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So titans are now Underpowerd?

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Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:14:00 - [151] yes because the media is always so trustworthy Cause if the BBC says it it must be true! seriously, you have to have a better argument than that Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:34:00 - [152] Originally by: Tortun Nahme yes because the media is always so trustworthy Cause if the BBC says it it must be true! seriously, you have to have a better argument than that First off, why would the BBC lie about this? Especially considering they were just reporting on the journal's findings, and lies would've been immediatly uncovered. Secondly, why would Nature lie about this? Nature is a very prominent scientific journal, existing for well over 100 years. Nature. Why would anyone lie about this, what possible gain would they get? We have An Empirical Examination of Wikipedia's Credibility Which is from Firstmonday. Another peer-reviewed journal. There are multiple bits of the Nature report to look at. Original Article Supplementary Information (DOC file) List of Articles Reviewed and their Errors. Nature Blog Editorial Another Nature Editorial The University of Illinois Grad School of Library and Information also did a study about Information Quality Which is right here (PDF File) There is an article in August's PC Pro called Wikipedia Uncovered: Wikipedia vs. The Old Guard. I don't have a link for it, and have not read it though. That is about it for the Formal studies. There are a number of informal studies, mainly Newspaper type stuff. If you want, you can find all the rest at this wikipedia site right here. While this is mainly links, in the Nature Blog, one of the paragraphs pretty much sums up my feelings on it: "If you believe that an encyclopedia should be judged by it's weakest entries (in general I don't), or if you're the subject of an error or slur (thankfully I'm nowhere near famous enough), then the anecdotal outliers might be more important to you than averaged results. But most readers simply want to know whether a source can generally be relied upon. What these results say to me is that Wikipedia isn't bad in this regard ù and that if it's really important to get your facts right then even Britannica isn't completely dependable. (In fact, I'm not sure that anything is.) Put this together with the fact that Wikipedia is generating content at many orders of magnitude lower cost than traditional encyclopedias and you've got yourself a classic Christensenesque disruption in reference publishing."
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:35:00 - [153] and I can come up with just as many links supporting the opposite point, I never said they were lying, but they all have their own angles Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:36:00 - [154] OMG stay on topic. My god look what you started! where fighting over the BBC, wikis and how this related to how many battle cruisers where in the star wars movie! what have we become?!?!?!?! ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:41:00 - [155] Originally by: MotherMoon OMG stay on topic. My god look what you started! where fighting over the BBC, wikis and how this related to how many battle cruisers where in the star wars movie! what have we become?!?!?!?! Geeks? o.O ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:42:00 - [156] Originally by: MotherMoon OMG stay on topic. My god look what you started! where fighting over the BBC, wikis and how this related to how many battle cruisers where in the star wars movie! what have we become?!?!?!?! Forum Warriors! Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:43:00 - [157] Defending the fourms of the internet from the scum of the world ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:44:00 - [158] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Defending the fourms of the internet from the scum of the world BBQing boards since 1992 Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink. Nerfageddon
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.26 04:50:00 - [159] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 26/07/2007 04:50:31 Originally by: Tortun Nahme and I can come up with just as many links supporting the opposite point, I never said they were lying, but they all have their own angles I only looked at Formal peer-reviewed, scientific research. If you can find me some formal peer-reviewed articles covering the opposite, I would like to see them, because I don't know them. While these angles exist, that is the reason for peer-review. It is much easier to look at research findings from a single angle. However, when you have peer-review, you have many more heads looking at it, from many more points of view. Thus, your review needs to be able to hold up a certain amount of objectivity and transparency to be able to stand up throuhgh it. I have seen lots of stuff stating the opposite. However, I have never seen anything but informal reports, that would hardly be considered scientific. Wikipedia is important to EVE. What if the wrong info about forum whines was on Wikipedia? PS. This is just a welcome distraction from the actual research paper I should be doing. But I'm all Picasso'd out.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:41:00 - [160] Talk about derailing a thread.. _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. -

Herculite Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.26 18:56:00 - [161] Another benefit of supercap scram mod would be that you wouldn't have invulnerable mother ships in low sec. That was the way to go CCP. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.07.26 19:21:00 - [162] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Talk about derailing a thread.. I like to think of it as taking a train wreck, and putting it back on the track.
Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch	Posted - 2007.07.27 17:04:00 - [163] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Haradgrim From an RP perspective: It really bugs me that large ships don't have enough presence on the battlefield. A titan should be like a super-stardestroyer in Star Wars, the type of ship a galactic empire can only afford to have a couple of but makes your enemies flee in terror the moment it arrives on the battlefield. Umm you do remember that the Executor was taken down by a single A-Wing through through the command deck. An A-wing is much much smaller then any dictors we have.. Didn't your mommy ever tell you that size dosen't matter. After it lost shields....... and if you could suicide (with a chance of hitting the bridge) for a stupid amount of damage I would be ok with that! Plus the super-stardestroyer took a regular one to the mid-section before it went down (which was more my point) - Haradgrim [-WB-] That.which.does.not.bend.breaks
Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch	Posted - 2007.07.27 17:26:00 - [164] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Hllaxiu Uhm. You need to watch that scene again. From wookieepedia: Quote: The Executor was destroyed at the Battle of Endor after the shields protecting the bridge superstructure were knocked down by a heavy bombardment from the Rebel fleet. Rebel fighter pilot Arvel Crynyd, his A-wing spinning out of control, crashed into the Executor's unprotected command tower, smashing through portions of the bridge section, disabling the massive ship's navigational systems and causing it to drift into a collision with the incomplete second Death Star, where the Star Dreadnought was vaporized. Saying that the executor was taken out by an A-wing is kinda like saying that Molle's titan was taken out by an interdictor. Sure, it needed to be there, but the Dreads (MonCals) were the ships that really destroyed it (well, provided the firepower that lead to the ship's desctruction). Also, to the first poster in the post chain, a Revelation is larger than the Executor. Hmm perhaps you need to watch that scene again rather then quoting wiki like fact. If you actually watch the scene the bridge deflector "globe thinggy" was destroyed by 2-3 x or y wings. Hence loosing the bridge deflector.. allowing the A wing to crash into it (gotta admit thats a hell of a lucky shot for an out of control fighter) hence loosing control and getting sucked to the Death Star due to gravity. You assume that the Mon Cal "dreads" actually did much. Most likely the ships shields were still fully functional (I never saw any secondary explosions or fires burning) until the bridge lost its shield and got smacked. Remember the quote "Intensify forward firepower, I don't want anything to get through".. sorta implies that nothings actually hurt the SSD yet.. least not enough to make them hurry around rather then simply standing on the deck watching. It dosen't matter how many turbolasers the Mon Cal's "might" have shot at it with when it was the snubfighters that brought down the bridge shields and 1 A-wing that destroyed the command deck causing the ship to crash. Remember that as a small rebel fleet vs a very large 30+ strong Destroyer force as well as a 19km Super Star Destroyer.. Home 1 (Admiral Ackbars ship) was slightly larger then an Imp Star duce while the 2-3 other mon cal ships were roughly equal or less then to an Imperial II class Star Destroyer. Point is.. the ship was brought down directly via snubfighters.. not capital ship assaults. I hate to post about star wars twice in a row on the eve forums but: Firstly, the shields were weakened by the assualt, or atelast it was powerful enough for the empire to bring the ship about and face Home 1 head one. Second, "Proton-torpedos" have special shield piercing abilities (this is the reason they need to be the weapon used to destroy the first deathstar), this is why they were able to hit the shield generator's. Also, remember that the X-wing was considered one of the greatest weapons in the star wars universe, its hard to compare something in EVE to it. Third, the reason they say to focus fire forward is specifically because they didn't want someone suiciding into the bridge, etc. Forth, that was a regular SD not the SSD. The damaged SD was the one that impacted on the SSD. Fifth, the reason they are just standing around is because they are the Empire, its a parody/parallel of the Brit's RN having a cup of tea while their ship is sinking. Besides, where are you going to run? Also, all extended universe stuff has been aproved by GL/lucasfilm, so whether he came up with it or not, he agreed that stuff was official and alot of it he did come up with. - Haradgrim [-WB-] That.which.does.not.bend.breaks
Lenaria Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2007.07.28 09:47:00 - [165] Titans are are fine, leave them as is. Last titan kill took a few dozens capitals to achieve - and these capitals cost even more than a titan. So i dont see any problem here. ==============================================
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.28 10:40:00 - [166] Originally by: Lenaria Titans are are fine, leave them as is. Last titan kill took a few dozens capitals to achieve - and these capitals cost even more than a titan. So i dont see any problem here. So you think it's not a problem that biomass can stop a titan or mothership in it's tracks and bounce it the other way? There is some tweaking to do no matter which way you look at it. GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE
Asestorian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:09:00 - [167] I don't have a Titan, I will never have a Titan, and I don't care about BoB/Goons etc. However, I have to agree that getting stuck on wrecks and biomass is a huge flaw in the game mechanics. It just shouldn't be like that at all. And while your at it, CCP should fix the whole missile thing, to stop large ships bouncing around uncontrollably when they get hit by a little rocket --- ---
Lenaria Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:17:00 - [168] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Lenaria Titans are are fine, leave them as is. Last titan kill took a few dozens capitals to achieve - and these capitals cost even more than a titan. So i dont see any problem here. So you think it's not a problem that biomass can stop a titan or mothership in it's tracks and bounce it the other way? There is some tweaking to do no matter which way you look at it. This problem is not specific to titan. Morever, with litle suport (which titan/ms should have anyway) you can clear wrecks/biomass in no time. ==============================================
Lastdon	Posted - 2007.07.28 11:33:00 - [169] Hmmm rather then keep gimping the capital ships by means of damage or damage reduction why can't you just introduce a fuel that is required to run these ships. You already have a particular type of fuel for jumping why don't you make it so it applies to the operating time of the ship? Make random spawns of this fuel to force alliance/corps to move out of their little Cobby hole. I don't understand why things have to be so difficult in the implementation of aspects of this game that were for scene in the original game development. Yes I do agree a titan should be a super own vehicle it should be the combination of a Dread/carrier/Move alliance fleets abroad. This should only happen with limits that would be fuel, that allows the ship to be operational, and with out it the ship should just be a over sized paper weight. Right now if you ask me a titan is nothing more then an over sized BS with a bigger smart bomb.... dam way to be innovative CCP. Maybe you should just call it a tier 3 dreadnought.
Voculus E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:01:00 - [170] Titans were not nerfed enough. In fact, Titans should be nerfed out of existance. I still can't believe how the peeps at CCP sat down and decided that destroying 200+ ships in an instant with a single mouse click was a good idea. _________________________________________________________

Trind2222 Amarr Celestial Pillagers	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:22:00 - [171] Capital scramblers will be perfect this will not only stop titans but mother ship to as they hard to stop in low sec. And yes re balance the Titans i agree on that to. I hope that ccp will consider Capital scramblers it make perfect sense.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:34:00 - [172] Originally by: Voculus Titans were not nerfed enough. In fact, Titans should be nerfed out of existance. I still can't believe how the peeps at CCP sat down and decided that destroying 200+ ships in an instant with a single mouse click was a good idea. it's passive gang buff is much more useful. mybae just get rid of doomsday but never the titan. make it possible to dock inside them :) ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Bado Sten Minmatar Sten Industries	Posted - 2007.07.28 14:46:00 - [173] Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur On a side note I wonder now with the bombers what could have both sides done... Those bomb take out wrecks and dictors I guess? As well as drones.... We yet have to see a coordinated small bomber fleet action. That's because the bombs simply are to expensive to build. The minerals needed makes it a very expensive weapon to use -- Do you need research services for your blueprints? We have available slots in Metropolis region. Look up my bio for info!
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:27:00 - [174] Did Molle recently lose another Titan? Oh wait, he got 264 killmails yesterday. Underpowered? Yeah ok.
Vincent S	Posted - 2007.07.28 16:41:00 - [175] Originally by: Cipher7 Did Molle recently lose another Titan? Oh wait, he got 264 killmails yesterday. Underpowered? Yeah ok. The very fact that this is still possible is so utterly ridiculous. I still think the DD should be removed completely, or that the titan is held in place in a "siege mode" whenever the DD is fired.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 17:58:00 - [176] Originally by: kittypaws Edited by: kittypaws on 24/07/2007 17:07:09 So the only tool to figthing of blobbing is now usless? Any one seen a titan in use after the nerf? Any one used the titan FOR FIGTHING after the nerf? Evil Thug even said he wuld never use it again becuse its so wonerable after the patch. It is one of the most unbalanced ship's in eve atm. it costs 40 bil isk to bulid, and takes lots of efort and time to build. but it can be can be killed by a ship thath cost's 10mil, and a module that cost 200k isk. yes i know they nedded a nerf realy realy bad, but ccp didd a bit to much here. 1) many titans have been seen, molle dd'd 250 goons just yesterday 2) you cant kill a titan with a dictor, you need a whole fleet. We had 100 bs's yesterday and were struggling to break his tank Things are just fine
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.28 18:02:00 - [177] Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Lenaria Titans are are fine, leave them as is. Last titan kill took a few dozens capitals to achieve - and these capitals cost even more than a titan. So i dont see any problem here. So you think it's not a problem that biomass can stop a titan or mothership in it's tracks and bounce it the other way? There is some tweaking to do no matter which way you look at it. Surely fire, that would be a fix to general game physics, not a fix to titans? :p hell, why should a rifter, that's supposedly about 30m long bounce off a corpse? Why cant coverts ops computers automatically detect corpses to stop them decloaking? Why the hell does a frigate, with a l'il frigate sized computer take less time to lock a target than a ship that, I imagine has computers the size of a damned frigate. What you're talking about has nothing to do with titans specifically.
Doctor Tycho Caldari Arutha loyals	Posted - 2007.07.28 19:57:00 - [178] Originally by: Tortun Nahme yes because the media is always so trustworthy Cause if the BBC says it it must be true! seriously, you have to have a better argument than that Sorry, i think you lost now:(
ForumPosterAlt HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:03:00 - [179] Titans need to be nerfed harder imo. The biggest problem with the titan is that CCP said that "they were never meant to be 'cost effective'", but then not even CCP could stomach that idea. They ended up with a wiitardedly expensive ship, and because they weren't going for anything "cost effective" or balanced for that matter, they made them freaking invincible. Even the common player seems to think that Titans should be easy to keep alive while flying them solo "because they cost so much". Titans too vulnerable? TITAN'S ARE THE EASIEST DEFENDED SHIP IN THE GAME. Every single titan kill was due to stupidity. People are stupid, it happens. Fly a titan intelligently, and they are invincible. That means that if you're gonna fire a DDD, don't fly solo, freaking noobs. Some guy in this very thread said something to the effect of "what if there are 80 dreads and 5 carriers jump a titan, how do you defend it? ;LKFDJ89O4U89RU89WEFHJ8945IJGFDIOKLGJESO5RTUOFDIGU457U209UIOPDFJW WHAT THE @#%$?!?! What if I spent 200million isk on a command ship, and I fly it by myself, ONE PILOT, and my enemies spent 200million isk on interceptors and AFs, what the HELL should make me survive that? Luckily for them they can at least tackle me, can't tackle a titan, they just jump. Or if they have to support fleet, fly the titan around as a tactical nuke. Who says using it like that should be easy and safe? It should be the riskiest move in the game imo, but it isn't. Because posting on the forums is serious business.
Trind2222 Amarr Celestial Pillagers	Posted - 2007.07.28 20:34:00 - [180] After reading more i am not sure if we need a buff and bob success is they are ucing it many can't deny that bob is best titan owner in this game as they are good at using it they learn from the last mistake at are using it whit more success.



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