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Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:43:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Endeva
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances.
so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF
Notice the 's' in what I said. -=-=-
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Doodar
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:44:00 -
[92]
You're post is definitely insightful regarding the "glue argument." However, if BoB didn't actively recruit members from vanquished alliances, they would not have enough members to substantiate their conquests.
Therefore, I think you should extend your thesis to state that no alliance can ever conquer Eve, because the amount of members needed tears apart the glue that binds successful alliances together. |
Hunter Thompson
Tranquility Drinkers Club
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:45:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Hunter Thompson on 26/07/2007 18:46:12 So having read the original post there seems to be three main points padded out with a lot of flannel, conjecture and hearsay.
First û BoBÆs previous victories over the last 3+ years were all propaganda, so therefore they will lose this time.
Second û BoB will lose because theyÆre membership has grown over the last twelve months. The new members must be rubbish because Bob hasnÆt had a successful recruitment policy ever.
Third û Our spies havenÆt picked up on the messages being handed down from the BoB leadership, therefore they must be lying to the membership and will lose soon enough.
ThatÆs the short version of JamesÆs post û all hearsay based on COAD threads, which we all know is the most accurate source of information (a bit like the Sunday Sport or the Daily Mirror).
ThereÆs a big assumption being made in this thread û that BoB is currently losing. The simple fact of the matter is they arenÆt. The fight is being fought in space that wasnÆt BoBÆs two months ago û how can Bob be losing when they (and their allies) have repelled 30,000 EvE accounts from BoB space and have taken the fight into Coalition territory?
Now I have an opinion on why the Goons will ultimately lose. The more Goons develop, the more skill points they gain, the more expensive ships they fly, the more they become like every other alliance in the game û the more the horrendous kill / death ratio will hurt them. Crushing defeats night after night will take its toll.
The coalition propaganda machine is in full swing - if we say it enough then maybe people will believe it, maybe the BoB membership will believe it - maybe it's just bullsh*t.
The only reason why I've posted in this tone, is to put an opposite point of view to the one being presented in this thread. This war will ebb and flow much more before either side crumbles. I'm loving the way it's turning into a real competition - six weeks ago it looked like BoB would walk right through Goon space, but credit to the Coalition for sorting their house out. Lets hope it continues for many more months.
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Johnfromshipping
Butcherbirds
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:49:00 -
[94]
K/D ratio. People still think that is a valid metric to measure success in sov warfare against anyone? Especially goons who are built upon drowning you in their wrecks?
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Ki An
Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:53:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Johnfromshipping K/D ratio. People still think that is a valid metric to measure success in sov warfare against anyone? Especially goons who are built upon drowning you in their wrecks?
That depends. If goons only fly t1 frigates, then no, k/d ratio doesn't mean squat. However, as the guy a couple of posts up said, goons are building skillpoints just like everyone else, and they are no longer just flying t1 frigs (even tho they still love those apparently). No alliance can sustain a war when you lose 5-10 ships for every enemy you take down. Sooner or later you either have to improve that ratio, or you will go bankrupt.
/Ki
Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:53:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Hunter Thompson (...) maybe it's just bullsh*t. (...)
Not maybe.
This guy keep saying "ahaha, Bob loose" without being on the front, so, it is bull****. Bob is not loosing, they are just having a bad time now, like we had last month, like they had the month before, etc. RSF is not D¦, we play very differently (not better or worse, we play different). Bob play a third game, all I can say it's cool, we are all having a good time. We can rest, they can't.
But they are the nbdr dletd afterall. -=-=-
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Flow Befort
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:01:00 -
[97]
this thread is now about k/d ratios
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Angelus Damelon
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:03:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Johnfromshipping K/D ratio. People still think that is a valid metric to measure success in sov warfare against anyone? Especially goons who are built upon drowning you in their wrecks?
That depends. If goons only fly t1 frigates, then no, k/d ratio doesn't mean squat. However, as the guy a couple of posts up said, goons are building skillpoints just like everyone else, and they are no longer just flying t1 frigs (even tho they still love those apparently). No alliance can sustain a war when you lose 5-10 ships for every enemy you take down. Sooner or later you either have to improve that ratio, or you will go bankrupt.
/Ki
Given the drop in T2 prices, it really doesn't cost that much to lose an insured T1 hull that is T2 fit, as well as the cheaper T2 hulls. Particularly if you have put any effort into more passive income like trading, or have an alt that can be busy ratting/mining/missioning in between battles.
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Beyond Horizon
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:04:00 -
[99]
k/d ratio ! -
BH |
Ki An
Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:07:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Ki An on 26/07/2007 19:09:21
Originally by: Angelus Damelon Given the drop in T2 prices, it really doesn't cost that much to lose an insured T1 hull that is T2 fit, as well as the cheaper T2 hulls. Particularly if you have put any effort into more passive income like trading, or have an alt that can be busy ratting/mining/missioning in between battles.
True, but for every PvPer that needs to go grind isk to replace his ship, that's one less on the frontline. Given the numbers involved, I'd say that might have a serious impact on future battles. But what do I know? My k/d ratio sucks.
/Ki
/Edit: Got rid of a wayward 'n'. Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
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Julian Kirov
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:14:00 -
[101]
Originally by: OozoO
Quote:
Third, and perhaps most importantly, it was a question of timing, not of priorities. She will be there the next day, but those BoB POSes might not be.
epic!
QFT
On the whole though, it was quite an entertaining post for the first half, just please, leave out the girlfriend / "hey guys, I really do have a life!" defensive parts next time. I would hope the majority of players understand the impact of trust and communication in regards to morale to begin with.
Hope part three continues to provide some excellent soap opera afternoon entertainment!
In the meantime, both sides will be duking it out in space. This war is a long way from being over and there are numerous epic battles yet to be fought. The only real loser in this war and victim of blatant propaganda, is CCP for thinking TQ could handle the massive fleet battles like we've created.
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ForumPosterAlt
HERRO KITTY
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:16:00 -
[102]
As proof with all the alliances that have disbanded (none are are destroyed) and given up, and those that have fought relentlessly to the last isk, its all about what players will do rather what they can do.
A group of players can combat bob and win, no crap, its just that group of players needs strong leadership. Much like Aragorn says when he accepts the sword of the king of gondor, leaders must lead, a leader must be there, a leader's will, determination, and faith are what gives those who follow him resolve when the going gets tough, and hope in the shadow of defeat.
Now the leader doesn't take constellations, they just provide the leadership to bring many players together for a common purpose. So making little of BoB's competent leadership is a mistake imo. SirMolle isn't used to defeat and made a mistake in being overly confident in victory vs RSC. It brings his leadership into question in the minds of many bobbites, and the best thing he can do right now for the future of BoB is to humble his arrogant alliance and make it clear that victory isn't certain, that the number of quality players in BoB isn't enough to hold all that blue space, and start being smart again.
In short, BoB is losing right now because they are being extremely reckless. We can look to history and the fall of Rome to see where this train's is headed if it keeps this up.
Because posting on the forums is serious business. |
Fornacis
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:20:00 -
[103]
The more I read.... the more I find myself attracted to you ....
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Torshin
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:24:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Obron Mettlo
Originally by: Torshin I believe a member of Pandemic mentioned that he can not remember the last time that BOB lost a station that was firmly in their control. During the Seige of Feyth I believe that both AZN and VNGJ fell for a period of time. Also there is the issue of IAC in Querious taking the H74 station i think. But that one was more of a sov issue.
I said "firmly in control" because there have been bugs that messed sov up, or because the system was actively contested - 9-9 and XGH were BoB's stations until Goonswarm came back and took them from BoB.
I don't see how either of the stations that i mentioned were not firmly bob controlled. AZN and VNGJ were spammed by Gek fair and square. there was no sov bug -------------------------------------------
Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign. I'm Shinra and I'm the champion of Eve. |
Inthemix
Division Solaris
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Posted - 2007.07.26 19:40:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 26/07/2007 16:25:23 The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances.
From a guy who losted 5 ships against BoB (0 kill..), mmmmm i feel your pain
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.26 20:04:00 -
[106]
I wonder if you actually believe what you write . You should write fiction in the rp secion though because you do have a knack for telling tales
GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE |
xCOUNTx
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 20:07:00 -
[107]
I'm the girlfriend in the OP Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected][orange] with a link to your signature. - Elm |
Itzena
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 20:08:00 -
[108]
Originally by: fire 59 I wonder if you actually believe what you write . You should write fiction in the rp secion though because you do have a knack for telling tales
Keep posting, fire 59.
-- Nothing will improve the way things currently are. |
Beyond Horizon
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.07.26 20:12:00 -
[109]
59 problems, but FAILURE CASCADE ain't one. -
BH |
Syntosk
Amarr The Undertakers United Corporations of Eve
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Posted - 2007.07.26 20:45:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Doodar Snipped soon (tm)
Excuse-me sir, i think this dropped out of your pocket...
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Xanja
2H Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.26 20:52:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Hunter Thompson Edited by: Hunter Thompson on 26/07/2007 18:46:12
Now I have an opinion on why the Goons will ultimately lose. The more Goons develop, the more skill points they gain, the more expensive ships they fly, the more they become like every other alliance in the game û the more the horrendous kill / death ratio will hurt them. Crushing defeats night after night will take its toll.
I don't think you GET goons.
There's plenty of goons around this days who have plenty of Sp and could fly whatever ship they choose. Yet, they will always enjoy it way more though, to fly cheap crap and mess your day up.
If the day should ever come where goons, as a collective, feel seriously threatened in EVE, you'll see a fleet that will truly make you tremble in awe.
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Lowa
Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:11:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Tobruk James, Have you sent copies of these to Prof. Dawkins? he might find some entertainment value in his book titles and prose style being used in an online game.
He, was thinking that as well.
As for the rest; long read, too much air.
/Lowa
What if the truth was something else? |
Kashre
Minmatar Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:30:00 -
[113]
Just my 2 cents, but I think someone needs to go back to propaganda school and consider making it accessible to the people you're tying to convince. I'd wager that almost the only people who bothered to read all of that were people who already hate bob anyways. :P
+++ "Etiquette is for the Dojo. In war there is only victory or death." - Eiji Yoshikawa |
Convict412
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:37:00 -
[114]
this looks more like goons forum then accurate informations tbh. it shoud be in section "roleplay spam".
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Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:37:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Kashre Just my 2 cents, but I think someone needs to go back to propaganda school and consider making it accessible to the people you're tying to convince. I'd wager that almost the only people who bothered to read all of that were people who already hate bob anyways. :P
I hate bob but didn't read it. I accept your apology.
I live under a bridge
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:45:00 -
[116]
Another nice read. I've said it before, and I'll say it again- ever thought of writing for the tabloids?
Again, there are some granules of truth scattered through it, but undoubtedly a fair bit of untruth too. Very interesting all the same. --------
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Zeros Omega
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:52:00 -
[117]
Originally by: TWD
Originally by: James 315 ... As observed by such noted CAOD posters as DigitalCommunist and James 315 ...
You're not. All I see is a bitter ex-ASCN pilot trying to spin history to make the disbanding of the alliance he was part of less painful.
TWD man, I swear, James 315 is Cyvok. I mean, it makes perfect sense! --- History is written on the sands of Arrakis. A chapter has ended, swept away by the whirlwind. One door has closed, but another has opened. And on the other side... our future... |
PirateShampoo
Minmatar UK Corp FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:53:00 -
[118]
It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine.
What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end.
I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken.
Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding.
I am of course just a grunt, and these opinions may not represent everyone in LV. But I can tell you it certainly represents the feelings of my LV friends.
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SchirmerN
Amarr WKK Inc. United Corporations Against Macros
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Posted - 2007.07.26 21:56:00 -
[119]
Edited by: SchirmerN on 26/07/2007 21:57:20 Arghhh Wall of text! Must have taken some time to write
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:16:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Itzena
Originally by: fire 59 I wonder if you actually believe what you write . You should write fiction in the rp secion though because you do have a knack for telling tales
Keep posting, fire 59.
keep posting itzena
GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE |
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