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Kirell
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:48:00 -
[1]
As many people know Asherons Call was a great game, first of it's kind with a new feel and a new way of doing nearly everything. It had a strong community, and a good subscribership at it's peak having to open a new server every few months to deal with the load. Alas after so much tim ein the Sun, Asherons Call perished (I'm sure AC2 bombing helped it as well) Except for a few loyal followers AC fell into the past.
EVE online and AC have alot in common. Small subscriber base of loyal fans, sort of a niche in the market holding the interest of a certain group and of course constantly trying to attract more.
Now the reason why I say it is doomed....
Today I tried (as many days before) to convince a few friends to try EVE online, to give it a shot with the free 14 day trial. Figured why not show others what a great game this is. Their response to this query of mine, " EVE online has been corrupted by it's own developers, We had read on the internet that the people who run EVE were cheating in thier own game"
Now, I was surprised to hear this from them since they have never played EVE, and I have never talked to them about the game. But the Incidents concerning the developers helping alliances in game (namely BoB) have reached far more than just the EVE community.
Now no matter what BoB accomplishes, even if they eventually control all of 0.0 space, or 90% of it or whatever they will have this hang over thier heads, and never truly be able to have thier accomplishment respected by players in game ( at least those that oppose BoB) But this whole issue has damaged CCP's role in EVE to the point where they have cost themselves possibly a large number of new subscribers.
I also take into account that not so long ago, peak periods of EVE had reached well over 30,000 and now, these last couple of weeks I check peak times and I see it dropping at steady rate. I also see alot of forums where people are quitting eve due to "Lack of trust in CCP"
And while EVE still remains a great game, with alot of great things to come, I believe that in the not so distant future it will be joining Asherons Call on that lonely road, I am sure there will be the regular followers, the fanboi's of CCP trying to keep it alive, but with MMO's multiplying faster than rabbits people will move elsewhere quickly.
Maybe you don't feel that way, which is good in some ways, or maybe you don't care.... it's no matter this is just my thoughts on EVE onlines future sustainability as a competetive MMO in the future to come.
And no.... this isn't a BoB thread... Just my thoughts on why EVE is doomed, purely the fault of CCP due to lack of proper boundries for thier own employees involvement in the game.
CCP should have taken greater measures to prevent thier employees from being too heavily involved in the player alliances. Most people in a position of power like that in a competative environment will be vastly tempted to tip the scale in thier favor.
Discuss, please avoid flaming. all VALID opinions welcome.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:50:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 13:52:47
 Quote:
As many people know Asherons Call was a great game, first of it's kind with a new feel and a new way of doing nearly everything. It had a strong community, and a good subscribership at it's peak having to open a new server every few months to deal with the load. Alas after so much tim ein the Sun, Asherons Call perished (I'm sure AC2 bombing helped it as well) Except for a few loyal followers AC fell into the past.
EVE online and AC have alot in common. Small subscriber base of loyal fans, sort of a niche in the market holding the interest of a certain group and of course constantly trying to attract more.
Now the reason why I say it is doomed....
Today I tried (as many days before) to convince a few friends to try EVE online, to give it a shot with the free 14 day trial. Figured why not show others what a great game this is. Their response to this query of mine, " EVE online has been corrupted by it's own developers, We had read on the internet that the people who run EVE were cheating in thier own game"
Now, I was surprised to hear this from them since they have never played EVE, and I have never talked to them about the game. But the Incidents concerning the developers helping alliances in game (namely Red Alliance) have reached far more than just the EVE community.
Now no matter what Red Alliance accomplishes, even if they eventually control all of 0.0 space, or 90% of it or whatever they will have this hang over thier heads, and never truly be able to have thier accomplishment respected by players in game ( at least those that oppose Red Alliance) But this whole issue has damaged CCP's role in EVE to the point where they have cost themselves possibly a large number of new subscribers.
I also take into account that not so long ago, peak periods of EVE had reached well over 30,000 and now, these last couple of weeks I check peak times and I see it dropping at steady rate. I also see alot of forums where people are quitting eve due to "Lack of trust in CCP"
And while EVE still remains a great game, with alot of great things to come, I believe that in the not so distant future it will be joining Asherons Call on that lonely road, I am sure there will be the regular followers, the fanboi's of CCP trying to keep it alive, but with MMO's multiplying faster than rabbits people will move elsewhere quickly.
Maybe you don't feel that way, which is good in some ways, or maybe you don't care.... it's no matter this is just my thoughts on EVE onlines future sustainability as a competetive MMO in the future to come.
And no.... this isn't a Red Alliance thread... Just my thoughts on why EVE is doomed, purely the fault of CCP due to lack of proper boundries for thier own employees involvement in the game.
CCP should have taken greater measures to prevent thier employees from being too heavily involved in the player alliances. Most people in a position of power like that in a competative environment will be vastly tempted to tip the scale in thier favor.
Discuss, please avoid flaming. all VALID opinions welcome.
See, its like mad libs, it makes just as much sense! Tomorrow, we can use "Sparta Alliance" or "Kleptomaniacs"!
(P.S. Subscription numbers are rising faster than ever, last I heard)
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
The Ratfink
Itto-Ryu
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:52:00 -
[3]
IBDS oh godammit he beats everyone again!
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:52:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39
AC is still not dead
i was big wiz on frostfell and wish-bone on DT, i played that bloody game for 6 years so i rather know the game you talk about...
the difference is the playerbase. it was incredibly dedicated but SMALL in AC... they didnt pass much above 100k subbed users.
only common point was that it was hardcore and a killer to start. not one of those "take my hand" minesweepers like WoW
AC2 never lived, period
i dont agree eve and AC are similar at all, nor in the community nor in the game
no real player interaction in AC. you could sit on friends mansion for ages, its still their mansion. collect their corpse is all you can do
in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire. thats a different image :p
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kirell
Just my thoughts on why EVE is doomed, purely the fault of CCP due to lack of proper boundries for thier own employees involvement in the game.
CCP should have taken greater measures to prevent thier employees from being too heavily involved in the player alliances. Most people in a position of power like that in a competative environment will be vastly tempted to tip the scale in thier favor.
Depending on the severity it's grounds for instant termination of their contract/job. What boundaries do you expect? Execution?
Quote:
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Sharupak
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:56:00 -
[6]
They probably got their info from mmorpg.com which is full of misinfo about games from people that play the trial and then whine.
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Galmar Grief
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:57:00 -
[7]
I see the argument you're making but you're forgetting "Internal Affairs" now exists, I can only guess that they either made this in a last ditch attempt to make players happy or that cheating really was / is that rampant.
In anycase, this thread is kinda pointless, if EVE is dying it'll die, if not it'll grow, I guess we'll see, but for the time being I'm happyish.
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Snake Jankins
Minmatar
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:57:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kirell
I also take into account that not so long ago, peak periods of EVE had reached well over 30,000 and now, these last couple of weeks I check peak times and I see it dropping at steady rate. I also see alot of forums where people are quitting eve due to "Lack of trust in CCP"
Yesterday we had over 30.000 and it's summertime for the northern hemisphere, where most subscribers live.
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Kirell
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:57:00 -
[9]
First this isn't a topic about "cheating" it's about CCP's own employees being too involved with player alliances and thus tarnishing the image of CCP's fair play within it's own game.
second, AC is dead. I tried to play it a few months back just for kicks. they have 1500 current subscribers and are considering pulling the plug.
AC had a great community, obviously you never found anyone to do anything with. I played AC for 4 years myself (with a few breaks)
No, not a goon alt.... at least not that I was aware of. I don't own any T1 ships.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:58:00 -
[10]
People who believe propaganda, things told on the internet or me, should go have a CAT scan 
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:58:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 13:57:33
Originally by: Kirell
First this isn't a topic about "cheating" it's about CCP's own employees being too involved with player alliances and thus tarnishing the image of CCP's fair play within it's own game.
Because clearly, a single BoB member joking about MSNing a dev and another single employee cheating while part of an alliance and getting disciplined for it is proof that CCP is getting way too involved with alliances.
What next? The static complex removal in Revelations II was clearly an attack on RA: CCP MUST BE BOB ALTS! 
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Alice Cholmondeley
Christine.
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:59:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kirell
As many people know Asherons Call was a great game, first of it's kind with a new feel and a new way of doing nearly everything. It had a strong community, and a good subscribership at it's peak having to open a new server every few months to deal with the load. Alas after so much tim ein the Sun, Asherons Call perished (I'm sure AC2 bombing helped it as well) Except for a few loyal followers AC fell into the past.
EVE online and AC have alot in common. Small subscriber base of loyal fans, sort of a niche in the market holding the interest of a certain group and of course constantly trying to attract more.
Now the reason why I say it is doomed....
Today I tried (as many days before) to convince a few friends to try EVE online, to give it a shot with the free 14 day trial. Figured why not show others what a great game this is. Their response to this query of mine, " EVE online has been corrupted by it's own developers, We had read on the internet that the people who run EVE were cheating in thier own game"
Now, I was surprised to hear this from them since they have never played EVE, and I have never talked to them about the game. But the Incidents concerning the developers helping alliances in game (namely BoB) have reached far more than just the EVE community.
Now no matter what BoB accomplishes, even if they eventually control all of 0.0 space, or 90% of it or whatever they will have this hang over thier heads, and never truly be able to have thier accomplishment respected by players in game ( at least those that oppose BoB) But this whole issue has damaged CCP's role in EVE to the point where they have cost themselves possibly a large number of new subscribers.
I also take into account that not so long ago, peak periods of EVE had reached well over 30,000 and now, these last couple of weeks I check peak times and I see it dropping at steady rate. I also see alot of forums where people are quitting eve due to "Lack of trust in CCP"
And while EVE still remains a great game, with alot of great things to come, I believe that in the not so distant future it will be joining Asherons Call on that lonely road, I am sure there will be the regular followers, the fanboi's of CCP trying to keep it alive, but with MMO's multiplying faster than rabbits people will move elsewhere quickly.
Maybe you don't feel that way, which is good in some ways, or maybe you don't care.... it's no matter this is just my thoughts on EVE onlines future sustainability as a competetive MMO in the future to come.
And no.... this isn't a BoB thread... Just my thoughts on why EVE is doomed, purely the fault of CCP due to lack of proper boundries for thier own employees involvement in the game.
CCP should have taken greater measures to prevent thier employees from being too heavily involved in the player alliances. Most people in a position of power like that in a competative environment will be vastly tempted to tip the scale in thier favor.
Discuss, please avoid flaming. all VALID opinions welcome.
Just because you hide your message (read; whine) in alot of text doesn't mean no one will recognize the goon in you. |
Vorketh Mordanil
Amarr
Brotherhood of Acquisitions
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:59:00 -
[13]
I think Pirates of the Burning Sea is going to hurt this game a lot if it is as successful as it appears it may (once it FINALLY gets released... rant rant rant...). Either way, I think EVE is definitely improving as a game though... I'm a returning quitter, and although I originally intended to play only until PotBS was released, but since deciding that, I have opened a second account, and have declared that barring total collapse of EVE, I'm going to have to budget my time between the two games, as EVE is just such an amazing and unique universe. I've yet to be directly affected by BoB... I'm one of those guys who makes his home in a 0.5 as close to 0.0 as possible so I have somewhere to run. But either way, I think that even BoB itself contributes to the scale of this game - that an alliance SO massive with SO MANY RESOURCES can still have no direct effect on a large group of players.
Not many games can claim that their players actually have an effect on each other even indirectly, but this game has a lot of power in that regard.
Have hope - this game has as bright a future as can shine in the darkness of space :)
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.21 13:59:00 -
[14]
CCP didn't tarnish it's reputations. Several customers did. And yeah it's bad for business. But EVE isn't even close to going the AC way. So I wouldn't worry about it.
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Spoon Thumb
Khanid Aerospace Group
Khanid Provincial Authority
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:00:00 -
[15]
I don't know much about AC but you've failed to describe it adequately or how it is similar to Eve in any respect aside from circumstancial subscriber numbers
Khaldari
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EnglishBob
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:01:00 -
[16]
I have opposed BoB in the past and no doubt will again in the future and I fully respect BoB for both their achievements and skill in game. I'm also man enough to take defeat without whining about cheating and victory without hitting the forums like billy big-*******s. Many others in this game play the same way.
More people should try it, Bitterness rarely helps.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley
Originally by: Kirell
snip.
Just because you hide your message (read; whine) in alot of text doesn't mean no one will recognize the goon in you.
Says the BoB-alt 
Anyway, CCP did take a huge hit on their reputation undoubtedly from all this. Recovering from it will take time, and the experience will hopefully be a powerful reminder for CCP and all its employees to act responsibly. Assuming CCP has cleaned up its act, it should be able to recover over time though.
------------------------------------------------
Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
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Alexi Borizkova
Caldari
New Age Solutions
New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:07:00 -
[18]
Eve is like AC in that the pvp is awesome, and meaningful. You get to kill people and take their stuff. I said "get". I'd love to see a new fantasy mmo with murder for profit and a engine that doesn't look like a saturday morning cartoon.
I just wish the other game developers would nut the hell up and add consequence laden pvp and not just ape WoW. Even the conan mmo will give you some damned tokens for pvp instead of real plunder. Robert Howard rolls in his grave and I weep with sadness.
Like AC, eve will still be around in years after most of the memberbase leaves. Darktide still lives, so shall tranquility.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:08:00 -
[19]
EvE is known a lot more as a Griefer's Paradise than "Devs Cheating".
Griefing (or perceived griefing) has kept more players away than Goon propaganda ever will. Do some searches on the Internet and Griefing in online games == EvE.
<----------->
Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Karim alRashid
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:09:00 -
[20]
When all else fails, accuse opponent of "whining".
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 14:10:16
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley
Originally by: Kirell
snip.
Just because you hide your message (read; whine) in alot of text doesn't mean no one will recognize the goon in you.
Says the BoB-alt
Anyway, CCP did take a huge hit on their reputation undoubtedly from all this. Recovering from it will take time, and the experience will hopefully be a powerful reminder for CCP and all its employees to act responsibly. Assuming CCP has cleaned up its act, it should be able to recover over time though.
I agree with this partly; CCP obviously did take a reputation hit from this and they will recover, but I don't think it was a very large one; going by the comments on many off-EVE sites that discussed this, most people (read: people who have never played EVE) saw the word "Goon" and laughed off the accusations completely given the reputation of SomethingAwful.
If anything, I'd say that those playing the game probably lost a lot more confidence in CCP than those who aren't EVE veterans... myself included.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Frygok
Minmatar
Mean Anglo-Danes
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:17:00 -
[22]
You really like using Red Alliance as an example of a cheating alliance, eh DS?
Am I just seeing things, or do you comment all these threads about BoB with stuff about Red Alliance?
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LunaticWithCandy
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:22:00 -
[23]
Edited by: LunaticWithCandy on 21/06/2007 14:21:16
As a new player to the game can someone point me in the direction of a thread/history explaining the "BoB Incident"?
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HAL 9000
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:25:00 -
[24]
As others have said, AC isn't dead; you can still play. It's had a very good run.
As for the CCP/BoB business, my newb friends don't seem to care at all, and the new ombudsman program seems pretty reassuring in any case. In fact, the BoB controversy generated new interest in the game among my guild-members, several of whom have signed up within the last few weeks. From my vantage-point, at least, this is an example where there's no such thing as bad publicity.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Frygok
You really like using Red Alliance as an example of a cheating alliance, eh DS?
Am I just seeing things, or do you comment all these threads about BoB with stuff about Red Alliance?
Because they are the most well-known alliance to use blatant exploits (read: multiple trillions of ISK cheated from bugged 8/10 complexes).
There are plenty of others, of course, but they're the most well known and public.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Vitrael
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:29:00 -
[26]
In the future, can we just lock all topics that have to do with Eve "dying"? Thanks.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:38:00 -
[27]
I've had several freinds refuse to try EVE because they heard about the integrity issues.
Most recently though, right before the patch a buddy d/led the trial. He told me he tried to mine for 2 or 3 hours, but every mining cycle he'd only get 1 unit of ore, and assumed he needed to mine for several hours for the tutorial. He said other noob pilots had the same issue. He quit and deleted the game, and when I told him something wasn't right, he didn't want to hear it. His words, "I want to play a game to have fun, not to get angry, and that made me angry".
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Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 13:58:09
Hi goon!
See, its like mad libs, it makes just as much sense! Tomorrow, we can use "Sparta Alliance" or "Kleptomaniacs"!
(P.S. Subscription numbers are rising faster than ever, last I heard)
omfg, I can't believe I'm gonna reply to a dark shikari post!!!! He is teh Pwnzor!?
Ahem....
Dark, if this is true, then why did CCP drop the server load graph they used to have on the site? When I started eve (a week before the 'scandal') numbers were always in the 30k+ range after I got back from work.
These days they average out at less than 30K: this is a noticable drop in userbase.
I don't believe EVE will fade like asheron, since EVE is a unique game in many rights, but the 'scandal' has hurt CCPs rep and the trust it's clients have in the game as a valid entertainment product.
I also firmly believe that the independant committee is nothing more than a pacifier.
Eve, however, wont die soon!!! NEVER!
p.s. DS -> your sigs rule. I laugh at em every time.
-----------------------------------------------
"LowSec Pirates are like the seagulls in Finding Nemo: instead if "mine! mine!" all they do is yell "gank! gank!" in local."
In short: brainless |
Karim alRashid
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vitrael
In the future, can we just lock all topics that have to do with Eve "dying"? Thanks.
No.
Thanks.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.21 14:43:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 14:42:35
Originally by: Cornucopian
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 13:58:09
Hi goon!
See, its like mad libs, it makes just as much sense! Tomorrow, we can use "Sparta Alliance" or "Kleptomaniacs"!
(P.S. Subscription numbers are rising faster than ever, last I heard)
omfg, I can't believe I'm gonna reply to a dark shikari post!!!! He is teh Pwnzor!?
Ahem....
Dark, if this is true, then why did CCP drop the server load graph they used to have on the site? When I started eve (a week before the 'scandal') numbers were always in the 30k+ range after I got back from work.
Because it was bugged. The old one had a bug where it always showed zero at the 1 hour mark no matter what the player population was.
Server numbers are still in the 30k range all the time from my experience. CCP has stated that subscriber numbers are approaching 200k (from the previous 165k), so that's a rise in subscriptions. What it means is we're getting more casual players, or more players in other time zones.
Edit: Actually the graph is still linked from the main page, suggesting that "removing" it was an accident; they probably broke the code instead.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
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