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ArcticFox
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:34:00 -
[151]
Quote: I don't want this to turn into another long post.
Considering that you were on the fifth full post by the time you got to this line, it's pretty safe to say you failed on that count.
Honestly, this started out decent enough, but then you spent a page and a half rambling about your girlfriend and inundating us with examples of your wonderful communication. This whole section simply felt like you were meandering too far off the main topic, and even though you were trying to use it to make a point, I don't think the point came across very strongly.
Frankly pretty dissapointed by the relative quality of this post as compared to the last one. -------------------------- There is no +6 sword of WTFPWN in Eve. |
ArcticFox
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.27 01:38:00 -
[152]
Edited by: ArcticFox on 27/07/2007 01:38:48
Originally by: Zeta Strike
Originally by: PirateShampoo What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end.
I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken.
Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding.
By the time JV1V happened, BoB had entered the war on LV's side hadn't it? While LV decided that fighting RSF was "impossible" and disbanded, BoB proceeded to take back the space LV had lost, proving that fighting against RSF was indeed possible, and with less numbers than BoB+LV combined possessed.
There hasn't been a battle like JV1V since then. Nothing BoB has faced can be compared to it. JV1V was the most effective deployment of the mobile lag-bomb that is Goonswarm in history, and is now impossible to reproduce due to caps on the number of pilots that may enter a system.
Oh yeah, and BoB actually didn't start taking back old LV space for quite some time after the collapse of LV. I recall for a while there the Coalition was pretty convinced it was on the way into Delve, not the other way around. -------------------------- There is no +6 sword of WTFPWN in Eve. |
The Beatnuts
UA Industry Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:20:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Endeva but what with the allainces we fight before? you said we never fought with pvp oriented allaince till now.
Now please, I'm just asking I can't exactly remember how the facts went and don't want to bring back old memories.
I remember BOB liking to fight [G].
Did [G] disband? or got disolved by BOB?
Then again, I'm totaly drunk, trying to post well and would like to be informed.
Don't speak english - f1, f2, f3
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:26:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: NATMav But FIX is still alive.
I know you're trying to flame, but you should find another angle. Sure, our k/d ratio is nowhere near BoB's, but it's leagues better than the goons'.
/Ki
It was more of a back-handed compliment TBH. FIX has put up some pretty poor numbers, but always comes back to fight and hasn't rolled over yet. That disproves the whole 1:5 ratio is not sustainable theory.
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:28:00 -
[155]
Originally by: PirateShampoo Edited by: PirateShampoo on 26/07/2007 23:06:35 Edited by: PirateShampoo on 26/07/2007 22:46:43 Edited by: PirateShampoo on 26/07/2007 22:45:50
Originally by: NATMav
Originally by: PirateShampoo It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine.
What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end.
I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken.
Sure RSF had a large hand in our death, however I think you will find that the majority of LV blame CCP and not RSF for their loss of morale and subsequent disbanding.
I am of course just a grunt, and these opinions may not represent everyone in LV. But I can tell you it certainly represents the feelings of my LV friends.
So, you blame CCP for the swift collapse of LV. I got news for you...you're fighting the same foes and last I checked CCP still operates the servers, so what makes you think this will be any different this time around? What makes you think that the same pilots that lost the will to fight after one event will not run at the first sign of failure by BoB?
Last I checked we are fighting Razor, MM, Tri, Hydra and lots of other smaller alliances. I certainly have alot of respect for MM, Tri and to a degree razor.
I would not bet on any outcome at this stage, but I find it unlikely that JV1V will ever happen again for the following reasons:
CCP did learn from JV1V, this was seen in F-T, we also learnt from J1V1 we won't be holing up in a dead end system to protect it again and finally while our opponents are very worthy they don't blob the same way goons do (I like to think this is because the alliances we are now fighting are far more honorable and respect worthy then the goons (not talking about RED/TCF as they in a entirely different class these days).
Edit: In addition our foes share the timezone, I can't tell you what a boon this is. It's very difficult fighting wars with different timezones, as there is little action. The hostile just attack your systems in their timezone and you spend your time repping poses in your timezone, which as many people will attest sucks. