Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

I knew they'd come in handy.

---

Originally by: Cpt Branko

---

"Guns are fine, boost players"

---

Originally by: Harper Ei

---

I just got robbed! I got robbed for 800 million ISK. Only, during the robbery, most of it was destroyed, and the robbers got away with a meager 120 mill worth of loot.

Thats not interesting really, just pain tough luck some would say - if it wasnt for the fact, that this took place in High-sec Empire Concorde guarded space, on a sunny sunday afternoon strawl, with a cherry on the top. I was lootet right under the nose of Concorde Officers, and they blew the looters right out of the sky! Except one of course. He was the one who looted me, while the other three egs went to get their next Reaper lined up for them back at the nearest station, and making ready for the next poor unexpecting bastard.

At NO time during the raid was I given any kill rights on the prosecuters, since Concorde took so nicely care of the business, and all of their wrecks were yellow to me, indicating that the only looting taking place that day, was the looting of me! No getting back at anybody -- noooo touchie --- They were on Trial Accounts off course!

This is propably what is called suicide killing/looting, and that is what it is exactly - suicide. Only, it could turn out to be suicidal to EVE itself, since I definately do not find it amusing to loose several months of hard earned ISK to what I would call a crystal clear exploit.

Lets remember that putting energy back into a shield on a POS from a Neutral ship is called an exploit. I would call it genious! That is, if - on the other hand - suicide looting is to remain a legtimate part of the gameplay.

I think that we should all open up Trial accounts - gather up in groups of five or more, and fly around in Reapers shoting up all the newbies every time the get out of a station in their next Reaper. That will be a hell of a lot of fun - right up to the point where CCP gets the idea, that suicide looting is very bad for business!

Fire away scotty!!!! Lets get movin'

H E

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33
I shall try and answer as best as possible.

They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow.

I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space. I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, and it is being performed constantly!

It MUST be fun!

On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account?

How much would they care if i blow their Reaper out of the sky a hundred times in those two weeks?

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

(And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky)

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything.

(And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky)

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Were you by any chance using the autopilot while you had valuable cargo in your hold?

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

(And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky)

---

I LOL'd

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33
I shall try and answer as best as possible.

They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow.

I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea,

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

and it is being performed constantly!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account?

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

Originally by: Cpt Branko

---

"Guns are fine, boost players"

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything.

(And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky)

---

I travel in 0.0 space on a daily basis. I have no problem in being shot to pieces there. In fact I enjoy it! High-Sec is a completely different story. There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33
I shall try and answer as best as possible.

They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow.

I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space.

---

Did it have any tank? Where you using warp-to-zero?

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea,

---

Yes, 2003 is still pretty close, so it's relatively new in the cause of human history.

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

and it is being performed constantly!

---

I thought you said you hadn't had any problems with this until now. You get ganked once, and now it happens CONSTANTLY?

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account?

---

If you feel they are circumventing the rule against recycling alts with negative sec status, I suggest you petition it.

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

No, there's just one, and PvP happens everywhere. Don't like it? WoW is datta way ----->

/Ki

---

Originally by: Harper Ei

---

I just got robbed! I got robbed for 800 million ISK. Only, during the robbery, most of it was destroyed, and the robbers got away with a meager 120 mill worth of loot.

Thats not interesting really, just pain tough luck some would say - if it wasnt for the fact, that this took place in High-sec Empire Concorde guarded space, on a sunny sunday afternoon strawl, with a cherry on the top. I was lootet right under the nose of Concorde Officers, and they blew the looters right out of the sky! Except one of course. He was the one who looted me, while the other three egs went to get their next Reaper lined up for them back at the nearest station, and making ready for the next poor unexpecting bastard.

At NO time during the raid was I given any kill rights on the prosecuters, since Concorde took so nicely care of the business, and all of their wrecks were yellow to me, indicating that the only looting taking place that day, was the looting of me! No getting back at anybody -- noooo touchie --- They were on Trial Accounts off course!

This is propably what is called suicide killing/looting, and that is what it is exactly - suicide. Only, it could turn out to be suicidal to EVE itself, since I definately do not find it amusing to loose several months of hard earned ISK to what I would call a crystal clear exploit.

Lets remember that putting energy back into a shield on a POS from a Neutral ship is called an exploit. I would call it genious! That is, if - on the other hand - suicide looting is to remain a legtimate part of the gameplay.

I think that we should all open up Trial accounts - gather up in groups of five or more, and fly around in Reapers shoting up all the newbies every time the get out of a station in their next Reaper. That will be a hell of a lot of fun - right up to the point where CCP gets the idea, that suicide looting is very bad for business!

Fire away scotty!!!! Lets get movin'

H E

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything.

(And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky)

---

I travel in 0.0 space on a daily basis. I have no problem in being shot to pieces there. In fact I enjoy it! High-Sec is a completely different story. There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

A common misconception. In fact you are completely wrong. As Crumplecorn's pic (even if tainted by anime) hints: you agree to PvP when you undock. Hi-sec and 0.0 are both PvP zones; hisec being merely somewhat more regulated.

In real life, the police don't stop people attacking you; they merely try to inflict consequences on those attackers. And EvE Hi-sec is a much, much less orderly, safe place then a nice western Terran democracy that still sees thousands of people killed and millions robbed every year.

Fly in hi-sec as you would in 0.0 and you'll be fine.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

We are not discussing what I should have done. I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

But thank you for your insightfull - and rather obvious - advice!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33
I shall try and answer as best as possible.

They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow.

I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space. I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, and it is being performed constantly!

It MUST be fun!

On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account?

How much would they care if i blow their Reaper out of the sky a hundred times in those two weeks?

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, and it is being performed constantly!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything.

(And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky)

---

I travel in 0.0 space on a daily basis. I have no problem in being shot to pieces there. In fact I enjoy it! High-Sec is a completely different story. There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

A common misconception. In fact you are completely wrong. As Crumplecorn's pic (even if tainted by anime) hints: you agree to PvP when you undock. Hi-sec and 0.0 are both PvP zones; hisec being merely somewhat more regulated.

In real life, the police don't stop people attacking you; they merely try to inflict consequences on those attackers. And EvE Hi-sec is a much, much less orderly, safe place then a nice western Terran democracy that still sees thousands of people killed and millions robbed every year.

Fly in hi-sec as you would in 0.0 and you'll be fine.

---

There is no wrong or right on this subject. There is only fact, and fact is that not everyone likes to PvP, and there should be room for those as well, or Tranquility will simply stop growing. JITA ppl would probably love that. I wont!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Everything about EvE is PvP; whether combat, industrial, trade or whatever. That's the whole point of the game. It's as if you're complaining that you want to play football but without all the nasty pushing and shoving for the ball - can't the middle of the field be for the people who just like playing keep-up, with tackling, passing and goal scoring being restricted to the ends of the pitch?

If you want to play keep-up, by all means buy your own ball and get off the pitch where people have come to play.

The rules haven't changed since you subscribed; EvE was a PvP game when you joined; it's been a PvP game all the time you've been playing. Why should that be changed because this time you've been on the receiving end?

If anything, I think the problem is that CONCORD is too effective at what they do. The savage and immediate response gives people the illusion of safety. But as I said: CONCORD are there to provide consequences, not safety. Only you can do that.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

"EVE is all about Pvp!" - Answer: Yes!

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Everything about EvE is PvP

---

Originally by: Toria Nynys

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers.

---

Eve is a player vs player game by design. It's a massively multiplayer game. Just about everything you do in game affects someone else in some way.

I have it on good authority that suicide ganking has been with the game since day 1. You just happened to be flying a paper thin ship with 800M worth of loot on autopilot -- there are plenty of other equally stupid ways to lose that kind of money, and just as many ways to get the cargo there safely.

People hang out on pipes leading to Jita scanning anything looking even mildly gankable. That's just the nature of the beast. Next time fit a tank and use WTZ. Your odds of being smacked down anywhere but inside Jita itself are very, very low. If you're hauling valuable cargo consider spending a bit more travel time flying a BC or a BS instead of something fast but one-shottable.

It's pretty cheap to fit a megathron to take about 175,000 points of damage -- more than enough time for you to be saved by CONCORD from anything but an alliance-wide effort.

And if you use a scout and verify that Jita has < 500 people in local your odds of making it into Jita 4-4 are pretty good too.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I shall use this answer to comment in general.

"EVE is all about Pvp!" - Answer: Yes! In the opinion of some players, it is. To others, the answer is no!

Again. It is a fact that some players do not like PvP, and prefer other elements of the game to have fun.

Let me put this a bit into perspective. As Col Kaos is hinting in his post on "EVE going downhill" there will be no place in EVE where resources and inventions will be made if Concorde space is not safe(r). There will be no advanced ships for sale, and an introduction of T3 will be a killer laugh since no-one but BoB will have the ressources and security to develop and produce it.

I am sorry, but I am just trying to prevent this game from becoming a real killer bore!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Toria Nynys

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers.

---

Eve is a player vs player game by design. It's a massively multiplayer game. Just about everything you do in game affects someone else in some way.

I have it on good authority that suicide ganking has been with the game since day 1. You just happened to be flying a paper thin ship with 800M worth of loot on autopilot -- there are plenty of other equally stupid ways to lose that kind of money, and just as many ways to get the cargo there safely.

People hang out on pipes leading to Jita scanning anything looking even mildly gankable. That's just the nature of the beast. Next time fit a tank and use WTZ. Your odds of being smacked down anywhere but inside Jita itself are very, very low. If you're hauling valuable cargo consider spending a bit more travel time flying a BC or a BS instead of something fast but one-shottable.

It's pretty cheap to fit a megathron to take about 175,000 points of damage -- more than enough time for you to be saved by CONCORD from anything but an alliance-wide effort.

And if you use a scout and verify that Jita has < 500 people in local your odds of making it into Jita 4-4 are pretty good too.

---

You are absolutely right. EVE is a PvP game by design. But PvP is not only shooting each other up. There are numouruous other non-violent elements of gameplay in it as well. Some only fly agent missions! Some only mine!

I fly in JITA every day in all sorts of ships. I have never been shot at in JITA! Is it particularly dangerous, you say?

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

I can only assert that amongst those players who believe as I do are the developers themselves.

You learned an expensive lesson about transporting expensive goods in the wrong ship. Or, rather, you should have learned that lesson. EvE isn't, as you say, much fun for those who decline to learn from, adapt to and overcome adversity - in much the same way that water polo isn't much fun for hydrophobes.


I won't ask for your stuff, since it rather sounds as if you now don't have any. I'll just ask you if you're intend to sink or learn to swim?

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Open up the map, go to world map control panel, stars, colour by, statistics, number of ship kills in the last 24 hours.

Jita is usually one of the brighter spots on the map.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Open up the map, go to world map control panel, stars, colour by, statistics, number of ship kills in the last 24 hours.

Jita is usually one of the brighter spots on the map.

---

Well! Completely missed that I'm afraid!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You still dont get it do you!?

I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

I can only assert that amongst those players who believe as I do are the developers themselves.

You learned an expensive lesson about transporting expensive goods in the wrong ship. Or, rather, you should have learned that lesson. EvE isn't, as you say, much fun for those who decline to learn from, adapt to and overcome adversity - in much the same way that water polo isn't much fun for hydrophobes.


I won't ask for your stuff, since it rather sounds as if you now don't have any. I'll just ask you if you're intend to sink or learn to swim?

---

You still dont get it do you!?

I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles!

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You still dont get it do you!?

I have plenty of stuff left. I have learned a lesson too. I now know, that if that is to continue - if PvP killing is to take of in High-sec space, as it is hinted that it will - this game will kill itself. There will be no fun left in building anything. Everything will be chaos, and we will all be flying shuttles!

---

Are you even reading what people are posting? Let me draw you a diagram:

EvE 2003 ----> Invention of Suicide Ganking ----> 2004 ----> 2005 ----> 2006 ----> 2007 ----> You get ganked ----> NOW

Do you see a picture emerging here?

/Ki

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Still find it to be an exploit

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

I can only assert that amongst those players who believe as I do are the developers themselves.

You learned an expensive lesson about transporting expensive goods in the wrong ship. Or, rather, you should have learned that lesson. EvE isn't, as you say, much fun for those who decline to learn from, adapt to and overcome adversity - in much the same way that water polo isn't much fun for hydrophobes.


I won't ask for your stuff, since it rather sounds as if you now don't have any. I'll just ask you if you're intend to sink or learn to swim?

