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Brutor Shaun	Posted - 2007.07.21 17:21:00 - [1] One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. If the farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting ****ed off with a stupid insurance system. Bookmark Idea - My skills
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.21 17:23:00 - [2] I agree. If you lose your ship to Concord, you should not get insurance. ------------------
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.07.21 17:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. The farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting **ed off with a stupid insurance system. So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? SKUNK Originally by:** Fink Angel They acted like Mr. Creasote at the all you can eat buffet, and CCP provided the Wafer Theeen Mint.
Yagyu Retsudo	Posted - 2007.07.21 17:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Le Skunk So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? SKUNK Yeah, then he can make another trial.
Brutor Shaun	Posted - 2007.07.21 17:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Le Skunk So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? And he goes ratting for a while. rinse and repeat. Bookmark Idea - My skills
Malicious Wraith Minmatar The Dark Side of the Moon	Posted - 2007.07.21 17:30:00 - [6] Bloody hell, Insurance by death of concord makes high sec suicide running possible, and profitable. Dont trash it, we need high sec suicide runs, its better for EvE. ----------------------------------------
CaptainSeafort Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.07.21 18:27:00 - [7] Edited by: CaptainSeafort on 21/07/2007 18:26:52 i agree, hisec ganking is screwd up. it should be profitable becuase youve chosen a good target - ie, the idiot hauling megacyte in his velator. not because concord pops you then says "oh, sorry bout that ship. heres a new one!" "Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE!
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.21 18:43:00 - [8] Agreed. If it was supposed to be profitable to attack people in empire CONCORD would be tankable/defeatable. The thing is at the moment empire suicide ganks provide the gameplay that lo-sec is supposed to and removing that without providing a reasonable alternative would generate massive pi-rat emo-fits on the forums.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:05:00 - [9] How about instead of getting nothing from concord death, you get like half insurance or something? A lot of people lose their ships in accidents where they shoot the wrong person, or remote rep goes haywire, its not really fair to screw them over completely because some people have found its possible to lose next to nothing when suiciding certain ships. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Yagyu Retsudo Originally by: Le Skunk So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? SKUNK Yeah, then he can make another trial. Sircumwenting the sec-rate by using throw-away alts are a bannable offence afaik. Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Zeonos Amarr Fairtrade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:10:00 - [11] and how would this solve the problem?... the guy uses trail you say, if he blows a miner he can pick up loot and earn enugh for 10/20 new frigs. its a minor loss. only one getting hurt, are those suiciding freighters. Look I Hijacked a sig!! -Kaemonn <3 Kaemonn -Zeonos A sunset with Kaemonn... how nice... -Wachtmeister In Eve-Online Forum Hijack Signature! -Ivan K This space is reserved for moderator hijacking, Need more colors!
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Bloody hell, Insurance by death of concord makes high sec suicide running possible, and profitable. Dont trash it, we need high sec suicide runs, its better for EvE. eve is a RP game. everything including insurance and conchord are made by expanding inward. Now tell me why you get paid for dying to the ploice. maybe something simple like cut the payout in half? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:14:00 - [13] I'm pretty sure that if the state patrol shot my car up because I robbed a bank Allstate wouldn't pay for it..... <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Mortuus Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:30:00 - [14] Because in a game where corps operate as nations, they don't care who they do business with. Capsuleers are above most laws other than who has the biggest guns. Each day we kill thousands of people in combat. Hell, one battleship lost is the size of a small town of about 6000 people. Where the Empires might only have 1 or 2 Titans, Capsuleer alliances may have 6-7. We have an agreement, within empire we accept that we may be shot, and the empires allow us to do our business there so we don't shoot them. Keeping the balance between the Empires and the 0.0 Capsuleer community is more important than those who live in Empire, feeding off it and returning nothing to it. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Foxy CEO Altcenaries	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, yum... irony... NBALT Recruitment
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:48:00 - [16] Originally by: Mortuus Because in a game where corps operate as nations, they don't care who they do business with. Capsuleers are above most laws other than who has the biggest guns. Each day we kill thousands of people in combat. Hell, one battleship lost is the size of a small town of about 6000 people. Where the Empires might only have 1 or 2 Titans, Capsuleer alliances may have 6-7. We have an agreement, within empire we accept that we may be shot, and the empires allow us to do our business there so we don't shoot them. Keeping the balance between the Empires and the 0.0 Capsuleer community is more important than those who live in Empire, feeding off it and returning nothing to it. problem there according to the lore the empires titans are about 3 times the size of a station. our titans are babies compared. the empires are not the ones that pay out our insurance. basicly we are asking, make eve harder, which a good thing. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:42:00 - [17] You'll find a lot of people who push for alterations to make life riskier only want EvE made harder for other people. Frankly the idea of insured suicide ganks is ridiculous. What kind of PR does it generate for an insurance company when they make payouts to pilots who repeatedly go up against "death by cop" taking several thousand people with them. All in the name of taking down relatively peaceful miners, haulers, and freighters. Asides from that it's just a lousy game-play mechanic and a lame replacement for what true piracy should be. Provide something in lo-sec that you can't get anywhere else (thus meaning the less people in lo-sec the more profit there is and the more people are tempted out there - population balance via the market) and as CCP mentioned before allow interdiction in lo-sec, which would also do something about a couple of other major piracy issues.
Foxy CEO Altcenaries	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf What kind of PR does it generate for an insurance company when they make payouts to pilots who repeatedly go up against "death by cop" taking several thousand people with them. All in the name of taking down relatively peaceful miners, haulers, and freighters. You violence my wallet, I violence your boat. NBALT Recruitment
Inn0cent Victim	Posted - 2007.07.21 21:52:00 - [19] hi mom CCPs new release "My Little Pony In Space" Thousands of players cannot wait to run missions, mine and other stuff in a fluffy pink universe of joy and fun.
Angelwhisper Caldari Genos Occidere	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Malicious Wraith Bloody hell, Insurance by death of concord makes high sec suicide running possible, and profitable. Dont trash it, we need high sec suicide runs, its better for EvE. Agree and omg is that really you!?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Inn0cent Victim hi mom hey ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:14:00 - [22] Edited by: Tarminic on 21/07/2007 22:14:38 Originally by: Inn0cent Victim hi mom My Little Pony in Space sucks. I prefer this game! ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Happydayz FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.21 22:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Originally by: Le Skunk So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? And he goes ratting for a while. rinse and repeat. You obviously have no idea how painful it is to grind back security status, even with 0.0 ratting.
Adaris Dark and Light inc.	Posted - 2007.07.21 23:48:00 - [24] If you lose a ship to concord you should get 1/2 platinum insurance. it simply does not make sense to get paid for committing a crime. Overhaul this feature. Please Help me, YOU could be next!
Plentimon Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.22 00:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Zeonos and how would this solve the problem?... the guy uses trail you say, if he blows a miner he can pick up loot and earn enugh for 10/20 new frigs. its a minor loss. only one getting hurt, are those suiciding freighters. And that's a bad thing? The point is right now even if you fail to take out the target before Concord pops you, your loss is minimal, it's not like there are a lot of suicide gankers out there using faction fittings,so you get the money to replace your ship and maybe have to drop a little extra on fittings. I have no problem with suicide ganking per se, but with the current insurance setting the way it is, all of the risk is on the haulers/miners, because the money isn't in their ships, it's in what they are carrying. The loss for the gankers is minimal if they fail, and the rewards great if they succeed.
Sebesto Minmatar Destination Unknown	Posted - 2007.07.22 00:30:00 - [26] Another thing about trial accounts. You shouldn't be able to lock anything other than a NPC in 0.5 - 1.0 space. This will prevent people from using an account they never plan on keeping and also prevent new players from accidently making a fatal flaw on their first few days.
Dulsung	Posted - 2007.07.22 00:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Adaris If you lose a ship to concord you should get 1/2 platinum insurance. it simply does not make sense to get paid for committing a crime. Overhaul this feature. Half plat? Hardly! You should get absolutely nothing, probably a fine actually for making CONCORD waste time and fuel and ammo on you.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.07.22 00:53:00 - [28] Mistakes do happen. I'm not a griefer and I've accidentally ****ed off concord myself. 1/2 the normal insurance payout sounds fair for everyone. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 00:55:00 - [29] His sec rating is going down, eventually he won't be welcome in empire. Easiest way to deal with ppl is just to go do something else for a bit.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 01:00:00 - [30] And oh by the way, highsec piracy is a valid profession in my eyes. Insurance payout is part of that profession's safety net. Nerfing X profession to help Y profession is not the answer.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.07.22 02:01:00 - [31] Quote: Dont trash it, we need high sec suicide runs, its better for EvE That's ignorant... Insurance should not be paid out when you get killed by the cops, it's an ignorant game mechanic. And the DEV's are stupid for leaving it that way. Building the homestead
FarScape III	Posted - 2007.07.22 02:24:00 - [32] I agree, there is no reason to think concord would allow someone to be insured that they just saw fit to blow up. It was a over site CCP you know that now fix it, when you get blown up by concord you do not get the insurance money/isk. A Minmater City... Cool! My Skills
Sasha Evergreen	Posted - 2007.07.22 02:56:00 - [33] You want CCP to fix suicide payouts? Abuse it. Go on and start grieving carebears yourself until they wine harder than you are right now. This is a serious solution. It's not against the rules, and you seem to think this is profitable, then do i yourself and tell your friends, when it becomes a big problem, CCP will fix it.
Plentimon Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.22 03:09:00 - [34] Originally by: Cipher7 And oh by the way, highsec piracy is a valid profession in my eyes. Insurance payout is part of that profession's safety net. Nerfing X profession to help Y profession is not the answer. That's *******. In that case they should bring cargo insurance to the game, as a 'safety net' for the miners/haulers. That way no one loses anything and everybody is happy. Pirating in highsec is supposed* to be risky, atm the worst that can happen is you lose a few thousand ISK in fitting, while the miners/haulers lose millions/possibly billions.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.22 03:30:00 - [35] Originally by: Frug Mistakes do happen. I'm not a griefer and I've accidentally ****ed off concord myself. 1/2 the normal insurance payout sounds fair for everyone. Meh...EVE provides you with convenient warnings if you are about to do something that would get you CONCORDed. If you turned off those warnings that's your own lookout but the safety net is there to avoid doing dumb things. If you do them anyway then live with the consequences. I have never heard CCP officially chime in on this topic. Wish they would. It makes absolutely no sense to give insurance payouts to suicide gankers. So, the only thing that makes sense is CCP Devs want people suicide ganking in Empire. Whether that is to enable better harassment of farmers or to 'encourage' people to get out of Empire or they just flat out despise Empire dwellers I have no idea.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:00:00 - [36] Originally by: Cipher7 And oh by the way, highsec piracy is a valid profession in my eyes. Insurance payout is part of that profession's safety net. Nerfing X profession to help Y profession is not the answer. High-sec piracy is a valid profession supported in full by the high-sec war-dec A safety net? Where is the safety net for the freighter pilots carrying billions in cargo? Nerfing X, a profession that has cropped up due to a lack of targets in lo-sec is certainly a good idea. Especially when it negatively impacts upon W, Y, and Z. It also causes a minority of people to disrupt a lot of the game for the majority of people. It's empire, it's full of carebears, they pay their subs, if pirates had their way just half the time empire would be as empty as lo-sec and EvE would loose a lot of subscribers.
Voodoo Mistross Minmatar Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:08:00 - [37] Originally by: Dulsung Originally by: Adaris If you lose a ship to concord you should get 1/2 platinum insurance. it simply does not make sense to get paid for committing a crime. Overhaul this feature. Half plat? Hardly! You should get absolutely nothing, probably a fine actually for making CONCORD waste time and fuel and ammo on you. /Signed ,
Demarcus Project Gemini Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:09:00 - [38] Edited by: Demarcus on 22/07/2007 11:10:37 Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Dont trash it, we need high sec suicide runs, its better for EvE That's ignorant... Insurance should not be paid out when you get killed by the cops, it's an ignorant game mechanic. And the DEV's are stupid for leaving it that way. /signed. It's like running from the cops in rl and thinking your insurance company is going to cover the damages to your car when the cops use one of their Crown Vics to put you into a wall. Or like saying the cops should have to pay for new tires because you ran and made them have to use spike strips to stop you. Not gonna ever happen. ------------------------------------- You are all worthless, and weak.
Amaron Ghant Caldari CyberDyne Industries Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:12:00 - [39] I'm all for going the whole hog and getting rid of insurance completely.
Venec Rave Technologies Inc. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Venec on 22/07/2007 11:16:20 Originally by: MotherMoon eve is a RP game. everything including insurance and conchord are made by expanding inward. Now tell me why you get paid for dying to the ploice. maybe something simple like cut the payout in half? Is EVE is RP game, then please allow me to run from Concord. Because, you know, no police in the world has 100% chance to catch criminals. And I'm not really into RP aspect of EVE, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Empire run completely by corporations with governments serving as a puppets? If so, wouldn't insurance company could care less if someone broke the law?
Natalia Fachiri Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:33:00 - [41] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. The farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting ****ed off with a stupid insurance system. To help you: make an alt, fly him to your system, set your clone there. Take the noob ship, fly to a belt, shoot a miner. The civilian gun will do nothing, but concord will intervene and pop the alt. and then concord will hang out in the belt for a while. 0 resonse time = instapopped aggressor. Word of warning thou, I dont know if this is considered an exploit.
Natalia Fachiri Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:35:00 - [42] Originally by: Venec Edited by: Venec on 22/07/2007 11:16:20 Originally by: MotherMoon Is EVE is RP game, then please allow me to run from Concord. Because, you know, no police in the world has 100% chance to catch criminals. And I'm not really into RP aspect of EVE, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Empire run completely by corporations with governments serving as a puppets? If so, wouldn't insurance company could care less if someone broke the law? Looking at it from the RP standpoint, why would a insurance company pay you if the police shoot your ship for breaking the law? The insurance company would look at hte bottom line and throw out any case like that in a heartbeat.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Natalia Fachiri To help you: make an alt, fly him to your system, set your clone there. Take the noob ship, fly to a belt, shoot a miner. The civilian gun will do nothing, but concord will intervene and pop the alt. and then concord will hang out in the belt for a while. 0 resonse time = instapopped aggressor. Word of warning thou, I dont know if this is considered an exploit. This tactic works and to my knowledge is not an exploit. However, eventually your ALT will get a sec status so low as to not be able to do that (won't take too long since CONCORD only hangs for about an hour if you're lucky). Recycling ALTs to avoid your sec status IS an exploit so your idea will work for a few hours of mining then you are back in the same boat you started.
Zebedee Jones	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:50:00 - [44] SCC shouldn't be paying out insurance that Concord or Navy or Customs ships have destroyed. Its a crazy concept, something that could have been changed years ago but was continually overlooked.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Cipher7 And oh by the way, highsec piracy is a valid profession in my eyes. Insurance payout is part of that profession's safety net. Nerfing X profession to help Y profession is not the answer. High-sec piracy is a valid profession supported in full by the high-sec war-dec A safety net? Where is the safety net for the freighter pilots carrying billions in cargo? Nerfing X, a profession that has cropped up due to a lack of targets in lo-sec is certainly a good idea. Especially when it negatively impacts upon W, Y, and Z. It also causes a minority of people to disrupt a lot of the game for the majority of people. It's empire, it's full of carebears, they pay their subs, if pirates had their way just half the time empire would be as empty as lo-sec and EvE would loose a lot of subscribers. With that logic, we shouldn't have Wardec either. If Eve was a PVE game we'd have 5,000,000 carebears knocking down our doors. You know a few years ago what the best selling video game was? Myst. I never played it. Never met anybody who played it. But somehow, Myst was selling out in Walmart stores across the country. If every game based its success on # of sales we would have no video games out there except Deer Hunter, Myst, The Sims and World of Warcraft. What about the rest of us? What about the non-consentual PVP crowd? Where's our game? Oh yeah, it's Eve. If you really hate non-consentual PVP you are in luck, because %95 of the games out there cater to your kind. Luckily Eve exists for the other %5.
Irob Urore Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.07.22 11:56:00 - [46] /signed .. risk versus reward, will require some thought on the part of these suicidal gankers if they plan to throw away there next ship for that big score.
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:02:00 - [47] /signed Get rid of insurance payout when killed by CONCORD. 'Legit' high sec gankers out for the profitable kill can still do so if they want to, but at least this gets rid of the idiots. EVE History Wiki
Human Cattle	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:04:00 - [48] /semisigned accidents happen, and no insurance could really hurt a player. but what about people who build thier habbitation modules on a flood plain uhm?
Plentimon Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:08:00 - [49] Edited by: Plentimon on 22/07/2007 12:10:13 Originally by: Cipher7 What about the rest of us? What about the non-consentual PVP crowd? Where's our game? Oh yeah, it's Eve. If you really hate non-consentual PVP you are in luck, because %95 of the games out there cater to your kind. Luckily Eve exists for the other %5. Nobody, well no one but the true carebears is arguing that PVP should be completely disabled in High-Sec, or even that suicide ganking should be impossible. What is being argued is that there should be some kind of risk if you try it and fail, where at present there is none. If the miner/hauler fails to get away, the cost of the ship is generally going to be far less than the cost of what he was carrying if you decided it was a worthile target, and there is no 'safety net' for that. Meanwhile if you as a ganker fail to pop them before Concord gets you, you get the money to buy a new ship dumped directly to your wallet and you just have to shell out a bit extra for fittings. TBH, if you call yourself a pirate but want the game to provide you a 'safety net' so you can't really lose anything, you'd probably be far more at home among the much derided 'carebears'.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:14:00 - [50] hummm... i'm not sure about "no insurance payout at all" i'd favor a forfeit of any insurance upgrade though - putting the gist back into logistics
Brutor Shaun	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Human Cattle /semisigned accidents happen, and no insurance could really hurt a player. but what about people who build thier habbitation modules on a flood plain uhm? They tend to become un-insurable, like the property of many of the residents of my home town which has been flooded several times. Insurance companies won't touch them with the ****ty end of a stick. Bookmark Idea - My skills
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:21:00 - [52] There should not be a single penny for ships destroyed by concord. Not even the default 50% insurance. The maximum I would see as viable would be a refund of the insurance fee. And this should not even hamper the professional suicide gankers that do it for a living very much, only the griefing bandwagon crowd that we all would be better off without anyway. I know that if I could bring myself to be a total ******* in a game I would easily get rich suicide ganking even if I did not get insurance. And the people falling victims to accidents? Their own fault. They either disabled warnings, or did something terminally stupid. In my almost two years of EVE I have only once come close to being concorded because of the latter, and I sure as hell would have deserved to lose my ship and its insurance for that. It is easy to avoid, you just have to be careful and pay attention to what you are doing. And isnt that exactly what the PvPers always advocate? That lazyness, negligence and inattention should be punished? That goes BOTH ways you know. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Venec Rave Technologies Inc. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Natalia Fachiri Looking at it from the RP standpoint, why would a insurance company pay you if the police shoot your ship for breaking the law? The insurance company would look at hte bottom line and throw out any case like that in a heartbeat. To quote myself: Originally by: Venec And I'm not really into RP aspect of EVE, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Empire run completely by corporations with governments serving as a puppets? If so, wouldn't insurance company could care less if someone broke the law? That is assuming that corporations have governments in their pockets. Think Weyland-Yutani ;]
Jade190	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:30:00 - [54] Maybe if you get the ** out of empire you wouldn't have to deal with suicides. You wanna talk about risks, but don't want to take any yourself. You want empire to be 100% safe for you so you can make money without any risk to you. If you take insurance off of CONCORDed ships, then all empire operation should then yield 10% of the profit they make today. STOP CAREBEARING AND GO PLAY THE ***** GAME!
Brutor Shaun	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Jade190 STOP CAREBEARING AND GO PLAY THE ******* GAME! AFAIK, Eve is a freeform game, where the player makes what they want of it. How you play, how I play, how all the other subscribers play, is up to them. It's your/my/their money. Use it how you want. Bookmark Idea - My skills
Ralgimanek	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:43:00 - [56] Pirates=Biggest Carebears They only go after what can't shoot back, turn tail and run the first sign of a fair fight. That is not PvP its just pathetic. Need to implement some balance into the game end the insurance payments at all for being popped by concord and then get podded. Then high sec gankers will actually have to balance risk vs reward like everyone else int the game.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:52:00 - [57] Originally by: Plentimon Nobody, well no one but the true carebears is arguing that PVP should be completely disabled in High-Sec, or even that suicide ganking should be impossible. What is being argued is that there should be some kind of risk if you try it and fail, where at present there is none. If the miner/hauler fails to get away, the cost of the ship is generally going to be far less than the cost of what he was carrying if you decided it was a worthile target, and there is no 'safety net' for that. Meanwhile if you as a ganker fail to pop them before Concord gets you, you get the money to buy a new ship dumped directly to your wallet and you just have to shell out a bit extra for fittings. TBH, if you call yourself a pirate but want the game to provide you a 'safety net' so you can't really lose anything, you'd probably be far more at home among the much derided 'carebears'. Insurance isn't so much a safety net as part of the profit/loss statement for a criminal organization. Removing insurance would simply make highsec piracy less profitable. How profitable is it now? How many hours does one have to camp a gate? How many people do you need? How often do you need to go work on your sec rating? What's the success rate? How much profit is split? Its easy to sit there and say, "Oh its too easy, theres no risk blah blah" Well go do it. You think its easy money? Go do it. Hey I fly haulers just like you do. I deal with it just like you. But I understand that the grass is not always greener on the other side, that everything isn't as easy or risk-free as people imagine it is. Lets not kid ourselves. The real motivation behind "suggestions" such as "lets remove insurance for concord blah blah" is an attempt to remove highsec ganking by making it less profitable.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:58:00 - [58] Originally by: Ralgimanek Pirates=Biggest Carebears They only go after what can't shoot back, turn tail and run the first sign of a fair fight. That is not PvP its just pathetic. Need to implement some balance into the game end the insurance payments at all for being popped by concord and then get podded. Then high sec gankers will actually have to balance risk vs reward like everyone else int the game. Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it. /me waits for the million excuses ppl come up with for why they aren't doing a profession they claim is so easy and risk-free. Why aren't the 20-some odd whiners in this thread doing any highsec ganking themselves? Since it seems its SOOOOO easy, profitable and risk free. I mean what have you got to lose? Insurance pays you back. Go do it.
Zeonos Amarr Fairtrade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:29:00 - [59] Originally by: Venec Is EVE is RP game, then please allow me to run from Concord. Because, you know, no police in the world has 100% chance to catch criminals. And I'm not really into RP aspect of EVE, so correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Empire run completely by corporations with governments serving as a puppets? If so, wouldn't insurance company could care less if someone broke the law? well now this is far in the future, where the police have better scanning abilities. and arive on the scene of crime a bit faster than normal police does. Look I Hijacked a sig!! -Kaemonn <3 Kaemonn -Zeonos A sunset with Kaemonn... how nice... -Wachtmeister In Eve-Online Forum Hijack Signature! -Ivan K This space is reserved for moderator hijacking, Need more colors!
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:39:00 - [60] Why would any insurance company company insure a pilot who is incapable of defending himself? Remove all insurance from miners, haulers and other bears, please.
Barkode Fourth Dimension	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:44:00 - [61] If you want to do your part, keep this insignificant filth off the forums. -----
Slaatibartfast Chimp Logistics	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:46:00 - [62] Edited by: Slaatibartfast on 22/07/2007 15:47:05 Insurance companies are private enterprises, the police force is , as such, not at liberty to tell them who to insure and who not to insure, as always the choice is down to the company. All insurance in eve is based on the concept of your ship getting destroyed; due to the ways in which ships can be lost, the fact that they can get blown up in any sec level and the fact that engaging in "un-authorised pvp" (non empire war combat), or even committing suicide will still result in receiving a payout...... ....we can conclude that insurance has nothing to do with the legal system in eve, that insurance companies operate without specific moral and ethical guidelines (other than those of equal opportunity to all and maintaining customer satisfaction [read: paying people who bought a policy]), eve works on ultra-capitalism, as such private corporations hold the isk and the power, the cops are small-fry and not the decision makers; basically stfu and stop whining. If anyone refutes this I shall be forced to make up something even more convoluted to justify the supremacy of private enterprise over a puny police force, don't make me do it.
Tallen Zek	Posted - 2007.07.22 15:54:00 - [63] Edited by: Tallen Zek on 22/07/2007 15:54:38 I agree with the point of this topic and disagree, You all need to take into acount that insurence is a privet company and there is the accosional newer player or miss click with warnings off, i think that concord should stay the way it is, and after 5 ship destructions in 3 days the insurence can and should say your a liability and force you to wait 5 days.. Now on the POINT OF A MANIAC SUISIDING EVERYONE..sorry caps..insurence dose not cover the full loss only give or take 80% of the ships price(none of the equip) so if that guy has that kind of isk to burn, im sure if he could keep suisiding without insurence and prolly is.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.22 18:53:00 - [64] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/07/2007 18:54:12 Originally by: Cipher7 Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it I know this concept might be hard to grasp for people like you, but some people actually have a conscience and can not simply turn it off and enjoy ruining someone elses day because it is 'just a game'... I know I could get rich isk-wise easily doing it, but I also know that I would probably quit the game after the first success because I could not look at myself in the mirror anymore. As for insurances being private companies, that is EXACTLY one good point FOR the removal of insurance payout on concording. Those companies are out for profit, and they certainly would jump at ANY chance that would allow them not to pay the insurance. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Yagyu Retsudo	Posted - 2007.07.22 19:13:00 - [65] Edited by: Yagyu Retsudo on 22/07/2007 19:14:40 Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Sircumwenting the sec-rate by using throw-away alts are a bannable offence afaik. It may be, but it's unenforceable. Unless the guy starts bragging in local 'lulz gais I*****bak with anuthur alt' there's not much proof to be had. You can claim its skill, and I'll agree that in some cases we are talking about morons here, people who don't understand the flagging system, etc. - but the abuse of alts and disposable trials is a bit much. Use the throwaway to bait CONCORD into a faroff belt a moment before you attack your target = delayed reaction, more time to kill. Oh noes I lost my T1 fitted BS - who cares? 80% return from insurance and if I got my BS popped I knew damn well that the return was worth it. Time to hop on main account, pull up hauler and profit. In other words, its like piracy easymode (aka no risk) for NPC corp carebear alts and various and sundry other lowlifes. Add in how easy it is to exploit CONCORDs response time when running multiple accounts and you have a problem.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.22 19:44:00 - [66] Didn't read the thread, but I know there are going to be people in here arguing using either RL comparisons or RP reasoning. To these people: STFU. It's a game mechanic. It doesn't make any kind of sense. It's not meant to. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:49:00 - [67] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. The farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting ***ed off with a stupid insurance system. For God's sake. Look, whatever else the "EvE insurance" is, it certainly isn't insurance in any sense that we know it here. If you disagree, please tell me where I can insure anything* for a one-time 30% premium of a payout for more than I paid for the item. Please - I need the money! Breaking the 4th wall: it's a game mechanic designed to keep people able to play at some level no matter how poor their luck/skill/judgement is. If you want to think of it as a pre-paid salvage contract on the minerals in the insured ship that's merely named insurance, then do that if it makes you happier. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:50:00 - [68] Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. The farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting ***ed off with a stupid insurance system. For God's sake. Look, whatever else the "EvE insurance" is, it certainly isn't insurance in any sense that we know it here. If you disagree, please tell me where I can insure anything* for a one-time 30% premium of a payout for more than I paid for the item. Please - I need the money! Breaking the 4th wall: it's a game mechanic designed to keep people able to play at some level no matter how poor their luck/skill/judgement is. If you want to think of it as a pre-paid salvage contract on the minerals in the insured ship that's merely named insurance, then do that if it makes you happier. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis High4Life	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:50:00 - [69] Edited by: Malcanis on 22/07/2007 20:52:10 EDT: Eve forum script makes me weep. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:08:00 - [70] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/07/2007 18:54:12 Originally by: Cipher7 Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it I know this concept might be hard to grasp for people like you, but some people actually have a conscience and can not simply turn it off and enjoy ruining someone elses day because it is 'just a game'... I know I could get rich isk-wise easily doing it, but I also know that I would probably quit the game after the first success because I could not look at myself in the mirror anymore. Bull. If highsec piracy would cause pangs on your "conscience" then do lowsec piracy. You know, lowsec, where you get a warning popup window so everyone knows the risks. Do 0.0 piracy. Go into 0.0 where all the big bad alliances live, you know the ones that camp gates and kill people like you, and go gank one of their miners. Excuses excuses. "Piracy is so easy and I can do it and get rich but I have a conscience." Yeah RIGHT, ya blowhard, blow a little harder why dont ya.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:20:00 - [71] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/07/2007 18:54:12 Originally by: Cipher7 Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it I know this concept might be hard to grasp for people like you, but some people actually have a conscience and can not simply turn it off and enjoy ruining someone elses day because it is 'just a game'... I know I could get rich isk-wise easily doing it, but I also know that I would probably quit the game after the first success because I could not look at myself in the mirror anymore. Bull. If highsec piracy would cause pangs on your "conscience" then do lowsec piracy. You know, lowsec, where you get a warning popup window so everyone knows the risks. Do 0.0 piracy. Go into 0.0 where all the big bad alliances live, you know the ones that camp gates and kill people like you, and go gank one of their miners. Excuses excuses. "Piracy is so easy and I can do it and get rich but I have a conscience." Yeah RIGHT, ya blowhard, blow a little harder why dont ya. Well, I knew you would not understand it. Besides, lowsec piracy is still piracy so also a nono for me. It doesn't have anything to do with others knowing the risk you know, it has to do with empathy? Feeling bad for someone elses loss? Another thing you won't understand probably. I am sure when you see a pedestrian crossing the street on a red light you try to run him over because he 'knows the risk' ? There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:24:00 - [72] Originally by: Hannobaal I agree. If you lose your ship to Concord, you should not get insurance. But first yu have to make Concord 'smarter' to prevent every little mistake from having dire consequences, especially for new players. _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. -
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:29:00 - [73] Originally by: Yagyu Retsudo Originally by: Le Skunk So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? SKUNK Yeah, then he can make another trial. I wish EVE had some sort of method to contact the GMs about things like trial acct abuse or alt recycling. Surely, such a system shall one day be in place.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:31:00 - [74] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 22/07/2007 21:31:05 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well, I knew you would not understand it. Besides, lowsec piracy is still piracy so also a nono for me. It doesn't have anything to do with others knowing the risk you know, it has to do with empathy? Feeling bad for someone elses loss? Another thing you won't understand probably. I am sure when you see a pedestrian crossing the street on a red light you try to run him over because he 'knows the risk' ? /facepalm - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 21:47:00 - [75] As for the rest of ya. People who have never done a profession should not comment on that profession. I can respect that it sucks to get ganked in highsec. Don't twist your pain into stupidity. Just because another profession once affected you negatively doesn't make it negative. The average builder/trader/miner/etc who regularly carries stuff through empire for profit. You might make 100 successful profitable trade runs, and get ganked on 1 of those runs. Think logically. If %1 of your ore is stolen, is that really such a horrible amount of loss for a profession? Risk management. If you consider a %10 loss to be normal, do highsec traders/manufacturers really have anything to complain about? Should there be SOME percentage of loss? What is that percentage? 1 percent? 5 percent? Are we shooting for a %100 loss free game where nobody EVER loses a hauler? Removing concord insurance, you know who will suffer? Who is going to suffer? Mostly carebears, mish runners and new players. Whoops, had module hot-loaded and did not notice the green. Targets someone's can by accident. No insurance for jooooo. Whoops, using smart bomb in mission, some guy in cov ops comes flying in your sb range. Concordokken, No insurance for joooo. The pirates will simply take the profit/loss into account and you will still be here whining. They will simply make less profit.
Kizbet	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:04:00 - [76] Notice how they're all "but what about some noob making a mistake" to not removing insurance payouts for a Concording... But when one of those noobs in their hauler gets suicide ganked by them it's "live and learn!". It's hypocrisy, and yet another welfare handout for pirates, yet another I-WIN button for CCP's favorite pets. Give me the ability to set my prices higher on the market for corps/players I don't care for. Give me the ability to refuse to sell to them at all. Give me the ability to shield my cargo bay. Then we'll talk market PvP, won't we ? Till then, anyone who says "Market PvP" should be beaten senseless with a sock full of veldspar. No payout for a Concording, end pirate welfare. -Kiz
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:12:00 - [77] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Well, I knew you would not understand it. Besides, lowsec piracy is still piracy so also a nono for me. It doesn't have anything to do with others knowing the risk you know, it has to do with empathy? Feeling bad for someone elses loss? Another thing you won't understand probably. I am sure when you see a pedestrian crossing the street on a red light you try to run him over because he 'knows the risk' ? When I shoot someone, I fully expect to be able to go to a bar with him afterwards and have a beer. I don't shoot people to cause them emotional anguish in RL. The assumption is we are consenting adults playing a pvp video game. Could be him ganking me, could be me ganking him. Any ship I undock with is automatically considered a loss. If I'm not ok to lose it, I don't undock with it. This morning I took a t1 hauler filled with 300m worth of stuff from 0.0 to my preferred trading location to sell. It was a total rush, my heart was pounding out of my chest, I was screaming and hollering, giddy from the rush, I was like "YEAH MOTHERF@CKERS YEAH YOU CANT TOUCH THIS." I mean that's what I play Eve for man. Its a total freakin rush. And if they had got me, I woulda been bummed out for about 15 seconds, then I'd go eat pancakes and watch cartoons. I don't really understand people who are like "feeling of loss, empathy." Dude are you playing a video game or working a second job?
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:28:00 - [78] Originally by: Kizbet But when one of those noobs in their hauler gets suicide ganked by them it's "live and learn!". Industrialists have the best position in the game. When people like me lose a ship, people like you get paid. How much money you got? Prolly 50 times more than me. Yeah keep workin that "woe is me" speech.
Santa Anna Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.07.22 22:39:00 - [79] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: Hannobaal I agree. If you lose your ship to Concord, you should not get insurance. But first yu have to make Concord 'smarter' to prevent every little mistake from having dire consequences, especially for new players. How about concord only gets dispatched when a crime has been completed (ship destruction) and destroys all involved? That would prevent a little mistake from killing a ship and eliminate the need for pirate insurance. _____ CPU Love
Speed Devil Caldari Mean Machines	Posted - 2007.07.22 23:14:00 - [80] i got a question is this thread about me suiciding hulks and covetors in gulfonodi? http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Speed+Devil if it is, well i just got wardecced by a 16 member corp
Willow Whisp Sadist Faction	Posted - 2007.07.22 23:16:00 - [81] I do wonder, when insurance stops being payed out, and suicide ganks continue to happen, what will you whine about next? ... Sadist Faction is recruiting
Sam kiwi	Posted - 2007.07.23 00:02:00 - [82] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Brutor Shaun Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 21/07/2007 17:25:08 One of the world's villages has lost it's idiot, and he's turned up in my local area. And what does he spend all day doing? Buying and insuring ships, then flying round the belts trying to blow up miners before Concord arrive and blow him up. rinse and repeat. It's getting very boring reading his e-peen crap in local, and miners new and old have no real comeback against the guy. He's out to get blown up, so war deccing him and blowing him up achieves nothing. The farce of insurance payouts after death-by-Concord should be scrapped. Suicide ganking needs some sort of reprisal. BTW, I'm not one of the miners who's suffering at the hands of this fool. Just a resident who's getting ***ed off with a stupid insurance system. For God's sake. Look, whatever else the "EvE insurance" is, it certainly isn't insurance in any sense that we know it here. If you disagree, please tell me where I can insure anything* for a one-time 30% premium of a payout for more than I paid for the item. Please - I need the money! Breaking the 4th wall: it's a game mechanic designed to keep people able to play at some level no matter how poor their luck/skill/judgement is. If you want to think of it as a pre-paid salvage contract on the minerals in the insured ship that's merely named insurance, then do that if it makes you happier. Then Mabey CCP should change it to be more like the insurance we do know(ie RL insurance). Scc atm are def taking a major loss with the way they do opperate. The best way to do it probably would be to increase insurance costs for people who lose their ships often. But to also do a security check, like all insurance companies do, and charge more for those who do have a negitave sec status. This would mean any noobs who make mistakes would still get the full amount back at least 1 time, and mabey even a few more times. You would also be able to decrease the amount u have to pay in insurance by never losing ships etc, but thats rearly gona happen. PS Quote: Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/07/2007 18:54:12 Originally by: Cipher7 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then go do it, big boy. Everybody who thinks piracy is so easy should stfu and go do it -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know this concept might be hard to grasp for people like you, but some people actually have a conscience and can not simply turn it off and enjoy ruining someone elses day because it is 'just a game'... I know I could get rich isk-wise easily doing it, but I also know that I would probably quit the game after the first success because I could not look at myself in the mirror anymore. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bull. If highsec piracy would cause pangs on your "conscience" then do lowsec piracy. You know, lowsec, where you get a warning popup window so everyone knows the risks. Do 0.0 piracy. Go into 0.0 where all the big bad alliances live, you know the ones that camp gates and kill people like you, and go gank one of their miners. Excuses excuses. "Piracy is so easy and I can do it and get rich but I have a conscience." Yeah RIGHT, ya blowhard, blow a little harder why dont ya. With this issue not everyone wants to go around shooting at people, or even npc's for that matter. Some people do actully enjoy making the markets work for them, or even mining . Everyone is not alike, so not everyone will actully like pirating, just like not everyone likes mining, or exploring etc etc etc. CCP have done a great job making a game that caters to alot of diff people.
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.23 00:05:00 - [83] They should jsut remove insurrance form the game...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:07:00 - [84] Originally by: William Hamilton They should jsut remove insurrance form the game... you win eve ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
FieldDocter	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:58:00 - [85] What a grand group we have here. I don't have much to say, other than forget it. It's just a game, and I expect to enjoy it. Please call me a baby, please do. Call me a carebear, call me whatever you would like. I don't have much in the area of ISK, and as far as my fighting abilities and mission running, very minimal. Now, the day a pirate can come to me and thank me for allowing them to continue "ganking" by continuing to play the game, hell maybe I'll even feel appreciated as cannon fodder. I guess maybe I'm not the baby... but hey pirates - don't forget, you may make money off of your kills and even if you don't complain when others burst your bubble someone's out of a ship, either way. Enjoy the pointless babble that is Doc's rant. Later.
Arenthia D'naga	Posted - 2007.07.23 04:48:00 - [86] Originally by: Happydayz You obviously have no idea how painful it is to grind back security status, even with 0.0 ratting. Try it in the drone regions.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 04:50:00 - [87] Originally by: Gypsio III Why would any insurance company company insure a pilot who is incapable of defending himself? Remove all insurance from miners, haulers and other bears, please. in a way I agree insurance should be based on what you were doing when you lost it. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 05:24:00 - [88] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Gypsio III Why would any insurance company company insure a pilot who is incapable of defending himself? Remove all insurance from miners, haulers and other bears, please. in a way I agree insurance should be based on what you were doing when you lost it. concord doesnt pay your insurance a separate professional company does they dont care if you skin kittens for a living they make business with you ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
Chaos Incarnate	Posted - 2007.07.23 05:34:00 - [89] This thread is a truckload of fail. Insurance is a mechanic to limit ship loss penalties. Its not RL insurance by any means, and it would be a silly change to make it more like it (it'd basically be removing it). I mean, if it was, your insurance would be canceled when you were wardec'd, when you enter lowsec, when NPC/PC pirates shoot at you, when you self destruct, when you carry contraband, when you carry high value cargo, etc, etc. In short, this fancy RL-inspired EVE insurance would protect against...well, if there's a bug and your ship explodes for no reason in the middle of nowhere, which is quite well dealt with the reimbursement petition. And anyway, suicide ganking has a reprisal; both sec status loss and the 30d free-reverse-kill; if he blows you up for no reason, you get 30 whole days to gank his ship once. Get a few miners to gang up, and I'm certain even their carebeary hearts can blow up your suicide ganker.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.23 06:20:00 - [90] Originally by: Happydayz Originally by: Brutor Shaun Originally by: Le Skunk So after a few kills his sec standing will drop and prevent him from coming in ? And he goes ratting for a while. rinse and repeat. You obviously have no idea how painful it is to grind back security status, even with 0.0 ratting. If it is so painful me can avoid the pain treating it like the standing with empires or corporations. You goo too low you don't return back. I fount very ridicul the hard and all-mighty PvPers that need the insurance crutch or they can't make a profit in empire. Well pirating in the N.Y. hardor don't give a profit, only a lot of years of jail. Today pirates operate in the Eritrean waters, or the water of similar third word nations. In ports like San Diego or NY the criminls do withe collars crimes, scams, smuggling, fraud. That is the balance EVE should have.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.23 06:32:00 - [91] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/07/2007 06:34:05 Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Kizbet But when one of those noobs in their hauler gets suicide ganked by them it's "live and learn!". Industrialists have the best position in the game. When people like me lose a ship, people like you get paid. How much money you got? Prolly 50 times more than me. Yeah keep workin that "woe is me" speech. Stronzate, and you know it perfectly. T1 ship production has a 5% or less return, module production has a similar reutrn, only T2 production has a decent return, and only for some module. Market undercutting keep the priuces very low, so you whining that you don't earn enough is really absurd. Hig sek ganking should be allowed, but not subsided by the insurance company. If you need a external subsidy to keep in business you aren't a "pirate", you are someone employee like the mission runners you so hate. BTW, getting payd by NPC to suicide gank is exactly like getting paid to run missions.
Pax Uranus Sofa.Kingdom	Posted - 2007.07.23 06:41:00 - [92] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Gypsio III Why would any insurance company company insure a pilot who is incapable of defending himself? Remove all insurance from miners, haulers and other bears, please. in a way I agree insurance should be based on what you were doing when you lost it. concord doesnt pay your insurance a separate professional company does they dont care if you skin kittens for a living they make business with you Technically, they run a really bad business. Combine "default" free insurance and then add in that, as a company, they're likely to only make money on insurance contracts that are completed with no payout (insurance that runs out before your ship dies - yeah, right lol) and you end up with "insurance" companies that hemorrhage money and customers who make out like bandits. If only it were like that in the real world :(
Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.23 06:45:00 - [93] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Gypsio III Why would any insurance company company insure a pilot who is incapable of defending himself? Remove all insurance from miners, haulers and other bears, please. in a way I agree insurance should be based on what you were doing when you lost it. concord doesnt pay your insurance a separate professional company does they dont care if you skin kittens for a living they make business with you BS - you people really sound dumb - so it's a private company and which private company would repeatedly pay insurance to mongrels that intentionally commit suicide, because it's called suicide ganking for a reason. Insurance is covering risk, that's why you pay part of what the ship is worth, not all of it. The moment you intentionally destroy that ship risk goes out the window - no insurance company would pay you a dime, otherwise they would logically go broke, i.e. giving away several times more money than they get. So all the idiots claiming that just because insurance is a private business that has nothing to do with Concord or the governments - go check your head with a doctor... or grow something in it and then go check it... Pirates really ARE the biggest whining carebears in this game - they want it easy in every way, there is really one (1) penalty for being a pirate - not being able to enter hi-sec every now and then, and you even get paid for "fixing" your sec-rating by ratting, which is another idiotic game mechanic. Why are criminals paid by Concord of all entities for killing other criminals? Can you imagine a one-year ("ratting") conflict between, say, the Angel Cartel and the Guristas - by the time they're done killing each other Concord would fund their leaders so much, both of them, and would increase their sec-rating so high that the leaders of the gangs'd be both richer and better friends of Concord than any non-government entity... right? Would make perfect sense... Go on whining, little pirate crying carebears, play your hypocritical game of pretending others are such... Oh, and Cypher7 - you think industrialists have it easier - go play one and come back in an year. I'm looking forward to your excuses as to why you cannot/will not do that even though piracy is supposed to soooooooooooooooo hard and blah-blah... As for your comment - when you lose a ship you get your money back + whatever profit you made commiting suicide, the easy-going industrialist gets back the money for the ship and loses the value of whatever was in it when it blew up. Yes, pirates have it real hard, so hard one has to pity them for their continued whining... One funny question - since every pirate here seems to be strangely inclined to compare the game to RL when it pleases them and not when it doesn't - if there were no clones or alts in this game - would you still commit suicide ganking, you know - like in RL? Because it's exactly the flawed game mechanics that allow you to do it...
Arenthia D'naga	Posted - 2007.07.23 10:34:00 - [94] Dude, your face... (mandatory reply)
Jhonen Senraedi Minmatar Vaapad Shinobis Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 11:37:00 - [95] Yep..It's hard being a pirate..I mean...being unable to enter hi-sec issuch a pain...oh wait...I forgot..I can use one of my many alts! Paying insurance on suiciders is stupid...no company with any business acumen whatsoever would do it...Nor would CONCORD or the respective factions look favourably on companies that openly aided and abetted criminals. People always come up with the counter to any Real Life comparisons by saying..It's a game...well..a game based on the advancement of humans and such..ergo grounded in our current reality...and If grounded in a reality where payments for a suicide are refused/Police seize a criminal's assets..surely..it is a logical path that payments for illegal ventures(Suicide Ganking)are removed. There is also a case for Pilots with pirate/outlaw status being kicked from certain NPC corps...any faction navy/training schools etc...but that is another debate and until certain aspects of logical realism are brought in..it is,like disposable alts,fine for people to hide in NPC corps without fear of retribution.
Foxy CEO Altcenaries	Posted - 2007.07.23 12:30:00 - [96] Originally by: Pax Uranus Technically, they run a really bad business. Combine "default" free insurance and then add in that, as a company, they're likely to only make money on insurance contracts that are completed with no payout (insurance that runs out before your ship dies - yeah, right lol) and you end up with "insurance" companies that hemorrhage money and customers who make out like bandits. If only it were like that in the real world :( Something like 90% of my insured ships last beyond their initial contract or are repackaged for moving. I'm a bit more risk averse than normal, but not terribly so. Granted, I normally have a dozen or so different ships/setups at any time, so I'm less efficient in my insurance spending than someone who always flies the same ship. My insurers have almost certainly made a profit from me, though, and I'd imagine most empire dwellers are more profitable for security co's than I am. NBALT Recruitment
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.23 12:36:00 - [97] I only bother to insure battleships just before taking them out into battle. Can't be bothered to insure anything else since i have 30+ combat ship scattered across half the map. Insurance is indeed a bit of a crap system. On the other hand, removing it entirely (which I would prefer to be honest) is too big a step IMO to take at this point in time. What I would do is remove platinum insurance and see if Eve still works without it. Insurance is a pretty central and integrated system, I would start addressing it in small steps. Don't give out new platinum insurance contracts (current ones should be honored of course) and see what happens. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 12:38:00 - [98] Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi Yep..It's hard being a pirate..I mean...being unable to enter hi-sec issuch a pain...oh wait...I forgot..I can use one of my many alts! Paying insurance on suiciders is stupid...no company with any business acumen whatsoever would do it...Nor would CONCORD or the respective factions look favourably on companies that openly aided and abetted criminals. People always come up with the counter to any Real Life comparisons by saying..It's a game...well..a game based on the advancement of humans and such..ergo grounded in our current reality...and If grounded in a reality where payments for a suicide are refused/Police seize a criminal's assets..surely..it is a logical path that payments for illegal ventures(Suicide Ganking)are removed. There is also a case for Pilots with pirate/outlaw status being kicked from certain NPC corps...any faction navy/training schools etc...but that is another debate and until certain aspects of logical realism are brought in..it is,like disposable alts,fine for people to hide in NPC corps without fear of retribution. Yeah lets remove crime from Eve. Then we can all have a mining op and eat pie. Won't that be fun. What is highsec ganking? It's simply crime. Should there be no Crime in Eve? Should there be no robbery? In New York City there are 40,000 cops, but people still get robbed, carjacked, murdered, corruption, embezzlement and so forth. Highsec ganking is one of the Eve approximations of Crime. Why does insurance pay criminal? I dunno, why does insurance pay the Mafia when they burn down their own store? Because they're the Mafia. Because Crime always finds a way. No matter how many jails they build, no matter how many cops, there will always be crime. I suppose its possible to remove crime from Eve. We can make it so if you try to shoot anybody you get a "sorry you cannot do that" above your head. Yet Crime is specifically allowed. Why is that? Because Crime is what makes Eve Eve. Here you CAN be a criminal. I'm not a criminal but I would not want to play any game where there is no crime, no robbery and so forth. Solution : Get a thicken skin, grow a brain, manage your risks, only undock with what you can afford to lose, and stop being lazy. If you take 200m worth of stuff in a ship that costs more than 200m to gank, they cant gank you. Cost/Benefit ratio. If you take 1b worth of stuff in t1 indy to Jita, its like walking down a dark alley with a Rolex. You are just plain asking for it. Welcome to Eve.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.07.23 12:44:00 - [99] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi Yep..It's hard being a pirate..I mean...being unable to enter hi-sec issuch a pain...oh wait...I forgot..I can use one of my many alts! Paying insurance on suiciders is stupid...no company with any business acumen whatsoever would do it...Nor would CONCORD or the respective factions look favourably on companies that openly aided and abetted criminals. People always come up with the counter to any Real Life comparisons by saying..It's a game...well..a game based on the advancement of humans and such..ergo grounded in our current reality...and If grounded in a reality where payments for a suicide are refused/Police seize a criminal's assets..surely..it is a logical path that payments for illegal ventures(Suicide Ganking)are removed. There is also a case for Pilots with pirate/outlaw status being kicked from certain NPC corps...any faction navy/training schools etc...but that is another debate and until certain aspects of logical realism are brought in..it is,like disposable alts,fine for people to hide in NPC corps without fear of retribution. Yeah lets remove crime from Eve. Then we can all have a mining op and eat pie. Won't that be fun. What is highsec ganking? It's simply crime. Should there be no Crime in Eve? Should there be no robbery? In New York City there are 40,000 cops, but people still get robbed, carjacked, murdered, corruption, embezzlement and so forth. Highsec ganking is one of the Eve approximations of Crime. Why does insurance pay criminal? I dunno, why does insurance pay the Mafia when they burn down their own store? Because they're the Mafia. Because Crime always finds a way. No matter how many jails they build, no matter how many cops, there will always be crime. I suppose its possible to remove crime from Eve. We can make it so if you try to shoot anybody you get a "sorry you cannot do that" above your head. Yet Crime is specifically allowed. Why is that? Because Crime is what makes Eve Eve. Here you CAN be a criminal. I'm not a criminal but I would not want to play any game where there is no crime, no robbery and so forth. Solution : Get a thicken skin, grow a brain, manage your risks, only undock with what you can afford to lose, and stop being lazy. If you take 200m worth of stuff in a ship that costs more than 200m to gank, they cant gank you. Cost/Benefit ratio. If you take 1b worth of stuff in t1 indy to Jita, its like walking down a dark alley with a Rolex. You are just plain asking for it. Welcome to Eve. Nobody is saying there should be no crime. If they said that, they wouldn't ask for removal of insurance for suicide gankers, they'd ask for making it impossible to shoot people in highsec. I think the difference is this. If you walk around with a Rolex in the Bronx, you're kinda asking for it, ok. But what about the old lady walking home with a big bag of groceries, is that also 'asking for it'? Or the homeless guy with a 6 pack of beer next to him on the park-bench, is he 'asking for it'? The matter of suicide ganking and insurance only determines the level of loot at which crime becomes profitable, and not the question whether crime will occur. An iteron 5 with 2 billion in cargo getting suicided by a caracal, insurance or not would be irrelevant. Removing insurance for suicide gankers will just make the marginally profitable gankings disappear and reduce the suicide gank to being used against extremely high prized targets who don't defend their stuff well enough. ------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 12:47:00 - [100] Originally by: Cipher7 I liked this part Solution : Get a thicken skin, grow a brain, manage your risks, only undock with what you can afford to lose, and stop being lazy. err ok then do it without insurance. no one said no ganking in highse. -oh? you don't want to gank without insurance? well "Get a thicken skin" -you don't know how you'll afford this? "grow a brain" -how will I make profit if the freighter doesn't pay out!?! "manage your risks" -but the payout is what makes it ok to lose my ship "only undock with what you can afford to lose" -you like getting all you money back without having to work for it? "stop being lazy" ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Xtreem Gallente Scientific Creative Underworld Mafia	Posted - 2007.07.23 12:50:00 - [101] yeah i wanna play carebare online, total safe space at all times, do away with war decs and make all 0.0 chock points randomly drop you in space upto 30 au from anything. make scan probes not find anything make anyone firing at anouth player take twice the damage themselves. oh and make rats say sorry after they shoot at you!
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:26:00 - [102] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Cipher7 I liked this part Solution : Get a thicken skin, grow a brain, manage your risks, only undock with what you can afford to lose, and stop being lazy. err ok then do it without insurance. no one said no ganking in highse. -oh? you don't want to gank without insurance? well "Get a thicken skin" -you don't know how you'll afford this? "grow a brain" -how will I make profit if the freighter doesn't pay out!?! "manage your risks" -but the payout is what makes it ok to lose my ship "only undock with what you can afford to lose" -you like getting all you money back without having to work for it? "stop being lazy" Pirates have adapted and will continue to adapt. Carebears such as yourself will continue to bleat. Nothing will change but the mechanics. Remember what ppl were saying about can tagging? What changed? Nothing. Now people like you still get robbed and newbies who try to take back their stuff get hurt. Crime didn't stop, it just evolved into something nastier. How many times need we go down this road?
Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:44:00 - [103] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Cipher7 I liked this part Solution : Get a thicken skin, grow a brain, manage your risks, only undock with what you can afford to lose, and stop being lazy. err ok then do it without insurance. no one said no ganking in highse. -oh? you don't want to gank without insurance? well "Get a thicken skin" -you don't know how you'll afford this? "grow a brain" -how will I make profit if the freighter doesn't pay out!?! "manage your risks" -but the payout is what makes it ok to lose my ship "only undock with what you can afford to lose" -you like getting all you money back without having to work for it? "stop being lazy" Pirates have adapted and will continue to adapt. Carebears such as yourself will continue to bleat. Nothing will change but the mechanics. Remember what ppl were saying about can tagging? What changed? Nothing. Now people like you still get robbed and newbies who try to take back their stuff get hurt. Crime didn't stop, it just evolved into something nastier. How many times need we go down this road? Oh, really? For starters - why ignore my previous post - care to address it, eh? And if you are so adaptable why the whine of such proportions - take your insurance away if you are killed by Concord and ADAPT, whiner! Whiner, because you seem to put an awful lot of effort to avoid having to adapt at all keeping it all easy for you, all the while screaming and pointing fingers at others supposedly having problems doing the same. The fact that what people ask for here makes perfect sense is obviously irrelevant for you - who is the whining carebear here, eh? Have a mirror nearby? You are such a good example of "pirate"/"pvp" hypocritical whining carebear overshadowing anybody else it's not even funny...
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:45:00 - [104] Originally by: Malachon Draco The matter of suicide ganking and insurance only determines the level of loot at which crime becomes profitable, and not the question whether crime will occur. An iteron 5 with 2 billion in cargo getting suicided by a caracal, insurance or not would be irrelevant. Yes exactly. What you are asking for, a crime nerf. Make crime pay less. Make criminals wait more for a profitable target. I do not believe there is ENOUGH crime in Eve to warrant nerfing the crime profession. Out of all the haulers and freighters out there, how many get ganked in highsec every day? 2? 3? 5? And that's supposed to be a crime wave? I guess my threshold for grittiness is higher than most. I'm almost thrilled when someone tries to rob me, it happens so rarely that its like "wow this guy is actually trying to ransom me, how cool!" I've been robbed and ganked a few times. Not nearly enough to raise an eyebrow or cause me to think "wow eve is really hardcore" If Eve was a city it wouldn't be New York, theres not nearly enough crime. It would be more like Wabash, Wisconsin. You wanna eliminate %90 of crime in Eve? Use a tanked transport to haul valuable stuff. Its so easy to operate risk-free in Eve, I never understand what everybody's complaining about.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:51:00 - [105] Originally by: Jacques Danton And if you are so adaptable why the whine of such proportions Because I like the concept of having Crime in a MMORPG even though I am a victim of it myself from time to time. And no, I am not a pirate, though I support the existance of the piracy profession. Any questions?
Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:01:00 - [106] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Jacques Danton And if you are so adaptable why the whine of such proportions Because I like the concept of having Crime in a MMORPG even though I am a victim of it myself from time to time. And no, I am not a pirate, though I support the existance of the piracy profession. Any questions? One (or maybe more) - how come you are so incapable and unwilling to take your own advice on the matter and leave this thread and issue alone? Like being a hypocrit too much? Can't you see that your own advice contradict yourself and make you look even more ridiculous? Do you have the brain to realise that what is being asked for here is not going to eliminate crime and most certainly not suicide ganking, it's just going even the playfield a bit by correcting the risk/profit ratio for crime and criminals? In addition - address the post I made in this thread please - the big one.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:07:00 - [107] Originally by: Jacques Danton stuff I realize this thread is not asking for a Crime removal, its asking for a crime reduction. My position is simply there is not enough crime in Eve to warrant this. I think there should be a good balance of all professions, and I believe at this time crime does not have a significant impact on highsec commerce. Dont remember what you wrote earlier but I will scroll up.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:15:00 - [108] Originally by: Jacques Danton Oh, and Cypher7 - you think industrialists have it easier - go play one and come back in an year. I'm looking forward to your excuses as to why you cannot/will not do that even though piracy is supposed to soooooooooooooooo hard and blah-blah... I mine, I build, I trade, I fight. At this time I do not practice piracy. This is not about "my profession" vs "your profession." Get a grip scrub.
Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:23:00 - [109] Originally by: Cipher7 (Cipher7's style too) Blah-blah Your ongoing stupid rant in this thread was already addressed pretty well, based on your own advice: Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Cipher7 I liked this part Solution : Get a thicken skin, grow a brain, manage your risks, only undock with what you can afford to lose, and stop being lazy. err ok then do it without insurance. no one said no ganking in highse. -oh? you don't want to gank without insurance? well "Get a thicken skin" -you don't know how you'll afford this? "grow a brain" -how will I make profit if the freighter doesn't pay out!?! "manage your risks" -but the payout is what makes it ok to lose my ship "only undock with what you can afford to lose" -you like getting all you money back without having to work for it? "stop being lazy" So, either what you gave as advice was idiotic and you obviously didn't mean it, i.e. you posted utter crap all the time, or you are just a spineless individual unwilling to actually walk the walk after talking the talk - either way you are not worth arguing with. Any questions?
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:33:00 - [110] Originally by: Jacques Danton mental diarrhea
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:33:00 - [111] Originally by: Jacques Danton Originally by: Cipher7 (Cipher7's style too) Blah-blah Your ongoing stupid rant in this thread was already addressed pretty well, based on your own advice: Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Cipher7 I liked this part Solution : Get a thicken skin, grow a brain, manage your risks, only undock with what you can afford to lose, and stop being lazy. err ok then do it without insurance. no one said no ganking in highse. -oh? you don't want to gank without insurance? well "Get a thicken skin" -you don't know how you'll afford this? "grow a brain" -how will I make profit if the freighter doesn't pay out!?! "manage your risks" -but the payout is what makes it ok to lose my ship "only undock with what you can afford to lose" -you like getting all you money back without having to work for it? "stop being lazy" So, either what you gave as advice was idiotic and you obviously didn't mean it, i.e. you posted utter crap all the time, or you are just a spineless individual unwilling to actually walk the walk after talking the talk - either way you are not worth arguing with. Any questions? it's not advice I pointing out that he was talking about himself. my point was your a carebear yourself by saying I want my security blanket incsce the freighter is empty. walk the walk? hell I would love to run a high sec gank and lose my ship and not get paid just to take the rewards form the freighter. why? Because I don't fly what I can't afford to lose, I have brains to make sure I can take out the the target., I can weigh risk and make a profit with or without insurance. risk vs reward. and a freighter in high sec has more reward than one in low sec. so which has more risk, high or low sec ganks? ok so if high sec has higher risk and rewards why would you be pised at insurance and think that you wouldn't be able to do it? don't yu want to risk something? that's what makes this game fun. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:36:00 - [112] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Jacques Danton stuff I realize this thread is not asking for a Crime removal, its asking for a crime reduction. My position is simply there is not enough crime in Eve to warrant this. I think there should be a good balance of all professions, and I believe at this time crime does not have a significant impact on highsec commerce. Dont remember what you wrote earlier but I will scroll up. agreed, how about ganking in high sec and losing your ship pays out half insurance? or you get a conchord bounty on your characters head? of crouse for idea 2 to work we'd have to not be able to blast our friends and make a profit :/ ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:40:00 - [113] Edited by: Jacques Danton on 23/07/2007 14:44:41 Originally by: MotherMoon it's not advice I pointing out that he was talking about himself. my point was your a carebear yourself by saying I want my security blanket incsce the freighter is empty. walk the walk? hell I would love to run a high sec gank and lose my ship and not get paid just to take the rewards form the freighter. why? Because I don't fly what I can't afford to lose, I have brains to make sure I can take out the the target., I can weigh risk and make a profit with or without insurance. risk vs reward. and a freighter in high sec has more reward than one in low sec. so which has more risk, high or low sec ganks? ok so if high sec has higher risk and rewards why would you be pised at insurance and think that you wouldn't be able to do it? don't yu want to risk something? that's what makes this game fun. You did get it that what was written (in the sense of the whole post) was directed to Cipher7, right? Right?
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:05:00 - [114] You know what kind of changes I'd like to see? I'd like to see people in NPC corps be wardeccable. So if a bunch of SWA gank my hauler, I can make them pay. Often theres no accountability, no way to make people pay for their crimes. I respect criminals that actually join criminal corps, so you can wardec them. I think anybody who practices crime should be in a corp. And furthermore I think you should have to be in a corp to post on the forums, theres too many cowards running their mouths with alts. Props to the ppl who posted with their mains. The rest of you posting with alts are a disgrace.
Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:09:00 - [115] Originally by: Cipher7 You know what kind of changes I'd like to see? I'd like to see people in NPC corps be wardeccable. So if a bunch of SWA gank my hauler, I can make them pay. Often theres no accountability, no way to make people pay for their crimes. I respect criminals that actually join criminal corps, so you can wardec them. I think anybody who practices crime should be in a corp. And furthermore I think you should have to be in a corp to post on the forums, theres too many cowards running their mouths with alts. Props to the ppl who posted with their mains. The rest of you posting with alts are a disgrace. Wouldn't such measures reduce the crime you supposedly care so much about? Aren't you, sort of, contradicting yourself yet again? It would appear you exhausted your "arguments" to such an extent you are already drifting into the zone of the utterly ridiculous? You are here to protect the criminals from anything that is supposed to make their life harder, remember?
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:16:00 - [116] Originally by: Jacques Danton Edited by: Jacques Danton on 23/07/2007 14:44:41 Originally by: MotherMoon it's not advice I pointing out that he was talking about himself. my point was your a carebear yourself by saying I want my security blanket incsce the freighter is empty. walk the walk? hell I would love to run a high sec gank and lose my ship and not get paid just to take the rewards form the freighter. why? Because I don't fly what I can't afford to lose, I have brains to make sure I can take out the the target., I can weigh risk and make a profit with or without insurance. risk vs reward. and a freighter in high sec has more reward than one in low sec. so which has more risk, high or low sec ganks? ok so if high sec has higher risk and rewards why would you be pised at insurance and think that you wouldn't be able to do it? don't yu want to risk something? that's what makes this game fun. You did get it that what was written (in the sense of the whole post) was directed to Cipher7, right? Right? nope I thought you were flaming me FTL... ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Plentimon Amarr	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:19:00 - [117] Originally by: Cipher7 You know what kind of changes I'd like to see? I'd like to see people in NPC corps be wardeccable. So if a bunch of SWA gank my hauler, I can make them pay. The rather obvious problem with that is, wardec an NPC corp and you literally have free reign to slaughter thousands of hapless noobs. Honestly I wouldn't mind there being a time limit or something on how long you can stay in an NPC corp...but that leaves the problem of where do you go after, or do you get forced into joining the first available PC corp that will have you. The more obvious solution though, which I'm sure you'll yell about being an attempt to nerf the oh so adaptable pirates, is that if you drop sec status, you get booted from your NPC corp. There is at least some attempt at immersion in EVE, and I doubt the State War Academy wants to be known far and wide as the best pirate haven in the galaxy. But that still leaves the problem of where you go when you get tossed from an NPC corp. Quote: Often theres no accountability, no way to make people pay for their crimes. Isn't the fact that they're safely protected from war decs in their NPC corp part of the terribly clever pirates profit/loss calculation? Why do you want to nerf it instead of finding a way to adapt?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:19:00 - [118] Originally by: Jacques Danton Originally by: SiJira concord doesnt pay your insurance a separate professional company does they dont care if you skin kittens for a living they make business with you BS - you people really sound dumb - so it's a private company and which private company would repeatedly pay insurance to mongrels that intentionally commit suicide, because it's called suicide ganking for a reason. Insurance is covering risk, that's why you pay part of what the ship is worth, not all of it. The moment you intentionally destroy that ship risk goes out the window - no insurance company would pay you a dime, otherwise they would logically go broke, i.e. giving away several times more money than they get. So all the idiots claiming that just because insurance is a private business that has nothing to do with Concord or the governments - go check your head with a doctor... or grow something in it and then go check it... just like cloning its a private company meaning you have no reason not to get what you paid for Quote: One funny question - since every pirate here seems to be strangely inclined to compare the game to RL when it pleases them and not when it doesn't - if there were no clones or alts in this game - would you still commit suicide ganking, you know - like in RL? Because it's exactly the flawed game mechanics that allow you to do it... i am not comparing anything to real life im telling you that insurance is separate from concord can you stop trying to find holes where there are none? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:28:00 - [119] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Jacques Danton stuff Post with your main. I am not here to "protect" criminals, they can protect themselves. I think all professions should exist and be fun/profitable. You wanna be a criminal, take the penalties of being a criminal. Take your sec rating hit, be in a wardeccable corp, man up and be accountable. None of that alt-recycling Caracal SWA munchkin activity, thats not crime, thats exploit according to CCP. how about noob corp players don't get to use insurance? or they aren't aloowed the higher plans because they are noobs? why not make sec stats effect what insurance plan you can get? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:32:00 - [120] Originally by: Plentimon The more obvious solution though, which I'm sure you'll yell about being an attempt to nerf the oh so adaptable pirates, is that if you drop sec status, you get booted from your NPC corp. That's a good idea, but wouldn't the SWA guy just recycle to another alt?
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:36:00 - [121] Originally by: MotherMoon how about noob corp players don't get to use insurance? why not make sec stats effect what insurance plan you can get? First suggestion would hurt new players. Second suggestion, no because piracy is a valid profession and therefor should not be penalized.
Granmethedon III High4Life	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:41:00 - [122] Do away with Concord, and extend the noob deadspaces to noob only systems. Do away with noob corps. Then let people protect themselves.
Jhonen Senraedi Minmatar Vaapad Shinobis Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.23 15:59:00 - [123] Yes..Crime should be in the game..it is there inthe form of low sec piracy,scamming etc. Where the aspect of crime is out of proportion is when it comes to high-sec ganks with throwaway alts etc. Firstly suicide ganking..by the very name implies that there should be no escape from finality/death/destruction etc.......thus,there should be no insurance pay out if killed by faction/concord elements.As Mothermoon points out..it's about risk v reward.A person taking a large haul of goods up to a hub is taking a risk..but have they not already invested time and effort into getting the reward they are hauling?Where then is the effort or risk to a suicide ganker..especially one recycling alts?By removing insurance..it makes pilots plan/case jobs etc.makes them use scanners more to determine worthwhile cargo..and makes them take risks...something which,in present form,they do not! I do not suggets removing crime..hell..it keeps me having targets to shoot at....No..I just suggets that criminals take a risk as well! Tothose who think using recyclable alts etc is fair..well..Hope CCP trace you and ban your alts and your main...because it is,as we all know,an exploit to recycle alts. I agree with Cipher on wardeccing etc..as I do with mother on many of her points..perhaps a solution lies in people being removed from rookie corps into second tier npc corps after a set period of time(2 weeks?)..or a certain neg/pos sec status?..or both? Make 2nd tier NPC corps deccable....
Jacques Danton Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:22:00 - [124] Edited by: Jacques Danton on 23/07/2007 16:23:13 Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: MotherMoon how about noob corp players don't get to use insurance? why not make sec stats effect what insurance plan you can get? First suggestion would hurt new players. Second suggestion, no because piracy is a valid profession and therefor should not be penalized. You've posted so much crap in this thread alone we can now use your own crap to counter-"argument" your other crap Originally by: Cipher7 Pirates have adapted and will continue to adapt. If what you said here is to be believed then we should worry not about pirates, eh? I also find it really funny how you didn't care about my "main" until your "arguments" were shown to contradict yourself and you started to look like a donkey *** so you even stopped quoting me properly instead of simply ignoring what I posted. How much more pathetic can you get?
Speed Devil Caldari Mean Machines	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:40:00 - [125] to make the issue clear im not someone who recycles alts, so ccp cant ban me i run missions in the same system to get my sec up a bit, then i blow up a miner once ive made enough isks and sec status wich means some more isk if they have good modules :) and so so so much smack its unbelievable, if ya want smak than join in the highsecsuicidekilling. some people even dont want to mine anymore in the system where i live in

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