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On the subject of Concorde space suicide looting!

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Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 23:36:00 - [121] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Can a non carebear have a carebear attitude?? I dont think so. I live and PvP in 0.0... not empire.. don't make assumptions. Of course they can. I have a pirate/ganker/PvPer attitude, and yet live in empire and never engage in combat myself (unless you count getting shot at). I made no assumptions. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 23:41:00 - [122] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Crumplecorn I'm not saying they should be allowed, I'm just pointing out that it is minor. The killing of your ship was not part of the exploit, that was completely legit, it was what was done afterwards which was the exploit. None of your loss was the result of an exploit. The only result of the exploit was the evasion of a sec status hit. Again you are completely missing the point I am trying to state. That this EXPLOIT (we thankfully finally agree on that) is available is seriously impacting the number of this sort of incidents in High-sec space. This will, in my opinion, have a serious impact on the economy in the game. Being able to only transport goods in big slow ships that can tank Trial Accounters simply takes the air out of trading in Empire, and the market mechanisms will eventually fail when enough ppl have been robbed that way and give up trading alltogether. And you want that T2 module as cheap as possible, dont you? What if nobody bothered manufacturing it any longer, since they cant transport it relatively safely any longer? The market is going to fail because people are going to be prevented from trading in small ships, and only the big ships will be able to continue operating? Umm, no. I'm going to put my money on the freighters and big industrials being the more important part of the trading scene. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.05 23:49:00 - [123] Originally by: Crumplecorn The market is going to fail because people are going to be prevented from trading in small ships, and only the big ships will be able to continue operating? No. I am stating that they already are failing.
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.07.05 23:52:00 - [124] Actually, the exploit did affect him directly. If there were the normal in game consequinces to their actions, aka kill rights and sec hit, then they likely wouldnt have done what they did, and thus he would likely have his stuff. Im not saying that suiciding is wrong in empire. I FULLY support it. 100% What I dont support is the cowards who hide behind trial accounts. To the general scum population: If your going to to this kinda stuff. Ba a F'in man about it and own up and do it on your main, you pussi. Take the Sec hit and let me wardec you. You wouldnt think it so great when im pounding on your puny ships in a dread / carrier. ________________________________________________________
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 23:53:00 - [125] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Crumplecorn The market is going to fail because people are going to be prevented from trading in small ships, and only the big ships will be able to continue operating? No. I am stating that they already are failing. Oh, ok. Maybe CCP should remove freighters and industrials then? Remove all the big ships to give the market a big boost? - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.05 23:55:00 - [126] Originally by: Turin Actually, the exploit did affect him directly. If there were the normal in game consequinces to their actions, aka kill rights and sec hit, then they likely wouldnt have done what they did, and thus he would likely have his stuff. Perhaps, but if this exploit were made impossible retroactively, it would change the timeline so much that he might never even have made the trip, so... - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Illyria Ambri Caldari RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.05 23:58:00 - [127] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Illyria Ambri Can a non carebear have a carebear attitude?? I dont think so. I live and PvP in 0.0... not empire.. don't make assumptions. Of course they can. I have a pirate/ganker/PvPer attitude, and yet live in empire and never engage in combat myself (unless you count getting shot at). I made no assumptions. Hmm so big High school bully/jock style attitude trapped in a geeky lil nerd body that only comes out in forums and video games? o.O ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek
Corben Ei	Posted - 2007.07.06 00:03:00 - [128] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Hmm so big High school bully/jock style attitude trapped in a geeky lil nerd body that only comes out in forums and video games? o.O There is no point in getting personal. The matter is important as it is!
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.07.06 00:13:00 - [129] Edited by: Turin on 06/07/2007 00:14:05 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Turin Actually, the exploit did affect him directly. If there were the normal in game consequinces to their actions, aka kill rights and sec hit, then they likely wouldnt have done what they did, and thus he would likely have his stuff. Perhaps, but if this exploit were made impossible retroactively, it would change the timeline so much that he might never even have made the trip, so... Possible I assume. hehe. Im not stating roll back. The kill was a fair and square kill. Hell. I have suicided people myself in empire. But I did it on THIS CHARACTER. on my MAIN . cause im not a PUSS like the rest of you who use trial accounts. You giant Puss's. You should all be stinking tampons up your bum to stop your monthly's. ________________________________________________________
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.06 00:17:00 - [130] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Illyria Ambri Can a non carebear have a carebear attitude?? I dont think so. I live and PvP in 0.0... not empire.. don't make assumptions. Of course they can. I have a pirate/ganker/PvPer attitude, and yet live in empire and never engage in combat myself (unless you count getting shot at). I made no assumptions. Hmm so big High school bully/jock style attitude trapped in a geeky lil nerd body that only comes out in forums and video games? o.O If you look at the bits I bolded you might see why I say you have a carebear attitude. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(

miskagirl	Posted - 2007.07.06 00:31:00 - [131] Quote: If you feel they are circumventing the rule against recycling alts with negative sec status, I suggest you petition it. Honestly do some people have sub 60 Iq's or what? so you want him to petition people for possibly recycling alts on trial accoutns so that CCP can punish them by banning their trial account? Oh yes what an amazingly brilliant solution!
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.07.06 00:36:00 - [132] the game is broken when it comes to suicide ganking in empire PERIOD. Never once seen a single valid arguement or defense for the current mechanics regarding suicide ganking. Look if eve is supposed to be risky and dangerous then it should be that way for EVERYONE, and CCP needs to adjust concord or ships armour/hp so that you need to actually use good fittings and ships worth more than a pile of beans to suicide gank. Right now EVE is 100% NOT RISKY NOR DANGEROUS for suicide gankers why are they exempt from that rule but everyone else is subject to it? sorry empire is not ment to be 100% safe but it also isnt ment to be AS DANGEROUS as 0.0. Right now provided you want to use cheap insured ships you can have open PVP anywhere in eve CLEARLY that was NOT the point when they decided to create security status. Hopefully CCP will get a clue soon and make some changes NOT to eliminate suicide ganking but to make it risky, to make it dangerous and to make it have possible consequences. something everyone else in eve is supposed to deal with minus suicide ganker atm.
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.07.06 00:38:00 - [133] also in this case we can see an obvious EXPLOIT using trial acconts to suicide gank. CCP should look up the account used to take your loot track your loot and BAN all involved accounts while refunding this guy his money.
Mirirar Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.07.06 02:13:00 - [134] Originally by: Corben Ei If you have still not understood that my point is that Trial Account suicides like this is an EXPLOIT and therefore should be banned or made impossible, you will not get it! Get it? I don't think you understand the definition of "exploit"
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.07.06 02:26:00 - [135] Quote: We are not discussing what I should have done. I am pointing at a serious game balancing issue, that will destroy the game for everybody else than you PvP'ers. Sorry, I saw this and have to mention, point of fact is we are discussing what you should have done because if you'd done that there's no imbalance. I've flown through the hi sec pirate hotspots with close to a billion in cargo, and people don't touch me because I'm in a fully tanked Bustard. You can't say it's an imbalance without first looking at your own action (or more correctly, lack thereof). I mean, ***, when I took my crystal omega back into jita (when 400mil was a big deal to me) I refused to do it in anything less than a covops ship w/ cloak. And that* was through hi-sec Improve Market Competition!
Danlex	Posted - 2007.07.06 03:28:00 - [136] Ha, I'm paranoid when I go and pick up things from Rens. If there are a bunch of ships around the gate on the way in and there are enough I'll go a different way out. Also, I fly a fully tanked, pvp battleship to move things around IN EMPIRE. It may take longer, but it saves me the stress of doing it in a mammoth, which I only use when I move a large volume of stuff. Even then if I got suicided, there's barely be enough to cover the insurance of using one BS to do so. The exploit here is avoiding the sec hit, and that's only if these ppl recycle their chars. If they keep em, then there's no problem. One final point, if you can put stuff in cans in your cargo hold, do so. That way if the can blows, so does all your stuff. It may not be a deterent, but it is satisfying to know that for your attackers, the operation was a failure.
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2007.07.06 05:27:00 - [137] Ok can someone tell me one thing. What is the legit purpose of scanning another ship in high sec space you are not ganged with or in the same corp? anyone? buller? buller? Oh wait there is none, it is purely a hostile action designed for alts that want no risk phat isk or alts that are in dummy or alt corps during a war dec to gain info by scanning ship fittings of the opposing side to have an advantage. Make scanning ships in high sec an aggressive behavior and treated as such with kill rights. Would go a long way to killing two weak game mechanics in play in high sec all the time. Technically they legit tatics but then there is no risk at all for the alts that are sitting there doing the scanning all day long.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.07.06 05:45:00 - [138] Y'know, as someone who has spent way too much time at the helm of a hauler: The true abuse here is your blatant overuse of the exclamation point. Honestly, I'd take you more seriously if every sentence! Wasn't life! And death!!!! (Suicide ganking still needs to have risk -v- reward tinkered with, as there's no way to preempt it short of not hauling.)
Hiesi Cryo Crypt inc.	Posted - 2007.07.06 06:05:00 - [139] You flew 800mil isk worth of stuff in a ship worth 0isk and complain that you appear as an easy target? Can anybody say greed? If you valued what you were shipping, protect it as best you can. Not in something worth nothing and paper thin.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.06 06:42:00 - [140] Originally by: Corben Ei Originally by: Crumplecorn The market is going to fail because people are going to be prevented from trading in small ships, and only the big ships will be able to continue operating? No. I am stating that they already are failing. And your evidence is what? That one ship got popped in this way? Why do you repeatedly fail to understand that the market will not fail, because the huge majority of the market is based on transactions that can't get 'pwnt' by a couple of trial accounts? The game-destroying "exploit" you are crying about (the one that has always existed since trial accounts existed but that is only now about to destroy the game ) doesn't worry me at all. When I move stuff through empire I match the value of the cargo to the care (and the ship & its fit) with which I move it. Apart from anything else, the market absolutely depends on fools like you refusing to accept the above principle. People like you keep ship-builders rich... Anyway if you were going to accept the basic principle of "don't move valuable stuff about in an incredibly vulnerable ship" you'd have done so 3 or 4 pages back. So, are you going to quit EvE, or just keep moving faction items around in untanked AFK covops? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.06 06:49:00 - [141] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 the game is broken when it comes to suicide ganking in empire PERIOD. Never once seen a single valid arguement or defense for the current mechanics regarding suicide ganking. Look if eve is supposed to be risky and dangerous then it should be that way for EVERYONE, and CCP needs to adjust concord or ships armour/hp so that you need to actually use good fittings and ships worth more than a pile of beans to suicide gank. Right now EVE is 100% NOT RISKY NOR DANGEROUS for suicide gankers why are they exempt from that rule but everyone else is subject to it? sorry empire is not ment to be 100% safe but it also isnt ment to be AS DANGEROUS as 0.0. Right now provided you want to use cheap insured ships you can have open PVP anywhere in eve CLEARLY that was NOT the point when they decided to create security status. Hopefully CCP will get a clue soon and make some changes NOT to eliminate suicide ganking but to make it risky, to make it dangerous and to make it have possible consequences. something everyone else in eve is supposed to deal with minus suicide ganker atm. But it's also up to the player to make it difficult and risky, not just CCP. If he had been using a tanked Myrmidon or Drake (never mind a Megathron or even a Freighter) to move his items, then they'd have barely scratched his shields, and lost their investment in ganking him, such as it was. Sensible player -> large effort required, high risk of losing a lot of ISK for no gain Foolish player -> minimal effort required, low risk of losing very little ISK for no gain CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Morgann Atreus	Posted - 2007.07.06 06:53:00 - [142] Originally by: Nito Musashi Ok can someone tell me one thing. What is the legit purpose of scanning another ship in high sec space you are not ganged with or in the same corp? anyone? buller? buller? Oh wait there is none, it is purely a hostile action designed for alts that want no risk phat isk or alts that are in dummy or alt corps during a war dec to gain info by scanning ship fittings of the opposing side to have an advantage. Make scanning ships in high sec an aggressive behavior and treated as such with kill rights. Would go a long way to killing two weak game mechanics in play in high sec all the time. Technically they legit tatics but then there is no risk at all for the alts that are sitting there doing the scanning all day long. See now, I like this one. I especially like the thought that those ppl who couldn't debate honestly if their lives depended on it will go "Not touching that one with a barge pole!" Sure ship scanning and cargo scanning should be aggressive acts and should be obvious to the target, as in, " 'xxx' has started to scan 'yyy'; maybe there could be a graphic too!
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.06 08:51:00 - [143] Originally by: Morgann Atreus Edited by: Morgann Atreus on 06/07/2007 07:47:09 Edited by: Morgann Atreus on 06/07/2007 07:46:12 Originally by: Nito Musashi Ok can someone tell me one thing. What is the legit purpose of scanning another ship in high sec space you are not ganged with or in the same corp? anyone? buller? buller? Oh wait there is none, it is purely a hostile action designed for alts that want no risk phat isk or alts that are in dummy or alt corps during a war dec to gain info by scanning ship fittings of the opposing side to have an advantage. Make scanning ships in high sec an aggressive behavior and treated as such with kill rights. Would go a long way to killing two weak game mechanics in play in high sec all the time. Technically they legit tatics but then there is no risk at all for the alts that are sitting there doing the scanning all day long. See now, I like this one. I especially like the thought that those ppl who couldn't debate honestly if their lives depended on it will go "Not touching that one with a barge pole!" Sure ship scanning and cargo scanning should be aggressive acts and should be obvious to the target, as in, " 'xxx' has started to scan 'yyy'; maybe there could be a graphic too! BTW this: "CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that." must have taken a lot of thought. Consequences that have NO noticable impact are no consequences at all. You're such a wuss that you want CONCORD to shoot people for even looking at you. What makes you think your foolishness deserves any consideration? If you don't want to be "exploited" by trial account alts, don't fly valuable cargo in a ship that can be taken down by trial account alts. Put your CNR fittings in a ship that requires a cruiser or better to take it down and hey presto! You're immune to this 'exploit'. I'm at a loss as to how you are unable to understand this simple concept. I can't think of a way to put it more clearly. Drake: 33M; insured for 38M highs: whatever + cloak mids: 2 invulns, + EM, 2 LSE, 10MN MWD lows: 2-3 SPR, 1-2 WCS (mods cost about 6M) That's 350m^3 of cargo space that will laugh off any trial-account gank attempt for an effective net of 11M (for platinum insurance) (or 5M if it survives and you blow it up for the insurance) over 3 months. Good luck taking that down with anything less than a moderate size BS gang in hi-sec. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Akurion Gallente Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.06 09:19:00 - [144] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Can a non carebear have a carebear attitude?? I dont think so. I live and PvP in 0.0... not empire.. don't make assumptions. Some of the most risk-averse, carebearish people I know are pirates. Seriously, sniping haulers and shuttles at a gate is not some sort of daring exploit (exploit as in adventure, not as in circumvention of game mechanics). Also, to Crumplecorn: I disagree with almost everything you write on these forums (with the exception of this thread, which is just a farce), but I love your sigs! So cute! ^^
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.06 09:22:00 - [145] Originally by: Akurion Also, to Crumplecorn: I disagree with almost everything you write on these forums (with the exception of this thread, which is just a farce), but I love your sigs! So cute! ^^ Anti-carebear sentiments for some, cute sigs for others. - Sig restored due to awesomeness. For details respond to my e-mails >:(
Steini OFSI Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.07.06 09:30:00 - [146] Originally by: Krashtest You will have kill rights on all ships involved in the destruction of your ship for 30 days. You are only allowed to blow up 1 ship and nothing else (DO NOT POD KILL). As for the looting ship who made off with your goods, you would get only a 15 min aggression timer against him, as all he was doing was collecting the trash your ship made in space. As far as taking from yellow wrecks , you are able to do that with only a 15 min aggression timer , meaning they can shoot you, but only the one whos wreck you take goods from. If he in in NPC corp , his friends cannot shoot you unless you also take cargo from their wrecks as well. Out of curiousity, what ship were you in and what were they in ? Does this mean that if I happen to be in a warzone in empire and see a yellow can,and the sneaky bastard I am would loot and salvage it. Assume it was at a gate am I correct in thinking A: The person (and his corp?) wich I so masterfully looted from has agression rights on me for 15 minutes (I didn't partake in the kill), B: Sentry guns and Concord does not respond to looting rules beeing violated, that's SEP somebody else's problem? My problem would be staying alive for the next 15 mins?
Moutsaras Triterion Caldari TBC	Posted - 2007.07.06 09:39:00 - [147] i couldn't be arsed to read it all, but cheetah? 800m ISK cargo, stabs? gate to gate warping? WTF HOW THE HeLL DO YOU DIE???!?!?!? PWNED someone needs to do one of those mastercard thingys Cheetah, 50K ISK Cargo, 800m ISK not buying stabs, or guns, or tank, or flying gate to gate, or putting it in a ship that can actually protect 800m ISK and getting blown up? priceless
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.07.06 09:54:00 - [148] Originally by: miskagirl Honestly do some people have sub 60 Iq's or what? so you want him to petition people for possibly recycling alts on trial accoutns so that CCP can punish them by banning their trial account? Oh yes what an amazingly brilliant solution! Post with your main if you're going to insult me. Yes, he should petition it. That way the GMs MAY conduct an investigation that MAY result in the warning or discontinuing of the trial character's main account. I am not saying it will happen, but that is the proper way of handling things. To whine about it in the forums is not as effective. /Ki Joy to the world Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Callthetruth Caldari Logical Logtistics	Posted - 2007.07.06 09:56:00 - [149] burn eden have said u need a 10 ISK reward to 1 ISK cost to make piracy profitable in general so for every 100m ship u need ot make 1B in loot to cover costs ( lost ships etc)
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.07.06 09:58:00 - [150] Originally by: Corben Ei There are two games in EVE. 0.0 is for PVP! PVP can happen anywhere in Eve. There is no PVE section.



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