Originally by: Incantare

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In practice: the target is tackled, the raven fires its torpedoes from 100 km away.

The target goes to a pub, has a couple pints, then goes for a walk only to come back, kill the tackler and warp off leaving the torpedoes harmlessly gliding in space.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Originally by: Incantare

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In practice: the target is tackled, the raven fires its torpedoes from 100 km away.

The target goes to a pub, has a couple pints, then goes for a walk only to come back, kill the tackler and warp off leaving the torpedoes harmlessly gliding in space.

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Missile Velocity Rigs.

Cruise missiles going 12km/s

Torpedoes going ~ 5km/s (not sure on this one)

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Missile Velocity Rigs.

Cruise missiles going 12km/s

Torpedoes going ~ 5km/s (not sure on this one)

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Originally by: LMAAAOOOO

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Join the club, I switched to Gallente, and never looked back.

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Originally by: Rawne Karrde

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PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.

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Originally by: Dimmizer

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If you can dude keep training your missiles skills and get them up they will keep doing damage.. use webbers and jams so they cant run and if u can use senor dampener drones as they work ALOT better then ECM drones and yeah they dont lock the target down but they reduce his maximum target range by alot so if hes 40km out and you don't want him attacking you use senor damps and trust me he will be ****ed casue then he has to come closer to you.

I use Drake's for PVP here is my setup depending upon what your fighting and yes i do this solo too.

~~Heavy~~
7x Heavy Launchers
1x Medium NOS or 1x Medium maby a large smartbomb
~~Medium~~
1x t2 shield recharger
3x t2 shield exstenders
1x t2 invulnerability field
~~Small~~
4x t2 shield power relays
1x t2 bcs (Ballistics Control System)
~~Drones~~
4x Medium Senor Dampener Drones (use t2 if you can)

or

~~Heavy~~
7x Heavy Launchers
1x Medium NOS or 1x Medium maby a Large smart bomb
~~Medium~~
3x t2 shield exstenders
1x Warp Disruptor (Jamming Range 20km)
1x Fleet Webber (90% decrease in maximum speed)
~~Small~~
5x t2 shield power relays
~~Drones~~
4x Medium Senor Dampener Drones (use t2 if you can)

These setup arnt the best and could use a bit more perfecting but I am still working with them. The setup mainly works well agisnt 1v1 battles with other battleships/cruisers but can also be used to fight multiple cruisers even maby 2 battle cruisers if done correctly.

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Originally by: Incantare

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Missile Velocity Rigs.

Cruise missiles going 12km/s

Torpedoes going ~ 5km/s (not sure on this one)

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The CPU penalty doesn't mix too well with siege launchers, especially t2. Cruise though, yeah it can work.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Originally by: Incantare

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Missile Velocity Rigs.

Cruise missiles going 12km/s

Torpedoes going ~ 5km/s (not sure on this one)

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The CPU penalty doesn't mix too well with siege launchers, especially t2. Cruise though, yeah it can work.

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Not sure what you're on about, but i've got plenty CPU even without a co-proc

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Originally by: d026

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If you want to be able to fit a full rack of TII Sieges + a aceptable TII tank you need at least 2 x Co-Processor II (or probably a faction). This is with WU V. If you want to fit something useful in your 2 remaining higslots you even need a ancy router on top of this (AWU V).

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Originally by: Incantare

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Three rigs costs the 6 Seige II raven 60 CPU in increased fitting reqs.

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Originally by: Tovarishch

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Edited by: Tovarishch on 01/07/2007 00:06:28

Originally by: Incantare

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Originally by: Tovarishch

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What you fail to understand is that Caldari missile boats already completely dominate the field in PVE. Do you want to see more Ravens running missions and ratting?

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What you fail to understand is that changing the kinetic bonus does not affect Ravens because, you guessed it, they are already free to chose damage types. So who would it benefit? Lvl 3 mission runners, briefly, until they inevitably start running lvl 4s in a Raven, because it's more profitable.

I also believe that PvE and PvP should be balanced seperately and that efforts should be made to improve other race's mission running ability but gimping Caldari's ability to PvP does not look like balance to me.

Quote:

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The problem with missiles in PVP is not DPS... it's flight time at fleet engagement range. I suggest you read the thread that I linked in my first post to my thread in the 'Features and Ideas' forum.

Increasing raw DPS does nothing but make the problem worse.

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This seems like a case of trying to put a square peg in a round hole. Missiles are poor for fleet by design, even with greatly increased velocity they would still be inferior to gunboats at extreme ranges. Caldari have a gunboat line for fleet.

If missile ships have a place in PvP it isn't in fleet but in small to medium gang where flight time is much less of a disadvantage and where individual DPS does matter.

You say it ignores their weakness in PvP but low DPS is a huge weakness the flip side of which should be the abilitiy to chose damamge type resulting in good effective DPS, but that isn't the case on all ships. As is, even in gang there are few situations where a Drake / Caracal are not outperformed by ships from the other races.

I read your thread when you initially posted it, I did not reply because I disagree.

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Missiles do not suffer from low DPS. Where in the world you get that idea I have no clue. Run the numbers on any missile boat... and you'll find that they are very much in line with turret ships. So, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. It's obvious to me that you are starting from a flawed premise... and solving a problem that does not exist.

Regardless, while missile ships are indeed on par with turrets for DPS... missiles suffer from delayed damage due to flight time. The only advantage to compensate for this is the selection from all four damage types. This advantage does nothing in PVP. Missiles are the only single, primary weapon system that suffer from such a major disadvantage... with a PVE-only advantage to cover for it.

I'd say more... but my thread in the 'Features and Ideas' forum sums my thoughts up. There's no point in repeating it further here. If you disagree with it then speak up in that thread and give me an explanation or some numbers as to why.

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Originally by: Luna Nilaya

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Rook and Falcon FTW.

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Originally by: AnKahn

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Edited by: AnKahn on 01/07/2007 04:13:17
The concept of abandoning missile training to focus on drones and/or gunnery is not new. I suspect part of what fuels the perception that Caldari suck at PvP is the fact that many players abandon missiles before they get good at them.

However, if the "anti missile"crowd is right then many of us are wasting our time and we need to settle this with some authority. After all even with low skill point pilots the rats arn't getting any smarter so i'm sure I could stop training missiles today and still rat effectivly.

Flying a Drake tho (and soon again the Raven) I find in a dueling situation not to be at any disadvantage except, of course, in a real fight my opponant would warp off if losing when I usually am scrammed and webbed.

The Raven uses range very effectively. In dueling situations people usually ask me to fly tward them so they can hit me. Of course "gate warfare" is the nature of most EvE combat so usually your Raven is nose to nose with someone using short range/ high DPS ammo therefore I guess being a sniper is situational PvP.The passive shield tank (and I think we will see more ways to take advantage of this form of tank as the devs don't really seem to want to nerf NOS) means the dual rep setup of ship runs out of cap boosters before the passive tank breaks unless he's using very short range ammo (and therefore you need a speed mod to counter, still an interesting fight). The four nos/drone boats just dont have the dps. (Better have some tackle in that situation).

So yea, 1v1 Caldari cannot fit a ship that can handle every possible opponant. But missiles are damage over time, passive shield tanks love you long time, and your enemy's cargo bay only can hold a finite number of cap charges.

SO, help us out guys. You almighty 30 mill SP vets do some dueling and give us some win and loss numbers. SETTLE THIS, please. I'll very happily quit training missiles now if I did not have the gnawing feeling that too many have abandoned missiles too soon.

Thanks forum warriors for all your advise.

Edited to make slightly more sense.

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Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos

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You've trained up battlecruisers 5, so your only real choice is to either a) move toward command ships or b) train other races.

Given that you're so heavily focuesed (skill-wise) on missiles, I'd say move toward command ships. However your post intimates you're looking for something new and refreshing, in which case I'd recommend training Minmatar - unlike Gallente and Amarr, your missile skills are still useful for many of their ships.

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Originally by: Santa Anna

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It's not that one system is better or worse -- they're different.

At close range, blasters are better than missiles. At long range, missile damage is delayed so that you start doing damage a couple volleys after a long range gunner starts hitting you. Normally, though, you do more damage at range, but because it's delayed the DPS measured from the start of the engagement will take a while to increase. (That, and if you or your target warps off or is destroyed while a missile is in flight, the damage never actually happens).

If you use missiles at medium range they're very good. Unlike close-range gunnery, though, this takes teamwork, which is why people don't like it.

It's really funny to be in a channel full of carebearish folks trying to organize a pvp gang. You get 40 drakes/ravens and 0 tacklers.

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Originally by: eXtas

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raven 4tw! no need to say more

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Yeah i was about to say, time for a BE response.

Missiles are useful in PVP, 99% just fail to see it. Try fitting any battleship besides the raven to do 500 DPS (cruises) / 650 DPS (torps) at 100km range plzkthx.

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Originally by: SFShootme

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They seem to work out for me, just hang in there... Lol.

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