare bones death stars cost a helluva lot less than a fleet of replacement capital ships. a deathstar runs at the price of a dread Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:22:00 - [48] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Quote: If anything, I'm EXTREMELY pleased that CVA demonstrated how sovreign warfare is more than a battle of the blobs. Why burn yourself out rebuilding capital fleets when you can run their capital fleets around like a matador working the bullring giving them targets to beat their head against. From a cost standpoint, I'll put money on the table betting that bare bones death stars cost a helluva lot less than a fleet of replacement capital ships. a deathstar runs at the price of a dread With or without fittings (and I'm asking not facetiously)?
Eddie Gordo Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:23:00 - [49] Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 06/06/2007 19:25:04 Good write up, there are some timeline errors and a few minor adjustments I would make but its actually pretty accurate. Amarr Victor After enduring my second 1month+ pos siege I can honestly say morale is actually higher now than it was just prior to it. I'm not trying to say "we didnt want that outpost anyway" because quite clearly we did want it. What I'm saying is the whole eve map is open to us and is full of possibilities we hadent even considered before. Ushra'khan will visit often, you can count on that. But I for one hope that providence isnt our primary focus. At least not for a little while. We have a decent (ish) capital fleet, with many pilots than ships, room to expand there. We excell in skirmish warfare, and perform well enough in larger fleets. We have a nice group of new allies who share similar interests and capabilities We are no longer tied to a region. This is going to be fun. Many thanks to everyone that came to our assistance. I'm not going to the london meet this weekend, but if I ever meet any of you in real life you can count on me buying you a beer Now Recruiting
Niding Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:30:00 - [50] Ushra'Khan and friends has given me countless of sleepless nights. We have been fighting tooth and nails, and Ive been both enjoying it and loathing it (falling asleep at work after a night of fighting). Stand up guys at both sides of the conflict.

Tar Kovsky Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:37:00 - [51] A well-written and extremely fair piece; nicely done!
Derrios Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:38:00 - [52] Dirty RP'ers! (Great Read, very well done.) ----------------------------------------------- I got something to put in you. at the *** bar.
Tar Kovsky Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:51:00 - [53] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Lilan Kahn a deathstar runs at the price of a dread With or without fittings (and I'm asking not facetiously)? A deathstar with fittings costs about as much as a dread without them. But there's no insurance payout when the deathstar pops, and a few weeks of deathstar fuel will pay for your dread's fittings as well...
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:57:00 - [54] Really nice read. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 19:59:00 - [55] Originally by: Tar Kovsky Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Lilan Kahn a deathstar runs at the price of a dread With or without fittings (and I'm asking not facetiously)? A deathstar with fittings costs about as much as a dread without them. But there's no insurance payout when the deathstar pops, and a few weeks of deathstar fuel will pay for your dread's fittings as well... Thank you for that.
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.06.06 20:00:00 - [56] awsome writeup, a few facts i didnt know have been cleared. Also i want to add that it has been a pleasure of fighting along the brave mimatar and fighting against such enemie who are willing to fight. <3 all involved
Ventosus x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.06 20:09:00 - [57] good story \o/ ............... I will win Eve
Gegi Wau Minmatar Liberty Labs	Posted - 2007.06.06 20:33:00 - [58] Edited by: Gegi Wau on 06/06/2007 20:32:10 Originally by: Janu Hull POS spamming...personally, I don't see it as a cheap tactic. Warfare isn't two hordes of knuckleheads meeting in midfield smacking each other over the head until one side is left standing. That path leads to blob warfare and unworkable lagfests. Warfare is about objectives. CVA had a clear objective, drive UK out of Providence. That goal didn't require smashing UK's military, it didn't require destroying all their hardware. Only an idiot thinks so two dimensionally. Like it or not, the gold ring of sovreignty goes to the side that best develops a system, be it by construction of your own outposts OR destruction of your enemy's outposts. For any group to complain about being outbuilt, might I suggest immediate medical attention for testosterone poisoning. UK showed that they had the muscle needed to handle anything CVA could throw at them head on, but they focused so much on that one aspect of strength, they left themselves wide open on other fronts. They got outflanked, they inflexibly decided what was the "proper" way to win a war, and when CVA pulled the rug out from under them, they ended up on their ass. If anything, I'm EXTREMELY pleased that CVA demonstrated how sovreign warfare is more than a battle of the blobs. Why burn yourself out rebuilding capital fleets when you can run their capital fleets around like a matador working the bullring giving them targets to beat their head against. From a cost standpoint, I'll put money on the table betting that bare bones death stars cost a helluva lot less than a fleet of replacement capital ships. So, you are saying that fleet fights and skirmishes are a thing of the past and POS spamming is the way to go? Oh my. While this might be fun for the logistics freaks amongst us, I bet the majority of pilots out there would rather revel in a bit of battlefield mayhem than haul POS fuel around. POS spamming is a pretty lame strategy, but one that works, unfortunately. U'K simply didn't have the resources necessary to cover the myriad of moons in that system with POSes of their own. You seem to think that POS warfare and blobs are mutually exclusive, which makes me wonder how much you really know about the realities of sovereignty struggles. What do you do when your enemy puts up a bunch of POSes in your system? You try to take them out. So then both sides bring their carriers, dreadnoughts etc. and there you have it... giant blob fest. Pretty much everyone who's ever been involved in POS warfare agrees that it sucks. Big time. It's a tedious business, and I hope the changes coming with Rev2 will make it a bit more interesting. Oh, and by the way, great battle report, Hardin. AMARRES EUNT DOMUS
Mortim Minmatar Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 20:34:00 - [59] Great report. Thanks to all those involved on behalf of the Sylph alliance. These have been my most entertaining days yet. Well fought all round. Mort
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 20:41:00 - [60] No, and if I left that impression, I apologize. My point was that POS warfare is an equally valid means of accomplishing the goal of establishing sovreignty. Its an option that's available, and one that shouldn't be metagamed to the sidelines because of some pedantic Marquis of Queensbury notion about what constitutes "fair" play. War isn't supposed to be fair. UK as much as showed that when they did an end run on CVA and popped their capital array. Why take out the weakened POS structure when the CVA fleet was protecting the other better prepared tower? Same logic, only a fool hits an opponent where he's best capable of soaking damage from the blow. In 9UY, CVA admitted they came up short against UK's potential combat forces, so they hit them in their soft spot. Just because it was "spamming" towers in a sovreignty race doesn't invalidate the outcome. No more than "spamming" seige weapons at already built towers would invalidate racing for sovreignty by reducing an enemy presence in the system.

Eddie Gordo Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 20:46:00 - [61] Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 06/06/2007 20:45:53 Originally by: Janu Hull War isn't supposed to be fair. UK as much as showed that when they did an end run on CVA and popped their capital array. Why take out the weakened POS structure when the CVA fleet was protecting the other better prepared tower? Because it was a capital shipyard and could potentially have held a mothership, or even a titan in it. It was our primary objective, the secondary was to take sov. I think this has been made clear a number of times from our side. Now Recruiting
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 20:51:00 - [62] Originally by: Eddie Gordo Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 06/06/2007 20:45:53 Originally by: Janu Hull War isn't supposed to be fair. UK as much as showed that when they did an end run on CVA and popped their capital array. Why take out the weakened POS structure when the CVA fleet was protecting the other better prepared tower? Because it was a capital shipyard and could potentially have held a mothership, or even a titan in it. It was our primary objective, the secondary was to take sov. I think this has been made clear a number of times from our side. Note: I'm not criticizing Ushra'Khan for that move. It was a smart move and you should be proud of it. It was ruthless and effective. Maximum damage, minimum casualties. At the same time, CVA's POS campaign was the same way. Minimal losses, maximum return.
Bruno Bonner Gallente Lutin Group	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:01:00 - [63] Congratz to The Amarr loyalists, they have earned the right to oversee Providence. ------ aka BinderAJ
Freemos Portos	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:06:00 - [64] Edited by: Freemos Portos on 06/06/2007 21:06:53 Congrats CVA - great write up Hardin.
Dantalus Portos Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:07:00 - [65] Great respect to U'K. Eddie's post also filled me with great relief. I agree 100% that, ironically, losing Unity may make the U'K even stronger. For a long time now it has been accepted that you excel in skirmish (hit and run) type warfare. This fits well with your terrorist/'scourge of Amarr' position in EVE. Being free to fight where you want and when you want will play to all your strengths. I truly hope (OOC) you come back bigger and better, and anytime you want a good scrap, the Vigilia Valeria Alliance (-VV-) will be waiting for you. High sec, low sec or whatever. Amarr Victor! (and all Hail to the mighty Ushra'Khan)
Abye Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:11:00 - [66] Very nice read, thumbs up ___ Inappropriate signature. Please do not use this signature. Email us for more information -Eldo ([email protected])
kincajou niten Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:11:00 - [67] Originally by: Eddie Gordo Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 06/06/2007 19:25:04 Good write up, there are some timeline errors and a few minor adjustments I would make but its actually pretty accurate. Amarr Victor After enduring my second 1month+ pos siege I can honestly say morale is actually higher now than it was just prior to it. I'm not trying to say "we didnt want that outpost anyway" because quite clearly we did want it. What I'm saying is the whole eve map is open to us and is full of possibilities we hadent even considered before. Ushra'khan will visit often, you can count on that. But I for one hope that providence isnt our primary focus. At least not for a little while. We have a decent (ish) capital fleet, with many pilots than ships, room to expand there. We excell in skirmish warfare, and perform well enough in larger fleets. We have a nice group of new allies who share similar interests and capabilities We are no longer tied to a region. This is going to be fun. Many thanks to everyone that came to our assistance. I'm not going to the london meet this weekend, but if I ever meet any of you in real life you can count on me buying you a beer Personally I'm very glad to see such emotions in U'K after a bit (ok maybe not a bit) of mixed hard feeling posts from both sides. One half of me is cheering for you and a little jealous of the perspectives that are now open to you, other half is saying "Amarr Victor!". :-)
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:14:00 - [68] Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 06/06/2007 20:58:21 Originally by: Eddie Gordo Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 06/06/2007 20:45:53 Originally by: Janu Hull War isn't supposed to be fair. UK as much as showed that when they did an end run on CVA and popped their capital array. Why take out the weakened POS structure when the CVA fleet was protecting the other better prepared tower? Because it was a capital shipyard and could potentially have held a mothership, or even a titan in it. It was our primary objective, the secondary was to take sov. I think this has been made clear a number of times from our side. Note: I'm not criticizing Ushra'Khan for that move. It was a smart move and you should be proud of it. It was ruthless and effective. Maximum damage, minimum casualties. At the same time, CVA's POS campaign was the same way. Minimal losses, maximum return. At neither engagement was there any obligation for the two forces to meet in the middle and take turns clubbing each other over the head. You weren't obligated to give CVA a chance to disrupt your fleet at the shipyard, and they weren't obligated to give you a clean shot at stopping them from pushing you out of 9UY. They are both equally valid moves. This is not a critique of the forces involved in this war or the decisions they made. I am only responding to the notion of POS warfare as "lame". Lame is cutting off your options because of preconceived notions of "acceptable" behavior. If we went that route, you could make the same arguement about any number of otherwise legitimate actions in conflicts that don't involve fleets bashing into each other. No one in there right mind whants to pos spam on 70 moons only done once before in eve history that i can recall Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:31:00 - [69] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 06/06/2007 20:58:21 Originally by: Eddie Gordo Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 06/06/2007 20:45:53 Originally by: Janu Hull War isn't supposed to be fair. UK as much as showed that when they did an end run on CVA and popped their capital array. Why take out the weakened POS structure when the CVA fleet was protecting the other better prepared tower? Because it was a capital shipyard and could potentially have held a mothership, or even a titan in it. It was our primary objective, the secondary was to take sov. I think this has been made clear a number of times from our side. Note: I'm not criticizing Ushra'Khan for that move. It was a smart move and you should be proud of it. It was ruthless and effective. Maximum damage, minimum casualties. At the same time, CVA's POS campaign was the same way. Minimal losses, maximum return. At neither engagement was there any obligation for the two forces to meet in the middle and take turns clubbing each other over the head. You weren't obligated to give CVA a chance to disrupt your fleet at the shipyard, and they weren't obligated to give you a clean shot at stopping them from pushing you out of 9UY. They are both equally valid moves. This is not a critique of the forces involved in this war or the decisions they made. I am only responding to the notion of POS warfare as "lame". Lame is cutting off your options because of preconceived notions of "acceptable" behavior. If we went that route, you could make the same arguement about any number of otherwise legitimate actions in conflicts that don't involve fleets bashing into each other. No one in there right mind whants to pos spam on 70 moons only done once before in eve history that i can recall I'm pretty sure there are leaders in CVA feeling a massive pinch on their asscheek where their corp and alliance wallets used to be too. You're right, it was a crazy move, but damned if it didn't work. No one in their right minds wants to face a blob that you're almost certain not to beat, either, so what's left? For better or worse, they stepped out of their right minds and got the job done.
Seliah Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:31:00 - [70] Very nice read ! Thanks.

