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On the subject of Concorde space suicide looting!

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Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Malcanis Everything about EvE is PvP; whether combat, industrial, trade or whatever. That's the whole point of the game. It's as if you're complaining that you want to play football but without all the nasty pushing and shoving for the ball - can't the middle of the field be for the people who just like playing keep-up, with tackling, passing and goal scoring being restricted to the ends of the pitch? If you want to play keep-up, by all means buy your own ball and get off the pitch where people have come to play. The rules haven't changed since you subscribed; EvE was a PvP game when you joined; it's been a PvP game all the time you've been playing. Why should that be changed because this time you've been on the receiving end? If anything, I think the problem is that CONCORD is too effective at what they do. The savage and immediate response gives people the illusion of safety. But as I said: CONCORD are there to provide consequences, not safety. Only you can do that. I shall use this answer to comment in general. "EVE is all about Pvp!" - Answer: Yes! In the opinion of some players, it is. To others, the answer is no! Again. It is a fact that some players do not like PvP, and prefer other elements of the game to have fun. Let me put this a bit into perspective. As Col Kaos is hinting in his post on "EVE going downhill" there will be no place in EVE where resources and inventions will be made if Concorde space is not safe(r). There will be no advanced ships for sale, and an introduction of T3 will be a killer laugh since no-one but BoB will have the ressources and security to develop and produce it. I am sorry, but I am just trying to prevent this game from becoming a real killer bore!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:48:00 - [32] Originally by: Corben Ei "EVE is all about Pvp!" - Answer: Yes! FIX'D - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Matroshka Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Malcanis Everything about EvE is PvP I really can't understand how people can get involved in EvE without understanding this. In Corben's case, playing long enough to have a cov-ops. It's the basic principle of EvE. -------------
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:51:00 - [34] Originally by: Toria Nynys Originally by: Corben Ei I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers. Eve is a player vs player game by design. It's a massively multiplayer game. Just about everything you do in game affects someone else in some way. I have it on good authority that suicide ganking has been with the game since day 1. You just happened to be flying a paper thin ship with 800M worth of loot on autopilot -- there are plenty of other equally stupid ways to lose that kind of money, and just as many ways to get the cargo there safely. People hang out on pipes leading to Jita scanning anything looking even mildly gankable. That's just the nature of the beast. Next time fit a tank and use WTZ. Your odds of being smacked down anywhere but inside Jita itself are very, very low. If you're hauling valuable cargo consider spending a bit more travel time flying a BC or a BS instead of something fast but one-shottable. It's pretty cheap to fit a megathron to take about 175,000 points of damage -- more than enough time for you to be saved by CONCORD from anything but an alliance-wide effort. And if you use a scout and verify that Jita has < 500 people in local your odds of making it into Jita 4-4 are pretty good too. You are absolutely right. EVE is a PvP game by design. But PvP is not only shooting each other up. There are numouruous other non-violent elements of gameplay in it as well. Some only fly agent missions! Some only mine! I fly in JITA every day in all sorts of ships. I have never been shot at in JITA! Is it particularly dangerous, you say?
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:51:00 - [35] I can only assert that amongst those players who believe as I do are the developers themselves. You learned an expensive lesson about transporting expensive goods in the wrong ship. Or, rather, you should have learned that lesson. EvE isn't, as you say, much fun for those who decline to learn from, adapt to and overcome adversity - in much the same way that water polo isn't much fun for hydrophobes. I won't ask for your stuff, since it rather sounds as if you now don't have any. I'll just ask you if you're intend to sink or learn to swim? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Corben Ei I shall use this answer to comment in general. "EVE is all about Pvp!" - Answer: Yes! In the opinion of some players, it is. To others, the answer is no! Again. It is a fact that some players do not like PvP, and prefer other elements of the game to have fun. Let me put this a bit into perspective. As Col Kaos is hinting in his post on "EVE going downhill" there will be no place in EVE where resources and inventions will be made if Concorde space is not safe(r). There will be no advanced ships for sale, and an introduction of T3 will be a killer laugh since no-one but BoB will have the ressources and security to develop and produce it. I am sorry, but I am just trying to prevent this game from becoming a real killer bore! Please, Corben, ma man... Don't make yourself look more stupid here, unless you are a troll of course, in which case be as stupid as you can be until the thread is locked. EvE isn't PvP focused because "some" players think it is. It is PvP focused because... it is PvP focused. That, and because the devs say it is. If you don't like PvP, never undock, never talk in local, never buy anything on the market, and for God's sake, don't use the contract system! And, as we now have told you a few times, suicide ganking is NOT new. It's always been there, and EvE hasn't died. It has flourished. So will you now kindly take your doomsday prophecies somewhere else, because it is frankly getting tiresome. /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:55:00 - [37] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Toria Nynys Originally by: Corben Ei I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers. Eve is a player vs player game by design. It's a massively multiplayer game. Just about everything you do in game affects someone else in some way. I have it on good authority that suicide ganking has been with the game since day 1. You just happened to be flying a paper thin ship with 800M worth of loot on autopilot -- there are plenty of other equally stupid ways to lose that kind of money, and just as many ways to get the cargo there safely. People hang out on pipes leading to Jita scanning anything looking even mildly gankable. That's just the nature of the beast. Next time fit a tank and use WTZ. Your odds of being smacked down anywhere but inside Jita itself are very, very low. If you're hauling valuable cargo consider spending a bit more travel time flying a BC or a BS instead of something fast but one-shottable. It's pretty cheap to fit a megathron to take about 175,000 points of damage -- more than enough time for you to be saved by CONCORD from anything but an alliance-wide effort. And if you use a scout and verify that Jita has < 500 people in local your odds of making it into Jita 4-4 are pretty good too. You are absolutely right. EVE is a PvP game by design. But PvP is not only shooting each other up. There are numouruous other non-violent elements of gameplay in it as well. Some only fly agent missions! Some only mine! I fly in JITA every day in all sorts of ships. I have never been shot at in JITA! Is it particularly dangerous, you say? Open up the map, go to world map control panel, stars, colour by, statistics, number of ship kills in the last 24 hours. Jita is usually one of the brighter spots on the map. In other news, Washington DC is the seat of government of the most powerful nation in history; lots of people get attacked and robbed there. I can't make the analogy any plainer. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:58:00 - [38] Originally by: Malcanis I can only assert that amongst those players who believe as I do are the developers themselves. You learned an expensive lesson about transporting expensive goods in the wrong ship. Or, rather, you should have learned that lesson. EvE isn't, as you say, much fun for those who decline to learn from, adapt to and overcome adversity - in much the same way that water polo isn't much fun for hydrophobes. I won't ask for your stuff, since it rather sounds as if you now don't have any. I'll just ask you if you're intend to sink or learn to swim? You still dont get it do you!? I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles!
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Malcanis Open up the map, go to world map control panel, stars, colour by, statistics, number of ship kills in the last 24 hours. Jita is usually one of the brighter spots on the map. Well! Completely missed that I'm afraid!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:59:00 - [40] Originally by: Corben Ei I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles! Epic Troll or Epic ****** - you decide - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(

Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:00:00 - [41] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Malcanis Open up the map, go to world map control panel, stars, colour by, statistics, number of ship kills in the last 24 hours. Jita is usually one of the brighter spots on the map. Well! Completely missed that I'm afraid! I'm amazed. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Corben Ei You still dont get it do you!? I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles! Are you even reading what people are posting? Let me draw you a diagram: EvE 2003 ----> Invention of Suicide Ganking ----> 2004 ----> 2005 ----> 2006 ----> 2007 ----> You get ganked ----> NOW Do you see a picture emerging here? /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Matroshka Crimson Squall Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:02:00 - [43] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Malcanis I can only assert that amongst those players who believe as I do are the developers themselves. You learned an expensive lesson about transporting expensive goods in the wrong ship. Or, rather, you should have learned that lesson. EvE isn't, as you say, much fun for those who decline to learn from, adapt to and overcome adversity - in much the same way that water polo isn't much fun for hydrophobes. I won't ask for your stuff, since it rather sounds as if you now don't have any. I'll just ask you if you're intend to sink or learn to swim? You still dont get it do you!? I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles! The attackers lose there ships to Concord. They attacked you because you were carrying expensive cargo in a weak ship and they believed they could profit. This has been going on at least since I started about a year ago and I have no doubt it was going on long before that. EvE will be fine. Thanks for your concern. -------------
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:03:00 - [44] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Corben Ei You still dont get it do you!? I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles! Are you even reading what people are posting? Let me draw you a diagram: EvE 2003 ----> Invention of Suicide Ganking ----> 2004 ----> 2005 ----> 2006 ----> 2007 ----> You get ganked ----> NOW Do you see a picture emerging here? /Ki Yep! I do! I have played for 7 months, and I have never been suicide ganked before. Never heard of it before! Never seen it before! Still find it to be an exploit Get it?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:04:00 - [45] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 05/07/2007 20:03:55 Originally by: Corben Ei Still find it to be an exploit You still seem to think your opinion matters. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:05:00 - [46] Originally by: Malcanis I can only assert that amongst those players who believe as I do are the developers themselves. You learned an expensive lesson about transporting expensive goods in the wrong ship. Or, rather, you should have learned that lesson. EvE isn't, as you say, much fun for those who decline to learn from, adapt to and overcome adversity - in much the same way that water polo isn't much fun for hydrophobes. I won't ask for your stuff, since it rather sounds as if you now don't have any. I'll just ask you if you're intend to sink or learn to swim? I will agree that high sec is not perfectly safe but to some extent the rules places on the player in high sec tend to be more binding and constricting then 0.0 One simple fix would be to allow the agressor to be attacked by anyone in the agressies corp. In other words give people the ability to defend themselves in high sec. If you attack someone then you get an agression timer that allows anyone in your targets corp to attack you back. This would allow people to defend themselves. It is still not going to stop blob warfare or the 20 bS's attacking a freighter but that is a problem across the board and it will happen but giving someone the ability to fight back under self defense till the cops (concord) arrives is fair.
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Matroshka This has been going on at least since I started about a year ago and I have no doubt it was going on long before that. EvE will be fine. Thanks for your concern. Absolutely true!! Only, CCP has been cramping up on the PvP side stuff ever since, and Rev2 is another load of it coming up. It is now becoming so focused on PvP, that ppl preferring other elements of the game is being scared off - AKA Col Kaos post! You will get you PvP chaos allright! You will only be less ppl doing it!
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:08:00 - [48] Originally by: Korizan I will agree that high sec is not perfectly safe but to some extent the rules places on the player in high sec tend to be more binding and constricting then 0.0 One simple fix would be to allow the agressor to be attacked by anyone in the agressies corp. In other words give people the ability to defend themselves in high sec. If you attack someone then you get an agression timer that allows anyone in your targets corp to attack you back. This would allow people to defend themselves. It is still not going to stop blob warfare or the 20 bS's attacking a freighter but that is a problem across the board and it will happen but giving someone the ability to fight back under self defense till the cops (concord) arrives is fair. One of my points exactly!! thank you!
Badhands Gallente Gottland Production Transport Mines	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:14:00 - [49] Originally by: Corben Ei Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33 Suicide killing is a relatively new idea /thread lose. Originally by: Player Guide Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses. ^^^Stolen from Tarminic^^^
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Badhands Originally by: Corben Ei Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33 Suicide killing is a relatively new idea /thread lose. Well, sir - I missed out on it completly in my 7 months of playing. To me it is as new as a babys behind!

Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:21:00 - [51] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Badhands Originally by: Corben Ei Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33 Suicide killing is a relatively new idea /thread lose. Well, sir - I missed out on it completly in my 7 months of playing. To me it is as new as a babys behind! That doesn't mean it's a new idea, that just means you're ignorant. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:21:00 - [52] Originally by: Corben Ei Yep! I do! I have played for 7 months, and I have never been suicide ganked before. Never heard of it before! Never seen it before! Then you have been living in a box. Case closed. Originally by: Corben Ei Still find it to be an exploit Doesn't matter what you think. I might think it's an exploit that people are undercutting me on the market. Doesn't mean I'm right. Again, if you don't like the game you are playing, WoW is over there -----> Originally by: Corben Ei Get it? Yes, but you obviously don't. /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Crumplecorn Well, sir - I missed out on it completly in my 7 months of playing. To me it is as new as a babys behind! That doesn't mean it's a new idea, that just means you're ignorant. That is just plain impolite!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:29:00 - [54] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 05/07/2007 20:29:04 Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Corben Ei Well, sir - I missed out on it completly in my 7 months of playing. To me it is as new as a babys behind! That doesn't mean it's a new idea, that just means you're ignorant. That is just plain impolite! Yes. But it's also accurate. Don't worry - everyone, myself included, is ignorant of some aspect of EVE. The difference is most people learn and adapt (or avoid) when exposed to it. Only the special ones whine about how wrong it is. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:31:00 - [55] Originally by: Ki An Then you have been living in a box. Case closed. Nope. Sorry. Cant say that I have! Been there, seen most. Never heard of it before! Originally by: Ki An Doesn't matter what you think. I might think it's an exploit that people are undercutting me on the market. Doesn't mean I'm right. Again, if you don't like the game you are playing, WoW is over there -----> Wrong! It matters what I think. It matters what players think about a game. If it is obviously stupid, less will play it. Col Kaos post is a wittness to this! My opinion is a wittness to this. Originally by: Ki An Yes, but you obviously don't. Now, thats just plain impolite
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:34:00 - [56] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 05/07/2007 20:34:25 Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Ki An Then you have been living in a box. Case closed. Nope. Sorry. Cant say that I have! Been there, seen most. Never heard of it before! Perhaps it wasn't a literal box, but I assure you that this has come up on the forums again and again and again. Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Ki An Doesn't matter what you think. I might think it's an exploit that people are undercutting me on the market. Doesn't mean I'm right. Again, if you don't like the game you are playing, WoW is over there -----> Wrong! It matters what I think. It matters what players think about a game. If it is obviously stupid, less will play it. Col Kaos post is a wittness to this! My opinion is a wittness to this. But if it is obviously not stupid, and you think it is, then what you think doesn't matter. Col Kaos' post is built upon almost as much fallacy as yours, so you should stop referencing it. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Ki An Ok. You've obviously not frequented the forums in any case, as there has been at least one whiny post a week just like yours for as long as I've played. Nope! First - and last - time I have and will ever post anything in this forum! Well if you had paid more attention to the forums you would have been more aware of your environment. Probably would have spared you from this embarassing loss. /shrug ------------------- WE'RE SORRY, SOMETHING HAPPENED
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:42:00 - [58] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Ki An Ok. You've obviously not frequented the forums in any case, as there has been at least one whiny post a week just like yours for as long as I've played. Nope! First - and last - time I have and will ever post anything in this forum! CONGRATULATIONS you learned the most important thing about enjoying EVE. Don't read the forums !!!! AND Ignore the forum trolls (makes sure not to look in the mirror) they are only looking for controversy and forum wars
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Crumplecorn Col Kaos' post is built upon almost as much fallacy as yours, so you should stop referencing it. Fallacy or not. I you dont make him feel any different about it, who cares what is right in your opinion. It goes both ways.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 20:53:00 - [60] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Crumplecorn Col Kaos' post is built upon almost as much fallacy as yours, so you should stop referencing it. Fallacy or not. I you dont make him feel any different about it, who cares what is right in your opinion. It goes both ways. I'm not stating an opinion. I'm telling you how it is. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(



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