| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
   |
Posted - 2007.06.21 18:58:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 18:57:48
 Originally by: Runix Nightwalker
The Solution: There's only one solution: developers off the production server, completely. Does that stink? Well yes, but then, so does not being able to own stock in companies you research full-time. But it's the only way to resolve a clear conflict of interest. Employees vs paying customers: should be an easy choice to make, but apparently not.
How are developers supposed to improve a game that they cannot even play?
Over a decade of MMORPG failures have demonstrated that you cannot have a successful MMORPG where the developers do not play the game.
Its a choice between a bunch of tinfoil hatters worrying about bias and a game not worth playing. I'll choose the former.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 19:08:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Wendat Huron on 21/06/2007 19:08:04
Is it just me or did Dark Shikari lose any cool he used to have and is now only a shell of his former self with the hand of BoB firmly lodged up the rear?
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 19:12:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 19:13:17
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Is it just me or did Dark Shikari lose any cool he used to have and is now only a shell of his former self with the hand of BoB firmly lodged up the rear?
What happened is I got utterly completely sick of the whines.
If enough people whine about something, I end up taking the opposite position as them, regardless of how valid their whines are. I just get utterly sick of the whining.
What I'm annoyed with right now are the floods of unsubstantiated accusations relating to t20... six months after the fact. We're all sick of the arguments; it was beaten to death in every way, shape and form in the HUNDRED PAGES of discussion after the incident. Some people spent WEEKS doing little more than debating it. I personally set up an anonymous discussion board for that sole purpose, since threads were being locked on these forums.
And now that we're all back to it again, and honestly, I don't give a crap about it anymore.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Runix Nightwalker
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 19:20:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
How are developers supposed to improve a game that they cannot even play?
Over a decade of MMORPG failures have demonstrated that you cannot have a successful MMORPG where the developers do not play the game.
Its a choice between a bunch of tinfoil hatters worrying about bias and a game not worth playing. I'll choose the former.
Restrict the developers to the test server. RTSs have proven that the best feedback does not come from the developers--it comes from players who play the game a tremendous amount, preferably professional players. EVE doesn't have those, but it has no shortage of players who are happy to provide extremely detailed feedback. Also, developers can (as developers of other MMOs) use a "god mode" to watch other players play on the production server--quick and easy way to find exploits, identify imbalances, etc. Does EVE Online have a "god mode" accessible to the developers that lets them spy on--whoops, I mean "observe"--other players? Say, that's a good question, now where did I put that tinfoil hat . . .
Easy prediction: somebody else from CCP is going to get caught cheating. It's just too easy for them, and the alliance wars have become an issue of personal pride, which can easily push even the most rational of people to do foolish things. CCP better have their policies lined up, and they had better know how they're going to handle it if it turns out to be one of their critical developers or higher-ups, because I guarantee you it's going to happen again.
|
Angellyne
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 19:21:00 -
[125]
Asheron's Call lost subscribers for a few reasons. For one thing, they turned a blind eye to macros for too long. That is, combat macros stationed in dungeons, repeatedly killing monsters for experience points. By the time they created an anti-macro policy, too many people had already given up and moved on to Anarchy Online, Shadowbane, Camelot or something else.
Plus there was the natural migration to those newer games, similar enough to appeal to the sword & wand crowd, but offering new graphics & gameplay.
You could argue that Eve has a macro problem (more a farming problem really) similar to AC's... but it's hard to say whether this is driving people away.
You could argue that "big guilds" caused problems in both games - in AC you had "Blood" and "Order of the Iron Fist" making bad names for themselves. But here it's hard to equate the two since AC had multiple shards.
It's probably safe to expect Eve to lose business when there's competition from some new sci-fi themed MMO, but... the sci-fi theme is only part of Eve's appeal. If a new sci-fi game comes out with the same sort of dog-eat-dog mentality, but with joystick control, atmospheric flight, terraforming, or what have you - revolutionary stuff - Eve could really struggle.
|
Karim alRashid
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 19:35:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Edited by: Wendat Huron on 21/06/2007 19:08:04
Is it just me or did Dark Shikari lose any cool he used to have and is now only a shell of his former self with the hand of BoB firmly lodged up the rear?
Not only you. It happened somewhere in the middle of the Threadnaught Weekend.
|
Pilok Shitfly
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 19:55:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
And now that we're all back to it again, and honestly, I don't give a crap about it anymore.
You reply, so you do care.
All these problems with cheating dev(s), true or not is a problem for eve.
Maybe not for those who already play but those who maybe wanted to try the game, but don't because they believe these stories.
And i'm sure ccp cares, just most players don't.
|
AegriSomnia
Caldari
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 20:24:00 -
[128]
To the OP:
I hope you at least took the time to explain to your friends that despite what they have read online about EVE, the entire affair that came out HAS ABSOLUTLEY NO BEARING WHAT SO EVER on 90% of the community. RAGoon/BoB/<insert your alliance name here> and their politics will be so frigging far removed from what you are going to be involved with in the first 2-3 months of playing, its not even worth thinking about. I hope you didnt turn into a wet noodle when they said that and didnt try to defend the game. The GAME is fantastic. CCP as a whole is pretty alright, as well. I think that everyone is really ready to move on from this whole thing.
To the rest of you:
You all talk about how sick of this you are, but then cant help yourself from posting the same old crap on yet another whodunnit thread. This is bordering on obsessive compulsive behavior. Stop it.
Originally by: grayson 34
Thank you for yall's advice, and a special thanks to AegriSomnia for reminding me that there are still ***holes in the world.
|
w33b0b
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:03:00 -
[129]
Asherons call was amazing ... I played for years it was the best mmog
I've played and I've played loads.
The reason I left and many others I know had nothing to do
with Macros it was the never ending nerfs ( tweaks ) to appease the balance god.
It had in my opinion the best set up of any of the mmogs.
The graphics were bettered by many but the ganeplay was unequalled...
The allegations of insider dealing as it were by CCP don't concern me much at all.
I don't believe there's widespread abuse and if there are a few incidents I can
live with that.
It's the constant nerfs that concern me. I don't expect things to be balanced ...
some things should be better in some situations than others.
And when a game gets as complicated as eve what we don't need is another 1000 options we need bug fixes and lag fixes. Chess only has eight different pieces and 64 squares
and it's complicated enough and so is eve ...so fix what we have.
|
RossP Zoyka
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:07:00 -
[130]
Dark Shikira is my hero
|
MotherMoon
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:42:00 -
[131]
I must ask
I never played this game your speaking of
but did it release things like titans and walking and EvE voice (even if it's going to cost) and Sov, and buildable stations and contracts and new space and a way to make items your no suppose to be able to make, and moving all the belts or something common to the whole game since day 1 to a whole new system like exploration, and other things that Completely change and **** people off while making new players join?
EvE hasn't entered a period of decline in the playerbase yet
and walking isn't even out
BAsicly were getting EvE 2 before they milk EVE for money.
and they will keep changing things like moving your guns out side and making the skills take 40 days
even if thousands of players leave
because what does it do?
it makes more people play
I'm just wondering if this game you're speaking of did anything that make everyone go WOAH what?
and not just new classes and races and monsters and attacks
I'm talking whole new game fuctions
good example is 1up.com which gave eve a 4 out of 10 4 years ago
if you read games for windows they rereviews eve about 5 months ago and gave the game a 9/10
I have NEVER seena game do this ever
This is why I play EVE
because WoW was and even with the new expansion, the same thing, and it never changes
even if the game is question is fun and epic :)
earthbound is my favorite game ever :)
but it got a lower score in a rereview resently and I didn't disagree with it. because it's old
if you rereiewed the eve back in 2004, it would get a 2/10
now it would get a 8/10 in my book :)
|
Hamfast
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 21:48:00 -
[132]
Originally by: w33b0b
Asherons call was amazing ... I played for years it was the best mmog
I've played and I've played loads.
The reason I left and many others I know had nothing to do
with Macros it was the never ending nerfs ( tweaks ) to appease the balance god.
It had in my opinion the best set up of any of the mmogs.
The graphics were bettered by many but the ganeplay was unequalled...
The allegations of insider dealing as it were by CCP don't concern me much at all.
I don't believe there's widespread abuse and if there are a few incidents I can
live with that.
It's the constant nerfs that concern me. I don't expect things to be balanced ...
some things should be better in some situations than others.
And when a game gets as complicated as eve what we don't need is another 1000 options we need bug fixes and lag fixes. Chess only has eight different pieces and 64 squares
and it's complicated enough and so is eve ...so fix what we have.
QFT!!
Macro's in AC, Combat or otherwise, were to help make up for the UI issues, Decal and the Plug-ins that people used were done to enhance play as the player saw it, and not by the whole... Had the AC Devs been given the time and resources, many of those macro's and TPA's may have been incorporated into the game (as several were early on).
Nerfing in the name of Balance, Failure to advertise (for years), no way for new players to get the game (for years), no boxes on shelves (for years) are what hurt AC...
None of us is as dumb as all of us...
|
Ftuoil Xelrash
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 22:20:00 -
[133]
Directd To the orginal Poster:
YOU are an IDIOT to try and even closely relate AC to EVE.
As someone who has played AC since BETA, every single damn day till now, on the ONLY PVP server Dartide, I refute your accusations and ASSumptions. AC1 Died becuase the company who created it Turbine made about as many BAD decisions.
Lets see, lets list a few...
>Too many servers
>HORRIBLE connectivity and LAG issues, even till this day with only like 300-400 people on the server at peek time
Does Tubine care? Hell no, if you made a post on the AC forums, it would even tualy get locked, telling you "nothing is wrong"
>GRIND, Rinse, Repeat...
AC1 is old, crusty and more stale then my grand mothers underpants.
The ONLY thing left to do in this game for older players is PVP. All quests with the eccption of like MAYBE 4 can
be soloed and finished in less then a few hours.
>DECAL...
Although I am personaly one of the last of the Plug-in creators, upkeepers, and very much enjoy the great plugins i created for my guild, as well as the rest of the players on other server. I can tell you, this was a bad bad thing for AC1. It made EVERY as easy and click and walk away. Leveling, crafting, selling, and yes even doing nothing...
Now after the damage has been done, Decal is the only thing keeping ppl around to play the game at all. Even the devlopers of Decal do not have aftive accounts and presume AC1 is going to die real quickly.
>POOR content...
Hey I know, lets make a game with 2938429386 monsters that ALL look the same but give them different names!
This was pretty crappy idea they have abused for 7 years now. Makes me sick.
>1999 Graphics engine, on freakin overload!
I think that about sums that one up...
>No advertisment...
3 exspanson releases..., millios of store in Americia... Not a single copy can be found.
How are you supposed to get new players again 
>Billing...
1999 graphics and game play @ a 2007 price! What a bargin!
>EXPLOITS, EXPLOITS, EXPLOTS
Not to mention dupeing, dupeing and more dupeing.
You can show them how to reproduce something, and they still deney it!
>Lack of support...
You can basily open up the in game help console
click on the button that is labeled "URGENT ASSISTANCE" at any time of any day
and type in all CAPPS as many coloful words you want to exspress your anger and never ever EVER even get a responce.
ALL THE WHILE, out of the blue, vary rarely, some ****ed of Intern, will get the night shift stuck on urgent assistance, and take out his agressions randomly on a handfull of people with BANS from the game for doing something they have been getting away with In Game for months... Go figure....
They are, from my guess, AT LEAST 1000 accounts permantly banned from playing for one thing or another...
That is real good for population and the pocket book...
>Devloper Interaction...
