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Barkode Fourth Dimension	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:44:00 - [61] If you want to do your part, keep this insignificant filth off the forums. -----
Slaatibartfast Chimp Logistics	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:46:00 - [62] Edited by: Slaatibartfast on 22/07/2007 15:47:05 Insurance companies are private enterprises, the police force is , as such, not at liberty to tell them who to insure and who not to insure, as always the choice is down to the company. All insurance in eve is based on the concept of your ship getting destroyed; due to the ways in which ships can be lost, the fact that they can get blown up in any sec level and the fact that engaging in "un-authorised pvp" (non empire war combat), or even committing suicide will still result in receiving a payout...... ....we can conclude that insurance has nothing to do with the legal system in eve, that insurance companies operate without specific moral and ethical guidelines (other than those of equal opportunity to all and maintaining customer satisfaction [read: paying people who bought a policy]), eve works on ultra-capitalism, as such private corporations hold the isk and the power, the cops are small-fry and not the decision makers; basically stfu and stop whining. If anyone refutes this I shall be forced to make up something even more convoluted to justify the supremacy of private enterprise over a puny police force, don't make me do it.
Tallen Zek	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:54:00 - [63] Edited by: Tallen Zek on 22/07/2007 15:54:38 I agree with the point of this topic and disagree, You all need to take into acount that insurence is a privet company and there is the accosional newer player or miss click with warnings off, i think that concord should stay the way it is, and after 5 ship destructions in 3 days the insurence can and should say your a liability and force you to wait 5 days.. Now on the POINT OF A MANIAC SUISIDING EVERYONE..sorry caps..insurence dose not cover the full loss only give or take 80% of the ships price(none of the equip) so if that guy has that kind of isk to burn, im sure if he could keep suisiding without insurence and prolly is.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.22 18:53:00 - [64] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/07/2007 18:54:12 Originally by: Cipher7 Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it I know this concept might be hard to grasp for people like you, but some people actually have a conscience and can not simply turn it off and enjoy ruining someone elses day because it is 'just a game'... I know I could get rich isk-wise easily doing it, but I also know that I would probably quit the game after the first success because I could not look at myself in the mirror anymore. As for insurances being private companies, that is EXACTLY one good point FOR the removal of insurance payout on concording. Those companies are out for profit, and they certainly would jump at ANY chance that would allow them not to pay the insurance. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Yagyu Retsudo	Posted - 2007.07.22 19:13:00 - [65] Edited by: Yagyu Retsudo on 22/07/2007 19:14:40 Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Sircumwenting the sec-rate by using throw-away alts are a bannable offence afaik. It may be, but it's unenforceable. Unless the guy starts bragging in local 'lulz gais I*****bak with anuthur alt' there's not much proof to be had. You can claim its skill, and I'll agree that in some cases we are talking about morons here, people who don't understand the flagging system, etc. - but the abuse of alts and disposable trials is a bit much. Use the throwaway to bait CONCORD into a faroff belt a moment before you attack your target = delayed reaction, more time to kill. Oh noes I lost my T1 fitted BS - who cares? 80% return from insurance and if I got my BS popped I knew damn well that the return was worth it. Time to hop on main account, pull up hauler and profit. In other words, its like piracy easymode (aka no risk) for NPC corp carebear alts and various and sundry other lowlifes. Add in how easy it is to exploit CONCORDs response time when running multiple accounts and you have a problem.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.22 19:44:00 - [66] Didn't read the thread, but I know there are going to be people in here arguing using either RL comparisons or RP reasoning. To these people: STFU. It's a game mechanic. It doesn't make any kind of sense. It's not meant to. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:49:00 - [67] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. The farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting ***ed off with a stupid insurance system. For God's sake. Look, whatever else the "EvE insurance" is, it certainly isn't insurance in any sense that we know it here. If you disagree, please tell me where I can insure anything* for a one-time 30% premium of a payout for more than I paid for the item. Please - I need the money! Breaking the 4th wall: it's a game mechanic designed to keep people able to play at some level no matter how poor their luck/skill/judgement is. If you want to think of it as a pre-paid salvage contract on the minerals in the insured ship that's merely named insurance, then do that if it makes you happier. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. The farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting ***ed off with a stupid insurance system. For God's sake. Look, whatever else the "EvE insurance" is, it certainly isn't insurance in any sense that we know it here. If you disagree, please tell me where I can insure anything* for a one-time 30% premium of a payout for more than I paid for the item. Please - I need the money! Breaking the 4th wall: it's a game mechanic designed to keep people able to play at some level no matter how poor their luck/skill/judgement is. If you want to think of it as a pre-paid salvage contract on the minerals in the insured ship that's merely named insurance, then do that if it makes you happier. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:50:00 - [69] Edited by: Malcanis on 22/07/2007 20:52:10 EDT: Eve forum script makes me weep. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:08:00 - [70] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/07/2007 18:54:12 Originally by: Cipher7 Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it I know this concept might be hard to grasp for people like you, but some people actually have a conscience and can not simply turn it off and enjoy ruining someone elses day because it is 'just a game'... I know I could get rich isk-wise easily doing it, but I also know that I would probably quit the game after the first success because I could not look at myself in the mirror anymore. Bull. If highsec piracy would cause pangs on your "conscience" then do lowsec piracy. You know, lowsec, where you get a warning popup window so everyone knows the risks. Do 0.0 piracy. Go into 0.0 where all the big bad alliances live, you know the ones that camp gates and kill people like you, and go gank one of their miners. Excuses excuses. "Piracy is so easy and I can do it and get rich but I have a conscience." Yeah RIGHT, ya blowhard, blow a little harder why dont ya.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:20:00 - [71] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/07/2007 18:54:12 Originally by: Cipher7 Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it I know this concept might be hard to grasp for people like you, but some people actually have a conscience and can not simply turn it off and enjoy ruining someone elses day because it is 'just a game'... I know I could get rich isk-wise easily doing it, but I also know that I would probably quit the game after the first success because I could not look at myself in the mirror anymore. Bull. If highsec piracy would cause pangs on your "conscience" then do lowsec piracy. You know, lowsec, where you get a warning popup window so everyone knows the risks. Do 0.0 piracy. Go into 0.0 where all the big bad alliances live, you know the ones that camp gates and kill people like you, and go gank one of their miners. Excuses excuses. "Piracy is so easy and I can do it and get rich but I have a conscience." Yeah RIGHT, ya blowhard, blow a little harder why dont ya. Well, I knew you would not understand it. Besides, lowsec piracy is still piracy so also a nono for me. It doesn't have anything to do with others knowing the risk you know, it has to do with empathy? Feeling bad for someone elses loss? Another thing you won't understand probably. I am sure when you see a pedestrian crossing the street on a red light you try to run him over because he 'knows the risk' ? There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:24:00 - [72] Originally by: Hannobaal I agree. If you lose your ship to Concord, you should not get insurance. But first yu have to make Concord 'smarter' to prevent every little mistake from having dire consequences, especially for new players. _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. -
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:29:00 - [73] Originally by: Yagyu Retsudo Originally by: Le Skunk So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? SKUNK Yeah, then he can make another trial. I wish EVE had some sort of method to contact the GMs about things like trial acct abuse or alt recycling. Surely, such a system shall one day be in place.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:31:00 - [74] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 22/07/2007 21:31:05 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well, I knew you would not understand it. Besides, lowsec piracy is still piracy so also a nono for me. It doesn't have anything to do with others knowing the risk you know, it has to do with empathy? Feeling bad for someone elses loss? Another thing you won't understand probably. I am sure when you see a pedestrian crossing the street on a red light you try to run him over because he 'knows the risk' ? /facepalm - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:47:00 - [75] As for the rest of ya. People who have never done a profession should not comment on that profession. I can respect that it sucks to get ganked in highsec. Don't twist your pain into stupidity. Just because another profession once affected you negatively doesn't make it negative. The average builder/trader/miner/etc who regularly carries stuff through empire for profit. You might make 100 successful profitable trade runs, and get ganked on 1 of those runs. Think logically. If %1 of your ore is stolen, is that really such a horrible amount of loss for a profession? Risk management. If you consider a %10 loss to be normal, do highsec traders/manufacturers really have anything to complain about? Should there be SOME percentage of loss? What is that percentage? 1 percent? 5 percent? Are we shooting for a %100 loss free game where nobody EVER loses a hauler? Removing concord insurance, you know who will suffer? Who is going to suffer? Mostly carebears, mish runners and new players. Whoops, had module hot-loaded and did not notice the green. Targets someone's can by accident. No insurance for jooooo. Whoops, using smart bomb in mission, some guy in cov ops comes flying in your sb range. Concordokken, No insurance for joooo. The pirates will simply take the profit/loss into account and you will still be here whining. They will simply make less profit.
Kizbet	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:04:00 - [76] Notice how they're all "but what about some noob making a mistake" to not removing insurance payouts for a Concording... But when one of those noobs in their hauler gets suicide ganked by them it's "live and learn!". It's hypocrisy, and yet another welfare handout for pirates, yet another I-WIN button for CCP's favorite pets. Give me the ability to set my prices higher on the market for corps/players I don't care for. Give me the ability to refuse to sell to them at all. Give me the ability to shield my cargo bay. Then we'll talk market PvP, won't we ? Till then, anyone who says "Market PvP" should be beaten senseless with a sock full of veldspar. No payout for a Concording, end pirate welfare. -Kiz
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:12:00 - [77] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well, I knew you would not understand it. Besides, lowsec piracy is still piracy so also a nono for me. It doesn't have anything to do with others knowing the risk you know, it has to do with empathy? Feeling bad for someone elses loss? Another thing you won't understand probably. I am sure when you see a pedestrian crossing the street on a red light you try to run him over because he 'knows the risk' ? When I shoot someone, I fully expect to be able to go to a bar with him afterwards and have a beer. I don't shoot people to cause them emotional anguish in RL. The assumption is we are consenting adults playing a pvp video game. Could be him ganking me, could be me ganking him. Any ship I undock with is automatically considered a loss. If I'm not ok to lose it, I don't undock with it. This morning I took a t1 hauler filled with 300m worth of stuff from 0.0 to my preferred trading location to sell. It was a total rush, my heart was pounding out of my chest, I was screaming and hollering, giddy from the rush, I was like "YEAH MOTHERF@CKERS YEAH YOU CANT TOUCH THIS." I mean that's what I play Eve for man. Its a total freakin rush. And if they had got me, I woulda been bummed out for about 15 seconds, then I'd go eat pancakes and watch cartoons. I don't really understand people who are like "feeling of loss, empathy." Dude are you playing a video game or working a second job?
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:28:00 - [78] Originally by: Kizbet But when one of those noobs in their hauler gets suicide ganked by them it's "live and learn!". Industrialists have the best position in the game. When people like me lose a ship, people like you get paid. How much money you got? Prolly 50 times more than me. Yeah keep workin that "woe is me" speech.
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:39:00 - [79] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: Hannobaal I agree. If you lose your ship to Concord, you should not get insurance. But first yu have to make Concord 'smarter' to prevent every little mistake from having dire consequences, especially for new players. How about concord only gets dispatched when a crime has been completed (ship destruction) and destroys all involved? That would prevent a little mistake from killing a ship and eliminate the need for pirate insurance. _____ CPU Love
Speed Devil Caldari Mean Machines	Posted - 2007.07.22 23:14:00 - [80] i got a question is this thread about me suiciding hulks and covetors in gulfonodi? http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Speed+Devil if it is, well i just got wardecced by a 16 member corp
Willow Whisp Sadist Faction	Posted - 2007.07.22 23:16:00 - [81] I do wonder, when insurance stops being payed out, and suicide ganks continue to happen, what will you whine about next? ... Sadist Faction is recruiting
Sam kiwi	Posted - 2007.07.23 00:02:00 - [82] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. The farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting ***ed off with a stupid insurance system. For God's sake. Look, whatever else the "EvE insurance" is, it certainly isn't insurance in any sense that we know it here. If you disagree, please tell me where I can insure anything* for a one-time 30% premium of a payout for more than I paid for the item. Please - I need the money! Breaking the 4th wall: it's a game mechanic designed to keep people able to play at some level no matter how poor their luck/skill/judgement is. If you want to think of it as a pre-paid salvage contract on the minerals in the insured ship that's merely named insurance, then do that if it makes you happier. Then Mabey CCP should change it to be more like the insurance we do know(ie RL insurance). Scc atm are def taking a major loss with the way they do opperate. The best way to do it probably would be to increase insurance costs for people who lose their ships often. But to also do a security check, like all insurance companies do, and charge more for those who do have a negitave sec status. This would mean any noobs who make mistakes would still get the full amount back at least 1 time, and mabey even a few more times. You would also be able to decrease the amount u have to pay in insurance by never losing ships etc, but thats rearly gona happen. PS Quote: Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/07/2007 18:54:12 Originally by: Cipher7 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know this concept might be hard to grasp for people like you, but some people actually have a conscience and can not simply turn it off and enjoy ruining someone elses day because it is 'just a game'... I know I could get rich isk-wise easily doing it, but I also know that I would probably quit the game after the first success because I could not look at myself in the mirror anymore. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bull. If highsec piracy would cause pangs on your "conscience" then do lowsec piracy. You know, lowsec, where you get a warning popup window so everyone knows the risks. Do 0.0 piracy. Go into 0.0 where all the big bad alliances live, you know the ones that camp gates and kill people like you, and go gank one of their miners. Excuses excuses. "Piracy is so easy and I can do it and get rich but I have a conscience." Yeah RIGHT, ya blowhard, blow a little harder why dont ya. With this issue not everyone wants to go around shooting at people, or even npc's for that matter. Some people do actully enjoy making the markets work for them, or even mining . Everyone is not alike, so not everyone will actully like pirating, just like not everyone likes mining, or exploring etc etc etc. CCP have done a great job making a game that caters to alot of diff people.
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.23 00:05:00 - [83] They should jsut remove insurrance form the game...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:07:00 - [84] Originally by: William Hamilton They should jsut remove insurrance form the game... you win eve ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
FieldDocter	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:58:00 - [85] What a grand group we have here. I don't have much to say, other than forget it. It's just a game, and I expect to enjoy it. Please call me a baby, please do. Call me a carebear, call me whatever you would like. I don't have much in the area of ISK, and as far as my fighting abilities and mission running, very minimal. Now, the day a pirate can come to me and thank me for allowing them to continue "ganking" by continuing to play the game, hell maybe I'll even feel appreciated as cannon fodder. I guess maybe I'm not the baby... but hey pirates - don't forget, you may make money off of your kills and even if you don't complain when others burst your bubble someone's out of a ship, either way. Enjoy the pointless babble that is Doc's rant. Later.
Arenthia D'naga	Posted - 2007.07.23 04:48:00 - [86] Originally by: Happydayz You obviously have no idea how painful it is to grind back security status, even with 0.0 ratting. Try it in the drone regions.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 04:50:00 - [87] Originally by: Gypsio III Why would any insurance company company insure a pilot who is incapable of defending himself? Remove all insurance from miners, haulers and other bears, please. in a way I agree insurance should be based on what you were doing when you lost it. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 05:24:00 - [88] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Gypsio III Why would any insurance company company insure a pilot who is incapable of defending himself? Remove all insurance from miners, haulers and other bears, please. in a way I agree insurance should be based on what you were doing when you lost it. concord doesnt pay your insurance a separate professional company does they dont care if you skin kittens for a living they make business with you ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Chaos Incarnate	Posted - 2007.07.23 05:34:00 - [89] This thread is a truckload of fail. Insurance is a mechanic to limit ship loss penalties. Its not RL insurance by any means, and it would be a silly change to make it more like it (it'd basically be removing it). I mean, if it was, your insurance would be canceled when you were wardec'd, when you enter lowsec, when NPC/PC pirates shoot at you, when you self destruct, when you carry contraband, when you carry high value cargo, etc, etc. In short, this fancy RL-inspired EVE insurance would protect against...well, if there's a bug and your ship explodes for no reason in the middle of nowhere, which is quite well dealt with the reimbursement petition. And anyway, suicide ganking has a reprisal; both sec status loss and the 30d free-reverse-kill; if he blows you up for no reason, you get 30 whole days to gank his ship once. Get a few miners to gang up, and I'm certain even their carebeary hearts can blow up your suicide ganker.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.23 06:20:00 - [90] Originally by: Happydayz Originally by: Brutor Shaun Originally by: Le Skunk So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? And he goes ratting for a while. rinse and repeat. You obviously have no idea how painful it is to grind back security status, even with 0.0 ratting. If it is so painful me can avoid the pain treating it like the standing with empires or corporations. You goo too low you don't return back. I fount very ridicul the hard and all-mighty PvPers that need the insurance crutch or they can't make a profit in empire. Well pirating in the N.Y. hardor don't give a profit, only a lot of years of jail. Today pirates operate in the Eritrean waters, or the water of similar third word nations. In ports like San Diego or NY the criminls do withe collars crimes, scams, smuggling, fraud. That is the balance EVE should have.

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