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Why Is BoB Losing? Part II: Survival of the Faithless

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Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:33:00 - [331] Originally by: Ravysa Delorean I hope BoB and Goons lose. Four months after we stop being threatened with extinction we'll collapse in a giant pile of drama
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:10:00 - [332] Originally by: Gentle Glide Im a pirate, making me completly unbias'd in this. But check this out, your an idiot. Goonfleet while comprimised of noobs and up and coming players, has the skills incoming. There getting better. And your getting scared. Goonfleet would BBQ Fatal and i know it because my best friend IRL's charecter is in Fatal. Goonfleet is good at Eve. and they dont care about loosing ships, there morale is so high and that makes them even more dangerous because they wont just say "This sucks im leaving" like LV/V did (which if im not mistaken comprises most of your alliance?) get over it stop making yourself look closed minded and stupid. BoB has found its match. GL to all involved, come through rancer How does anybody in eve get scared? its not like we realy die buddy as the blobs we now face show. And as far as them getting more skilled, nope again bud they are just getting more numbers and the state of the game suits their style at present with all the desynch. Goon runs the blob its that simple. But i agree its the numbers that count in eve not skill or know how so yes the numbers and their blob makes them "good at eve". And BOB did not meet its match it created it by beating every large alliance in the game for ages. They gathered up and the result is the huge blobs we now see. Now i do not blame goon or any of the others for doing this because its the natural order of any situation and if you check the history books its happened to every empire in history, Greek, Roman, British we all beat so many and made so many enemies we eventualy could'nt contain them and got pushed out by sheer force of numbers. But that eventuality is down to the skill of BOB and its allies by beating so many not the skill of the blobs they now face. If you cannot see that it is you who is the close minded idiot who looks stupid.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:49:00 - [333] Okay, I will say this again, and it will probably fall on deaf ears. 1) we've spent a fair chunk of time with number inferiority in the past, and will do in the future. 2) We have more people because we have very experienced people in an aspect of pvp. People management. Some of our directors are expects at forging and MAINTAINING relationships, and that's why we can bring more to the fight. It's all pvp.
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 16:18:00 - [334] Edited by: Murina on 31/07/2007 16:19:01 Originally by: KIATolon Okay, I will say this again, and it will probably fall on deaf ears. 1) we've spent a fair chunk of time with number inferiority in the past, and will do in the future. 2) We have more people because we have very experienced people in an aspect of pvp. People management. Some of our directors are expects at forging and MAINTAINING relationships, and that's why we can bring more to the fight. It's all pvp. I hear everything you have said. I do remember when you had "less" numbers because you lost. (but then you are also one of the few alliances in eve that have lost when you had more) And its easy to maintain and forge relationships when your recruiting ppl who just or in the past got there asses handed to them by the guys you want them to fight. And creating a titanic blob is not an aspect of pvp or a skill it is an abuse of it. But like he said it happened in the history of the planet and its happening now in eve and will happen again if we get pushed together just like we did to you. Its like a wave in a bath tub it hits a point of maximum density at one end and it has no choice but to push back. Enjoy your time at the front of the wave if you understand the concept then pretty soon it will be you losing ground as soon as it hits the end of the tub.
Hexman The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.07.31 16:43:00 - [335] I think the best part of this post is the ensuing debate and not the OP's content. after reading a bit of all the rabblerabble and trolling in the last 9-or so pages, I'll just limit myself to one comment. The OP was doing ok in the previous posts, until this last one, which contains more bias and assumptions than facts and real analisys. The point at which I said "ok this has lost all value" is when he says "Goons are fighting for freedom..." !?? I'm not for or against either side here...but I mean, it's a game. Goons don't fight for freedom or any higher-principles (even if the propganda says so). They fight because it's fun, and it feeds their e-peen to beat BoB. Maybe they even hate BoB a bit. But that's it. On the other side, BoB fights not for the "endgame"...it fights, I think, purely for e-peen. Maybe I'm wrong, but the point is that "fighting for freedom" sounded too clichT and waaaaay out of context. Yarr!
Crivens GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:27:00 - [336] Originally by: Murina But like he said it happened in the history of the planet and its happening now in eve and will happen again if we get pushed together just like we did to you. Its like a wave in a bath tub it hits a point of maximum density at one end and it has no choice but to push back. So it's like a pendulum ?
Murina Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 17:57:00 - [337] Edited by: Murina on 31/07/2007 17:59:30 Originally by: Crivens Originally by: Murina But like he said it happened in the history of the planet and its happening now in eve and will happen again if we get pushed together just like we did to you. Its like a wave in a bath tub it hits a point of maximum density at one end and it has no choice but to push back. So it's like a pendulum ? Nope a pendulum relies on inertia and gravity it does not create an oposing force with its own movment that eventualy pushes it back as BOB did with you guys. Think of it as squeezing somthing into a small space that cannot be poped (as eve cannot) eventualy it becomes so compact the force it generates is greater that the force you can apply to keep it contained. BOB pushed you ascn and god knows how many others back into a smaller area than you were in one at a time. You then got together. And as a huge compact entity you have tremendous force as you break out, and BOB and allies now having to cover the space you were removed from no longer have the numbers in one place to keep you bottled up. But the more area you expand into and need to cover the less force or "squirty" as my 4yr old niece calls it (she is here atm and im trying to explain as i type sori) you have. Until eventualy you either find a point of rest and the war stalls or you push BOB into the same position you were in and they then "squirty" you. Unless eve create a genocide gun that totaly kills your character then this will always be the case as nobody can actualy remove another from the game. So all we end up doing is creating oposing forces every time we win a war or become successful.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:26:00 - [338] So what I'm getting from this thread is that having superior numbers is in fact a noobie exploit and in no way a valid tactic that has been in use for as long as our race has existed.
Popperr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 18:33:00 - [339] Originally by: Relaria Hossin So what I'm getting from this thread is that having superior numbers is in fact a noobie exploit and in no way a valid tactic that has been in use for as long as our race has existed. Exactly, after all the soco had superior numbers but they were too honorable to destroy redswarm utterly and remove us from their stations. They were also far too respectful of each other to coordinate and instead sold each other out one by one.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:14:00 - [340] Originally by: Relaria Hossin So what I'm getting from this thread is that having superior numbers is in fact a noobie exploit and in no way a valid tactic that has been in use for as long as our race has existed. There is nothing tactical about a blob it is just a unfortunate result of to much success.

Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:34:00 - [341] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:34:16 Tactics are not limited to how well you fit and fly your personal ship. Tactics encompasses all aspects of warfare including the gathering and organizing of warm bodies to do the fighting. If you are being out-blobbed as you put it, there are many solutions including but not limited to recruiting more people to fight for your side. Goonswarm's "secret" to it's numbers is actually not a secret at all. The main source of pilots are people who have never even played EVE before. We recruit these new players, give them ships, move them to 0.0 space and begin teaching them how to be a useful pilot in PvP from their very first day as a member. The result of this method of recruitment is easily apparent if you take a look at how Goonswarm has started and how far it's members have come. We have people who were flying frigates in Syndicate who now field Dreadnoughts for our capital fleet. Throughout their entire time in EVE these players have been in the deep end of EVE, PvPing with players who have been playing for months and even years longer than they have. If you're being outnumbered by people who are recruiting more people to the game and training them from newbies, the obvious solution is to step up recruitment yourselves. I fully endorse people recruiting more newbies into EVE regardless what corporation is doing it because in the end the winner will be EVE itself.
Moon Kitten GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:41:00 - [342] Edited by: Moon Kitten on 31/07/2007 19:42:13 Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Relaria Hossin So what I'm getting from this thread is that having superior numbers is in fact a noobie exploit and in no way a valid tactic that has been in use for as long as our race has existed. There is nothing tactical about a blob it is just a unfortunate result of to much success. Superiority of numbers is in tactics, as well as in strategy, the most general principle of victory, and shall be examined by us first in its generality, for which we may be permitted the following exposition: Strategy fixes the point where, the time when, and the numerical force with which the battle is to be fought. By this triple determination it has therefore a very essential influence on the issue of the combat. If tactics has fought the battle, if the result is over, let it be victory or defeat, strategy makes such use of it as can be made in accordance with the great object of the war. This object of the war is naturally often a very distant one, seldom does it lie quite close at hand. A series of other objects subordinate themselves to it as means. These objects, which are at the same time means to a higher object, may be practically of various kinds; even the ultimate aim of the whole war is a different one in every war. We shall make ourselves acquainted with these things according as we become acquainted with the separate objects which they come in contact with; and it is not our intention here to embrace the whole subject by a complete enumeration of them, even if that were possible. We therefore let the employment of the battle stand over for the present. Even those things through which strategy has an influence on the issue of the combat, inasmuch as it establishes the same, to a certain extent decrees them, are not so simple that they can be embraced in one single view For as strategy appoints time, place and force, it can do so in practice in many ways, each of which influences in a different manner the result of the combat as well as its consequences. Therefore we shall only get acquainted with this also by degrees, that is, through the subjects which determine more closely the application. If we strip the combat of all modifications which it may undergo according to its immediate purpose and the circumstances from which it proceeds, lastly if we set aside the valour of the troops, because that is a given quantity, then there remains only the bare conception of the combat, that is a combat without form, in which we distinguish nothing but the number of the combatants. This number will therefore determine victory. Now from the number of things above deducted to get to this point, it is shown that the superiority in numbers in a battle is only one of the factors employed to produce victory; that therefore so far from having with the superiority in number obtained all, or even only the principal thing, we have perhaps got very little by it, according as the other circumstances which co-operate happen to be so, or so. But this superiority has degrees, it it may be imagined, twofold, threefold or four times as many, etc., etc., and every one sees, that by increasing in this way, it must (at last) overpower everything else. In such an aspect we grant, that the superiority in numbers is the most important factor in the result of a combat, only it must be sufficiently great to be a counterpoise to all the other co-operating circumstances. The direct result of this is, that the greatest possible number of troops should be brought into action at the decisive point. Kind regards, -dpq Junior Skymarshal, of the Goonswarm Alliance
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 19:49:00 - [343] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:51:23 Originally by: Moon Kitten -Carl Von Clausewitz: "On War"
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 20:14:00 - [344] Edited by: Martin VanBuren on 31/07/2007 20:14:12 Originally by: Relaria Hossin Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:51:23 Originally by: Moon Kitten -Carl Von Clausewitz: "On War" Clausewitz was a much better strategist than Sun Tzu tbqh imho
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 21:45:00 - [345] Originally by: Relaria Hossin Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:34:16 Tactics are not limited to how well you fit and fly your personal ship. Tactics encompasses all aspects of warfare including the gathering and organizing of warm bodies to do the fighting. If you are being out-blobbed as you put it, there are many solutions including but not limited to recruiting more people to fight for your side. Goonswarm's "secret" to it's numbers is actually not a secret at all. The main source of pilots are people who have never even played EVE before. We recruit these new players, give them ships, move them to 0.0 space and begin teaching them how to be a useful pilot in PvP from their very first day as a member. The result of this method of recruitment is easily apparent if you take a look at how Goonswarm has started and how far it's members have come. We have people who were flying frigates in Syndicate who now field Dreadnoughts for our capital fleet. Throughout their entire time in EVE these players have been in the deep end of EVE, PvPing with players who have been playing for months and even years longer than they have. If you're being outnumbered by people who are recruiting more people to the game and training them from newbies, the obvious solution is to step up recruitment yourselves. I fully endorse people recruiting more newbies into EVE regardless what corporation is doing it because in the end the winner will be EVE itself. I agree that tactics cover more than fitting your ship or having loads of skill points but sorry bud gaining noobs using them like lemmings and calling it a tactic does not make you skilled in anything. Read the long winded post about it your buddy put up especialy this part il translate for ppl who are finding it a bit of a hard read. "If we strip the combat of all modifications which it may undergo according to its immediate purpose and the circumstances from which it proceeds, lastly if we set aside the valour of the troops, because that is a given quantity, then there remains only the bare conception of the combat, that is a combat without form, in which we distinguish nothing but the number of the combatants". This number will therefore determine victory. Translated- Basical he says that if you take skill, tactical knowledge and all other deciding factors out of the fight the fella with the greater numbers will win. WELL DUH!!! LOL Here is another bit i think is relavant as well; "In such an aspect we grant, that the superiority in numbers is the most important factor in the result of a combat, only it must be sufficiently great to be a counterpoise to all the other co-operating circumstances". If you read the full post you will see that the "co-operating circumstances"are tactical and strategic know how, at a personal level and as a whole. Translated- He is saying that numbers will only win if you bring enough to overcome the tactical skill know how and other abilitys of your enemy. So in conclusion- Bragging about your ability to put together a multiple alliance version of the lemmings leap and claiming it as a your tactical stroke of genius is in fact a blinding example of your total lack of strategic or tactical knowledge. And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:04:00 - [346] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 22:13:30 Welp, someone missed the point so bad he flew straight into another galaxy. Edit: I'll clarify even though I'm positive you're taking an adverse position just because we happen to be on opposite sides of a war. Sticking newbies in ships and pointing them at the enemy is indeed how it starts. However, once they gain the skills to use more modules/ships we help them get into these ships. We teach them the best way to make use of the space we currently occupy through ratting, mining and other resources. Like I said before, those little tackling frigates who mindlessly zoom around trying to get webs on things now are our BS pilots and capital ship pilots later. We cultivate our newbies into proper EVE players. Everyone has to start somewhere and in the world of PvP, it is a tackling frigate. A lemming yes.
JenDen Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:11:00 - [347] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean gaining noobs using them like lemmings gathering new players who share the same motivation, although they dont have many skills yet, but will improve meanwhile. Speaking of a same thing, just the matter of what words you put on. So yeah, Goons were getting new people despite the popularity of BoB. What problem do you have with this tactics? I think its fair enough, isnt it? Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Point? Goons are actually succeeding at it. Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:28:00 - [348] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Bragging about your ability to put together a multiple alliance version of the lemmings leap and claiming it as a your tactical stroke of genius is in fact a blinding example of your total lack of strategic or tactical knowledge. And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Translation: Bob wins coz they are SO FRICKIN KEWL!!1111 Goons win coz they r teh lame blobbers!!!!1111 -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:35:00 - [349] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Bragging about your ability to put together a multiple alliance version of the lemmings leap and claiming it as a your tactical stroke of genius is in fact a blinding example of your total lack of strategic or tactical knowledge. And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Keep slurping and BoB may install you as pets when RAZOR kicks you out of your space
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:36:00 - [350] Originally by: JenDen And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Point? Goons are actually succeeding at it. And if you had read my previous posts you would see that i agree with you but it is not a eve skill or pvp tactic it is a resort you use when you have no tactics or pvp skills that can win on a equal or even if you have slightly superior in numbers.

Seredith GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:41:00 - [351] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Relaria Hossin Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 31/07/2007 19:34:16 Tactics are not limited to how well you fit and fly your personal ship. Tactics encompasses all aspects of warfare including the gathering and organizing of warm bodies to do the fighting. If you are being out-blobbed as you put it, there are many solutions including but not limited to recruiting more people to fight for your side. Goonswarm's "secret" to it's numbers is actually not a secret at all. The main source of pilots are people who have never even played EVE before. We recruit these new players, give them ships, move them to 0.0 space and begin teaching them how to be a useful pilot in PvP from their very first day as a member. The result of this method of recruitment is easily apparent if you take a look at how Goonswarm has started and how far it's members have come. We have people who were flying frigates in Syndicate who now field Dreadnoughts for our capital fleet. Throughout their entire time in EVE these players have been in the deep end of EVE, PvPing with players who have been playing for months and even years longer than they have. If you're being outnumbered by people who are recruiting more people to the game and training them from newbies, the obvious solution is to step up recruitment yourselves. I fully endorse people recruiting more newbies into EVE regardless what corporation is doing it because in the end the winner will be EVE itself. I agree that tactics cover more than fitting your ship or having loads of skill points but sorry bud gaining noobs using them like lemmings and calling it a tactic does not make you skilled in anything. Read the long winded post about it your buddy put up especialy this part il translate for ppl who are finding it a bit of a hard read. "If we strip the combat of all modifications which it may undergo according to its immediate purpose and the circumstances from which it proceeds, lastly if we set aside the valour of the troops, because that is a given quantity, then there remains only the bare conception of the combat, that is a combat without form, in which we distinguish nothing but the number of the combatants". This number will therefore determine victory. Translated- Basical he says that if you take skill, tactical knowledge and all other deciding factors out of the fight the fella with the greater numbers will win. WELL DUH!!! LOL Here is another bit i think is relavant as well; "In such an aspect we grant, that the superiority in numbers is the most important factor in the result of a combat, only it must be sufficiently great to be a counterpoise to all the other co-operating circumstances". If you read the full post you will see that the "co-operating circumstances"are tactical and strategic know how, at a personal level and as a whole. Translated- He is saying that numbers will only win if you bring enough to overcome the tactical skill know how and other abilitys of your enemy. So in conclusion- Bragging about your ability to put together a multiple alliance version of the lemmings leap and claiming it as a your tactical stroke of genius is in fact a blinding example of your total lack of strategic or tactical knowledge. And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. LALALALALA I HAVE MY FINGERS IN MY EARS GOONS ARE WRONG, WRONG WRONG WRONG. EL-WRONGO-MAXIMUS.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:16:00 - [352] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: JenDen And a fine example of your attempt to overwhelm BOB's skill and tactical knowledge by sheer numbers. Point? Goons are actually succeeding at it. And if you had read my previous posts you would see that i agree with you but it is not a eve skill or pvp tactic it is a resort you use when you have no tactics or pvp skills that can win on a equal or even if you have slightly superior in numbers. So we're exploiting because we're better at making friends than you? Damn High School must have been hard on you
JenDen Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2007.07.31 23:58:00 - [353] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean And if you had read my previous posts you would see that i agree with you but it is not a eve skill or pvp tactic it is a resort you use when you have no tactics or pvp skills that can win on a equal or even if you have slightly superior in numbers. Don't worry dude, I'm not trying to offend anyone here. I'm just saying that EvE is a game after all, and growing up a friendly community around yourself is JUST AS important as getting skills and experience. I did mention GoonFleet youtube videos earlier, not only they are awesome with fraps and music, but their "join us" text is well made too. You should check it out, I just love when art is involved behind the gameplay itself. Module/Rig stacknerfing explained
Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:00:00 - [354] When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem.
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:14:00 - [355] Originally by: Orangir When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem. Seriously, **** goons.
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 01:13:00 - [356] Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:16:57 Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:15:18 Originally by: Orangir When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem. M8 you ***** me up but i do agree with you goon aint good at making friends. I think BOB is just good at making enemies. Since when was crA ck a swear word and got auto censored?.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.01 02:16:00 - [357] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:16:57 Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:15:18 Originally by: Orangir When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem. M8 you ***** me up but i do agree with you goon aint good at making friends. I think BOB is just good at making enemies. Since when was crA ck a swear word and got auto censored?. FATAL has many stalwart and brave friends who have stuck with them through thick and thin. Like
Gentle Glide Silent Scream	Posted - 2007.08.01 02:56:00 - [358] Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Originally by: Gentle Glide Im a pirate, making me completly unbias'd in this. But check this out, your an idiot. Goonfleet while comprimised of noobs and up and coming players, has the skills incoming. There getting better. And your getting scared. Goonfleet would BBQ Fatal and i know it because my best friend IRL's charecter is in Fatal. Goonfleet is good at Eve. and they dont care about loosing ships, there morale is so high and that makes them even more dangerous because they wont just say "This sucks im leaving" like LV/V did (which if im not mistaken comprises most of your alliance?) get over it stop making yourself look closed minded and stupid. BoB has found its match GL to all involved, come through rancer How does anybody in eve get scared? its not like we realy die buddy as the blobs we now face show. And as far as them getting more skilled, nope again bud they are just getting more numbers and the state of the game suits their style at present with all the desynch. Goon runs the blob its that simple. But i agree its the numbers that count in eve not skill or know how so yes the numbers and their blob makes them "good at eve". And BOB did not meet its match it created it by beating every large alliance in the game for ages. They gathered up and the result is the huge blobs we now see. Now i do not blame goon or any of the others for doing this because its the natural order of any situation and if you check the history books its happened to every empire in history, Greek, Roman, British we all beat so many and made so many enemies we eventualy could'nt contain them and got pushed out by sheer force of numbers. But that eventuality is down to the skill of BOB and its allies by beating so many not the skill of the blobs they now face. If you cannot see that it is you who is the close minded idiot who looks stupid. Umm.. The current way to fight warfare in eve is... BLOBBING DING DING DING DING. And Goons have learned to be damned good at it. What in your closeminded head thinks that those little bastards cant learn any other form of warfare that eve throws at us. BoB will fall. New alliances will take there place, my brother is in a pet corp there are those who think the pets should rebel. For now its just whispers between friends but one day, who knows. With this many hell bent on taking them out i cant see a way to survive unless they want to survive. And i hate to say it but BoB pilots will jump ship to the next w1n alliance long before they give everything they have in defense of that alliance. And when RSF mows them down who knows, maybe they will come to the north and squash you.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:45:00 - [359] Originally by: Martin VanBuren Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:16:57 Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 01/08/2007 01:15:18 Originally by: Orangir When goons are better at making friends than you are, you've got a serious problem. M8 you ***** me up but i do agree with you goon aint good at making friends. I think BOB is just good at making enemies. Since when was crA ck a swear word and got auto censored?. FATAL has many stalwart and brave friends who have stuck with them through thick and thin. Like Well lotka volterra for one
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:52:00 - [360] Your posts are quite relaxing to read, pretty interesting, I find myself believing you...wait.... Are you Alistair Cambell? ------------



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