Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: The Ender on 08/06/2007 22:12:04 I had a online small Caldari control tower. It had a forcefield password, which was verified to be operational by myself. It had 3 online Mobile labs that I was using to research BPOs.
The POS came under attack...
2007.06.02 10:59
Attacked object: Caldari Control Tower Small Current Shield Level: 99% Current Armor Integrity: 100% Current Hull Integrity: 100%
I decided to go along and offline the 3 mobile labs and take them away before the POS went into reinforced as I would be unable to defend the POS. I was on my way until I got this in my inbox...
2007.06.02 13:19
Alliance: NONE Corp: *** Destroyed: Mobile Laboratory Moon: *** VI - Moon 6 System: *** Security: 0.3
then this...
2007.06.02 13:19
Alliance: NONE Corp: *** Destroyed: Mobile Laboratory Moon: *** VI - Moon 6 System: *** Security: 0.3
then this...
2007.06.02 13:20
Alliance: NONE Corp: *** Destroyed: Mobile Laboratory Moon: *** VI - Moon 6 System: *** Security: 0.3
Shortly after receiving these I get this...
2007.06.02 14:03
Attacked object: Caldari Control Tower Small Current Shield Level: 68% Current Armor Integrity: 100% Current Hull Integrity: 100%
So obviously the tower was online and operational, but they still managed to kill the labs inside.
I petitioned the loss of the labs, however according to the GMs there was no circumvention of game mechanics nor the usage of any exploit.
Any one know how this happened?
And just an FYI to you all. There is a way to kill structures inside a POS field that has a password on.
Regards,
The Ender
|
Alora Venoda
Caldari GalTech
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:15:00 -
[2]
smartbombs?
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:18:00 -
[3]
Edited by: The Ender on 08/06/2007 22:17:12
Originally by: Alora Venoda smartbombs?
Sorry, maybe should have contained the whole killmail...
2007.06.02 13:19
Alliance: NONE Corp: *** Destroyed: Mobile Laboratory Moon: *** VI - Moon 6 System: *** Security: 0.3
Involved parties:
Name: *** (laid the final blow) Security: *** Alliance: NONE Corp: *** Ship: Armageddon Weapon: Tachyon Beam Laser II
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:20:00 -
[4]
That is freaky. I wonder how he did it. Someone, answer the man! --------
|
Astasia Orian
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:22:00 -
[5]
Structures outside shield radius?
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Astasia Orian Structures outside shield radius?
But then you can't anchor the structure.
|
PartyVaN
Minmatar The Hand Trade Alliance FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:25:00 -
[7]
just wondering - why did you not fit any guns? Or did you?
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:28:00 -
[8]
Was the password easily guessable? Did it contain a mix of random letters and numbers, or was it a single short word? ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: PartyVaN just wondering - why did you not fit any guns? Or did you?
3 labs on a small POS don't leave much CPU. I knew the risks, and was prepared to take them. I can afford the loss after all, but am not prepared to take a loss that is unexplainable and appear to be an exploit
Obviously the GMs know how it was achieved and they deem it to be within the game mechanics and not an exploit.
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Was the password easily guessable? Did it contain a mix of random letters and numbers, or was it a single short word?
9 letters, inlcuding a single number.
|
|
Jita Alt
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:29:00 -
[11]
Escalate the petition to a senior GM
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jita Alt Escalate the petition to a senior GM
I have done so.
I just posted here to see if it was known to anyone already, save wasting unnecessary GM time.
|
Jita Alt
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:33:00 -
[13]
Well, i've heard of ships getting shot inside a POS shield, never heard of POS mods getting shot though Shooting ships inside the shield is supposed to be an exploit though so i don't see how this should be any different
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:34:00 -
[14]
Thanks to you all.
It does seem there is a legitimate case, just wanted to be sure.
If someone told me that they knew how it was done I was gonna close the petition.
Will keep it open for now.
Thanks,
The Ender
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 22:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: The Ender Thanks to you all.
It does seem there is a legitimate case, just wanted to be sure.
If someone told me that they knew how it was done I was gonna close the petition.
Will keep it open for now.
Thanks,
The Ender
Request it be escalated. The GM you talked to probably just didn't get it. --------
|
Alora Venoda
Caldari GalTech
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:00:00 -
[16]
maybe they found some way to shoot through the shield while bumping into it or something - possibly related to the "bowling" exploit.
but is it possible to even target-lock objects inside a POS shield from the outside with no password access?
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Sparta Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alora Venoda maybe they found some way to shoot through the shield while bumping into it or something - possibly related to the "bowling" exploit.
but is it possible to even target-lock objects inside a POS shield from the outside with no password access?
I thought not. --------
|
Major Stormer
Caldari Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:04:00 -
[18]
You cannot lock stuff inside a POS shield, password or not. Once the POS is offline/shield disabled, you can.
Seems rather odd really.
--------- Its just a game. Get over yourselfs. www.eve-tribune.com Dont get too excited now.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:10:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 08/06/2007 23:11:48 I'm not familiar with the way that these things work, but is it possible that the tower ran out of fuel (with no strontium in reserve) and went offline, leaving the labs completely open to attack? The tower itself would still have had a lot of HP and would have taken ages to kill with a battleship, so the attacker might not have bothered.
//edit: I suppose not, after re-reading the OP...
*scratches head* ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar THE R0NIN
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:16:00 -
[20]
Have you asked the attacker, how they were able to lock the labs? As long as the POS was online there should have been none method of locking a module inside the forcefield.
|
|
Alora Venoda
Caldari GalTech
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I'm not familiar with the way that these things work, but is it possible that the tower ran out of fuel (with no strontium in reserve) and went offline, leaving the labs completely open to attack? The tower itself would still have had a lot of HP and would have taken ages to kill with a battleship, so the attacker might not have bothered.
according to the report, it had 68% shields after the labs were destroyed. so i don't think it went offline at any point. plus i believe it would have sent a evemail notification about being offline if that was the case. furthermore, i believe that simply not having stront would only prevent the reinforced mode and cause it to continue to lose shields like any other object.
there must have been some kind of exploit/bug, or the OP is leaving out some crucial info. there is no other explanation, since this chain of events directly contradicts the purpose and function of the POS shields.
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Alora Venoda
Caldari GalTech
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Helison Have you asked the attacker, how they were able to lock the labs? As long as the POS was online there should have been none method of locking a module inside the forcefield.
if they exploited a bug or something, i doubt they would admit it. expect silly answers like "it was magic."
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
MorbidPenguin
Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:26:00 -
[23]
Edited by: MorbidPenguin on 08/06/2007 23:25:20 This happened to a friend's POS a while ago. Same thing happened - Tower was online but several anchored and online structures inside were shot and the tower was left. Friend petitioned, GM said the same thing: It was not an exploit but he couldn't go into details. That was that; my friend never escalated it (although perhaps he should have) and we have never found out how the hell it happened.
Very interested in this topic. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie Join in-game channel Hard-Recruiting to get signed up. |
Leonard Darwin
Rosewood Productions
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:31:00 -
[24]
What if someone from his corp (or had POS access) ganged the people shooting his POS, would that allow them to target modules inside?
|
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:34:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Elmicker on 08/06/2007 23:34:09
Originally by: The Ender 3 labs on a small POS don't leave much CPU.
Guns dont use any CPU
Originally by: Leonard Darwin What if someone from his corp (or had POS access) ganged the people shooting his POS, would that allow them to target modules inside?
No. There is no way, at all, to target POS modules, while the POS is online. At least until Rev 2.0 hits, anyway. That's one of the core principles of POS warfare, i'm very surprised for the GMs to admit there's a way to do it without breaking the rules.
|
Lady Natacha
Minmatar Water and Power
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:39:00 -
[26]
If you get a similar response from the senior GM saying basically "it is not an exploit" ask them if any defense existed for your structures anchored inside the POS bubble other than you being there with a fleet to defend.
|
Pan Crastus
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:42:00 -
[27]
There used to be an exploit with a passive targeter, BoC used that one extensively. If the GM told you that there was no exploit, kindly ask him to tell you how it's done, it can only be an exploit/bug or a feature that should be known/documented. I have never seen any documentation about such a possibility, so if it exists, we should be told.
|
Toppar Wear
STK Scientific Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:43:00 -
[28]
Passive targeners allowed you to lock up ships inside pos sheilds.. This might work with mods.. Who knows
|
CiderKing
Gallente Perpetua Umbra Brotherhood Of Steel
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 23:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: MorbidPenguin Edited by: MorbidPenguin on 08/06/2007 23:25:20 This happened to a friend's POS a while ago. Same thing happened - Tower was online but several anchored and online structures inside were shot and the tower was left. Friend petitioned, GM said the same thing: It was not an exploit but he couldn't go into details. That was that; my friend never escalated it (although perhaps he should have) and we have never found out how the hell it happened.
Very interested in this topic.
^thats me^
Same thing, expect my pos was in 0.0 with guns. 1 battleship and 1 HAC totaled my small pos. No way in hell could they have done it in one night. (not even counting the 14 hours of stront)
I filed a petition, got no where with it. I'll try to complain more now that someone else has the same issue.
-Cider
|
Kamal Drax
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 00:17:00 -
[30]
Watching thread with great interest...
|
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 01:15:00 -
[31]
Nothing said here proves that the POS was online when attacked. Mails are sent out even when the tower is online. Did you actually fly there and see the shield being up with no modules left?
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 01:15:00 -
[32]
Nothing said here proves that the POS was online when attacked. Mails are sent out even when the tower is online. Did you actually fly there and see the shield being up with no modules left?
Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:04:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Phoenix Lord on 09/06/2007 02:03:03 How would the shield have been damaged if the POS was offline?
EDIT: or does the POS still have shield while offline, just not the bubble?
Arrow Capital Ship Sales |
Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:04:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Phoenix Lord on 09/06/2007 02:03:03 How would the shield have been damaged if the POS was offline?
EDIT: or does the POS still have shield while offline, just not the bubble?
Arrow Capital Ship Sales |
Trollin
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:15:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Trollin on 09/06/2007 02:17:07
POS have "shield" even when offline, I have been on an op to remove offline pos, and they have a shield value that must be reduced to 0 to begin on armor, even with no bubble up.
1. you run out of fuel 1.5 bubble drops, allowing labs to be targeted 2. attackers begin on the tower, which still has a "shield" value and realize it will take DAYS to kill 3. they target and pop the labs easy 4. they work more on the tower, but decide its not worth the ammo. --------------------------------------------------- A word to the wise ain't necessary, its the stupid ones that need the advice |
Vactet
Immortalis Silens FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:17:00 -
[36]
The shield was taking damage...hence the pos was online. Its when the pos goes offline that the sheilds come down and let people shoot the stuff inside. So...this is just kinda strange. ANd if the GM's say its not an exploit...then there is no reason they cannot go into details. If it is an exploit then they couldnt go into detail for obvious reason. Its very fishy that the GM knew what was done to enable your labs to be destroyed...yet didnt share the info. Escalate it and if you continue to get BS about "Not an exploit but i cant tell you" then theres a serious issue with conflict of interest. Id go and ask other communities (Scrapheap) where the rules of EVE dont apply. Someone might be able to tell you there what was done or atleast be able to say the GM was full of poo.
Personally..i think the GM you spoke to is blowing smoke up your rear. He either knows and for some reason (NOT gonna say it) wont tell you. Or he is inept. Or ..something else?
Depending on how this all goes for ya, id consider this to be one of the issues for the oversight folks to look into, seems fishy to me.
Delivering the kick to the jaw of society to stop it from drooling on itself like the ignorant slop it is since 1984.
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed.
|
Trollin
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 02:23:00 -
[37]
I already said, shield is an independent number/entity than the actual bubble
if you have a tower and free moon handy, you can see for yourself, anchor it, and it will have what appear to be a full shield, even tho u have not onlined it.
fire at it for a few minutes, and you will maybe see the shield go down a little if you have enough DPS. --------------------------------------------------- A word to the wise ain't necessary, its the stupid ones that need the advice |
Isis Dea
Minmatar Aspi-Vore Xenosaders North Star Confederation
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 14:24:00 -
[38]
Keep in mind the "force field" is not the "Shield" of the tower. ___
|
MellaRinn
Exit 13 Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 14:34:00 -
[39]
IMHO you jsut ran out of fuel to run the tower (whether you had stront or not is irrelevant).
The attackers jsut popped the labs and tried the tower as well, but CBA'ed to finish the tower off. Like a few above said, Shield is not Force Field of a POS.
My Vids - Click |
Gladia Horusthu
Gallente Anything Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 14:38:00 -
[40]
It seems to me that the GM's wouldn't necessarily divulge how something happens if it is legitimate. Lack of documentation is intentional, as those who discover new tricks are supposed to be rewarded with a monopoly on those tricks till others wise up. Been that way since day one. So I don't necessarily expect that the OP will get a satisfactory response detailing how it happened. The game was designed with anti-transparency in mind :P
|
|
stoats
The Aftermath
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 15:23:00 -
[41]
Probably ran out of fuel, we've popped labs on towers like this in the past. The tower has shield (and a lot of it) when it's offline.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 15:42:00 -
[42]
I can not find quickly the post(s) in question, I'll leave that to the forum search squad. I can tell you however with 100% certainty that somebody in the CCP team (some GM or some dev, again, can't recall) explicitly stated that...
OFFLINED/UNANCHORED STRUCTURES INSIDE POS SHIELDS (AS WELL AS UNPILOTED SHIPS INSIDE POS SHIELDS) CAN BE TARGETTED AND DESTROYED (or in case of ships, also boarded).
"Not an exploit, just another undocumented feature". _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ron White
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 15:47:00 -
[43]
Originally by: The Ender
Originally by: PartyVaN just wondering - why did you not fit any guns? Or did you?
3 labs on a small POS don't leave much CPU. I knew the risks, and was prepared to take them. I can afford the loss after all, but am not prepared to take a loss that is unexplainable and appear to be an exploit
Obviously the GMs know how it was achieved and they deem it to be within the game mechanics and not an exploit.
Was it attacked by a member of Bob? They seem to not be able to do exploits.... well not till later when its ruled a exploit... and then punishment in EVE isnt backwards compatible
"You cant fix stupid" |
Esau Cairn
Bombshell Cartel
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 16:11:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ron White Was it attacked by a member of Bob? They seem to not be able to do exploits.... well not till later when its ruled a exploit... and then punishment in EVE isnt backwards compatible
Ah. I wondered how long it was gonna be before the tinfoil hat brigade showed up. You guys never quit, do you? Trying to kill BoB with innuendo because you can't figure out how to do it with pew-pew?
Sad.
|
Ricdic
Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 16:18:00 -
[45]
Interesting... And yeh, we really need to drop the whole BoB charade.
|
Ron White
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 16:43:00 -
[46]
Yes we need to drop it when it stops being true.... POS Bowling wasnt a exploit till after bob used it....
Geeeee "You cant fix stupid" |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 17:16:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ron White Yes we need to drop it when it stops being true.... POS Bowling wasnt a exploit till after bob used it....
Geeeee
QFT
Quote:
Originally by: CCP kieron
If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs. |
Neveren
Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 17:43:00 -
[48]
you forgot to fuel your tower? only way they can attack somthing inside the shield is if the Shield is not up.
So yes, they were eating the shields on the tower thus the mails..
but that shield does not mean the tower was online
STC recruiting!
|
Zalathar
Minmatar Biometaloid INC
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 17:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Akita T I can not find quickly the post(s) in question, I'll leave that to the forum search squad. I can tell you however with 100% certainty that somebody in the CCP team (some GM or some dev, again, can't recall) explicitly stated that...
OFFLINED/UNANCHORED STRUCTURES INSIDE POS SHIELDS (AS WELL AS UNPILOTED SHIPS INSIDE POS SHIELDS) CAN BE TARGETTED AND DESTROYED (or in case of ships, also boarded).
"Not an exploit, just another undocumented feature".
ok, this is interesting... were the structures packaged?
~~~~~~ *mods, if you think i'm ugly please say "eeek!"* ~~~~~~
eeeeeekk - Deckard eeeeee...K -Darth Patches |
Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 17:59:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Korizan on 09/06/2007 18:01:09 If you are inside the Force Field you can target anything.
So if you set up your POS at a the 0 warp in point at any direction then someone could warp in and target any mod and attack before they get removed.
So anyone with a bookmark to the center of your POS could also sell that to someone for a little cash and well you can see where it goes from there.
Not sure if that is an exploit or not as you are not in real space while warping so the force field would have no effect.
But maybe that is how it was done
|
|
Ray McCormack
BIG
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 18:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Korizan So anyone with a bookmark to the center of your POS could also sell that to someone for a little cash and well you can see where it goes from there.
Or you could just setup a warp-in point using a gang mate to drop you in the middle.
| Researched Capital Component BPOs Auction | BMBE ISK Loans | |
Korizan
Oort Cloud Industries
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 18:15:00 -
[52]
Yup that would work with no problems. And a much simpler solution.
If a POS doesn't have any guns you could do it all day without issues. Or even one or 2 ineffective ones that could be tanked.
|
MorbidPenguin
Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 18:31:00 -
[53]
That wouldn't work because you can't target anything while you're inside the force field of the POS.
Join in-game channel Hard-Recruiting to get signed up. |
Druadan
Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 19:11:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Druadan on 09/06/2007 19:10:42
Originally by: Korizan If you are inside the Force Field you can target anything.
So if you set up your POS at a the 0 warp in point at any direction then someone could warp in and target any mod and attack before they get removed.
So anyone with a bookmark to the center of your POS could also sell that to someone for a little cash and well you can see where it goes from there.
Not sure if that is an exploit or not as you are not in real space while warping so the force field would have no effect.
And if they get wedged in by anchored items then they could sit there all day.
But maybe that is how it was done
Incorrect.
Originally by: MorbidPenguin That wouldn't work because you can't target anything while you're inside the force field of the POS.
Correct. __________________________________________________
"A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire |
Mr HardLuck
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 21:06:00 -
[55]
It seems to me that once you offlined your labs they fell under the "offlined mods are able to be targeted" mechanic and therefore became lockable/killable? even before the shields came down...
If this is indeed the case and the POS Bubble was still up/operational then I'm confused as to why CCP allows the POS Shield, not the Tower shields, to be circumvented like this...
Anyways like I said seems to me thats what happened...not sure what recourse you can take best of luck to you.
LT
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:28:00 -
[56]
I have just read all the interest gathered here. I am yet to log on to see if the Senior GM has replied but at this point I will state that the POS forcefield was up, the tower had been refueled the night before for a full 8 days worth.
The tower went into reinforced with 12 hours worth of Stront in it and at this point the labs were destroyed. I also double checked to see if the password was still in effect and indeed it was.
The labs were also anchored and online as they were in use at the time.
WIll post results...
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:30:00 -
[57]
Senior GMs must be getting an awful lot of escalations as it's now over 24 hours without reply from them :(
|
Acama Asante
Amarr Unity Star
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:40:00 -
[58]
Originally by: The Ender Senior GMs must be getting an awful lot of escalations as it's now over 24 hours without reply from them :(
Quick question - was all the pos fuel for the 8 days in one stack? I've heard of POSes going through one stack and then the shield going down, without "realising" there is more there. This may have been fixed some time ago though.
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:43:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Acama Asante
Originally by: The Ender Senior GMs must be getting an awful lot of escalations as it's now over 24 hours without reply from them :(
Quick question - was all the pos fuel for the 8 days in one stack? I've heard of POSes going through one stack and then the shield going down, without "realising" there is more there. This may have been fixed some time ago though.
To the best of my knowledge it was in a single stack. It didn't run out of fuel as the forcefield was still up and the tower went into reinforced. At this point when the attackers had retired I went to the tower to see if I could see anything awry, and the tower was indeed online at this time.
|
Minmatar baby
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 22:46:00 -
[60]
seems to be a bug/exploit to me..
|
|
Veest
FinFleet
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:28:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Acama Asante
Originally by: The Ender Senior GMs must be getting an awful lot of escalations as it's now over 24 hours without reply from them :(
Quick question - was all the pos fuel for the 8 days in one stack? I've heard of POSes going through one stack and then the shield going down, without "realising" there is more there. This may have been fixed some time ago though.
I belive that the POS storage 'auto stacks' stuff these days, so that theory wouldn't come into it.
|
Bippa
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:43:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Ron White Yes we need to drop it when it stops being true.... POS Bowling wasnt a exploit till after bob used it....
Actually, your facts are wrong. It wasn't an exploit as long as BoB were the only ones doing it or at least not having it done to them. When AAA bumped a BoB carrier out of a pos and killed it, it was declared an exploit within two weeks.
|
DukeJoost1
The Last Solution Inc
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:53:00 -
[63]
Edited by: DukeJoost1 on 09/06/2007 23:53:03 From the FAQ http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_12.asp :
Quote:
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö Due to the ever-changing dynamics involved with maintaining a virtual, persistent world, it can sometimes be difficult or confusing to determine what might be considered an exploit.
If there is a use of the game mechanics and/or the game rules, which allows the behaviour as described by the OP, all players should be made aware of this possibility.
It is rather impossible to abide by the rules of this game when all are not aware of the rules and game mechanics !! So in my opinion the GMs should communicate on how this is possible soon(tm).
This points to the urgent requirement of updated documentation ... especially on all "new" parts of the game, such as pos, invention, capitals, probing which were added to get more new players in. Despite the fact all original parts of the game are still rather buggy : reload all ? warp to zero ehh one ?
Lets play some chess : pawn E2-E4, checkmate !, not possible, yes i changed the rules !!
|
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.06.09 23:55:00 -
[64]
ok go ahead and start writing them
and good luck
Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 00:08:00 -
[65]
Oh for chrissake...
Quote: OFFLINED/UNANCHORED STRUCTURES INSIDE POS SHIELDS (AS WELL AS UNPILOTED SHIPS INSIDE POS SHIELDS) CAN BE TARGETTED AND DESTROYED (or in case of ships, also boarded).
...don't you people READ ? _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Dilsnik
Celestial Horizon Corp.
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 00:21:00 -
[66]
When you quote something, always cite who said it, where, and when. If possible, give a link. |
MorbidPenguin
Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 00:28:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Akita T Oh for chrissake...
Quote: OFFLINED/UNANCHORED STRUCTURES INSIDE POS SHIELDS (AS WELL AS UNPILOTED SHIPS INSIDE POS SHIELDS) CAN BE TARGETTED AND DESTROYED (or in case of ships, also boarded).
...don't you people READ ?
Don't you READ? The mobile labs were online and anchored. Same with my friend's POS.
Join in-game channel Hard-Recruiting to get signed up. |
Larusonyc Dleif
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 00:28:00 -
[68]
I think several people have struck the right answer here.
If your tower is offline, you have no protective forcefield, but the tower itself still has shields. With no forcefield, you can pop all the anchored structures, loot the wrecks, and leave the tower alone if you dont have the guns to kill it.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 00:30:00 -
[69]
Originally by: MorbidPenguin Don't you READ? The mobile labs were online and anchored. Same with my friend's POS.
you're right Walked right into that one. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ron White
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 01:11:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Larusonyc Dleif I think several people have struck the right answer here.
If your tower is offline, you have no protective forcefield, but the tower itself still has shields. With no forcefield, you can pop all the anchored structures, loot the wrecks, and leave the tower alone if you dont have the guns to kill it.
BUT if the tower ISNT offline...
Considering several times now dude has stated the tower wasnt offline
"You cant fix stupid" |
|
Larusonyc Dleif
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 01:26:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ron White
Originally by: Larusonyc Dleif I think several people have struck the right answer here.
If your tower is offline, you have no protective forcefield, but the tower itself still has shields. With no forcefield, you can pop all the anchored structures, loot the wrecks, and leave the tower alone if you dont have the guns to kill it.
BUT if the tower ISNT offline...
Considering several times now dude has stated the tower wasnt offline
Yes it must be super haxor!!!! its leet bobhaxwinrar!!!!
Or, he could be wrong and the tower went offline. I can tell you this from obviously way more experience with POS warfare than you have: you can not even target things from inside a forcefield. You can not target things from inside the forcefield. If a shield password is set there is absolutely no possible way to blow up things that are inside a forcefield.
Therefore: Either the tower was offline, or some random noobs in lowsec discovered the superleethaxomgwin@thegame method for blowing up pos modules from an online, forcefielded, passworded POS. Which of those sounds more likely? Based off your "can't fix stupid" quote, you may not even be able to tell. Oh well.
|
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising Vigilance Infinitas
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 02:16:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Elmicker on 10/06/2007 02:15:37
Originally by: Bippa Actually, your facts are wrong. It wasn't an exploit as long as BoB were the only ones doing it or at least not having it done to them. When AAA bumped a BoB carrier out of a pos and killed it, it was declared an exploit within two weeks.
Leave the CAOD **** in CAOD, please. All parties who had the opportunity did it, and all were well documented as doing so, often long before the bandwagon jumped on the "bobdevhaxsploits" train. The least you could do is post with your main.
I'm absolutely stumped. I've been dealing with POSes for a year, now, and i can't for the life of me think of any situation why a module (or for that matter why anything) inside an online POS would be targetable from the outside or the inside.
One of the current core principles of POSes is that nothing, except the tower, inside the forcefield, is targetable while the tower is online and the forcefield password set. If there is a way, well. That could just about revolutionise pre-Rev2.0 POS warefare.
Unfortunately, i dont have access to any POSes atm to test, but the only thing i can think of is that while you have the POS password entered you may be able to target things inside the POS forcefield (ostensibly for remote repping purposes). If someone would be able to test that, it'd probably help. However, that mean they have your POS password, though that would explain the GM's reluctance to tell you how they shot the mods, due to the rules about interference with ingame matters.
|
Terminal Entry
New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 02:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Akita T I can not find quickly the post(s) in question, I'll leave that to the forum search squad. I can tell you however with 100% certainty that somebody in the CCP team (some GM or some dev, again, can't recall) explicitly stated that...
OFFLINED/UNANCHORED STRUCTURES INSIDE POS SHIELDS (AS WELL AS UNPILOTED SHIPS INSIDE POS SHIELDS) CAN BE TARGETTED AND DESTROYED (or in case of ships, also boarded).
"Not an exploit, just another undocumented feature".
I just tested it out, tried to lock an offline structure within the bubble of an online POS and was unable to lock it.
Originally by: CCP kieron If you feel we as an entity are corrupt and abhorrent, we bid you good luck in finding a game and company that suits your interests.
|
Ron White
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 03:25:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Larusonyc Dleif
Originally by: Ron White
Originally by: Larusonyc Dleif I think several people have struck the right answer here.
If your tower is offline, you have no protective forcefield, but the tower itself still has shields. With no forcefield, you can pop all the anchored structures, loot the wrecks, and leave the tower alone if you dont have the guns to kill it.
BUT if the tower ISNT offline...
Considering several times now dude has stated the tower wasnt offline
Yes it must be super haxor!!!! its leet bobhaxwinrar!!!!
Or, he could be wrong and the tower went offline. I can tell you this from obviously way more experience with POS warfare than you have: you can not even target things from inside a forcefield. You can not target things from inside the forcefield. If a shield password is set there is absolutely no possible way to blow up things that are inside a forcefield.
Therefore: Either the tower was offline, or some random noobs in lowsec discovered the superleethaxomgwin@thegame method for blowing up pos modules from an online, forcefielded, passworded POS. Which of those sounds more likely? Based off your "can't fix stupid" quote, you may not even be able to tell. Oh well.
OOOOoooooooo Uber leet 1337 1111one one!!!!
Yer e***** has destroyed me utterly!!! IVE never even BEEN to a POS I was just noting that the dude in this thread has sed a billion times that the tower was online...
And... Dumbass... Look up Ron White some time on Wikki or something an you'll understand "my 'you cant fix stupid quote'" ITS A COMEDY ROUTINE Deal with it lol
"You cant fix stupid" |
scabbsssjr
Gallente M'8'S Frontal Impact
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 03:31:00 -
[75]
Heres a quick idea.
When the shield is under attack it shrinks. You lost 1/3 of your shield so some of the stuff near the edge would be open to attack. Since a small pos has a small shield radius it appears as if you had your stuff to close to the edge. ---------------------------
Originally by: Ductoris At this rate I'm going to ask for a BOB sub-forum.
|
Macs Nairegin
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 03:34:00 -
[76]
Originally by: scabbsssjr Heres a quick idea.
When the shield is under attack it shrinks.
Total misunderstanding of POS mechanics ftw
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 15:02:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Macs Nairegin
Originally by: scabbsssjr Heres a quick idea.
When the shield is under attack it shrinks.
Total misunderstanding of POS mechanics ftw
Well me modules were near the edge of the shield but anchored within the defined distances from the control tower. This could be a plausible explanation if this is indeed the case.
However, it would also be another undocumented feature by CCP.
|
hithereguys
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 15:44:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Terminal Entry
Originally by: Akita T I can not find quickly the post(s) in question, I'll leave that to the forum search squad. I can tell you however with 100% certainty that somebody in the CCP team (some GM or some dev, again, can't recall) explicitly stated that...
OFFLINED/UNANCHORED STRUCTURES INSIDE POS SHIELDS (AS WELL AS UNPILOTED SHIPS INSIDE POS SHIELDS) CAN BE TARGETTED AND DESTROYED (or in case of ships, also boarded).
"Not an exploit, just another undocumented feature".
I just tested it out, tried to lock an offline structure within the bubble of an online POS and was unable to lock it.
Fit a passive targeter and try again
|
Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:00:00 -
[79]
Originally by: The Ender
Originally by: Macs Nairegin
Originally by: scabbsssjr Heres a quick idea.
When the shield is under attack it shrinks.
Total misunderstanding of POS mechanics ftw
Well me modules were near the edge of the shield but anchored within the defined distances from the control tower. This could be a plausible explanation if this is indeed the case.
However, it would also be another undocumented feature by CCP.
Um holy crap, POS shields dont shrink man :P
And near the edge doesnt mean outside of the shield.
Arrow Capital Ship Sales |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:11:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 10/06/2007 16:11:11 I've seldomly seen a single thread with more bull**** being offered as truth in it.
Firstly, there never was a passive targeter exploit. I know, 'cause I was one of the guys supposedly using it to shoot some IMP guys inside a pos shield. That was due to lag/bugs, not due to passive targeters as I've yet to ever fit a passive targeter on any of my ships.
Secondly, no you can not under any normal circumstances target and destroy anything that is inside the forcefield of an online and passworded pos.
Thirdly, there is no way to lock anything while you are inside a forcefield. Not when in gang, fleet, corp, alliance or whatever with the owner, somebody that's inside or any iother random combination of states. None of that works. Warping into the tower at zero doesn't let you target anything either.
Fourthly, forcefields don't shrink.
And finally, yes, if your tower was offline for some reason that would explain things. Is it perhaps a possibility that someone else inside your corp offlined the tower and onlined it again later ? Wouldn't know why someone would do that, but it is a possible explanation. Either way, those labs were either bugged, outside the forcefield, or there was no forcefield up.
[center] Old blog |
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Edited by: Rod Blaine on 10/06/2007 16:11:11 I've seldomly seen a single thread with more bull**** being offered as truth in it.
Firstly, there never was a passive targeter exploit. I know, 'cause I was one of the guys supposedly using it to shoot some IMP guys inside a pos shield. That was due to lag/bugs, not due to passive targeters as I've yet to ever fit a passive targeter on any of my ships.
Secondly, no you can not under any normal circumstances target and destroy anything that is inside the forcefield of an online and passworded pos.
Thirdly, there is no way to lock anything while you are inside a forcefield. Not when in gang, fleet, corp, alliance or whatever with the owner, somebody that's inside or any iother random combination of states. None of that works. Warping into the tower at zero doesn't let you target anything either.
Fourthly, forcefields don't shrink.
And finally, yes, if your tower was offline for some reason that would explain things. Is it perhaps a possibility that someone else inside your corp offlined the tower and onlined it again later ? Wouldn't know why someone would do that, but it is a possible explanation. Either way, those labs were either bugged, outside the forcefield, or there was no forcefield up.
The corp consisted of 5 members, all my alts. There is no other RL person in my corp.
Yes I know I am a sad lonely person :P
|
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:32:00 -
[82]
Then I'd guess that this has to do with a bug. either with the pw or the forcefield.
Either way, it probably helps if you ask the gm to check specifically wether the forcefield was up (tower online) and a password set for it at the moment those labs got destroyed.
I'd guess that being specific in what the issue is can only help. If the GM replies that there was no pw, or no fuel, then it's a bug or fault of your own. If he replies that the tower was manually offlined you've got a pc security problem, and if he replies that there was a pw and a forcefield then you've got a mystery :p
[center] Old blog |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:35:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Rod Blaine Then I'd guess that this has to do with a bug. either with the pw or the forcefield.
Either way, it probably helps if you ask the gm to check specifically wether the forcefield was up (tower online) and a password set for it at the moment those labs got destroyed.
I'd guess that being specific in what the issue is can only help. If the GM replies that there was no pw, or no fuel, then it's a bug or fault of your own. If he replies that the tower was manually offlined you've got a pc security problem, and if he replies that there was a pw and a forcefield then you've got a mystery :p
A mystery and a legitimate reimbursement claim. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:37:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Rod Blaine Then I'd guess that this has to do with a bug. either with the pw or the forcefield.
Either way, it probably helps if you ask the gm to check specifically wether the forcefield was up (tower online) and a password set for it at the moment those labs got destroyed.
I'd guess that being specific in what the issue is can only help. If the GM replies that there was no pw, or no fuel, then it's a bug or fault of your own. If he replies that the tower was manually offlined you've got a pc security problem, and if he replies that there was a pw and a forcefield then you've got a mystery :p
A mystery and a legitimate reimbursement claim.
Depends. PC security issue won't be reimbursed probably. Bug/own fault isn't easily determinable, so probably won't either, and we already know how many mystery reimbursements take place.
[center] Old blog |
Fryke
Caldari CRESCENT Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.10 16:45:00 -
[85]
Very interesting topic.
|
The Ender
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 14:15:00 -
[86]
Just an update for you all.
Had no PC Security problems at all. Still got all my isk and stuff :P
However, I still have no reply from a Senior GM. Comparable to my friends petition of a lost ship due to lag, that got resolved in 24 hours by a regular GM, we now have queues in excess of 2 weeks for Senior GMs.
BRING BACK GM ARKANON! :D
2 weeks lost research time :(
|
Sharupak
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 14:31:00 -
[87]
|
w0rmy
M. Corp M. PIRE
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 14:35:00 -
[88]
Originally by: scabbsssjr Heres a quick idea.
When the shield is under attack it shrinks. You lost 1/3 of your shield so some of the stuff near the edge would be open to attack. Since a small pos has a small shield radius it appears as if you had your stuff to close to the edge.
Heres a quick idea
Learn the difference between a Shield and a Forcefield.
Heres a hint, that big round bubble you see, is not a shield.
Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
|
Caia
Gallente The Durandal Organization The Cyrene Initiative
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 14:50:00 -
[89]
Either the OP is leaving out some huge chunk of information, or this seems like an exploit.
1.) Everything was online. 2.) No non-alt corp members to fool with it. 3.) Password was set and reasonably hard to guess. 4.) No known security issues with his computer. 5.) Plenty of fuel.
Definetly sounds like something strange is going on here.
|
Ashraaf
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 15:03:00 -
[90]
I really like to know what happen to this pos :) hope that ender give the info or have an info and /bow to Rod blaine for reading, thinking and answering
|
|
KenDoll
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 15:41:00 -
[91]
after the patch i heard a few people on alliance ventrillo mentioning that there mods were now thrown outside the Pos bubble and that they had mails about them being destroyed literally 2 minutes after the server was accepting connections.
saw a few Pos guns outside bubbles at a friendly Pos which i know were anchored INSIDE before the patch.
|
barvo
7th Space Cavalry Eternal Rapture
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 16:25:00 -
[92]
Edited by: barvo on 20/06/2007 16:24:19
Originally by: KenDoll after the patch i heard a few people on alliance ventrillo mentioning that there mods were now thrown outside the Pos bubble and that they had mails about them being destroyed literally 2 minutes after the server was accepting connections.
saw a few Pos guns outside bubbles at a friendly Pos which i know were anchored INSIDE before the patch.
If I'm not mistaken this is to be expected. I think it's in the patch notes that pos guns are now outside the pos shields, but you can have a player take control of them to make them more effective.
But this is only since Revelations 2, and I believe the OP was well before that.
|
Magunus
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 16:43:00 -
[93]
Originally by: The Ender
Originally by: Macs Nairegin
Originally by: scabbsssjr Heres a quick idea.
When the shield is under attack it shrinks.
Total misunderstanding of POS mechanics ftw
Well me modules were near the edge of the shield but anchored within the defined distances from the control tower. This could be a plausible explanation if this is indeed the case.
However, it would also be another undocumented feature by CCP.
My bet is that they were TOO close to the edge of the forcefield, such that the graphic may have shown that they were inside, or right on the edge, but the server calculated the real distance and figured out that they were 10 meters outside and allowed the lock. ---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Nesa
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 16:49:00 -
[94]
Guns + EW etc are now outside POS's by design. (regardless of where they were anchored) ... Labs, are not. And this thread started well before the patch...
Seems bizzare. The only way I know of is if the shield is actually offline... Which seems to not be the case.. That's alot of shooting at a small POS.. :o Amateurs.
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |