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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:35:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Angelus Damelon
Originally by: Prez21 Bob arnt losing they win most battles and kill alot more ships than there enemies, i will agree that they arnt doing aswel as before, but after seeing all the garbage posts 6 months back about how bob would be dead within a month they dont seem to be doing to bad do they?
The stations they have lost are stations that they already took of goons and friends so its not like its a major loss to them. When i see Bob losing more BS than they kill and start losing stations closer to home than i,ll take these post alittle more serious, until then it doesnt mean a thing.
This is not a flame; however, I truly believe that only people who were involved in the southern front of the war can understand just how broken Titans were before Rev II and how multiple Titans completely changed fleet warfare. Even BoB leadership admitted that they were broken pre-nerf.
Examine the territory that BoB gained in the south (all of it pre-nerf). 9-9, XGH, and Omist -- which was abandoned by GS, just as it was abandoned by LV; it is a difficult area to defend from attack from Tenerifis / Detorid once you lose control of 9-9, due to moon count and choke points.
Omist was thus won by default once BoB captured 9-9. They captured 9-9 by spamming POS (again, huge moon count); thanks to Titans, both subcapital fleets and fighter drones became strategically worthless -- with 4 Titans, BoB could fire a DD every 15 minutes, or fire multiple DDs at once to wipe out even the heaviest tanked battleship (which would ultimately be so heavily gimped by fitting that tank that it would be rendered worthless anyway). Further, they were able to deploy their own subcapitals and fighters at will. Once solidifying their hold on 9-9, the same tactic was used to take XGH.
Just like no one expects an opposing fleet to hold their fire if the opposing fleet has clearly crashed or desynced, no one can blame BoB for taking full advantage of their wealth to spam POS and Titan invulnerability to turn the southern battles into Capital Ships Online, removing subcapitals from any relevance.
Post-nerf, BoB has lost XGH and 9-9. 2 stations in Omist have already been taken by TCF and I believe a third is either taken by UNL or will be within days, once sov kicks in. That leaves 2 stations that BoB has taken from RSF from the beginning of the war in the south, D2EZ and 66-, both of which are being heavily fought over right now.
9-9 and XGH in particular were taken both by sieging BoB POSes and counter-spamming larges. Any kind of POS battle report would show that BoB has been nearly unable to defend their own POSes when they come out of reinforced, while also being unable to take out RSF POSes when they come out of reinforced. This same kind of warfare is going on in D2EZ and 66-.
This is not to say that BoB is dead, nor that anyone really expects them to failure cascade back to Delve within the next week.
Since the leveling of the battlefield, BoB has continued to lose ground. They have won particular battles, and almost always have a better kill:death ratio. However, kill:death ratio is meaningless unless it weakens your enemy's morale or outpaces their logistics, production, or wealth, which it has yet to do.
To conclude: BoB has not lost yet. But they are losing, at the moment. That does not exclude the possibility that they will regroup or call in more allies and stall the push into Omist; however, the only way to analyze the current situation and come to any other conclusion than "BoB is losing" is by looking purely at kill:death ratio, which is utterly meaningless.
Also: guys guys MY GIRLFRIEND
concise post of the year award. ---
truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players"
Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
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Nikita Jones
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:37:00 -
[62]
I wouldn't be surprised if your girlfriend is actually a BOB spy. Be careful what you tell her, seems strange her being around while you checked on BOB POS's. Probably a plant.
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:38:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Endeva
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances.
so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF
TBH you got your ass handed to you on a couple of occasions by mixed IRON-led fleets. JU-OWQ and H74 come to mind.
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Distrans
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:39:00 -
[64]
wrath supermodels kickboxing arrogance bahahaa
لللللللللل |
Astarte Nosferatu
We Know Derek Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:39:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Zell Edited by: Zell on 26/07/2007 17:16:07
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu One of the best series in months on CAOD. There's surprisingly not much truth in the James 315 posts threads.
fixed
Ooh, an alt fixed my post. I feel all special inside.
Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
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Astarte Nosferatu
We Know Derek Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:41:00 -
[66]
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: Endeva
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances.
so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF
TBH you got your ass handed to you on a couple of occasions by mixed IRON-led fleets. JU-OWQ and H74 come to mind.
Down in Querious, BoB lost quite a lot of fleet fights against IRON-led fleets. Unless off course they had 1-2 Titans, several Motherships and dozens of Carriers/Dreadnaught as 'support'.
Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:42:00 -
[67]
What is now necessary is for the aura of invincibility to be broken. When Bob pilots wake up from the Dream they have been living - when doubt creeps into their minds - that is when their defeat begins. I feel the attempt to keep that doubt away is the main goal of Bob at the moment. As witness, I point to how any critique of Bob is immeatiately flamed with one-lines from Pets and Alts. This is their propoganda machine attempting to pull the rug back over the ugly thing that was unearthed. Look at James' first analysis for examples of that behavior.
I predict that when Bob does eventually fall, it will not be by the inability of Bob pilots to field quality ships or due to significant strategic losses. It will be a sudden event, where all the rats suddenly flee the sinking ship. As pointed out before, many of their players have switched sides before and therefore why not do it again?
What I expect (and admittedly via my own propaganda attempt to encourage) is the Pet morale to break first. I was encouraged with the expulsion of Xelas, not because of any weaking of Bob by losing Xelas but rather because I hoped other Pets would look twice at their Master and wonder when the rolled-up newspaper would be swung in their direction. Fix's current prediciment may mean that MC comes to save them. I hope Fix sees that it is not Bob who is saving them, but another entity, and realize that Bob has no right to Master Fix.
When those events start, it will be interesting to see how many of Bob pilots will fight to the death now that it will mean their death instead of someone elses.
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Pesadel0
Ordem dos Templarios Pax Atlantis
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:44:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Beyond Horizon Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/07/2007 17:28:22
Originally by: Elmer Phud James you lost all credibility with that post claiming BL resigned from BNC due to Shrike's titan loss. Thats where you went from 'amusing troll' to just 'troll'.
Really, you must be a sad sad little man to spend so much time writing your own version of EvE history.
Its pathetic yet fascinating at the same time.
Are you just making that up or is there a "voice" telling you that?
EDIT: i'm talking about the part where you claim that James is in fact telling that BL left because of Shrike's titan loss
Horizon SHC.
I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP. |
Tessa Vaako
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:44:00 -
[69]
Excellent post! Would read again! -- In Concordia, Vires. Ex Discordia, Gloria.
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Kuentai
Moloko.
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:46:00 -
[70]
Nice post.
"The good man has few enemies, but the ruthless... None."
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:46:00 -
[71]
Combat: James 315 strikes you perfectly, wrecking for self-doubt.
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Liu Kaskakka
PAK
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:47:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Nikita Jones I wouldn't be surprised if your girlfriend is actually a BOB spy. Be careful what you tell her, seems strange her being around while you checked on BOB POS's. Probably a plant.
^_^
King Liu is RIGHT!!
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Vladimir Titov
Minmatar Knights of the Minmatar Republic
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:51:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 26/07/2007 17:51:18 I got in trouble last time I posted with my main (in the GBC) so this time this is self-admittedly an alt.
I wanted to address what you said about how PvP'ers are recruited from among BoB's targets. You really hit on a point I often spent a long time thinking about. But I don't agree with regards to saying they are riding cotails of others.
The thing is, when you are a vet who has been playing EvE since launch, you really have very few options. I spent most of my 4+ years in EvE fighting against Evolution or its allies and interests. First it was FA/SA, then ATUK, then ATUK's pets and the 5 and so on. So for me after so many battles there is no aura of invincibility or feeling that fighting them is futile. They are just people, and when someone like me is always thinking several steps ahead in a fight, more often than not I was able to not let them get the best of me. It takes a lot of control, patience and determination to fight these people and to know when to strike. I cannot emphasis patience enough.
Whenever it was a war of wills, my will was something that could never be broken. If ATUK did not want to show its hand and was waiting for my fleet to camp the gate so they could dictate the fight, I would simply keep my fleet in an SS and deny them that pleasure, for as long as it took.
The way I feel about BoB is very clear, but I also came to a realization that this was a game, and I was tired constantly offering guidance to people with less experience than me or did not approach EvE with the same competitive edge as me. Its impossible to win a battle of wills when the people you are with break down easy. It wears you down. Yet at the same time I didn't want to join BoB because it is those who go against BoB that stand out in EvE. For better or worse, they are the people that are remembered. But like I said, your options are limited. I suppose if I could speak russian I would have joined RA, but I don't. Instead I created this alt with this name to honor their achievements in EvE.
Joining BoB or the GBC is not about taking the easy road or winning all the time. Its about joining people who have the same hunger as you, who will analyze a fight after its done instead of saying "oh well its just a game and that was fun". You want people who will be there in battleships after they lose their dreads, in cruisers after they lose their battleships...and so on. Its not only about pvp though. You want to be able to go to bed at night and not worry about a POS's fuel level. The worst feeling possible is feeling when the weight of the world is on your shoulders, that if you don't log in certain things wont get done. Finally you want to fly with people that don't know the meaning of impossible. If item xyz needs to be in system abc in the next day, they will treat the same way you do: find a way to get it done. And to top it all, I wanted leadership that is going to make the best use of my peristence and tenacity, not leadership that will demand 1/5th of what I can really do.
And so the choices become really slim, and before I knew it, I found myself in a situation I didn't think I would. I am not riding their cotails, they are riding mine.
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:51:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Butter Dog on 26/07/2007 17:52:07
Well... all I can say is.... what-evar
I've been making these points about BoB for ages, I can't be arsed anymore. What you've said is fairly accurate but I can't help thinking 'so what'.
The fact is, I quite like BoB these days, and I absolutely hate the Goons.
Yes, BoB are manipulative, but they are still very good at what they do, and I think some people are in danger of actually starting to underestimate them, which would be rather silly.
We all know that when the dust settles, BoB + Friends will win. An endless string of victories followed by one minor defeat (caused by choosing not to deploy capitals in current desynch-induced hell) does not change anything.
Goons et al are purely delusional if they think a single hiccup is the symptom of an underlying terminal illness. The Goons won't die, but they will lose the war. And you can quote me on that at some later point. I'm always right
---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
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Endeva
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:52:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Endeva on 26/07/2007 17:54:28 Edited by: Endeva on 26/07/2007 17:53:32
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: Endeva
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances.
so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF
TBH you got your ass handed to you on a couple of occasions by mixed IRON-led fleets. JU-OWQ and H74 come to mind.
Down in Querious, BoB lost quite a lot of fleet fights against IRON-led fleets. Unless off course they had 1-2 Titans, several Motherships and dozens of Carriers/Dreadnaught as 'support'.
you and NATMav didnt get me or i type wrong.sorry not native english speaker.
let me clear you guy from tcf said we never fought trully oriented pvp force. thats why i asked him were you carebers? i think no. but someone think yes. got it?
edit:type and bah nvm
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Torshin
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:55:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Beyond Horizon Edited by: Beyond Horizon on 26/07/2007 17:28:22
Originally by: Elmer Phud James you lost all credibility with that post claiming BL resigned from BNC due to Shrike's titan loss. Thats where you went from 'amusing troll' to just 'troll'.
Really, you must be a sad sad little man to spend so much time writing your own version of EvE history.
Its pathetic yet fascinating at the same time.
Are you just making that up or is there a "voice" telling you that?
EDIT: i'm talking about the part where you claim that James is in fact telling that BL left because of Shrike's titan loss
no james did state this earlier, if you want ill find the quote -------------------------------------------
Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign. I'm Shinra and I'm the champion of Eve. |
Gerog
Gallente Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:55:00 -
[77]
Nice Read. Passed some time at work. Should of left the g/f out of it. Those that came before us are our bridge into history, but we must move forward and never forget the lessons of the past. |
Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:55:00 -
[78]
Also the whole title of your thread makes a false assumption: 'why are BoB losing?'
They're not losing. Thats the problem with your whole stance. In a long war you expect offensive + counteroffensive. Thats happening. But no-one is yet victorious. Which means, by default, that no-one is losing.
In fact, by most valid measures, BoB are winning very convincingly. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
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Unholy Preacher
Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:57:00 -
[79]
Good writing as always, tho you did go into your girlfriend issues a bit too much to prove your point on communication
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Dominixa
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.07.26 17:59:00 -
[80]
"Discourtesy does not spring merely from one bad quality, but from several--from foolish vanity, from ignorance of what is due to others, from indolence, from stupidity, from distraction of thought, from contempt of others, from jealousy."
Sir, I believe you posses the latter.
Originally by: Princess Jodi What is now necessary is for the aura of invincibility to be broken. When Bob pilots wake up from the Dream they have been living - when doubt creeps into their minds - that is when their defeat begins. I feel the attempt to keep that doubt away is the main goal of Bob at the moment. As witness, I point to how any critique of Bob is immeatiately flamed with one-lines from Pets and Alts. This is their propoganda machine attempting to pull the rug back over the ugly thing that was unearthed. Look at James' first analysis for examples of that behavior.
I predict that when Bob does eventually fall, it will not be by the inability of Bob pilots to field quality ships or due to significant strategic losses. It will be a sudden event, where all the rats suddenly flee the sinking ship. As pointed out before, many of their players have switched sides before and therefore why not do it again?
What I expect (and admittedly via my own propaganda attempt to encourage) is the Pet morale to break first. I was encouraged with the expulsion of Xelas, not because of any weaking of Bob by losing Xelas but rather because I hoped other Pets would look twice at their Master and wonder when the rolled-up newspaper would be swung in their direction. Fix's current prediciment may mean that MC comes to save them. I hope Fix sees that it is not Bob who is saving them, but another entity, and realize that Bob has no right to Master Fix.
When those events start, it will be interesting to see how many of Bob pilots will fight to the death now that it will mean their death instead of someone elses.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
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Swatte Kudasai
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:04:00 -
[81]
I agree with James 315, attacking RA, TCF, Goons, IAC & KOS in their own section of space at the same time is the move of a coward. BoB aligned forces in Omist/Teneferis brought some yellow-bellied amount like....40% as many pilots as their enemies, their own allies included. Those sissy little girls, real men fight with 20% of the enemies numbers or don't fight at all.
God.
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Achaiah
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:06:00 -
[82]
Ah, Butter Dog is posting in BoB's defence on CAOD. Now they truly are doomed.
Nice read BTW, I'm looking forward to next part.
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Erik Amirault
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:09:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Erik Amirault on 26/07/2007 18:10:55
Originally by: Swatte Kudasai I agree with James 315, attacking RA, TCF, Goons, IAC & KOS in their own section of space at the same time is the move of a coward. BoB aligned forces in Omist/Teneferis brought some yellow-bellied amount like....40% as many pilots as their enemies, their own allies included. Those sissy little girls, real men fight with 20% of the enemies numbers or don't fight at all.
God.
You forgot the part where they had 4 rotating titans that were perpetually online and an enormous cap fleet. Also, looking at number of players in alliances doesn't really work. We have huge numbers of part-time players whereas other alliances are founded on the ****-sock ethic. More often than not fleet fights have been even except during major operations run by either side.
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Puncher
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:13:00 -
[84]
This one is good James, even including sections of pure objectivity this time which is refreshing; however not of the same caliber is Part 1.
Now it remains to be seen, will you pull off a Return of the Jedi, or a Matrix: Revolutions.
hirr Morsus Mihi |
Mihailo Great
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:16:00 -
[85]
I don't know why you people didn't understand how his experience with his girlfriend relates to the communication meltdown in BOB. It was pretty clear and spot on.
Below average reading comprehension?
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Attak
Trioptimum FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:18:00 -
[86]
Didn't enjoy the GF part too much (does she kickbox?), but the rest was a good read. Again I'll take it with a grain of salt, but there's a few truths that can't be ignored - namely the fact that what holds the majority of BoB together is the desire to always win. When BoB begins to inexcusably lose, it will bleed all those pilots who joined just to be part of the entity that crushed their former alliance so completely.
What you have to watch out for is when BoB is done hemmoraging space and members from their defeat, what will be left is the core. The vets of EVOL, RKK and the rest who aren't there to win. They're there to be BoB. They're the people to be scared of. I wouldn't be surprised if BoB turned into another version of TRI once their space is gone.
But what's sad now is BoB's desperate attempts to salvage morale and keep people motivated that shouldn't be in their alliance to begin with.
I hope part III doesn't take too long
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Epoh
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:20:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Swatte Kudasai I agree with James 315, attacking RA, TCF, Goons, IAC & KOS in their own section of space at the same time is the move of a coward. BoB aligned forces in Omist/Teneferis brought some yellow-bellied amount like....40% as many pilots as their enemies, their own allies included. Those sissy little girls, real men fight with 20% of the enemies numbers or don't fight at all.
So your enemies are expanding at a greater rate than you are. You:
Option 1: Attack now, hoping to prevent their growth.
Option 2: Wait and let them build up more defensive/offensive capabilities.
It's like a choose-your-own-adventure book for the challenged, so I'm reasonably sure you can choose the result which leads less certainly to inevitable death. Epoh Goonfleet Goonswarm |
Obron Mettlo
Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:22:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Torshin I believe a member of Pandemic mentioned that he can not remember the last time that BOB lost a station that was firmly in their control. During the Seige of Feyth I believe that both AZN and VNGJ fell for a period of time. Also there is the issue of IAC in Querious taking the H74 station i think. But that one was more of a sov issue.
I said "firmly in control" because there have been bugs that messed sov up, or because the system was actively contested - 9-9 and XGH were BoB's stations until Goonswarm came back and took them from BoB. -----------------
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Fallen Buckshot
Amarr Shadow Gypsies R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:23:00 -
[89]
This thread needs less Butterdog more Boonaki TBH
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Kola XXX
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.26 18:35:00 -
[90]
I didn't read you're pages of speculations. I just jump right to the conclusion that you love BoB. ..
"Why Is BoB Losing?" my morale backbone. " Why is BoB still in Nol-?"
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