---

Originally by: Matroshka

---

This has been going on at least since I started about a year ago and I have no doubt it was going on long before that.

EvE will be fine. Thanks for your concern.

---

Originally by: Korizan

---

I will agree that high sec is not perfectly safe but to some extent the rules places on the player in high sec tend to be more binding and constricting then 0.0

One simple fix would be to allow the agressor to be attacked by anyone in the agressies corp.
In other words give people the ability to defend themselves in high sec.
If you attack someone then you get an agression timer that allows anyone in your targets corp to attack you back.

This would allow people to defend themselves.

It is still not going to stop blob warfare or the 20 bS's attacking a freighter but that is a problem across the board and it will happen but giving someone the ability to fight back under self defense till the cops (concord) arrives is fair.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33
Suicide killing is a relatively new idea

---

Originally by: Player Guide

---

Don't expect CONCORD to keep you immune to attacks or ship losses.

---

Originally by: Badhands

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33
Suicide killing is a relatively new idea

---

/thread lose.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Badhands

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33
Suicide killing is a relatively new idea

---

/thread lose.

---

Well, sir - I missed out on it completly in my 7 months of playing. To me it is as new as a babys behind!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Yep! I do! I have played for 7 months, and I have never been suicide ganked before. Never heard of it before! Never seen it before!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Still find it to be an exploit

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Get it?

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Well, sir - I missed out on it completly in my 7 months of playing. To me it is as new as a babys behind!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Well, sir - I missed out on it completly in my 7 months of playing. To me it is as new as a babys behind!

---

That doesn't mean it's a new idea, that just means you're ignorant.

---

That is just plain impolite!

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Then you have been living in a box. Case closed.

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Doesn't matter what you think. I might think it's an exploit that people are undercutting me on the market. Doesn't mean I'm right. Again, if you don't like the game you are playing, WoW is over there ----->

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Yes, but you obviously don't.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Then you have been living in a box. Case closed.

---

Nope. Sorry. Cant say that I have! Been there, seen most. Never heard of it before!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Doesn't matter what you think. I might think it's an exploit that people are undercutting me on the market. Doesn't mean I'm right. Again, if you don't like the game you are playing, WoW is over there ----->

---

Wrong! It matters what I think. It matters what players think about a game. If it is obviously stupid, less will play it. Col Kaos post is a wittness to this! My opinion is a wittness to this.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Ok. You've obviously not frequented the forums in any case, as there has been at least one whiny post a week just like yours for as long as I've played.

---

Nope! First - and last - time I have and will ever post anything in this forum!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Ok. You've obviously not frequented the forums in any case, as there has been at least one whiny post a week just like yours for as long as I've played.

---

Nope! First - and last - time I have and will ever post anything in this forum!

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Col Kaos' post is built upon almost as much fallacy as yours, so you should stop referencing it.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Col Kaos' post is built upon almost as much fallacy as yours, so you should stop referencing it.

---

Fallacy or not. I you dont make him feel any different about it, who cares what is right in your opinion. It goes both ways.

---

Originally by: Korizan

---

Ignore the forum trolls (makes sure not to look in the mirror) they are only looking for controversy and forum wars

---

Originally by: Santa Anna

---

Wait, forum wars? I came here looking for forum *****s. I was all dressed up and everything. I feel misled.

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

They used the special mechanics of trial accounts to grief and get profit.

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

They used the special mechanics of trial accounts to grief and get profit.

---

PROTIP: Killing people to gain massive profits is not griefing.

(Also, it's never griefing)

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

To the op: petition those people. Any transactions to other characters can be traced and if they lead significant traces to some other eve chars then that char might get in trouble also.

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

They used the special mechanics of trial accounts to grief and get profit.

---

PROTIP: Killing people to gain massive profits is not griefing.

(Also, it's never griefing)

---

Ah, is that so? One can always learn.

The op stated, and we all have to believe him otherwise the whole discussion is useless, that a very large part of the cargo got destroyed. And obviously it is not MASSIVE profit. At best it is small profit.

But that is not the point. The point is that trial accounts must not be used to avoid the game mechanics who apply to everyone else, for example the 30 day killrights. Someone else mentioned a security hit. With trial accounts all this doesn't matter any more. You throw away that account and open up a new one...

What does the 'pro' say about this?

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Gnulpie

---

They used the special mechanics of trial accounts to grief and get profit.

---

PROTIP: Killing people to gain massive profits is not griefing.

(Also, it's never griefing)

---

Ah, is that so? One can always learn.

The op stated, and we all have to believe him otherwise the whole discussion is useless, that a very large part of the cargo got destroyed. And obviously it is not MASSIVE profit. At best it is small profit.

But that is not the point. The point is that trial accounts must not be used to avoid the game mechanics who apply to everyone else, for example the 30 day killrights. Someone else mentioned a security hit. With trial accounts all this doesn't matter any more. You throw away that account and open up a new one...

What does the 'pro' say about this?

---

Originally by: Warrio

---

Subject A walks into the street.
Subject A presses gun to head of subject B.
Subject A fires.
Subject B drops.
Subject A is shot shortly after by police forces.

Does this help subject B? Nope.

Art immitates life s0n.
lrn2play or L2P would be the way the cool kids say it I believe.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 21:30:41
Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 21:30:29

Originally by: Warrio

---

Subject A walks into the street.
Subject A presses gun to head of subject B.
Subject A fires.
Subject B drops.
Subject A is shot shortly after by police forces.

Does this help subject B? Nope.

Art immitates life s0n.
lrn2play or L2P would be the way the cool kids say it I believe.

---

Nobody pressed a gun to my head and fired! They burned my CAR and took my STEREO dude!!!

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

This guy has a 99.9% Understanding resist.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

This guy has a 99.9% Understanding resist.

---

I know! The world is flat, and if you sail long enough, you will fall off the edge!

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

This guy has a 99.9% Understanding resist.

---

I know! The world is flat, and if you sail long enough, you will fall off the edge!

---

So... have you come to the realisation that EvE is dark, nasty, unfair, brutal and treacherous yet?

Does it make you want to keep on playing?

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You have a tag line saying "CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that."

Can you state to me what "consequences" you are reffering to?

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You have a tag line saying "CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that."

Can you state to me what "consequences" you are reffering to?

---

What game have you been playing?

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

This guy has a 99.9% Understanding resist.

---

I know! The world is flat, and if you sail long enough, you will fall off the edge!

---

So... have you come to the realisation that EvE is dark, nasty, unfair, brutal and treacherous yet?

Does it make you want to keep on playing?

---

If I had 40 million skill points and a load of T2 motherships in the garage, I would definately have it your way!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 21:53:37

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You have a tag line saying "CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that."

Can you state to me what "consequences" you are reffering to?

---

What game have you been playing?

---

I am trying to make a point here, and you are making an effort out of not answering a perfectly clever question!

What consequences did Concorde provide in my case?

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

It's been my way since I had about 400k SP. I bought a shiney new Kestrel - I was so proud! - and accidentally wandered into lo-sec on my way to collect some launchers. Got popped. Realised (with the help of a good-natured convo from the guy who popped me) that it was my fault. Realised that EvE was enormously more involved and worthwhile than I had appreciated, and fell in love with the game.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very good at shooting people. But I am quite good at travelling without being shot (when I'm not getting beer, that is). That's my main PvP and I enjoy it enormously.

I also run a small 0.0 corp with some friends I've made in the game, and that's opened up a whole new dimension of the game for me. There are still wide areas about which I know almost nothing, and I LOVE that. I LOVE that I'll still be finding out new stuff in a year; making mistakes, making friends, making enemies. Learning.

Looking forward to my 13,000,000th skillpoint in a week or so...

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

I would imagine they blew your attackers up. It's what they do.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

I would imagine they blew your attackers up. It's what they do.

---

And what exactly feels like "consequence" to these guys in that?

---

Originally by: Antithysis

---

Sweet jesus Crumple, why even bother anymore. It's like slamming your head against a brick wall to try and get through it. It doesn't work, and just has you ending up with a splitting headache.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You have a tag line saying "CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that."

Can you state to me what "consequences" you are reffering to?

---

What game have you been playing?

---

I am trying to make a point here, and you are making an effort out of not answering a perfectly clever question!

What consequences did Concorde provide in m case?

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

I would imagine they blew your attackers up. It's what they do.

---

And what exactly feels like "consequence" to these guys in that?

---

Who here said significant consequences?

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

I would imagine they blew your attackers up. It's what they do.

---

And what exactly feels like "consequence" to these guys in that?

---

Who here said significant consequences?

---

If you expect something to happen, and you do not loose anything from it, we are not talking "consequences" AT ALL!

There are absoutely NO CONSEQUENCES for these ppl. There is no risk involved at all. AKA It is an EXPLOIT!

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

They shot the crap out of the guys that popped your ship. As per the rules.

It's hardly Concord's fault that you were using the wrong ship for the job. What do you want 'em to do? Shoot everyone else in hi-sec because you've undocked and want to feel safe?

In hi-sec you have unrealistically instant and severe immediate consequences (Concordokken), and unrealistically lenient long-term consequences (a sec hit that gives scope for several such crimes after the 15 mins have elapsed).

I'd be all in favour of doing away with the immersion-breaking instantaneously appearing magic pwnmobiles in return for a slowly escalating faction response; law breakers being attacked by a steadily increasing blob of police craft, so that they are eventually forced to leave that faction's space (Much Caldari cops would care about crimes committed in Gallante space). Real long-term consequences for breaking the law, varying with the crime committed. (Being kicked out of a system for a day for stealing from a jet can, up to permanent outlaw status for pod-killing)


Keep concord-style effects to the 4 starter systems (or simply disable PvP in those 4 systems), and put a nice big non-ignorable warning on the exit gates of those places.

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

That is not the definition of an exploit.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You too are missing the point. There are ab****ely NO CONSEQUENCES for these guys. They were on TRIAL ACCOUNTS!

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You too are missing the point. There are ab****ely NO CONSEQUENCES for these guys. They were on TRIAL ACCOUNTS!

---

Trial accounts are utterly inconsequential in and of themselves anyway, so...

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

EXPLOIT!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

It's been my way since I had about 400k SP. I bought a shiney new Kestrel - I was so proud! - and accidentally wandered into lo-sec on my way to collect some launchers. Got popped. Realised (with the help of a good-natured convo from the guy who popped me) that it was my fault. Realised that EvE was enormously more involved and worthwhile than I had appreciated, and fell in love with the game.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not very good at shooting people. But I am quite good at travelling without being shot (when I'm not getting beer, that is). That's my main PvP and I enjoy it enormously.

I also run a small 0.0 corp with some friends I've made in the game, and that's opened up a whole new dimension of the game for me. There are still wide areas about which I know almost nothing, and I LOVE that. I LOVE that I'll still be finding out new stuff in a year; making mistakes, making friends, making enemies. Learning.

Looking forward to my 13,000,000th skillpoint in a week or so...

---

I am really happy for you! And I totally get you dude! But you are still missing the point, and you are still not answering my question!

What IS an exploit to you then?

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

You too are missing the point. There are ab****ely NO CONSEQUENCES for these guys. They were on TRIAL ACCOUNTS!

---

Trial accounts are utterly inconsequential in and of themselves anyway, so...

---

Finally we agree on something!

Thank you!

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Setting up a specialised small-ship popping destroyer to kill untanked paper-thin covops carrying high-value cargos is definitely not exploiting. It's using game features exactly as intended. The fact that your attackers loss was much less than yours doesn't make it an exploit; it just makes it obvious that his choice of ship & setup was much better than yours.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Setting up a specialised small-ship popping destroyer to kill untanked paper-thin covops carrying high-value cargos is definitely not exploiting. It's using game features exactly as intended. The fact that your attackers loss was much less than yours doesn't make it an exploit; it just makes it obvious that his choice of ship & setup was much better than yours.

---

And we totally disagree here. Their loss was nill - zip - zero!

---

Originally by: SiJira

---

trial account abuse can certaintly be curbed though - that i do agree on

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

What else do you find me "whining" about?

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I travel in 0.0 space on a daily basis. I have no problem in being shot to pieces there. In fact I enjoy it! High-Sec is a completely different story. There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

That's what we are arguing against, dude. Trial account abuse is already prohibited. If that's all that's bugging you, petition it again.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

That's what we are arguing against, dude. Trial account abuse is already prohibited. If that's all that's bugging you, petition it again.

---

That was not my whining. Re-read my top-post. What you are referring to was merely a statement of an opinion! I still hold that opinion!

But if you are forced to take consequences, PvP in +0.5 is fine with me.

No result on re-submitting the Petition! Not so far anyway!

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

That's what we are arguing against, dude. Trial account abuse is already prohibited. If that's all that's bugging you, petition it again.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

In the answer CCP GM refers to the use of a trial account for this sort of action as a "legit game mechanics" so you are apparently wrong!

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

Reword it. It's not using trial accounts to suicide that is the exploit. It's recycling the alt when the sec status gets too low that is the exploit. Might be hard to prove tho.

---

Originally by: Morhon

---

I don't like the current Sucide gank trend but you have to face the fact that flying about with extremely expensive items in your hold in a covert ops ship and not bothering to use your cloak is kinda silly

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Morhon

---

I don't like the current Sucide gank trend but you have to face the fact that flying about with extremely expensive items in your hold in a covert ops ship and not bothering to use your cloak is kinda silly

---

No! The fact that you can exploit a Trial Account in this manner is silly! If you had to face the consequences as the game mechanics are intended to (loss of status etc) you would not see so many attacks on ppl in high-sec! It is as simple as that!

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Or is that too much risk for the gankers and will now be cried about as too much punishment for using 5mill of ship to kill and loot up to 1billion+ in gank target loot?

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Most people aren't dumb enough to move gear in a ship that can be taken down by trial accounters.

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

So, yes it is unfortunate they don't have to face the consequences, but this doesn't have any major effect on the game.

---

Originally by: Morhon

---

To be fair I think you would be just as miffed if they were not trial accounts. I don't see how making it impossible for trials will stop it anyway. Most of the people that scanned me were in cruisers or in ships that couldn't have killed me fast enough anyway. You do get 3 chars per account and for some it's worth the sec loss if there is a big fat pay out at the end of it.

I would be annoyed as hell if I got blown up and lost all that isk, but I do get that empire isn't safe and switching on your AP is a gamble.

I don't like it atall either but you didn't bother to cloak so I have less sympathy for you.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

So, yes it is unfortunate they don't have to face the consequences, but this doesn't have any major effect on the game.

---

You are absolutely wrong! If they had to face consequences, these actions would lower to anything from a minimum to non-existing. There is a clear "rule" in this game - a game mechanism - that says that if you do that, you will loose something. Trial Accounts do not loose anything, and the loot is transfered to accounts that also loose nothing!

It is a circumvention of a rule - a game mechanism! That is the definition of an EXPLOIT.

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Yes, I do not disagree, it is an exploit.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Yes, I do not disagree, it is an exploit.

---

So you believe that exploits should be allowed as long as you believe that it has only minor effects on the game play?

How can you seriously state, that this only has a minor effect on the game play?

In my opinion this has a major effect on the gameplay, since 680 million worth of resources were blown to pieces today! Thats a serious loss of resources dude! They are - like - gone! In just this incident! How many do you think there are each day? How many would there be if it was banned?

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Or is that too much risk for the gankers and will now be cried about as too much punishment for using 5mill of ship to kill and loot up to 1billion+ in gank target loot?

---

Your suggestion is not necessarily a bad one, but this idiotic carebear attitude taints it.

If you managed to transport 1B worth of stuff in such a way that a 5M ship can take it out, you deserve it.

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

I'm not saying they should be allowed, I'm just pointing out that it is minor.

The killing of your ship was not part of the exploit, that was completely legit, it was what was done afterwards which was the exploit.
None of your loss was the result of an exploit. The only result of the exploit was the evasion of a sec status hit.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Can a non carebear have a carebear attitude?? I dont think so.

I live and PvP in 0.0... not empire.. don't make assumptions.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

I'm not saying they should be allowed, I'm just pointing out that it is minor.

The killing of your ship was not part of the exploit, that was completely legit, it was what was done afterwards which was the exploit.
None of your loss was the result of an exploit. The only result of the exploit was the evasion of a sec status hit.

---

Again you are completely missing the point I am trying to state. That this EXPLOIT (we thankfully finally agree on that) is available is seriously impacting the number of this sort of incidents in High-sec space.

This will, in my opinion, have a serious impact on the economy in the game. Being able to only transport goods in big slow ships that can tank Trial Accounters simply takes the air out of trading in Empire, and the market mechanisms will eventually fail when enough ppl have been robbed that way and give up trading alltogether.

And you want that T2 module as cheap as possible, dont you? What if nobody bothered manufacturing it any longer, since they cant transport it relatively safely any longer?

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

The market is going to fail because people are going to be prevented from trading in small ships, and only the big ships will be able to continue operating?

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

The market is going to fail because people are going to be prevented from trading in small ships, and only the big ships will be able to continue operating?

---

No. I am stating that they already are failing.

---

Originally by: Turin

---

Actually, the exploit did affect him directly. If there were the normal in game consequinces to their actions, aka kill rights and sec hit, then they likely wouldnt have done what they did, and thus he would likely have his stuff.

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Can a non carebear have a carebear attitude?? I dont think so.

I live and PvP in 0.0... not empire.. don't make assumptions.

---

Of course they can. I have a pirate/ganker/PvPer attitude, and yet live in empire and never engage in combat myself (unless you count getting shot at). I made no assumptions.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Hmm so big High school bully/jock style attitude trapped in a geeky lil nerd body that only comes out in forums and video games? o.O

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Turin

---

Actually, the exploit did affect him directly. If there were the normal in game consequinces to their actions, aka kill rights and sec hit, then they likely wouldnt have done what they did, and thus he would likely have his stuff.

---

Perhaps, but if this exploit were made impossible retroactively, it would change the timeline so much that he might never even have made the trip, so...

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Can a non carebear have a carebear attitude?? I dont think so.

I live and PvP in 0.0... not empire.. don't make assumptions.

---

Of course they can. I have a pirate/ganker/PvPer attitude, and yet live in empire and never engage in combat myself (unless you count getting shot at). I made no assumptions.

---

Hmm so big High school bully/jock style attitude trapped in a geeky lil nerd body that only comes out in forums and video games? o.O

---

Quote:

---

If you feel they are circumventing the rule against recycling alts with negative sec status, I suggest you petition it.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

If you have still not understood that my point is that Trial Account suicides like this is an EXPLOIT and therefore should be banned or made impossible, you will not get it! Get it?

---

Quote:

---

We are not discussing what I should have done. I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Crumplecorn

---

The market is going to fail because people are going to be prevented from trading in small ships, and only the big ships will be able to continue operating?

---

No. I am stating that they already are failing.

---

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

---

the game is broken when it comes to suicide ganking in empire PERIOD. Never once seen a single valid arguement or defense for the current mechanics regarding suicide ganking.

Look if eve is supposed to be risky and dangerous then it should be that way for EVERYONE, and CCP needs to adjust concord or ships armour/hp so that you need to actually use good fittings and ships worth more than a pile of beans to suicide gank. Right now EVE is 100% NOT RISKY NOR DANGEROUS for suicide gankers why are they exempt from that rule but everyone else is subject to it?

sorry empire is not ment to be 100% safe but it also isnt ment to be AS DANGEROUS as 0.0. Right now provided you want to use cheap insured ships you can have open PVP anywhere in eve CLEARLY that was NOT the point when they decided to create security status.

Hopefully CCP will get a clue soon and make some changes NOT to eliminate suicide ganking but to make it risky, to make it dangerous and to make it have possible consequences. something everyone else in eve is supposed to deal with minus suicide ganker atm.

---

Originally by: Nito Musashi

---

Ok can someone tell me one thing.

What is the legit purpose of scanning another ship in high sec space you are not ganged with or in the same corp?

anyone?

buller?

buller?

Oh wait there is none, it is purely a hostile action designed for alts that want no risk phat isk or alts that are in dummy or alt corps during a war dec to gain info by scanning ship fittings of the opposing side to have an advantage.

Make scanning ships in high sec an aggressive behavior and treated as such with kill rights. Would go a long way to killing two weak game mechanics in play in high sec all the time. Technically they legit tatics but then there is no risk at all for the alts that are sitting there doing the scanning all day long.

---

Originally by: Morgann Atreus

---

Edited by: Morgann Atreus on 06/07/2007 07:47:09
Edited by: Morgann Atreus on 06/07/2007 07:46:12

Originally by: Nito Musashi

---

Ok can someone tell me one thing.

What is the legit purpose of scanning another ship in high sec space you are not ganged with or in the same corp?

anyone?

buller?

buller?

Oh wait there is none, it is purely a hostile action designed for alts that want no risk phat isk or alts that are in dummy or alt corps during a war dec to gain info by scanning ship fittings of the opposing side to have an advantage.

Make scanning ships in high sec an aggressive behavior and treated as such with kill rights. Would go a long way to killing two weak game mechanics in play in high sec all the time. Technically they legit tatics but then there is no risk at all for the alts that are sitting there doing the scanning all day long.

---

See now, I like this one. I especially like the thought that those ppl who couldn't debate honestly if their lives depended on it will go "Not touching that one with a barge pole!"

Sure ship scanning and cargo scanning should be aggressive acts and should be obvious to the target, as in, " 'xxx' has started to scan 'yyy'; maybe there could be a graphic too!

BTW this: "CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that." must have taken a lot of thought. Consequences that have NO noticable impact are no consequences at all.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Can a non carebear have a carebear attitude?? I dont think so.

I live and PvP in 0.0... not empire.. don't make assumptions.

---

Originally by: Akurion

---

Also, to Crumplecorn:

I disagree with almost everything you write on these forums (with the exception of this thread, which is just a farce), but I love your sigs! So cute! ^^

---

Originally by: Krashtest

---

You will have kill rights on all ships involved in the destruction of your ship for 30 days. You are only allowed to blow up 1 ship and nothing else (DO NOT POD KILL).

As for the looting ship who made off with your goods, you would get only a 15 min aggression timer against him, as all he was doing was collecting the trash your ship made in space.

As far as taking from yellow wrecks , you are able to do that with only a 15 min aggression timer , meaning they can shoot you, but only the one whos wreck you take goods from. If he in in NPC corp , his friends cannot shoot you unless you also take cargo from their wrecks as well.


Out of curiousity, what ship were you in and what were they in ?

---

Originally by: miskagirl

---

Honestly do some people have sub 60 Iq's or what? so you want him to petition people for possibly recycling alts on trial accoutns so that CCP can punish them by banning their trial account? Oh yes what an amazingly brilliant solution!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!

---

Originally by: Moutsaras Triterion

---

i couldn't be arsed to read it all,

but cheetah? 800m ISK cargo, stabs? gate to gate warping? WTF HOW THE HeLL DO YOU DIE???!?!?!?

PWNED

someone needs to do one of those mastercard thingys

Cheetah, 50K ISK
Cargo, 800m ISK

not buying stabs, or guns, or tank, or flying gate to gate, or putting it in a ship that can actually protect 800m ISK and getting blown up? priceless

---

Originally by: Roy Batty68

---

You know, all these side arguements are irrelevant. Here's what I get out of the OP and all the little snippets in between:

I've got 800mil worth of cargo to move. How will I do it?
- Use a tanked up BS? Nope
- Use a stabbed hauler? Nope
- Use a ship with as much tank as a paperclip? Oh hell yeah!

How shall I fly it?
- Use warp to zero? Nope
- Use cloak up to gate? Nope
- Maybe even fit an mwd and at least speed up my ap? Nope
- Use autopilot and go afk? Oh hell yeah!

Oh crap! I got ganked! What shall I do?
- Re-evaluate the way I transport stuff? Nope
- Rethink the way I fit my ship? Nope
- Try at least a different way of flying the ship? Nope
- Go to the forum and demand the game be changed because I got punked by people in noob ships?
Oh. Hell. YES.




Seriously. You got owned by dudes in reapers ffs. I think that disqualifies you from making any suggestions about how the game should change for at least... ever.

---

Originally by: Roy Batty68

---

You know, all these side arguements are irrelevant. Here's what I get out of the OP and all the little snippets in between:

I've got 800mil worth of cargo to move. How will I do it?
- Use a tanked up BS? Nope
- Use a stabbed hauler? Nope
- Use a ship with as much tank as a paperclip? Oh hell yeah!

How shall I fly it?
- Use warp to zero? Nope
- Use cloak up to gate? Nope
- Maybe even fit an mwd and at least speed up my ap? Nope
- Use autopilot and go afk? Oh hell yeah!

Oh crap! I got ganked! What shall I do?
- Re-evaluate the way I transport stuff? Nope
- Rethink the way I fit my ship? Nope
- Try at least a different way of flying the ship? Nope
- Go to the forum and demand the game be changed because I got punked by people in noob ships?
Oh. Hell. YES.




Seriously. You got owned by dudes in reapers ffs. I think that disqualifies you from making any suggestions about how the game should change for at least... ever.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I believe that this post takes the prize for being the most ignorant and irelevant of the lot so far.

What I have heard so far is a lot of macho BS from ppl who deny to face the fact that doing a suicide mission on a trial account, and passing the winnings on to a paying account without any precautions or consequences for that character is a circumvention of ingame rule mechanics, and therefor must of course be conceived an exploit.

It is really that simple ppl!

The rest is just cake.

---

Originally by: Roy Batty68

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

I believe that this post takes the prize for being the most ignorant and irelevant of the lot so far.

What I have heard so far is a lot of macho BS from ppl who deny to face the fact that doing a suicide mission on a trial account, and passing the winnings on to a paying account without any precautions or consequences for that character is a circumvention of ingame rule mechanics, and therefor must of course be conceived an exploit.

It is really that simple ppl!

The rest is just cake.

---

Oh get over yourself. Yeah, recycling characters to suicide is well known as a bannable offence. And? Using trial accounts only becomes an issue if they are recycling the characters or account to get around security status.

Got proof of that? No you don't.

So what's the point? You are saving us from that "What will kill Eve" situation? Or maybe you are just making us all aware of that situation?

Not hardly. I knew about this within my first couple months of play over a year ago. So what?

It still doesn't change the underlying FACT that the only reason this whole thread exists is because you ****** up.

There really isn't much else to say... The rest is just your wounded pride talking.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Again a horseload of macho crap. Do you or do you not agree that it is an exploit? And if you do not agree, what is then an exploit to you? Is everything allowed you think?

And fyi. I dont have a pride, so the only thing wounded here is EVE game integrity.

Another question: When you play Monopoly at home, do you steel the hotels from your little sister when she is not looking?

---

Quote:

---

What is the legit purpose of scanning another ship in high sec space you are not ganged with or in the same corp?

anyone?

buller?

buller?

Oh wait there is none, it is purely a hostile action designed for alts that want no risk phat isk or alts that are in dummy or alt corps during a war dec to gain info by scanning ship fittings of the opposing side to have an advantage.

Make scanning ships in high sec an aggressive behavior and treated as such with kill rights. Would go a long way to killing two weak game mechanics in play in high sec all the time. Technically they legit tatics but then there is no risk at all for the alts that are sitting there doing the scanning all day long.

---

Quote:

---

But it's also up to the player to make it difficult and risky, not just CCP. If he had been using a tanked Myrmidon or Drake (never mind a Megathron or even a Freighter) to move his items, then they'd have barely scratched his shields, and lost their investment in ganking him, such as it was.

Sensible player -> large effort required, high risk of losing a lot of ISK for no gain

Foolish player -> minimal effort required, low risk of losing very little ISK for no gain
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

"Two things that don't make sense: Being paid out on yr insurance when Concord blows you up for an illegal act and, Scanning not being an act of aggression."


*sigh*

EvE insurance makes no sense at in any case, whether w.r.t. hi-sec ganking or 0.0 fleet battles or whatever else. Why should a company that only asks for a one-time 30% premium for a payout for more than a ship is worth balk at the comparitively minor issue of paying a suicide ganker? They're obviously mad as cheese teapots, so there's no logic to anything they do.

Actually since the length of th policy is only 3 months it follows that they are asking for 120% of the ships value over the year


I think I posted a suggestion elsewhere that they out to rename it to "mineral salvage contract" or some such, for the sake of the RPers like yourself who care about the presentation of a game mechanic designed to keep people in the game after losing a ship.


I'm going for my lunch in a minute, and I'll be walking through a car park. I'll be able to look through windows of quite a few cars. Should I be shot in case I'm a laptop thief...?

Nope cos we don't do shoot on sight policing in RL (and this illustrates my point about debating tricks where you throw up an outrageous RL suggestion and pretend that I am in favour of it. Can't remember what it's called but it's one of the blatant logigal fallacies) but, if you're wandering around the said carpark scanning for bluetooth signals coming from the cars you commit an actual criminal offence; at least in the UK.

Now I entirely agree that there should be a message saying that you're being scanned. I've never used a cargo scanner though; does it not require that you be targeted? Surely a ship targetting you should be some cause for alarm.

Except for the whole passive targeter thing and, since you concede that scanners shouldn't be entirely covert, would you support a graphic?


As for sidetracking, if you look back you'll see that I mentioned "impossible to evade" when discussing what constitutes an exploit. Suicide gank trial alts are easy to evade by tanking. Arguably, using trial accounts for suicide ganks wasn't what the devs had in mind for trial accounts (which is not the same as making it an exploit BTW), but the only possible CCP-side solutions would basically remove trial accs for the game. *shrug* Maybe that would be OK - have a seperate server for trial accounts, where there is no PvP and they can do the tutorial in peace without being tormented by noobgankers. When they pay up, they can play the "real" game. I guess I'd support that.

At the end of the day though, the OP was crying because he was carrying a high-value cargo in an unsuitable ship and flying carelessly.

Agree, but I wasn't cheering for the OP and I wasn't booing about the ebilness of SG

All this hoo-hah over alts and so forth is the real side-tracking. He gave himself away with his "There are 2 EvEs and 0.0 is for PvP" bit. Rather than crying to CCP to protect us from the consequences of poor decisions and ignorance (now he knows how to check the map for ship-kills!), it's better to learn to make better decisions and find things out.

---

Quote:

---

You're such a wuss that you want CONCORD to shoot people for even looking at you. What makes you think your foolishness deserves any consideration?

---

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

---

This is just stupid and you know it. Stop trying to sugest that it is follish to use a hauler to dare we say it haul... what is follish is that CCP in their poorly thought out wisdom decided to make haulers a ship with no other purpose other than transporting goods one of the weakest ships when it comes to tanking dmg when in reality they should have very strong defenses since they have zero offense.

Please let's avoid arguements that basically say don;t use hauler to haul and you should use battleships to haul!

---

Quote:

---

Post with your main if you're going to insult me.

Yes, he should petition it. That way the GMs MAY conduct an investigation that MAY result in the warning or discontinuing of the trial character's main account. I am not saying it will happen, but that is the proper way of handling things. To whine about it in the forums is not as effective.

---

Originally by: miskagirl

---

I suggest posting with your alt if you can't handle people pointing out the stupidity in your reply. Again I ask how in god's name can a gm have any friggin clue what the hell your main account is when you use a trial account.... stop posting absurd replies while completely ignoring the obvious flaw in game mechanics being that crappy half fitted ships are able to kill hauling ships which should be designed to take some type of a beating since all they do is haul, only after being able to safely sit around and perform scans in the first place?

The flaw is that haulers should not be paper thin in such a hostile world like eve, and that scanning should be considered an open act of agression. The flaw is not the person forgetting to petition GM's to to try to track down an ban trial accounts.

the game needs some fixing with regards to the entire suicide ganking not telling people to peitition. Only a total ***** carebear pirate would argue that suicide ganking in toilet papaer ships and free scanning fit in with the harsh and dangerous world of eve....

---

Quote:

---

I'm going for my lunch in a minute, and I'll be walking through a car park. I'll be able to look through windows of quite a few cars. Should I be shot in case I'm a laptop thief...?

---

Quote:

---

I don't think there's imbalance with standard tech1 haulers; Obviously they trade defensive ability for larger cargo capacity. Take a look at transport ships: much more costly, better defenses, lower capacity. Freighters: cost a fortune, crazy capacity, zero defenses.

---

Quote:

---

Are you stupid?

I am telling him to petition it if he believes that the one's who killed him did so using an exploit, or if they would later exploit by recycling their alts.

---

Originally by: Captain Cronos

---

Quote:

---

Are you stupid?

I am telling him to petition it if he believes that the one's who killed him did so using an exploit, or if they would later exploit by recycling their alts.

---

No offense Ki but your the only person here posting stupid rubbish. seriously doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that petitioning trial accounts to get punishment on said players is a waste of time and pointless. So stop arguing about nothing reality is that if people can use 100% noob trial accounts and easily suicide on standard hauling ships to make hundreds of millions something balance wise is completely out of balance.

PS until you are ready to post your full real name and home address stfu about posting with alts you ninny.

---

Originally by: Captain Cronos

---

No offense Ki but your the only person here posting stupid rubbish. seriously doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that petitioning trial accounts to get punishment on said players is a waste of time and pointless. So stop arguing about nothing reality is that if people can use 100% noob trial accounts and easily suicide on standard hauling ships to make hundreds of millions something balance wise is completely out of balance.

---

Originally by: Captain Cronos

---

PS until you are ready to post your full real name and home address stfu about posting with alts you ninny.

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

That is beside the point, ffs! The PROPER way of dealing with this stuff is to petition it. I told him so, and I even advised him on what to say in his petition. I have NO IDEA what methods are at the GM's disposal when they investigate these matters, and frankly, neither do you. I am NOT DEBATING THE POINT that trial account alts shouldn't be used in this way, as I know that it is deemed as an exploit. That's all I am saying.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

That is beside the point, ffs! The PROPER way of dealing with this stuff is to petition it. I told him so, and I even advised him on what to say in his petition. I have NO IDEA what methods are at the GM's disposal when they investigate these matters, and frankly, neither do you. I am NOT DEBATING THE POINT that trial account alts shouldn't be used in this way, as I know that it is deemed as an exploit. That's all I am saying.

---

As I have already made clear to you in a previous post, I HAVE partitioned the incident right after it took place, and received the answer from a CCP GM, that it is a legitimate action and within game rule mechanism to use trial accouncts on suicide missions.

My entire post is an expression of my concern and unhappiness about this very fact! If there is no action taken on this matter I will regard it as an incident that has broken the game rule mechanism, and I will simply stop playing it.

This is CHEATING! There is no fun in playing a game, where other players cheat. Play fair!

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

As I have already made clear to you in a previous post, I HAVE partitioned the incident right after it took place, and received the answer from a CCP GM, that it is a legitimate action and within game rule mechanism to use trial accouncts on suicide missions.

My entire post is an expression of my concern and unhappiness about this very fact! If there is no action taken on this matter I will regard it as an incident that has broken the game rule mechanism, and I will simply stop playing it.

This is CHEATING! There is no fun in playing a game, where other players cheat. Play fair!

---

Originally by: Ki An

---

None of this will get you your stuff back, though, as suicide ganking, using a trial account or not, is perfectly legal. Hope this is clear now.

---

Originally by: Ho Masubi

---

Edited by: Ho Masubi on 06/07/2007 23:01:28

Originally by: Captain Cronos

---

Quote:

---

Are you stupid?

I am telling him to petition it if he believes that the one's who killed him did so using an exploit, or if they would later exploit by recycling their alts.

---

No offense Ki but your the only person here posting stupid rubbish. seriously doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that petitioning trial accounts to get punishment on said players is a waste of time and pointless. So stop arguing about nothing reality is that if people can use 100% noob trial accounts and easily suicide on standard hauling ships to make hundreds of millions something balance wise is completely out of balance.

PS until you are ready to post your full real name and home address stfu about posting with alts you ninny.

---

I believe the only way to fix this is to prevent trial accounts from transferring items or isk to other characters, plus prevent a trial account from been able to open another persons containers in space. Though this sounds harsh. At the very least it means that if someone suicide ganks then they will find it difficult to do it while on trial.

Woopsies COmmented with my crap alt. Nian Banks

---

Originally by: 0000 I'mAtTheTop

---

Edited by: 0000 I''mAtTheTop on 06/07/2007 23:11:22
I would like to say, as one of the gankers that got in on this kill, he was autopiloting. We scanned him 1-2 jumps back, got in front of him, he landed 15km from the gate, and we blew him up. Our hauler snagged the loot and we got out for about 190m profit each. There were 4 or 5 of us.

BTW, I didn't read pages 3-7 or whatever, it was too boring.

Edited after I talked to my buddies on vent. 190m each not 100, and 4-5 of us.

---

Originally by: Corben Ei

---

Originally by: Malcanis

---

Were you by any chance using the autopilot while you had valuable cargo in your hold?

---

I am definately naive, but not stupid!

---