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On the subject of Concorde space suicide looting!

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Harper Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 18:52:00 - [1] I just got robbed! I got robbed for 800 million ISK. Only, during the robbery, most of it was destroyed, and the robbers got away with a meager 120 mill worth of loot. Thats not interesting really, just pain tough luck some would say - if it wasnt for the fact, that this took place in High-sec Empire Concorde guarded space, on a sunny sunday afternoon strawl, with a cherry on the top. I was lootet right under the nose of Concorde Officers, and they blew the looters right out of the sky! Except one of course. He was the one who looted me, while the other three egs went to get their next Reaper lined up for them back at the nearest station, and making ready for the next poor unexpecting bastard. At NO time during the raid was I given any kill rights on the prosecuters, since Concorde took so nicely care of the business, and all of their wrecks were yellow to me, indicating that the only looting taking place that day, was the looting of me! No getting back at anybody -- noooo touchie --- They were on Trial Accounts off course! This is propably what is called suicide killing/looting, and that is what it is exactly - suicide. Only, it could turn out to be suicidal to EVE itself, since I definately do not find it amusing to loose several months of hard earned ISK to what I would call a crystal clear exploit. Lets remember that putting energy back into a shield on a POS from a Neutral ship is called an exploit. I would call it genious! That is, if - on the other hand - suicide looting is to remain a legtimate part of the gameplay. I think that we should all open up Trial accounts - gather up in groups of five or more, and fly around in Reapers shoting up all the newbies every time the get out of a station in their next Reaper. That will be a hell of a lot of fun - right up to the point where CCP gets the idea, that suicide looting is very bad for business! Fire away scotty!!!! Lets get movin' H E
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 18:55:00 - [2] I knew they'd come in handy. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.07.05 18:57:00 - [3] Should've been in a bustard.
Weemsy	Posted - 2007.07.05 18:57:00 - [4] ...You got owned by some newbies in trial accounts? Seriously, though. Nobody ever said empire space was safe.
Krashtest Exploratory Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:01:00 - [5] You will have kill rights on all ships involved in the destruction of your ship for 30 days. You are only allowed to blow up 1 ship and nothing else (DO NOT POD KILL). As for the looting ship who made off with your goods, you would get only a 15 min aggression timer against him, as all he was doing was collecting the trash your ship made in space. As far as taking from yellow wrecks , you are able to do that with only a 15 min aggression timer , meaning they can shoot you, but only the one whos wreck you take goods from. If he in in NPC corp , his friends cannot shoot you unless you also take cargo from their wrecks as well. Out of curiousity, what ship were you in and what were they in ?
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:01:00 - [6] Details would be nice. Like what ship you were flying and what killed you. And wrecks have always been the property of the person that flew the ship. They owned the ship and now they own a wreck. The only exception is NPC and well that is totally different system and not related at all.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Crumplecorn I knew they'd come in handy. /thread win. --- truth about EVE: Originally by: Cpt Branko "Guns are fine, boost players"
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:10:00 - [8] Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33 I shall try and answer as best as possible. They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow. I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space. I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, and it is being performed constantly! It MUST be fun! On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account? How much would they care if i blow their Reaper out of the sky a hundred times in those two weeks?
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Harper Ei I just got robbed! I got robbed for 800 million ISK. Only, during the robbery, most of it was destroyed, and the robbers got away with a meager 120 mill worth of loot. Thats not interesting really, just pain tough luck some would say - if it wasnt for the fact, that this took place in High-sec Empire Concorde guarded space, on a sunny sunday afternoon strawl, with a cherry on the top. I was lootet right under the nose of Concorde Officers, and they blew the looters right out of the sky! Except one of course. He was the one who looted me, while the other three egs went to get their next Reaper lined up for them back at the nearest station, and making ready for the next poor unexpecting bastard. At NO time during the raid was I given any kill rights on the prosecuters, since Concorde took so nicely care of the business, and all of their wrecks were yellow to me, indicating that the only looting taking place that day, was the looting of me! No getting back at anybody -- noooo touchie --- They were on Trial Accounts off course! This is propably what is called suicide killing/looting, and that is what it is exactly - suicide. Only, it could turn out to be suicidal to EVE itself, since I definately do not find it amusing to loose several months of hard earned ISK to what I would call a crystal clear exploit. Lets remember that putting energy back into a shield on a POS from a Neutral ship is called an exploit. I would call it genious! That is, if - on the other hand - suicide looting is to remain a legtimate part of the gameplay. I think that we should all open up Trial accounts - gather up in groups of five or more, and fly around in Reapers shoting up all the newbies every time the get out of a station in their next Reaper. That will be a hell of a lot of fun - right up to the point where CCP gets the idea, that suicide looting is very bad for business! Fire away scotty!!!! Lets get movin' H E Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything. (And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky)
EaglesFire Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:15:00 - [10] If you were stupid enough to move 800mil around in a ship with no guns... you got what was coming to you. Thats the same as walking down the street with a big money bag and a sign saying "Rob Me, I have no way to protect myself". "Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"

Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Corben Ei Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33 I shall try and answer as best as possible. They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow. I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space. I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, and it is being performed constantly! It MUST be fun! On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account? How much would they care if i blow their Reaper out of the sky a hundred times in those two weeks? Were you by any chance using the autopilot while you had valuable cargo in your hold?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Malcanis (And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky) I LOL'd - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:17:00 - [13] Originally by: Malcanis Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything. (And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky) I travel in 0.0 space on a daily basis. I have no problem in being shot to pieces there. In fact I enjoy it! High-Sec is a completely different story. There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP!
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Malcanis Were you by any chance using the autopilot while you had valuable cargo in your hold? I am definately naive, but not stupid!
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:20:00 - [15] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Malcanis (And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky) I LOL'd Laugh at me, not with me. last night: 3 hours of utterly uneventful mining; I go to the fridge for a beer (less than 60 seconds) and come back to see a hostile vaga in the belt.... Lost tanking Drake, Covetor & a pod. My 100M ISK beer was pretty good though.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:21:00 - [16] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 05/07/2007 19:21:02 Originally by: Corben Ei There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP! Bing! Wrong! I suggest you look at my sigs again. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Corben Ei Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33 I shall try and answer as best as possible. They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow. I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space. Did it have any tank? Where you using warp-to-zero? Originally by: Corben Ei I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, Yes, 2003 is still pretty close, so it's relatively new in the cause of human history. Originally by: Corben Ei and it is being performed constantly! I thought you said you hadn't had any problems with this until now. You get ganked once, and now it happens CONSTANTLY? Originally by: Corben Ei On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account? If you feel they are circumventing the rule against recycling alts with negative sec status, I suggest you petition it. Originally by: Corben Ei There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP! No, there's just one, and PvP happens everywhere. Don't like it? WoW is datta way -----> /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Corben Ei There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP! dude. safer safer safeR not safe. that's empire space. --- truth about EVE: Originally by: Cpt Branko "Guns are fine, boost players"
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:26:00 - [19] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Malcanis Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything. (And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky) I travel in 0.0 space on a daily basis. I have no problem in being shot to pieces there. In fact I enjoy it! High-Sec is a completely different story. There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP! A common misconception. In fact you are completely wrong. As Crumplecorn's pic (even if tainted by anime) hints: you agree to PvP when you undock. Hi-sec and 0.0 are both PvP zones; hisec being merely somewhat more regulated. In real life, the police don't stop people attacking you; they merely try to inflict consequences on those attackers. And EvE Hi-sec is a much, much less orderly, safe place then a nice western Terran democracy that still sees thousands of people killed and millions robbed every year. Fly in hi-sec as you would in 0.0 and you'll be fine.
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Corben Ei Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33 I shall try and answer as best as possible. They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow. I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space. Did it have any tank? Where you using warp-to-zero? Originally by: Corben Ei I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, Yes, 2003 is still pretty close, so it's relatively new in the cause of human history. Originally by: Corben Ei and it is being performed constantly! I thought you said you hadn't had any problems with this until now. You get ganked once, and now it happens CONSTANTLY? Originally by: Corben Ei On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account? If you feel they are circumventing the rule against recycling alts with negative sec status, I suggest you petition it. Originally by: Corben Ei There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP! No, there's just one, and PvP happens everywhere. Don't like it? WoW is datta way -----> /Ki We are not discussing what I should have done. I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers. But thank you for your insightfull - and rather obvious - advice!

dragonssbane Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Harper Ei I just got robbed! I got robbed for 800 million ISK. Only, during the robbery, most of it was destroyed, and the robbers got away with a meager 120 mill worth of loot. Thats not interesting really, just pain tough luck some would say - if it wasnt for the fact, that this took place in High-sec Empire Concorde guarded space, on a sunny sunday afternoon strawl, with a cherry on the top. I was lootet right under the nose of Concorde Officers, and they blew the looters right out of the sky! Except one of course. He was the one who looted me, while the other three egs went to get their next Reaper lined up for them back at the nearest station, and making ready for the next poor unexpecting bastard. At NO time during the raid was I given any kill rights on the prosecuters, since Concorde took so nicely care of the business, and all of their wrecks were yellow to me, indicating that the only looting taking place that day, was the looting of me! No getting back at anybody -- noooo touchie --- They were on Trial Accounts off course! This is propably what is called suicide killing/looting, and that is what it is exactly - suicide. Only, it could turn out to be suicidal to EVE itself, since I definately do not find it amusing to loose several months of hard earned ISK to what I would call a crystal clear exploit. Lets remember that putting energy back into a shield on a POS from a Neutral ship is called an exploit. I would call it genious! That is, if - on the other hand - suicide looting is to remain a legtimate part of the gameplay. I think that we should all open up Trial accounts - gather up in groups of five or more, and fly around in Reapers shoting up all the newbies every time the get out of a station in their next Reaper. That will be a hell of a lot of fun - right up to the point where CCP gets the idea, that suicide looting is very bad for business! Fire away scotty!!!! Lets get movin' H E thats funny right there!
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Malcanis Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything. (And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky) I travel in 0.0 space on a daily basis. I have no problem in being shot to pieces there. In fact I enjoy it! High-Sec is a completely different story. There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP! A common misconception. In fact you are completely wrong. As Crumplecorn's pic (even if tainted by anime) hints: you agree to PvP when you undock. Hi-sec and 0.0 are both PvP zones; hisec being merely somewhat more regulated. In real life, the police don't stop people attacking you; they merely try to inflict consequences on those attackers. And EvE Hi-sec is a much, much less orderly, safe place then a nice western Terran democracy that still sees thousands of people killed and millions robbed every year. Fly in hi-sec as you would in 0.0 and you'll be fine. There is no wrong or right on this subject. There is only fact, and fact is that not everyone likes to PvP, and there should be room for those as well, or Tranquility will simply stop growing. JITA ppl would probably love that. I wont!
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Corben Ei We are not discussing what I should have done. I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers. And what I am saying is that it is NOT a serious game balancing issue. Those who fly smart in empire won't ever get ganked. I am struggling to understand how you where able to get caught in a cloaker if you weren't AFK. Might you fill me in on this strange occurance? Originally by: Corben Ei But thank you for your insightfull - and rather obvious - advice! You are very welcome. /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Korizan Oort Cloud Industries	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Corben Ei Edited by: Corben Ei on 05/07/2007 19:13:33 I shall try and answer as best as possible. They were flying Reapers and one single Trasher who delivered the final blow. I was flying a Cheetah with no guns since I was flying in High-sec space. I have done that for more than 6 months now - nothing changed - and have NEVER been harrased before. Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, and it is being performed constantly! It MUST be fun! On the other hand, what fun is it to have kill rights for 30 days on ppl running a 14 day trial account? How much would they care if i blow their Reaper out of the sky a hundred times in those two weeks? I guess the only question I have is where you on autopilot ? If so then there is nothing that can be done as you are nothing but a moving target there. If you are moving anything of value believe it or not the best thing out there is a intercepter due to there fast warp speeds. It is extremely difficult to stop a intercepter in high sec especially when they have to find out if you are even hauling anything of value. Cloakers are great in system but they have issues at gates like ever other ship. Personnally I run around in a intercepter even when I am hauling nothing simply because they are so fast.
Solid Prefekt	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Corben Ei Suicide killing is a relatively new idea, and it is being performed constantly! Suicide Ganking/Killing is far from a new idea, it has been going on for years and it has not destroyed the game because you can take very simple measures to prevent getting killed. And with Warp To Zero it is even safer. And I don't know how you could die in high sec (using a Cheetah) when you have both Warp To Zero and Warping while cloaked at your disposal. And if you say you had auto-pilot on then you can only blame yourself for your loss.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:35:00 - [26] Crap, I just realized I fell for a troll. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:36:00 - [27] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 05/07/2007 19:36:34 ARGH!!! runs around in circles bashing his head with a rubber mallet Concord! Concord! Concord! Concord! Concord! Concord! CONCORD! Not Concorde... So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Some Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:38:00 - [28] It's not that big of a problem, warp to 0 and stay armed and you'll be fine a bunch of t1 frigs shouldn't be much of a threat unless theres loads of them if thats the case you're already at the gate. Don't see the fuss myself in fact it's pretty funny when they try it.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Malcanis Damb, it's as if you're playing in some kind of dark, dangerous, harsh and horribly corrupt environment where you can't trust anyone except yourself and a moment's carelessness can cost you everything. (And that's just hi-sec; in 0.0 you don't even have to be careless - just unlucky) I travel in 0.0 space on a daily basis. I have no problem in being shot to pieces there. In fact I enjoy it! High-Sec is a completely different story. There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP! A common misconception. In fact you are completely wrong. As Crumplecorn's pic (even if tainted by anime) hints: you agree to PvP when you undock. Hi-sec and 0.0 are both PvP zones; hisec being merely somewhat more regulated. In real life, the police don't stop people attacking you; they merely try to inflict consequences on those attackers. And EvE Hi-sec is a much, much less orderly, safe place then a nice western Terran democracy that still sees thousands of people killed and millions robbed every year. Fly in hi-sec as you would in 0.0 and you'll be fine. There is no wrong or right on this subject. There is only fact, and fact is that not everyone likes to PvP, and there should be room for those as well, or Tranquility will simply stop growing. JITA ppl would probably love that. I wont! Everything about EvE is PvP; whether combat, industrial, trade or whatever. That's the whole point of the game. It's as if you're complaining that you want to play football but without all the nasty pushing and shoving for the ball - can't the middle of the field be for the people who just like playing keep-up, with tackling, passing and goal scoring being restricted to the ends of the pitch? If you want to play keep-up, by all means buy your own ball and get off the pitch where people have come to play. The rules haven't changed since you subscribed; EvE was a PvP game when you joined; it's been a PvP game all the time you've been playing. Why should that be changed because this time you've been on the receiving end? If anything, I think the problem is that CONCORD is too effective at what they do. The savage and immediate response gives people the illusion of safety. But as I said: CONCORD are there to provide consequences, not safety. Only you can do that. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Toria Nynys Minmatar	Posted - 2007.07.05 19:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Corben Ei I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers. Eve is a player vs player game by design. It's a massively multiplayer game. Just about everything you do in game affects someone else in some way. I have it on good authority that suicide ganking has been with the game since day 1. You just happened to be flying a paper thin ship with 800M worth of loot on autopilot -- there are plenty of other equally stupid ways to lose that kind of money, and just as many ways to get the cargo there safely. People hang out on pipes leading to Jita scanning anything looking even mildly gankable. That's just the nature of the beast. Next time fit a tank and use WTZ. Your odds of being smacked down anywhere but inside Jita itself are very, very low. If you're hauling valuable cargo consider spending a bit more travel time flying a BC or a BS instead of something fast but one-shottable. It's pretty cheap to fit a megathron to take about 175,000 points of damage -- more than enough time for you to be saved by CONCORD from anything but an alliance-wide effort. And if you use a scout and verify that Jita has < 500 people in local your odds of making it into Jita 4-4 are pretty good too.



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