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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:20:00 -
[121]
Originally by: PirateShampoo It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine.
What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end.
I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken.
Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding.
I am of course just a grunt, and these opinions may not represent everyone in LV. But I can tell you it certainly represents the feelings of my LV friends.
I agree about the morale effects of that night. I think the JV1V lagfest and that bug in don't-remember-which system that reseted the sovereignty and allowed GoonSwarm to take over the system almost overnight, sped up LV's demise by at least 6 weeks... ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:22:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Ki An No alliance can sustain a war when you lose 5-10 ships for every enemy you take down. Sooner or later you either have to improve that ratio, or you will go bankrupt.
/Ki
But FIX is still alive.
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:25:00 -
[123]
Originally by: PirateShampoo It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine.
What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end.
I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken.
Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding.
I am of course just a grunt, and these opinions may not represent everyone in LV. But I can tell you it certainly represents the feelings of my LV friends.
So, you blame CCP for the swift collapse of LV. I got news for you...you're fighting the same foes and last I checked CCP still operates the servers, so what makes you think this will be any different this time around? What makes you think that the same pilots that lost the will to fight after one event will not run at the first sign of failure by BoB?
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Maksiim
Doom and Gloom
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:34:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Maksiim on 26/07/2007 22:33:52
Removing one's self from one's arse would be a start James.....
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LeCiD
Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:37:00 -
[125]
If JV1V battle lowered LV morale, FT- battle lowered RSF morale but just for a while. RSF and the southern coalition in general is founded by alliance who fought for many months. That s the reason why BoB didn t roll on us like they did on ASCN for example. BoB drawback but isn t dead yet. Now we fight and the future will tell us the story we just don t know the end ( happy or not)
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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:40:00 -
[126]
Another interesting read. Tbh I can't speak for the present but the past was diffrent. When I was in BOB we crushed every single fleet we met. However things change and alot of new people have joined bob...
And yes, they are ofc beatable like everyone else. However they smarter than the most.
Interesting read, alot of things in your posts that makes one wonder. Oh well, it's only a game. We'll see what happens.
Hybrid Syndicate are recruiting experienced pvpers. Channel HSY for info. |
Ki An
Gallente KDM Corp Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:43:00 -
[127]
Originally by: NATMav But FIX is still alive.
I know you're trying to flame, but you should find another angle. Sure, our k/d ratio is nowhere near BoB's, but it's leagues better than the goons'.
/Ki
Remember kids: Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"! |
PirateShampoo
Minmatar UK Corp FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:45:00 -
[128]
Last I checked we are fighting Razor, MM, Tri, Hydra and lots of other smaller alliances. I certainly have alot of respect for MM, Tri and to a degree razor.
I would not bet on any outcome at this stage, but I find it unlikely that JV1V will ever happen again for the following reasons:
CCP did learn from JV1V, this was seen in F-T, we also learnt from J1V1 we won't be holing up in a dead end system to protect it again and finally while our opponents are very worthy they don't blob the same way goons do (I like to think this is because the alliances we are now fighting are far more honorable and respect worthy then the goons (not talking about RED/TCF as they in a entirely different class these days).
Of course these discussions are fairly pointless. Time as always will tell, as much any many people can pretend to predict the future or outcome of any battle it is and always has been so much horse***.
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Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 22:49:00 -
[129]
Another good read, keep it up.
Originally by: Khavi Vetali
Oh don't worry, the goons are just as suicidal with their battleships as they are with their frigates.
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Kenion
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:03:00 -
[130]
A nice read but could you leave out the GF thingie next time? It just bores me.
---------------------------------------------- Fight BoB because all women love the strong who falls, but also the weak that stands.
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Astarte Nosferatu
We Know Derek Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:06:00 -
[131]
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: Ki An No alliance can sustain a war when you lose 5-10 ships for every enemy you take down. Sooner or later you either have to improve that ratio, or you will go bankrupt.
/Ki
But FIX is still alive.
Lol, so true. I don't think a single FIX corp left during the five month war between FIX and IRON (and the dozen or so alliances that teamed up later on).
Originally by: Dianabolic I was sworn to absolute secrecy by CCP
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CYVOK
Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:09:00 -
[132]
Another good read!
You forgot to mention BoB's policy of placing alts in pet alliances or acquiring (unknown to others) the canceled accounts/characters of influential players already their in. They then use these alts to directly influence the pets to blindly believe in how awesome it is to be a BoB pet.
I can also attest to the ability of many of BoB's PvPers (and the MC's for that mater) A great many are outstanding PvPers. Just look at their Corp history, a great many of their members received their "training" from CLS, Xetic and ASCN Corps that have been fighting since day 1 in EvE. I share your opinion, many of them "joined the enemy" because they were sick of having to "work" to win. To be fair however, some of them did join because they wanted pure PvP without all the ôEmpire Buildingö care-bears enjoy, BoB gave it to them. Also, there are several I still have great respect for.
Looking forward to part III
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TARREX
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:15:00 -
[133]
Hellooooo
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Scarcus
Caldari Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:19:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Vladimir Titov Edited by: Vladimir Titov on 26/07/2007 17:51:18 I got in trouble last time I posted with my main (in the GBC) so this time this is self-admittedly an alt.
I wanted to address what you said about how PvP'ers are recruited from among BoB's targets. You really hit on a point I often spent a long time thinking about. But I don't agree with regards to saying they are riding cotails of others.
The thing is, when you are a vet who has been playing EvE since launch, you really have very few options. I spent most of my 4+ years in EvE fighting against Evolution or its allies and interests. First it was FA/SA, then ATUK, then ATUK's pets and the 5 and so on. So for me after so many battles there is no aura of invincibility or feeling that fighting them is futile. They are just people, and when someone like me is always thinking several steps ahead in a fight, more often than not I was able to not let them get the best of me. It takes a lot of control, patience and determination to fight these people and to know when to strike. I cannot emphasis patience enough.
Whenever it was a war of wills, my will was something that could never be broken. If ATUK did not want to show its hand and was waiting for my fleet to camp the gate so they could dictate the fight, I would simply keep my fleet in an SS and deny them that pleasure, for as long as it took.
The way I feel about BoB is very clear, but I also came to a realization that this was a game, and I was tired constantly offering guidance to people with less experience than me or did not approach EvE with the same competitive edge as me. Its impossible to win a battle of wills when the people you are with break down easy. It wears you down. Yet at the same time I didn't want to join BoB because it is those who go against BoB that stand out in EvE. For better or worse, they are the people that are remembered. But like I said, your options are limited. I suppose if I could speak russian I would have joined RA, but I don't. Instead I created this alt with this name to honor their achievements in EvE.
Joining BoB or the GBC is not about taking the easy road or winning all the time. Its about joining people who have the same hunger as you, who will analyze a fight after its done instead of saying "oh well its just a game and that was fun". You want people who will be there in battleships after they lose their dreads, in cruisers after they lose their battleships...and so on. Its not only about pvp though. You want to be able to go to bed at night and not worry about a POS's fuel level. The worst feeling possible is feeling when the weight of the world is on your shoulders, that if you don't log in certain things wont get done. Finally you want to fly with people that don't know the meaning of impossible. If item xyz needs to be in system abc in the next day, they will treat the same way you do: find a way to get it done. And to top it all, I wanted leadership that is going to make the best use of my peristence and tenacity, not leadership that will demand 1/5th of what I can really do.
And so the choices become really slim, and before I knew it, I found myself in a situation I didn't think I would. I am not riding their cotails, they are riding mine.
Excellent well-thought out post, sir. It was so good, I completely overlooked the spelling errors, etc. :) Once NOL has been purged with cleansing fire, and all the vassals are put to the sword, I'm sure we'll have a lovely little cold war, your bloc and ours.
Originally by: KIATolon Chowdown, if you use your t |
Orree
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:23:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Morris Falter Edited by: Morris Falter on 26/07/2007 16:20:37 Another installment!
Edit: It was all going well, till you started discussing your girlfriend. Buy her some flowers chap, she deserves them.
Disagree. I actually plan to use his arguments against my wife next time we discuss EVE.
"How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli |
joshua cane
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:30:00 -
[136]
nice read
time will tell
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munchy
Alcatraz Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:34:00 -
[137]
wether right or wrong, these are some pretty well thought out and intelligent posts imo, and give a very interesting insight into what could be going on inside bob, keep on writing dude. ---
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Endeva
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:36:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
Originally by: Endeva
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn ... The problem of Bob is they never experience a figth vs full pvp alliances.
so you want to say here that all those fights before vs iron/g d2 ermm dont know all the names but there are lots of other good pvp allaince. i liked g:P before and their fleet of tempests.p - that they are all carebers and now we met truly PVP oriented allince know as TCF
Notice the 's' in what I said.
okey so allainces tcf ragoons and other.but what with the allainces we fight before? you said we never fought with pvp oriented allaince till now.
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duckmonster
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.26 23:54:00 -
[139]
Edited by: duckmonster on 26/07/2007 23:54:48
Originally by: fire 59 edit: fire 59's sig
You've been in eve how long now? And you STILL dont get the punchline. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected][orange] with a link to your signature (file |
Sorja
E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:10:00 -
[140]
Not all BoB corps are only there to win, some actually go for it for the sake of it. I'm thinking mainly about BNC here, but it's a whole other story when fighting Evol.
To be honest, most EVE pilots/corps/alliances want to win, which is plain silly since you can only win or lose pixels. Not everybody likes to Leeroy (which I love ) and fleet commanders often cut hairs before engaging because they don't want to take the blame of a loss.
That's why I wish Goons existed when I started playing, they fit my playstyle: fun, and only fun, flush the ego! ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not. |
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Taratai Enko
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:17:00 -
[141]
epa epa!
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Murukan
Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:23:00 -
[142]
Itz soz clear dat if bob wantz to winz dey ned moar pylons!
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Misfitsa
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:26:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Kashre Just my 2 cents, but I think someone needs to go back to propaganda school and consider making it accessible to the people you're tying to convince.
Yes, leave out the girlfriend part. 99% of the Eve-O community cannot relate to that stuff in any way.
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DTee
The Huns
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:38:00 -
[144]
Edited by: DTee on 27/07/2007 00:43:48 I can funnily enough say that I liked reading that post.
The bond in BoB isn't friendship because there is nothing personal about BoB (apart from the core). Its about pride rather then the hours of man power you spent building that POS. Instead its about the isk your pet corps put down. So why should you stay in BoB if you keep loosing?
I cannot say that BoB aren't good or their pvpers dont have skill. The question comes down to morale.
Definately a different and valid point of view. Even thought slightly different fromt he ones voiced in the past.
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Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:40:00 -
[145]
Originally by: CYVOK Another good read!
You forgot to mention BoB's policy of placing alts in pet alliances or acquiring (unknown to others) the canceled accounts/characters of influential players already their in. They then use these alts to directly influence the pets to blindly believe in how awesome it is to be a BoB pet.
I can also attest to the ability of many of BoB's PvPers (and the MC's for that mater) A great many are outstanding PvPers. Just look at their Corp history, a great many of their members received their "training" from CLS, Xetic and ASCN Corps that have been fighting since day 1 in EvE. I share your opinion, many of them "joined the enemy" because they were sick of having to "work" to win. To be fair however, some of them did join because they wanted pure PvP without all the ôEmpire Buildingö care-bears enjoy, BoB gave it to them. Also, there are several I still have great respect for.
Looking forward to part III
NO FFS they joined bob because YOU tought them to worship the freakin bobbits since day one of ascn.
"Oh bob is so uber lets not go **** them off"
"Hey bob need us to camp ec- for a week comon my little peons go stare at bubbles"
You are a good guy cyvok but you need to wake the fuxx up alredy.
James 315: another junk post made up of 50% stating the obvious and 50% "omg ascn wasnt that bad afterall". Listen to ur gf and stop posting.
- Gob
Stealth bombers work! |
Interval
Grenadiers
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:52:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Originally by: CYVOK Another good read!
You forgot to mention BoB's policy of placing alts in pet alliances or acquiring (unknown to others) the canceled accounts/characters of influential players already their in. They then use these alts to directly influence the pets to blindly believe in how awesome it is to be a BoB pet.
I can also attest to the ability of many of BoB's PvPers (and the MC's for that mater) A great many are outstanding PvPers. Just look at their Corp history, a great many of their members received their "training" from CLS, Xetic and ASCN Corps that have been fighting since day 1 in EvE. I share your opinion, many of them "joined the enemy" because they were sick of having to "work" to win. To be fair however, some of them did join because they wanted pure PvP without all the ôEmpire Buildingö care-bears enjoy, BoB gave it to them. Also, there are several I still have great respect for.
Looking forward to part III
NO FFS they joined bob because YOU tought them to worship the freakin bobbits since day one of ascn.
"Oh bob is so uber lets not go **** them off"
"Hey bob need us to camp ec- for a week comon my little peons go stare at bubbles"
You are a good guy cyvok but you need to wake the fuxx up alredy.
James 315: another junk post made up of 50% stating the obvious and 50% "omg ascn wasnt that bad afterall". Listen to ur gf and stop posting.
- Gob
When Cyvok posted I wondered who would be the first to tear into him and I made a mental bet that it would be you Gob.
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:58:00 -
[147]
The Girlfriend bit made me laugh, actually.
Originally by: Benglada And whos going to tackle for them? Jesus?
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Rthor
Gallente Smugglers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:03:00 -
[148]
Originally by: James 315
I communicated that my girlfriend's arguments suffered from a number of fundamental flaws. First, the question of whether she or Eve is more important is irrelevant, since the two are not in conflict. Second, the question assumes an all-or-nothing approach that also ignores decreasing marginal utility. For example, on an absolute scale, food is more important than music, but would we force all the world's musicians to become farmers? Of course not. Likewise, terminating James 315 to spend more time with my girlfriend would be suboptimal. Third, and perhaps most importantly, it was a question of timing, not of priorities. She will be there the next day, but those BoB POSes might not be. (As it turned out, the BoB POSes did get popped.)
I am not worthy... This is probably the best paragraph ever written on these forums.
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EL TITAN
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:13:00 -
[149]
Im not one that posts much for a variety of reasons.
Anyways I just wanted to thank James for taking time to make such a long post about my alliance. In a way I am touched that someone out-there spends a lot of time thinking about what my alliance mates and I do when playing the game. I cant say I agree with many of your points though :o _________________________________________________ <3 hi |
Zeta Strike
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:20:00 -
[150]
Originally by: PirateShampoo What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end.
I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken.
Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding.
By the time JV1V happened, BoB had entered the war on LV's side hadn't it? While LV decided that fighting RSF was "impossible" and disbanded, BoB proceeded to take back the space LV had lost, proving that fighting against RSF was indeed possible, and with less numbers than BoB+LV combined possessed.
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