patteSatan Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:48:00 - [71] Very nice writeup, Hardin. Here's a toast to CVA from a former IAC member: SK+L TAMMEFAN! Translated: cheers, ffs Take care CVA, always liked you guys, even if your settings might differ.. (note. I never killed a CVA ever, you have killed me though) ...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell.
patteSatan Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:49:00 - [72] I forgot: Hardin for emporor!!!!!!!!! ...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:51:00 - [73] Originally by: kincajou niten Originally by: Eddie Gordo Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 06/06/2007 19:25:04 Good write up, there are some timeline errors and a few minor adjustments I would make but its actually pretty accurate. Amarr Victor After enduring my second 1month+ pos siege I can honestly say morale is actually higher now than it was just prior to it. I'm not trying to say "we didnt want that outpost anyway" because quite clearly we did want it. What I'm saying is the whole eve map is open to us and is full of possibilities we hadent even considered before. Ushra'khan will visit often, you can count on that. But I for one hope that providence isnt our primary focus. At least not for a little while. We have a decent (ish) capital fleet, with many pilots than ships, room to expand there. We excell in skirmish warfare, and perform well enough in larger fleets. We have a nice group of new allies who share similar interests and capabilities We are no longer tied to a region. This is going to be fun. Many thanks to everyone that came to our assistance. I'm not going to the london meet this weekend, but if I ever meet any of you in real life you can count on me buying you a beer Personally I'm very glad to see such emotions in U'K after a bit (ok maybe not a bit) of mixed hard feeling posts from both sides. One half of me is cheering for you and a little jealous of the perspectives that are now open to you, other half is saying "Amarr Victor!". :-) I echo Kincajou's sentiments Eddie. Thanks all for comments. It did take a long time to write, and many many edits after input from people on both CVA and Friends of Amarr forums. There are still craploads of typos but by the end I didn't care about those anymore. I did have some 'explanation' on ButterDog's battle stats peice but decided not to bother as didn't want to spoil the mood. He can convo me if he is interested Again apologies for length but felt that I needed to put the siege into some kind of context. Also apologies to those enemies and 'stories' that I may have skipped over lightly in the 'history' section. Our three wars with TSBS and invasions of the likes of SAS/TC/NSN, x13 et al were all interesting in their own way but would have distracted from the main reason for this thread ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
AonChilo Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 21:53:00 - [74] Nice report write-up. I actually took a little extra time off from RL to game more in Eve because of all the events in past month. Its been fun.
Fear Not 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:05:00 - [75] It's been fun. Congratulations CVA on your new outpost. Now I just hope I don't see another POS for a year! See you in space.
Gabriel Death Caldari Pog Mo Thoin SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:07:00 - [76] CONGRATULATIONS CVA!!!!!!!! I have never really been friends with CVA at the start since i moved down to Providence, I sided with Minmatar cause i lived in minmatar space and hated slavers, I myself being Irish and have been enslaved by the english nation in Real Life, know why the minmatars fight slavery but i took no part in that war against minmatar oppression, but i am very ANTI-PIRATE! So at the start i fought CVA, where and where, and tbh now, i even infiltrated cva space and found 20-25 pos's belonging to them and wrote down what they had and was keeping the results to myself, only i know of these locations and will not say them here. Sorry CVA for spying in your turf but you were my foes back then but now, they are my best friends and i will take those pos locations to the grave. Uk have turned pirate and that is the main reason why i am siding with CVA, ive helped uk in the past and have recieved no thanks but cva have thanked me once or twice and even have sayd GF to me when we were foes, amandie consemie for one from cva i have fought, i killed her once or twice, she even thanked me in local once, dont denie it girl But Now i am facing the facts and see the truth in even better light thanks to CVA, where uk have clouded my eyes. I like RP-ing but Uk have lost my conviction for it in EVE. Ill RP in the Future and even some Day, join the ranks of the CVA Armie and fight off the Minmatar Terrorists. Signed by a once-faithful uk friend ------------------------------------------------------- Gabriel Death of POG MO THOIN!
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:08:00 - [77] was a great campaign to have been a part of. as always CVA ops are great fun to join. good luck to the UK with whatever you decide to do next. hopefully you will regroup nicely so we can get back to shooting each other. i'll be the guy in the arbi sitting on your supplyroute :) Amarr Victor!
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:24:00 - [78] Edited by: Butter Dog on 06/06/2007 22:24:45 Originally by: Mortim Great report. Thanks to all those involved on behalf of the Sylph alliance. These have been my most entertaining days yet. Well fought all round. Mort Hello, Mortim. We havent finished playing with you yet See you soon ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Gabriel Death Caldari Pog Mo Thoin SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:27:00 - [79] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 06/06/2007 22:24:45 Originally by: Mortim Great report. Thanks to all those involved on behalf of the Sylph alliance. These have been my most entertaining days yet. Well fought all round. Mort Hello, Mortim. We havent finished playing with you yet See you soon LOL I remember you from a certain video clip
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:30:00 - [80] Originally by: Gabriel Death LOL I remember you from a certain video clip You really should keep away from Japanese 'entertainment' ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])

Jaydom Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:47:00 - [81] I have been fighting the various incarnations of Ushra Khan for over 3 years, and I have to say I almost envy your loss. The freedom you now have is simply amazing. Being tied down, having to fight defensively(for the most part) is tiring, but a job worth doing in our minds. You'll be able to get out there and have fun. Although I did not participate in this siege I do belive after all is said and done you will have your freedom and you guys will kick some ass and take some names :) G'luck,
Onnen Mentar Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 22:48:00 - [82] A fine battle report. Personally I'm very glad to have been part of this long campaign. Having to admit defeat is never fun and, as has been mentioned before, with so much at stake it is only natural that emotions are running a bit higher than usual. All in all it was good experience and good fun. I'm proud that our "bunch of terrorists" managed to bring the fight right to the doorstep of the Amarr empire. We held out for a long time too while being outgunned (and "out-industrialized", if that is a word) most of the time. Now after all this POS warfare, freedom has such a sweet sound to it again. Congratulations on a battle won! The fight to end slavery is far from over it seems...
Tar Kovsky Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 23:19:00 - [83] Edited by: Tar Kovsky on 06/06/2007 23:18:10 Originally by: Gabriel Death Uk have turned pirate and that is the main reason why i am siding with CVA Until now (and at least for the near future), the U'K has always followed a basically NRDS policy. However, we'll happily set you red if you'd like to describe yourselves as a "friend of CVA".
EveJoker Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.06 23:24:00 - [84] Very professional write up. Well done and GG to cva. One minor point is that despite the bos/slammers/sylph being anti pirate and active and supporting us in some anti pirate operations, they had acually napped cva and iac prior to CVA starting on 9uy (to the best of my knowledge). I think in many regards this lead to us looking for someone who would participate in this battle, and quite clearly we needed to focus our game on the attack rather than keeping the pipes clear of pirates. Now its over ofc theres a few depts to repay to our prior allies , thanks to both IAC and CVA for teaching us the effectiveness of a cloaked force in a system 24hrs/7days. Still in the overall scheme of things CVA have to be commended for having thought of just about everything, and having the determination to pull this through.
Agrikaan Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.06.06 23:46:00 - [85] Edited by: Agrikaan on 06/06/2007 23:46:01 Edited by: Agrikaan on 06/06/2007 23:45:45 I'm honoured and proud to have been a part of this campaign. It was as fun as boring at times. That's war in EVE, and as it should be. The huge "unknown" factor is what makes PvP great, it adds adrenalin even when it's calm. Good read, and thanks to CVA and all allies for good teamwork. Only once or twice did the emotions rise internally, often after very long operations. The Fleet Commanders served very well, calmly and with clear objectives in mind. Not afraid to get into a fight, and not to proud to refuse to leave one... :) Thanks also to U'K ofc, good chaps. Now that you are indeed more "free" (and as you seem to enjoy that illusion), I look forward to see you more on the Battlefield of Skirmishes, wherever that may be, rather than inside a POS. Maybe we can now find more than docked haulers in Rens on our patrols! That we pray for. And thus, in a sense, are all U'K pilots in our prayers as well. :) Now recruting!
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.06.06 23:54:00 - [86] Award for best campaign report of 2007 goes too...Hardin, the new Amarrian Emperor ;) Enjoyed the read very muchly ty and admired the stories of resiliance in the face of teams such as Outbreak and UK The freedom fighters will be back though i'm sure Ty Hardin for the huge amount of time to write this piece, its reinstated my interest in COAD forum Visit the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange in game or out
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 00:17:00 - [87] Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 07/06/2007 00:21:36 Well played CVA. I must admit I skim read much of that Hardin, but I did pick up on a couple of points in need of some comment. Your killboard stats require more than a pinch of salt to be representative of anything, perhaps a whole bucket would help. We have had several campaigns running for this entire conflict and none are running below 60%. For example taking Providence as a whole (lets not forget the battle over the Cap Ship Yard) since the first CVA POS went up in 9UY: Totals:Kills 1305 51655.18M Losses: 687 23845.1M Efficiency: 68.42% (Pods, freighters, haulers etc removed for the below breakdown) Ship Type: Kill Loss Assault frigate 4843 Battlecruiser13041 Battleship141103 Carrier30 Command ship73 Covert ops1416 Cruiser10479 Destroyer1615 Dreadnought41 Frigate13580 Heavy assault2511 Industrial3471 Interdictor2517 Logistics51 Recon ship2614 You can easily see from our POV despite losing Unity we don't feel as if we lost out on the killboard. This has been a period of marked K/D ratio improvement for U'K. I do wonder what the point of posting kill board stats is tbh, if 55 death stars doesn't sum up the scale of this conflict then I don't know what does. Hmm maybe the cap ship kill ratios? Us 7 : You 1 The other point I'd like to challenge is you stating we are now forced out of Providence. I would imagine you mean we have lost Unity and don't look to be going to regain sov in 9UY. However NKB alone still have several healthy death stars both in 9UY and other key positions, and if I read incoming reports correctly another alliance death star in 9UY was saved tonight. Until you wipe out our death stars I don't think you can claim you have driven us out. The area is far from secure. ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
LordAmarus Minmatar Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.07 00:59:00 - [88] Nice read and pretty balanced I'd say exept some things I really don't get. 1) what is the benefit of claiming 9uy? I'm sure I don't have to remind anyone that 9uy has 5-6 gates ... meaning that attackers can come and go from 2-3 directions and immediatly strike and move along 2) Do you really plan to spread out cva over r3 - 9uy - whatever pipe? One of CVA's most feared and best defensive weapons is their ability to swiftly form a gang capable of sweeping away the nme (blobbing but sounds so nasty) 3) 9uy as you have said has 55 moones. To make sure the system remains your you need to have over half of the moons possed up.... This is an enormous logistic effort All in all i'm really curious and interested how CVA will protect this newly aquired asset. looking forward to fighting cva gangs more ;) btw if you wanna rap , pls do it properly ... that munnin killmail form today was a real suprise :p Have No Fear , I Is Here
O'Ran BloodStorm Elite Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:09:00 - [89] wow, great read! Many grats to CVA for the victory. Ive pretty much grown up in Providence (ex-NOS memember, moved away from provi now) and the politics down there are so interesting. The conflict between CVA and UK has been going on my whole eve life. Its weird seeing it come to an end, espically after all those alerts in CVA/NOS space. Good show by both sides :) I hope UK still continue to fight for what they believe in! ----- My views do not represent the views of my Corporation or Alliance.
Ackaroth Gallente Plundering Penguins	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:13:00 - [90] Amazing write-up. Hardin, as always, you have a way with words. Your signature is inappropriate for our forums. Please send a link to it to [email protected] if you have any questions - Timmeh

Raane Thyandar Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:14:00 - [91] Why do everyone's killboards add up to make them look like the winner? Because it's a event people want to remember when they make a kill and it's an event people would rather and sometimes accidentally do forget when they get killed (also there's the whole thing about cross-killboard coordination when multiple alliances are involved). At the end of the day, no-one really cares about efficiency or killboards for anything more than depicting the size of the conflict. It's not a dig, i'm just lazy and dislike killboards. [/rant] Also, good show CVA, good show and good spirit UK. Wish i could have thrown more fuel on the fires of war but i've been inactive recently.
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:24:00 - [92] Originally by: Raane Thyandar Why do everyone's killboards add up to make them look like the winner? Because it's a event people want to remember when they make a kill and it's an event people would rather and sometimes accidentally do forget when they get killed (also there's the whole thing about cross-killboard coordination when multiple alliances are involved). At the end of the day, no-one really cares about efficiency or killboards for anything more than depicting the size of the conflict. It's not a dig, i'm just lazy and dislike killboards. [/rant] That was my point Raane. However given Hardin posted stats I felt I couldn't leave it without balancing it with some of U'K's own. ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
Gabriel Death Caldari Pog Mo Thoin SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:24:00 - [93] true, that is all that matters the event, killboards do not matter.
Sacul Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:30:00 - [94] Edited by: Sacul on 07/06/2007 01:31:04 damn so much has happened since i have last been there.....allways enjoyed fighting CVA. grats on the station capture. Any Huzzah left? i so loved fighting them and Hans was ace. edit: ermm offcource hans was a back stabbing bastard opening that cyno for enemies in h74 after a eve meet in london :) ~i cant be a revisionist in history now can i :) The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones!
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:57:00 - [95] Amarr victor! Delictum 23216 Official forums
Royaldo Gallente KVA Noble Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.07 01:58:00 - [96] the jade is strong in hardin gg cva
Sqalevon Masuat'aa Matari	Posted - 2007.06.07 02:04:00 - [97] The problem with killmails is. Killmails get shared across mixed gangs, deathmails dont. Lets imagine 2 fleets of 10 ships engaging each other. Both fleets are a mix of 4 different alliances with their own killboards. Both fleets loose 4 ships evenly spread over the 4 different alliances. Now what you will see is, every alliance will have the killmails of all their hostiles but only their own deathmail. This will result in 4:1 kill ratios while they are actually at 1:1 I believe this to be the core of the problem.
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.07 02:35:00 - [98] You are correct Sqalevon. So each side can field impressive numbers, but it takes a more wholistic look to see the real end result. That's ok, I hope all had fun.
Katz Minmatar Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.06.07 03:13:00 - [99] I may not agree with what the CVA represents to my brethren, but I must congratulate you on a fantastic read Hardin all the same! Both sides of the conflict should be proud of what they have done. A legendary battle was fought and both sides won by adding so much more depth to the RP community and the views they fight for. I for one anxiously wait to see how the story unfolds further. Katz Sanctuary is recruiting
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 04:12:00 - [100] Edited by: Hardin on 07/06/2007 04:21:57 Originally by: Karn Mithralia I do wonder what the point of posting kill board stats is tbh, if 55 death stars doesn't sum up the scale of this conflict then I don't know what does. I agree with you to some extent and there was some debate about including figures however I felt that they demonstrated to the 'wider' community that this was not just about POS wars but that a LOT of pew pew went on as well - and I did make it clear that the figures were simply what was on the CVA killboard and should be taken with a pinch of salt. A pure comparison with your figures is impossible as mine are just from 9UY and as I stated did not include the XR fight. However, I think the fact that you report 687 losses across Providence when I reported at least 1,196 'enemy' deaths (just to CVA in 9UY) and similarly you report 1,305 total kills in Providence when our (CVA) losses appear to be only 448 is a good indication of how much salt needs to be thrown by both sides Unless we merge killboards the true 'result' will never be known. As I said above the point wasn't really to measure anyones epeen (or prove how uber CVA was) but simply to demonstrate that a crap load more went into this than just 'pos spamming'. I will, however, correct you on the capitals jibe, it was 7 vs 2 not 7 vs 1 and I will be happy to tell you which two ingame if you want further detail but no need to name names here Originally by: Karn Mithralia The other point I'd like to challenge is you stating we are now forced out of Providence. I would imagine you mean we have lost Unity and don't look to be going to regain sov in 9UY. However NKB alone still have several healthy death stars both in 9UY and other key positions, and if I read incoming reports correctly another alliance death star in 9UY was saved tonight. Until you wipe out our death stars I don't think you can claim you have driven us out. The area is far from secure. That is very true and I admire the fighting sentiment. It makes refreshing reading after seeing some of the UK doom and gloom in other quarters It is a message I will be sure to post on our internal forums to remind people that this is not all over yet ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR

Adam Weishaupt Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 04:59:00 - [101] Best writeup I've ever seen on these forums. Congratulations on the capture of 9UY.
Isabel Sweet Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.07 05:27:00 - [102] Amarr Victor! death to terrorist and the duct tape!
Indiria Fuentes Terra Rosa Militia	Posted - 2007.06.07 05:38:00 - [103] Thanks Hardin for this excellent writeup! That¦s the stuff that makes CAOD worth to be read;) regards Indiria
kirianne Kolaxy Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.06.07 05:43:00 - [104]
shuckstar Gallente Order of New Blood	Posted - 2007.06.07 05:47:00 - [105] Very nice write up, Gratz on taking 9UY Station
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 06:16:00 - [106] Yep fair enough. The various results certainly show how much fighting was had. Originally by: Hardin I will, however, correct you on the capitals jibe, it was 7 vs 2 not 7 vs 1 and I will be happy to tell you which two ingame if you want further detail but no need to name names here I've evemailed you, if I've made a mistake it wasn't purposeful. :) ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
Eddie Gordo Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 07:14:00 - [107] Originally by: Raane Thyandar Why do everyone's killboards add up to make them look like the winner? Easy. Because unless you have a central killboard for all allies and enemies you will only ever show your own losses, but allways all the allied kills. Karn was just showing our side. Now Recruiting
General Apocalypse Amarr Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.06.07 07:23:00 - [108] Nice posts it's good to see stuff like this on CAOD. Amarr Invictus And Hadrin for Emperor Thank You SkyFlyer
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.07 07:28:00 - [109] Impressive as always CVA, and excellent report Hardin. IAC's only real contribution to the amarr war effort was after CVA's capital shipyards were destroyed, had hoped we'd get to kill some dreads but U'K didn't commit them against any of the deathstars so all we got to do was shoot the large tower they erected and failed to online ;\ I'd say CVA and 0utbreak were real winners in this war, the sniper fleet 0utbreak can field is immense and they turned the tide of (nearly?) all the fights they showed up for.. Looks like the Empire might be adding another region soon.. http://eve.klaki.net/
Amith Silvermoon The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.07 07:31:00 - [110] Great write up Hardin was a pleasure to read. On behalf of all of bum i can safely say good fight CVA and Co. You have proven to be worthly foe's and we are looking forward to have more fun with you in the near future. To our allie's who came to UK aid(EHN Outbreak Evoke etc)was a pleasure fighting along side each of you. To UK it was a agreement that Bum would not be dragged into a POS fight for anyone apart for you guy's. We only wish we could have done more and maybe even save Unity but it was not to be. ---------- Everyday Combat - A Littlest Hobos Movie

Terror Rising Death Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2007.06.07 08:07:00 - [111] Nice Write-Up. But be aware, Unity will be back in the hands of our brothers and sisters who oppose the tyrany of the Empire before this year is up. Down with the Empire!
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.07 08:15:00 - [112] Originally by: Amith Silvermoon To UK it was a agreement that Bum would not be dragged into a POS fight for anyone apart for you guy's. We only wish we could have done more and maybe even save Unity but it was not to be. This is very true. When we left ISS a lot of us stated quite simply 'no POS war again, ever' since it was all we had known for months. But we did make an internal agreement that the only people we would get involved in a POS war for, commit capitals etc, was UK. I like to think the result, in the end, was pretty good. CVA suffered enough losses and spent enough ISK on deathstars, that they have paid a high enough price for taking the outpost (probably more than building a new one, which I know isnt the point but its a good indicator). The defence, from that perspective, was pretty successful, though I always knew CVA would take it eventually (and I said as much on here after the first weekend). They lived in Providence after all, and we all know from past example that they are patient and determined. As for the game mechanics, I don't have a problem with this. Its a valid, if boring, way of capturing a system. Now, however, with everyone free from POS warfare, its time for Providence to burn ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Mast'loh	Posted - 2007.06.07 08:45:00 - [113] Die, you slaver scum !! Pos Exploiters! We will be always free!!
Zor Green Segunda Fundacion O X I D E	Posted - 2007.06.07 09:54:00 - [114] Great report! It¦s very nice to read a well written and complete story
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:22:00 - [115] Originally by: Eddie Gordo Originally by: Raane Thyandar Why do everyone's killboards add up to make them look like the winner? Easy. Because unless you have a central killboard for all allies and enemies you will only ever show your own losses, but allways all the allied kills. Karn was just showing our side. Now there's an idea - a central killboard :P Although people probably don't want one as they are an excellent tool to gather intel. Very, very nice writeup, Hardin. It was an honor (although mindnumbingly boring at times, especially during the nights) to be part of the campaign. CVA ops are always extremly well coordinated and led. Many kudos to the FCs. And a big hug and kudos to the Ushra'Khan. I have seen the war from it's very beginnings and most of the time it's been a great ride. It's crazy how it has changed from something about a hundred people were involved in into epic proportions. Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
Kade Jeekin Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 10:47:00 - [116] Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 07/06/2007 10:47:16 Originally by: Hardin Edited by: Hardin on 06/06/2007 17:25:51[Ushra'Khan losers are]...no doubt extremely depressed and bitter... I, and many others in Ushra'Khan, are niether depressed nor bitter and resent the implied [Edit: blanket] critisism. Perhaps, you could have worded it better but it was a long post and your diplomacy may, understandably, have become a little frayed. Now stop being so lazy and post something IC so that I can respond to you properly. Enough of this OOC metagaming. --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------
Golan Trevize Amarr Faderhuset	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:15:00 - [117] From:Medusa Archon Class Carrier. Location:Ogaria. Commander:Admiral Trevize-RET. Exellent work CVA , again and again you suprise , though i have never doubted the outcome of this campaign. Amarr Victor. The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:19:00 - [118] Its been a long fight and I am glad to have been a small part of it. Amarr Victor!! ----
BLAIYNE Shadow Play	Posted - 2007.06.07 11:20:00 - [119] Excellent write-up, and very well written. It's great to see that the RP'ing comunity is alive and kicking in amongst all the OOC turmoil that has beset Eve recently. Good job to both parties.
kelvinnunn	Posted - 2007.06.07 14:03:00 - [120] well as a member of U'K i would like to take the unpresidented stance and congratulate you on a well written and somewhat unbiased post Hardin although it is hard to swallow you did get there in the end so well done HOWEVER all slavers will eventually die the Ushra'Khan will never go away look forward to seeing you in local and i suppose till then good luck(ish) on whatever else you take on

zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 14:51:00 - [121] Edited by: zoolkhan on 07/06/2007 14:51:39 My post is long and pointless - so i keep the most essential words in the first lines: a) good post hardin. thank you. doesnt **** me off at all. very fair. b) thanks to all current allies who turned up and aided us w/o asking for a reward just out of .. respect i guess. I am still stunned. And i hope we can uphold some wires to each other. I am seriously touched and i certainly have slightly better balanced view on "the evil pirates" topic. (i am still anti-pirate by heart, but these guys rock) c) thanks to the slavers who gave me the only reason to login into eve over years my bitterness about the loss of unity is connected to the realisation that we cannot succsessfully fight this enemy anymore... which takes my motivation to log in But eve is addictive.. and this is not a farewell yet. Now comes the unimportant rant from a old dread pilot who saw this enitire siege only through the window of a 1-fps mac-client and a cellphone gprs internet connection: Nice writing old foe, you skipped the tiny fact that we too lost 6 dreads during the siege of QR - which is you admitted in your own case, IS a blow for any alliance... bah, thank you for this post though. To me it looked unbalanced and quiet fair. Also nice to learn that you too had some difficulties... within UK the myth grows that youre not humans It was sad to lose the war against haulers (pos spam) - especially since i had the feeling you could have won it also by traditional means. the "hauler warfare" is where we lost our spirit. We simply dont have the manpower to sustain the logistic challenge this was not the kind war we wanted to fight, nor our allies as for the option of uk fading away.. haha.. i think that will never happen:) Throwing our alliance against PIE corporation in empire? This does violate my own feeligns of fairplay (this is ooc forum i assume) I am used to be outnumbered, what would a victory against a smaller entity mean? What kind of respect would that earn? so - i guess i am personally not keen on riding PIE in empire ... fighting at npc stations like years ago... that tastes all so weird and strange and false .. i guess i turned into a 0.0 person and i need a 0.0 roleplay to sustain my motivation. But the only 0.0 RP target has grown to a unbeatable entity for us (w/o help) - hit and run against you may be the way to go.. but we would never win wars, maybe battles - but we would never win a war this way. Once in my eve live only once - i would really very much like to be on the winning side. Other people with that feeling would just leave and join... some big player that is winning all the time. But i hate too easy ways ;) uniting the matari tribes? i always wanted to do that - in fact u'k was that - we united the matari tribes of the time. New clans arose, but they preferr to support amarr by supporting the republic. I have little hope they want to enter our intense world of fighting to the bones... U'K is now homeless and jobless - but the general objective to fight slaver opression will keep dominating our mind... as i posted elsewhere, show must go on - the stage may be a different one. Thanks for a long lasting good time CVA, after days of pondering i conclude you do deserve the victory. I just disagree with UK deserving the loss ... Zool U'K recruit! ..we come for our people..
Elliott Manchild omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.07 15:15:00 - [122] Edited by: Elliott Manchild on 07/06/2007 15:14:06 Very nice read! Sounds like was fun. I miss providence :) Was reading it the other day and only got half way through it and you nearly made me loose my mach thanks to not watching EVE. Your sig is too big, maximum size is 24000 bytes. Email us at [email protected] if you have any questions. - Devil Leave me be you evil mods =[
Sevarus James Minmatar Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.07 15:25:00 - [123] Helluva read Hardin, helluva read. Yet again why 4 years on this VR place still has the power to make me forget r/l whilst here. This minnie salutes you OOC, but IC, I'd say.........drat. Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE
Amantus Gallente Murientor Tribe Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:14:00 - [124] A+ post, would read posts by author in future. Seriously though, it's nice to see a balanced post that doesn't just fling verbal doo-doo at the opposition. CVA were and still are great enemies to fight. Congratulations for taking Unity and take good care of it Amantus ------------
Nuyan Zahedi Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.07 17:20:00 - [125] Amarr Victor. I haven't attended to that many operations in the Providence, but I had fun. It was a little bit boring as tackler sometimes though and as Eve newbie I often was very confused about everything that was happening around me, but it was a very nice introduction to POS warfare in Eve. :) Originally by: Kade Jeekin Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 07/06/2007 10:47:16Now stop being so lazy and post something IC so that I can respond to you properly. Enough of this OOC metagaming. Hey, you're calling someone who just wrote the biggest Eve battle report of the year for the second time this year lazy? I agree though, an In Character announcement about the conclusion of Operation Deliverance would be welcome.
hal 5000 Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:30:00 - [126] First off, great post. Second, I refuse to get into the whole argument about pos spamming, or who are pirates and who are not. Maybe I should but I really don't care. All in all this was a great battle. Lots of fun was had, and this is from someone who got blown up a lot (ask cva). I met way more worthy opponents than morons and had way more fun than frustration. I am looking forward to our future engagements as I am sure they will be a 180 degree change for everyone involved. I tip my hat to CVA and friends for their bravery and there persistence. I will never agree with your politics or policies toward the enslavement of others but at the same time I have a place in my heart for dedicated warriors. I look forward to aiming at you again soon. -Hal
Hobsbawn Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated	Posted - 2007.06.07 18:51:00 - [127] Originally by: Amith Silvermoon Great write up Hardin was a pleasure to read. On behalf of all of bum i can safely say good fight CVA and Co. You have proven to be worthly foe's and we are looking forward to have more fun with you in the near future. To our allie's who came to UK aid(EHN Outbreak Evoke etc)was a pleasure fighting along side each of you. To UK it was a agreement that Bum would not be dragged into a POS fight for anyone apart for you guy's. We only wish we could have done more and maybe even save Unity but it was not to be. Our allies were superb, we learnt alot from them. Good write up Hardin. Some of the battle still leaves a bitter taste, but whats done is done and we must move on or waste away. Lets see what the next 12 months brings for U'K. Hobs Are you ready to testify?
Calypso's Wrath Caldari Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.06.07 19:05:00 - [128] Nice battle report. An Amarr Providence will BURN. Our ranks have swelled; our newer members are getting battle experience from your pilots in your home systems and Black Watch is killing slavers. YOU WILL see us in your systems. WE WILL be razing your resources. CVA has paid for Providence with their blood and that is not going to stop. Providence will be the hole in your wallets for a long time to come. IF you think you were beseeched by pirates before, you ainÆt seen nothinÆ yet. UK 0> My brothers, good fighting along side you. I hope things work out if you leave, otherwise see you in gangà keep in touch, you have allies in BWL.
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.07 20:37:00 - [129] Just to clarify, we may evacuate our treasures to a certain extend. But we are not leaving yet:) CVA may have to pay for every inch and every pos they attempt to take down. And who knows, maybe .... just maybe... U'K recruit! ..we come for our people..
CiderKing Gallente Perpetua Umbra Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.06.07 21:01:00 - [130] Good job CVA. BOS has moved on from Providence, but we still support you. -Cider

steamy The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.07 22:01:00 - [131] Edited by: steamy on 07/06/2007 21:59:46 Great read Hardin, looking forward to the next chapter. Cheers, Steamy If you only look at the road ahead, Life isn't worth the trip -- Dante
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.06.07 22:41:00 - [132] nice write up and KILL THE MATAR rawr
Saul Dhampir Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.06.07 23:33:00 - [133] A very balanced, fare, respectful and infomative account. Good to see and read. Saul Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Varheg Xan The Graduates	Posted - 2007.06.08 00:08:00 - [134] "Boo! Hiss!" on the final result, but nice write up as always, Hardin. =VX=
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.06.08 00:23:00 - [135] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: zoolkhan Throwing our alliance against PIE corporation in empire? This does violate my own feeligns of fairplay (this is ooc forum i assume) I am used to be outnumbered, what would a victory against a smaller entity mean? What kind of respect would that earn? so - i guess i am personally not keen on riding PIE in empire ... fighting at npc stations like years ago... We'd love to see more U'K in the core systems. I'm not sure that we could give you many fun fights if you all turned up at once though. We paid so you could have the pleasure of shooting us in core Amarr but you rarely came out to play Anyhow, I am sure this is only the very beginning of this war. Nice writeup, Hardin. I look forward to how the conflict continues. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.08 15:34:00 - [136] Edited by: Hardin on 08/06/2007 15:33:17 Originally by: zoolkhan CVA may have to pay for every inch and every pos they attempt to take down. And who knows, maybe .... just maybe... Please don't start the 'third great siege of 9UY' so shortly after we finished the 2nd. Lot's of people need some sleep ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Lady Summerrain Gallente Grettistak	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:38:00 - [137] Wow congratz CVA, but Harden, I have a small question. Since when is NOS a "friendly" local alliance, and not a valued ally? Is that the reason Fang alliance was allowed to take over sov in FSW? Has anyone told NOS that they are no longer a CVA ally, just a local friendly alliance? Well anyway gratz Look ma, no hands!
Aindrias Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.06.08 16:51:00 - [138] Edited by: Aindrias on 08/06/2007 16:51:51 Edited by: Aindrias on 08/06/2007 16:51:21 Originally by: Lady Summerrain Wow congratz CVA, but Harden, I have a small question. Since when is NOS a "friendly" local alliance, and not a valued ally? Is that the reason Fang alliance was allowed to take over sov in FSW? Has anyone told NOS that they are no longer a CVA ally, just a local friendly alliance? Well anyway gratz On the contrary, FANG was allowed FSW due to a past agreement made. NOS was always teetering on keeping that system or not due to it's difficult defensive issues (multiple pipe leading into it, no real economic value either). NOS was more than willing to fight FANG and CVA and Sylph were ready as well. The agreement was equitable to all parties involved. As far as I'm concerned, CVA and NOS are FRIENDS and Keepers of Providence. I'd rather be called a FRIEND than an Ally anyways, it's much more warm and fuzzy. Friends I'd never leave in a bad spot, allies.. well.. when the going gets too rough.. LOL See what you can do with Paintbrush?
Pouncer Minmatar Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:14:00 - [139] Though I'm no longer with the Brotherhood of Steel, I thought others (however few) might want to know more about its participation (or lack thereof) in this conflict. Taking a cue from Hardin, I'll start from the (or rather, my) beginning... As a relative noob, I joined BOS and made my first trip out to 0.0 in a Rifter last September. Within days, I started seeing large red balls of 50-100 ships appear next to (or on) my path of travel, and hightailed it back to empire space. Needless to say, I was somewhat mystified when the more experienced members of my alliance hopped in their ships and headed straight toward the fight! It wasn't until I read Seleene's battle report on this forum that I understood we had joined UK, ISS, and MC in an epic struggle against a swarm of pirates in 9UY. Wanting to be in on the next big fight, I quickly learned how to separate the good guys (UK, ISS, IAC, AXE, and Sylph) from the bad guys (CVA and pirates), and joined every training raid into CVA space that I could. Over the following months, amid struggles with various pirates, I became grateful for the gallant, undemanding, (though somewhat aloof) UK pilots I frequently encountered. When UK, ISS, and MC once again went to war (against IAC), I expected another call to arms, but to the best of my knowledge, no one ever asked for our help. Perhaps that was for the best, as many in our alliance thought it was a stupid blue-on-blue conflict. Fast forward a bit, and I find myself leading a quickly assembled force to defend a small POS from AXE, who was attacking former friends in the wake of its capitulation to -A-. We were completely outclassed, and a nearby UK fleet of 40+ ships was bottled up by a CVA fleet of 50+ ships in 9UY, so there was only one thing left to do - abandon the POS and go help UK. Unfortunately, there was some kind of snafu with UK's understanding of their RP based ROE, so they blocked us from their gang and TS server (something we had joined many times in the past). As a result, our dozen or so EW ships jumped on top of CVA at the same time UK disengaged from the battle, and our entire force was wiped out. We didn't hold it against them though - battle is always risky - and we knew BOS wouldn't exist in Providence if it wasn't for UK's generous help. Next up was the campaign against NOS - something we didn't even know about until several UK pilots failed to show up for a regularly scheduled multi-alliance patrol we conducted. I reoriented our patrol force to go help, but the entire campaign was called off before we got the voice-comms sorted out (they were using Imperial Order's server this time for some unknown reason instead of UK's traditional server). At this point I should mention that BOS was a rather small, disorganized industrial alliance that had been ravaged by higher skilled, more experienced, and better equipped pirate groups since the start of the year - to the point that corps were dropping out and the alliance was sundering from acrimonious debates about a lack of leadership and what responsibilities industrialists had towards PVPers (and visa versa). As part of the resulting re-org, I put forward a military plan that both sides of the debate found acceptable, and (despite limits to my available playtime) was ultimately appointed senior admiral (I don't think anyone else wanted the job). Unfortunately, within days of my appointment, BOS was hit with two wardecs, and CVA began its assault on Karishal's Defiance. Once again, due to limited resources (time in this case), I had to set aside the less important issues (our military re-org and the two wardecs) in order to focus on the big one: CVA's large-scale invasion of UK space.
Pouncer Minmatar Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:15:00 - [140] When I got in touch with my UK military contact, I was told they had been hammered hard, morale was falling, and they were having trouble replacing lost ships and POSes. So, I grabbed the richest guys in our alliance and they offered free ships, fuel, supplies, isk, and carrier support on the spot. Then I started an inventory of everyone in the alliance who was willing to fight, what ships they could fly, when they were online, etc. Days passed with no instruction from UK on where to put our stuff, so I got in touch with my contact and discovered he had quit the alliance. So... we went straight to the top and were given access to op planning channels, a copy of the battle plan, proposed ship fittings, and a contact for any assets we could donate to the cause. Because UK is primarily Euro based, they never run ops when I'm online, so I gave their designated individual a roster of every pilot who responded to my survey (and a few more besides) - with the ships they could fly, roles they could fill, times they were online, and any other contribution they could make. I also mentioned that any BOS pilot not on the list would probably help out as well - all UK had to do was ask. Two days before the first scheduled offensive to retake Karishal's Defiance, I gave our volunteers UK's fitting requests and told them to get their ships out to Unity station ASAP, but did not tell them when, how, or why they would be used - in order to maintain operational security. A few hours before the op started, I told them to join the designated gang recruitment channel and await further instruction from UK command - again, without giving a specific time or other details, in order to maintain operational security. When I finally logged on that evening (some ten or so hours after the op was scheduled to begin), I discovered our guys had been in the recruitment channel all day long without being asked to do anything - apparently the op was abandoned when CVA showed up with a larger fleet than UK expected. Later that night, I discovered (while helping Alois Hammer conduct an entertaining yet pointless mini POS-spam in QR) that UK had in fact anchored a POS in the system, but it was rather small and not part of the scheduled offensive. This process was to continue throughout the campaign - whenever we were given a scheduled time, the op would be canceled. When ops actually went forward, we wouldn't find out until later that evening - with the typical result being that UK had once again been crushed by CVA. To the best of my knowledge, UK did not respond to any of the offers we made (free ships, minerals, isk, fuel, etc.), and none of the pilots on the roster I provided were ever asked to help, nor were any of our pilots in the gang recruitment channel ever invited to an operation. Shortly after the war began, Imperial Order abandoned UK, and we started hearing from various sources (both inside and outside UK) that BUM, Chaos Incarnate, and The Star Fraction had withdrawn from further offensives with UK due to disagreements with each other and the way UK was conducting its operations. In between critiques of UK battle plans (don't put cloaks on sniping BSes, don't use T1 Minmatar guns for sniping, etc.) BUM commanders in the op planning channel would chuckle about the Sylph pilots they were killing.

Pouncer Minmatar Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:17:00 - [141] At this point, I should mention that a CVA ship had been visiting BOS space regularly for at least a month, inquiring ("unofficially" I think) about the possibility of a neutrality pact. We typically destroyed it out of hand, but after seeing UK's allies jump ship, I contacted a UK FC and informed him that while they had the support of our old guard, if they didn't get their act together, start winning some battles, and stop driving away their more experienced pilots and allies, the newer players in our alliance would press to accept CVA's offer. His ("personal") response / opinion was essentially: 1) Good riddance - those pilots and alliances were worthless anyway. 2) UK doesn't need additional resources - it has more than enough to keep fighting. 3) There's no way CVA would be able to take 9UY. 4) Things are getting better and about to change "real soon now," even though it may not be apparent to outsiders. 5) Do what you have to do. Before this conversation, my opinion was that UK's chances of winning the war were slim, but after it (given the state of denial about the situation they were in) I knew they were going to lose. It was around this time that my plans to begin raiding CVA space were put on hold because the BOS senate wanted to limit military operations to helping UK protect its current space and retake Karishal's Defiance while negotiations began with CVA. Not much later, I received a request from UK for all the dreads we could spare. Unfortunately, our dread pilots had purchased their ships before training the skills necessary for POS warfare, so I told UK we would have to provide carriers and support craft instead. Apparently that wasn't the right answer, because they once again went into battle without informing us, and managed to lose 7 dreads during the fight to a multi-player "systems crash" (that somehow didn't affect CVA). Following this loss, the war paused for a while, and BOS went back to what it seemingly does best - dying at the hands of Einherjar Rising (ENH). During this time, there was a protracted debate about our involvement in the UK-CVA war. A mostly old-guard / pvp contingent within BOS was willing to go down in flames with UK for the sake of honor, but eventually lost out to a more pragmatic group who wondered why the alliance should sacrifice itself over an RP war between two anti-pirate groups when it was pirates like ENH that were our primary problem.
Pouncer Minmatar Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:19:00 - [142] Eventually it was decided we would keep UK blue, set CVA neutral, ignore any demands the latter might make, and remove ourselves from the conflict. Some time after that, BOS was in for a shock - our primary nemesis, ENH, had been invited to UK's shared anti-piracy intel channel. The introduction was something I, and many other BOS pilots, will never forget: Sapphrine > channel changed for ENH in channel Green Halo > oh dear TRGr > huh?there haev been ENH in channel? or you're letting them in? Mistress Suffering > I believe I am the first to have been in this channel now. Mistress Suffering > Has not been any prior. Avious Tylepthine > hey its enh in unite-now 3 days ago I would have killed someone over this Green Halo > lol Mistress Suffering > Don't worry, we're still the same cheerful friendly types we were before. Green Halo > Good to hear :P Alois Hammer > lol TRGr > lol Avious Tylepthine > I guess this means your not killing BoS anymore right? Mistress Suffering > No, BoS is being removed. Avious Tylepthine > what do you mean? Sapphrine > u'k, any questions, ask your councilors UK then stood idly by as ENH put several BOS towers into reinforced mode. A call went out to IAC and CVA for help. IAC, who we hadn't really interacted with for months due to their war with UK, immediately offered us sanctuary in their space. CVA, our long-standing enemy, who had every reason to believe this was some sort of elaborate UK-BOS ruse to ambush their capital ships, immediately sent several carriers to rep our shields, and put a fleet on standby in case we needed it for additional support. With the addition of a somewhat mealy-mouthed response from Maggot about what was going on between UK and ENH, the BOS senate voted with uncharacteristic speed to set UK red. That sort of morphed into orange, as many BOS pilots were still conflicted in their feelings toward UK (e.g., I let several UK ships that appeared to be evacuating from Unity station pass unmolested through a gatecamp in Y-MPWL). Nevertheless, BOS' long-standing friendship with UK is at an end, and the alliance has decided to leave Providence. And those UK pilots we've flown with this past year who wonder why BOS pilots interject cries of "Amarr Victor!" in threads like this now know the rest of the story.
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.08 17:29:00 - [143] Its nice that you guys have fun there. I for one hope that BOB and your alliances can come to some sort of arrangement when the time comes. Keep it up guys. Like to see some RP for once and not serious business.
Niding Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:17:00 - [144] Edited by: Niding on 08/06/2007 18:16:12 Nice writeup Pouncer. Always intresting to see the conflict/history from someone elses perspective. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself
Lady Summerrain Gallente Grettistak	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:18:00 - [145] thats cool Andrias, but does not answer my question, Harden did not say CVA and NOS were friends, he said NOS was one of the "friendly local alliances". And that was my point. I thought NOS and CVA were allies. If that is not so, then when did that happen, and does the NOS leadership and membership know about it. And the FANG thing was nothing more then a hostile takeover of your space, call it what you may. They moved in, you started to fight, and then gave it up. 1 day. Why didn't CVA help it's friend there? This whole 9UY fight would never have been possible without the many, many small alliances and individuelles who fought and lost ships protecting CVA's hold in prov. This is just my thoughts on CVA's win over UK, but my question about NOS remains. Look ma, no hands!
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:20:00 - [146] Originally by: Lady Summerrain Wow congratz CVA, but Harden, I have a small question. At least you didnt mistype his name Hardon, you must never do that! ;) ----------------------------------------------
Eddie Gordo Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:22:00 - [147] Originally by: Gaius Kador Originally by: Lady Summerrain Wow congratz CVA, but Harden, I have a small question. At least you didnt mistype his name Hardon, you must never do that! ;) You do realise thats all he is EVER going to get called now. Now Recruiting
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:24:00 - [148] Congrats CVA on a system well deserved. You guys had the money, power, skill, and well people to pull it off. It just goes to show how much of a fight it was that you only were able to claim it this far after the initial siege. It's a bit saddening that sov changed hands like that soley based on faulty game mechanics though. But this isn't for an instant the beginning of a "peace" in providence.
WackyPlayer	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:31:00 - [149] Edited by: WackyPlayer on 08/06/2007 18:30:26 Edited by: WackyPlayer on 08/06/2007 18:30:14
Lady Summerrain Gallente Grettistak	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:31:00 - [150] lol, sorry I am not the best typest, but my point is valid. Look ma, no hands!

Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:32:00 - [151] Originally by: Eddie Gordo Originally by: Gaius Kador Originally by: Lady Summerrain Wow congratz CVA, but Harden, I have a small question. At least you didnt mistype his name Hardon, you must never do that! ;) You do realise thats all he is EVER going to get called now. Stay on-topic dog, or I'll whip your granma :p ----------------------------------------------
Silvestri Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:32:00 - [152] That has got to be the longest report ever. Was a good one though. It was more of a battle report of the southern area down there. IAC vs. ISS...memories...MC invasion. What fun. Congrats on 9UY.
WackyPlayer	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:33:00 - [153] Edited by: WackyPlayer on 08/06/2007 18:31:59 delete please
Calypso's Wrath Caldari Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.06.08 18:47:00 - [154] Originally by: Aindrias Edited by: Aindrias on 08/06/2007 16:51:51 Edited by: Aindrias on 08/06/2007 16:51:21 Originally by: Lady Summerrain Wow congratz CVA, but Harden, I have a small question. Since when is NOS a "friendly" local alliance, and not a valued ally? Is that the reason Fang alliance was allowed to take over sov in FSW? Has anyone told NOS that they are no longer a CVA ally, just a local friendly alliance? Well anyway gratz On the contrary, FANG was allowed FSW due to a past agreement made. NOS was always teetering on keeping that system or not due to it's difficult defensive issues (multiple pipe leading into it, no real economic value either). NOS was more than willing to fight FANG and CVA and Sylph were ready as well. The agreement was equitable to all parties involved. As far as I'm concerned, CVA and NOS are FRIENDS and Keepers of Providence. I'd rather be called a FRIEND than an Ally anyways, it's much more warm and fuzzy. Friends I'd never leave in a bad spot, allies.. well.. when the going gets too rough.. LOL when the going gets too rough... Your corp mates POS up?
Eveliddia Amarr The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.08 19:04:00 - [155] Originally by: Calypso's Wrath Originally by: Aindrias Edited by: Aindrias on 08/06/2007 16:51:51 Edited by: Aindrias on 08/06/2007 16:51:21 Originally by: Lady Summerrain Wow congratz CVA, but Harden, I have a small question. Since when is NOS a "friendly" local alliance, and not a valued ally? Is that the reason Fang alliance was allowed to take over sov in FSW? Has anyone told NOS that they are no longer a CVA ally, just a local friendly alliance? Well anyway gratz On the contrary, FANG was allowed FSW due to a past agreement made. NOS was always teetering on keeping that system or not due to it's difficult defensive issues (multiple pipe leading into it, no real economic value either). NOS was more than willing to fight FANG and CVA and Sylph were ready as well. The agreement was equitable to all parties involved. As far as I'm concerned, CVA and NOS are FRIENDS and Keepers of Providence. I'd rather be called a FRIEND than an Ally anyways, it's much more warm and fuzzy. Friends I'd never leave in a bad spot, allies.. well.. when the going gets too rough.. LOL when the going gets too rough... Your corp mates POS up? Not sure about you but when the going gets tough.... I stay cloaked
Calypso's Wrath Caldari Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.06.08 19:18:00 - [156] Eveliddia, i hear ya.. I should follow that mantra, :( I lost 3 arazu's last month.
CiderKing Gallente Perpetua Umbra Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.06.08 20:31:00 - [157] Originally by: Pouncer Eventually it was decided we would keep UK blue, set CVA neutral, ignore any demands the latter might make, and remove ourselves from the conflict. Some time after that, BOS was in for a shock - our primary nemesis, ENH, had been invited to UK's shared anti-piracy intel channel. The introduction was something I, and many other BOS pilots, will never forget: Sapphrine > channel changed for ENH in channel Green Halo > oh dear TRGr > huh?there haev been ENH in channel? or you're letting them in? Mistress Suffering > I believe I am the first to have been in this channel now. Mistress Suffering > Has not been any prior. Avious Tylepthine > hey its enh in unite-now 3 days ago I would have killed someone over this Green Halo > lol Mistress Suffering > Don't worry, we're still the same cheerful friendly types we were before. Green Halo > Good to hear :P Alois Hammer > lol TRGr > lol Avious Tylepthine > I guess this means your not killing BoS anymore right? Mistress Suffering > No, BoS is being removed. Avious Tylepthine > what do you mean? Sapphrine > u'k, any questions, ask your councilors UK then stood idly by as ENH put several BOS towers into reinforced mode. A call went out to IAC and CVA for help. IAC, who we hadn't really interacted with for months due to their war with UK, immediately offered us sanctuary in their space. CVA, our long-standing enemy, who had every reason to believe this was some sort of elaborate UK-BOS ruse to ambush their capital ships, immediately sent several carriers to rep our shields, and put a fleet on standby in case we needed it for additional support. With the addition of a somewhat mealy-mouthed response from Maggot about what was going on between UK and ENH, the BOS senate voted with uncharacteristic speed to set UK red. That sort of morphed into orange, as many BOS pilots were still conflicted in their feelings toward UK (e.g., I let several UK ships that appeared to be evacuating from Unity station pass unmolested through a gatecamp in Y-MPWL). Nevertheless, BOS' long-standing friendship with UK is at an end, and the alliance has decided to leave Providence. And those UK pilots we've flown with this past year who wonder why BOS pilots interject cries of "Amarr Victor!" in threads like this now know the rest of the story. Ah, I miss your write-ups Pouncer! (BOS lost 3 towers to ENH after the NAP with U'K btw) BOS has indeed left that section of space, too much drama, not enough good ore/rats :) Special thanks to IAC for letting us live in Catch. Special thanks to ENH, you guys are very good at what you do, and I'd like to think some of us learned from you. (Playing with FIX has shown I did atleast. ) -Cider
Aindrias Amarr Fomus-Amarr Industrial Novus Ordos Seclorum	Posted - 2007.06.08 20:41:00 - [158] Quote: when the going gets too rough... your corpmates put POS's up I don't understand =-( LOL Soon.. yes... soon... cloaker of DOOM! ;-) See what you can do with Paintbrush?
Isyel Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.08 20:45:00 - [159] Aw.. Sounds like an epic struggle indeed. Hm, one one hand i'm extremely happy stuff actually moved a bit down there, that struggle was stagnating for too long. Maybe being driven out for the moment will cause a shift in the U'K and make them return to kick Amarr arses on a whole new level. Who knows, who knows. On the other hand it's kind of ironic you're trying so hard to eradicate one of the rare groups willing to actively rp with you all the time and don't get tired of some of your.. uhm.. less rp-adept people, to put it nicely. Good luck to the U'K, may you come back in force and kick them out already, they become a bit tiresom after a while when they settle down. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Scaramouche Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.08 21:07:00 - [160] Edited by: Scaramouche on 08/06/2007 21:06:35 Ok, so now we've read the book...when is the dvd available? .............................................................................................. Remember, only dead fish and broken sticks go with the flow.

Yakov Draken Minmatar The Newb Patrol Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.08 22:13:00 - [161] A sad day indeed. Well fought all. Originally by: zoolkhan b) thanks to all current allies who turned up and aided us w/o asking for a reward just out of .. respect i guess. I am still stunned. And i hope we can uphold some wires to each other. I am seriously touched and i certainly have slightly better balanced view on "the evil pirates" topic. (i am still anti-pirate by heart, but these guys rock) I think the U'K should learn a lesson here. Anti-piracy is a distraction when the real issue is the slavers. Originally by: zoolkhan uniting the matari tribes? i always wanted to do that - in fact u'k was that - we united the matari tribes of the time. New clans arose, but they preferr to support amarr by supporting the republic. QFT The new clans also focused on anti-piracy over anti-slaver. IMO anti-piracy is a hold over from anti-pk rpers and a major distraction, if not the major distraction, from the real issue facing the Matar. Good luck for the future U'K. I hope one day to fight by your side against the slavers.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.09 08:17:00 - [162] Originally by: Yakov Draken IMO anti-piracy is a hold over from anti-pk rpers and a major distraction, if not the major distraction, from the real issue facing the Matar. Good luck for the future U'K. I hope one day to fight by your side against the slavers. Ah but you see for the Amarr side 'anti-piracy' has always been a stong 'uniter' of the various Amarr RP groups because of our belief in 'protecting the Empire'. I think unconsciously that thinking spilled over to the Minnie side. I can see why Minmatar groups may be better off not being involved in smiting piracy or indeed working with pirates (they are 'terrorists' after all. The only problem with that is it is kinda hard to 'recruit' to your cause when directly or indirectly you are shooting as many Minmatars as Amarrian. The only solution would be to base that piracy in an Amarr region but even that would still give the 'slaver' Amarrian a huge PR advantage because all the **ed off locals would gravitate to the 'law-bringing' Amarrians - as happened to a certain extent in Providence. ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR**
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia	Posted - 2007.06.09 08:52:00 - [163] Originally by: Hardin The only solution would be to base that piracy in an Amarr region but even that would still give the 'slaver' Amarrian a huge PR advantage because all the **ed off locals would gravitate to the 'law-bringing' Amarrians - as happened to a certain extent in Providence. A month ago, most corps and alliances in Providence would have never thought about offensively attacking UK. UK did their thing and CVA did theirs while everyone just took advantage of the "rent free" 0.0 space that CVA offered. It was funny to see that some groups out there taking advantage of CVA's space were almost hostile to them for stupid little reasons. When UK started to show up with known pirate organizations to raid and kill any nuetrals it **ed off alot of people. Evoke was understandable but BUM and Ein were not. Alot of those "friends" of CVA were people coming after UK because of the deals they made with local pirates. In their desperation to defend their territory, UK ended up smearing their own name with many of the non-affiliated locals living in both CVA and UK space. I found it very ironic that many of those groups were more than happy to raid R3/Misaba but rarely showed up for any sort of defense of 9uy. With great power comes great responsibility...and hawt cyborz!
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.09 08:59:00 - [164] Originally by: Keorythe Originally by: Hardin The only solution would be to base that piracy in an Amarr region but even that would still give the 'slaver' Amarrian a huge PR advantage because all the **ed off locals would gravitate to the 'law-bringing' Amarrians - as happened to a certain extent in Providence. A month ago, most corps and alliances in Providence would have never thought about offensively attacking UK. UK did their thing and CVA did theirs while everyone just took advantage of the "rent free" 0.0 space that CVA offered. It was funny to see that some groups out there taking advantage of CVA's space were almost hostile to them for stupid little reasons. When UK started to show up with known pirate organizations to raid and kill any nuetrals it **ed off alot of people. Evoke was understandable but BUM and Ein were not. Alot of those "friends" of CVA were people coming after UK because of the deals they made with local pirates. In their desperation to defend their territory, UK ended up smearing their own name with many of the non-affiliated locals living in both CVA and UK space. I found it very ironic that many of those groups were more than happy to raid R3/Misaba but rarely showed up for any sort of defense of 9uy. I find it funny someone who has never partaken in combat in Providence would try to act like his opinion mattered.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.09 09:04:00 - [165] Guys lets try and keep it polite... Unfortunately as you would expect on CAOD some people will take advantage of a post like this which was created to try and provide a relatively balanced picture (albeit from CVA perspective) to have a pop at CVA or UK. That was not what this thread was created for. So please unless you want to add some information (a bit like the chap from BOS did on the previous page) that gives everyone an insight into Providence politics (and hasn't been said already) then please try and avoid digs which will just instogate flames. Cheers ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Amandi Casimi Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.09 09:11:00 - [166] Anyone else notice that Hardin is one ugly bastard? :) Anyways... Fun fights, and I hope the raids from UK keep coming. I gotta have someone to kill. Let neutrals be neutrals.
Rawthorm Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2007.06.09 11:05:00 - [167] A very nice write up tho damm you, I missed a target I was laying in wait for while reading this shakes fist
LordAmarus Minmatar Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.09 12:23:00 - [168] Originally by: CiderKing Originally by: Pouncer Eventually it was decided we would keep UK blue, set CVA neutral, ignore any demands the latter might make, and remove ourselves from the conflict. Some time after that, BOS was in for a shock - our primary nemesis, ENH, had been invited to UK's shared anti-piracy intel channel. The introduction was something I, and many other BOS pilots, will never forget: Sapphrine > channel changed for ENH in channel Green Halo > oh dear TRGr > huh?there haev been ENH in channel? or you're letting them in? Mistress Suffering > I believe I am the first to have been in this channel now. Mistress Suffering > Has not been any prior. Avious Tylepthine > hey its enh in unite-now 3 days ago I would have killed someone over this Green Halo > lol Mistress Suffering > Don't worry, we're still the same cheerful friendly types we were before. Green Halo > Good to hear :P Alois Hammer > lol TRGr > lol Avious Tylepthine > I guess this means your not killing BoS anymore right? Mistress Suffering > No, BoS is being removed. Avious Tylepthine > what do you mean? Sapphrine > u'k, any questions, ask your councilors UK then stood idly by as ENH put several BOS towers into reinforced mode. A call went out to IAC and CVA for help. IAC, who we hadn't really interacted with for months due to their war with UK, immediately offered us sanctuary in their space. CVA, our long-standing enemy, who had every reason to believe this was some sort of elaborate UK-BOS ruse to ambush their capital ships, immediately sent several carriers to rep our shields, and put a fleet on standby in case we needed it for additional support. With the addition of a somewhat mealy-mouthed response from Maggot about what was going on between UK and ENH, the BOS senate voted with uncharacteristic speed to set UK red. That sort of morphed into orange, as many BOS pilots were still conflicted in their feelings toward UK (e.g., I let several UK ships that appeared to be evacuating from Unity station pass unmolested through a gatecamp in Y-MPWL). Nevertheless, BOS' long-standing friendship with UK is at an end, and the alliance has decided to leave Providence. And those UK pilots we've flown with this past year who wonder why BOS pilots interject cries of "Amarr Victor!" in threads like this now know the rest of the story. Ah, I miss your write-ups Pouncer! (BOS lost 3 towers to ENH after the NAP with U'K btw) BOS has indeed left that section of space, too much drama, not enough good ore/rats :) Special thanks to IAC for letting us live in Catch. Special thanks to ENH, you guys are very good at what you do, and I'd like to think some of us learned from you. (Playing with FIX has shown I did atleast. ) -Cider Np :p was our pleasure , have fun , fly safe and pew pew those FIXes as for the rest , lets keep it polite gentleman. Words mean crap especially forum words , so pls if you have a difference of opinion , decide who's right on the battlefield :p Have No Fear , I Is Here
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.09 20:30:00 - [169] Splendid write up Mr.Hardin...as fair a write up as I've seen here to date. Though as has been said earlier you really are one ugly barstard! No chance you'll make emporer with a mug like that! - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
Johncrab Minmatar Typo Corp	Posted - 2007.06.09 23:29:00 - [170] Awesome report Hardin... as usual. Wish you the best of luck for what comes next UK. Have to say though, that I find disapointing you guys chose such high profile pirate corps/alliances to help you defend Unity. Think most of us (outsiders that have been cheering for UK all this time) have a hard time buying this issue. Was it worth throwing away one highly respected UK's doctrine (to fight against pirates), in order to defend Unity at all costs?

Azver Deroven Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.06.10 00:45:00 - [171] In all honestly, Im really, REALLY, anoyed by the fact that I missed it all. Ticks me off big time, really... But my congratulations to winners and what I gathered, even losers need to be pat into back for putting up good fight. So, where we gonna have this goin' on next time?
Maggot Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.10 01:27:00 - [172] Originally by: Johncrab Awesome report Hardin... as usual. Wish you the best of luck for what comes next UK. Have to say though, that I find disapointing you guys chose such high profile pirate corps/alliances to help you defend Unity. Think most of us (outsiders that have been cheering for UK all this time) have a hard time buying this issue. Was it worth throwing away one highly respected UK's doctrine (to fight against pirates), in order to defend Unity at all costs? Anti-piracy is not U'K doctrine, but it is something most of the members feel very strongly about. U'K members are not allowed to pirate. All of the allies who helped U'K in this war asked to assist after seeing CVA mass a huge array of forces against us. We did not 'choose' any of them. Those that did join the U'K side were all honourable and well regarded combat veterans, and we certainly needed their help. All of the allies who assisted U'K in the war agreed to NRDS in U'K space. When you are faced with such numbers and have no support from the locals whom you historically protected then such help was welcome. If you have any suggestions as to whose help we should have taken as an alternative I am all ears ;)
zoolkhan Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.06.10 06:57:00 - [173] Edited by: zoolkhan on 10/06/2007 07:02:59 you protect them, clear the pipes repair their posses repeadetely and that is ok. During that time you may even get a "thanks guys" in local if youre lucky. But usually the constant policing and assistance is taken for granted. you do something that is as bad as chosing a known pirate as ally - still you protect people, by enforcing NRDS amongst them in the area where you have the say - and all good things you have ever done, are washed away and you go from blue to red in an instant. ... i guess we have to accept this reality. EDIT: i was never so naive to expect help from people who can barely help themselfes i do not really hold the passivity of our neighbours in that matter against them, as they first and only wafe of pilots would have been turned to wrecks on the first day. i just had higher expectations into their ability to see things from our angle just for a moment before going red. ushra'khan had little choice. And yes - it was worth it U'K recruit! ..we come for our people..
Eiro Minmatar ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.10 10:37:00 - [174] Excellent writeup! A pleasure to read. Just one nitpick: Originally by: Hardin sounding the death knell for ISS We're still alive and kicking, although certainly changed and no longer in Catch/Providence ;) Eiro
Pouncer Minmatar Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.10 15:37:00 - [175] Originally by: Maggot All of the allies who assisted U'K in the war agreed to NRDS in U'K space. Just thought I'd point out that's a rather meaningless gesture, given that: 1. The pirates were free to set anyone red without regard to your own standings. 2. Your local allies lived in their own space instead of yours. We weren't the least bit surprised to see that ENH's first action after NAPing UK was to go after BOS towers instead of CVA's.
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:46:00 - [176] Unsurprising really, since we didn't approach UK with an offer of alliance, merely an exchange of "I won't shoot at you" to cease distracting them from the war they already had on hand. At that time we had an active wardec (empire and otherwise) against BoS so you and SR were indeed the targets of choice. We never made any shared military arrangement with UK whatsoever, but unlike some of their neighbors, simply felt they were getting the shaft and lent a hand when opportunity permitted. I'm glad to have done so, and think a lot of people really showed their true colors over the course of this conflict.
Johncrab Minmatar Typo Corp	Posted - 2007.06.10 17:56:00 - [177] Thanks for the replys and clarifications Maggot and zoolkhan. And no, I have no suggestions As I mentioned, I'm just an outsider reading the news about the struggle for a long time and didn't understood how you guys eneded up fighting on the same side.
Didier Oriol Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.11 05:54:00 - [178] Nice Writeup Hardin... A little biased, but that is to be expected, seeing as how one person can only have perspective from their own side of the conflict. Fighting vs CVA Allies et al was always good fun Look forward to shooting you guys in the future! Fly safe... but please don't warp your pods out ;)
Caya Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.11 08:01:00 - [179] Excellent work and even better report. My only wish is there was emperor watching your achievements.
Redbad Minmatar Tempered Steel Legion	Posted - 2007.06.11 09:30:00 - [180] Such fine piece of work needs a special place on you website CCP, that it not be lost in the Maelstrom that is called CAOD! RB join us today!

Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.11 16:42:00 - [181] Originally by: Hardin The only solution would be to base that piracy in an Amarr region but even that would still give the 'slaver' Amarrian a huge PR advantage because all the ****ed off locals would gravitate to the 'law-bringing' Amarrians - as happened to a certain extent in Providence. I don't mean to sound flippant but I can't help thinking 'so what'. All that happened in Providence is that the 'unable/unwilling to PvP' alliances sided with whoever they thought would make their ISK-generating lives easier. But they never contributed anything of value militarily. They provided cannon fodder, and some amusement, and a little raiding distraction, but their part in the overall conflict was completely inconsequential. To be honest, competent PvP alliances/corps are better off without those deadweights diluting gangs, and dying all the time (then moaning about their being a lack of protection etc). ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Kaganis Warmonkey Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.11 17:56:00 - [182] Originally by: Pouncer 1. The pirates were free to set anyone red without regard to your own standings. Wrong. Our reds had to match U'K.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.11 18:01:00 - [183] Edited by: Janu Hull on 11/06/2007 18:01:35 Originally by: Butter Dog All that happened in Providence is that the 'unable/unwilling to PvP' alliances sided with whoever they thought would make their ISK-generating lives easier. He had the point right in the palm of his hand and missed it completely. Just to help you out, all the ISK that gets generated, where do you think it gets spent?
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.11 18:08:00 - [184] Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 11/06/2007 18:01:35 Originally by: Butter Dog All that happened in Providence is that the 'unable/unwilling to PvP' alliances sided with whoever they thought would make their ISK-generating lives easier. He had the point right in the palm of his hand and missed it completely. Just to help you out, all the ISK that gets generated, where do you think it gets spent? on ebay? Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.11 18:28:00 - [185] Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 11/06/2007 18:01:35 Originally by: Butter Dog All that happened in Providence is that the 'unable/unwilling to PvP' alliances sided with whoever they thought would make their ISK-generating lives easier. He had the point right in the palm of his hand and missed it completely. Just to help you out, all the ISK that gets generated, where do you think it gets spent? on ebay? Hilarious. Components, ammunition, better weapons. Sometimes even ships (though the 50% mark up over Jita makes bringing new boats in from there worth the 20 jumps sometimes). I'd also think any Industrialist with processed mineral buy orders would be thrilled by the amount of stuff I've dumped on the market in IS-R and 9UY. I've easily sold millions of units in just the last week now that I can get to the reprocessing facility again. Its that economy thing no one out here seems to respect. The other big contribution is intelligence. In a gang, yeah, maybe we are just cannon fodder. Lurking in a belt, we're a damned good set of eyes and ears. Just from listening in on the chatter yesterday, I know where you spent most of yesterday afternoon and what ship it was you were flying (a Pilgrim IIRC), Lilan. Even sent in a few reports of my own when you flew through the system where I was ratting. CVA could paint a nice pretty picture of your movements through the region from the information we gathered for them. If they wanted to take you down, they'd have at least a two jump head start, knowing where you are, where you came from, and where the key travel lanes in the region pass through. I can see the impact that kind of intelligence network has on the people who try playing hardball with them in the region. 9 out of 10 hostile pilots seem to be in Vagabonds that can flee from combat on no notice when we blob up. And despite the relative lack of combat ability most of us ratters have individually, when we blob up, it seems all of you hardcore PvP alliance types suddenly lose your stomach for fighting and head for the safespots as fast as your MWDs can get you there. Pirates like the Laughing Leprachauns and Repo at least have the stomach to fly battlecruisers and battleships to make a stand when they're cornered.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.11 18:59:00 - [186] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Lilan Kahn Originally by: Janu Hull Edited by: Janu Hull on 11/06/2007 18:01:35 Originally by: Butter Dog All that happened in Providence is that the 'unable/unwilling to PvP' alliances sided with whoever they thought would make their ISK-generating lives easier. He had the point right in the palm of his hand and missed it completely. Just to help you out, all the ISK that gets generated, where do you think it gets spent? on ebay? blah blah No self-respecting entity makes their ISK in providence since its such a resource poor area. We know perfectly well that PvP requires an ISK backbone. Which is why our industrial operations are well out of harms way (and very profitable, thank you). ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.11 19:12:00 - [187] Originally by: Butter Dog No self-respecting entity makes their ISK in providence since its such a resource poor area. Must be a nice view from the top, we'll compare notes when I get there. For now, I'm just a low level operative just fresh from the barber having shaved off the carebear fur. Providence may not be much, but its a helluva step up for someone in my position, so you'll forgive me if I enjoy it for what it is. Quote: We know perfectly well that PvP requires an ISK backbone. Which is why our industrial operations are well out of harms way (and very profitable, thank you). Good for you. Think you can spare a few lessons for Ushra'Khan? They seem to have slept through that lesson in empire building.
eRabbit 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.11 19:19:00 - [188] Edited by: eRabbit on 11/06/2007 19:21:00 Originally by: Janu Hull For now, I'm just a low level operative just fresh from the barber having shaved off the carebear fur. Originally by: Janu Hull Think you can spare a few lessons for Ushra'Khan? They seem to have slept through that lesson in empire building. For someone who admits themselves to being new to 0.0, you should probably show more respect to a group of people who have achieved a lot more than you have.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.11 19:51:00 - [189] Originally by: eRabbit Edited by: eRabbit on 11/06/2007 19:21:00 Originally by: Janu Hull For now, I'm just a low level operative just fresh from the barber having shaved off the carebear fur. Originally by: Janu Hull Think you can spare a few lessons for Ushra'Khan? They seem to have slept through that lesson in empire building. For someone who admits themselves to being new to 0.0, you should probably show more respect to a group of people who have achieved a lot more than you have. Respect is earned. I kept hearing about all this heat being on, and the whole damned time I was ratting in that end of Providence three jumps from 9UY and saw NOTHING. I've run a friggin' unarmed, unstabbed Industrial ship through 9UY and I've never been challenged, even after UK declared me hostile. There was a lotta hot air blowin', but there's no fire behind it. Even now, so what, they go on a random rampage against anyone they declare their enemy. The only shaking I'm doing is with my head wondering "What else is new in 0.0?" There's no more challenge evading their threats than their is anyone else in the region. The only system they regularly haunt is 9UY. Twice I've seen them elsewhere in Providence in the last two months. Not exactly the most commanding presence. They accomplished quite a bit, but then again, they failed to make it work. It wasn't sustainable progress, and nothing in what I see them say here tells me they have a clue about how to make an empire work. So now they're nothing more than another roaming band of troublemakers. Camping gates, hiding around moons. No more a threat than anything else a belt ratter has to put up with.
Sapphrine The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.11 20:00:00 - [190] Originally by: Janu Hull Respect is earned. snip yes respect is indeed earned. You may well have a low opinion of U'K but I assure you that you're in the minority here. I'd far rather have 10 pilots at my back with pvp experience than 30 pilots without a clue. Its all well and good to say you can feed intel but i suspect you might miss alot of the nuance of what is actually important or useful intel to an FC. I do think you chose the right side though, your sheer arrogance marks you as amarr. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])

Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.11 20:01:00 - [191] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: eRabbit Edited by: eRabbit on 11/06/2007 19:21:00 Originally by: Janu Hull For now, I'm just a low level operative just fresh from the barber having shaved off the carebear fur. Originally by: Janu Hull Think you can spare a few lessons for Ushra'Khan? They seem to have slept through that lesson in empire building. For someone who admits themselves to being new to 0.0, you should probably show more respect to a group of people who have achieved a lot more than you have. Respect is earned. I kept hearing about all this heat being on, and the whole damned time I was ratting in that end of Providence three jumps from 9UY and saw NOTHING. I've run a friggin' unarmed, unstabbed Industrial ship through 9UY and I've never been challenged, even after UK declared me hostile. There was a lotta hot air blowin', but there's no fire behind it. Even now, so what, they go on a random rampage against anyone they declare their enemy. The only shaking I'm doing is with my head wondering "What else is new in 0.0?" There's no more challenge evading their threats than their is anyone else in the region. The only system they regularly haunt is 9UY. Twice I've seen them elsewhere in Providence in the last two months. Not exactly the most commanding presence. They accomplished quite a bit, but then again, they failed to make it work. It wasn't sustainable progress, and nothing in what I see them say here tells me they have a clue about how to make an empire work. So now they're nothing more than another roaming band of troublemakers. Camping gates, hiding around moons. No more a threat than anything else a belt ratter has to put up with. Oh dear. Quite the opinionated yet clueless individual, arent you. A glance at various killboards from those involved in 9UY will tell you all you need to know. Just because they're not stalking your every move, doenst meant they won't be blowing up billions of ISK in shipping, and laughing all the way to the bank. I just hope at least part of that is at considerable expense to you. UK have achieved more in this game than you ever have, or ever will. Try to think about that next time you post such utter drivel. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.11 20:31:00 - [192] Originally by: Butter Dog Oh dear. Quite the opinionated yet clueless individual, arent you. A glance at various killboards from those involved in 9UY will tell you all you need to know. Killboards mean nothing to me. Egostroking and statistical spin doctoring. Quote: Just because they're not stalking your every move, doenst meant they won't be blowing up billions of ISK in shipping, and laughing all the way to the bank. Interesting since I hear so little of anything to do with any of them on any of the intel channels I follow. Again, the Kheram pirates are more notorious at the moment. Quote: I just hope at least part of that is at considerable expense to you. UK's cost me about 300 million ISK in losses. Nothing to sneeze at, but nothing that hasn't been replaced already. Quote: UK have achieved more in this game than you ever have, or ever will. Try to think about that next time you post such utter drivel. I logged in for the first time in December of 2006. I first entered the Providence region in late April. I haven't had time to accomplish much, and you have no idea what I'm capable of doing given time. I've built empires before. The games are just different skins on the same regurgitated mechanics. This one's a little unique on the outside, but its all the same crap at its rotten core. Its all politics and bravado. The killboard stats and ubar-leet PeenVPeen skillz are insignificant. Its all about who you know, and how you use them to your advantage. Same as it ever is in any sandbox universe.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.11 21:29:00 - [193] Edited by: Butter Dog on 11/06/2007 21:29:41 Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Butter Dog Oh dear. Quite the opinionated yet clueless individual, arent you. A glance at various killboards from those involved in 9UY will tell you all you need to know. Killboards mean nothing to me. Egostroking and statistical spin doctoring. Quote: Just because they're not stalking your every move, doenst meant they won't be blowing up billions of ISK in shipping, and laughing all the way to the bank. Interesting since I hear so little of anything to do with any of them on any of the intel channels I follow. Again, the Kheram pirates are more notorious at the moment. Quote: I just hope at least part of that is at considerable expense to you. UK's cost me about 300 million ISK in losses. Nothing to sneeze at, but nothing that hasn't been replaced already. Quote: UK have achieved more in this game than you ever have, or ever will. Try to think about that next time you post such utter drivel. I logged in for the first time in December of 2006. I first entered the Providence region in late April. I haven't had time to accomplish much, and you have no idea what I'm capable of doing given time. I've built empires before. The games are just different skins on the same regurgitated mechanics. This one's a little unique on the outside, but its all the same crap at its rotten core. Its all politics and bravado. The killboard stats and ubar-leet PeenVPeen skillz are insignificant. Its all about who you know, and how you use them to your advantage. Same as it ever is in any sandbox universe. It may not have actually occured to you, but a lot of people who play eve have absolutely no desire to 'empire build' as you put it. Quite the opposite - our small alliance exists to have fun. And guess what? Pew pew is fun. I log on and talk to friend, many of whom I have met in real life, and we go shoot things. Ite an enjoyable diversion. Fuelling and managing an outpost is not fun in the slightest (and believe me when I say we know this better than most - nearly all of BUM came from ISS). Now, we're not stupid. We know that fun cost ISK. So we have quite seperate industrial interests (incuding quite a diversified range of T2 production) which is kepy nicely out of harms way and managed by alts. Nothing new or clever about that - but it is the enabler which lets us (BUM) focus on doing what we enjoy. Its also nothing to do with 'empire building' as you put it. Its just an enabler for our shiny ships and guns. The fact remains, that our little collection of pew-pewers generates more ISK in loot than you will ever make in Providence doing anything of an indusrial nature. Only a few days ago we said hello to a 6bn ISK navy Raven (unfortunately only 3bn of loot survived, but you can't have it all). But the loot is simply a bonus, the main reason we shoot things is because we enjoy doing it. So who is laughing now? The bitter industrialist, or the pvpers who simply log in to have some fun at your expense? Doesnt take a genius to work that one out. I think you'll find a lot of UK are very happy with their new found freedom to enjoy the game again. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.11 21:52:00 - [194] That's fine, Butterdog. If you're enjoying yourself, fine. I'm enjoying myself, everyone else seems to be having some level of fun around it, so screw it. Table the forum drama, and I'll see you around. You're not intimidating me with the threat of ship loss or being podkilled, I'm over and beyond those kinds of losses, and I'm never without a fallback position to carry on in the event of a catastrophic loss. Don't think I'll be feeding you anything like six billion ISK in parts anytime in the near future, but then I don't plan on feeding you much of anything other than a frustrated attempt to catch me if we ever end up in the same system. Besides...who the hell in their right mind runs a CNR fitted like that into no sec (or lowsec, for that matter)? I just fitted a tech 2 tanked standard Raven out to Providence last night, and damned if I didn't drop more than 150 million total INCLUDING insurance... That's just insane...
Fwaatcha Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.12 00:34:00 - [195] Not gonna read all 5 pages Thanks for the read Hardin. It seemed as unbias as you could make it.
chrisreeves Gallente Asgard Protectorate	Posted - 2007.06.12 07:37:00 - [196] My first experience with rp came when we were in ISS and were flying through 9UY area and saw the rp in local. I personally thought it was one of the coolest things that I had experienced in eve (besides personally cynoing in the LV fleet Titan and all, helping defend multiple fronts in the New Eden War, being a driving force for defense during my time zone in ISS and experiencing pos sieging and fleet ops firsthand). I kinda put it on that same level. Someone laughed when I mentioned about ISS bringing in pilots to assist. I wasn't making the point as if ISS could have turned the tide. I was making the point because I saw the standings in ISS that had U.K listed and friends and I know how I treat my friends. I come to their aid, no matter the consequence. My wish is that I had left ISS earlier and/or formed up gangs to go help UK earlier because, in my opinion they deserved it and had earned my and others, respect. Unfortunately I did not for reason that are not appropriate to mention right now. To U.K, I have to apologize for not doing more personally but I tried. To CVA I have to say congrats on winning 9UY however it was done and I have to say, in my opinion shame on those who called themselves friends and could have partook in this eve historic battle but didn't. ----------------- Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile. "It was empty!!"
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:17:00 - [197] Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 12/06/2007 15:17:04 The disrespect for U'K on the last page of this thread is low class and unwarranted. They could have bent over and died when presented with a force they could not beat. They did not. No one who manages to maintain a hold on their system for a month of solid siege warfare should be disrespected, period. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Torshin TARDZ Gods of Night and Day	Posted - 2007.06.12 15:42:00 - [198] lol hull you must not only be new to 0.0 you must be new to the forums. Save your energy and stop trying to fight with bitter dog, its almost impossible to win, he will just drag you down with him. Offical Tardz Poo-litical Anal-yst Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:10:00 - [199] Originally by: Torshin lol hull you must not only be new to 0.0 you must be new to the forums. Save your energy and stop trying to fight with bitter dog, its almost impossible to win, he will just drag you down with him. Win or lose, its interesting, anyway. At least I'm getting my daily dose of forum drama.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.12 18:19:00 - [200] Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Torshin lol hull you must not only be new to 0.0 you must be new to the forums. Save your energy and stop trying to fight with bitter dog, its almost impossible to win, he will just drag you down with him. Win or lose, its interesting, anyway. At least I'm getting my daily dose of forum drama. I don't have an issue with you agreeing/disagreeing with me, you are entitled to do so even if you do not speak from valid experience. But a lot of people, including myself, have a problem with you disrespecting UK. You're not involved enough to pass a valid opinion on this. We've been alongside UK since before they built the 9UY station (in fact, a gang I led in ISS helped drive off a hostile POS assualt only two days before the station was built). We've seen first hand, the hell and high water UK have been through, trying to police that part of Providence and defend that station against two massive assaults. By sheer grit and determination have they held on to is as long as they have. For such a comparatively small alliance to have been so successful in their goals deserves nothing but your respect. No-one in this entire thread but you seems to doubt this. That is the issue here. Your nublet-like opnions on other matters are merely an amusing diversion. You don't have the knowledge or credibility to pass a valid opinion on UK, and that is the end of the matter. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])

Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.12 19:16:00 - [201] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: Janu Hull Originally by: Torshin lol hull you must not only be new to 0.0 you must be new to the forums. Save your energy and stop trying to fight with bitter dog, its almost impossible to win, he will just drag you down with him. Win or lose, its interesting, anyway. At least I'm getting my daily dose of forum drama. I don't have an issue with you agreeing/disagreeing with me, you are entitled to do so even if you do not speak from valid experience. But a lot of people, including myself, have a problem with you disrespecting UK. You're not involved enough to pass a valid opinion on this. We've been alongside UK since before they built the 9UY station (in fact, a gang I led in ISS helped drive off a hostile POS assualt only two days before the station was built). We've seen first hand, the hell and high water UK have been through, trying to police that part of Providence and defend that station against two massive assaults. By sheer grit and determination have they held on to is as long as they have. For such a comparatively small alliance to have been so successful in their goals deserves nothing but your respect. No-one in this entire thread but you seems to doubt this. That is the issue here. Your nublet-like opnions on other matters are merely an amusing diversion. You don't have the knowledge or credibility to pass a valid opinion on UK, and that is the end of the matter. And yet two sentences garner an essay response. Welcome to post-modernism.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.12 19:35:00 - [202] Originally by: Janu Hull And yet two sentences garner an essay response. Welcome to post-modernism. And your reply relates to the point I've raised... how? If only all my essays at university consisted of a few short paragraphs. Next. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.06.12 20:29:00 - [203] If my opinion means so little, why respond to it? I don't recall reading any minimum experience or length of gameplay requirement for posting here. Its essentially a dumping ground for opinions. I think I've done pretty well staying out of tinfoil territory, and I don't think I've been that disrespectful to anyone personally. If a negative opinion of an organization's performance during a military campaign is enough to bind anyone's panties that tight, I'm not the one with the problem. When its been pointed out to me that I've said something in error, I haven't been hesitant to apologize. That said, I've made something of a home in Providence, and I've watched the comings and goings there long enough to pick up the patterns well enough to know my ass from a hole in the ground, and I've got my .02 ISK to throw on the table. Don't know where it came in that I don't respect Ushra'Khan, they were the first alliance to welcome me as a neutral into the Providence region, and for that I'm still grateful to them. If anything, I really regret them losing Unity, because dammit, you can't beat free parking as a perk. I've taken my beatings in 0.0 in stride. I've been shot up by IAC, Goonswarm, Einherjar Rising, even UK once, and they haven't stopped me yet. I've been in gangs that have chased off gankers, I've had my ship blown to pieces sitting in front of a space station ignoring me for being foolish enough to have opened fire. Don't know exactly what you think amounts to enough credibility to speak your mind around here, and frankly I don't care. I'm here now, and I'm up to my neck in it. For you that means, get used to seeing my name. I'm the face they slammed into the mold when they minted bad pennies. Look at the bright side, at least I'm not someone's alt.
Sapphrine The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.12 20:47:00 - [204] Edited by: Sapphrine on 12/06/2007 20:48:00 Originally by: Janu Hull Don't know where it came in that I don't respect Ushra'Khan, Snip Don't know exactly what you think amounts to enough credibility to speak your mind around here, and frankly I don't care. To address your first point, you were sitting happily telling U'K they missed a lesson in empire building iirc? Given your limited experience and U'K pedigree and existence as the second oldest alliance in the game, they really do have a fair bit of experience. That they've lost a fight... fair enough... S*** happens but its hardly going to tear the alliance to pieces. They'll regroup and fight their ground. As for your second point, any player starting here has the potential to be credible.... however when the first things people see is you being opinionated and seeming quite clueless.... thats exactly how you'll be taken. Now stop arguing semantics or petty points and get back on the point in this thread or find another one to snipe in. Edited for accuracy and spag as ever
Isyel Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.12 21:25:00 - [205] Originally by: Sapphrine Edited by: Sapphrine on 12/06/2007 20:48:00 Originally by: Janu Hull Don't know where it came in that I don't respect Ushra'Khan, Snip Don't know exactly what you think amounts to enough credibility to speak your mind around here, and frankly I don't care. To address your first point, you were sitting happily telling U'K they missed a lesson in empire building iirc? Given your limited experience and U'K pedigree and existence as the second oldest alliance in the game, they really do have a fair bit of experience. That they've lost a fight... fair enough... S*** happens but its hardly going to tear the alliance to pieces. They'll regroup and fight their ground. As for your second point, any player starting here has the potential to be credible.... however when the first things people see is you being opinionated and seeming quite clueless.... thats exactly how you'll be taken. Now stop arguing semantics or petty points and get back on the point in this thread or find another one to snipe in. Edited for accuracy and spag as ever Ironically (at least as far as i know and i've been in the U'K for a while) the U'K was never much into proper empire building anyway. It was more about setting up a safe haven and beating those stinking slavers to a pulp. And i know how what happened there looks. You make the area safe, protect groups from pirates etc. and they take it for granted. Something happens and it's all forgotten, they suddenly turn hostile. And as far as Janu Hall is saying. Most of what the bunch of safety craving 0.0 carebears are spending their stubbornly earned isk on rarely (if ever) sees any meaningful PvP. It's used to make more ISK in an endless circle of complete uselessness. At least you give the PvPers money by blowing up. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.06.12 22:58:00 - [206] Originally by: Janu Hull Look at the bright side, at least I'm not someone's alt. No, I pretty much peg you as an alt. You live in an empty corp to relentlessly spam CAOD. I assume the BoB threads where most alts live have just gotten boring, so you're over trolling in this one to keep in practice until they pick up again.
Mr LovaLova The Pole Position	Posted - 2007.06.13 01:40:00 - [207] Tonight on EvE-online, Butter Dog vs Janu Hill special! Oh wait... gratz CVA and UK roleplay keeping it alive
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.13 07:36:00 - [208] Originally by: Janu Hull Don't know where it came in that I don't respect Ushra'Khan Pure self-ownage. I say no more. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Hygelac Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.13 12:22:00 - [209] Epic write up Hardin and it clears up a lot of the misinformed ideas under which I was labouring. Respect to CVA sounds hard-fought. --- Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
Isis Dea Minmatar Aspi-Vore Xenosaders North Star Confederation	Posted - 2007.06.13 17:33:00 - [210] Originally by: Butter Dog Edited by: Butter Dog on 11/06/2007 21:29:41 It may not have actually occured to you, but a lot of people who play eve have absolutely no desire to 'empire build' as you put it. Quite the opposite - our small alliance exists to have fun. And guess what? Pew pew is fun. I log on and talk to friend, many of whom I have met in real life, and we go shoot things. Ite an enjoyable diversion. Fuelling and managing an outpost is not fun in the slightest (and believe me when I say we know this better than most - nearly all of BUM came from ISS). Now, we're not stupid. We know that fun cost ISK. So we have quite seperate industrial interests (incuding quite a diversified range of T2 production) which is kepy nicely out of harms way and managed by alts. Nothing new or clever about that - but it is the enabler which lets us (BUM) focus on doing what we enjoy. Its also nothing to do with 'empire building' as you put it. Its just an enabler for our shiny ships and guns. The fact remains, that our little collection of pew-pewers generates more ISK in loot than you will ever make in Providence doing anything of an industrial nature. Only a few days ago we said hello to a 6bn ISK navy Raven (unfortunately only 3bn of loot survived, but you can't have it all). But the loot is simply a bonus, the main reason we shoot things is because we enjoy doing it. So who is laughing now? The bitter industrialist, or the pvpers who simply log in to have some fun at your expense? Doesnt take a genius to work that one out. I think you'll find a lot of UK are very happy with their new found freedom to enjoy the game again. As a fellow PvP'er for nearly three years now having fought on over four epic battlefields (in terms of alliance involvement), I must say your post is harsh and cold and has little weight other than throwing threats around. First off, remind yourself that there are more interests in Eve other than your own. His joys in (eve) life may not come from the same sources as your own. "Fun" to you may in other words not be "fun" to him. This applies to your "PvP", his "industrialization", and your statement remarking "empire building". In terms of profit- both sides make profit. As a PvP'er, your profit is through killing of players, his is through killing of NPCs and roids. Both of you make loot. While you did strike lucky with the Navy Raven, not all of your kills will be as expensive and/or yield as much as that one in particular. Meanwhile Janu's loot is a continuous spew of loot without the chance factor of the T2 loot but rather instead the chance loot of a named or officer NPC. In the end your both equal. If Janu desides to involve mining in 0.0, technically the profit (despite what folks have argued) will swing in Janu's favor should he involve himself in the richer ores of 0.0 mainly if he can maintain constant "loot" from these roids. (Look up the 0.0 ore profits if you don't believe me.) Loss factor is also equal. You take the same risk by joining a gang as he does going solo. While you have more firepower and means of killing, you also are more detectable and slow moving (even if you run an effective vagabond gang). In the end you still are equal; you just swing your statements selfishly in your favor while Janu remarks they're only in your favor. To poke some more fun at you, I've got friends in BUM as well as talked to some of the members in BUM during our fights in 9UY and surrounding areas. Even your own selfish views of profit in BUM -you might want to go back and check and see if the others in BUM are profiting the same way, for what I heard is what I heard and I will make no further comment on it other than you might want to look into your won words. ___

Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.13 18:08:00 - [211] Oh, this is going to be fun. Originally by: Isis Dea As a fellow PvP'er for nearly three years now having fought on over four epic battlefields (in terms of alliance involvement), I must say your post is harsh and cold and has little weight other than throwing threats around. Funny. I can't see any threats whatsoever. Where is the threat? You've quoted my post and I just can't see it, tell me where it is please... Originally by: Isis Dea First off, remind yourself that there are more interests in Eve other than your own. His joys in (eve) life may not come from the same sources as your own. "Fun" to you may in other words not be "fun" to him. This applies to your "PvP", his "industrialization", and your statement remarking "empire building". Did I say otherwise? Actually, if you read my post properly and also read the post I was responding to, instead of this knee-jerk rubbish, you'll see that I stated I understood very well the importance of industrial operations. In fact as I type this I'm playing on an alt managing some production. My post is not anti-industrialist in the slightest, it is responding specifically to the post of one individual. I would have thought that was obvious, but there you go, I've had to spell it out just for you. Also, I didnt bring up the topic of 'empire building'. I was responding to it. Originally by: Isis Dea In terms of profit- both sides make profit. As a PvP'er, your profit is through killing of players, his is through killing of NPCs and roids. Both of you make loot. While you did strike lucky with the Navy Raven, not all of your kills will be as expensive and/or yield as much as that one in particular. Meanwhile Janu's loot is a continuous spew of loot without the chance factor of the T2 loot but rather instead the chance loot of a named or officer NPC. In the end your both equal. If Janu desides to involve mining in 0.0, technically the profit (despite what folks have argued) will swing in Janu's favor should he involve himself in the richer ores of 0.0 mainly if he can maintain constant "loot" from these roids. (Look up the 0.0 ore profits if you don't believe me.) Loss factor is also equal. You take the same risk by joining a gang as he does going solo. While you have more firepower and means of killing, you also are more detectable and slow moving (even if you run an effective vagabond gang). In the end you still are equal; you just swing your statements selfishly in your favor while Janu remarks they're only in your favor. Well, thanks for that explination of very basic game mechanics. Most fascinating. Seriously, do you think anyone reading this thread doesnt know this already? I don't know, perhaps you meant to post this bizarre section of 'advice' on basic game mechanics in some random new starter guide or in the new player section, what its doing in response to my post I have literally no idea. Originally by: Isis Dea To poke some more fun at you, I've got friends in BUM as well as talked to some of the members in BUM during our fights in 9UY and surrounding areas. Even your own selfish views of profit in BUM -you might want to go back and check and see if the others in BUM are profiting the same way, for what I heard is what I heard and I will make no further comment on it other than you might want to look into your won words. That is a complete 'nothing statement'. I don't know who your 'friends' are, and its very easy to make such claims without substantiating them. What I can say is that everyone in our alliance has access to excellent industrial/isk-generating arrangements (certainly the best that I know of, for an alliance our size) if they choose to make use of it. So in summary; You've completely misread my original post and made a series of incorrect assumptions, provided an amusing 'nublets guide to isk generation', and rounded it all off with a baseless accusation. Well done ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Dr Slaughter Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:28:00 - [212] Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 13/06/2007 19:27:59 Sorry to see Unity fall Respect to UK and, sadly, posting in a people trying to argue with butterdog thread Janu, as Butter says.. pvp is fun but costly.. so remember.. get your alts to create an investment scheme, get your corp mates to invest in it, then when it 'fails' due to a war (or similar) stop playing for a while, come back, reclaim all 'your' assets, and use the funds to start up your own business again. You too can laugh your way to the bank. As they say.. respect is earned.. nuff said Originally by: fire 59 Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.06.13 19:57:00 - [213] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 13/06/2007 19:27:59 Sorry to see Unity fall Respect to UK and, sadly, posting in a people trying to argue with butterdog thread Janu, as Butter says.. pvp is fun but costly.. so remember.. get your alts to create an investment scheme, get your corp mates to invest in it, then when it 'fails' due to a war (or similar) stop playing for a while, come back, reclaim all 'your' assets, and use the funds to start up your own business again. You too can laugh your way to the bank. As they say.. respect is earned.. nuff said O Thief says "Thanks for the faction-fitted Archon" ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Dr Slaughter Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.13 20:03:00 - [214] Originally by: fire 59 Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.
BlackJade Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.06.13 20:43:00 - [215] No worries, Slaughter, those in the know see what you did there. Everyone is boarding the ROFLcopter for another epic laugh at Mr. Dog's fall from grace.


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