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So titans are now Underpowerd?

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Ciuci FinFleet	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:03:00 - [31] Edited by: Ciuci on 24/07/2007 20:03:38 Originally by: Yaay Originally by: Hannobaal The Titan before was impossible to kill in battle. The two that were killed were killed because they logged off with an aggression timer, which made them sitting ducks once they were probed out. Now, they are balanced. If you're going to use them you need a big fleet to protect them. That's as it should be. Funny, and here I thought we were trying to reduce lag and oversized fleets... Titans did get overly nerfed, and it's a shame they don't take the front lines anymore, whether BOB or other. If you notice, no Titans have been launched since that patch, yet several were close to build stage. It was overpowered before, and nobody argued about that. It only needed 2 real fixes, it's capacitor, and it's remote DD. The capacitor could have easily been fixed by causing the DD to take at least 60% of it's cap. Desyncs have been the smallest problem in super cap warefare. Now it's an issue of choosing 15 carriers over one mom, or 55 dreads over 1 titan. With the current state, it's pretty obvious which people are choosing. Super Capitals should be tough to kill, and should take a lot of work and planning (not dumb luck, not a few dictors and a ton of dreads). I don't defend the titan kills on our side, they were what they were. Love em or hate em, at least they were preventable from the other side. Dictor bubbles are causing the same argument that existed before patch for normal capitals. Why should 1 tiny ship be able to hold down a something so big. It's easy to argue for until it directly affects you. It's funny how many people wanted capital class scrambling mods, yet instead, they went with something that required far less risk for such a great reward. look up at this post ... nerfing the titan was the gateway to bloobing ...
kittypaws	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:29:00 - [32] Smartboms got a 10k range, Dictor bubbles got a 20k range check your info first ;) FACTS: No titan's build since the nerf No dd's fired since shrike lost his Titans are way to UNDERPOWERD Titans are to easy to kill add more please,
Psyrus Baine The SMITE Brotherhood Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:31:00 - [33] "and it's a shame they don't take the front lines anymore" Sitting in a safe spot firing a DD though a cyno is called the front line? They was way overpowered. It is a logistic boat with the ability to open jump portals for fleets. Give incredible bonus's and act as a mobile station. Just the mentioned ability's above if more than enough to justify their cost. Giving it the ability to wipe out entire fleets was just a bad idea.

CCP Fendahl	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Yaay The capacitor could have easily been fixed by causing the DD to take at least 60% of it's cap. We discussed this briefly when looking into the super cap issues, but sadly no amount of cap usage on the DD would prevent a titan from jumping almost immediately after firing the DD. An Avatar in gang can obtain a recharge time of 7.96sec with the right modules. This means that even if the DD completely drained the titan's cap, then it would have recovered a sufficient amount of cap to jump after approximately 3sec (barely enough time to type "LOL" in local ). Granted, the setup would probably cost as much as the titan itself, but in my opinion price alone cannot justify (virtual) invulnerability. The problem is that cap recharge is not stacking nerfed as it ought to have been. Unfortunately making cap recharge stacking nerfed would break a very large number of setups and aside from "fringe issues" like this one there aren't any truly compelling reasons for doing so and having to re-balance every single ship.

kittypaws	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:34:00 - [35] Yes we all know remote dd was a joke, it was also stupid thath a titan culd jump in fire the DD then jump out again all in 30 sec's! The 10 minunte "cool down timer" before you can jump out is realy god, not beeing able to jump out of bubbles is stupid, If you got a plan, you shuld be able to gett a bubble and nos a titan below 71% cap in 10 minutes.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:35:00 - [36] Originally by: CCP Fendahl The problem is that cap recharge is not stacking nerfed as it ought to have been. Unfortunately making cap recharge stacking nerfed would break a very large number of setups and aside from "fringe issues" like this one there aren't any truly compelling reasons for doing so and having to re-balance every single ship. Your talk of stacking-nerfed cap recharge made me a little nervous for a second. Phew. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:44:00 - [37] Originally by: CCP Fendahl The problem is that cap recharge is not stacking nerfed as it ought to have been. well... along with a nos fix, this would be the second best thing to get big and small ships closer together again - putting the gist back into logistics
Yaay Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.24 20:51:00 - [38] Originally by: CCP Fendahl Originally by: Yaay The capacitor could have easily been fixed by causing the DD to take at least 60% of it's cap. We discussed this briefly when looking into the super cap issues, but sadly no amount of cap usage on the DD would prevent a titan from jumping almost immediately after firing the DD. An Avatar in gang can obtain a recharge time of 7.96sec with the right modules. This means that even if the DD completely drained the titan's cap, then it would have recovered a sufficient amount of cap to jump after approximately 3sec (barely enough time to type "LOL" in local ). Granted, the setup would probably cost as much as the titan itself, but in my opinion price alone cannot justify (virtual) invulnerability. The problem is that cap recharge is not stacking nerfed as it ought to have been. Unfortunately making cap recharge stacking nerfed would break a very large number of setups and aside from "fringe issues" like this one there aren't any truly compelling reasons for doing so and having to re-balance every single ship. So it is possible to cause the titan a delay on cap recharge due to some phenominon caused by the DD. Rather than give it 10 min that it can't jump, what about 10 minutes where all modules work at 50% efficiency. This would fix 2 problems, 1 being an all capacitor setup. The 2nd being more exposure because it lacks the tank it would have had. Based on the way mods stack, this should reduce the cap recharge time significantly. 28% rechargers only working at 14% would be an ample nerf. Couple that with a larger drain via the DD and a boost in the cost of using said DD seems a more viable and practical solution. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Khorian/war_progress.jpg
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.07.24 21:03:00 - [39] Edited by: Kerfira on 24/07/2007 21:09:30 The major thing that affects titans atm is that the physics of ship/object collisions are totally screwed in EVE. A 1.8 million tonne titan being hit by a 1.2 tonne frigate will be bumped like a balloon getting hit by a hand in real-life! A titan with a frigate wreck in front of it can not move past that wreck or shove it out of the way, but have to detour around it (and the titan have a very slow turning speed and acceleration). So in effect just warping a few noob frigates to the titan from different directions and get them killed by smartbombs is enough to stop a titan dead in its tracks. In effect equivalent to someone placing a few small pebbles around a truck and it not being able to move because of that. This is just plain wrong! If a titan decides to move in a direction, everything in its path should be bumped away with only a very minimal effect on the titan. Fix this, make interdictor bubbles directly target-able by weapons (or have some other kind of counter), and titans will be useful again (as an instrument of war, not just logistics ) though not their old overpowered self. TBH, it's kinda weird that the ship that was supposed to be THE weapon to counter blobs now has to bring an even BIGGER blob to be usable without certain death... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2007.07.24 21:06:00 - [40] Originally by: CCP Fendahl Originally by: Yaay The capacitor could have easily been fixed by causing the DD to take at least 60% of it's cap. We discussed this briefly when looking into the super cap issues, but sadly no amount of cap usage on the DD would prevent a titan from jumping almost immediately after firing the DD. An Avatar in gang can obtain a recharge time of 7.96sec with the right modules. This means that even if the DD completely drained the titan's cap, then it would have recovered a sufficient amount of cap to jump after approximately 3sec (barely enough time to type "LOL" in local ). Granted, the setup would probably cost as much as the titan itself, but in my opinion price alone cannot justify (virtual) invulnerability. The problem is that cap recharge is not stacking nerfed as it ought to have been. Unfortunately making cap recharge stacking nerfed would break a very large number of setups and aside from "fringe issues" like this one there aren't any truly compelling reasons for doing so and having to re-balance every single ship. You still over nerfed I'm afraid, and I think you know that.

Avery Cane Contras	Posted - 2007.07.24 21:14:00 - [41] isnt one reason titans are not being used is because wrecks and corpses can keep it from aligning? i mean this is really dumb and needs to be fixed. i mean what is the tonage on a titan or momma? titans and mother ships should not be in fear of coming to a battle due to not being able to get to warp from the bodies and wrecks they create.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.24 21:17:00 - [42] A potential solution is to allow capital ships to move wrecks - then again, I'm not sure how technically feasible this idea is. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
ElanMorin6 CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.07.24 21:58:00 - [43] Seems like the bigger problem is wrecks being able to bump supercaps, redering anyone with some shuttles or noobships capable of "warp scrambling" a supercap. Make wreck HP a fucntion of wreck size. Shuttle/noobship wrecks should be exploded by 1 large smartbomb going off. Frig wrecks by 2 large smartbomb activations. Cruiser/BC/BS wrecks would have more HP. Problem solved. If you want to "tackle" a supercap with wrecks you need to sacrifice battleships to do it, not noobships.
Endeva Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.24 22:13:00 - [44] just remove dictor bubbles and put ingame supercapital warp disruptor that can scramble i.e 50k and can be mounted only on titan or mom so i you wanna kill supercap you need to put your supercapital at field.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.24 22:47:00 - [45] Originally by: Endeva just remove dictor bubbles and put ingame supercapital warp disruptor that can scramble i.e 50k and can be mounted only on titan or mom so i you wanna kill supercap you need to put your supercapital at field. And those alliances who don't own any supercaps (Goonswarm does, before you start) just have to sit there and cry while the invincible death machine pilot presses butan and prints out another 5 pages worth of killmails? "Welcome to Super-Capitals Online".
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.07.24 22:56:00 - [46] Originally by: ElanMorin6 Seems like the bigger problem is wrecks being able to bump supercaps, redering anyone with some shuttles or noobships capable of "warp scrambling" a supercap. Make wreck HP a fucntion of wreck size. Shuttle/noobship wrecks should be exploded by 1 large smartbomb going off. Frig wrecks by 2 large smartbomb activations. Cruiser/BC/BS wrecks would have more HP. Problem solved. If you want to "tackle" a supercap with wrecks you need to sacrifice battleships to do it, not noobships. /signed ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.24 23:00:00 - [47] Edited by: Elmicker on 24/07/2007 23:00:22 The main problem is its lack of tank. If you catch a carrier/mom or dread in the open, its just gonna go into triage/siege and tank you to buggery and back. I may be mistaken on this, but i'm fairly sure that the titans now sport the WEAKEST capital tanks, aside from their (relatively low, in capital battles) HP amounts. Give the titans siege AND triage - you may even see them used in a true combat role, aswell as supplementing their support role.
Don't Panic Rest home for Tired Seadogs	Posted - 2007.07.24 23:02:00 - [48] Originally by: kittypaws Edited by: kittypaws on 24/07/2007 17:07:09 So the only tool to figthing of blobbing is now usless? Any one seen a titan in use after the nerf? Any one used the titan FOR FIGTHING after the nerf? Yes, Molle used his Titan... then he stopped using it
SiJira	Posted - 2007.07.24 23:09:00 - [49] Originally by: CCP Fendahl Originally by: Yaay The capacitor could have easily been fixed by causing the DD to take at least 60% of it's cap. We discussed this briefly when looking into the super cap issues, but sadly no amount of cap usage on the DD would prevent a titan from jumping almost immediately after firing the DD. An Avatar in gang can obtain a recharge time of 7.96sec with the right modules. This means that even if the DD completely drained the titan's cap, then it would have recovered a sufficient amount of cap to jump after approximately 3sec (barely enough time to type "LOL" in local ). Granted, the setup would probably cost as much as the titan itself, but in my opinion price alone cannot justify (virtual) invulnerability. The problem is that cap recharge is not stacking nerfed as it ought to have been. Unfortunately making cap recharge stacking nerfed would break a very large number of setups and aside from "fringe issues" like this one there aren't any truly compelling reasons for doing so and having to re-balance every single ship. thanks for the response ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.07.24 23:51:00 - [50] Originally by: Scatim Helicon And those alliances who don't own any supercaps (Goonswarm does, before you start) just have to sit there and cry while the invincible death machine pilot presses butan and prints out another 5 pages worth of killmails? "Welcome to Super-Capitals Online". Actually, from a game progression perspective, this might have a good outcome (i.e. that you can't go up against supercaps without your own).... While it would make things harder for smaller alliances, it would also make 0.0 politics far more interesting! It would force people into not just being their own little alliance in their own little space, but would force them to actively participate in the political game between the big powerblocks that are developing with all the possibilities of back-stabbing, double-crossing and all the other delightful things that entails Having big, relatively stable powerblocks in 0.0 would also contribute a lot to the development of 0.0. The powerblocks need to keep their stations open to allies for one thing, not just their own people, meaning that trade will expand. With big powerblocks, there'll also be a bigger difference in safety in 0.0. If you're deep in a powerblocks area, you'd be more safe than if at the edge. This again will encourage trade and development. Powerblocks and stability is good for 0.0. Supercaps which could actually participate in combat would help encourage that. However, when all is said and done, the basic fact is that CCP saw the need for a nerf, and probably swung the nerfbat too hard (they have a tendency to do that...). They'll most likely unnerf it at some point since what they did basically removed supercaps from the game in combat roles (except mommyships as low-sec gate campers), which I don't think is what they intended. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.25 00:24:00 - [51] It's quite funny reading people with no corp nor alliance shown moaning about the now gone 'I win' button Post with your main ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Anubis Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.07.25 00:38:00 - [52] The problem with Titans is a fundamental flaw of Eve's combat mechanics. No ship should have more than 4 mids, or more than 4 lows. Tanking is overpowered. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Ghost Reaper Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.25 00:42:00 - [53] Edited by: Ghost Reaper on 25/07/2007 00:44:05 Originally by: CCP Fendahl Originally by: Yaay The capacitor could have easily been fixed by causing the DD to take at least 60% of it's cap. We discussed this briefly when looking into the super cap issues, but sadly no amount of cap usage on the DD would prevent a titan from jumping almost immediately after firing the DD. An Avatar in gang can obtain a recharge time of 7.96sec with the right modules. This means that even if the DD completely drained the titan's cap, then it would have recovered a sufficient amount of cap to jump after approximately 3sec (barely enough time to type "LOL" in local ). Granted, the setup would probably cost as much as the titan itself, but in my opinion price alone cannot justify (virtual) invulnerability. The problem is that cap recharge is not stacking nerfed as it ought to have been. Unfortunately making cap recharge stacking nerfed would break a very large number of setups and aside from "fringe issues" like this one there aren't any truly compelling reasons for doing so and having to re-balance every single ship. so instead u nerded it to be useless now, lets run though the problems with it. You made it so you couldn'd jump for 10 mins, ok that one was good, but u also made them dictorable. So they can fire the DD, then have to wait 1 hour before they can do it again. Now. have you ever fired a DD on a fleet of people and killed them, on TQ? Ask all the titan pilots, they will tell u you lag like a bitttch getting all the kill mails. Now you probaly thinking yea wats wrong with that, make them stay there and fight, there big and tanked to hell right? Wrong, there tank is worse then a dreadnaught in siege ( even with 3 capital reps mind you). To add to this the guns on it are uselss, i think it was sharkbaits joke to add a % damage bonus to the racial capital guns, becuase they cant hit ****, and if they do hit, they hit like a dread OUT of siege. Fixes, you have to do sumething because there only good for JP'in now and thats boring as hell. You can do the following, boost the tank and damage to hit like a dread in siege, but NO siege module. Give it a tracking bonus, so it can track stuff like BS and do good damage. Or/and change the DD timer and fuel cost for it to like 10mins or sumething. If you watched the video of Shrike dieing by RA, you will see that it goes down in around 3-5mins when the dreads start hitting it. Now that is just a joke for the price tag on them (as well as fittings) yea and biomass needs to be smartbombable as well! Gr Latest Vid: Blood Shock
Ghost Reaper Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.25 00:53:00 - [54] Edited by: Ghost Reaper on 25/07/2007 00:54:01 Seeing as the devs are reading and replying to this thread, can i get a response to the following: Do you have any plans to change titans in there current format, or is this how they were 'meant' to be? You never expressed any 'drastic' changed likes this before the forums were attacked, so what brought on the 'lets turn titans into a suped up freighters' Gr Latest Vid: Blood Shock
Brunswick2 coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.25 01:08:00 - [55] imo, titans should get some more logistical capabilities/advanatages, but in terms of combat, i think titans/moms are fine the way they are now (not a solo-i-win button) O RLY? - Kreul
gaaksel Destructive Influence	Posted - 2007.07.25 01:18:00 - [56] The only things that needs to be changed (for all ships not just supercaps) is bumping and biomass. Bumping needs to take mass into account and biomass should not block paths at all. There it is suddenly worth again putting supercaps back in on the field and it suddenly also makes the game allot more realistic. I can see why collision damage is not put into the game (eventhough it would be fun seeing an unsuspecting inty pilot go splash on the windshield of a dreadnaught) but it should not be possible for said inty to blow everything out its path.
Peoke Caldari Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.25 01:46:00 - [57] the titan nerf was exactly what it was supposed to be. eve changed a long time ago from tactic sounter tactic. the prime day this changed was with the dictors and warp bubbles dropped in game. then the warp core nerf. this game is now make isk and lose it. if you have a ship it will die. stop whining or complaining nothing will change this. It started also around the time when nerf bat tomb went up in ccp.
Astro Teller Milf Riders	Posted - 2007.07.25 01:52:00 - [58] Originally by: Ghost Reaper Edited by: Ghost Reaper on 25/07/2007 00:54:01 Seeing as the devs are reading and replying to this thread, can i get a response to the following: Do you have any plans to change titans in there current format, or is this how they were 'meant' to be? You never expressed any 'drastic' changed likes this before the forums were attacked, so what brought on the 'lets turn titans into a suped up freighters' Gr your tears taste so good! ----Astro Teller
Strategos Banned Society	Posted - 2007.07.25 01:54:00 - [59] Originally by: kittypaws Whaaaaa whaaaaaaaaaa sob sob sob whaaaaaaaa whyyyyy cpp whaaaaaaaaa super caps should own everything whaaaaaaaa BoB has no unbeatable advantage anymore whaaaaa were going to lose whaaaaaa whyyyy ccp whyyyyyy whaaaaaaa Did I miss something? ---Sig--- Sig removed, not appropriate for the forum. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -Pirlouit
Strategos Banned Society	Posted - 2007.07.25 01:55:00 - [60] Originally by: kittypaws Smartboms got a 10k range, Dictor bubbles got a 20k range check your info first ;) FACTS: No titan's build since the nerf No dd's fired since shrike lost his Titans are way to UNDERPOWERD Titans are to easy to kill add more please, You're wrong. Orange Spieces DD'd IAC today from what I hear. Try again. Cry more ---Sig--- Sig removed, not appropriate for the forum. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -Pirlouit



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