Huh? What? This game has developers still?
Besides the VERY FEW(1) producer who does nothign more then sit on the forums and ban people all days for very heartfilled posts full of love for the game, there is NO developer-player interaction. They had the first actual "dev chat" a few months ago that has been held in like 2 years. It was on IRC, setup by a player, lasted like 20 minutes and went kinda like this.
Player: Can you possibly do this?
Dev: Not with the current tech
Player: Can you possibly do this?
Dev: No
Player: Can you possibly do this?
Dev: I don't really think so
Player: Can you possibly do this?
Dev: No
Player" How about this?
Dev: No
Thank you for joining this chat.
Good night
>And just WHERE did all the money from AC1 go and how is all the dev time being spent?
Easy answer, 2 VERY HORRILE games that are also fallign right into the AC2 pit of death
If Tubine a winner they should have created a "REAL" AC1 exspansion instead of trash like AC2, D&D and LOTR
Don't take this wrong, but i freaking LOVE AC1!!!!
|
Ftuoil Xelrash
|
Posted - 2007.06.21 22:21:00 -
[134]
CONT:
I have lots of friends who do also.
The game was the most orginal game ever EVER.
I even played EVE BETA, but could not pull away from AC1 becuase of its power!
|
MasterDecoy
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 04:51:00 -
[135]
@ op
OHNOES!!!
my account > cancel subscription.
thank you come again
Originally by: Gan Dalf
What's going on? Why is TQ down? Who is "GMT"? What's 'Reality', will it hurt?
|
Kirell
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 04:55:00 -
[136]
I would like to thank most people who have taken the time to write non falming/ on topic replies, while we all know everyone might not agree at it's always good to see some debate on an issue that walks a path avoiding the Forum Mod snippzors everywhere.
cheers.
Also, I happen to like EVE the pvp, the exploration and invention, and even sometimes the mining. And I've been playing well over 2.5 yrs.
|
Richard Aiel
Caldari
The Funkstars Guild
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 05:26:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 21/06/2007 13:58:09
Hi goon!
Quote:
As many people know Asherons Call was a great game, first of it's kind with a new feel and a new way of doing nearly everything. It had a strong community, and a good subscribership at it's peak having to open a new server every few months to deal with the load. Alas after so much tim ein the Sun, Asherons Call perished (I'm sure AC2 bombing helped it as well) Except for a few loyal followers AC fell into the past.
EVE online and AC have alot in common. Small subscriber base of loyal fans, sort of a niche in the market holding the interest of a certain group and of course constantly trying to attract more.
Now the reason why I say it is doomed....
Today I tried (as many days before) to convince a few friends to try EVE online, to give it a shot with the free 14 day trial. Figured why not show others what a great game this is. Their response to this query of mine, " EVE online has been corrupted by it's own developers, We had read on the internet that the people who run EVE were cheating in thier own game"
Now, I was surprised to hear this from them since they have never played EVE, and I have never talked to them about the game. But the Incidents concerning the developers helping alliances in game (namely Red Alliance) have reached far more than just the EVE community.
Now no matter what Red Alliance accomplishes, even if they eventually control all of 0.0 space, or 90% of it or whatever they will have this hang over thier heads, and never truly be able to have thier accomplishment respected by players in game ( at least those that oppose Red Alliance) But this whole issue has damaged CCP's role in EVE to the point where they have cost themselves possibly a large number of new subscribers.
I also take into account that not so long ago, peak periods of EVE had reached well over 30,000 and now, these last couple of weeks I check peak times and I see it dropping at steady rate. I also see alot of forums where people are quitting eve due to "Lack of trust in CCP"
And while EVE still remains a great game, with alot of great things to come, I believe that in the not so distant future it will be joining Asherons Call on that lonely road, I am sure there will be the regular followers, the fanboi's of CCP trying to keep it alive, but with MMO's multiplying faster than rabbits people will move elsewhere quickly.
Maybe you don't feel that way, which is good in some ways, or maybe you don't care.... it's no matter this is just my thoughts on EVE onlines future sustainability as a competetive MMO in the future to come.
And no.... this isn't a Red Alliance thread... Just my thoughts on why EVE is doomed, purely the fault of CCP due to lack of proper boundries for thier own employees involvement in the game.
CCP should have taken greater measures to prevent thier employees from being too heavily involved in the player alliances. Most people in a position of power like that in a competative environment will be vastly tempted to tip the scale in thier favor.
Discuss, please avoid flaming. all VALID opinions welcome.
See, its like mad libs, it makes just as much sense! Tomorrow, we can use "Sparta Alliance" or "Kleptomaniacs"!
(P.S. Subscription numbers are rising faster than ever, last I heard)
lol Guess the OP shoulda said "please troll me" so DS could get an invite
"The environment plays a big part but EVE is a "PvP" game." Oveur (Its not a MMORPG after all) |
EliteSlave
Minmatar
Tau Ceti Global Production
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 05:31:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Ftuoil Xelrash
Edited by: Ftuoil Xelrash on 21/06/2007 22:26:55
Edited by: Ftuoil Xelrash on 21/06/2007 22:24:23
CONT:
I have lots of friends who do also.
The game was the most orginal game ever EVER.
I even played EVE BETA, but could not pull away from AC1 becuase of its power!
AC1 could have went MUCH MUCH futher if they just gave a crap about the game a little.
It lacks all the things EVE has by default.
Hell it took the devs over 3 years of telling us no houseing, no secure storage to finaly do it.
No in game trade system
A SCREWED up enonomy. Everyone who is still playing has NO use for currence. It is worthless.
I could hand out money all day long for 6 months and never get rid of it all.
No MAIL or message system.
I could just go on for days and days on how much better Eve is then AC 
Oh Ftuoil how I love you....
Blood / AoW FTW
Dev's if your Ugly and you know it.. and Proud of it... Sign Below ;) |
Darth Moo
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 07:38:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Cadeus
I personally miss the days of MOO, at least it gave the devs something to do and play the game to stop them :)
But then again to me it seemed MOO at launch of EvE almost brought down the game by killing everyone in sight, and im sure discouraging people from playing anymore.
Moo ftw
|
Galan Amarias
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 08:03:00 -
[140]
Sleepy as hell and sorry if this point was made already but...
EVE was recently mentioned in the NY frigging Times! If only 1% of the people who read that go for a free trial that's at least (based on pop of NY) 140,000 new trials.
Besides your friends sound like nancies. *Oh so whinie voice* "I read something negative about a game on forums. I refuse to even try it, FOR FREE, even though one of my friends told me it was cool. I believe random internet chat more than people I actually know."
Better off w/o em.
-Galan
|
Peter Powers
Master Miners
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 08:52:00 -
[141]
Kirell,
Stop *****ing about Eve/CCP - if you dont like it, get lost, if you do like it - play.
I cant read that "CCP ruined the game by playing themselves" bull**** anymore.
It are posts like yours or the ones by the Goons which have the effects your describing - not the developers playing their own game.
|
Xtro 2
Caldari
Pre-nerfed Tactics
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 08:56:00 -
[142]
i stopped reading when you said "EVE online and AC have alot in common"
no, im afraid they do not have anything in common whatsoever, they are completly and utterly different.
Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman.
Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder. |
Peter Powers
Master Miners
Aftermath Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 08:59:00 -
[143]
Originally by: AegriSomnia
To the OP:
I hope you at least took the time to explain to your friends that despite what they have read online about EVE, the entire affair that came out HAS ABSOLUTLEY NO BEARING WHAT SO EVER on 90% of the community. RAGoon/BoB/<insert your alliance name here> and their politics will be so frigging far removed from what you are going to be involved with in the first 2-3 months of playing, its not even worth thinking about. I hope you didnt turn into a wet noodle when they said that and didnt try to defend the game. The GAME is fantastic. CCP as a whole is pretty alright, as well. I think that everyone is really ready to move on from this whole thing.
To the rest of you:
You all talk about how sick of this you are, but then cant help yourself from posting the same old crap on yet another whodunnit thread. This is bordering on obsessive compulsive behavior. Stop it.
Wow, serious, non-insulting words of a goon that actually make sense! Thanks! :-)
|
Pelf Matagraph
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 10:29:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Cadeus
I personally miss the days of MOO, at least it gave the devs something to do and play the game to stop them :)
But then again to me it seemed MOO at launch of EvE almost brought down the game by killing everyone in sight, and im sure discouraging people from playing anymore.
You come very close to a point that has been rolling around my head this morning.
The old m00 days:
There's always going to be some uber corp/alliance smacking away in low sec. But the truth is these uber-tard squads come and go. No matter how big they are there is lots of room at the margins for normal players, corps, and alliances to grow (and indeed prosper).
The "big bad uber cheese pirate alliances of the week" will come and go.
I miss m00's entertainment value though, because as smacktards, their bravado and overall attitude was so full of "EVE Love".
|
FarScape III
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 10:49:00 -
[145]
1st AC sucked hard. It was never good, it had low numbers cuz it was so bad, not because it was made more for adults.
Your friends are worried about corruption in a GAME! They never even play.
If someone told me the devs are corrupt in EQII I would of still played, asking them and what would happen, are they going to change my purple hat to orenge when i'm not looking running around snickering?
Ahhh everyone is corrupt! Meh Shut it.
A Minmater City... Cool!
My Skills |
E Vile
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 11:34:00 -
[146]
"Depending on the severity it's grounds for instant termination of their contract/job. What boundaries do you expect? Execution?"
YES! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!
"The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Shohadaku New York Metal
|
E Vile
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 11:38:00 -
[147]
"Your friends are worried about corruption in a GAME! They never even play?"
If I heard that before I played EVE, I must say I most likely would have never tried it. I had a bad experience with Star Wars Galaxies, and I like many are very leary about news like that.
It is VERY important to trust the people running the MMO you plan on putting your time into for the long term. I don't think companies realize how important this is.
"The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Shohadaku New York Metal
|
d1v1n1ty
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 11:47:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Snake Jankins
Originally by: Kirell
I also take into account that not so long ago, peak periods of EVE had reached well over 30,000 and now, these last couple of weeks I check peak times and I see it dropping at steady rate. I also see alot of forums where people are quitting eve due to "Lack of trust in CCP"
Yesterday we had over 30.000 and it's summertime for the northern hemisphere, where most subscribers live.
I like this statement about the northern hemisphere....most of the world's land mass is in the northern hemisphere. All the same though - you're right about the summer...usually everyone is outside in the heat, not playing games.
kewl.
|
Mysdora
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 11:49:00 -
[149]
So EVE is doomed because some morons who can't tell the difference between facts and internet rumors won't start playing the game? Oh noes, what a tragedy.
|
prsr
Gallente
JuBa Corp
Vigilance Infinitas
|
Posted - 2007.06.22 11:57:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Hamfast
I know real life is not supposed to be used in these threads, but I have a Real Life example...
Your real life example is riddled with fallacies. Stop watching fox "news" is all i can say. It's like you are on Cheney and Rove's personal fax list ffs.
Originally by: Hamfast
Had Bob Come forward with the aforementioned BPO's (and any others the conspiracy types think exist) and said to CCP (Publicly) "These BPO's were provided to us under questionable circumstances", I would have less problems believing that nobody knew.
Since when is a vet that leaves your corp and donates his bpo's to the people he has spend so much time with a questionable circumstance?
When people recreated the "scandal" at the beginning of this year they demanded actions on the bpo's while Bob didn't get any official confirmation on the story that was put forth. Would you hand out your t2 bpo's just because some people are dramabombing the forum with accusations you can't verify?
--
.sig apathy ftw |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |