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Have Eve changed for the better? For some yes, for others, well?

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Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.22 22:59:00 - [1] The Eve community is known to play the most advanced pvp game available today.. PVP is the most attracting thing with Eve and has caught the attention of thousands of people who wanted more than just the chop chop die dwarf pvp of Warcraft and other wannabe online games.. The game is about tactics just as much as it is about skills.. This was the game where 4mill skillpoints could beat 15mill skillpoints if the pilot had his head put on the right way that day.. NOW LETS GO 1-2 YEARS BACK! I loved to log in cause unlike most other online games i didn`t have to depend on other people to enjoy it.. I could jump into my ship, undock and fly into the deep space looking for targets.. The joy of entering belt just as the target warps out..Belt VII-3, he warped to belt VII-3.. I hit the mouse as hard as i could while thinking warp dammmmit warp!!!! Bah wrong belt..And i had ALL those 2 belts to choose from..The scanner pops up, does he have a safespot? AHA, he doesn`t..He is at planet V. Scanned him down and killed him..Sometimes.. We had legends to look up too..Names that made your pants walk to the kitchen and get you a beer to calm you down.. You could go into a fight with the scanner open..360 scan..No one around lets kill this guy fast and warp out before backup arrives.. Fleet fights where the biggest ship was a battleship.. You could fight for hours in the greatest lag you have ever experienced and your body would be in the same condition as after seeing 3 hooters ladies bounce their pyramids for you in 3 seconds.. That was the days when you couldn`t sleep cause you had to think out a great Thorax setup for tommorow.. Unfortunately things have changed..Some for the better like player owned structures, tech2 ships and great graphics.. But also lots have gone completely wrong.. If we go back up to me thinking of Eve 1-2 years ago..The scanner that was your own toolcase which you learned to master to get more kills.. Now it is useless.. You go into a fight..3 in local..Dominix vs Dominix..360 scan, no one around..Ok i`ll engage.. Wtf, that Domi pwns hard.. You look at your killmail and see that what was a 30 second fight was a Domi vs Domi and carrier.. You jump into a system, start scanning and first belt you see a Raven.. Click the mouse as hard as you can and the adrenaline starts pumping.. You scan the belt 40 times in the 20 seconds it takes to arrive.. After 15 seconds the Raven is gone..360 scan: gone.. All that`s left of him is his drones..He is either cloaked in belt or warped off and cloaked.. You go and get your guys and move into 0.0 with 25 bs looking for a fleet fight.. A: everyone gets popped by a DD B: It becomes 25 vs 25 fight..BS vs capitals C: No one wants to fight you cause their 40 bs lack enough jamming and capital backup.. What is Eve turning into? For those who enjoy team work and lots of isk grinding it is a awesome game like no other.. But for the old school that learned to play the game the hard way it`s getting a bit Zzzzzzzzzz.. Going out solo was an option with the brilliant Privateer Alliance but carebears won that fight too.. When it comes to myself i am loosing.. After 3 years the carebear has caught up with me.. He got more power when it comes to changes in the game.. He can instakill my BS with 3 years of pvp experience behind it by getting a mothership with a brilliant tech1/officer fitting.. What can i say to end this post: It`s like real life..The rich and insecure get more benefits and it is a shame.. Now stop whining Ug..and start making isk http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Ugluuk
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:03:00 - [2] Edited by: Necronomicon on 22/06/2007 23:04:16 1st on an eye killing post? EDIT - With that out of the way, I managed to read it before my eyes melted and agree, the game has changed a helluva lot in the direction of the epeen. Only way to ensure solid oldskool fights is to pick a foe with similar assets (which is getting harder to tell these days) Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:08:00 - [3] Quote: Now stop whining Ug Said it yourself
clagnuts Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:19:00 - [4] totaly agree dude ,
LeMoose The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:22:00 - [5] like written from the deepest part of my heart
Psrina Dorsai	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:31:00 - [6] Since you dont like eve anymore, and Im new , Can I have your stuff ! Crybaby
Raoul Endymion Gallente x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:33:00 - [7] Ugluuk, you're spot on mate, and i agree 100%... Eve has changed for the worse in my opinion, and if id had to choose between now or 2 years ago, id go with the past since there was no capitals, no dictors and pos warfare didn't exist (beside in some delusional dev's head) On the other hand, why do i still play ? well, its still fun at some level since i still get to shoot people now and then, nice corp mates to fool around with and the usual forum drama.. theres most likely better games out there to wast your sparetime with, but im used to eve and how stuff works, so im gonna stick around for some time.. x13 Website ~ x13 Killboard ~ x13 Recruitment
Gragnor Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:35:00 - [8] The destruction of the battleship as the core of any fleet will be the end of this game. Try camping now and someone jumps in with the same number of ships; invariably one of them cyno's in a carrier or two. Can they do something about it; yes. will they - no. Because CCP do not want to hold onto the old players; they want the newer ones more. Battleships need the nerfs to damage and range undone; it was all they had to fight against these changes and it was stripped away without much thought.
SwindonBadger 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:49:00 - [9] Edited by: SwindonBadger on 22/06/2007 23:59:06 its still out there. the fun ur looking for long time ago It was bullsy to take a loan bs around but still very powerfull. who was it from the russians, hellspawn and ... crusher.. yer those guys rocked they fit stabs ect but they would fight way outnumbered and just the 2 of tem roaming in fix space. I recon they would be able to do the stuff they did then now if they wanted to but just differnet ships. If ur going solo take a curse or nice recon and a dictor. All u need, hell for me just a sabre and bubles v the world. A roaming bs can still do it but ull need more wits with enemy recons and dictors about. Getting a fiar fight... thats very hard to find but ull be suprised when u meet the right folks what fun can be had. There is alot of folk that only wat ratio, or gank smacks but there are also alot who like decent pew pew. the people that become the strongest fighters will do it from getting uneven fights not in there favour, this doesn not always meen numbers... but ships v ships and skills. what u want to aviode at all costs are big war zones, people there are fighting for homes. U go poke the bea hive and u see how many come out if they have been feeling under threat. it aint easy but its very possable , have had good fights with lots of people including the late D2. If u go in big numbers exspcet a big welcome. Go to close to a hive exspcet a swarm. Play it cool and ull do fine. eddit poss capitol home defending stuff is eppic in world space but not too fun, small skirmish with bs tackle and a hand full of carriers each side priceless in gaming exsperiance. ( and im a small fast ship lover) recent fights with kia iac and co where very very enjoyable and I bet all invloved got their moeneys worth (some lag but not too bad since it wasnt poss and territory stuff). they add a very nice dynamic in small gangs that lift ur gaming exsperiance to a new and deeper level. Mothers rock but yer titans.. dont add better game play in a fight... looks nice though but gah.. it neeeds to be a one volly carrier gun! that would rock for fun and make them very powerfull when they are needed for poss defence v the ships that can kill a poss.. all I know is Ive had more fun this last few years since I started. U just might need to change ur ships and locals.
Agent2 Holtze Amarr x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:50:00 - [10] Edited by: Agent2 Holtze on 22/06/2007 23:50:04 I miss the old days. Eve have become a chat program for me. And i'm 100% agreeing with you ugluuk. Posting and you!

Hellraiza666 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:52:00 - [11] i agree Originally by: CYVOK ...Very Disappointed, I spent 2 years building a pile of ****. -CYVOK-
The Anointed Caldari KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.06.22 23:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Agent2 Holtze I miss the old days. Eve have become a chat program for me. Quote: I say the same thing, although the mind has a bigger capacity for remembering good things from the past than bad. My enjoyment relies on the community I play with, or at least it used to.
Martin Mckenna D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:08:00 - [13] thats the most **** ive ever heard in my life. in and around venal these days there are great fights. i realy dont know what you guys all complain about.
laotse Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:14:00 - [14] eve did die some time ago, all this cap **** didnt help. atm it is just a mather of time before 1000 people log in to see a great game fall down and never to stand up again http://80.126.192.128:8888/tfd/uploads/1121735338/gallery_11_8_1124480365.jpg Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes
Felony Assualt Nubs. D-L	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Ugluuk The Eve community is known to play the most advanced pvp game available today.. PVP is the most attracting thing with Eve and has caught the attention of thousands of people who wanted more than just the chop chop die dwarf pvp of Warcraft and other wannabe online games.. The game is about tactics just as much as it is about skills.. This was the game where 4mill skillpoints could beat 15mill skillpoints if the pilot had his head put on the right way that day.. NOW LETS GO 1-2 YEARS BACK! I loved to log in cause unlike most other online games i didn`t have to depend on other people to enjoy it.. I could jump into my ship, undock and fly into the deep space looking for targets.. The joy of entering belt just as the target warps out..Belt VII-3, he warped to belt VII-3.. I hit the mouse as hard as i could while thinking warp dammmmit warp!!!! Bah wrong belt..And i had ALL those 2 belts to choose from..The scanner pops up, does he have a safespot? AHA, he doesn`t..He is at planet V. Scanned him down and killed him..Sometimes.. We had legends to look up too..Names that made your pants walk to the kitchen and get you a beer to calm you down.. You could go into a fight with the scanner open..360 scan..No one around lets kill this guy fast and warp out before backup arrives.. Fleet fights where the biggest ship was a battleship.. You could fight for hours in the greatest lag you have ever experienced and your body would be in the same condition as after seeing 3 hooters ladies bounce their pyramids for you in 3 seconds.. That was the days when you couldn`t sleep cause you had to think out a great Thorax setup for tommorow.. Unfortunately things have changed..Some for the better like player owned structures, tech2 ships and great graphics.. But also lots have gone completely wrong.. If we go back up to me thinking of Eve 1-2 years ago..The scanner that was your own toolcase which you learned to master to get more kills.. Now it is useless.. You go into a fight..3 in local..Dominix vs Dominix..360 scan, no one around..Ok i`ll engage.. Wtf, that Domi pwns hard.. You look at your killmail and see that what was a 30 second fight was a Domi vs Domi and carrier.. You jump into a system, start scanning and first belt you see a Raven.. Click the mouse as hard as you can and the adrenaline starts pumping.. You scan the belt 40 times in the 20 seconds it takes to arrive.. After 15 seconds the Raven is gone..360 scan: gone.. All that`s left of him is his drones..He is either cloaked in belt or warped off and cloaked.. You go and get your guys and move into 0.0 with 25 bs looking for a fleet fight.. A: everyone gets popped by a DD B: It becomes 25 vs 25 fight..BS vs capitals C: No one wants to fight you cause their 40 bs lack enough jamming and capital backup.. What is Eve turning into? For those who enjoy team work and lots of isk grinding it is a awesome game like no other.. But for the old school that learned to play the game the hard way it`s getting a bit Zzzzzzzzzz.. Going out solo was an option with the brilliant Privateer Alliance but carebears won that fight too.. When it comes to myself i am loosing.. After 3 years the carebear has caught up with me.. He got more power when it comes to changes in the game.. He can instakill my BS with 3 years of pvp experience behind it by getting a mothership with a brilliant tech1/officer fitting.. What can i say to end this post: It`s like real life..The rich and insecure get more benefits and it is a shame.. Now stop whining Ug..and start making isk Wow. Eve couldn't be summed up any better. The only problem is it now is boring as ****. The only kills are ganks big fun there or a suicide mission where you end up with more kills than losses agaisnt a overwhelmingly force. Eve needs to go back to the basics.
SwindonBadger 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:24:00 - [16] "That was the days when you couldn`t sleep cause you had to think out a great Thorax setup for tommorow.." that was my birth right to fix, the rax! this was the 2 mwd 10 heavy drone v enemy 2 mwd rupture days I lost sleep alot of sleep over that ship, todays its a sabre and how I think the enemys sabres are fitted. new ships same rush. ps just had my first RL eve meet with the 0B folks in london, ull be happy to know scops is trying to aviode the local blues in a stolen boat on the river themes, we hope he returns safly after his early morning pirating but we are not holding our breath * hick * I do miss quite a bit of stuff but I just think DD is the only real gameplay killer. The rest is down to u me and evreyone else and what u bring to a fight.
PC5 ClanKillers	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:25:00 - [17] Edited by: PC5 on 23/06/2007 00:28:55 Agreed. I still have those old time videos of beautiful long fleet fights without capitals. That was something i wanted to experience but what i found out after changes in games? Capital blobs, titan warfare (f***** DDD), lag, quick fights, long POS hugging waiting for fight, quick death after x hours of waiting. Yes, there are some good changes of course but... One question remains : "How did it come to this?" Sometimes im wondering why im playing this game, sitting and waiting so many hours for action, its so damn boring! Other games have tons of fun but thats EVE were playing. Lets hope changes will be always for better.
Kurst I Simtech Productions Peons of Doom	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:29:00 - [18] Well, nice to hear that some guys would like to go back to the roots. My char was born last year in september, so "noob" looks quite adequate. However, u guys played that game for some years and whine about the lost old-school pew pew. But please take the time to understand the "noob" side of the game. I would have started playing in 2003, but unfortunately noone told me about this game. So when I go out to shoot some stuff tonight, I'll probably meet some guys who got way more SP than I do...perhaps I die, but thats not the point. U guys play this game long enough and have so many skill points (and isk...well, if u don't have the isk, u made a mistake) that all of u should be able to gate-camp in a nyx like Ign0ramus does. I think I get ur point, but please be reasonable and try to understand the noob's point: I've been in many fights, and in most cases, this game is not about skills, but about skill points. There is no way to catch up for a noob, no matter how much effort he puts in it. I have no idea how often I have been killed so far, but in many cases, I didn't die because a lack of the skills, but because of lack of skillpoints and isk. If u think that anybody should feel with u, please go and play WOW, cause for us noobs, it's way harder than u probably can imagine. Greets, Kurst I
Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:30:00 - [19] Originally by: SwindonBadger ps just had my first RL eve meet with the 0B folks in london, ull be happy to know scops is trying to aviode the local blues in a stolen boat on the river themes, we hope he returns safly after his early morning pirating but we are not holding our breath * hick * Hehe..Tell sc0rps to take a few beer for me and watch out so he doesn`t drown.. I need him to bug me every now and then..:) http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Ugluuk
Zerodragoon Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:31:00 - [20] Personally I think this train could should roll back to castor, or hell exodus + the first bug fix patch, hell ANYTHING before the POS giving sovereignty patch and cold war since then the games gone down hill. Bring back BS fun and no more laggy POS sovereignty (the brand new "territorial control" stuff is really a step in the wrong direction) fights, and the days when titans were supposed to be completely NON-COMBAT SHIPS. All thats sucked the fun out of eve, along with the performance and playability. -------

Plaetean Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:32:00 - [21] It's a sorry state, but I agree totally. People are so much more obsessed with winning eve, winning space, fights, making sure they don't mess up on their killboards or make their alliance efficieny drop etc that the fun in the game completely disappeares. Solo flying is near impossible, and capitals + super capitals are being built all over the place; their numbers will only rise and rise over the coming months too. Imagine what the game will be like in another 6 months, how many titans and motherships there will be, how ridiculously big the blobs will become, how you'll have to wait for a 10 man gang to form up just to roam around low sec. Then again I won't be playing then anyway. -----
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:37:00 - [22] Originally by: Ugluuk The Eve community is known to play the most advanced pvp game available today.. PVP is the most attracting thing with Eve and has caught the attention of thousands of people who wanted more than just the chop chop die dwarf pvp of Warcraft and other wannabe online games.. The game is about tactics just as much as it is about skills.. This was the game where 4mill skillpoints could beat 15mill skillpoints if the pilot had his head put on the right way that day.. NOW LETS GO 1-2 YEARS BACK! I loved to log in cause unlike most other online games i didn`t have to depend on other people to enjoy it.. I could jump into my ship, undock and fly into the deep space looking for targets.. The joy of entering belt just as the target warps out..Belt VII-3, he warped to belt VII-3.. I hit the mouse as hard as i could while thinking warp dammmmit warp!!!! Bah wrong belt..And i had ALL those 2 belts to choose from..The scanner pops up, does he have a safespot? AHA, he doesn`t..He is at planet V. Scanned him down and killed him..Sometimes.. We had legends to look up too..Names that made your pants walk to the kitchen and get you a beer to calm you down.. You could go into a fight with the scanner open..360 scan..No one around lets kill this guy fast and warp out before backup arrives.. Fleet fights where the biggest ship was a battleship.. You could fight for hours in the greatest lag you have ever experienced and your body would be in the same condition as after seeing 3 hooters ladies bounce their pyramids for you in 3 seconds.. That was the days when you couldn`t sleep cause you had to think out a great Thorax setup for tommorow.. Unfortunately things have changed..Some for the better like player owned structures, tech2 ships and great graphics.. But also lots have gone completely wrong.. If we go back up to me thinking of Eve 1-2 years ago..The scanner that was your own toolcase which you learned to master to get more kills.. Now it is useless.. You go into a fight..3 in local..Dominix vs Dominix..360 scan, no one around..Ok i`ll engage.. Wtf, that Domi pwns hard.. You look at your killmail and see that what was a 30 second fight was a Domi vs Domi and carrier.. You jump into a system, start scanning and first belt you see a Raven.. Click the mouse as hard as you can and the adrenaline starts pumping.. You scan the belt 40 times in the 20 seconds it takes to arrive.. After 15 seconds the Raven is gone..360 scan: gone.. All that`s left of him is his drones..He is either cloaked in belt or warped off and cloaked.. You go and get your guys and move into 0.0 with 25 bs looking for a fleet fight.. A: everyone gets popped by a DD B: It becomes 25 vs 25 fight..BS vs capitals C: No one wants to fight you cause their 40 bs lack enough jamming and capital backup.. What is Eve turning into? For those who enjoy team work and lots of isk grinding it is a awesome game like no other.. But for the old school that learned to play the game the hard way it`s getting a bit Zzzzzzzzzz.. Going out solo was an option with the brilliant Privateer Alliance but carebears won that fight too.. When it comes to myself i am loosing.. After 3 years the carebear has caught up with me.. He got more power when it comes to changes in the game.. He can instakill my BS with 3 years of pvp experience behind it by getting a mothership with a brilliant tech1/officer fitting.. What can i say to end this post: It`s like real life..The rich and insecure get more benefits and it is a shame.. Now stop whining Ug..and start making isk /singed Agree completly. Pwnage PvP Recruitment \m/ Metal Head \m/
Gunship Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 00:42:00 - [23] I don't think the Capitals did the Pvper any favor. The fact you need fuel to jump! wtf! It did CCP a lot of favors, ermm how many cyno alts do you have and how many extra accounts did you need to get? Nice way of bleeding the players for more cash if you ask me. Is captial combat more fun? not really just require a lot more NPC'ing to get a new ship. Did they make capital combat lag free and more fun? <-- forgive me, I have sinnd and put a question mark. Eve actualy looks worse now, has not really moved on with graphics and stuff. I think playing C&C3 made me think of that. Give me back the days before the T2 lotteri and POS warfare and just fix the bugs. Best thing CCP did - added 25/50% to ammor so you lasted a little longer in combat. We now have had the T2 lotteri that made the carebears rich beyound the needs to have pvper and we have pos warfare thats a pain in the ar.. and keep you up at all hours because of a strongt timer Do I like eve, yes so you do get my stuff, just yet. has it been more fun than since 2-3 years ago, actualy no. Is it still the best MMORbla bla out there. Ohh yes. Room for improvement... I think so. So you want to join us?
Stormhold Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:03:00 - [24] Edited by: Stormhold on 23/06/2007 01:04:39 Edited by: Stormhold on 23/06/2007 01:03:38 I didn't play "2-3 years ago" since my character is a bit under 2 years old, but I have to say EVE has became a more boring place. A part of it is just golden nostalgia and the feel of a new game, but part of it is just like described. There's 4 capital ships in my last lossmail, and that was us being in a gang of 8. No real problem except that this suiciding is emptying my wallet and forcing me to kill npcs soon, damnit. EVE's still the best since all other game develops seem to be more or less wimps who only want total carebearism and that's the sole reason I still am paying for my accounts.
EzSnake Caldari The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:09:00 - [25] I agree 100%!!!!!!! This game has gone to the cowards, the days of solo are rare, everyone plays bait games w/ their buddies in the winds hiding Mainly just see high SP bad arse ships going for solo miner/hauler/ratter ganks (which have never been hard). Fair fights are over, as everyone is too afraid to lose their 100-300M ships, it took them all week to get isk for... not really their fault, no one wants to lose that much isk ship, it's CCP's fault!! Player driven market prices seems all good, but this is the result in that...overpriced ships = less ppl willing to lose it (**** insurance on t2 ships doesn't help). Personally I think something like a lock limit of ships that can target another ship(2 (maybe more for caps)) should be applied. That will insta-pop this insta-popped ships by 30 frakin ships on 1 crap!!! I think that will help TONS with this game providing some solidly fun PVP! ________________________________________________ Next MMO
Dalanoria Dirt Nap Squad FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:11:00 - [26] Isnt EO doing better then it ever has ? I dont remember 33k people online on a friday before the last 6 mo.....
Dalanoria Dirt Nap Squad FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:13:00 - [27] Originally by: EzSnake I agree 100%!!!!!!! This game has gone to the cowards, the days of solo are rare, everyone plays bait games w/ their buddies in the winds hiding Mainly just see high SP bad arse ships going for solo miner/hauler/ratter ganks (which have never been hard). Fair fights are over, as everyone is too afraid to lose their 100-300M ships, it took them all week to get isk for... not really their fault, no one wants to lose that much isk ship, it's CCP's fault!! Player driven market prices seems all good, but this is the result in that...overpriced ships = less ppl willing to lose it (**** insurance on t2 ships doesn't help). Personally I think something like a lock limit of ships that can target another ship(2 (maybe more for caps)) should be applied. That will insta-pop this insta-popped ships by 30 frakin ships on 1 crap!!! I think that will help TONS with this game providing some solidly fun PVP! It took me 3 months while I trained recons to get enough isk to properly fit a Curse and Pilgrim. They both died within days of fitting them trying to solo. You guys invented the gate camp, I didnt...
Gitt Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:17:00 - [28] After 4 years in game you get used to the changes! and this is still the best game around!
Mr Vrix Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:18:00 - [29] I think it was you ugluuk that came wandering through geminate the other night? Got to say, chasing you around back and forth was the best fun I personally had all night, thats despite having a few kills in gate camps, trapping a few people, and the fact you actually got away Very nice flying btw. Like it used to be so to speak, no "bubble up" as your cloaked ship spots a shuttle about to jump on the other gate,just chasing for the giggles. I have to agree with you. Started the game in 2003, took a break of 5 months or so, when I came back POS stuff had just started, and cap ships where rolling out. Changes to the way you HAVE to play if you want to have any 0.0 property strangles me...the recent change to resources outside outposts I think has put the final nail in it for me in regards the sov thing. Not going to discuss why, it just has things that do not sit right. As has been mentioned though, there are a lot of people out there still finding ways to have a lot of fun, without the huge cap fleets,stations,everthing else,so hope for us yet!
Ravelin Eb Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:32:00 - [30] I do agree with some points you have made, enough so that if offered to say, transfer my char to a server running eve as of 2 years ago, i wouldnt hesitate to say yes.

Kvarium Ki legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:45:00 - [31] I agree 100%. Sovereignty and Cap ships have not had a positive effect on the game. POSs aren't bad but they should only be for moon mining and production, that's it. KK.
Dungar Loghoth Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:45:00 - [32] I don't really agree with you, Ugluuk. Instead of "soloing" all you really need to do is take a covops one jump ahead of you. You won't get ganked, unexpectedly jump into a large bubble, and you can scan down the people that try and log on you (you'd be amazed how many will log with a single covops shooting at them). It's not quite what it was once was, but it's still perfectly viable. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes. Also, don't troll by using another alliance's logo. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Sidrat Flush Caldari Wolf Pack Enterprises E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:54:00 - [33] Been playing for a while, only got into pvp in the last year, not seriously, not full time. I'm still a production character but you can only research so many bpo's and set production orders before it gets a bit tedious. Really wish I had experienced the "old fashioned" pvp of yesteryear before the gatecamping and dictors. Ganking miners has always happened in low sec 0.0 so that's not really new, bringing in a cap fleet to do it is probably NOT a cost effective way, but far be it for me to tell how other people should enjoy the game. What could happen is along the lines of Privateers, but without the alliance. A group of corps sign into an agreement to pay for the war decs on the rest of the "League" table. Probably will be expensive with the war dec repricing but as there's limited 0.0 to choose from these days it's possibly the easiest way for people who want to log in and have pvp fun to do just that. Sure the corps will have to fund themselves and eventually cough up the war dec fee during their "Week", but it sounds like fun and a way to get the "old" days back. Life is about memories the more the better. End Slavery.
Jae Nefarious Endgame.	Posted - 2007.06.23 01:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Agent2 Holtze Edited by: Agent2 Holtze on 22/06/2007 23:50:04 I miss the old days. Eve have become a chat program for me. And i'm 100% agreeing with you ugluuk. same here, the one good thing about eve that keeps me playing are the old friends i made back in the days that are still around He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. -Luke 22:36
Entilzah Valen 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.23 02:12:00 - [35] I agree. However, this is Oveur's game in the end. If I would have known that EVE would have taken this direction in the end I probably wouldn't have started playing.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.23 02:14:00 - [36] I think I agree with Ugluuk too. EVE has gone from a game where one can have fun solo or in small groups to a game where one is totally useless outside a vast blob. We now have fleets of dreadnoughts larger than the battleship fleets of two years ago. And its only going to get worse. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Divus Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.23 02:31:00 - [37] Edited by: Divus on 23/06/2007 02:33:08 im only playing since 2 years so i lack of the experiance of the game-play u got in the earlyer days - but never the less ugluuk, u sound a bit like my grandma -------------------------------------------------
MehTheTrader University of Caille	Posted - 2007.06.23 03:37:00 - [38] Edited by: MehTheTrader on 23/06/2007 03:36:10 Take away local in 0.0. PHEAR ME!!
Arrgs Retribution Corp.	Posted - 2007.06.23 03:57:00 - [39] No, take me back to cycle jamming and 8 heat sink geddon days. My first video! Signature removed - lacks EVE-Online related content - Please email us if you have a question (and include the URL) - Jacques([email protected])
Vulor Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.23 12:04:00 - [40] I'm not some old guy with quadrillion SP like the OP, but I've been around for almost two years now and I don't like how this game is changing. I'm still playing this game because there isn't anything better out there, but I'm not enjoying it as much as I used to. -- No sig today!

Dray Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.06.23 12:11:00 - [41] I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Ugluuk is saying but its important to remind yourself that its easy to remember the good and forget the bad, the old days weren't all good, it was easier to get kills back in the day because people weren't as sharp as they are now, hell all I flew was a kestrel and when I first fitted my merlin for pvp I got annoyed because the ammo wouldn't load, turned out that projectile ammo and hybrids don't mix Either way theres a lot more people playing now than ever, logging in to a whopping 4k online was a busy Sunday for most, but Eve has grown and now more than ever new players who can stick with eve, and get up that hideous sheer cliff face that is the learning curve, have plenty of people willing to give advice and help out. This more than ever means that the criminally stupid aren't very common, still enough around to get a laugh but overall players are getting solid advice on how to fly and getting the experience as they go. The point is that maybe without the capitals and POS direction that eve has taken maybe the game would've evolved differently and lost players, we'll never know, but what it has allowed is to give the big alliance players a chance to achieve something tangible and give them something to fight for. I'm not an alliance man, haven't been for some time now, but I can see the appeal for people there, its just not how like to play the game, just like Ugluuk. On the positive side Eve has done things that other games cant replicate, ASCN's outpost, their titan, the ISS outpost program, these things and more are what sets Eve apart, personally I had no part in these events but I appreciate what they were with regards to CCP's vision for their game and are unique standout moments in the continuing evolution of mmorpg's. Ultimately though these aren't the reasons I play the game, as I've said in a different post eve is changing and whether its taking a path I want to tread I can't say but at the moment it looks like it isn't so I'm not to sure I will be playing this time next year hopefully there will be something to keep me playing, I've been around a long time, beta and live, and I've invested a lot of time in the game to just stop and walk away but I feel that the moment I do walk away is closer than I'd like to admit. ..and no you cant have my stuff
balrog UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 12:36:00 - [42] Bring back castor =))) I feel your pain Ugluuk. Reason i stil play is m8`s and the fact i already invested so much in this game.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.23 12:40:00 - [43] Edited by: welsh wizard on 23/06/2007 12:44:23 Again it pretty much all boils down to the isk being practically worthless. A great percentage of pilots are uber rich and piloting capital ships. The risk versus reward factor that made Eve so enjoyable to play is quite diluted in comparison to the game 2 years+ ago as a result. I have another discussion going on a somewhat related subject: Linkage Go ahead and voice your opinion, off to work then!
Scordaf Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 12:45:00 - [44] Quote: NOW LETS GO 1-2 YEARS BACK! Nice post Ugluuk. You didn't even mention once about your mastery of logoffski when things aren't going your way, which CCP also nerfed (but not hard enough). It was a lot easier to logoffski 1-2 years ago, I bet.
Asylum Seaker Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.23 12:53:00 - [45] Solo and small skirmish PVP is fun, and all I really want out of the game. However I find it hard to hate the scale of war in this game, taking territory and capitals and all the logistics and such into account. I don't think anything else comes close in the mmo world. Its awesome. The universe is hostile, so impersonal, devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been.
Harkan Ramientes Aquilae Stellaris Ion Core	Posted - 2007.06.23 12:56:00 - [46] Originally by: Ugluuk The Eve community is known to play the most advanced pvp game available today.. PVP is the most attracting thing with Eve and has caught the attention of thousands of people who wanted more than just the chop chop die dwarf pvp of Warcraft and other wannabe online games.. The game is about tactics just as much as it is about skills.. This was the game where 4mill skillpoints could beat 15mill skillpoints if the pilot had his head put on the right way that day../cut/ signed, completely
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.23 13:09:00 - [47] 0.0 pvp / roaming / soloing is pretty much dead, you still have the 3 man elite groups from time to time running arround, but appart from that its dead. so, i say eve did not change for the better for me, hell even when i was still a carebear i liked stradivarious, 0virtu0 and degrand etc running in their vaga arround scaring/killing me. not because i admired em, but because they kept me awake, and i needed "skills" to avoid em. however ugluuk, i ask you. you have been in privateers; was empire pvp better? i am currently a lowsec pirate, and even though the pvp here is not uberwtfpwn either, it comes close to how 0.0 was 2 years ago, except for decent rewards. its mainly ganking the carebears, but if you get a fight its usually a good one. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.06.23 13:12:00 - [48] Edited by: Soulita on 23/06/2007 13:15:48 I agree with Ugluuk. Cap ships are no good for EVE. Could list a lot of reasons why, like Ugluuk did, but I am just too tired and I see no use. I am not playing much anymore since I doubt CCP will do much about the cap plague. And there is a lot of other things that killed a lot of my fun playing EVE... I guess I will wait and see how it goes.
MortyM Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.23 13:23:00 - [49] Can I have your stuff ? ^^ As for me, I'm have exactly as much fun ingame as I had 2, 3 or even 4 years ago, probably even more.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.06.23 13:23:00 - [50] Edited by: Soulita on 23/06/2007 13:27:02 nvm, good to see someone is having fun.

SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.23 13:43:00 - [51] Originally by: MortyM As for me, I'm have exactly as much fun ingame as I had 2, 3 or even 4 years ago, probably even more. you are in blob need i say more and ug your 100% right I demand an exodus roll back & ban all those new folk they all suck anyway snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
ArmyOfMe Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.23 13:54:00 - [52] /signed I miss the days when solo and small gang pvp was possible without being jumped by carriers all the damn time
IonHammer Minmatar Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.06.23 14:12:00 - [53] still think the worst day in my eve life was when we lost cruise missiles on rifters, kessies and crows. And lost one of the best low cost combo's out there the BB and caracal. No jam jam no torp torp. If thats your real life i'm very jealous - Petwraith
Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.23 14:19:00 - [54] Originally by: Scordaf Quote: NOW LETS GO 1-2 YEARS BACK! Nice post Ugluuk. You didn't even mention once about your mastery of logoffski when things aren't going your way, which CCP also nerfed (but not hard enough). It was a lot easier to logoffski 1-2 years ago, I bet. Here we got an example of what Eve is nowadays.. Hydra is a bunch of pvp beginners who would not survive without capital ships.. They are good to form up gangs fast and always show up with 3-10 times our number and deserve respect for showing up.. But when found alone they tend to use dirty tricks like logging their drakes in combat when a small ship catches them.. They cloak and log off if they jump into a camp.. We dont care and live with it.. We respect them for what they are good at and dont harras them for what some of their members do.. But i have to live with comments like this from Scordaf and Hydra in every post i make or kill i get I have had 3 episodes with Hydra that resulted in them coming in to my posts like this.. 1.An Astarte sat outside 4-4 in Jita..i took my brutix, undocked and attacked him..I died and later the day i got taunted in local as a jita camping noob while they sat at pos in 0.0.. 2.My no tanked double bcu,gyro tempest attacked a hydra BS infront of sentry guns as they usually have tech1 fittings.. After first volley i crashed.. Logged in to a 15 minute harasment in local about the logoffski tactic i used.. 3.4 of us suiciding in 3 cruisers and Bc vs 30-40 Hydra.. After we killed 4 of them i crashed inside the dictor bubble with what would been our kill number 5 going down.. The Wolf survived in structure and i got lots of mails about being a logoffski chicken without balls.. This is where you see the differences between pvp pilots and carebears.. I crashed in a fight with Omniscient Order and lost my ship but the pod survived.. They had ceptors so when i logged back in to give them what was theirs, the pod kill they said sorry for killing me when it was so obvious that i crashed and also let me keep the pod.. If you meet the old school guys they respect you enough to enjoy the good fight you gave them.. But those who know that isk is more power than skillpoints laugh at you for dying in 4 vs 30 even if the end result was 4-4 in kills.. With capitals we lost the gentlemen way of playing Eve..And i hate it.. http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Ugluuk
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 14:27:00 - [55] The death of the BS as the core of a fleet is the thing I find saddest. The BS should have always been the fleet staple, not Cap ships. I hope CCP see that too, and try and do something about it. Not sure they will though. --------
Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.23 14:36:00 - [56] Originally by: Gutsani however ugluuk, i ask you. you have been in privateers; was empire pvp better? PVP in empire was like going 2 years back.. I loved it so much i sometimes played from i came home from work and until i began at work the next day.. Nothing bigger to fight than tier 3 bs No yellow dot on the map showing where your camp was No crying for help to napped alliances to help out The suprise moment when you jump in and see a red dot in local.. It took the carebears 4 months to close down the Privateers.. Lets see how long it takes pvp`ers to get CCP to change the cloaks so carebears cant cloak their battleships once a hostile jumps in.. http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Ugluuk
Gutsani Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.06.23 14:39:00 - [57] Originally by: Ugluuk Lets see how long it takes pvp`ers to get CCP to change the cloaks so carebears cant cloak their battleships once a hostile jumps in.. i dont think that the (only) problem tbh, but the problem itselve is difficult to describe. ------------------------ Stop reading my siggy!
End Yourself Core Domination Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2007.06.23 14:44:00 - [58] Never seen a thread i would agree with 90% of the posters in CAOD before. Eve has become all about (grinding) ISK. ISK to afford toys that aren't fun to fight in and i don't get why ANYONE would like that fact. --- Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.23 14:55:00 - [59] Edited by: Plutoinum on 23/06/2007 14:56:31 The problem I have with small scale combat is nowadays that you are not only likely to get blobbed or confronted with a bunch of carriers, but also that you can't really change much. It has really no big impact, if you win or lose a non-capital fight here and there. Not really motivating. Roaming around in a gang, ganking, without achieving much, gets old fast. Although it's not as boring as gate camping. So maybe for me, some big capital combat would be more suitable now, because the outcome just matters more, but well, my experience with blobs is currently: 20 carriers, masses of fighters and my PC stands still. Not really fun. Besides that I hate to care about poses that come out of reinforcement. If I need to recharge poses a few days in a row, I feel abused/tortured. It kills my will to live ... in EVE.
Wulfgard Minmatar Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.23 15:06:00 - [60] CPP, read this thread and take note

Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.23 15:26:00 - [61] Ugluuk you need adapt and get yourself carriers. Its quite funny to kill the carebear carriers with your own capital ships, they hate that
Trinity Trixx Caldari Hell's Horsemen Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 15:43:00 - [62] I have to agree with Ug. I am finding it harder and harder to log in any of my three accounts these days. Sadly enough this is the only MMO I've ever played and used to be fond of saying it would be my only one. Now I find myself searching mmorpg.com for something else.... Get onboard with the carrier thing? Why? Because CCP demands it by their actions? What about the old school players that demand that they nerf the carriers to get the game back to some sembelance of what it was before? That's what I thought... -- spiritfa11 rox the sig house!
Araviel Gallente Epic.	Posted - 2007.06.23 15:48:00 - [63] completly agree mate, and as i already told you thats why i moved back to empire. low sec feels a little more like the 0.0 days of 2003-2004 somehow. huge skillgaps and little to much ganks tho, but sentrys and sec penalty still makes things intressting ---------- signature under construction
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 15:55:00 - [64] Ugluuk, come on home mate. The "game enhancment" hurt us but did not kill us. Bring the new friends with you. Hooch, regathering the scattered wolf pack
Talio ZomB	Posted - 2007.06.23 15:58:00 - [65] Totally agree mate. I am one of these ppl that take pride in the hunt and catching a target myself, using the smallest gang possible. pirates used to try make a name for themselves, (kudos to HackG the last pilot to 1v1 me and not call in his mates, extended family and pets to gank me) so long can I go before I see a pilot that is will to do that. I have lost many ravens and its always to overwhelming odds. there is no discouragement to this kind of ganktastic style. CCP once talked of a system where by players were awarded points for kills, more points if the were using smaller ships and lower numbers, so for example the 1v8 scenarios that I run in to so often would would credit those pilots with a handful of points due to the size of their gang. These points could be used in some way to like help in standings or something
Jake Stevens The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:02:00 - [66] Edited by: Jake Stevens on 23/06/2007 16:04:27 edit: unnerf privateers
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:05:00 - [67] I really like the comments here. This is a game of combat, screw all this building stuff and "controlling" areas. Isk is for buying ships, weapons, and other goodies that help you destroy a target. Empire needs to be less safe, hell the thrill of running from an enemy/s can get the heart pumping too as fast as attacking an enemy. That is the whole point of Privateers, I ain't getting rich from it, I got agents for isk making. I love the hunt, and the combat, not seeing how fat the wallet gets.
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Jake Stevens Reopen privateers We are still here!
Dr Smythe Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:21:00 - [69] To the OP, good post but I can't say I don't like the changes that EVE has taken. EVE has evolved over the years. And we must remember that EVE is a commercial business and its main purpose is to attract new paying customers to the world of eve. And if that means a 6 month old noob can fly a ms in with t1 fitting then so beit. Remember if EVE was a game that only the experienced and high SP players could take part in seriously then why would anyone come and play eve. No one likes to lose. The trick is to evolve with the game and enjoy it as it develops
Red Crown Kudzu Collective	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:27:00 - [70] I may not be an old player but I agree with pretty much all you've said. "BLOB! OMG BLOB GET A CYNO BLOBBBBBBBBB" and then, its just "POS SPAM FUEL FUEL POS SPAM OMG DREAD DREAD GET A CYNO UP SO WE CAN CYNO IN DREADS". I can't get small engagements anymore, its just the Blob. A day or two ago a Curse and a Rook were causing problems in an outpost system. I got a gang of 3 - myself, another BS, and an inty. There were more who wanted in but I expressly forbid any more than 3 on the grounds that I didn't want this to be a blob. My cunning plan didn't work, and we beat an orderly retreat. At this point, an alliance FC took over and gathered over 15 pilots and cyno'd in a carrier. When they were finally ready to move, the hostiles had been gone for over half an hour. Keep in mind, this was for 2 recons. And yes, a Chimera was brought in from over 8 lightyears away. This is standard for 0.0 these days... Is this what Eve is coming to? I know I don't like it.

Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:31:00 - [71] Privateers relied in the main on cheap ganks in Empire, the odd sprinking of decent fleet combat was mixed in - just not all the often. It isnt the answer... The simple fact is that the scale of Serious Organised warfare has increased and you need to adapt to it, you were a big fish in the Sea, the pool has grown into a large ocean and because you didn't adapt you arn't such a big fish any more. The majority of posters in this thread have the oppertunity of using maxed out fighting skills with inside knowledge on every long term ship in game. The strengths, the weaknesses and tactics employed. Don't you think it was time to learn a new trade? Most of you probably also know quite a few people who are capital class capable, those that had the foresite to change skill tree's over the last 2 years to adapt to the game ahead. I suggest you contact these people and form your own counter capital gank squads - take the game to a new level tactically and coordinate as a team effort. The Capital replaced the Battleship, the Battleship replaced the Cruiser. And with the recent loss to the Titan the solo gank ship Supercapital class became Vulnerable finally (lets how Moms die as rapidly as well). With that in mind you skillset isn't dead, ok you might not be the prima donna that does the most damage any more, but that does not mean your vast knowledge of tactical sitations earned over the last few years isnt worth something. You might have to play a support role in a battleship now, but hey so what. You might even learn some new tricks. Personally im all the happier to see Teamwork overcome solo eliteism, this is a MMOPG not a solo shoot em up. Player numbers indicate more people are happier. On the other hand Isk is a grind, bigger toys = more grind. If i agree with anything in this thread, its that Isk is a total obstacle to PvP, as such it should be easier to gain - so it is easier to lose. CCP take note of that.
Wylker Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:39:00 - [72] Why is this in CAOD You signature was removed. For questions or comments please mail [email protected] -Scyd ([email protected])
Rusty PwnStar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:41:00 - [73] I tend to agree with the OP. Another example is the POS situation. For months I worked on our POS's, offlining, unanchoring, anchoring, onlining.... rinse and repeat, if you've done it you know. Just as I get them how I want them, they move the goal posts again and tell us all the defensive mods will be outside the pos shields.... Bang goes the months I spent moving the mods, months wasted. I've since retired from POS duties, and now with the GSC nerf, not a moment too soon tbh. This once was a game, it's now a time sink. I love the game still in many ways, but hate it in way to many others.
trouser boy The Eve Pacification Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:42:00 - [74] Originally by: Dr Smythe To the OP, good post but I can't say I don't like the changes that EVE has taken. EVE has evolved over the years. And we must remember that EVE is a commercial business and its main purpose is to attract new paying customers to the world of eve. And if that means a 6 month old noob can fly a ms in with t1 fitting then so beit. Remember if EVE was a game that only the experienced and high SP players could take part in seriously then why would anyone come and play eve. No one likes to lose. The trick is to evolve with the game and enjoy it as it develops I think the point is that you'd be similarily as peturbed as the op if you weren't winning everything. Your opinion is of course valid but it is bias because you don't know what it is to lose. This doesn't make you any less right it just means your opinion doesn't really hold as much weight because everyones thinking "Well they would say that wouldn't they!" I doubt anyone expects a significant percentage of BoB to agree with Ugluuks view. So who is right? Everyone else who has had a hard time in Eve? or yourself who hasn't?
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:55:00 - [75] Originally by: Tassi Ugluuk you need adapt and get yourself carriers. Its quite funny to kill the carebear carriers with your own capital ships, they hate that You need isk to do so, Tassi. We don't play EVE 24/7 like yoo. Anyway like Ug I'm not rich, I like smaller ship combat. Caps require to a certain extent backup. Pwnage PvP Recruitment \m/ Metal Head \m/
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:56:00 - [76] Originally by: Trinity Trixx I have to agree with Ug. I am finding it harder and harder to log in any of my three accounts these days. Sadly enough this is the only MMO I've ever played and used to be fond of saying it would be my only one. Now I find myself searching mmorpg.com for something else.... Get onboard with the carrier thing? Why? Because CCP demands it by their actions? What about the old school players that demand that they nerf the carriers to get the game back to some sembelance of what it was before? That's what I thought... If it's up to me you shouldn't be able to assign fighters to other players. Pwnage PvP Recruitment \m/ Metal Head \m/
gaz widdow Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:57:00 - [77] Sadly: I have to agree with the OP 100%
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.23 16:58:00 - [78] Originally by: Rusty PwnStar This once was a game, it's now a time sink. Unfortunetly. Pwnage PvP Recruitment \m/ Metal Head \m/
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.23 17:29:00 - [79] I don't agree, main problem pvp in eve has is the same as it always has had: metagamers and those too afraid to lose a ship.
Sidrat Flush Caldari Wolf Pack Enterprises E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.06.23 17:40:00 - [80] So what does the OP want in terms of pvp? Instant action, small gang, little to no waiting, just log in, fit a ship call his mates go out and attempt to find, if not fair, then an enjoyable battle? Other people like the gate camping aspect, or the fact they've got cap ships at their beck and call for even a "low level" (two enemy ships should not prevent people from ratting or mining, especially if they actually talk to each other and the ratters can warp to instantly should a miner be attacked. Eve was always a game that relied on building up friends. This has not changed, if anything the need for team work and even more friends to call on has exponentially increased. Life is about memories the more the better. End Slavery.

Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.06.23 17:48:00 - [81] Originally by: Gragnor The destruction of the battleship as the core of any fleet will be the end of this game. Try camping now and someone jumps in with the same number of ships; invariably one of them cyno's in a carrier or two. Can they do something about it; yes. will they - no. Because CCP do not want to hold onto the old players; they want the newer ones more. Battleships need the nerfs to damage and range undone; it was all they had to fight against these changes and it was stripped away without much thought. Yeah cos its all new players flying carriers .....
Dave PSI Haendlergilde S.E.R.A	Posted - 2007.06.23 19:05:00 - [82] Time has simply changed, i can remember when a BS was so expensive like an carrier today (or even more expensive compared to the isk we had, mining in a cruiser with xycel miners I [when you had the 5 mil for them]). A BS was seldom seen and a loss was really hard to compensate. But i would also say that increasing the Capital armor by factor 5 makes them a bit overpowered. To boost them was nevertheless necessary, i could remember that a gang of 20-30 pilots ganked 11 dreads in a row. I think CCP has a focus on that point and like we see at the (after patch) Titan kill (which was for shure was a lot of fun for all involved (except molle perhaps :-) ), they are still balancing. If you always get jumped by carriers, simply bait them and destroy them. If you cant do that alone get a friendly corp for help. And to your point, that you cant make everything alone, hell yes that is what this game is made for : teamwork. Also i cant see the good old times. POS spamming all around (ask atuk if they had much fun before they left the south). No capitals to counter and a large POS costed 50 mil if i remember right?. Every ship fittet with a minimum of 2-4 stabs, completely unbalances BS (gankageddon, Raven the one torp one frig killer, tempests wich doesnt seems to hit anything), no tracking, no explosion radius -> frigs were nearly useless ... If the game changes, you have to adapt, that is what makes eve interesting, if we were still at the level 2 years ago i would have already left. If you can't adapt to the new rules, perhaps your time has gone. i am sorry for that, but thats the way it goes. T R U S T shop: http://www.evetrust.com // Haendlergilde [HAE]
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.23 19:22:00 - [83] The OP has said what I've been trying to say for the last year or so in a far more eloquent and articulate fashion. I support the OP 100%. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.23 19:24:00 - [84] Edited by: Wrayeth on 23/06/2007 19:24:12 Originally by: Red Crown I may not be an old player but I agree with pretty much all you've said. "BLOB! OMG BLOB GET A CYNO BLOBBBBBBBBB" and then, its just "POS SPAM FUEL FUEL POS SPAM OMG DREAD DREAD GET A CYNO UP SO WE CAN CYNO IN DREADS". I can't get small engagements anymore, its just the Blob. A day or two ago a Curse and a Rook were causing problems in an outpost system. I got a gang of 3 - myself, another BS, and an inty. There were more who wanted in but I expressly forbid any more than 3 on the grounds that I didn't want this to be a blob. My cunning plan didn't work, and we beat an orderly retreat. At this point, an alliance FC took over and gathered over 15 pilots and cyno'd in a carrier. When they were finally ready to move, the hostiles had been gone for over half an hour. Keep in mind, this was for 2 recons. And yes, a Chimera was brought in from over 8 lightyears away. This is standard for 0.0 these days... Is this what Eve is coming to? I know I don't like it. So true. I'll just add to my relevant quote collection here: Originally by: Rusty PwnStar This once was a game, it's now a time sink. QFT. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Plim Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.06.23 19:42:00 - [85] I used to love EVE because the pvp was like an adaptation of Sun Tzu's Art of War. It was all about information. The more you knew about the game and about your enemies and the better you used that information the more likely you were to succeed. Sadly with the introduction of covert pvp ships, cyno'ed capitals etc, unkown potential variables are added which make it difficult to make sound tactical judgements. Also the game mechanics seem to change every two damned minutes now, just when you think you have mastered something it gets, nerfed, boosted, made to fly at 8billion kilometres a second for no obvious reason etc. Often it is a game of chance now rather than skill. It used to be that from a resource perspective, everyone was on an equal footing. When BS were the largest ship you could have (and they were just about accesable to everyone) fleet battles were won by competetant fleet commanders. Now they are won (or circumvented) by whoever can afford the most capitals. The game has been going steadily downhill in my opinion. And I used to chastise people for saying that, but now I honestly think it is true. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
HordeZla Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.23 19:58:00 - [86] Originally by: Trinity Trixx What about the old school players that demand that they nerf the carriers to get the game back to some sembelance of what it was before? Just coz its new don't me it go or bad, EVE is not the same as what it used to be because things change. If there was not new content then the old school would be board and playing WoW
Kvarium Ki legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 20:30:00 - [87] It seems that some of the old school players ARE bored but they're still playing because they've invested so much time and effort in this game that they hope CCP will improve things and make it fun again without having to sell 400$ worth of time cards to buy isk. KK.
Dracolich North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.06.23 20:41:00 - [88] I agree with Ugluuk, and most in between him and my post. I think I suggested 6 months ago that CCP made an additional server with an Castor patch installed. Then there would be something for each man. Furthermore the difference between rich and poor just increases for each year. _____________________________________ Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo _____________________________________ Kreul Intentions is my Guardian Angel
Oberkorn x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.23 20:59:00 - [89] I must agree with ugluuk. I miss the old days. Most of the fun I had was in the empire wars we had against The Confederation and FIX (lost count  ) small gang and a lot of soloing. Now its gank or get ganked + billion cyno jumps in on you. _____________________________________ Got nothing to loose let's dance
gordon cain Minmatar x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.23 21:03:00 - [90] the privateers days are over. Nothing to change that and stop bring it up. What we can do is tell the minds behind the game that we think its going in the wrong direction. Plz bring back skirmish warfare to the extend it was 2 years ago. Gordon Cain "Allways remember. Never argue with idiots, they will just drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience"

CHAOS100 Momentum. The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.06.23 21:11:00 - [91] make a new server with exodus patch... --------------
Eamz Endgame.	Posted - 2007.06.23 21:43:00 - [92] I dont think i agree with the op. I came back to the game 6 months ago after an 18month break, so exactly 2 years ago almost. There has been much more small gang pvp since i rejoined, if anything, for me at least, less running into blobs and generally more fun. The introduction of recons and interdictors has led to a much more diverse and interesting pvp environment imo. I genuinely believe this. I also have had quite a lot of solo action too. However, i do agree that POS's and capital ships have had a certain negative effect.
maria stallion Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.23 21:56:00 - [93] I agree with Ugluuk mostly, I think eve becomes more boring with every patch to publish. -solo pvp is nealry impossible -cap ship equals borings hours and hours staring at a hostile or friendly pos. -new station services if eve wasn't boring enough yeah lets add another day of shield transporting to get the services up again... Back in the old days you could go of with a raven mega or what ever you liked and you could kill some **** with a decent setup. now you need a gang to get anything done simply because game mechanics don't allow solo pvp anymore. it's a shame and I hope ccp will try to make the game a bit more intense again and not all pos shooting and repairing... Signature inappropriate. Please refrain from using your signature to allude to Developer favouritism. Mail us at [email protected] if you have any further questions or queries - Valorem
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.23 22:03:00 - [94] Snip* Originally by: gordon cain the privateers days are over. No, they are not over, not yet away. Is it much harder? Yes. But even given that it is still viable. It simply costs more than it did and we have to be selective and focused. We took a big whack, no doubts about that but we will make it back.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.23 22:23:00 - [95] In many ways you are right. And every change that came with Rev 2 is just gonna make it worse. Heat doesn't help at all, too much damage on he mod, taken way too fast to matter most of the times. You can use it either to get final shot, or to break the 38% of a passive shield tank so you overheat the guns at 45% or so. If anything, that 30% to range on webbers is ... idiotic. Huge nerf on Curse, Vagabond, Sleipnir, Claymore, Rupture, Zealot ... most of the solo, skirmish warfare ships right now in the game. It does improve the Dominix/Megathron/Tempest/Tier 2 BC's ... see a pattern here ? Then there is the sov crap. Correct me, but CCP said that "we will bring the small gangs in action again", where is it ? Fact of the matter is : - low-sec pvp is not worth it. You need an alt to do the shoppings - especially if you are 10m SP and more as you go into T2 ships and T2 stuff for the ships, and you get targets only by gate-camping with SB BS's or with a big number of at least Tier 2 BC's. - 0.0 PVP is the arena of capitals, supercapitals, with now added moat and 1+ month defences to grind through, just to keep the big bad black knight away from the scared villagers within. - high-sec PVP is still the only one that is left if you want tops BS class ships. You might get blobbed, or maybe not, but 1-2 pilots can still make a difference. And CCP nerfed it. Thanks CCP for nerfing Privateers. I'm waiting for CCP's announcement of uber platinum insurance that covers mods cost and of letting capitals in high-sec but only in the same grid with the cyno. You think it won't come ? Just wait. :) On a happier note, I have been playing for little over a year so I am not bored yet. I am curious to know if in 2 years i will write a similar thread and link Ug's thread there. PS: Still can't get my mind off how idiotic the whole Heat thing is. Heat is stupid. Why ? Because you most of the times don't overheat your guns, you will overheat your armor tank but not for more than 1min as you may take just too much damage, and the bonuses that it gives to the mid-slot tackling gear are just way too overpowered. Decrease the damage given to the module, and decrease the bonuses to the module, or give them a chance system to take effect. --- Adopt a goon today, goons need lub and support too. Do you want him out in the cold, starving ?
With JudgeReinhold Gallente Legal Team	Posted - 2007.06.23 22:31:00 - [96] Originally by: maria stallion I agree with Ugluuk mostly, I think eve becomes more boring with every patch to publish. -solo pvp is nealry impossible -cap ship equals borings hours and hours staring at a hostile or friendly pos. -new station services if eve wasn't boring enough yeah lets add another day of shield transporting to get the services up again... Back in the old days you could go of with a raven mega or what ever you liked and you could kill some **** with a decent setup. now you need a gang to get anything done simply because game mechanics don't allow solo pvp anymore. it's a shame and I hope ccp will try to make the game a bit more intense again and not all pos shooting and repairing... It is pretty ironic that station services, which CCP promised would revitalize small-gang pvp, have become just another checkbox on the capital blob's to-do list.
turnschuh Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2007.06.23 22:37:00 - [97] regarding privateers: turnschuh5 > @Oveur, will Factional Warefare be simular to what Privateers have been pre-nerf? (in a positiv way, lots of pvp in empire, not the nub ganking part) CCP Oveur > turnschuh: yes, something along those lines CCP Oveur > you'll be fighting soldiers from other empires
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.23 22:42:00 - [98] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 23/06/2007 22:43:04 Originally by: With JudgeReinhold Originally by: maria stallion I agree with Ugluuk mostly, I think eve becomes more boring with every patch to publish. -solo pvp is nealry impossible -cap ship equals borings hours and hours staring at a hostile or friendly pos. -new station services if eve wasn't boring enough yeah lets add another day of shield transporting to get the services up again... Back in the old days you could go of with a raven mega or what ever you liked and you could kill some **** with a decent setup. now you need a gang to get anything done simply because game mechanics don't allow solo pvp anymore. it's a shame and I hope ccp will try to make the game a bit more intense again and not all pos shooting and repairing... It is pretty ironic that station services, which CCP promised would revitalize small-gang pvp, have become just another checkbox on the capital blob's to-do list. And they are not even denying. When i read that dev blog about how they are intentionally trying to make a fortress out of a station, i then and there realized that the amarr problem is not a problem because 90% of eve plays caldari, 7% gallente and 2.999$ minmatarr, so screw amarr. Most of the additions they made lately has either been hastily made or without much thought - remember how many times you were told on SISI about i-stabbs Tux before they were changed on TQ ?, and many times just been more bling bling than actually thought in the implementation. I mean the drone regions and the effect they had on mineral prices, on the fact that drone regions are still bugged, on the fact that Heat is not balanced and that it was tested for just a few weeks on SISI. But on the other hand they had plenty of publicity. Don't get me wrong, i just loved invention and what it did to T2 price cartels - invention and LP shops have been well thought out, but now i have mixed feelings about them, since everybody can now afford a HAC and just shrug it off as a very small loss. I do hope that the devs have in the future a change towards less ISK given to the player because right now, you can buy + fit a HAC with 1d of ratting in a region such as Pure Blind, which just about says it all. PS: 1d of ratting in PB or 2 level 4's. :( --- Adopt a goon today, goons need lub and support too. Do you want him out in the cold, starving ?
Potty Caldari World Order	Posted - 2007.06.23 22:53:00 - [99] Edited by: Potty on 23/06/2007 22:53:33 EDIT* - I did write a long post about how over the past four years EvE has got worse. From alliances, ships and most recienty POS to the general attitude of the community and CCP. but I would have just got flamed and told to play WoW* On a side note, last night I found my EvE CD case + manual which was a nostalgia read.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.23 23:13:00 - [100] Only issue I have with eve is the ******* lag - Recruitment open again-

lethario desrtuction Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.06.23 23:19:00 - [101] I agree and feel the old days of fleet fights are over---Now for the old school members enjoy--http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1544316036
lethario desrtuction Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.06.23 23:22:00 - [102] http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1544316036 sorry guys works if you cut and paste
Kaeten Hybrid Syndicate	Posted - 2007.06.23 23:40:00 - [103] Rev 2 helped solo pvp abit. Ccp do abit more plz. Pwnage PvP Recruitment \m/ Metal Head \m/
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.06.23 23:45:00 - [104] I wasnt playing that long ago, but given the decline i have seen since I moved to 0.0 it must have been amazing. There is no point going out solo anymore, I still love the rax, I used to camp and run up and down a nice pipe and through a few ratting/mining systems in it every day. A few days ago a saw a deimos... now that should kick the **** out my rax right... but it fled, i figured there must be a reason for this, fitted with stabs or carrying something amazingly expensive... I chased him for 2 jumps before jumping into a gang of his mates who all promptly ganked me. It could have been an easy solo kill for him, but no ones willing to risk it anymore. HP Boost has made damn sure if you fight the scout you fight his buddys. AFs, my old prime target, are now not worth flying as a t1 fitted t1 cruiser will rip their guts out if the pilot is in anyway competent. Hell the thorax can go 2 or 3 vs 1 with AFs now. Dont start me on titans and motherships... the ridiculousness of CCP's decisions with these boggles the mind.
Gungankllr Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.06.23 23:49:00 - [105] I get around the whole anti-blobtastic thing by fighting people that think the same way I do. Most of the people in and around Venal, Branch and Pure Blind (for the most part) like to run small to medium sized raiding gangs, and you can get some freaking awesome fights out of them. But yeah, I do miss the fights I used to get a couple of years back before Capitals.
Gray Carmicheal Valiant Logistics Inc. Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.24 00:01:00 - [106] I remember how Eve was when I started playing, which was the period Ug's talking about. I remember studying Ug's style because it was the way I wanted to play, and still is. Difference? I can't do it much anymore. Totally agree Ug. I miss pre-Cap Ship Online. This Sig is Within Rules. :P
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 01:41:00 - [107] Question is, are they listening to us at all, or just letting us whine about it and hope this thread runs it's course?
Deep Throat	Posted - 2007.06.24 02:16:00 - [108] ok i wrote like a page and half about this.. but got cut off as i pushed post reply anyways, in short, i toally agree and i think its mostly cause of blob,conquest player driven empire stuff and the interdictor why this game is getting more and more boring like someone said, nobody likes to loose, so its endless backups and then more backups, everyone huddles up in core systems with wasteland inbettween in short, boring, stagnant, predictable, unimaginative solutions: -loosen it up nr.1 add more jumps everywhere, give more possibilites, more manuverability, less control make everything look like jita area or amarr area.. nr.2 add npc stations everywhere with cloning, make it impossible to control 10 regions with massive blobs and doomsdays and gatecamps, make it chaotic,make it interesting nr.3 get rid of the interdictor for good, it only makes ppl not want to take risks and do nothing, everyone likes to have em and nobody likes to face em, cause they are the decidding factor.. if u loose a fight everyone dies.. and in the end.. nobody fights.... it is the best ship in the game to have but it also destroyes all the combat element and fortifies the blobbing nr.4 restrict capital ships for combat severly, penalties and more penalties.. so that they wont be used as much unless it is really needed
Surreptitious Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 02:30:00 - [109] EVE has gone from girlfriend to wife. 10x the effort for 1/10 the reward. DX10 games will play the role of my attorney. I think the best EVE has to offer has passed for people like us. When I first started playing 4 years ago EVE was a good sustitute for an FPS, with pirates and low sec the action was literally that intense and readily available. It has been far short of that for about 2 years now and the Privateers were the closest we had come to being back there. I do understand its an MMO and shouldnt be compared to an FPS but the current state of affairs is just horrible. Im either bored to tears shooting a POS for hours or spending hundreds of millions of isk a week to have a select few wars in empire. Can we have somethign in-between? To ask for its hay-day back is impossible considering the adjustments required. The one saving grace could be faction warfare. But barring complete empire PVP mayhem I fear it wont quelch the thirst some of the PVP community has developed. Syrup
Sidrat Flush Caldari Wolf Pack Enterprises E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.06.24 02:55:00 - [110] Quite what the attorney role is I can only guess... Here goes. "Billed by the hour for an outrageous starting fee, and then a multiplier over a certain threshold. This includes thinking time while in the shower of course. Not guaranteed results to your liking. Very very difficult to change without paying a "admin" fee." Apart from that, I still prefer my idea of a "league table". Corps that want to go back to "the old days" team up in groups of five or six, ten even if it can be afforded. One Corp each week wardecs the others. The winner is the corp with the best results, whatever that means of course. PvP fun, industrial based fun for supplying outfitting and the like and empire is kept interesting again. Sure it may end up with stations being camped but that happens in empire/npc region wars anyway. Killboards for each corp could be set up on one website/league. Too expensive? Too organised? What do you think? Life is about memories the more the better. End Slavery.

UndergrounD Caldari Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.06.24 04:19:00 - [111] Ugluuk speaks the truth -----------------------------------------------
The Ratfink Itto-Ryu Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.06.24 05:20:00 - [112] I couldn't agree with you more but.. now lets sit in the 'CCP Seat' /CCP Seat mode I couldn't agree with you more we hate blobs too not only is eve not designed to be blob warfare it is havoc for the servers!. Hence we are making the following changes to break up the blobs produce incentives such as 'Battleball' where you get small group bonus's for not blobbing, bombers abilities used against huge groups of gangs that blob. Infact the bigger the blob the more damage it takes on from the bombers. The sovereignty issue is being looked into by ways of making mini objectives for taking a pos down instead of sitting there and shooting aimless for 10 hours a day. /CCP Seat off So if CCP said the above to you which in some ways they already have, how would you respond to these changes? i guess we can only see when they get around to implementing any of these ideas.
xeom Coagulated	Posted - 2007.06.24 05:56:00 - [113] Even low-sec has turned into just ganks.I can't even find a solo pirate or small pirate groups to have fun with anymore.And when ever there is just 1 or two of them out comes carrier so fun. Small scale is pvp is gone. I don't see CCP stopping any of this.Huge blobs,big expensive items,bigger time sinks to show off. All things that get them more subscribers.The sad part is I'm still playing for some stupid reason =\| --- Coagulated -Videos- Viciously Delicious New! Non-Entity
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.24 08:22:00 - [114] Time for T2 anti cap BS? -
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.06.24 08:32:00 - [115] Originally by: Phelan Lore Time for T2 anti cap BS? As much as I was against the Ideea of a T2 BS, it might not be such a bad ideea. :) --- Adopt a goon today, goons need lub and support too. Do you want him out in the cold, starving ?
Farscape Hw Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.24 08:52:00 - [116] i agree with ugluuk completly. this game is getting borring for me. i wish ccp would stop putting more complicated crap in this game and just fix the problems the last several loads of crap they put in the game caused. flying with pandamic legion has brought back some fun into the game for me as they engage larger gangs and have adapted to the stupid crap everyone here has learned to live with. but everytime i lose a ship to a recon webbing me, nossing me, dampening me, jamming me, all from 40-50km... or fighting a mothership that is like god mode... it brings me closer and closer to just throwing my hands up and giving up on this game that sways further and further away from pvp. nano bs's were awesome for some of the ******** tactics station hugging carebear noobs in carriers were using. but like all things in eve that carebears complain about, it was nerfed. i have adapted properly though. my machariel is not what it was b4 the nerf but it still gets us some carrier kills every now and then. and theres also the lag. everytime something new is added to eve, it gets worse. its getting so bad i dont even feel like logging in on weekends(thats when the server likes to have "database issues"). i have a short clip in video section of these forums of where i lose a megathron because 40 ppl were too much for the system to handle. and when i petition and, and i did, i will wait up to 2 months for a response. just to be told to go screw myself. ffs who do i think i am? Dianabolic? i have no friends on msn. if i had 1 isk for every time i closed eve in discust because of the obvious favoritism... ide be flying a titan. thats my whine for this week.
Tearvygh Quillam	Posted - 2007.06.24 09:08:00 - [117] All in all, it could be great if we didn't have lag with 50 palyers in the system and server going down 3 times a day... Unbalanced developpement has been fixed from time to time, but lag was never put to rest in a decisive way.
Tearvygh Quillam	Posted - 2007.06.24 09:09:00 - [118] All in all, it could be great if we didn't have lag with 50 palyers in the system and server going down 3 times a day... Unbalanced developpement has been fixed from time to time, but lag was never put to rest in a decisive way.
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 09:10:00 - [119] All in all, it could be great if we didn't have lag with 50 palyers in the system and server going down 3 times a day... Unbalanced developpement has been fixed from time to time, but lag was never put to rest in a decisive way.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.24 09:37:00 - [120] Edited by: LUKEC on 24/06/2007 09:38:26 Originally by: Phelan Lore Time for T2 anti cap BS? You really think caps are the problem? Or more likely nobody engaging anything he's not sure to win and nobody bothering chasing them as you know they will vanish in thin air as soon as you corner them. Fun & games. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.

SibSpi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.06.24 09:45:00 - [121] Haven't been playing nearly as long as most of the people here, but I do have to agree, EVE is getting really, really boring. The use of capital ships as the new BS is just game progression. But, what I believe is killing solo PVP and small gang pvp is local standings, and warp to zero. And the arguments over why have been said over and over. ------------- When in doubt, F1->F8...
Sey'ada Decadence.	Posted - 2007.06.24 10:23:00 - [122] Edited by: Sey''ada on 24/06/2007 10:22:15 Worst thing that happend to eve are carrier and ms. They are lag generators, they kill everything by lagging everything out
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.24 10:53:00 - [123] Edited by: welsh wizard on 24/06/2007 10:52:13 I reckon this outpouring of feeling from this select portion of the community can be attributed to having played the game for 3-4 years, at least in part. People start to get weary of the very best games in that amount of time. I do miss the prevalence of the battleship in the field though. The fast, brutal merciless 5 minute fleet fights of old are less and less common as multiple Ewar platforms and capital ships disrupt the flow of combat. As LukeC says there is a certain aversion to engaging capital ships but I think his reasoning isnt infact entirely correct. Half the problem is the relative pointlessness of engaging anymore than 1 or 2 without capitals of your own. By now the initial rush in anticipation of the fight has ended. A whole fleet has to be organised and you have to have your dictor pilots, and you have to have your dampening ships and carrier pilots. "Oh they're not logged on, nevermind then". On the other hand I can appreciate the positive aspects of these massive fights, they're just not always to my taste. Apparently this sentiment is shared by other members of the community. Reversing the hitpoint buff could be a start...
BOBHOPE Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.24 11:08:00 - [124] some good points in this thread but i personally still love it 4.5 yrs on. i do get bored at times as a lot of my eve career has been about solo fights and small gang warfare but this is not always possible anymore :( nevermind, i adapt and try as i will for the next 4.5 yrs
MortyM Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.24 11:25:00 - [125] You all sound like my grandparents, whining about how great things used to be and how everything is going to hell. You fail to see that the problem is not with the game, but with yourself. It's only naturally that after a certain amount of time doing something you lose interest in it. The typical human response is to blame this on evolution of the game, but in reality it is much more because your yourself have evolved. I used to have great fun flying around solo in cruise missile rifters, dual oversized ab cruisers, or whatever flavor of the month of the past. I could reminence about how much more fun that was and how sad it is that those things are not possible anymore. But consider that now after 4 years I'd still be flying cruise missile rifters, now THAT would be boring. I've been bored with EvE too and taken breaks from it for a month, six months, or even longer. But it's the constant evolution of the game that makes me come back everytime. If things always stayed the same I would have left for good long ago.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.24 11:35:00 - [126] Originally by: MortyM You all sound like my grandparents, whining about how great things used to be and how everything is going to hell. You fail to see that the problem is not with the game, but with yourself. It's only naturally that after a certain amount of time doing something you lose interest in it. The typical human response is to blame this on evolution of the game, but in reality it is much more because your yourself have evolved. I used to have great fun flying around solo in cruise missile rifters, dual oversized ab cruisers, or whatever flavor of the month of the past. I could reminence about how much more fun that was and how sad it is that those things are not possible anymore. But consider that now after 4 years I'd still be flying cruise missile rifters, now THAT would be boring. I've been bored with EvE too and taken breaks from it for a month, six months, or even longer. But it's the constant evolution of the game that makes me come back everytime. If things always stayed the same I would have left for good long ago. You're not wrong, I've seen it in multiple gaming communities before. The Counter-Strike 1.6 community died because everyone got bored of it, cheating was made the scapegoat though. However I don't think it is entirely attributable to boredom, the pvp mechanic has changed significantly over the last year and much of it isn't to my taste either. A few months ago I was addicted, completely infatuated, then came the hitpoint buff & super capitals. Super capitals I can live with especially with the Rev 2 changes but the hitpoint buff proved completely unneccessary in my eyes. I think many simpily miss the feeling that is vapourising an opponents battleship in 10 seconds with 3 gank battleships. Sure it was harsh on the target and whoever was made primary in a fight, but god-damn it was fun! The brutal no-holds-barred honesty of a fleets fire bought to bear seems to be a thing of the past because now you find yourself being brutally honest over a 10 minute period as a carriers health slowly trickles away.
Barry O'mass Simtech Productions Peons of Doom	Posted - 2007.06.24 11:38:00 - [127] i am a new char and quite new to pvp, carebearing it up while i get some skills together. i decided to do a little solo hunting... So jumped around 3 or 4 0.0 systems in my domi and come across a hostile Myr approaching same gate, he starts to close in on me, i assume he thinks i am a care bare. so i web scram and nos launch drones.. his tank is going down fast. Then he just disappears... i think log off? the gate fires.. oh he went though the gate. Lesson learnt Then the gate fires again and a hac and a command ship come through and lock me.. great i am in for a fight, i will probably die but at least i am in for some fun, bang my shield, amour and hull all gone wtf. oh maybe that dreadnought has something to do with it!!!! Second pvp exsperance came at a friendly gate camp, i sit there for over 1 hour, not being able to shoot anything because nothing bigger than a frigate is coming through ( i am in a cruiser) and they get popped before i can lock, then local lights up red.. great we are in for a fight.. as the reds warp in a pick my target open fire and die. wtf oh only me and a fellow corp mate are left at the gate. Why wouldn't anybody stand and fight i ask myself... Now these two exsperances plus some other's lead me to believe 1 thing; PvP'ers don't like to grind for isk to buy a new ship to PvP in so why risk losing your ship if you can just out number some one and get easy kills. and from what i have seen / heard ppl only commit to a fight when they out number their opponent at least 2-1 I want fair fun fights but I donÆt think it is going to happen, so I will just gank ppl instead
Mei Han Gallente Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 11:39:00 - [128] Well the patch brought many good new changes for me and every other around i belive. The only disapointment in my oppinion is that CCP may should be more focused in the matters that bother us. That is the performance. Its high time i belive for a new client that does not have that many problems AND does not forse your card to render or sthing when completely zoomed out. On all accounts the Need for Speed initiate will overall give us a tiny boost in performance.
Darknesss D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.24 11:44:00 - [129] I do agree with ugluuk to a degree, there was a time i could go out solo in my mega/eos/taranis and get some absolutely amazing solo fights, as shown in my older video's. That kind of combat while now much harder to find does still exist, so does skirmishing non-blob warfare we get it all the time in venal. Also asking for 1v1's ive only ever been betrayed in a 1v1 once, and it wouldnt put me off asking. I love to do 1v1's and im happy to say that alot of the people i do it with are honourable people who stick to their word. If anyone in TRI offers or gets asked for a 1v1 and accepts they will play by the rules if they dont they will get booted from TRI. But i do also agree that older players have to adapt to the times, but in different areas of space comes differing types of combat, try moving about a bit
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.24 11:52:00 - [130] Edited by: welsh wizard on 24/06/2007 11:51:23 Originally by: Darknesss ... That kind of combat while now much harder to find does still exist, so does skirmishing non-blob warfare we get it all the time in venal.... It does exist, it just doesn't matter as much anymore, the fleet isn't important. Capital ships, Ewar, interdictors & cyno ships do. With many feeling that the battleship should still be the backbone of every operation this is a sore point.

Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.24 12:15:00 - [131] Edited by: Plutoinum on 24/06/2007 12:22:02 Getting bored may be a reason. So then for me it's: - being bored of gate-camping (keeping a gatecamp up for a week against RA in the C-J area was more than enough camping for my whole life) - getting bored of roam-ganking. Not really new to fly around with 8 people and gank some npc'ers. Have done that already 2 years ago in interceptor gangs - battleship fights can be still good fun, but if they die in fighterswarm-lag, it's not fun anymore. And battleship fleetfights don't really have a big impact, it's all about poses and capitals - The capital-age with huge fleets is not really open to me. Masses of ships and fighterswarms make eve to a slide show. I have noticed that the almost total freeze stops, if I open the map during combat. Well, then I can shoot something, but still not navigate right, because I'm on the map. This new eve seems to be made for 2006/2007 PCs and I don't have that and I don't plan to upgrade my PC once a year. edit yes, and pos shooting and pos recharging sucks of course, if it's not done within half an hour. It's absolutely boring, except you get some fights inbetween, which often doesn't happen.
Tanya Kovacs	Posted - 2007.06.24 12:37:00 - [132] CCP needs timesinks because they have to keep the players busy with skilling for something. I wonder what will happen when everybody and his dog is flying a dread or carrier? Another point is: the increased player base. More subscriptions = more players out there = more blobs.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.24 12:43:00 - [133] Originally by: Darknesss That kind of combat while now much harder to find does still exist, so does skirmishing non-blob warfare we get it all the time in venal. Unless if you camp station with few capital ships & bubbles. Don't get me wrong, it needs to be done in Venal if you want to maintain certain degree of control... just maybe you would get more fights if you would not camp... but perhaps only few mingshuwfh004 more would come dock every once in a while... Maybe game mechanics need some changes, whole align & warp instantly, warp to 0, ss+cloak, ... It's carebear's paradise and exactly no need to fight for it. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.24 12:51:00 - [134] Originally by: Ugluuk The Eve community is known to play the most advanced pvp game available today.. [...] well most of the bears feel confident in their capitals without really knowing how to use them thats why you sometimes see utter disasters on killboards with some alliance losing 5+ capitals to what was supposed to be a skirmish (as in, not a fight at a pos) so ug get your own guys in capitals and start pwning, the game moved on from plated raxes and blasterthrons and so should you imho :) o/ - Gob - Go Now with 20% extra emo!
Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.24 15:25:00 - [135] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: Ugluuk The Eve community is known to play the most advanced pvp game available today.. [...] so ug get your own guys in capitals and start pwning, the game moved on from plated raxes and blasterthrons and so should you imho Well mate.. Plated Rax`s was 40mill.. Carriers cost 1 bill to learn the skills for.. 1 bill for the ship.. Am i the only one in Eve that didn`t win the 100bill lottery? To a more serious reply: I work 9 hours each day..Add 2 hours driving to that + i got a little girl.. Plated Raxes i can still afford..But Carriers nope..:( Eve has always been for those who have time..But before those with little time could also make a difference if they used a couple of days to make isk.. Couple of days has turned into months for a ship you might loose in 15min.. http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Ugluuk
Vulor Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.24 15:51:00 - [136] Originally by: Ugluuk I work 9 hours each day..Add 2 hours driving to that + i got a little girl.. CCP nerf work!!! -- No sig today!
Hexman The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.06.24 16:01:00 - [137] /signed I particularly miss solo low-sec pirating...now, low-sec is mostly deserted :(
Keta Min Armoured Assassins	Posted - 2007.06.24 16:12:00 - [138] i miss old pvp, too.
Cuebick Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.24 16:41:00 - [139] I look back and I can only say.. those were the days man.. those were the days I get more fun out of the test server stop fudging with my sig :( waves -HornFrog
Father Weebles Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.06.24 17:26:00 - [140] Blobs are used quite often these days im afraid. I remember 1 month ago there were 6 of us taking out a pure sleipnir (roaming gang), and pure jumps in 40 ppl, warps to the gate we were at and all of our clients froze. We lost 2 battleships and their pods and ccp gms gave them the same crap "we did not find any issues with the logs". **** that ccp, if your gms are not gonna give back our stuff because of server issues im not going to pvp in 00 anymore. Well, i went back to 00 a week ago, killed an omen and a hurricane in 2 1/2 hours of roaming. :/ Have had a blast going toe to toe with GUARD alliance blobs in empire tho. "You leave anything for us?" "Just bodies."

Dave PSI Haendlergilde S.E.R.A	Posted - 2007.06.24 17:29:00 - [141] Originally by: Oberkorn I must agree with ugluuk. I miss the old days. Most of the fun I had was in the empire wars we had against The Confederation and FIX (lost count  ) small gang and a lot of soloing. Now its gank or get ganked + billion cyno jumps in on you. If you had most of your fun in empire, nothing changed for you. Still no caps and no dictors there T R U S T shop: http://www.evetrust.com // Haendlergilde [HAE]
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.24 18:17:00 - [142] Edited by: LUKEC on 24/06/2007 18:17:46 Originally by: Dave PSI Originally by: Oberkorn I must agree with ugluuk. I miss the old days. Most of the fun I had was in the empire wars we had against The Confederation and FIX (lost count  ) small gang and a lot of soloing. Now its gank or get ganked + billion cyno jumps in on you. If you had most of your fun in empire, nothing changed for you. Still no caps and no dictors there Ofcourse it did. Hp boosted for 1.25^2 and warp to 0. Added: only thing you need to be afraid in empire is lagita and undock blackscreens. You can't die in anyhting smaller than bs, really. Not that shooting 1 month old newbs and suiciding onto hulks presents much challenge. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 18:30:00 - [143] ok, time for suggestions I think please add to mine if you like. 1. POS's, easy and cheap to build, easy to kill 2. Bring back mines, a mined gate or POS will kill fighters and support very fast and thus reduce lag very quickly. Attacking a prepared position should always hurt. The one thats there "firstest with the mostest" should have advantage of position. 3. Stations should have built in nasty defenses and should be hard to kill and be able to defend its' self against anything except a capital ship attack. 4. Rather than make gangs stronger with implants and skills, make them less effective after say 25. Command and controll is always the issue in large military formations, the bigger it is the greater the "fog of war". Trust me, after 24 years in military service you see this time after time. Communications get very fubared, people don't get orders, some people go to the wrong place you name it. 5. And I am sorry for saying this but Carriers are way to powerful. In real life terms they are sitting ducks without a whole fleet around them protecting it. Fighters should not be assignable, should have a limited range and ammunition. Real fighters are not a stand and fight weapons platform, they should have to be recalled and refueled after a few passes on a target. 6. For goodness sake back off the war costs and allow us to put some spice back it the game. Say what you want but pirates, BoB, Merc Corps are good for the economy. (I mean that) 7. Make bombers hurt like hell in low sec, especially on carriers More to come.
Hexman The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.06.24 18:37:00 - [144] Originally by: The Hooch ok, time for suggestions I think please add to mine if you like. bunch of stuff that makes sense.... More to come. I'd like to shorten some of your suggestions into one sentence: CCP stop trying to fix broken things by taking the easy way out (i.e. using the damn nerfbat)
hybridundertaker Amarr coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.24 18:40:00 - [145] well i do agree to some extent with the op. However, content is meant for ppl who like industry, carebearing, lotta isk etc as well as for pvpers. U whine 2 much about capital ships, damps wtf pwn carriers, dreads are hardly usefull for fleetcombat (if u dont bring caps ure self ofc), titans are rare (in solo/small gang buisiness that is), and most mothership pilots are 2 scared to ever leave the low sec. A carebear might be very rich but its still a carebear, what is a bit upsetting is supercap fleet in hands of proper pvpers EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.24 21:51:00 - [146] Edited by: Wrayeth on 24/06/2007 21:52:54 Originally by: welsh wizard Reversing the hitpoint buff could be a start... [sarcasm]What, make it possible to kill someone before his 3787 buddies show up from 3 jumps away? That'll never work - it's not like the game was like that for 3 years and a lot more fun back then or anything....[/sarcasm] Seriously, I would support this change 100%. EDIT: Actually, I support it 97% - I think the capital hitpoint increase should stay in, though not, perhaps, with quite as many hitpoints as they have now. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Taurequis Waylander 01	Posted - 2007.06.24 22:03:00 - [147] The only issue which i think many people dont see by focusing on the changes to ships, modules and gameplay alone is the space itself. 3-4 years ago we had 4000 people and many many stars. Isolation led to extreames of survival, extreames of risk, extreames of isolation. Now we have 30000 people in the same space. Sharing all the wonder. But alas you are hardly alone. CCP should give us 10 times the space we already have. And thus the sandbox is reborn. Best Regards, Taur
Elfaen Ethenwe Eternal Rising EternalRising	Posted - 2007.06.24 22:34:00 - [148] it does amuse me that those backing the point of the thread are the ones suffering and the ones against it are the ones who never lived it. Some parts of the old game did need fixing. ravens should not be able to keep up with their missiles, thorax's should not be able to kill fleets solo e.t.c but what we got was a harsh axe wield that has eventually killed the game for the solo player. I can almost still do it in a vagabond or a factioned curse, but any ship beyond that struggles. but i think that its not the game thats caused the loss of fun, its the fact theres a lot less in it.
Matrixcvd Last Serenity The Sundering	Posted - 2007.06.24 22:38:00 - [149] Having played since March of last year, I find it interesting how many of the older players can't seem to adapt, something from RL springs to my mind . This game is the most advanced set of rules and mechanics to ever grace a computer screen. It's sheer complexity and necessity for organization are what drive the exprience. With respect to the people who can't stand the fact there is no more solo, i think you should pick up a nice FPS/RTS and go nuts. This game isn't about what 1 person can do and the previous posters comments about the size and scope of space and the population have proved that. When I first started playing, i would typically get ganked in my ferox or raven running missions in low sec by solo HAC pilot, i got organized and that buisness stopped by bring friends, omg did he say friends, to the fight. Back then you would look at how old the player was and judge whether you can take them, now its "can we bring what it takes to take out the enemey" and if thats 4-1 so be it, we get the kill mail and he goes via the POD train. To the comments that people don't fight fair, this is the most ridiculous statement and just speaks volumes going back to the fact that certain people can't evolve. No one fights fair, why would you? You fight to win and kill the opponent. To the people out there who speak of fairness, should we all put on bright red coats and stand in a line marching thru a gate so that you may blow us to pieces? Or should we do what the demios pilot did, bait and WACK!. Never fight fair, there is no honor in dying. You want fair play tic-tac-toe. We fight, we learn, we loose, we fight and next time hopefully we best the enemy. Get better organized, learn to engage and deal with capitals, heat will help T1 vs T2, suck it up or quit, plenty of new MMOs out there but i don't see 34000 people up and leaving because someone cyno bombed them the night before. And if they did, great! I wont be any chance of me flying under the same color.
Grytok German Kings FROST Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 22:50:00 - [150] Edited by: Grytok on 24/06/2007 22:51:14 Originally by: Goberth Ludwig well most of the bears feel confident in their capitals without really knowing how to use them thats why you sometimes see utter disasters on killboards with some alliance losing 5+ capitals to what was supposed to be a skirmish (as in, not a fight at a pos) so ug get your own guys in capitals and start pwning, the game moved on from plated raxes and blasterthrons and so should you imho :) o/ - Gob - Go Yeah, saw that today, when you jumped in 3 Carriers on our 3 BS + little support, while we were waiting to fight a small BS-gang of yours. nvm.. Capitals are not all that bad, but they should not be able to engage something, thats smaller then them. Carriers should give support to their Dread-Fleet, while engaging enemy POS, with Shield, Cap and Armour-Transfer, or sending out the Fighters to engage enemy Dreads. Capitals are ment for territory warfare, i.E. POSs and Station engagements, not for engaging hostile Battleship-Gangs. Remove their ability to lock anything smaller then a Capital, problem solved. .

The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 22:57:00 - [151] 1. POS's should be deep space mining venues and have only things that miners use, risky business but worth if you take the chance, they should have only heavy shields and when they are gone, they are dead, re-enforcement should be done away with completely. If you ain't there to defend it, you lose it. 2. If you want a battle station as a forward operation area thats fine, one or the other don't try to make them both. But even they should be vunerable to attack and loss. 3. If you want to control an area then let the real stations do it, and have them claim soverenity over say...3 three jumps, then they would be placed greater care to maximize control over key jump points. Like a fort build at fork in the road or rivers. Frankly, CCP should speak to the many, many military members from all over the world that play this game, asking for suggestions and how real combat takes place and is done. Also, they should talk to business types as well to see if they could make the industry side a bit better too.
Empyre Domestic Reform	Posted - 2007.06.24 23:00:00 - [152] i always felt an equal part of this game was trying to learn and adapt to changing game mechanics.. they have been changing for as long as i've been playing. op has some valid points.. i just have to disagree with the idea it is killing this game. people will change and adapt new tactics and the game will change again. it's the evolution of a truly dynamic game.. i'm proud to still be a player here. People argue when their personal views are at odds -- Removed Rauths' message stating they removed my empty image tag. -Empyre
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 23:00:00 - [153] Originally by: Grytok Edited by: Grytok on 24/06/2007 22:51:14 Originally by: Goberth Ludwig well most of the bears feel confident in their capitals without really knowing how to use them thats why you sometimes see utter disasters on killboards with some alliance losing 5+ capitals to what was supposed to be a skirmish (as in, not a fight at a pos) so ug get your own guys in capitals and start pwning, the game moved on from plated raxes and blasterthrons and so should you imho :) o/ - Gob - Go Yeah, saw that today, when you jumped in 3 Carriers on our 3 BS + little support, while we were waiting to fight a small BS-gang of yours. nvm.. Capitals are not all that bad, but they should not be able to engage something, thats smaller then them. Carriers should give support to their Dread-Fleet, while engaging enemy POS, with Shield, Cap and Armour-Transfer, or sending out the Fighters to engage enemy Dreads. Capitals are ment for territory warfare, i.E. POSs and Station engagements, not for engaging hostile Battleship-Gangs. Remove their ability to lock anything smaller then a Capital, problem solved. Good suggestion!
Brunswick2 eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.24 23:08:00 - [154] Its becoming increasingly hard to kill things solo these days... I can remember when I would go roaming in a cheap arbitrator because I was a bit low on ISK, and still manage to kill things... now even with my curse/pilgrim/geddon/whatever all that happens is I warp to a belt, the raven just cloaks, or it has a stab fitted so I can't catch it... I look around for a couple minutes, scan around... oh look two archons and a nyx, hmm, and local's up to 70, guess its time to log [IXC] Recruitment O RLY? - Kreul
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.24 23:12:00 - [155] how can carriers being unable to lock small ships a good suggestion? In doing so, basically means if a cap is caught out in the open by itself (which due to jump drive, can happen), they can't do anything about it, just sit there, being held down, all day, by a frigate. Don't say they should have a support fleet there waiting as the whole logistics of that is ridiculous. 1 or 2 dampner ships will make a single carrier useless. In order for them to be effective they need a support gang, by themselves they are very vulnerable. I find that capital ships add an extra dimension to fights, requiring additional coordination amongst the caps and the support fleet and some of the best fights I have been in have centred around these ships. Oh and no reinforced on POS isn't a good idea, as it makes it too easy for a specific timezone alliance to come prey on a target who are all asleep.
Cmd Woodlouse moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.06.24 23:14:00 - [156] Originally by: Agent2 Holtze Eve have become a chat program for me.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.24 23:15:00 - [157] Originally by: Brunswick2 Its becoming increasingly hard to kill things solo these days... I can remember when I would go roaming in a cheap arbitrator because I was a bit low on ISK, and still manage to kill things... now even with my curse/pilgrim/geddon/whatever all that happens is I warp to a belt, the raven just cloaks, or it has a stab fitted so I can't catch it... I look around for a couple minutes, scan around... oh look two archons and a nyx, hmm, and local's up to 70, guess its time to log Well at least its just the NPCers who run off with stabs for the most part these days. pvp has advanced in the fact that those who want to fight now have a harder time escaping once committed thanks to the stab nerf. Oh and blobs have always existed, FIX would bring a 30-40 man blob to camp just 1 guy in because he was annoying (hi Ifni ) years ago, people will always defend their space and usually that means bringing as much as they can.
Grytok German Kings FROST Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.24 23:48:00 - [158] Originally by: Krugerrand how can carriers being unable to lock small ships a good suggestion? In doing so, basically means if a cap is caught out in the open by itself (which due to jump drive, can happen), they can't do anything about it, just sit there, being held down, all day, by a frigate. Don't say they should have a support fleet there waiting as the whole logistics of that is ridiculous. 1 or 2 dampner ships will make a single carrier useless. In order for them to be effective they need a support gang, by themselves they are very vulnerable. I find that capital ships add an extra dimension to fights, requiring additional coordination amongst the caps and the support fleet and some of the best fights I have been in have centred around these ships. Oh and no reinforced on POS isn't a good idea, as it makes it too easy for a specific timezone alliance to come prey on a target who are all asleep. Capital Ships should not be SoloPWN-Mobiles, and therefore they've to bring a support-fleet. Easy as that. We'd also get rid of Capitals camping in Low-Sec, shooting n00bs out of their frigates. .
Algorithm 5 Caldari Hakata Group	Posted - 2007.06.25 00:33:00 - [159] Originally by: laotse Edited by: laotse on 23/06/2007 18:02:25 Edited by: laotse on 23/06/2007 00:37:35 eve did die some time ago, all this cap **** didnt help. atm it is just a mather of time before 1000 people log in to see a great game fall down and never to stand up again the roaming gang,s we had in the old day,s never ever happen,s any more you fly against a noob using his carrier Noob? Carrier? Do you have any idea how long it takes to train up a combat-capable carrier pilot? If you mean people that somehow spent the 6-8b it takes to BUY a carrier pilot, ok maybe. But if there's anyone out there flying carriers, they are hardly "noobs".
Entschlossen Seraphin Technologies Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.25 00:42:00 - [160] Originally by: Grytok We'd also get rid of Capitals camping in Low-Sec, shooting n00bs out of their frigates. Post/mail me some system names where lonely/a few capitals are camping in low sec, and i am shure they will pop within days.

Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.06.25 01:31:00 - [161] I can see where Ugluuk is coming from, but tbh I think it's down to the Eve populace as a whole simply becoming smarter, like they've been told to do for years now in response to every whine thread ever posted. Only now they're too smart. /Ben How to fix Eve
Aldari Verve Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.06.25 02:11:00 - [162] Ugluuk, i couldn't have said it better dude. The game is going grander and grander in scale. Now what used to be done with 4-5 peoples takes much much more. Small corps are struggling to get by. The casual player is getting forced out of the game. Why you may ask. it's because smaller corps such as BOS has gone semi-nomadic and by the time they move their stuff we move again. The eve where people undocked to HAVE FUN is dead. The game has turned into a lag fest, blob warfare, and smacktards. Don't get me wrong there are some alliances that will engage even if outnumbered because it's fun and thats what the game is about. The game has some problems. Firstly Chinese isk farmers whom sell their isk for money in china. Fitting cloaks stabs and running and logging at the first sight of problems. Capitals while it was a neccesity to counter pos's which in my eye's was the begining of the down fall small groups. Now you have multicorp/multi alliance coalitsiosn to take down enemies. The fights are 75% capital based where as 2 years ago there was 100v100 fleet fights which were fun. Pos warfare has made the small groups turn larger and the larger groups turn immense. The only way it's going to change is unless there is a dramtic shift in game mechanics. The last patch was a start lets keep it going that way. Some things still need work lets see what ccp does with it. They can either run with it and take rev III farther and build upon Rev II or they cam mess it up. Any votes on which way they take it. lets just say i won't hold my breath. But in conclusion ugluuk i agree 100% -Aldari
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.25 04:01:00 - [163] Edited by: Wrayeth on 25/06/2007 04:00:27 Originally by: Matrixcvd With respect to the people who can't stand the fact there is no more solo, i think you should pick up a nice FPS/RTS and go nuts. This game isn't about what 1 person can do and the previous posters comments about the size and scope of space and the population have proved that. First and foremost, who are you to tell me how I should play? Given how new you are, you never experienced the real EVE before capitals, before POS warfare, and before the hitpoint boosts. You have absolutely no idea how much more fun it was since you weren't there, and now you rag on other people who were there who lament the lack of fun fights. Ever hear of a shifting baseline? No? Go look it up. As for the game not being about what one person could do, you've obviously never heard of legends like Farjung, Dave Tehsulei, Drunken One, etc. By themselves or with just one or two others, they would rack up kill counts to shame entire corps - and they wouldn't exploit or use questionable tactics to do it. Learn your history before you open your mouth. Quote: To the comments that people don't fight fair, this is the most ridiculous statement and just speaks volumes going back to the fact that certain people can't evolve. No one fights fair, why would you? You fight to win and kill the opponent. If this were real life, you would be 100% accurate. However, it's not. EVE is a game. Repeat that several times to yourself until you understand it. The point isn't just to win, but to have a little thing called fun doing it. Seriously, unless your enemy has extremely good loot or massively outclasses you just by himself, where's the fun in killing him 5-on-1? It presents no challenge, yet this is what most of EVE's PvP has devolved to. (Yes, I gank people, but 90% of the time I'm looking for an actual fight where the enemy shoots back before getting killed.) Quote: To the people out there who speak of fairness, should we all put on bright red coats and stand in a line marching thru a gate so that you may blow us to pieces? Or should we do what the demios pilot did, bait and WACK!. Never fight fair, there is no honor in dying. You want fair play tic-tac-toe. Again, you fail to understand that this is a game we play for entertainment. When you focus on the ends without making sure you enjoy the process of getting there, then your victory is hollow. After all, if you're paying to play a game and you're not having fun, why would you want to continue your subscription? To reiterate: in a game, winning is pointless if you don't enjoy the process of getting there. Quote: We fight, we learn, we loose, we fight and next time hopefully we best the enemy. This would be sage advice, indeed, if it included a blurb saying "and have fun doing it". However, this is the element you've left out of your argument. Come sit at a POS in a dreadnought for an entire weekend, then tell me how much fun winning is. Come wait three hours as you form up and move a gang for a five-minute engagement where half of your opponent's blob gets away, then tell me how much fun winning is. Winning in a game is crap without enjoyment. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Mogrin Caldari Spartan Fleet Systems	Posted - 2007.06.25 06:42:00 - [164] The problem actually boils down to the high loss of losing a fight. Even if there are no super capitals or capitals or POSs, its still going to be people looking to take advantage over somebody else, simply because of the huge losses involved. Not even counter strike is a fair fight, red vs blue is a fair fight. A mirror match of warcraft is a fair fight. Eve never has and never will be fair. If you fly a ship you can't afford to lose then people tell you don't fly what you can't afford to lose. If you fly a ship that you can afford to lose then people call you tech 1 noob cowards. This is a game of numbers, of isk and SPs and players. NOTHING is fair, it never was, and it never will be. Seriously, if you're looking for a fair, competitive game, you're looking in the wrong spot. You were making noobs whine this same thread with a different flavor when you overpowered the "carebears" and when it happens to you, oh look... _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
Mindlles 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.25 07:08:00 - [165] I really think its a 2 sided thing really. Todays eve has alot more deapth, fun ships, better balance then when i started this game 2003 :P. Ppl have also learned to play the game alot more, wich makes it funnier. Tho todays eve with all its futures has also created some problems. Back in the days, does that lived in 0.0 where hardknocked, they had to be. If they didnt form up and fight as soon a hostile gang entered system, the hostiles could just take over the station. "no posses, no sov and ****". And ppl actully had to defend them self at all cost, all the time. So if u brought a roaming gang off bs into a prime system u could cause some dmg by taking down the shilds on the station and controll it. Just aswhell the defenders really had to form up and fight. Today, a big part off the 0.0 ppl live in controlled space, and just stay docked and refuse to fight at all cost. And they only need to worry if their poses get shoot at, and then they just use their trillions off naped friends to blob the system :/. Wich will not make the players anny better at the fine art off pvp =(. Sure we have gotten the abilty to shoot station service now, we see how that turn out =). But still. And as ugluuk said, about unfair fights. Agree. Also the fact, when u fight some in eve - Oki we have about the same - who will go to the gate and show themself? And lets get rolling "kisses to bob". Then when u fight some ppl - ur gang is 30, enemy gang 60 with another 50 one jump out. And they go hide in posses and refuse to show themself. My questoin to does fc is what are u thinking? Ur gang will never be anny better if they dont get to fight, u will never be anny better as a pvper either. And when someone comes around that can kill ur posses u die very fast. Just look at d2. They where so big and bad,, so big and bad when they had 150vs 50. they refused to jump thrue a gate against outbreak and jumpbridge them in to a pos. 2 months later mc came and toke their space in a hearthbeat.. And sad part is, i see every other alliance doing the samethings. Then also, who can forget, about the cloaked fleets, ppl dont dare to fight, and i can countine for ever, ppl logging when u enter their system and so on. Oki im drifting off, but i guess my opion is, some ppl are getting worse at the game, ppl care to much about stats and numbers, and to little about the fun and to learn. Also some parts that have been implanted have been just bad, and some great,"nerf off stabs!!". T2 ships!!. And so on :P
Achaiah Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2007.06.25 07:18:00 - [166] I have not played all that long. I started playing Eve 15 months ago, but I have still noticed a big difference. I believe many feel winning is the reward itself and are happy as long as they find a way to win. If they have to endure POS warfare or use blobs 50v1, then it’s in the end worth it if they win (it is called to “evolve” on these forums). I personally don’t think winning is what is most enjoyable in Eve or any other PvP game. It’s the challenge. I much rather lose against a master then win against a novis. Eve seems to more and more move into strategy and away from tactics. People want to place themselves in a position where they can not lose when they engage the enemy. The problem with this is that it is kind of natural. There is little reason to be stupid when you can avoid it. What I find annoying is that it’s hard to find a challenge. You either gather up a blob and gank or you get ganked by a blob when you want to find some small gang action. Neither is especially fun, little challenge is involved. I have even seen a Titan DD a couple of frigates. How fun can that be for anyone involved? I believe one of the problems is that space is too crowded and far smaller now when capital ships are more common. People can easily blob and move capital ships all over the place in no time. Bigger space would probably give more options for players to find a way to play the game in a way they find enjoyable.
Gorjer Itto-Ryu Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.06.25 08:24:00 - [167] Hi! I used to completely agree and sympathise with your statement dude. However since i haveleft the big wars/ pos bashing, ive realised what CCP are trying to do. CHOICE They have added content, not with the intent that you have to go down that route, but as an added bonus,quest, dexerty(sp) to the game. You dont have to sit at a pos all day long repping, fueling, loving it. That's the choice of the alliance/corp you are in. (Although terratory = money) But there are plenty of otherways to do this. Also you can fly solo/smll gangs, theres just certain areas you avoid. Get in a speed curse, then u'll understand :P In conclusion, i understand that you may feel the new content has ruined the game, but its your choice on how you use that content, if you dont like what your doing now change the way you play... All in all, good luck! im sure you'l find what your looking for :P
Devoras2 Amarr KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.25 09:38:00 - [168] /signed It's great being Amarr, aint it?
spoon2 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.06.25 10:01:00 - [169] I prefered Eve 2 years back, I'm not a fan of capitals they have created more lag and less fun imo. I like recons though. CCP have to keep evolving it to keep people interested with new stuff to do and learn so I understand why they are always tinkering sometimes for better sometimes for worse.
Achaiah Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2007.06.25 10:08:00 - [170] Originally by: spoon2 Stuff This has nothing to do with what you posted, but I have to say it. You have a Boba Fett sig. You can post whatever you want and still win, despite the fact that its impossible to win the forum.

Dash Ripcock 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.25 10:29:00 - [171] I see where you're coming from Ug, but ultimately I disagree. In some ways it isn't the game that is broken, but the people who play it. mindlles mentions the fact that many alliances will avoid conflict. Too much isk on the line? If what is being said here is true, that there is too much isk, that can't be the case. Outposts, Capitol ships, Super Capitols... the list of expensive toys goes on, and most major alliances have plenty of these. No, the fact that people will run or use a meta-tactic comes down to this: all the good pilots with the experience or confidence have either left the game, or joined an entity full of other good pilots with experience and confidence. BoB, MC and Outbreak are accused of being cozy all the time. The fact is we have respect for each other because we're ultimately the same animal, just on different sides of the fence. We love to fight. Look at the time CELES and OB fought BoB in Fountain. FCs would actually contact one another to make sure the gangs clashed, and as a result we all had fun. We need a new generation of combat pilots, people to inspire and to lead. Alliances need to get hungry again and stop slandering one another from inside stations. Grow some courage, have a vision and go out there to achieve that vision. I don't know a single pilot in Outbreak who isn't having a fantastic time playing this game. Combat in EVE comes in all flavours now, it has evolved, you just need to have the hunger to go get it. Outbreak - The Movie
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.25 10:37:00 - [172] Edited by: Ione Hunt on 25/06/2007 10:45:07 Originally by: Dash Ripcock I see where you're coming from Ug, but ultimately I disagree. In some ways it isn't the game that is broken, but the people who play it. mindlles mentions the fact that many alliances will avoid conflict. Too much isk on the line? If what is being said here is true, that there is too much isk, that can't be the case. Outposts, Capitol ships, Super Capitols... the list of expensive toys goes on, and most major alliances have plenty of these. No, the fact that people will run or use a meta-tactic comes down to this: all the good pilots with the experience or confidence have either left the game, or joined an entity full of other good pilots with experience and confidence. BoB, MC and Outbreak are accused of being cozy all the time. The fact is we have respect for each other because we're ultimately the same animal, just on different sides of the fence. We love to fight. Look at the time CELES and OB fought BoB in Fountain. FCs would actually contact one another to make sure the gangs clashed, and as a result we all had fun. We need a new generation of combat pilots, people to inspire and to lead. Alliances need to get hungry again and stop slandering one another from inside stations. Grow some courage, have a vision and go out there to achieve that vision. I don't know a single pilot in Outbreak who isn't having a fantastic time playing this game. Combat in EVE comes in all flavours now, it has evolved, you just need to have the hunger to go get it. QFT. I was about to write something very similar...thanks for saving me a lot of typing Dash Peopl have to STOP worrying about ISK so much, and should concentrate on having FUN...it's a game after all. EDIT Now that I think about it, I have a few things that annoy me about PVP these days. 1) Cloaks are for covops, recons, supercapitals and transport/industrials. Fitting them to any other ship is lame...if you ever warped to a belt just to have that damn Raven cloak on you, you'll understand. Is it just me, or has the amount of cloaking increased? 2) Logging off capital ships when about to lose a fight. Carrier hits 50% armor and initiates self-distruct to deprieve people of a killmail (don't really care about that) and loot...comon' guys, that's like throwing over the poker table because you're about to lose. Those two problems are NOT caused by EVE/CCP, but rather by the players themselves...just like some of the problems you mentioned. People are so fixed on ISK _______________
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.25 10:40:00 - [173] sniffle That was beautiful man..
Krimzin Kane Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.25 10:45:00 - [174] Originally by: Dash Ripcock I see where you're coming from Ug, but ultimately I disagree. In some ways it isn't the game that is broken, but the people who play it. mindlles mentions the fact that many alliances will avoid conflict. Too much isk on the line? If what is being said here is true, that there is too much isk, that can't be the case. Outposts, Capitol ships, Super Capitols... the list of expensive toys goes on, and most major alliances have plenty of these. No, the fact that people will run or use a meta-tactic comes down to this: all the good pilots with the experience or confidence have either left the game, or joined an entity full of other good pilots with experience and confidence. BoB, MC and Outbreak are accused of being cozy all the time. The fact is we have respect for each other because we're ultimately the same animal, just on different sides of the fence. We love to fight. Look at the time CELES and OB fought BoB in Fountain. FCs would actually contact one another to make sure the gangs clashed, and as a result we all had fun. I sniffled too Now, in the spirit of merriment and respect, let's go play some isketch during down time! www.isketch.net in the Eve-Hydra room.
Black Napallm Advanced Mining Men For Hire	Posted - 2007.06.25 11:38:00 - [175] I agree with the OP. I aslo agree with the people that say that we got bored, cause in the end all things get boring. But on top of the fact that the game get boring cause of our nature as humans and our chemistry in the brain, the game mechanics that changed accelerated that process.nullnull I have almost given up eve now, i log in like most of us, just of pure addiction. Eve isnt fun as it used to be and it is all thanks to capital ships, pos warfare, less damage, more tank. I remember the times when 0.0 was really exciting, people were moving expensive **** out of deep 0.0 into empire in their ships, with danger lurking on every jump. Today the use of capital jumpers took that excitement and fun away. Actaully that exodus server idea is the best thing i have heard in a while.
Danti Shidomu Gallente New Career Move	Posted - 2007.06.25 11:42:00 - [176] Edited by: Danti Shidomu on 25/06/2007 11:47:47 Originally by: SwindonBadger Edited by: SwindonBadger on 22/06/2007 23:59:06 its still out there. the fun ur looking for long time ago It was bullsy to take a loan bs around but still very powerfull. who was it from the russians, hellspawn and ... crusher.. yer those guys rocked they fit stabs ect but they would fight way outnumbered and just the 2 of tem roaming in fix space. I recon they would be able to do the stuff they did then now if they wanted to but just differnet ships. Do not forget about Callonious matey, and yes they definately still do it these days :). We all have a blast on those roaming gangs :D. So i'm guessing the OP is slightly of, but then again i myself have not been around for _that_ long. ----- "It is during times of peril that a team must stick together to survive. And it is during times of peace, that such peril must be sought." - Danti Shidomu, on NCM.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.25 11:43:00 - [177] Originally by: Ugluuk It took the carebears 4 months to close down the Privateers.. I generally agree with your post, but not with this bit. It was a blatant misuse on what the wardeccing mechanism was supposed to do. I've seen how privateers worked, and while some of them wanted real pvp, 90% of them were just interested in ganks, and fled from anything that could really shoot back. If you want to do piracy you're supposed to accept what comes with it: standings penalties, and doing it in a zone where players accept the risk of stumbling upon a pirate. High-sec is in essence more of a newbie zone and giant wallmart, and piracy had nothing to do there. Now to return to the original subject, you're spot on, and I really hope factional warfare in empire will bring back some of what we're missing. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
darth solo Insurgency	Posted - 2007.06.25 11:51:00 - [178] the game has changed alot, and many ppl i knew have left, but thats just the way it is. Iv got some nice plans for celes apoc and finally realised we need to adapt to continue having fun and to compete, so expect cool things from us soon, this is prob what we must all do, adapt. Im a battleship pilot and always tried to make sure celes apoc went that path, but evcen iv been forced into getting into cap ships, soething i never really wanted to do. as for the original poster, maybe its time for him to take a break as i recently seen convo logs of him accussing celes apoc of being only gankers so hes obviously not rite in the mind at the moment. d solo.
Entilzah Valen 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.25 11:57:00 - [179] Originally by: Dash Ripcock I see where you're coming from Ug, but ultimately I disagree. In some ways it isn't the game that is broken, but the people who play it. mindlles mentions the fact that many alliances will avoid conflict. Too much isk on the line? If what is being said here is true, that there is too much isk, that can't be the case. Outposts, Capitol ships, Super Capitols... the list of expensive toys goes on, and most major alliances have plenty of these. No, the fact that people will run or use a meta-tactic comes down to this: all the good pilots with the experience or confidence have either left the game, or joined an entity full of other good pilots with experience and confidence. BoB, MC and Outbreak are accused of being cozy all the time. The fact is we have respect for each other because we're ultimately the same animal, just on different sides of the fence. We love to fight. Look at the time CELES and OB fought BoB in Fountain. FCs would actually contact one another to make sure the gangs clashed, and as a result we all had fun. We need a new generation of combat pilots, people to inspire and to lead. Alliances need to get hungry again and stop slandering one another from inside stations. Grow some courage, have a vision and go out there to achieve that vision. I don't know a single pilot in Outbreak who isn't having a fantastic time playing this game. Combat in EVE comes in all flavours now, it has evolved, you just need to have the hunger to go get it. ♥
Eta Carinea Firebirds	Posted - 2007.06.25 13:01:00 - [180] Originally by: Dash Ripcock I see where you're coming from Ug, but ultimately I disagree. In some ways it isn't the game that is broken, but the people who play it. mindlles mentions the fact that many alliances will avoid conflict. Too much isk on the line? If what is being said here is true, that there is too much isk, that can't be the case. Outposts, Capitol ships, Super Capitols... the list of expensive toys goes on, and most major alliances have plenty of these. No, the fact that people will run or use a meta-tactic comes down to this: all the good pilots with the experience or confidence have either left the game, or joined an entity full of other good pilots with experience and confidence. BoB, MC and Outbreak are accused of being cozy all the time. The fact is we have respect for each other because we're ultimately the same animal, just on different sides of the fence. We love to fight. Look at the time CELES and OB fought BoB in Fountain. FCs would actually contact one another to make sure the gangs clashed, and as a result we all had fun. We need a new generation of combat pilots, people to inspire and to lead. Alliances need to get hungry again and stop slandering one another from inside stations. Grow some courage, have a vision and go out there to achieve that vision. I don't know a single pilot in Outbreak who isn't having a fantastic time playing this game. Combat in EVE comes in all flavours now, it has evolved, you just need to have the hunger to go get it. Proverbial Nail on the head springs to mind I have only been playing since June 2005, not long before capitals took to the scene, but long enough to reminisce about the days where the BS ruled the roost. It was definably my most pleasant time in EVE, i was with a good bunch of guy's in a corp called Geotech. I never personally seemed to find that feel for the game in other corporations as i had with Geotech, hence my employment history since. Like Ug i thought it had to do with the changes in the game. Now i agree that part of what i missed was indeed the hunger we had as a corporation back then. Makes me wonder if i have evolved with the game? This is not to say that the corps i have been with since have not been better or worse just different. I was about to leave the game after i left the last corporation in fact the last two corporations. I am not going to leave after thinking about it i am at present in empire assessing my options trying to rediscover what it is that i want out of the game. Hoping that i will rediscover that hunger again. In short it might not be the game it could just be us?

Blitzkrieg Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.06.25 13:17:00 - [181] Originally by: Barry O'mass I want fair fun fights but I donÆt think it is going to happen, so I will just gank ppl instead Welcome to Eve Online
Rehen Im Your God Corp	Posted - 2007.06.25 13:19:00 - [182] Its rly Sad i know of so meany old school players who left due to the changes in the last 2 years the biggest problems according to them are pos's and cap ships. I rly just stoped being fun when the only way you can get a fight out of your enamy was tricking them to come out of there posses or taking them on out numberd and out guned. From what i have seen the old style epic fleet battles lasting 2+ hours with just battle ships is totaly gone interduictors took away the dificalty of scrambling your oponent, carriers at poses removed the risk, atchaly i could go on allday so i wont but from what i read alot of people feel the same way . Death To Caps AND POS
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.06.25 13:38:00 - [183] Originally by: Krugerrand Oh and blobs have always existed, FIX would bring a 30-40 man blob to camp just 1 guy in because he was annoying (hi Ifni ) years ago, people will always defend their space and usually that means bringing as much as they can. Hihi! Thse were the days though. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Morris Falter The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.25 13:51:00 - [184] There's always scope to try new things, bomb round in different setups and different tactics. Cloaking recons and such are evil nasty things, but they are effective. If you play with a brain, you can do ridiculous things with them and get away with it, and if it goes wrong.. well, isk is not hard to come by. I know a few people in my alliance and corp will disagree with me, maybe others will back me up - despite never fighting privateers in empire, the idea was a sound one, and it was a shame it was hit in the way it was. People suicide ganking freighters is not the same as having the heads up that there are war targets in local.. Maybe the 0.0 alliances are complacent. They grow to a certain size and it becomes easy to spot trouble and either avoid it or blob it - the discussion that has been happening regarding local channels and display of people there relates to this... it would be gutsy in the extreme of CCP to make the game as dangerous as it could be if that was taken to its conclusion, namely the removal of local channel except as a chat. Having to use scanners to find ships in space would be the problem - but there are ways around that too. Making ship arrays on POS's mandatory for example - bouncing ships out of shields that are pilotless, or self-destructing empty ships after a short timeout. In summary - the game should be dangerous. Very dangerous.... o/ at friends and colleagues in the thread ;)
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2007.06.25 14:04:00 - [185] 2 years ago there were 12k players online, now there are 36k, of course it's more difficult to have 1vs1 fights. 2 years ago everything was new and thrilling, now you feel like you've done it all. Everyone gets to the point where a game feels 'boring'. For someone it takes 1 year, for someone else maybe 5 years, but we'll all get there sooner or later. Eve has not changed, you remember the 'golden age' of eve because it was YOUR golden age. Now you're "old" and bored, but lot of people are having fun, like you did 2 years ago. You lost it, the fun factor is gone. I suggest a break from Eve. Don't close your account, just take a small break, 2-3 weeks. You may be surpised to find yourself having fun again when you come back. Or maybe you won't miss Eve at all, which means it's time to move on for you. Miklas
Soul Raven Caldari Rage of Angels	Posted - 2007.06.25 14:27:00 - [186] To the op This is the reason i left the game and closed down Rage of Angels, I could not agree more with your observations and comments
FuzzBuzz Caldari Templars of Space Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.25 14:42:00 - [187] is outbreak recruiting, i want to have some fun, made my billions and want to spend it all :) i have a 10m and 24m alt, let me know :P ----- In this game, what becomes popular becomes overpowered, what becomes overpowered gets nerfed. NEXT! endless cycle.
Rimhawk Caldari Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2007.06.25 14:55:00 - [188] Can I have everyone's stuff? Seriously though, I agree with much of what the OP said. I used to be able to go roaming from time to time and do some 1-vs-1 or 3-vs-3 combat, but these days it's camp-ganking all the way... . Rimhawk Vengeance 8 Interceptors "There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't."
Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.25 17:28:00 - [189] Originally by: Soul Raven To the op This is the reason i left the game and closed down Rage of Angels, I could not agree more with your observations and comments It`s a shame Soul.. ROA was a very nice corp to have as a enemy..When we flew up in Geminate we had more than a handful of good fights vs your members.. I am hanging in here just cause the Bydi crew is worth logging in to.. Only thing really that makes me play.. http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Ugluuk
Nymos Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.25 17:57:00 - [190] /signed i started 18 months ago when there was still some of what the OP mentioned. you could go out in a frig and pirate in low sec. there were actually mining ops still. heck, eve was so small i made my first million placing buy orders for trit in kisogo and sell it 1 jump in jita for 50% markup. what fascinated me was that small ships actually had a purpose! it wasn't bigger == better like in any other game. eve was magic. i had a blast in small ship ops. ceptor wolfpacks were the thing. i really shined in tiny gang (2-5) ceptor/recon gangs, but then speed got fubar'd and revelations went live. imo, the hitpoint boost did a lot to make the game less interesting. i elaborated on that in another thread which was trolled by (let's call them random) alts. i can dig it out if anyone cares. there is a problem with small ships that are obsolete nowadays, but the most annoying thing is that you can't go anywhere without a carrier showing up. my last loss: me in phoon. tempest in low sec at station in docking range. he starts shooting. oh a trap, i take it. he goes down very fast. brutix undocks. brutix redocks. 2 BSs undock. thanatos undocks (i think the brutix pilot). i try to unagress, but i forgot to pull back my drones so i was aggressed the whole time. is it really necessary to bring a capital ship for a BS even though i was already outnumbered? i would have taken down at least 2 and i wouldn't have redocked but would have fought. tbh i fight for a challange. i want to see if my skill and my setup can beat those of my opponents. i'm happy being outnumbered, but bring carriers and BS blobs for 5 cepters and then smack how noob those inty pilots are is just lame. people take this game too seriously. it's all about killboard stats. but people have the high end tools at their disposal and they use it. imo, if 10 inties enter your home system i'd hop in a ceptor and hopefully the rest of my corp too and take them on on equal ground. that's the only way to see who really is better and take pride in kills. isn't it about skill? is it just the killmail? now that i got the SP and experience to actually do all the fun stuff i was hoping to do i just cba to log on at all. i enjoyed the last breaths of old school eve and man i miss it. eve is bugged as hell. it's a lagsimulator. more and more uninteresting and bugged content is added. the smack in local and on the forums is off scale. eve feels like a second job. you are forced to log on at a specific time for ops, then wait as long as an hour until the blob is blobbed up and you just die because you got primaried. you have to worry about politics and blues everywhere. in a nutshell, i agree with ugluuk, however, i think it's the player base that is deteriorating and not so much the game. we got more tools now, t2 is more affordable... it should be greater than ever. also, don't forget skillpoint inflation. characters get recycled on the sell forums. you can just buy a high SP character and put him in endgame setups. so, i'm playing lotro for a while until i have decided whether to keep playing eve. i can actually have fun in an MMORPG again, such a relief. battleships are just not fun for me even though i have BS lvl5 and can use t2 large guns :( no, you can't have my stuff. i already know who will get what. and ugluuk would get my officer kitted machariel that i've never even used... -- Every time a carebear dies an angel gets their wings (murder one)

Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:24:00 - [191] Edited by: Ugluuk on 25/06/2007 19:34:00 Originally by: Dash Ripcock I see where you're coming from Ug, but ultimately I disagree. In some ways it isn't the game that is broken, but the people who play it. mindlles mentions the fact that many alliances will avoid conflict. Too much isk on the line? If what is being said here is true, that there is too much isk, that can't be the case. Outposts, Capitol ships, Super Capitols... the list of expensive toys goes on, and most major alliances have plenty of these. No, the fact that people will run or use a meta-tactic comes down to this: all the good pilots with the experience or confidence have either left the game, or joined an entity full of other good pilots with experience and confidence. BoB, MC and Outbreak are accused of being cozy all the time. The fact is we have respect for each other because we're ultimately the same animal, just on different sides of the fence. We love to fight. Look at the time CELES and OB fought BoB in Fountain. FCs would actually contact one another to make sure the gangs clashed, and as a result we all had fun. We need a new generation of combat pilots, people to inspire and to lead. Alliances need to get hungry again and stop slandering one another from inside stations. Grow some courage, have a vision and go out there to achieve that vision. I don't know a single pilot in Outbreak who isn't having a fantastic time playing this game. Combat in EVE comes in all flavours now, it has evolved, you just need to have the hunger to go get it. Before capitals and pos we all stood equal..The biggest ship were the same for all.. Small and rich or Big and rich.. Only thing making a difference was the equipment on the ships.. The small alliance/corp could attack with the right tactics and Eve was a game to be enjoyed by all who did pvp.. You could use covert ops and warp in snipers to make the other gang drop in numbers.. Guerilla was a part of Eve.. Now Big and rich means you will have more capitals and you will have more pos stations to fight from.. They got more ships that cant be insta popped by 30 battleships.. The small alliance eventually have to go in close and fight just to get spanked by carriers who launch drones safely at the pos.. It isn`t the way it should be..It only favours those with numbers and isk.. http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Ugluuk
Ugluuk Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:39:00 - [192] Edited by: Ugluuk on 25/06/2007 19:39:16 When we all had a chance to fly equal sized ships Eve was fun.. The biggest you had was BS..30bs vs 60 bs could be a good fight.. But 5 capitals and 40 bs vs 15 capitals and 40 bs is making the odds on the small alliance grow higher than Don King`s hair.. And when we add the pos that those 15 carrier sit at safely launching drones the odds grow even higher.. Isk favours only the big now..I still miss the days when isk made everyone equal and 40 BS could insta pop a enemy.. http://privateer.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=Ugluuk
SpaceLola	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:41:00 - [193] Amazing post carrying the worries that many of us old players have. I sincerely hope CCP does take into account your comments and re-direct the course of the game. Please, add to the list those NPCing farming cloaker ravens that we find everywhere those days, a disgrace to the Eve PVP community.
Svetlanna The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.25 19:42:00 - [194] Amazing post carrying the worries that many of us old players have. I sincerely hope CCP does take into account your comments and re-direct the course of the game. Please, add to the list those NPCing farming cloaker ravens that we find everywhere those days, a disgrace to the Eve PVP community.
agent apple Caldari KSI	Posted - 2007.06.25 20:02:00 - [195] signed Agree entirely with the OP, I'm all for change and evolution but the games simply not as fun as it once was
Mad Mackem E X O D U S	Posted - 2007.06.25 21:01:00 - [196] Agree with everything op said. If CCP ever removes buying time card's with isk, myself and many others would quit i believe. Regards
Meryth E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.06.25 22:41:00 - [197] Agreed on all counts with the original poster. EVE has turned into the most realistic MMORPG to date. That's an achievement, but the fun is gone. EVE can be described as Microsoft Online. No need to be brave, no need to be creative, just have the biggest guns, be efficient at management and sleep little. Where are the true PvP games? Age of Conan this fall, Warhammer next year, who knows... The funny thing is that players asked for titans and idiotic swords +47. Now it's too late, the game has lost the fun factor and won't recover from the huge mistakes of PoS and capitals.
Raneru Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.06.25 23:57:00 - [198] Edited by: Raneru on 25/06/2007 23:58:24 Totally agree with OP and Nymos. I miss the time when ceptors , AFs and frigs were popular . The ceptor has been relegated to tackler, T1 frigs to suicide tacklers and the poor AF is too slow to keep out of danger and too small to take a pounding and so is completely redundant. Exodus with the missile changes + warp to 0 would be perfect for me.
Minigin Ganja Labs	Posted - 2007.06.26 00:15:00 - [199] whats eve? i thought this was the isketch forums? MINIGIN! now posting in "limegreen"
Valhalior Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.26 10:40:00 - [200] It's all a part of "Need for money" (TM) initiative. And also a way which every online game is going to go sooner or later. There always must be a way to keep old players online (e.g. by giving them new skills and uber ships to fly) and to give new players any chance to compete with old ones by introducing different ways to specialize their characters. Anyway remember it's a buiseness so Bob from marketing is more important than Joey from development and primary goal is to won't allow it sink.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired Beagle

Oosel Nightmare Holdings Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:01:00 - [201] Originally by: Mindlles I really think its a 2 sided thing really. Todays eve has alot more deapth, fun ships, better balance then when i started this game 2003 :P. Ppl have also learned to play the game alot more, wich makes it funnier. Tho todays eve with all its futures has also created some problems. Back in the days, does that lived in 0.0 where hardknocked, they had to be. If they didnt form up and fight as soon a hostile gang entered system, the hostiles could just take over the station. "no posses, no sov and ****". And ppl actully had to defend them self at all cost, all the time. So if u brought a roaming gang off bs into a prime system u could cause some dmg by taking down the shilds on the station and controll it. Just aswhell the defenders really had to form up and fight. Today, a big part off the 0.0 ppl live in controlled space, and just stay docked and refuse to fight at all cost. And they only need to worry if their poses get shoot at, and then they just use their trillions off naped friends to blob the system :/. Wich will not make the players anny better at the fine art off pvp =(. Sure we have gotten the abilty to shoot station service now, we see how that turn out =). But still. And as ugluuk said, about unfair fights. Agree. Also the fact, when u fight some in eve - Oki we have about the same - who will go to the gate and show themself? And lets get rolling "kisses to bob". Then when u fight some ppl - ur gang is 30, enemy gang 60 with another 50 one jump out. And they go hide in posses and refuse to show themself. My questoin to does fc is what are u thinking? Ur gang will never be anny better if they dont get to fight, u will never be anny better as a pvper either. And when someone comes around that can kill ur posses u die very fast. Just look at d2. They where so big and bad,, so big and bad when they had 150vs 50. they refused to jump thrue a gate against outbreak and jumpbridge them in to a pos. 2 months later mc came and toke their space in a hearthbeat.. And sad part is, i see every other alliance doing the samethings. Then also, who can forget, about the cloaked fleets, ppl dont dare to fight, and i can countine for ever, ppl logging when u enter their system and so on. Oki im drifting off, but i guess my opion is, some ppl are getting worse at the game, ppl care to much about stats and numbers, and to little about the fun and to learn. Also some parts that have been implanted have been just bad, and some great,"nerf off stabs!!". T2 ships!!. And so on :P mind your insight almost want to make me fire my lasers in anger in a piratical way.........maybe i should give up my carebear ways... you are right though i had more in in eve years ago when i was buckaroo'ing around fountain with the likes of you
Keldjos Falzir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:25:00 - [202] What I find a little disengenuous about what you guys are saying is that somehow capital ships are meant for 'noobs'. Think about that for a second, Carriers, Motherships, Doomsdaying Titans, Outposts, POSes... none of these things are at all accessable to new players, which is what's killing the game. A new player in EvE mostly has to **** on his thumbs training skills and running crappy empire missions for three to six months before getting to any of the really cool content in the game, and by then they're so used to scrimping and saving and wallowing in Empire space, they don't want to risk thier ships. The real problem is that EvE is terribly unfriendly to new players.
Dash Ripcock 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:27:00 - [203] People keep talking about Carriers and Dreads being the death of 0.0 space, with smaller entities unable to compete. Four of our guys downed a well-fitted Thanatos with three Myrmidons and a Falcon the other day. Go figure! Outbreak - The Movie
Kuentai Moloko.	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:33:00 - [204] Edited by: Kuentai on 26/06/2007 11:39:47 Originally by: Plim Often it is a game of chance now rather than skill. Bingo Or alternatively you could argue that the time of just wandering out and getting a good fight is over in terms of gangs. Now you just have to study your enemy more so that you know what the can field and prepare. Problem is an awful lot of fcs are lazy and end up just bringing the same ol' cookie cutter fleet because they can't be bothered to fit specifically for an enemy. There are an awful lot of different corps in this thread looking for good fair fights though, why not sort out a thread in which you can arrange fair fights? --------------- "The good man has few enemies, but the ruthless... None."
Adamantium Beams Section XIII	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:44:00 - [205] Edited by: Adamantium Beams on 26/06/2007 11:43:42 Remove JC, Cap ship and Local for one week and let's play
Plague Black 4S Corporation	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:51:00 - [206] Eve has changed all right... Lag was never worse
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.26 11:59:00 - [207] Edited by: welsh wizard on 26/06/2007 11:58:30 You're right Dash, pvp'ers naturally gravitate towards their own kind which unfortunately leaves little room for decent long term competition, we reap what we sow. A sad state of affairs tbh.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.26 12:34:00 - [208] Originally by: Kuentai There are an awful lot of different corps in this thread looking for good fair fights though, why not sort out a thread in which you can arrange fair fights? yawn that takes the fun out of it pvp is best when its hahah lets go! arranged fights are not, there more like they are in XXX we must bring YYY+Z XXX whines for @ YYY+Z for bringing Z to the fight & bring counter setups snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Harisdrop Gallente Vindicate and Deliverance	Posted - 2007.06.26 12:52:00 - [209] Quote: In short it might not be the game it could just be us? I have said this game from the onset was about the players. EVE is a toolbox set up by CCP. THey probably have backing from governments. I think what we have here is not that what we have ingame is wrong but how the tools we have has started to challenge most players on how to use them. Thinking of multi billion corps/Alliances and the control of thousands of players will become over whelming. I believe in 10 years games will get people elected to office. There will be millions online. EVE is not the end game its only starting. What if games become more of real life?
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.26 13:12:00 - [210] A lot of things happened, not a single one. Condensation of the more blood thristy PVPers in certain groups and alliances being too big, WTZ (changing the side of gate where engagements happens and demanding bubbles, and mostly importan, making much faster and easier to put huge number of players to same location and forum uber blob) all combined they brought the death of old combat. Removal of WTZ(and instas) and increasing travel time would be a great way to make harder to blob. reduce capital ships HP back to reasonable levels would boost BS role. Heavily diminishing HP of POS shields , station services and POS structures would boost a lot small gangs. Give dreads the capability of effectively fight smaller ships in a devastating way (maybe a tier 2 dread focused on that) would diminish the need of huge blobs of escort (send the rest of fleet to attack other thing.. see previous suggestion). Slowing the get in warp time of all ships would increase a lot the number of successfull engagements (drop acceleration of all ships to half!) And now a suggestion a bit more complicated. Let alliances with Sov 3 setup traffic control for gates on.. to limit for example t o max of 10 ship jumping at a time, then 2 min interval until next group can jump. That would prevent huge blob movments. And make small gangs a much better option. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Kuentai Moloko.	Posted - 2007.06.26 15:35:00 - [211] Edited by: Kuentai on 26/06/2007 15:35:30 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Removal of WTZ(and instas) and increasing travel time would be a great way to make harder to blob. In conjunction with removing dictors this would be fair. It would remove the massive bs gang chasing your little inty gang syndrome. Also it would take more effort to stage a massive operation against another alliance (reducing massive alliance ***small alliance syndrome) Originally by:** Kagura Nikon Heavily diminishing HP of POS shields , station services and POS structures would boost a lot small gangs. Just means carriers have less to remote rep and its easier for people to irritate each other. Originally by: Kagura Nikon Give dreads the capability of effectively fight smaller ships in a devastating way (maybe a tier 2 dread focused on that) would diminish the need of huge blobs of escort (send the rest of fleet to attack other thing.. see previous suggestion). No this just means the fleet blob gets even more powerful, have you ever seen what a dread + huginn does to fleets? Besides it rarely makes more sense to split the fleet up than to take things out one at a time with the entire force. Originally by: Kagura Nikon Slowing the get in warp time of all ships would increase a lot the number of successfull engagements (drop acceleration of all ships to half!) Uh, this doesn't do anything, if all ships are slowed down nothing changes. 'if everyone is special, no one is special' Originally by: Kagura Nikon And now a suggestion a bit more complicated. Let alliances with Sov 3 setup traffic control for gates on.. to limit for example t o max of 10 ship jumping at a time, then 2 min interval until next group can jump. That would prevent huge blob movments. And make small gangs a much better option. This just means when your trying to take a system your enemy has to jump into your 200 man fleet 10 at a time, killing any and all chances of taking a system. Remember you need to think EVE = sandbox. The more restrictive it gets, the more we head towards 'not another wow mmo'. --------------- "The good man has few enemies, but the ruthless... None."
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.26 15:42:00 - [212] Originally by: Kuentai Edited by: Kuentai on 26/06/2007 15:35:30 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Removal of WTZ(and instas) and increasing travel time would be a great way to make harder to blob. In conjunction with removing dictors this would be fair. It would remove the massive bs gang chasing your little inty gang syndrome. Also it would take more effort to stage a massive operation against another alliance (reducing massive alliance ***small alliance syndrome) Originally by:** Kagura Nikon Heavily diminishing HP of POS shields , station services and POS structures would boost a lot small gangs. Just means carriers have less to remote rep and its easier for people to irritate each other. Originally by: Kagura Nikon Give dreads the capability of effectively fight smaller ships in a devastating way (maybe a tier 2 dread focused on that) would diminish the need of huge blobs of escort (send the rest of fleet to attack other thing.. see previous suggestion). No this just means the fleet blob gets even more powerful, have you ever seen what a dread + huginn does to fleets? Besides it rarely makes more sense to split the fleet up than to take things out one at a time with the entire force. Originally by: Kagura Nikon Slowing the get in warp time of all ships would increase a lot the number of successfull engagements (drop acceleration of all ships to half!) Uh, this doesn't do anything, if all ships are slowed down nothing changes. 'if everyone is special, no one is special' Originally by: Kagura Nikon And now a suggestion a bit more complicated. Let alliances with Sov 3 setup traffic control for gates on.. to limit for example t o max of 10 ship jumping at a time, then 2 min interval until next group can jump. That would prevent huge blob movments. And make small gangs a much better option. This just means when your trying to take a system your enemy has to jump into your 200 man fleet 10 at a time, killing any and all chances of taking a system. Remember you need to think EVE = sandbox. The more restrictive it gets, the more we head towards 'not another wow mmo'. Think you didnt got the idea. This proposals are to make zero negative effect on small gangs. And make small gangs usefull. And make possible to tackle people (that is why ships go to warp slower in my model) Nowadays the only type of combat that exist is Gate bubbles gankign smaller force. Or huge blob vs blob lag fest. The traffic control would make blob movment impossible so do not et there with a blob. Go with a 5 amn fleet.. so you pass fast less chance for gate camps. then you go attack statiosn services that must have reduced HP count to be valid targets for such small gang. Etc.. All the proposals are exaclty to make one statemwent of yours become false: "Besides it rarely makes more sense to split the fleet up than to take things out one at a time with the entire force." That concept sucks and must change! If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Octavio Santillian Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.06.26 15:48:00 - [213] Game design is a very complex thing, and itÆs no easy task to deal with the subject both comprehensively and concisely. IÆll try to lean toward concisely. Though IÆm not going to deal with this issue, it must be said that it is a struggle to balance the competing desires of players: power-gamers vs the causal players; care-bears vs the PvPers; and those who will get bored without new content vs those who will leave if there is too much change. As the game gains a wider base of players, the each group lobby for what they want out of the game and itÆs a difficult task to appease them all. Other issues that have been mentioned are overcrowding, and the inevitable accumulation of wealth and power. My point will concern pitfalls of an open ended game. Ultimately people learn to exploit the game. By exploit I donÆt mean cheat per se, but use game and social mechanics to their favor. ItÆs nanve to thing that people will, by and large, just play fair and fight in nice even numbers with equivalent ship types. This presents a particular difficulty to Eve because of the quasi-reality, fluidity and open-endedness of its rule set. Without artificial game mechanics designed to force fair fights, they just ainÆt going to happen with any frequency especially as the game matures and the player base increases (whether or not the rules change). So to me, the question becomes do we want game mechanics that force fair fights? IÆll warrant that without them, you can just forget about fair fights as a regular occurrence. Sure they will happen by chance, but they will not be the norm. If the answer is yes, what form should they take? IÆll offer an example off the top of my head. I AM NOT ENDORSING THIS IDEA; I am simply giving a somewhat ludicrous example of what IÆm talking about. Cut gang size to 5 people max. Once combat starts between two gangs, only ships in those two gangs can engage each other. Again, this is not a game mechanic I am suggesting, it would never work in Eve and cause all kinds of insane difficulties for larger scale fights. ItÆs just a random example of the kind of artificial controls one can use to force more fair fights. In other games you find these kinds of mechanics in the form of PvP arenas, mini-games, PvP flags, etc. Eve already has a lot of these, the best of which is the security status system.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.06.26 19:11:00 - [214] Edited by: Death Kill on 26/06/2007 19:13:32 Originally by: Ugluuk What is Eve turning into? Too friendly. The stacking nerf was the first blow to individualism. We used to have movies such as the ones made by zelota, where people pwned battleships solo in a cruiser. Today this is impossible because the battleship can tank a cruiser for 10 hours, enough time for his blob to arrive. Solo pvp is a dead horse being flogged by the community.
Cardice Makar Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.06.26 20:06:00 - [215] The past, is in the past. We keep it there for nostalgic purposes. I, too, at times wish that we could go back to the way things were. But then I realize that thinking like that is foolish at best. First, I'd like to apologize for the wall of text. If the game had stayed the same since Exodus, nothing added, nothing removed, just bugs fixed, people would have gotten bored fairly quickly. Infact, sometime during S.Genesis I took a break for this exact reason... I had no goals anymore. I was bored. The most interesting thing I could think up was going out and hunting people in lowsec and that bored me. New content drives players. The thing is, even with the content being the same, there would have still been an influx of new players. This fact alone changes the game significantly. The universe isn't what it once was, and thus the game has changed. The game we play now isn't the 10k subscriber, "2k online, wow, busy night" game that we used to play. There are now commonly 20,000k plus players online at any given time. If you went back to the way things were, the game would die. You can remember any era in the past with fondness. You can look at American history in the 60's with fondness if you'd like, some people do. They remember an era of big cars and big folk with big jobs, etc; that society could not exist today. With the advances that we've had, a change of mentality has occurred as well. If you took all the people in the world and put them back in the 1960's, they wouldn't tolerate it. Something similar has occurred in EVE. In EVE you have a 1/10th the time to evolve and adapt. Over the last four years, we've evolved so quickly that the people playing seem bored and ancient because they can't keep up with the times [I am one, I know it, I don't mean to insult anyone]. But the only thing you can possibly do is try. The younger players will always have an advantage in that sense, as they learn the playing field in it's updated form. They'll never have to concern themselves with dual-mwd-settups or 8xheatsink gankageddons, they just know what tools they have now. The stakes today are hugely higher than they've ever been in the past, and the big teams out there are the ones who profit off of it. A solo player today is a dead player because of this. Call it negative, call it positive, it doesn't matter at all. The only constant out there is Change. We all have to live with it together. The game is not the same game as it used to be. Due to the changes, the people who have joined, the opportunities given to us, it will never be the same again. Just like we can't have the '50s or '60s again. My best suggestion is to keep the nostalgic feeling, use it as a badge of honour and find like-minded people. We're out there, we play the game every day. We have jobs, we have lives, we can't dedicate 23/7 to playing EVE, yet we still manage to have fun. I wish you the best, and hope you have the chance to grow and adapt in EVE yet again.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.06.26 20:20:00 - [216] Nostalgia never brings anything good. The game is more complex and now it is not only about ganking and small raid parties anymore. They are still viable but not always and not anywhere. Understand that ganking is not exactly what everybody that plays wants to do. If you like it, fine, find your way into making it efficiently. If you prefer to conquer space and fight for sovereighty there is a place for you. Especially now with the new extended sovereignty If you want to pursue production and mining activities you can do it as well, no matter how gankers may hate you for carebearing there is always ways to outsmart them. Basically eve is a complex system that allows people to do whatever they want as long as they are smart enough to do it well. The fact that some activities are not as easy to do as they were a few years back is just a hint that those activities were too easy to be done and restricted the possibilities of the game. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Berowe Amarr Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse	Posted - 2007.06.26 20:50:00 - [217] Ten bucks says the OP was here on these forums way back in the 'good ole days' complaining about things just as dramatically. "Zomg eve sucks I'm gonna go play SWG/DAOC/anarchy online!" I don't understand the argument, as I don't even have time to finish an agent mission before beddytime let alone go POS bowling. Anyway I sign the "implement cap-ship killer ships/weapons" petition. Let's get a little x-wing minigame where you zoom into a carrier's exhaust port and do naughty things like leave all the toilet seats up peace be the journey
Octavio Santillian Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.06.26 21:09:00 - [218] Well not all of us are clamoring for a halt to change or a return to the past, we just feel that are less options for PvP not more. We just want more opportunity to have some fun, reasonably fair PvP without making the game a life commitment. The game has, however, ceased being about a fun contest of skill and savvy. Its only about winning, even if winning is no fun. IÆve fallen into it; our gangs (usually 8 to 15 mates) are usually only getting gank kills now-a-days. If you stick around to fight an equal sized gang (which is hard to find), local shoots up to 40 hostiles and carriers jump in before the fight comes to fruition. If IÆm soloing itÆs the same thing, you can only risk killing something if you can kill it quickly. I end up passing up the challenging me vs 2 or 3 fights I used to risk, because the risk of it turning into a me vs 10 fight is too high. IÆm not super old, but IÆve done the large alliance thing and it was fun before POS warfare. Now itÆs drudgery and IÆve moved away from it. I donÆt begrudge anyone who finds it fun, but I personally wonÆt plan my day around when a POS is coming out reinforced. Just because I donÆt want to do that, it shouldnÆt mean I have no place in the game anymore. Now all this is overstating it a bit, I guess. I still have fun, but a lot of the charm has left the game, and IÆm not convinced whatÆs replaced it is better.
ArmyOfMe Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.06.26 21:34:00 - [219] Originally by: Entschlossen Originally by: Grytok We'd also get rid of Capitals camping in Low-Sec, shooting n00bs out of their frigates. Post/mail me some system names where lonely/a few capitals are camping in low sec, and i am shure that will make me smile. Can i send you to the systems moms are camping and still see if you smile as they jump away?
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers	Posted - 2007.06.26 22:17:00 - [220] Originally by: Octavio Santillian Well not all of us are clamoring for a halt to change or a return to the past, we just feel that are less options for PvP not more. We just want more opportunity to have some fun, reasonably fair PvP without making the game a life commitment. The game has, however, ceased being about a fun contest of skill and savvy. Its only about winning, even if winning is no fun. IÆve fallen into it; our gangs (usually 8 to 15 mates) are usually only getting gank kills now-a-days. If you stick around to fight an equal sized gang (which is hard to find), local shoots up to 40 hostiles and carriers jump in before the fight comes to fruition. If IÆm soloing itÆs the same thing, you can only risk killing something if you can kill it quickly. I end up passing up the challenging me vs 2 or 3 fights I used to risk, because the risk of it turning into a me vs 10 fight is too high. IÆm not super old, but IÆve done the large alliance thing and it was fun before POS warfare. Now itÆs drudgery and IÆve moved away from it. I donÆt begrudge anyone who finds it fun, but I personally wonÆt plan my day around when a POS is coming out reinforced. Just because I donÆt want to do that, it shouldnÆt mean I have no place in the game anymore. Now all this is overstating it a bit, I guess. I still have fun, but a lot of the charm has left the game, and IÆm not convinced whatÆs replaced it is better. Qft. I've been playing a little over a year now and despite the good chages like the stab nerf or even the LP store it seems the main point of this game, PvP, is getting forced into a narrower focus. The range for solo and small gang PvP is much more limited.

SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.26 22:21:00 - [221] just give us an exodus sever done & dusted snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Daedal Virtu GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.06.27 00:07:00 - [222] Edited by: Daedal Virtu on 27/06/2007 00:08:12 While im not so old, even I see the difference. Make capital ships do reduced damage based on the size of their target, so if they are shooting at a BS, they only do the damage of a BS. That way they are only really hitting large ships for real damage. IE Make fighters and dread highslots have huge firing solutions and bad tracking so that smaller ships only take a fraction of the damage, or none at all. Even to the battleship stage. This would make three different forms of combat that could be developed individually. Ship to Ship, Capital to Capital, and Capital to Station/POS. Making stations into fortresses and other developments planned would still work in with this but allow for gang warfare to still exist without a cap ship jumping in and dominating the field. This means you need cap ships to fight off fleets to protect assets in space and outposts, but your fleet can fly around and engage in combat without needing to have their own capital backup. As it stands, fighting in 0.0 is suicide without at least one carrier ready to join the party. That and remove warp to 0, insta bookmarks and add in a warp to 10, or even 5. Give a small window for attack that you could run through or try to fight. If your running you have stabs and MWD anyway, if your not then you should be able to fight them off for the 2.5km you need to make it to the gate. Rule of Three Peon or maybe not...:P <No tree's were harmed during this transmission. However, a great number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced>
Myndpyre Ryche Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.06.27 04:07:00 - [223] The more the game evolves the less the battle relies on personal skill and the more it relies on organization and logistics. For myself, I could not possibly be more bored with the current state of the game. In the entire northern contract, I had fun actually less than 5 times, the rest of the time I was actually playing another massive online game on my main computer, and EvE on my secondary computer. When you need to be playing something else, or doing something else in what should be the biggest fights in the history of the game, it is time that the game review itself, it's overall direction, and make changes.
Reverend William Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 04:45:00 - [224] I'm not even a year old yet, but I tend to agree with the sentiments on capital ships being a little boring. I still see plenty of roaming gang fun, but finding solo targets who are willing to fight is incredibly difficult. Obviously I have no idea what it would've been like back then, but every gamer tends to look through rose colored glasses at the earlier times in the game, and I don't see why this situation is any different. That having been said, I'd love to find more solo/small-gang pvp than I'm currently finding. And less carriers/moms. But you absolutely cannot beat the thrill of the giant fights. Solo pvp is a rush, and the reason I play this game primarily, but the huge fights are just.. wow. You can't get that anyplace else.
raVn666 Dark Interstellar Crime Cartel	Posted - 2007.06.27 04:48:00 - [225] Edited by: raVn666 on 27/06/2007 04:47:37 Well spoken Ugluuk and exactly the reason why I , and so many other have gone inactive or left the game for good, Eve is just not the same game anymore, i would hardly call it a pvp game. Its become more about strategic and economics than a good pvp game. Though , no game have come up against eve pvp-vise, or what eve used to be. And damn i miss it! Running around in small gangs looking for good fights, Or taking a rax or a megathron , and just go out looking for someone to kill or randsom. And if ccp by any chance should open a exodus server or a pvp-server without the capitol ships , I would without doubt start playing again , and move my char to that server. Though , i doubht that that ever would happen. FightClub TQ Info
Phonix Fate.	Posted - 2007.06.27 09:49:00 - [226] Sad to see EVE become a chat program for me :( I login and talk to friends and change skills. I tried comming back a few weeks ago. Went out hunting and got a Tristan kill after 4 hours. I will terminate my character soon if CCP keeps heading this way with a PVP oriented game. I loved it more than all other games in the industry. Just miss Castor days and all the good old vets quit.. I miss m0o and GNW era, but im pretty damn sure EVE will never but what it use to be. <3 the people that new me. Miss the people that quit -Phonix CEO of Fate
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:04:00 - [227] Originally by: Phonix Sad to see EVE become a chat program for me :( I login and talk to friends and change skills. I tried comming back a few weeks ago. Went out hunting and got a Tristan kill after 4 hours. You must be doing something very wrong.
Hyllekjeks Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:21:00 - [228] As much as I agree, I think your underestimating your own career. I mean first time I tried pvp the adrenaline was insane. I sat there shaking so much I allmost could'nt hit the buttons. And when I got attacked, damn that pannic. But as you start to do pvp as a regular thing, you become hard core and adrenaline is a rare thing. I havent had a rush in ages before I tried warping my carrier on top of a fleet. I dont know if it was the 1,5billion at stake or just the amounth of targets blinking red but... So you could say it's the new addons that killed this game, but in my opinion its just you, and me and a lot of other that have become stone cold killer. If you need the rush back, forget the npcers and try fighting fleets with carriers. Ill guaranty that will get your heart beating again
Phonix Fate.	Posted - 2007.06.27 10:37:00 - [229] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phonix Sad to see EVE become a chat program for me :( I login and talk to friends and change skills. I tried comming back a few weeks ago. Went out hunting and got a Tristan kill after 4 hours. You must be doing something very wrong. I more experience in eve than you would know. Everyone and there mother flies with 10+ or a cloak so GG. CEO of Fate
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:05:00 - [230] Originally by: Phonix Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phonix Sad to see EVE become a chat program for me :( I login and talk to friends and change skills. I tried comming back a few weeks ago. Went out hunting and got a Tristan kill after 4 hours. You must be doing something very wrong. I more experience in eve than you would know. Everyone and there mother flies with 10+ or a cloak so GG. fight those 10+ then? there are alot of targets the problem is they wont come out unless they are confident in their blob thats not just because "eve has changed" but because a lot of the new players that joined are moving their first steps in 0.0 hence they lack the experience and sp to fight on even terms but it doesnt mean you cant engage them outnumbered - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!

SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:08:00 - [231] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phonix Sad to see EVE become a chat program for me :( I login and talk to friends and change skills. I tried comming back a few weeks ago. Went out hunting and got a Tristan kill after 4 hours. You must be doing something very wrong. I loled the only way to get anything decent solo is muti account & hunt mission runners 1.account prober 2.account lanchais 3.account megat even then you have 2 get lucky to probe them, lucky to get them 60k or under & lucky if they dont have stabs. Any other fight i have found to be omg wtf blob roaming you only find only mission runners & blobs The blob dosent bother me 3v1s 4v1s etc in most cases i give it a go. but to even find a group under 5 these days is hard & as for 1vs1 fights the closet ive got latey is kill the bait before the rest arrive I want the days back when I can jump in rax go to mara & find another rax in the frist belt snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:10:00 - [232] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig but it doesnt mean you cant engage them outnumbered so what u want us to fight a 10v1? i would if it was cusier gang but when was the last time you saw 1 of those... snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:17:00 - [233] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: Phonix Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Phonix Sad to see EVE become a chat program for me :( I login and talk to friends and change skills. I tried comming back a few weeks ago. Went out hunting and got a Tristan kill after 4 hours. You must be doing something very wrong. I more experience in eve than you would know. Everyone and there mother flies with 10+ or a cloak so GG. fight those 10+ then? there are alot of targets the problem is they wont come out unless they are confident in their blob thats not just because "eve has changed" but because a lot of the new players that joined are moving their first steps in 0.0 hence they lack the experience and sp to fight on even terms but it doesnt mean you cant engage them outnumbered - Gob true.. true. But the more CCP focus on makign the game more ACHIEVBLE in small gangs the more combats wil happen. On my epxerience , the bottleneck of combats in 0.0 is the gang forming proccess both to attack and coutner attack. On that time dozen cobmat oportunities are lost. The "move stuff outside POS"was a great start. As well the outpost services. But they have too many HP so people need to blbo 100 ships to kill them in less than 2 hours. That is coutner fun, its bad for server lag, bad for everyone. I thing small scale success should be achievable within 1 hour with a 10-15 man gang. Could do that making the small guns in the POS easier to kill. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.27 11:47:00 - [234] Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig but it doesnt mean you cant engage them outnumbered so what u want us to fight a 10v1? i would if it was cusier gang but when was the last time you saw 1 of those... I saw a cruiser gang yesterday evening. - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.27 12:03:00 - [235] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig but it doesnt mean you cant engage them outnumbered so what u want us to fight a 10v1? i would if it was cusier gang but when was the last time you saw 1 of those... I saw a cruiser gang yesterday evening. who, where, how many snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Evil Pookie BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.27 12:04:00 - [236] suck it up princess and fight outnumbered!
Black Napallm Advanced Mining Men For Hire	Posted - 2007.06.27 12:20:00 - [237] Originally by: Phonix Sad to see EVE become a chat program for me :( I login and talk to friends and change skills. I tried comming back a few weeks ago. Went out hunting and got a Tristan kill after 4 hours. I will terminate my character soon if CCP keeps heading this way with a PVP oriented game. I loved it more than all other games in the industry. Just miss Castor days and all the good old vets quit.. I miss m0o and GNW era, but im pretty damn sure EVE will never but what it use to be. <3 the people that new me. Miss the people that quit -Phonix Yeah, I remember those days. Im on the edge to terminate my character myself. I have dont it before ( on different reason and where i felt i would miss something when i quit ) but now I see at the future in eve and it looks dark. So terminating my characters wont be hard. Most of us know it, but ill say it; eve wont be fun again as it used to be. BTW Hi Phonix \o/ Deja..
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.27 12:27:00 - [238] Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig but it doesnt mean you cant engage them outnumbered so what u want us to fight a 10v1? i would if it was cusier gang but when was the last time you saw 1 of those... I saw a cruiser gang yesterday evening. who, where, how many some resident corp, northern stain, 18 Originally by: Evil Pookie suck it up princess and fight outnumbered! QFT - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.27 13:27:00 - [239] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig but it doesnt mean you cant engage them outnumbered so what u want us to fight a 10v1? i would if it was cusier gang but when was the last time you saw 1 of those... I saw a cruiser gang yesterday evening. who, where, how many some resident corp, northern stain, 18 18v1 bs vs 18 crusiers? you want people to fight 18v1 i take it you would be on the 18 side snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.27 14:19:00 - [240] Sasripper and why the hell should the game allow the guy in the single BS to murder 18 people? Ofc when i say fight outnumbered I dont mean fighting ANY engagement you find - you choose a shiptype that allows you to be selective with engagements until you find one that will be "doable". Also I thought u meant small gangs not solo. Solo BS was always limited in its engagements even in the old days so I dont understand the whining :s - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!

chinefoo	Posted - 2007.06.27 15:25:00 - [241] Well to be honest im a old beta tester for this game. and yes its changed for the worse, the game used to be a fun place to play and fight make isk build stuff. those days are gone. Dont think so ? how many players have thier main char trained in a dungon given a mass of skill points >? ccp knows the changes were not what they wanted hence the new player buffer. the new ships i dont think make the game better it makes it a drag 40 min to organize anything goin solo just hand your ship to anyone cause its gonna go boom this game was a alternative to earth and beyond. due to its ability to pvp, now the games all about alliances sry to say but i dont play anymore i log in switch a skill ask to see whats up snap you cant even comunicate in game anymore you need ts irc or ccp horribly made chat :which still dont work: as far as titans and so forth i think its all good now what ccp needs to do is make it so we can mine and or npc to make isk see the issue is such mining and ratting stayed the same ships and skills shot up in price!
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.06.27 15:31:00 - [242] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Sasripper and why the hell should the game allow the guy in the single BS to murder 18 people? Well, if the reason would be, that the one, who's pulling it off has superiour understanding of the game and just plays better, then I wouldn't mind him ripping a gang apart solo, even if it's my gang. I mean that is, what pvp is meant to be about, not necessarily solo, but it can also be applied to heavily outnumbered gangs. If I remember it right, there was even an interview or a devblog, where someone said that they want to make player skill more important in comparison to char skill. I think it was about micro-managment and heat. ( Dunno, I rather prefer, if my gang gets pwn'ed by a few, who play god-like than by a blob. )
Dionisius Gallente Vindictive Behavior THE H0RDE	Posted - 2007.06.27 15:49:00 - [243] Actually some videos and some corp mates inspired me to go and try solo pew pew. I still do it alot these days but i¦m already training an alt for carebearing in those boring moments were you are camped by 1000000000000 people and their mother. The game is evolving ( or not ) into this, you shoot one guy...if you do, and that guy has the pack all 2 or 3 jumps away waiting to gank you. Takes no effort, no skill, and its pretty much ... duuh _______________________ Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire.
Crax McGee Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.06.27 15:57:00 - [244] CORRECT! and its all people talk about in eve now FIX POS WAR FARE.. isntead of making anti blob warefare and stuff they should make PRO FIGHT things.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.27 16:10:00 - [245] Originally by: Plutoinum ( Dunno, I rather prefer, if my gang gets pwn'ed by a few, who play god-like than by a blob. ) thats still happens, all you need is range and a dictor - but I think the folks in this thread are mostly complaining they cant undock their short range boats and engage in a solo spree without getting blobbed - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.27 16:28:00 - [246] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig thats still happens, all you need is range and a dictor - but I think the folks in this thread are mostly complaining they cant undock their short range boats and engage in a solo spree without getting blobbed Go join BE And if you paid attention this tread about the diteration of pvp in eve ie "short range boats and engage in a solo spree without getting blobbed" you didnt get blobed a year ago. By a group of cowards sitting 40k of gate bubbling it because they dont want to risk there ships >20k Why is the whole risk reward ratio totaly borked for pvp had a recent idea realting to number of people attacking a ship reflects in its ammount of loot droped rather than the luck based systeam at present. Ie if you blob some above a certain point nothing would survie not even a wreak as it would make logical sense. Where as if 1 person was to kill 90% of the loot would survie and so on snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.27 16:31:00 - [247] Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig thats still happens, all you need is range and a dictor - but I think the folks in this thread are mostly complaining they cant undock their short range boats and engage in a solo spree without getting blobbed Go join BE And if you paid attention this tread about the diteration of pvp in eve ie "short range boats and engage in a solo spree without getting blobbed" you didnt get blobed a year ago. hang on - are you saying you didnt get blobbed a year ago? - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!
Evil Pookie BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.06.27 16:39:00 - [248] Adapt or ****ing die! I don't really care which you choose but for the love of sweet baby jebus on a rubber cross stop crying about it!
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.27 16:49:00 - [249] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig hang on - are you saying you didnt get blobbed a year ago? yes no where near to the same degree & a year ago they were easier to kill too snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
M3GATRON Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.06.27 16:51:00 - [250] Originally by: Ugluuk deep thoughts on pvp yeah it's a shame

Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.27 16:55:00 - [251] Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig hang on - are you saying you didnt get blobbed a year ago? yes no where near to the same degree & a year ago they were easier to kill too 1. bollox - you got blobbed last year and u got blobbed 2 years ago 2. subscriptions and members online went up like fivefold, that means more people in space and more people looking to blob you. It has nothing to do with game mechanics - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.27 16:58:00 - [252] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig 1. bollox - you got blobbed last year and u got blobbed 2 years ago 2. subscriptions and members online went up like fivefold, that means more people in space and more people looking to blob you. It has nothing to do with game mechanics 1. there were less blobs & were easyer to get away from 2. who said anything about game mechanics but fighting the blob was easyer pre hitpoint boosts. snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:01:00 - [253] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig hang on - are you saying you didnt get blobbed a year ago? yes no where near to the same degree & a year ago they were easier to kill too 1. bollox - you got blobbed last year and u got blobbed 2 years ago 2. subscriptions and members online went up like fivefold, that means more people in space and more people looking to blob you. It has nothing to do with game mechanics - Gob I remember you came alone with scorp in branch... long time ago. Now you would get laughted at and probably killed by 1504354 before even coming to ... x-7o. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Razor Jaxx Frisky Kitty Kats	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:07:00 - [254] You know what they say, simpler is usually better. EvE in Castor days was a fairly simple game of brutal PvP. Conquer a station? Simple, shoot its shields down, might take an hour or two, but yet - simple. Ever since Exodus came out I've been waiting and waiting, hoping that CCP would can the escalation of complex but un-necessary enhancements, and focus on making the simpler, straight-forward stuff work smoothly. It never came, instead, they came up with stuff like Heat. That's when I knew it was time to call it quits. All in all, EvE is probably a victim of its own success - 25-30k online is a lot different from 8-12k. I can't blame CCP for trying to make a buck. But in doing so, imho, they destroyed what made it the best PvP MMO in existence. And I won't even get started on the PvE aspect, it's just non-existent in EvE, I don't even understand why they keep pretending otherwise. Again though, Castor was the ****.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:08:00 - [255] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: SasRipper Originally by: Goberth Ludwig hang on - are you saying you didnt get blobbed a year ago? yes no where near to the same degree & a year ago they were easier to kill too 1. bollox - you got blobbed last year and u got blobbed 2 years ago 2. subscriptions and members online went up like fivefold, that means more people in space and more people looking to blob you. It has nothing to do with game mechanics - Gob I remember you came alone with scorp in branch... long time ago. Now you would get laughted at and probably killed by 1504354 before even coming to ... x-7o. AND that is exactly why I dont fly a solo scorp anymore proving my point and evil pookie's I think :\. Sas: but the hitpoint boost also makes you harder to kill, raising your chance of deagressing and jumping thru a gate/ mwding back to the gate when travelling alone or getting chased. - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:16:00 - [256] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Sas: but the hitpoint boost also makes you harder to kill, raising your chance of deagressing and jumping thru a gate/ mwding back to the gate when travelling alone or getting chased. True but i would perfer to drop target & leave before his backup arrived this has become harder with damage mod stacking plenty as well as additional hp. deagging in some situtions due to additional hp it works, but in quite a few situations the power of the blob wins the day in under 30secs snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Xenny Lee Minmatar The Splinter Syndicate R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.06.27 17:27:00 - [257] Edited by: Xenny Lee on 27/06/2007 17:27:39 This coming from someone who was in ... for the longest of times, the bane / mosquitos of empire space. Don't get me wrong, privateers was something to this game... but the thing with this game, is that you have to evolve along side the pvp or get left behind crying like you are right now. Don't wanna bring carrier or dread support to a BS fight? Then make damn sure you have good intel or better positioning. You just fitted and got the skills for a new Rax setup? Well if you want to pirate in low sec thats just FINE, if you expect to do fleet fights where even characters such as my own (who were started with rather crappy perception) are looking into being in a carrier in just a few more weeks... On the flip side what has changed for the better? Well for one invention, it might not be the insta money maker as T2 bpos once were, but its made my 50-70 mil T2 tank for domis and myrms cost me less then... 15, but guess what, thats the same for EVERYONE so unless you wanna faction fit, or you have a sounder strategy going into a fight, just having lots of skillpoints in gunnery and T2 large guns wont quite cut it anymore. The beauty of this game is that the same tricks that worked one day wont work another less you find another idiot to pull it off on. Privateers catches a phat juicy hauler in empire? Well next week that guy won't afk move it or move it in the same manner. Gank a raven in a belt, and you can be damn sure hes gonna find some trick to avoid the same next time. So in the end, you can stratagize, find new traps and tricks, find something new, while having characters that continuously evolve without having to grind exp like most other MMOs. Cap ships are a part of the game, live with it or go play WOW.
Octavio Santillian Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:50:00 - [258] Originally by: Razor Jaxx You know what they say, simpler is usually better. EvE in Castor days was a fairly simple game of brutal PvP. Conquer a station? Simple, shoot its shields down, might take an hour or two, but yet - simple. Ever since Exodus came out I've been waiting and waiting, hoping that CCP would can the escalation of complex but un-necessary enhancements, and focus on making the simpler, straight-forward stuff work smoothly. It never came, instead, they came up with stuff like Heat. That's when I knew it was time to call it quits. All in all, EvE is probably a victim of its own success - 25-30k online is a lot different from 8-12k. I can't blame CCP for trying to make a buck. But in doing so, imho, they destroyed what made it the best PvP MMO in existence. And I won't even get started on the PvE aspect, it's just non-existent in EvE, I don't even understand why they keep pretending otherwise. Again though, Castor was the **. QFT** Eve has become / is becoming a guild-game just like every other MMO. Again, I understand thatÆs a draw for a lot of people, but it takes the raw PvP goodness out of it.
Octavio Santillian Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.06.27 19:58:00 - [259] Just to elaborateàthe point behind a PvP game is that your opponent provides the difficulty. Chess is a simple game but has endured centuries. The whole idea of a PvP oriented game is that it doesnÆt rely on increasingly tedious and convoluted game mechanics to provide new challenges. On the contrary, PvP game mechanics are there promote balance and a reasonably even playing ground to hone and employ your personal/team skill and savvy.
Elizabeth Saxon 42nd Armored Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.06.28 10:07:00 - [260] I couldnt agree more.. The times when you just started the game and you flew past an APOCALYPSE.. you were in awe of its huge size and golden colour liting up your room.. and a Scorpion.. Probabaly the most feared battle ship around due to its respect and use of jamming.. The thorax.. probably the best ship in game. Now all these ships are obsolete.. nobody cares its sad when you fly past someone in a scorpion.. because you never see them ships anymore.. it triggers off a whole new load of images in your head about how they used to be.. T2 Ruined the game capitals made it worse Titans killed it R.I.P EVE

Talpa Iute Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.06.28 10:19:00 - [261] Originally by: Evil Pookie Adapt or ****ing die! I don't really care which you choose but for the love of sweet baby jebus on a rubber cross stop crying about it! Spot on _____________________________________________
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.06.28 11:43:00 - [262] Originally by: Elizabeth Saxon I couldnt agree more.. The times when you just started the game and you flew past an APOCALYPSE.. you were in awe of its huge size and golden colour liting up your room.. and a Scorpion.. Probabaly the most feared battle ship around due to its respect and use of jamming.. The thorax.. probably the best ship in game. Now all these ships are obsolete.. nobody cares its sad when you fly past someone in a scorpion.. because you never see them ships anymore.. it triggers off a whole new load of images in your head about how they used to be.. T2 Ruined the game capitals made it worse Titans killed it R.I.P EVE oh - comon who cares if passing by a scorp doesnt inspire awe? what kind of argument is that ?? You lot are getting so whiny you make fitz look good. - Gob Now with 20% extra emo!
Oofig VanDoogan The Return FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.28 11:50:00 - [263] Not sure if its been said, but this is the normal course of events in ANY online game. This is why you dont see online games that last for years upon years (well some may still be around, but pretty much are ghosttowns). Ive spent a lot of time trying to figure out what makes a game "lose its magic" and I think it varies from person to person but the primary factor is knowledge of the game. Once you know all there is about a game, perfect setups, the best loot, etc etc then it really gets tiresome and loses that touch. Just a thought though ----------------------------------------------- Recruitment Thread Human Resources Director, RXA
Matrixcvd Last Serenity The Sundering	Posted - 2007.06.28 14:21:00 - [264] Originally by: Raneru Edited by: Raneru on 25/06/2007 23:58:24 Totally agree with OP and Nymos. I miss the time when ceptors , AFs and frigs were popular . The ceptor has been relegated to tackler, T1 frigs to suicide tacklers and the poor AF is too slow to keep out of danger and too small to take a pounding and so is completely redundant. Exodus with the missile changes + warp to 0 would be perfect for me. yeah i really miss when 4 intercepts could jam, scram and kill a BS in about a minute twenty, that was alot of fun and made perfect sense? Yeah I bet you guys miss when a kessie could torp a ship on gate approach, mwd web/scram before getting to the gate and watch the missiles hit, yeah cool eh? It's just crazy. Bottom line is the game got hard for like 2/5ths the people who like to fly inexpensive ships and do all sorts of UBER Damage. Now you go after soemone ratting with your frig gang and it would take you like 7 minutes to break the tank but guess what, ET PHONE HOME, and his friends show up while you guys are cryin the blob killed the game, mas queso por favor
Dionisius Gallente Vindictive Behavior THE H0RDE	Posted - 2007.06.28 14:32:00 - [265] Originally by: Goberth Ludwig Originally by: Elizabeth Saxon I couldnt agree more.. The times when you just started the game and you flew past an APOCALYPSE.. you were in awe of its huge size and golden colour liting up your room.. and a Scorpion.. Probabaly the most feared battle ship around due to its respect and use of jamming.. The thorax.. probably the best ship in game. Now all these ships are obsolete.. nobody cares its sad when you fly past someone in a scorpion.. because you never see them ships anymore.. it triggers off a whole new load of images in your head about how they used to be.. T2 Ruined the game capitals made it worse Titans killed it R.I.P EVE oh - comon who cares if passing by a scorp doesnt inspire awe? what kind of argument is that ?? You lot are getting so whiny you make fitz look good. - Gob I dunno how it was 1 year or 2 ago, but judging for what my corp mates say, what i read in here, and what is happening in the game, it more or less like this... Low-sec: Scorpion enters system, -If gatecamp, scorpion goes boom headshot. Now lets assume there is no gatecamp, scorpion pilot engages other ship, - If lonely carebear, yeah sweet. -If bait... scorpion boom headshot, monsterkill, overkill, podkill etc etc etc. 0.0 ( lol ) -Gatecamp + dictor = Boom headshot bye scorpion. -Roaming gang = bye scorpion. It could be any ship in the game, but mostly one or 2 lonely ships are like easy prey, nowadays most corps, newbies, older, not so old, all hang together and, with some exceptions, only go out to pop people in 10+ gangs with Hacs, Recons, lots of NOS, a dictor... The few solo encounters i've had were really sweet, i lost ships, poped others and had a ton of fun, but you almost have to look for 50 - 60 - 70 jumps all day long. Its a bit sad sometimes really. _______________________ Originally by: Splagada Edited by: Splagada on 21/06/2007 13:51:39 in eve you can break their windows, take over the house, and throw the children in the fire.
Matrixcvd Last Serenity The Sundering	Posted - 2007.06.28 15:38:00 - [266] Edited by: Matrixcvd on 28/06/2007 15:41:50 Edited by: Matrixcvd on 28/06/2007 15:39:41 Originally by: Myndpyre Ryche The more the game evolves the less the battle relies on personal skill and the more it relies on organization and logistics. For myself, I could not possibly be more bored with the current state of the game. In the entire northern contract, I had fun actually less than 5 times, the rest of the time I was actually playing another massive online game on my main computer, and EvE on my secondary computer. When you need to be playing something else, or doing something else in what should be the biggest fights in the history of the game, it is time that the game review itself, it's overall direction, and make changes. Well when you drop 20 dreds on someone at any given time then yeah you have the upper hand things tend to get boring if the outcome predetermined but things change as people catch up and there alot of war's going on right now that are fantastic to watch and be apart of. Oh yeah, and to the people that say small roving gangs are gone, try 3 vaga's and a recon, absolutely brutal, they take skill to fly and skill/time to get there. CCP gave you a way now go out and do it. THERE IS NO CRYING IN EVE
Octavio Santillian Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.06.28 22:46:00 - [267] Originally by: Matrixcvd Oh yeah, and to the people that say small roving gangs are gone, try 3 vaga's and a recon, absolutely brutal, they take skill to fly and skill/time to get there. CCP gave you a way now go out and do it. Brutal no doubt, but any gang can be brutal. Brutal to what is the question? IÆve had one engagement with your alliance. We attacked your gang of 20 or so with a gang of 15 or so. Even though you had us outnumbered you felt the need to immediately drop a carrier on us. Sure, I can respect that kind of thing on one level, but this wasnÆt a tactical fight for sovereignty, it was just roaming combat. What could have been a good old fashion knock down drag out became another example of win at all costs. What æmy camp,Æ for lack of a better phrase, is lamenting is not a change in a single facet of the game, but an overall transformation of the game due to a matrix factors. What we are lamenting is the diminishing of PvP for PvPÆs sake and the evaporation of good spirited competition. Currently, PvP is a means to an end. Its win at all costs, even if it means using a sledge hammer on a push pin. Some of the factors that have precipitated this shift have nothing to do with game mechanics or rule changes. More players mean bigger corps/alliances, bigger gangs, bigger goals, denser population, etc. ItÆs natural for a great many of these new players to be æherd animals.Æ They are not very capable on their own, but they contribute, perhaps greatly, when in a well organized group. They are all too eager to pad their win column by ganking with superior numbers or by using vastly superior ships. Other factors contributing to the shift, however, are intentional changes made to the rules and game mechanics: increasingly stratified levels of ships, modules, costs, and skills; increasingly tedious means of procuring the newest elite levels, POS warfare, etc. IMO the ability to field a bigger gang or a better ship is nothing to brag about, though effective. It simply means youÆve got superior numbers or a lot time and/or money to dump into the game. One of the great things about Eve-of-old was the lack of a need to grind. Now there are all kinds of grinds. No matter how good you are, your ruppy doesnÆt stand a chance against a moron in a MS bought with endless hours of isk grinding (or worse yet ebay ISK). And just to head off any misunderstanding about my situation, I have adapted. Heckàmost of my past 100 kills are ganks. I too fly a T2/faction sleip or vaga. My corp can field multiple cap ships and has a powerful industrial backbone. We have lots of skill point, the best ships, effective tactics and we have a ridiculous kill/death ratio (and post all our deaths unlike many corps). Adapt or dieàsure, but not everything new is better. Sorry for the wall of textàit shall be my last on this topic.
Entilzah Valen 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.06.28 23:32:00 - [268] Originally by: Matrixcvd Oh yeah, and to the people that say small roving gangs are gone, try 3 vaga's and a recon, absolutely brutal, they take skill to fly and skill/time to get there. CCP gave you a way now go out and do it. Did this a few weeks back and I must say, was quite a bit like going back in time. Kill after kill after kill after kill deep in hostile territory and running past gangs out after us.


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