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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:47:00 -
[1]
No, this is not (quite) patch feedback, so I haven't posted it in the patch feedback thread.
The last possible method to do it (if you had multiple negative standings) just vanished in a puff of logic, classed as exploit fix :
"Declining multiple missions in a row will no longer boost your standing with opposed factions".
So, is really a -5.0 standing with all factions that like eachother supposed to be irreversible ?
No "advanced diplomacy" skill, ni "bribing" skill, no nothing to help you get to AT LEAST a -1.99 effective standing so you can TRY to do some low-quality L1 missions ?
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
MehTheTrader
University of Caille
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:53:00 -
[2]
Start a new character
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Namarus
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:54:00 -
[3]
In the old days standings decayed with time, to a base of 0.0. However this was removed because people with +9.9 standings lost a huge amount of standing. This caused an outcry and as a result it was removed.
This has left a lot of players who for example started out in empire space doing missions, then want to move to 0.0 and do missions there. However they cannot because their standings are too low with pirate factions.
Something needs to be done to address this.
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Station Dweller
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Station Dweller on 19/06/2007 19:58:03
nm
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Alora Venoda
Caldari
GalTech
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:59:00 -
[5]
kill their enemies? if i go around killing gallente NPC ships, do i not get increased caldari standing? killing sanshas raises my standing with CONCORD after all... if not, then they really should make it an option.
~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless.
Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application. |
Bob Stuart
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2007.06.19 19:59:00 -
[6]
The patch notes are confusing, but I read this:
 Quote:
Agent Mission Improvements
To encourage group participation for tackling agent missions of any difficulty, gang support for missions will also be added, splitting the bounty for success evenly between participants
Missions now have basic gang support. Choosing the ôMe and my gang have completed the missionö option at the end of a mission will cause LP, ISK and Standing rewards to be split equally between up to five people in a gang.
I think it means you could improve your standings by completing a mission that your gangmates have access to?
I.e. if you cannot access any Navy agents, but a corpmate can, then your corpmate gets a mission, and you form a gang to complete it, then get a standings gain at the end, using the gang completion option? Eventually this allows you to access the agents on your own?
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:01:00 -
[7]
With the new mission system you can gang with someone else, help them with their missions and get some LP for it.
Enough LP will counter your low standings with a particular agent/corporation, giving you access to the storyline missions and raising your factions.....
Slow, but now possible.
<----------->
Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.06.19 20:04:00 -
[8]
The logic is a bit skewed, but then again it's hardly the only skewed logic.
By killing other players, you become an outlaw.
And the only way to repent is by doing NPC-missions/kill NPC:s.
I really hope faction warfare will at least give you the option of a letter of marque, and the opportunity for someone to be legal "in another state".
- Recruitment open again-
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Jacob Castillo
Caldari
Copperhead Inc.
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: MehTheTrader
Start a new character
Sadly, this is not an option. If you want to move stuff around in space you can't enter, yea, make an alt quick and move the things through. But if you ever need to live there, your out of luck. 90% of the people playing would not want to give up a character they've played/trained with for the past few months/years. Myself included.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:14:00 -
[10]
Well, I'm not quite sure the new "gang reward" system in Rev2.0 actually splits standings too (and not just ISK/LP).
I did assume that's the case, but after thinking of the "powerlevelling" opportunities that arise if that's actually done with standings too, I'm not so sure.
But if that's the case, yeah, you COULD cooperate with a different character (be it somebody else or just an alt of yours) to help recover some standings.
__
Still doesn't help with another issue though.
And that is, the fact that killing ships of "faction A" decreases your standing with A, but does not increase it with A's enemies (as you'd normally expect).
Also, faction standings could go up and down derivatively (with a certain cap both high and low), but now it seems they only go down... further and further down.
Looking at the overall picture, you're eventually bound to end up with a LOT of negative standings and only a small handfull of high ones, if even that many.
We really need some means of "controlling" those negative standings that don't require even worse "exploit-like" behaviour.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Rekindle
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Rekindle on 19/06/2007 20:21:54
nm
-------------------------------------------
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:18:00 -
[12]
Well you made your bed now sleep in it.
Your argument would be like George Bush suddenlying applying for a job at Hamas HQ. IF youve done that much work for Empire allainces then youve pretty much massacred thousands of pirate NPC ships and done billions in damage so you think they will allow you to join them for a little bit of isk?
SKUNK
Originally by: Fink Angel
They acted like Mr. Creasote at the all you can eat buffet, and CCP provided the Wafer Theeen Mint.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rekindle
don't gank in low sec / hi sec space ?
my god the flame fests some people start when care bear types bring up something opposite to this.
I'm sorry, I think you got the completely WRONG idea.
You're talking about SECURITY STATUS, we're talking about STANDINGS.
While yeah, sec status is actually standing with concord, that was NOT the point of this thread.
Oh, and you HAVE simple means to recove that, beltratting in 0.0 (which also makes you shedloads of ISK anyway).
I did say simple, not easy.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Tiro Whyte
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:21:00 -
[14]
Rekindle the OP is not talking secuirty status he's taking faction status.
Killing in Low/Hi sec has nothing to do with the OP's Post
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:21:00 -
[15]
There are ways.
A buddy of mine ran so many Minmatar missions that after a while he was very low in his Amarr standings.
So, he ran Caldari missions for a while, which due to the NPC's involved also raised up his standings with the Amarr. IIRC it was all the anti-Gallente missions that did it.
It's all about what you kill.
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Nicho Void
Gallente
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:25:00 -
[16]
Just don't screw up in the first place? 
---------------
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:26:00 -
[17]
You are paying for the consequences of your actions. What's wrong?
==
Above comments are my personal views
Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Lufio II
Amarr
Marangrio Space Services Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:27:00 -
[18]
It is quite hard to get all related factions to a pirate faction to such a low standing that you cannot recover. That would basically mean to be on bad terms with all factions in EVE.
Use the Backstory part of this website to look up the friends of the factions/corps you want to fix your standings with. Fly for them and you will also gain standing with the corps factions you can't fly anymore over time. Gaining Faction standings also gains standings for the friends of that faction.
It's hard and time consuming, but you can fix it, almost always (no case to my knowledge where it really was impossible to do).
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:27:00 -
[19]
hey hey
With the advent of faction warfare you are in your bed and lying in the burdock.
iirc the derived modification standing changes only apply to the max standing cap thats shown in each factions likes/dislikes. Shooting faction navy ships drops it further.
Have you tried working for the other faction allies ?
Working for minmatar only drops my caldari standing to -5 and diplomacy should bring me towards -2 and give me the ability to work for caldari agents. working for those missile spitting scumbags will give me a derived modification change towards the amarrian Slime.
Have you tried working for SOE ?
Im not sure if its possible to get storyline missions towards Sisters of EVE but in the past i have worked for them and got small derived modification gains towards amarr/caldari. it would be worth testing this out on SISI or just doing some low level mission for them and watching the standing transaction list.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:31:00 -
[20]
Stop ganking noobs?
Respect concord law?
Rat more often?
More wardec, less impulse?
More 0.0?
On another note, I have a piwate friend who comes to help me on level 4s just to kill BS sized rats to keep his sec rating on check. I guess with the new level 5s in low sec you can do something similar. Any level 5 mission runner would love to have local piwates as friends. Deals could be made. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
hey hey
With the advent of faction warfare you are in your bed and lying in the burdock.
iirc the derived modification standing changes only apply to the max standing cap thats shown in each factions likes/dislikes. Shooting faction navy ships drops it further.
Have you tried working for the other faction allies ?
Working for minmatar only drops my caldari standing to -5 and diplomacy should bring me towards -2 and give me the ability to work for caldari agents. working for those missile spitting scumbags will give me a derived modification change towards the amarrian Slime.
Have you tried working for SOE ?
Im not sure if its possible to get storyline missions towards Sisters of EVE but in the past i have worked for them and got small derived modification gains towards amarr/caldari. it would be worth testing this out on SISI or just doing some low level mission for them and watching the standing transaction list.
SOE now are int the Gallente/Minmatar camp. Interbus is till friendly with all the empire factions but don't give storylines (confirmed by a GM).
I almost sure that reward splitting will be set so that you will not get faction standing, as CCP want the faction wars to come. But it is only my opinion.
Skunk:
currently most of the people that want to recover from very bad standing are people working for the pirate factions and wanting to get level 5 agents, not empire players wanting to get pirate agents (some empire player want to join the pirate faction for sure, but I dubt it is so huge a number).
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Trind2222
Amarr
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
hey hey
With the advent of faction warfare you are in your bed and lying in the burdock.
iirc the derived modification standing changes only apply to the max standing cap thats shown in each factions likes/dislikes. Shooting faction navy ships drops it further.
Have you tried working for the other faction allies ?
Working for minmatar only drops my caldari standing to -5 and diplomacy should bring me towards -2 and give me the ability to work for caldari agents. working for those missile spitting scumbags will give me a derived modification change towards the amarrian Slime.
Have you tried working for SOE ?
Im not sure if its possible to get storyline missions towards Sisters of EVE but in the past i have worked for them and got small derived modification gains towards amarr/caldari. it would be worth testing this out on SISI or just doing some low level mission for them and watching the standing transaction list.
I worked for soe but unforsnaly not many legal agents only 1
I which there was more agens to soe it hurts to have so few.
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VicturusTeSaluto
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Stop ganking noobs?
Respect concord law?
Rat more often?
More wardec, less impulse?
More 0.0?
On another note, I have a piwate friend who comes to help me on level 4s just to kill BS sized rats to keep his sec rating on check. I guess with the new level 5s in low sec you can do something similar. Any level 5 mission runner would love to have local piwates as friends. Deals could be made.
RTFT
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Muon Ji
Amarr
Quantum Leap
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Stop ganking noobs?
Respect concord law?
Rat more often?
More wardec, less impulse?
More 0.0?
OP is concerning Standings, not Sec Status, as already posted.
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Hari Amun
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:38:00 -
[25]
this is about faction standing right?
what about failing story line missions? last time I looked it increased the
opposite faction standing. |
Fable Hike
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:38:00 -
[26]
Did the crime, now do the time
**************************************
You are going too fast! Wait a minute and try again.
***************************************
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Muon Ji
Amarr
Quantum Leap
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:38:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Muon Ji on 19/06/2007 20:38:08
Originally by: Hari Amun
this is about faction standing right?
what about failing story line missions? last time I looked it increased the
opposite faction standing.
Try reading the OP.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:40:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Akita T on 19/06/2007 20:39:54
Originally by: Lufio II
It is quite hard to get all related factions to a pirate faction to such a low standing that you cannot recover
Not really.
Casually rat a month in each faction's "home areas" and you're probably below -6 with all of them already.
Derived standings increase/decrease tables
Besides, nobody else but some other pirate factions usually like pirate factions (and other pirate factions actually hate them), so recovering was quite hard, but now impossible.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Stop ganking noobs?
Respect concord law?
Rat more often?
More wardec, less impulse?
More 0.0?
Mong 
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Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:45:00 -
[30]
so basically, what the OP is asking is this:
i'm the eve equivalent of hannibal lecter, ******, mussolini and pinochet rolled all into one.
But NOW, I wanna be a good guy!
huh? no one likes me? me no get dat!
I mean seriously -> low security standing is there for a reason. if you pod for life and slay millions, you don't deserve a spot in safe space. you are an outlaw.
nobody would have given any of the above people I named a second chance. you don't deserve one either.
stop moaning and live with your actions.
-----------------------------------------------
"LowSec Pirates are like the seagulls in Finding Nemo: instead if "mine! mine!" all they do is yell "gank! gank!" in local."
In short: brainless |
Trind2222
Amarr
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:47:00 -
[31]
Galente realy hates me -3.11
Minmatar -1.22
Sansha -3.4
Blood raiders -3.30
Some thing like that if i rember it right
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Muon Ji
Amarr
Quantum Leap
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Cornucopian
I mean seriously -> low security standing is there for a reason. if you pod for life and slay millions, you don't deserve a spot in safe space. you are an outlaw.
nobody would have given any of the above people I named a second chance. you don't deserve one either.
stop moaning and live with your actions.
/me bangs head on table again and again.
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Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cornucopian
I mean seriously -> low security standing is there for a reason. if you pod for life and slay millions, you don't deserve a spot in safe space. you are an outlaw.
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Hari Amun
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:53:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Muon Ji
Edited by: Muon Ji on 19/06/2007 20:38:08
Originally by: Hari Amun
what about failing story line missions? last time I looked it increased the
opposite faction standing.
Try reading the OP.
I did. Are you referring to "Declining multiple missions in a row will no longer boost your standing with opposed factions"?
She means normal missions, not storyline (important) missions. If this "fix" covers storyline missions also, I don't know. Do You?
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Logical Logtistics
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:55:00 -
[35]
turn in tags to the revelant parties , if low with the pirates shoot concord drones in syndicate space
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:56:00 -
[36]
Edited OP and thread title for better clarity.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 20:59:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hari Amun
Originally by: Muon Ji
Edited by: Muon Ji on 19/06/2007 20:38:08
Originally by: Hari Amun
what about failing story line missions? last time I looked it increased the
opposite faction standing.
Try reading the OP.
I did. Are you referring to "Declining multiple missions in a row will no longer boost your standing with opposed factions"?
She means normal missions, not storyline (important) missions. If this "fix" covers storyline missions also, I don't know. Do You?
It covers FAILING missions, regardless of mission type.
Originally by: Callthetruth
turn in tags to the revelant parties , if low with the pirates shoot concord drones in syndicate space
Explain to me how exactly can that help you out of a -6.0 standing.
Also, since when did shooting ships increase ANY standings ?
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:02:00 -
[38]
security or standing, difference is the same:
you kill a million anti gallente pirates -> they wont like you. even if you go to the pirates and say please. duh.
live with it.
-----------------------------------------------
"LowSec Pirates are like the seagulls in Finding Nemo: instead if "mine! mine!" all they do is yell "gank! gank!" in local."
In short: brainless |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Cornucopian
security or standing, difference is the same:
you kill a million anti gallente pirates -> they wont like you. even if you go to the pirates and say please. duh.
live with it.
I am tempted to use som harsh words here, but meh.
First off, if for some reason you HAVE NOT wrecked your Guristas standing (by sistematically refusing to kill Guristas even if the vast majority of missions are against them), you CAN recover even a -10.0 standing with both Blood Raiders and Sansha's nation by moving over to the Guristas and grinding THEIR missions.
How's that for a direct contradiction to your attempted insult ?
Or, how about if you REFUSE to do ANY "kill Gallente" missions for the Caldari soon after you hit -4.99 base Gallente standings, and then move over to the Gallente and gring missions for THEIR lowest agents ?
Or even funnier, you COULD already have the prerequisite standings to do BOTH L4 missions for Gallente AND the Caldari at the same time (by having worked with the proper agent/corps, and just barely enough faction standing).
Your logic is almost inexistant in face of this game's realities.
It is possible to do what you claim is impossible, it's just that much more annoying to pull off.
And you would have needed to know in advance.
Starting a new char, he can manage to do that all just fine. On the other hand, you now CAN'T anymore.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cornucopian
security or standing, difference is the same:
you kill a million anti gallente pirates -> they wont like you. even if you go to the pirates and say please. duh.
live with it.
Yes, but with security status there is a way to redeem it - with standings there is not...
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:20:00 -
[41]
yeah sell tags to the blood raiders
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:26:00 -
[42]
Originally by: MotherMoon
yeah sell tags to the blood raiders
Have you actually, personally done that, and can confirm it will increase blood raider standings ?
Because quite frankly I am almost completely sure you heard it from somebody else who just made it up.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:37:00 -
[43]
It seems to me that you could create an alt, have them get the mission, gang with them and run it yourself, then have the alt turn in the mission with the gang option. You would get half the standings increase.
You'd need a separate account, burn through some trial accounts for about a month or get a friend with enough standings to help you out.
--
SAVE EANM FROM THE NERFBAT! |
daemorhedron
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Posted - 2007.06.19 21:47:00 -
[44]
Well stated in the OP, now revised for even further clarity. I have no problem living with a low standing while I am 'opposed' to them and doing their enemies bidding, but there needs to be a way to ultimately reverse that position for numerous legitimate reasons. Maybe your alliance starts a campaign in a new area of space and you need the standings to even get there. Maybe you switch corps/alliances and moving into the new space won't work for you due to your standings.
Another point worth mentioning is the inherited standings you get when you do join a corp/alliance.
Again we're talking about STANDINGS, not SEC RATING.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.19 22:22:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Akita T on 19/06/2007 22:21:48
I can see at least three (maybe four) completely separate ways this could have been done.
And this is just scratching the surface.
1. The change ("exploit fix") could merely apply if the "target of positive derivative standings for mission failure" faction would be at a base positive (as opposed to also negative) standing.
You fix the exploit part (where you could have a newbie char racking up positive standings like mad), yet you maintain the "standings management" part.
2. You can make it so that ship kills give a derived standing too, not just standing decreases towards ship's faction.
Translation, go rat into Angel territory, gain standings with Gallente, Minmatar, Sansha, Guristas, Blood Raiders and several others, but lose standings with Angels, Serpentis, Intaki Syndicate and the Thukker Tribe.
3a. Drop the "-2.00 or above" requirement on each faction/corp/agent standing (or just drop the faction requirement, keep the corp/agent), and just require the usual "one of three standings at proper level" for agents.
alternatively
3b. Introduce an "advanced diplomacy" skill, that when brought up to the maximum, and in combination with L5 Diplomacy will increase a -10.0 standing to a -2.00 standing, thus enabling you access to the lowest possible agents anywhere regardless of base standings.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 03:20:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Rooker
It seems to me that you could create an alt, have them get the mission, gang with them and run it yourself, then have the alt turn in the mission with the gang option.
You would get half the standings increase.
You'd need a separate account, burn through some trial accounts for about a month or get a friend with enough standings to help you out.
It's just as I feared it would be (and already mentioned it might be the case), because of the "exploit powerlevelling potential" for standings.
Corp members just tested the new "split rewards" option on TQ.
You get an equal share of LP and ISK... but you do not get any standings increases.
There goes any hope to do it within existing game mechanics.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Rangkai
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Posted - 2007.06.20 03:32:00 -
[47]
I think that they are really just trying to set us all up for factional warfare.
I think they want people to start picking one faction and sticking with it instead of trying to balance good standings with everyone.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 03:39:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/06/2007 03:42:37
You should never be driven in a point-of-no-return situation in EVE, no matter what the situation is.
How evil would it be to suddendly decide you can only run Caldari missions in Caldari ships, and you have to BE a Caldari pilot to work for a Caldari corp ?
Or how about only Caldari pilots being able to train Caldari ship skills ?
The whole basic idea of EVE is that you CAN do anything you want to, if you just put enough effort into it.
You can get out of just about anything somehow. No, I'm not talking about a gatecamp.
At a cost, either in time or ISK, but you nevertheless can.
The option is there, no matter how hard to get.
Standings are the ONLY exception to that rule.
They CAN'T be fixed, no matter how hard you try, once you go beyond a certain point.
That needs fixing.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Stephar
The High Priest
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Posted - 2007.06.20 03:54:00 -
[49]
I was afraid that CCP would do something like this. Making it so it is impossible to raise your standings after a certain point is extremely short-sighted. If John runs missions for the Caldari Navy, gets bored after a few months, and decides he wants to move to 0.0 to run missions for Sansha... "Sorry John, that part of the game is now closed to you. But since you are bored, have you considered trying out another MMORPG?"
Hopefully CCP will put in something to make this situation reversible.
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Soto ShinDo
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.20 04:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Stephar
I was afraid that CCP would do something like this. Making it so it is impossible to raise your standings after a certain point is extremely short-sighted. If John runs missions for the Caldari Navy, gets bored after a few months, and decides he wants to move to 0.0 to run missions for Sansha... "Sorry John, that part of the game is now closed to you. But since you are bored, have you considered trying out another MMORPG?"
Hopefully CCP will put in something to make this situation reversible.
/signed
And besides, I'm still lying on the floor laughing. Never seen so many dumb replies in one post. It's really interesting how many people trained 'Advanced write before thinking' to LV 5 
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Ki Tarra
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Posted - 2007.06.20 04:15:00 -
[51]
Okay, I am missing something here. Maybe someone who knows more about this former exploit can explain.
1) Prior to this patch did you get a faction boost to opposing faction for declining regular missions? If yes, than I don't see a problem with stopping that, faction boosts should come from storyline missions. Otherwise you can power level your faction standings.
2) If you are turning down storyline missions to get faction boost to opposing factions then you will NOT be "Declining multiple missions in a row will" as you must complete 16 regular missions to get a storeline mission.
3) With pirate factions you have a standings boost from both Deplomacy and Criminal Connections. I am not entirely clear how these two skills stack together but as best as I can figure that means that with a -10 faction standing, having both of those to skills trained to level 5 (if 20% + 20% = 40%) would still give you an effective standing of -2 thus allowing you to run missions.
Can someone please clarify which of these I am mistaken on?
Originally by: Jeffrey R. Holland
No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
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Ki Tarra
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 04:21:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Patch Notes
Missions now have basic gang support. Choosing the ôMe and my gang have completed the missionö option at the end of a mission will cause LP, ISK and Standing rewards to be split equally between up to five people in a gang.
Originally by: Akita T
Corp members just tested the new "split rewards" option on TQ.
You get an equal share of LP and ISK... but you do not get any standings increases.
Have you filed a bug report/petition on this? It would not be the first time a new feature didn't work right the day after it was introduced.
Originally by: Jeffrey R. Holland
No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 04:28:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ki Tarra
2) If you are turning down storyline missions to get faction boost to opposing factions then you will NOT be "Declining multiple missions in a row will" as you must complete 16 regular missions to get a storeline mission.
That's how I read the patch notes as well. The wording is quite specific.
By extension that would be saying that previously "Declining" multiple missions within the 4 hours window was giving positive opposing faction gains when it should not have been. That seems to line up with some advice I've seen given on raising very low standings. And it makes sense that this would be removed.
Failing Storylines however, takes a great deal more investment, and (I believe) the drawbacks are more severe.
Clarification by CCP would still be nice.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 04:32:00 -
[54]
As a sidenote, and apart from the mechanics question, I find it funny that so many people in this thread believe that killing NPCs should have more permanent consequences than killing players.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 04:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ki Tarra
1) Prior to this patch did you get a faction boost to opposing faction for declining regular missions? If yes, than I don't see a problem with stopping that, faction boosts should come from storyline missions. Otherwise you can power level your faction standings.
Here's the story...
People were abusing the system, picking only L3/L4 missions they wanted out of all available ones by refusing the rest, and being able to still work for a certain agent/corp due to FACTION standings.
Due to how standings increases/decreases work (fails at low standings mean little, at high standings it's a disaster, increases at low standings mean a lot, increases at high standings are negligible), they were able to still keep "just high enough" corp/agent standings (above -5.0 base) to keep doing it indefinitely.
The "fix" was to also punish FACTION standings, so that if they kept doing it, they would no longer be able to access L3/L4 agents, so that this "mission selection" exploit would not work anymore.
This change brought with it the problem that you COULD fail massively (on purpose) missions for "enemy" factions of your target faction, and with a high enough diplomacy skill, even a very low SP character could get quite high faction standings.
It was especially effective to get pirate standings up, due to the "multipliers" and "caps" involved... a +6 standing could take a couple of days to acheive (and would be easily noticeable due to the myriad agents and corps with very bad standings, and no corps with positive ones, yet high faction standings).
I am quite sure nobody actually used that exploit and got away unpunished, it's not something you can easily hide (or at all, actually).
Now, the "further fix" was to delete/ignore the positive derived modifications in case of a DECREASE in faction standings (as opposed to an increase).
Originally by: Ki Tarra
2) If you are turning down storyline missions to get faction boost to opposing factions then you will NOT be "Declining multiple missions in a row will" as you must complete 16 regular missions to get a storeline mission.
I can't be sure about that, but I am 99% certain that option is gone too.
As said, it looks like the condition they put in was to NOT give any derived modifications in case of a faction standing decrease.
So that would mean failing storylines won't work either.
Originally by: Ki Tarra
3) With pirate factions you have a standings boost from both Deplomacy and Criminal Connections. I am not entirely clear how these two skills stack together but as best as I can figure that means that with a -10 faction standing, having both of those to skills trained to level 5 (if 20% + 20% = 40%) would still give you an effective standing of -2 thus allowing you to run missions.
Wrong.
None of the Criminal Connections, Connections and Diplomacy skills "stack".
Only one of the three is ever used, depending on faction standings.
For corps/agents in a faction you have NEGATIVE standings with, Diplomacy is used.
For factions that have a positive standing with CONCORD and with you, Connections is used.
For factions that have a negative standing with CONCORD and with you, Criminal Connections is used.
You can have for instance a Minmatar corp/agent with high standings, but it would get modified by Diplomacy (not Connections) in case you have a negative Minmatar faction standing.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 04:38:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/06/2007 04:41:34
Originally by: Ki Tarra
Originally by: Patch Notes
Missions now have basic gang support. Choosing the “Me and my gang have completed the mission” option at the end of a mission will cause LP, ISK and Standing rewards to be split equally between up to five people in a gang.
Originally by: Akita T
Corp members just tested the new "split rewards" option on TQ.
You get an equal share of LP and ISK... but you do not get any standings increases.
Have you filed a bug report/petition on this? It would not be the first time a new feature didn't work right the day after it was introduced.
Yes, I did bugreport it a while ago already.
Still, I'm afraid it's actually INTENTIONAL, and not a bug.
While we're on the subject, I also bugreported and petitioned the ORIGINAL "FIX" (the one with faction standing decrease on mission failure) when it was introduced a long time ago, warning that it COULD be used to boost faction standings due to the way new character creation (Diplomacy L5 from the start FTW) worked.
It only took them half a year to "fix" it.
__
The patch notes say "gang support for missions will also be added, splitting the bounty for success evenly between participants".
Note it saying BOUNTY, not rewards.
As mentioned, the ability to share standings would just promote powerlevelling standings, and I can see why CCP would want to avoid that.
It would have been very useful though for missionrunner player corps, but oh well, pre-nerf to avoid abuse FTW.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.20 05:15:00 -
[57]
I agree, they should allow some way to recover from -5.0 or worse faction standing.
BUYING ZAINOU 'DEADEYE' ZGL1000 IMPLANTS, PAYING TOP DOLLAR, CONVO/MAIL IN-GAME |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 05:22:00 -
[58]
Apparently, you DO get a standing increase for "splitting rewards".
However, it is much smaller as the usual standing increase, so small that my corp members haven't even noticed it at first.
I'll get back to you when I get more info myself.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Ki Tarra
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 05:24:00 -
[59]
What I was not aware of was that declining a regular mission gave any sort of change to faction standings. I just tested this on an alt, you do get a decrease in all three, agent, corp and faction standing. In any case, I would not think that this would be such a huge problem. Now you are required to wait the 4 hours if you want to be picky about what missions you select, and that sounds fair to me.
Now can anyone confirm that failing a storeline mission will not increase opposing faction standings, or do I need to run 16 missions on an alt to verify this? To assume that standings modifiers are the same for regular and storeline missions when failed does not seem justified to me given that they are different when completed successfully. I do not see why they would not patch it so that failing a regular mission has no derived standings changes at all, while leaving both the positive and negitive derived standings changes as is for both failing and completing storyline missions.
As for the Criminal connections skill, I just finished training it up. You are right that they do not stack. Could you clearify for me when it does apply. Your previous post stated "For factions that have a negative standing with CONCORD and with you, Criminal Connections is used." Is it used for pirate faction that you have positive standings for in place of Connections? It would seem silly for it to apply to to pirate faction that you have a negitive standing for, when Deplomacy has that effect and is Rank 1 instead of Rank 3.
As for, crippling your access to agents, the new gang standing increases should help fix that once they get it working properly.
Originally by: Jeffrey R. Holland
No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 05:31:00 -
[60]
Corrected typo in post above.
It should have said "For factions that have a negative standing with CONCORD and positive with you, Criminal Connections is used."
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Aleniat
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Posted - 2007.06.20 06:02:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Ki Tarra
Now can anyone confirm that failing a storeline mission will not increase opposing faction standings, or do I need to run 16 missions on an alt to verify this?
I tried this on SISI a few days ago - there was no increase in the standings for opposing factions, only a loss of standing to all the allied factions
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Valan
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:06:00 -
[62]
You can reduce the affects of working for a faction.
You can also address the situation if you use your head.
The mechanism is there but you have to figure it out.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
band0fdevs
Gallente
Band of Dev's
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:09:00 -
[63]
derived storyline gains
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:15:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/06/2007 07:14:05
Yeah... you can REFUSE to work against some types of enemies, you can elect to don't do storylines, you can do a lot of downright stupid stuff. Or you can keep alternating between enemy factions, zipping across the universe, doing a mission here a mission there, a mission a day everywhere.
But once you ARE at "minus five point something" with all "factions that only like eachother" already, there was apparently no way in hell you could (all alone) recover from that.
Thankfully, the "gang mission sharing" seems to work now, albeit a bit buggy and with a lame standing increase... hopefully that will change to split the ACTUAL standing evenly, not a heavily nerfed value.
Sure, it's impossible ALONE, but with friends and/or alt account(s), slowly, dangerously even in some cases, it became possible.
It's good enough. I guess.
Originally by: band0fdevs
derived storyline gains
Have you even BOTHERED to read the OP ?
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.20 07:19:00 -
[65]
Originally by: band0fdevs
derived storyline gains
No, obviously didn't read the op. But look at the char name/corp and it's obviously some tinfoil hat loving troll alt.
Anyway, Unless I'm mistaken, once you hit just -2.0 faction standing you can't work for any of the agents in a corp.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Valan
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 07:24:00 -
[66]
If you're dumb enough to keep grinding missions for the same agent without watching the negative standings then you deserve all you get.
I did fall foul of the Intaki but guess what I didn't do any missions for any Gallente factions to put it right, or use the diplomacy skill.
/start sig
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
/end sig |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 07:26:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/06/2007 07:29:07
Originally by: Frug
Anyway, Unless I'm mistaken, once you hit just -2.0 faction standing you can't work for any of the agents in a corp.
Yes, that is correct, once you get ever so slightly below -2.00 effective standing with a faction you lose acces to that factions' agents. Same for a corp (lose access to all agents of that corp) or for an agent (can't work with him even if you have the needed corp/faction standings).
But a -2.00 effective standing can still be acheived with a -5.00 standing and L5 Diplomacy skill.
Go below -5.00, and not even Diplomacy L5 can help you.
Originally by: Valan
If you're dumb enough to keep grinding missions for the same agent without watching the negative standings then you deserve all you get.
I did fall foul of the Intaki but guess what I didn't do any missions for any Gallente factions to put it right, or use the diplomacy skill.
As just mentioned, Diplomacy won't help you after a point.
And how do you plan to CORRECT a Guristas/Sansha/Bloodraider standing problem SOLO after working even a litle bit more than just casually for the Caldari ?
Well, at least we do have this "gang" option now.
Troublesome, but it's apparently working.
Not quite right yet, but working.
I have deleted the rest of my reply to this because it's simply not worth the aggravation.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Aleniat
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 09:24:00 -
[68]
Advanced Diplomacy skill ftw.
I'm trying to find a way to get pirate faction standings high enough to make agents available, and I've come to the conclusion that it is not possible.
Previously I have taken a faction standing of -4.0 and made it positive: I know how to do it. But there is a point of no return.
LVL5 gangs will help if you have access to lvl5 agents and gang mates willing to fly. But I'm led to believe there are no lvl5 pirate agents, so it isn't an option....lol, even if they were available, I know no-one with 8.6 standing towards a pirate faction.
As the OP said, this part of the game is closed off to me.
I'm not a 23/7 mission runner - I can't even do lvl4 solo.
I just had an idea that it would be a change to run pirate missions, maybe see what the agent offers were like, spice life up a little. Do something a bit different. Head for 0.0 for a while.
I know miners who up sticks and become PVP players; combat chars can become traders - EvE is about being able to change the way you play if you feel the need. If you get bored with one aspect of the game, you can change and do something else - that's part of the marketing.
If the idea of running pirate missions had struck me one month ago, I would have been able to manage the standings and make it possible. It would have taken a lot of time and effort, but it would have been doable. Today, I don't have the option.
I agree with the OP, there should be a way to enable -1.99 effective standing with a faction, no matter what your current level is. Advanced Diplomacy skill is a good way forward.
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cal nereus
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.06.20 09:53:00 -
[69]
Edited by: cal nereus on 20/06/2007 09:52:27
I always thought that with each faction having so many friendly factions (and enemy factions) that you could have the option of working for a variety of factions to improve standings with their allies (or at the very least kill their enemies). I'm pretty sure there exists, for example, a faction that is friendly to both Gallente and Caldari, as strange as that may seem. A small faction it is, and I forget what it is called. Anyways, I think it is possible to bounce back up, but it would simply be very difficult. :-)
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Raem Civrie
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.20 10:20:00 -
[70]
Agreed. This is ridiculous. Alot of people have been rat hunting in 0.0 without realizing how viable the pirate agents are. Many are, effectively, locked out from these agents. I mean, that's it. No recourse for them.
It's especially bad when the decision wasn't conscious.
----
Fact #443: Everyone in EVE is someone's alt |
Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 10:50:00 -
[71]
hmmmzzz
After thouroughly re-reading ALL posts (yes I am at lvl5 noob forum replying right now :-)) I would say that the way should be long, hard, and cost a lot. but I do agree.
I will now retract most of my flaming posts from earlier. retracted. I am a confirmed idiot.
I've seen a post stating that standing sharing is 1/7th of normal standing increase, which is strangely low, since patch notes state that sharing works for up to 5 people, so the shared standing increase should be 1/5th, not 1/7th, at MAX. The concept is still somewhat strange if you look at it from an RP point of view:
some faction hero (high standing) collabbing with the most infamous slaughterer (low standing) on a mission, after which people should suddenly forget all the wrongdoings of the low standing guy. it's slightly weird. I would say up the standings sharing to 1/5th, and not higher.
I agree that everything should be possible, but something of this magnitude should never be easy. The same rule of thumb applies to flying specific ships, using guns, piloting races. If you fly in amarr titan and then wanna fly an gallante battleship, it's gonna take time, money, and effort.
Also there is a certain point in the tutorial where you get the option to go faction or pirate. Maybe some notice that this will be unrecovable if the standing drops too low could work as well.
While I would say it should be possible, by sweat and tears, I simply prefer the the fact that EVEs backstory uses (fairly) defined factions. You join one, and you, as a pilot choose to live for that faction. this is inline with the coming of factional warfare. and you can bet I'll be on the gallentean side, not switching every three months just because I can.
Thus I'm wondering about the reasons behind changing factions as a charachter -> just so you can get access to the phat loot in the Guristas Lp store? the factional battleship? there are contracts for just about everything you can imagine, all it takes is ISK, which you can still make with standings -5 to everything.
perhaps a reply from the OP why you want to change in the first place? I'm just fairly sceptical about the reasoning. I've played many an online game and there is always a reason why switching factions at a whim is discouraged, and it mostly has to with metagaming.
-----------------------------------------------
"LowSec Pirates are like the seagulls in Finding Nemo: instead if "mine! mine!" all they do is yell "gank! gank!" in local."
In short: brainless |
Dahin
Maza Nostra
oooh Shiny
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 10:55:00 -
[72]
it's quite easy to up standings with factions.
The lower they are, the faster they increase.
Find an accessible corp with good standings with the faction you're after (sisters of eve?) and do missions for em for a day or so.
That's how I got my pirate standings from -4 to -1
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 10:55:00 -
[73]
Originally by: cal nereus
I always thought that with each faction having so many friendly factions (and enemy factions) that you could have the option of working for a variety of factions to improve standings with their allies (or at the very least kill their enemies).
I'm pretty sure there exists, for example, a faction that is friendly to both Gallente and Caldari, as strange as that may seem.
A small faction it is, and I forget what it is called.
Anyways, I think it is possible to bounce back up, but it would simply be very difficult. :-)
The only three factions that are friendly to BOTH Gallente and Caldari are CONCORD, Interbus and The Society.
CONCORD has no agents at all (no active ones, not anymore).
The Society is a Jovian ofshoot, which, surprise, has absolutely no agents either.
Interbus only has normal agents, but no stations (no LP shop, not yet anyway) and no storyline agents (so you can't get a derived faction modification from there).
You COULD try to run a combo of Ammatar Mandate and Servant Sisters of Eve, overall you should be getting positive standings with all four major empires... that is, assuming you can access at least one of each of their agents in the first place.
However, for pirate factions, the outlook is much, much worse.
As mentioned already several times over, you have the Guristas-Sansha-Blood trio which have absolutely NO OTHER means to get positive derived standings except amongst themselves... and then there's the Angels-Serpentis-Syndicate-Thukker quadrilater, which is again a closed circuit.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Malcanis
High4Life
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 11:04:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Aleniat
Advanced Diplomacy skill ftw.
I'm trying to find a way to get pirate faction standings high enough to make agents available, and I've come to the conclusion that it is not possible.
Previously I have taken a faction standing of -4.0 and made it positive: I know how to do it. But there is a point of no return.
LVL5 gangs will help if you have access to lvl5 agents and gang mates willing to fly. But I'm led to believe there are no lvl5 pirate agents, so it isn't an option....lol, even if they were available, I know no-one with 8.6 standing towards a pirate faction.
As the OP said, this part of the game is closed off to me.
I'm not a 23/7 mission runner - I can't even do lvl4 solo.
I just had an idea that it would be a change to run pirate missions, maybe see what the agent offers were like, spice life up a little. Do something a bit different. Head for 0.0 for a while.
I know miners who up sticks and become PVP players; combat chars can become traders - EvE is about being able to change the way you play if you feel the need. If you get bored with one aspect of the game, you can change and do something else - that's part of the marketing.
If the idea of running pirate missions had struck me one month ago, I would have been able to manage the standings and make it possible. It would have taken a lot of time and effort, but it would have been doable. Today, I don't have the option.
I agree with the OP, there should be a way to enable -1.99 effective standing with a faction, no matter what your current level is. Advanced Diplomacy skill is a good way forward.
Hi there, you just met one! Well OK, not quite 8.6 yet, but I will be in a few days. Angels love me so much, and the Serpentis are pretty fond of me too.
But I'm not in the Minmatari good books, and I'd best stay the heck out of Gallante space. You know; choices vs consequences, risk vs rewards...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 11:16:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Cornucopian
perhaps a reply from the OP why you want to change in the first place?
I'm just fairly sceptical about the reasoning.
I've played many an online game and there is always a reason why switching factions at a whim is discouraged, and it mostly has to with metagaming.
I'll just give you a concrete example.
One of my corpmates is an almost 2-year-old character, hasn't been running missions much in his early character life, just casually (alongside a bit of mining, a bit of... well, a bit of everything).
He has been living first in Serpentis, then Angels space for quite a while almost one year ago.
By beltratting there, he quite effectivelly borked his faction standings with both, back when he didn't even give a serious thought to missionrunning.
At some point (about the time when I started playing), after talking to me about missionrunning, he noticed his Serpentis standing is below -5 already, and he barely had access to some lowlevel Angel agents.
I don't have to explain to you how hard/tiresome/dangerous it is to run missions in 0.0, but well, he at least tried... that is, until the corp he was in pulled out of Angel space, and he had to move along too, before he got a chance to get above -5.00 with Serpentis.
He eventually joined my corp soon after I created it (about 8 months ago), and we've been all running Caldari missions together ever since.
Needless to say, his Guristas, Sansha, Bloodraiders and also Angels standings have all taken a big plunge.
So now, we WERE thinking about running a few pirate faction missions ourselves, but just like him, most of our members ALSO have pathetically low pirate faction standings.
So, not only would we have a hard time running the missions in the first place, we even have trouble ACCESSING any of them in the first place, let alone talk about the grind required to get them up at all if we find a way to access them at all.
It's more or less all about options.
You get bored doing the same thing over and over again for a long time... like, run Caldari missions.
The fun part though is that we ALL could STILL manage to bring our standings up to work for ANY empire faction if we wanted to, due in no little part to the Ammatar/Sisters combo.
Speaking of bordom, you end up craving a bit of diversity, and a bit of 0.0 mission running would sure hit the spot, the pirate faction rewards being an enticing extra bonus.
But even if we could all end up working for Gallente (our "official arch nemesis"), it's much harder (actually, practically impossible) to get to work for pirate factions.
Any of them.
Doesn't that strike you as, well, at least a bit ODD ?
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Malcanis
High4Life
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 11:18:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Raem Civrie
Agreed. This is ridiculous. Alot of people have been rat hunting in 0.0 without realizing how viable the pirate agents are. Many are, effectively, locked out from these agents. I mean, that's it. No recourse for them.
It's especially bad when the decision wasn't conscious.
*shrug*
They see the agents every time they dock in a station. The way they are arranged, it's a PITA to get standings up to the L3/L4 agents. But effort and initiatve pays off, as is usual in this game...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 11:20:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Malcanis
Angels love me so much, and the Serpentis are pretty fond of me too.
But I'm not in the Minmatari good books, and I'd best stay the heck out of Gallante space.
You know; choices vs consequences, risk vs rewards...
And you MUST have a standing high enough with "Sisters of EVE" that you COULD run missions for them, thus eventually increasing your Gallente standings back to manageable levels.
Then go on the Sisters/Ammatar combo and get all your empire faction standings back up.
But work for the empires, and the pirates will end up eventually hating you forever and ever.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Malcanis
High4Life
Curse Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 11:33:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Malcanis
Angels love me so much, and the Serpentis are pretty fond of me too.
But I'm not in the Minmatari good books, and I'd best stay the heck out of Gallante space.
You know; choices vs consequences, risk vs rewards...
And you MUST have a standing high enough with "Sisters of EVE" that you COULD run missions for them, thus eventually increasing your Gallente standings back to manageable levels.
Then go on the Sisters/Ammatar combo and get all your empire faction standings back up.
But work for the empires, and the pirates will end up eventually hating you forever and ever.
Fine. I hate being in Empire. If I have to grind for ISK, whether ratting or missions, then I'd far prefer to do it in 0.0 where the rewards are higher and risk hardly higher. If I'm forced into Empire, then I have standings with a couple of hi-sec NPC corps.
Whenever possible, I decline faction missions, but you get a lot of those with pirate agents, reasonably enough, so there's an inevitable penalty to running a lot of missions for them.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 11:42:00 -
[79]
I'll agree that it's quite annoying to say the least. All my pirate faction standings are completely shot to pieces, and there's no chance whatsoever to repair that. So no pirate missions for me... ever!
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Plan Neun
Caldari
Ganja Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:43:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Plan Neun on 20/06/2007 11:43:01
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 20/06/2007 03:42:37
You should never be driven in a point-of-no-return situation in EVE, no matter what the situation is.
How evil would it be to suddendly decide you can only run Caldari missions in Caldari ships, and you have to BE a Caldari pilot to work for a Caldari corp ?
Or how about only Caldari pilots being able to train Caldari ship skills ?
The whole basic idea of EVE is that you CAN do anything you want to, if you just put enough effort into it.
You can get out of just about anything somehow. No, I'm not talking about a gatecamp.
At a cost, either in time or ISK, but you nevertheless can.
The option is there, no matter how hard to get.
Standings are the ONLY exception to that rule.
They CAN'T be fixed, no matter how hard you try, once you go beyond a certain point.
That needs fixing.
Totaly agree, with this anti-policy towards free will and change is totaly out there.
This reminds me of the stupid idea that only Amarrians will get bonuses in Amarr ships ( thank gawd that thought was stopped).
It's like a norwegian never can be world champion in a Japan produced racecar.
It got the same insanity level.
Let the Eve-universe reflect the gamers choice dynamicly, inreversibilty is a lie it is a huge step backward on CCP's part.
Give us what you promised no backing out now.
Or ill bite a jovian ass one day!
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.20 11:57:00 -
[81]
its really quiet simple:
if you want to work for a faction then dont shoot them and dont work for their enemies.
if you've been doing countless missions for a faction you have pretty much declared yourself to be an allied with them. maybe read a few of those mission descriptions and be less suprised when your enemies dont like you after some time of killing them. the consequences you have to face are just a few and not really that harsh. deal with them.
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Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2007.06.20 12:33:00 -
[82]
Frankly the answer to this problem is not to let it happen in the first place - I doubt I will ever want to run pirate missions, but just in case I do I have made a point of keeping at least one or two of my standings with pirates at a reasonable level. Given the sheer numbers of sanshas/bloods I have killed over the last year I don't have a problem with never being able to work for them. In all honesty it would be slightly ridiculous if I ever could. My angel/serpentis standings however could be a lot worse and I intend to make sure they stay that way just in case.
By the looks of things it is just about possible to remedy the problem with group missions. It will be a major PITA but thats your own fault for letting the situation develop. (By the way there is a thread suggesting standing gains are broken at the minute so the minute gains from group missions could be a temporary glitch, meaning you have a slightly easier way out).
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DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2007.06.20 13:06:00 -
[83]
there are ways to get back to the agents, but they might take a LOT of grinding and a LOT of work for it to happen..
Dont forget that ANY agent you have ever worked for (who gave you even .01 standing) should be avail to you..
You should really keep in mind that the empire factions pass standing gains around in odd ways and you do "likely" have a path to get back in with.. even if it means running l1 agents just to get a odd storyline..
Part of this has to just be accepted I think.. If you go and beat the s*** out of someone today and then in 10 years time you go to apply for the dream job and they are the boss.. well... Tough!
If you were able to grind a npc to -9 then you can spend the time to grind the factions + corps that they slightly like until your able to get ur foot in the door....
My advice is to go and do some missions for each empire race from time to time to help keep your standings alive with at least one corp :)...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 13:14:00 -
[84]
Originally by: DeODokktor
Dont forget that ANY agent you have ever worked for (who gave you even .01 standing) should be avail to you..
WRONG. If any of the faction/corp standing towards an agent you have a personal +9.99 standings with is below -2.00 effective, that agent will not talk to you.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.20 13:27:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
its really quiet simple:
if you want to work for a faction then dont shoot them and dont work for their enemies.
if you've been doing countless missions for a faction you have pretty much declared yourself to be an allied with them. maybe read a few of those mission descriptions and be less suprised when your enemies dont like you after some time of killing them. the consequences you have to face are just a few and not really that harsh. deal with them.
Ehm... it's not really that simple... the problem is that after running empire missions for a while it becomes quite literally impossible to ever run missions for a pirate faction, and picking which pirate faction you wanna work for isn't so easy as picking up your stuff and moving.
And I'm not suprised I'm disliked by certain factions, I've killed more then enough of their NPC's to be disliked. But the fact that there is no way to repair that, while realistic, is a bit too much for a game IMHO.
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hilaw
|
Posted - 2007.06.20 13:41:00 -
[86]
Try playing the game for a few years, moving around 0.0 and then doing a pirate mission 
A way of fixing these would be nice, even if it was a number of agents labeled underhand thief scattered around 0.0 that gave you missions that lowered your security status, and gave a small boost to each pirate faction, with no requisites to talk to said thief.
Was 1 Pixel to big and you had to nerf it, well fixed now |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.06.20 13:48:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Akita T
(Original post)
/signed
(and I usually never agree with her)
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Shidhe
Minmatar
The Babylon5 Consortuim
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.20 16:51:00 -
[88]
I dont like the idea of advanced diplomacy - too easy!
However, maybe it would be possible to use certain agents:
Shidhe, normally you would not be able to talk to me as an Angel corp agent. But my corp have given permission for intelligence agents such as myself to talk to pilots of any standing - though only for small jobs (level one) till you have proved yourself. After all, who better to do intelligence jobs than a double agent! Of course there is a down side - any job you fail to complete successfully will cost you a lot of reputation with our enemies (lose 4 times standing gain for success). You understand that a double agent cannot be afford to be incompetent...
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Tovarishch
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.20 17:09:00 -
[89]
I ran missions a very long time ago. I ran a LOT of them. I have an unadjusted 10.00 with Ishukone Corp... and am currently an unadjusted -5.00 with Gallente. However, that number is rounded up... and since then Diplomacy was put in place to offset some of the pain that faction missions created.
Back when I was running missions there were a few differences. Interbus and Sisters of EVE were entirely neutral entities. You never lost standing with them regardless of what missions you ran. They also had agents you could run missions for that would give a very slight standing adjustment across the board for all factions. It was a huge help... and I ran missions for Interbus whenever I was approaching the dreaded -5.00 mark for Gallente. As such I now have a moderately high Interbus standing.
The standings change for missions which went in years back changed all that. Diplomacy was all that was left to offset an injurious standing adjustment. And as it stands now, as the OP has stated, there's jack anyone can do to reverse the damage.
I do think it should be very difficult to change course, or rework a faction standing... much more difficult than the Interbus solution of which I was able to take advantage... but I do think there should be some channel available to players to rework a faction standing if one is willing to put some effort behind it.
All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise. |
Metrius
Minmatar
mk-Ultra
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Posted - 2007.06.20 18:18:00 -
[90]
Hmm, I noticed that the Krusal tribe is tied closely to the thukkers and the thukkers are tied with a few other pirate factions. Doesn't running mission for a factions allies raise their standing a bit. So if the thukkers hated your the krusal shouldn't so your could work for the krusal and raise it with the thukker then work for the thukker. there by opening pirate missions again.
This is all conjecture.
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Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.06.20 20:58:00 -
[91]
This is why I pack up and move between Sinq in Gallente space and Citadel in Caldari space, to avoid any one faction getting too aggravated with me. My Gallente standings did go way down once, because 2 or 3 times I ran some mission for a Caldari agent that had me blowing up Gallente Navy ships. Took 3 weeks of grinding lvl 2 missions and training diplomacy to get to a lvl 3 agent.
Have you done a storyline yet with the split reward option? What sort of faction standing increase did that give you?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 23:06:00 -
[92]
post-Rev2.0 standing rewards are bugged at the moment (both solo and group), has been bugreported by many people and confirmed to be a bug.
We'll just have to wait for them to fix it first to see how it's actually supposed to be.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Tecro Nashota
Inako Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.20 23:16:00 -
[93]
Some people can't seem to understand or refuse to accept that EVE is an RPG.
The PVP, the sandbox aspect and everything else plays within these boundaries.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 23:37:00 -
[94]
If it's an RPG, explain to me why recovering standing to your archnemesis empire is relatively easy (or even if you were a filthy, filthy pirate pawn), but switching over to a life of crime is impossible if you used to be a loyal citizen for one of the empires ?
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Iracham
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.20 23:45:00 -
[95]
How about I palm a 10m ISK bribe to an agent that doesn't like me to get him to give me a job?
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Tecro Nashota
Inako Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.20 23:56:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Akita T
If it's an RPG, explain to me why recovering standing to your archnemesis empire is relatively easy (or even if you were a filthy, filthy pirate pawn), but switching over to a life of crime is impossible if you used to be a loyal citizen for one of the empires ?
Bad game mechanics !
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.20 23:58:00 -
[97]
Which part, the possible one or the impossible one ? 
You seem to imply the possible one, I say the impossible one
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Dragonrazor
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 00:16:00 -
[98]
I agree, I find it inexcusable that there is NO way to fix bad faction!
In most games of this type (ones with faction) part of the challenge for traders or those who liked to be real mercenaries was to have ways to balance their faction so they could be employed by as many people as possible.
IMHO faction shouldn't be a 1 way street... Even if it IS somewhat realistic that you can't get faction back, it is also kind of unrealistic at the same time for those who consciously attempt to stay neutral in standing but still be well employed.
The way I see it, picking a faction should garner greater immediate rewards from your allies, while staying neutral should allow you to play both sides with more diverse rewards.
Example:
Stay loyal to Caldari, you get more options for higher end goods like Navy Ravens at cheaper LP/Cash/Item exchange rates. But cannot work for guristas or buy thier Dread Guristas stuff.
Stay loyal to Gurista and all the dread Gurista stuff is cheaper... But caldari stuff is off limits.
Stay neutral, you will never be able to get a cheap deal on a Navy raven or dread Gurista stuff, but can still get one at current costs, and still be able to shop with the guristas.
As far as fixing standings, you should be able (always) to fix your standings enough to find low level employement... AFAIK, there are already agents that offer standing increase for isk payoffs, All CCP has to do is allow these agents to be used without any standing to start with, and have it cost a bundle to be restored to a level where you can work with them again (lowest quality L1 agents only).
The price could be determined by standing, costing only a little at first, but a lot after breaking -5.0... IE from the tune of 1-10 mil for 0 to -4.99, and 50-500mill for -10 to -5.00
If it had a high cost like this, players would still need to monitor their actions, and would still pay a high price for ****ing off their neutrals, but wouldn't be broken either.
To prevent exploit or power fractioning, make it so faction increase can only work for people in the gang who do not have -5 or lower to the faction, meaning they would still need to pay to be able to gain positive standing again.
*********************************************
"Stars Die... Empires fall... We are dust..."
********************************************* |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.06.21 00:17:00 -
[99]
/signed
there should never be a dead end in a mmorpg
so far the options are - do 1000 missions with friends and for other factions before you can run one for the faction you want to
thats a dead end
____ __ ________
_sig below_
the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
DaemonBarber
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Posted - 2007.06.21 00:25:00 -
[100]
How about below that -5 standing and the agents still give you a mission, they just don't pay you for it?
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daemorhedron
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Posted - 2007.06.21 00:33:00 -
[101]
Originally by: DaemonBarber
How about below that -5 standing and the agents still give you a mission, they just don't pay you for it?
That's actually not a bad suggestion at all.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.21 00:34:00 -
[102]
Seing how much of the income of a mission is from bounties and loot anyway, I wouldn't see that as a drawback at all.
Translation: too good
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Fzoul
KAOS.
KA0S Theory
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Posted - 2007.06.21 00:46:00 -
[103]
Yeah, having options is a "Good Thing"(tm)
You should be able to run negative quality, level 1 agents regardless of standings. If you have a negative standing, you only get a percentage of the gain.
That way, no door is ever truly closed, you don't have to worry about people "metagaming by changing factions on a whim" as it would be entirely too much effort to have it be usable in a short amount of time.
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cal nereus
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.06.21 06:32:00 -
[104]
Edited by: cal nereus on 21/06/2007 06:31:35
Earlier it was mentioned that some groups (such as the Gurista-Blood-Sanshas trio) are very closed circuit and the only way to up standings with them is to either work for one of the group (which won't work if you're in the OP's position), or kill all their enemies (which would make you hated by even more groups). Ultimately, I think thats the price you pay for mission-running and stuff. You pick a side to work with, and you will anger their enemies. It is very very difficult to remain friendly with everyone, but it is possible. I think it should be very difficult for people to get out of a -5 situation. You basically need to make the choice: who do I want to have -5 standings with. For me, its the blood-guristas-sanshas group. I WANT -5 standings with those guys...
I'm a noob though. NONE of the factions hate me yet.
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Tranvisor
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Posted - 2007.06.21 08:22:00 -
[105]
We do need a way to fix this issue, I am past -5 with Gurista's and Blood's and getting there with Sanshas.
Someday I may want to run missions with them!
Several good ideas have been brought forth:
Advanced Diplomacy Skill:
Sounds like a fix that may be too easy to some, but think again, what if this skill was seeded on the market at a price of something like 100+ million isk? That plus being a higher rank skill (like 3 or 4) would make it not exactly a "instant fix"
Zero-Rewards Missions:
If you are below -2 effective standing perhaps Lvl 1 Q (-20to-15) agents will still talk to you and give you missions, those missions will just come with no LP's or isk rewards, only standings.
Special "Thief" agents:
Agents spread out over 0.0 for the pirates that are say level zero that will let you work for them past -2 effective.
I have been wondering about pirate standings for awhile, would be really nice if we could get some kind of response on this :)
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Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
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Posted - 2007.06.21 08:28:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Cornucopian on 21/06/2007 08:28:53
how about bribing, worked out like this:
Neutral corps could sell bribes in their LP store that give a minor faction boost for pirates: like x LP and Y ISK.
This way it would cost time and money to alter standing, not just money (if it would cost only ISK people would be switching al the time.)
-----------------------------------------------
"LowSec Pirates are like the seagulls in Finding Nemo: instead if "mine! mine!" all they do is yell "gank! gank!" in local."
In short: brainless |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.21 09:23:00 -
[107]
Well, if you get standing increase from group missions, then I guess there's an obvious way out right there.
If that turns out not to work, I'll bring cheese and *****ers.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Rexy
DarkStar 1
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.06.21 09:30:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Frug
Well, if you get standing increase from group missions, then I guess there's an obvious way out right there.
If that turns out not to work, I'll bring cheese and *****ers.
recovering that way from -5 faction/corp standing to the point were you can run missions on your own will take a fair amount of time. They can always start decaying bad standings and leave good standings alone?
<unusual big structure 4tw> |
mogwai
Gallente
Gremlin Industries
Edge Of Sanity
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 09:53:00 -
[109]
Edited by: mogwai on 21/06/2007 09:55:19
so you guys dont know the trick?
Run SISTERS OF EVE missions and FAIL THE IMPORTANT MISSIONS 
after 4 pages of this... i hope that answer helps to get your pirate faction standings back 
(unless it was changed during the patch.... it worked for me previously)
-----------------
Drones : 19 skills, 20,480,000 points |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.21 16:02:00 -
[110]
Originally by: mogwai
so you guys dont know the trick?
Run <faction> missions and FAIL THE IMPORTANT MISSIONS
(unless it was changed during the patch.... it worked for me previously)
As said IN THE OP, that WAS changed in this last patch.
Does not work anymore.
Confirmed by at least one other in the thread.
_
New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 05:55:00 -
[111]
In an ideal world, I'd like to see small pirate standing gains for killing their opposing faction ships and relatively large gains for podding players with the appropriate high standing. i.e., Empire faction mission runners. Seems nice and piratey, and would fit in well with (small 'f') factional warfare. Anyway, it would provide a way to get around the problem that would make a lot more sense than failing missions ever did.
Which reminds me how I'd also like to see LoSec piracy nudged toward faction alignments with standing gains/losses and station docking restrictions. Ah well, a person can dream. 
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Sylthi
Minmatar
Coreward Pan-Galactic
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 20:54:00 -
[112]
Splitting faction rewards between gang mates is still way borked. It seems to be working for corp standings on normal missions, but NOT on storyline faction standings. This is a MAJOR broken issue for mission runners. I know the devs don't give a flying F about us mission runners, and only put fast fixes in for PvP issues, but F guys throw us a bone!
Also, there being NO WAY to mitigate getting shot at by NPCs in half of empire after you've run level 4 missions for a while is utter crap! I can see loosing standing with Gallente if you shoot their ships while in the employ of the Caldari on a storyline mission. But, to loose a hunk of standing with the opposing faction just for running ANY storyline mission for their rivals?!??! UTTER CRAP!!!
You devs have said in multiple blogs how you are trying to encourage people to run mission together and make it a more MMO experience. How are we supposed to go run mission with our buddies anywhere in empire if we get our ships blown away just trying to get there?!??!
I mean really, if you choose to be a pirate out in 0.0, and you don't pod, you can fly in empire all you want, anytime you want. But, you CAN'T fly in half of empire because you decide to make mission running your profession?!?! Favoritism towards the PvPers??!?! I think so!!
Fix the faction sharing between gang mates!!!! Fix a way that we can keep from getting shot at in empire just because we choose mission running as our profession!!! FIX THESE THINGS NOW PLEASE!!! They have been "broken" for far too long.
*
* |
VicturusTeSaluto
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Posted - 2007.09.18 21:20:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Well you made your bed now sleep in it.
Your argument would be like George Bush suddenlying applying for a job at Hamas HQ. IF youve done that much work for Empire allainces then youve pretty much massacred thousands of pirate NPC ships and done billions in damage so you think they will allow you to join them for a little bit of isk?
SKUNK
what the ******* **** are you talking about? That is just completely nonsensical. EVE is a video game. There is no reason why someone paying out the ass should not be able to be able to repair their NPC standings.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.18 21:26:00 -
[114]
By now, anytime someone sees a post with the name "Akita T" as the thread creator, you should know that it is bound to be worse than living in a house with Jar Jar Binks.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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EliteSlave
Minmatar
Tau Ceti Global Production
Angels Of Discord
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Posted - 2007.09.18 21:44:00 -
[115]
damn necro's go elsewhere!
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Callthetruth
Caldari
Drunken Ratbags Inc
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Posted - 2007.09.18 22:52:00 -
[116]
standings do need a way to recover, tags into cosmos agents across all factions or factional warfare
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SiJira
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 00:05:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Callthetruth
standings do need a way to recover, tags into cosmos agents across all factions or factional warfare
but do they really?
dont tell me someone got to all the trouble of doing countless missions and hundreds of storyline missions only to figure out that an enemy faction might not let them fly around in their space anymore
if i remember correctly you can run missions for an allied faction and this will raise standings
if you went this low in standing it was no accident
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
_lies above_
CCP Morpheus was here
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
[yellow]Kaem |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:22:00 -
[118]
This is eve, there are consequneces, DEAL with it, and for the record there are plenty of "no return" situations in EvE
skill training, buying something, ect
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 00:49:00 -
[119]
The only no-return situation in EVE is when you scam somebody badly enough to annihilate your reputation forever (a.k.a. "pulling a r0meo?"), or when you get under -5.0 standings with all "friendly among eachother" factions... UNLESS they somehow didn't remove the derived gain when failing a storyline too alongside the "normal" ones... in which case, the only no-return situation would be "reputation assasination".
For everything else, the cost is high, sure, but definetely not a "no return" situation.
_
[CNVTF] is recruiting | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 00:52:00 -
[120]
changed my mind, deleted my post, I should know better than to argue with akita he/she/it has no concept of... well anything
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 00:56:00 -
[121]
Guess we have different definitions for the term "no return" then. By the way, obviously, mine is right 
_
[CNVTF] is recruiting | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 00:59:00 -
[122]
no way to "return" from your pod blowing up
that pod and those implants are gone
it is called a consequence
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Riddick Valer
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 01:04:00 -
[123]
Option 1: Make negative standings gradually degrade to 0, but not positive standings.
Also make it a slow enough process that it could take 100-200 days to go from -10 to -5. This would make it a consequence, but not a non-recoverable one.
Option 2: Allow the purchase of a bribe from special agents for each faction. Costs about 100m to fix your standings by +1. (only works on negative standings)
As for the person that said podding/buying was a point of no return, it isn't. I get another pod, can buy more implants, or can raise more money. As it is, I can never go back above -5.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 01:08:00 -
[124]
sure you can buy something new, but thats not return, thats replacement, just like you CAN replace "those" agents you want, with other ones
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
DB Ops Wing
|
Posted - 2007.09.19 01:26:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 19/09/2007 01:36:02
Quote:
You are closing off parts of the game permanently to a character.
OK, skipping most of the discussion, but I did catch this, and it's why I've constantly tried to spruke this idea when anything about having game-areas closed off from having low standings arises.
INTRODUCE SOME BENEFIT TO HAVING LESS THAN -5 STANDINGS PLEASE!
Factional warfare is all well and good, but it doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned.
I'm one of the lucky ones in terms of mindframe, I *don't* care much for experiencing the content for other factions, in a slight RP sense I'm a caldari loyalist (note: Akita T, may be in touch with you soon RE: your corp), so i have no reason to want to maintain high standings to other factions/corps. But in the same way as earning a +10 standing to a corp needs a lot of hard work,, even +5 needs a bit of grinding and as a result, fetching rewards for it (better agents and mish etc). But retrospectively, those negative standings take quite a bit of effort.
I haven't thought much about expanding it out, but in the same way we go "ratting" in belts for pirates, we should be able to go to hostile hi-sec places and hunt Empire police "rats" which drop tags in place of bounties, and the occasional loot. Under the mission system, there's a flood of high-end tags for offers, and a lack of low-end tags, because people are forced to run non-profitable missions in order to get those low-end tags (plus it's an off-chance you get a mission vs the opposing faction).
When I go to Gallente space, I get attacked by a cruiser and two frigs. Fine *if I was a bout -5.5*
I'm not though. Before evil old Diplomacy kicked in (needed it for a skillbook) I was about -6/-7 to gallente. I want to see a few battlecruisers and maybe a scramfrig show up at least for that rating,, and at -9 get a couple battleships. -10 might see a venerable nightmare of 8 BS, 10 Cruisers and 10 frigates waiting, with a *real* risk you'll get popped, especially when customs help after you open fire. The trick being to lure the cops away to a planet somewhere, fight them there then get out of system, risk being you can get warp scrambled at the planet and cant insta-jump back to safe space in a border system.
Personally I think that'd fix a lot of the concerns people have about having bad standings to a faction, simple reason is there's no reason to have it. Lets have a reason for achieving a bad standing.
Also, the level of aggression could increase based on the security of the system. a -10 to gallente in a 1.0 system alone should have *nearly* no chance of survival, just the same as a non-blue in a capital player-owned system is pretty much going to die.
EDIT: this can be extended for outlaws/sec status too.
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SirMoric
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Posted - 2007.09.19 01:34:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Akita T
You should never be driven in a point-of-no-return situation in EVE, no matter what the situation is.
Yes you should... But like everything else, it's your own choice if you want to go that far...
And someone obviously did and now have to work REALLY REALLY hard to get back on the horse...
therefore :-p
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Ms DaisyMae
Burning Bush Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:04:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Stop ganking noobs?
Respect concord law?
Rat more often?
More wardec, less impulse?
More 0.0?
On another note, I have a piwate friend who comes to help me on level 4s just to kill BS sized rats to keep his sec rating on check. I guess with the new level 5s in low sec you can do something similar. Any level 5 mission runner would love to have local piwates as friends. Deals could be made.
Look it is a moron!
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Ira Theos
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:28:00 -
[128]
I agree with the OP.
I find the whole faction scheme of Eve to be worthless, unentertaining, a pointless barrier to interaction among the real players of Eve, and generally a pain in the ass.
This is probably the worst part of the game in my opinion. They could flush the faction crap entirely down the toilet and I wouldn't misss it one bit.
Yes, forcing people to run around doing missions to balance their standing is just a plain stupid game model that wastes game time.
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Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
DB Ops Wing
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Posted - 2007.09.19 03:49:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 19/09/2007 03:51:32
Quote:
Yes, forcing people to run around doing missions to balance their standing is just a plain stupid game model that wastes game time.
Which is why I've said the content available to people who have low standings need to be changed. Keep the grind in there if you want to *switch* factions,, it's not *that* huge a consequence unless you're *really* in deep with another faction (i got my alt up to lvl 4 missions with caldari before moving to guristas and grinding up with them to level 4 without much difficulty). But make it useful in *any* way for activities outside of that faction.
It just makes sense, I'd be alot more willing to join more corps and interact more with players if, for example, my whole life I've been running missions with Caldari State, then I join a corp based in gallente space, and I'm still able to do *something* which has parallel rewards. Obviously there still restrictions moving somewhere neutral, I wouldn't expect anything from that, it's starting from a naught.
As I said, the *main* reason this is an issue is that there's *only* bad which comes from having negative standings. There's no positives to actively aggressing hi-sec empire corps and incurring their wrath,,, and thats mostly due to it being an incredibly under-developed side of the game. The fact I can AFK travel through the heart of gallente space while Gallente are hostile in an untanked, basic frigate *and survive without a scratch* is pretty poor.
If people knew that when they hit -5.0 with a faction, that they could fly out to that empires sovereign space and earn a few tags here and there at a rate in accordance with their mission running capabilities, people would care a lot less about standing.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.19 04:40:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
The fact I can AFK travel through the heart of gallente space while Gallente are hostile in an untanked, basic frigate *and survive without a scratch* is pretty poor.
If people knew that when they hit -5.0 with a faction, that they could fly out to that empires sovereign space and earn a few tags here and there at a rate in accordance with their mission running capabilities, people would care a lot less about standing.
You don't get barred from a country just because they don't like you - remember, the empires are not at war. They may not like each other, but the Yulai convention (if I recall my PF correctly) created Concord ensure peace and free trade between the empires. If the empires go to war against each other, that'd be one thing, but as it stands they are not, and you have passage rights. (that is of course unless you're a wanted criminal, or are so far into the negative standings that the empire believes that they can justify engaging you)
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
DB Ops Wing
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Posted - 2007.09.19 04:58:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 19/09/2007 04:59:58
Quote:
You don't get barred from a country just because they don't like you - remember, the empires are not at war.
Without trying to get political, take a look at most countries immigration policies. You'll see very much otherwise.
Quote:
They may not like each other, but the Yulai convention (if I recall my PF correctly) created Concord ensure peace and free trade between the empires.
Sure, between the empires. But if I go into a hi-sec system and attack the empire NPC's, CONCORD does nothing. Not saying you're accusing me of being wrong, but if you don't believe me, go try it. Whether I have high standing with caldari when I attack those Gallente or not,, I'm not part of the Caldari State unless I'm part of one of their corporations.
Quote:
If the empires go to war against each other, that'd be one thing, but as it stands they are not, and you have passage rights. (that is of course unless you're a wanted criminal, or are so far into the negative standings that the empire believes that they can justify engaging you)
Not quite sure what you mean there. I *am* negative enough to be warranted opening fire upon. I want that to be the case, and I want there to be some benefit to it, whether I represent Caldari State or not. Point being the further in to negative standings I am, the greater a challenge which should be presented, and bigger rewards if I overcome it.
Don't get me wrong, I understand all the CONCORD, Yulai, empire stuff,, this isn't about it. This is me, a pod pilot, wanting to take whatever means necessary to lower my standings in order to achieve fame, fortune and all that Jazz. It's *perfectly* synonymous with mission running.
Mission running: you assist a particular faction as a mercenary, they take fancy to you, reward you with better, tougher missions with higher bounties, rewards etc should you succeed.
Anti-Empiring: You enter a particular factions space and begin engaging in criminal acts against that faction's 'NPCs' as it were, your standings drop. The further your standings drop, the tougher the NPC's become (bigger challenge) and with that comes bigger rewards (higher ranking tags etc) at higher risk, heck, give yourself a semi-global criminal countdown that lets hi-sec people attack people who have less than -5 standing with the faction who'se space you've entered.
Make it risky, make it rewarding, whatever, but make it *fun*.
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Danae Melios
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Posted - 2007.09.19 05:42:00 -
[132]
No, I didn't read the responses, so I'm probably coming in the middle of a very important flame session.
However--
Ultimately mission runners have to make a choice. Some choices you can't undo. Do you accept kill missions? How many and against whom? Do you then go and balance it out with a kill mission sponsored by the faction you just killed, to build up your standing with them?
You have to be very determined to be a fence sitter to keep all options open.
In fact, I distinctly remember some devblogs about higher level missions (I think they were level 4, or maybe 5 back when level 4 were released) discussing how accepting them would erode standings even faster, to force pilots off the fence.
As a contract employee (which is what a mission runner is) you are backing one particular faction. Back it enough and others will simply never give you the opportunity.
In game actions have in game consequences, some of them just take a longer time to surface. It takes a lot of focus to drive a faction to -5 or below standing. Players with foresight will consider that it is a BAD THING or will be a BAD THING (yes, spoken aloud in caps as well) to be considered a "criminal" in certain regions. Even if consequences currently aren't that high at any given time, the dynamic characteristics of the game should spark the thought that some day a really bad faction standing might actually mean something.
In other words, this is deliberate game design. It has been speculated since beta how faction standing might be given some oomph, some in-game meaning.
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Gizzit
Gallente
Kokonut Krushers
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Posted - 2007.09.19 06:16:00 -
[133]
Nothing is really beyond repair - splitting mission rewards will give a (minimal) corp standing increase, but not faction standings, and no standing increases for special missions. However, with a lot of time and patience, you can get improvements to any specific corp standing to the point where a low level agent will talk to you and give you missions on your own.
So, get a friend or an alt with decent standings to Guristas, or Blood Raiders, or Sanshas or whatever to gang with you while they do the mission thing.
Not quick, not a magic wand, but it works
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Amateratsu
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.19 06:26:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Gizzit
Nothing is really beyond repair - splitting mission rewards will give a (minimal) corp standing increase, but not faction standings, and no standing increases for special missions. However, with a lot of time and patience, you can get improvements to any specific corp standing to the point where a low level agent will talk to you and give you missions on your own.
So, get a friend or an alt with decent standings to Guristas, or Blood Raiders, or Sanshas or whatever to gang with you while they do the mission thing.
Not quick, not a magic wand, but it works
That won't work if your standings to the corps faction is below -2.00
even if you have positive corp/agent standings, they will not talk to you if their faction hates you
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Gizzit
Gallente
Kokonut Krushers
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Posted - 2007.09.19 06:35:00 -
[135]
Really? No coming back from -2.0 faction? My apologies for talking bollox.
Surely that is screwed though - if you have a positive standing with an agent, that should (logically) enable you to run missions for it until you can repair faction.....well it should in my opinion.
But I suppose it's CCP's game, and they make the rules. Guess I have 1 character that the Angels and Serpentis will never like.
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Kastar
Memphis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.19 06:44:00 -
[136]
I understand and approve of the OP message.
No one can tell where they end up with corp or group. Wherever you are, missions or npc'ing is a means to make money, not a lifestyle that ought to decide your future.
With factional warfare coming eventually, it might be good to at least give people a chance to prepare, and do this for any faction possible.
<idea mode on>
Bribes:
This is the part where you actually pay your way up again in standing. eg. 0,1 standing increase would cost you quite a penny, 1 standing increase could cost an arm and a leg.
you can only do this to recover negative standings, and it has the opposite effect on enemy faction standings.
<idea mode off>
-----------------------------------------------
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Gizzit
Gallente
Kokonut Krushers
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Posted - 2007.09.19 06:52:00 -
[137]
...or a new Rank 14 skill, base price 1 billion ISK, call it "Turncoat" or "Benedict Arnold" - level 1 subtracts 1.0 from all positive standings and adds 1.0 to all negative - rises to 5.0 alteration for level 5
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.19 07:16:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Laboratus on 19/09/2007 07:24:48
I approve of the op.
And gret standings table btw:)
Edit:
Quick question.
Accoarding to the backstory and the helpful bar on your left, The Syndicate is part of the gallantean block, and is a mainly intaki bloodline organisation. How come they and the gallantean federation hate eachothers guts for a good -6.00?
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.09.19 08:22:00 -
[139]
New social skill "Assume Identity"
Each level allows you to COPY STANDINGS FROM A DIFFERENT CHARACTER, for a large ISK cost reduced by skill level, and at a reduced level.
You can enable an identity change at any given time, but it only takes effect after a portrait swap (ka-ching, 20$ for CCP) between characters.
Standings copied over are those of the other character, obviously
Degree of standings "copied" are 5% of the other character's standings per level of skill.
So, if the other char had 0 all over, a new char, you get all zeroes too... but if he had, say, -5.00 with Guristas and +5.00 with Caldari, and you had a L4 "Assume Identity" skill, you get -1.00 Guristas and +1.00 Caldari.
_
[CNVTF] is recruiting | Char creation guide | Stack-nerfing explained |
Drizit
Amarr
Lonely out here
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.19 08:40:00 -
[140]
I can already see the problem myself. I have been doing missions for Amarr to get enough standing for a JC. This has led my Gallente standing to drop quite considerably. If it goes below -5, the only recourse is to start down the metagame path and gang with an alt who does Gallente missions to get it back up again.
Personally, I have no problem with metagaming since it often means double the work so the marginal isk gain is offset. Many online game players have multiple accounts anyway, it's quite common. I do have a problem when games force you to metagame though.
OK, work for Caldari and so on but the gain is so small that it takes forever and turns Eve into a grind which is what I thought CCP wanted to avoid.
--
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.19 08:48:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Shameless Avenger
Stop ganking noobs?
Respect concord law?
Rat more often?
More wardec, less impulse?
More 0.0?
fail.
isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
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Eve Innovative
Eve Innovative Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.19 09:51:00 -
[142]
With faction standing below -5.00 you should be well prepared for factional warfare.
You must have very good standing with another faction then.
I play EVE as a mmorpg (yes, it is actually also a Role Playing Game), and I stick to my faction and it's allies.
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Jackie Fisher
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Posted - 2007.09.19 10:21:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Drizit
If it goes below -5, the only recourse is to start down the metagame path and gang with an alt who does Gallente missions to get it back up again.
Sadly that doesn't work. You will gain LPs and Corp standing but NOT faction standing.
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2007.09.19 11:57:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Drizit
I can already see the problem myself. I have been doing missions for Amarr to get enough standing for a JC. This has led my Gallente standing to drop quite considerably. If it goes below -5, the only recourse is to start down the metagame path and gang with an alt who does Gallente missions to get it back up again.
Well can I say that you are not telling all truth? Gallente vs Ammars have -5 rating so it will take a huge work to get their standing below -5 while working for Ammar. And you resulting Ammar Standing will be much greatly than you need.
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