| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
   |
Posted - 2007.06.07 11:28:00 -
[1]
Thermodynamics (rank3, -5% heat damage/lvl) is needed to overload modules.
Skill requirements got changed to lvl 5 engineering, lvl 5 energy management and lvl 4 science.
Eng 5 is pretty much mandatory anyway, sci 4 as well, but EM 5? Seems a bit over the top for a new game feature which is intended to be used commonly.
Not that I personally have that much of a problem with it, EM 5 was on my longterm training list anyway, but as said it seems a bit over the top.
|
Amy Wang
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 12:04:00 -
[2]
At least its not something semi-useless rank 6 skill like logistics 5, but I agree, maybe instead of energy management (rank 3) energy systems operation (rank 1) would be better.
But then again energy management is a overall pretty usefull skill, so its not that bad.
Still I have the impression there are new features introduced to enhance gameplay and then the urge to introduce new sp sinks take over and they get high prerequisites, most prominent example would be the triage module, but also the bomb launcher.
On second thoughts, harsh skill requirements help to hinder noob alts from using these features (think of suicide ganking dessies/cruises with overload).
|
murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Vigilance Infinitas
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 12:32:00 -
[3]
LOL. CCP is so random. I give up.
Because I said so...
|
Lord DarkStar
Gallente
Mobile Alcohol Processing Units
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 12:36:00 -
[4]
if thats the case if they want to have a high skill requirement so noob alts on trial accounts cant use it to gank stuff then they just have to add ... cannot be trained on trial account .... other then that ya if you make an alt on your paid account .. i guess so ...
|
B Glorious
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 17:27:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Aramendel
Thermodynamics (rank3, -5% heat damage/lvl) is needed to overload modules.
Skill requirements got changed to lvl 5 engineering, lvl 5 energy management and lvl 4 science.
Eng 5 is pretty much mandatory anyway, sci 4 as well, but EM 5? Seems a bit over the top for a new game feature which is intended to be used commonly.
Not that I personally have that much of a problem with it, EM 5 was on my longterm training list anyway, but as said it seems a bit over the top.
I agree with this pretty much entirely. If CCP wants to try to pre-nerf or at least inhibit people from using heat too much, increasing the skill training time isn't the solution. If it turns out after release that heat is overpowered, then the long skill prerequisites only make it so that those who don't have the skills have to wait through mandatory skill training time before they can compete, and that's not good game design.
My beef is mostly with the Energy Management V prerequisite. While admittedly it is a useful skill to have trained eventually, the skill itself is not important to me now and probably won't be important for a few months yet, especially considering that at the moment I would rather train for HACs or other specialized ships. In the short term, Energy Management V would be nice, but its not going to help me enjoy the game in the short term. If this prerequisite was decreased to Energy Management IV, I could be more than satisfied, and in the end I would still train up EM V at some time.
Not all prerequisites in place are bad or unnecessary, but something like this just reeks of Skinnerean maldesign. If I wanted to slog through weeks of boredom to get a minor reward, I'd go sign up for WoW or just whip out my old diablo II CDs. I'm actually looking forward to using heat and I like the idea as designed overall, but I exhort the devs to reconsider this unnecessary prereq, as it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. (don't forget about the Logistics V prereq for the Triage Module, I mean come on dude...) |
Altaris Dorrick
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:27:00 -
[6]
I also do not understand CCP's reasoning behind the heavy skill requirements for Thermodynamics (and thus heat). If it's a balancing problem they're worried about, longer skill times will do nothing but temporarily restrict the skill to high level players that happen to have trained EM V already.
If it's a question of skill sinks, then it's a pretty lame tactic to introduce a cool new feature simply to eat skill points. Like others here, I have no problem with the Eng V and Sci IV requirements, but all the EM V requirement is doing is preventing players from making use of a feature that there's no reason to deny them. Reduce tye requirement to EM IV and the required skills will actually correspond to the supposed benefits fairly well.
|
Valeo Galaem
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:27:00 -
[7]
I haven't been able to access Sisi lately so I'll ask: are we sure that the Thermodynamics skill is needed to be able to overload modules at all, or only to receive the damage reduction bonus? If the later is true, then I don't see much of a problem with having the skill have high requirements. Personally, however, I think that one of the prereqs should be dropped from level 5 to level 4.
Thar be Pirates
You are not authorised to hack into CONCORD's mainframe
Your Wallet has been emptied!
CONCORD Encryption Methods |
Thanos Mortis
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:32:00 -
[8]
energy management 5 is a useful skill that should be trained 
-
|
Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 18:37:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 07/06/2007 18:40:35
Heat isn't for everyone, it is just to give you an edge as all other skills in game not to mention the path to Tech 3.
Keep the requirements as they are.
And yes, I still need to do Energy Management lvl 5 on this char.
We're sorry, something happened.
|
n0thing
omen.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 19:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Thanos Mortis
energy management 5 is a useful skill that should be trained
Not on the first 6 month plan, however. 13-4 days can be put into Medium *race* turret V rather and yeld alot more results.
---
|
|
|
MotherMoon
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 19:10:00 -
[11]
it will lead into the new skill nicely. just another path to T3.
|
Dixon
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 19:23:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Dixon on 07/06/2007 19:23:15
I say keep the EM 5 and make it science 5 as well. And make it a rank 5 skill with another rank 8 advanced skill to follow (make lvl5 a prerequisite for that). I'm running out of things to train here.
|
Dixon
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 19:24:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dixon on 07/06/2007 19:23:07
|
n0thing
omen.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 19:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dixon
Edited by: Dixon on 07/06/2007 19:23:15
I say keep the EM 5 and make it science 5 as well. And make it a rank 5 skill with another rank 8 advanced skill to follow (make lvl5 a prerequisite for that). I'm running out of things to train here.
Hm, so maxxed out CS/BS pilots will now be even stronger?
Maybe make Industry and Veldspar processing to V before you can fly a a dread?
/sarcasm off
For real, if you running out of things to train, max out all 4 races. Im more then sure that to max out 4 racial T2 ships/T2 guns/Capitals is alot of time.
---
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 19:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Valeo Galaem
are we sure that the Thermodynamics skill is needed to be able to overload modules at all
Yes.
I extra deleted a char of mine (my jita market alt with 5 bil isk  ) to be able to make a new one and test it without that skill.
You need thermodynamics lvl 1 to overheat modules.
(Well, technically you do not because the check is a bit buggy right now, you get a "you need thermodynamics lvl 1 to..." when you try to toggle overloading but it still overloads the module.)
|
xphreakx
Caldari
Colony.
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 19:52:00 -
[16]
Should be Engineering 5, Science 5 just like every other science skill. Dictor pilots need those two to launch probes, because they need Graviton Physics 1.
-----------
-phreak
Help keep eve clean. Join 'macrointel'. |
Bruno Bonner
Gallente
Lutin Group
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:23:00 -
[17]
This thermodynamics skill does "unlock" the heat features? or is just to minimize its effect? If its the first, bad decision, if its the latter good.
Besides i would name it "Cooling Systems Operations" so it falls inline with the shiled and capacitor skill names and people associate it with the ability to keep heat in check.
regards
Bruno
------
aka BinderAJ |
Gavin Darklighter
|
Posted - 2007.06.07 21:35:00 -
[18]
This is getting a bit frustrating. I started playing this game a bit less than a year ago and it seems like the requirments needed to do the things I want to do just keep getting higher and higher when I start approaching my goal.
The first big thing I went for was T2 torps but they were nerfed to uselessness 2 days after I finished it.
After that I went after large T2 turrets to be able to fly a fleet sniper, but I finished that right after the titan made capitals the true fleet ships and reduced BS to support roles.
So now I'm on my way to carriers and they add the stupid useless pre-req for the new triage module.
As if thats not bad enough, now I need to train another rank 3 skill with attributes I'm not spec'ed for (I went for per/will) in order to use a major new game feature.
It feels like the skills I need to compete are growing faster than I can train them. I can only imagine what It must feel like for a new player trying to break into the game now.
|
franny
Phoenix Knights
Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 04:16:00 -
[19]
\/ already having all 3 at lvl 5 ftw
|
Merin Ryskin
FinFleet
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 04:34:00 -
[20]
What the hell... as if the absurd requirements for bombs weren't enough? Stop spending tons of time on new features of questionable value and then putting pointless time sink prerequisites on them just to be sure nobody actually uses it.
|
|
|
MotherMoon
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 04:37:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
This is getting a bit frustrating. I started playing this game a bit less than a year ago and it seems like the requirments needed to do the things I want to do just keep getting higher and higher when I start approaching my goal.
The first big thing I went for was T2 torps but they were nerfed to uselessness 2 days after I finished it.
After that I went after large T2 turrets to be able to fly a fleet sniper, but I finished that right after the titan made capitals the true fleet ships and reduced BS to support roles.
So now I'm on my way to carriers and they add the stupid useless pre-req for the new triage module.
As if thats not bad enough, now I need to train another rank 3 skill with attributes I'm not spec'ed for (I went for per/will) in order to use a major new game feature.
It feels like the skills I need to compete are growing faster than I can train them. I can only imagine what It must feel like for a new player trying to break into the game now.
well they are making battle ships the new pos killers
and it does take 24 years to train every skill in EvE :P
it's not really a feature it's just a new something you ship can do once you get to that point.
triage mode pointless skill? you can't have everything for free mate
|
Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 05:11:00 -
[22]
why not drop EM to 4 and have science 5 and then perhaps a EM-science advanced skill that is trainable ie thermodynamics
|
Gavin Darklighter
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 11:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: MotherMoon
triage mode pointless skill? you can't have everything for free mate
No triage mode is going to be awesome I think, its the logistics V (rank SIX) pre-req that I think is a bit over the top.
The advanced weapon upgrades V pre-req for siege is supposed to be ballanced agianst the drone interfacing V pre-req for carriers, but now to be fully functional a carrier pilot has to train another high-rank skill to level five.
But thats an issue for another thread.
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 11:22:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
The advanced weapon upgrades V pre-req for siege is supposed to be ballanced agianst the drone interfacing V pre-req for carriers, but now to be fully functional a carrier pilot has to train another high-rank skill to level five.
Not really. Dreads also need lvl 5 large weapons + gunnery 5 to train for their capital class turrets skills. That is just as much SP as training DI 5 and leadership 5 needs.
|
Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 11:31:00 -
[25]
I am only annoyed that CCP will probably lower the skill reqs. randomly again if enough people complain... 
When will they finally understand that this is _not_ the way to rebalance costs.
|
Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 12:19:00 -
[26]
The skill requirements are most likely because of heat being heavily tied in to future tech 3 items. And they're pretty much essential skills to train anyway 
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
|
Phearsome Wun
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 02:16:00 -
[27]
I am a new pilot (month and a half of EVE), and generally, I have been pretty frustrated with the fact that I am seriously disadvantaged in solo PvP due to the fact that I haven't spent months training up certain skills. Thus, I was pretty excited when I read the TenTopHammer interview with Magnus Bergsson regarding Revelations 2.0 and found out about the addition of heat:
Originally by: Magnus
Heat definitely adds more things to worry about, but it also gives the player more things to work with on the ship that could benefit them in combat. This comes down to the idea that PvP should be really skill based and not skill points based.
Ok, I pretty much got used to the idea that I would have to spend a week training up engineering to level 5, and energy management level 4 was on my list of things to do too. But 768000 sp for level 5 just so I can use heat?
So much for the idea of PvP being skill based and not skill points based...
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 04:35:00 -
[28]
I wasn't interested in heat before the patch, but considered I might eventually find some use for it. However now I'm positively certain I will NEVER use heat due to the skill requirements.
I mean, it sucked before because of the mechanics, now it's just not worth using even for comedy.
|
Seriya
Caldari
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 08:24:00 -
[29]
The requirement of Energy Management 5 is bad. This is a BIG new feature - it's the main thing the devs have been hyping for months, it's introduction includes a noticable change to the interface and there are controls for it built right into the front of the GUI... and I need to sink 768,000 sp into a prerequesite to try it?? I was lukewarm about heat *before* I found that out, now I'm not going to play with it for months since I have a bunch of other priorities (AWU IV, Astrometrics V, T2 Gunnery all seem sexier, sorry!)
Yes Energy Management is very useful but the fifth level is a big timesink. CCP made exactly this same mistake when they introduced the Survey and Jury Rigging skills and ended up lowering the requirements after a while. I hope they do the same here, as otherwise I won't be playing with heat for quite some time.
|
Der Ewige
Cataclysm Enterprises
Kraftwerk.
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 08:44:00 -
[30]
Let's get it straight.
If you don't know how to use the overload feature, you will kill yourself more often than you save yourself by using heat.
Maybe CCP just wanted a high prerequisite to prevent noobs from committing mass suicide by overloading there shield boosters?
-------
http://www.stillbruch.ch |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |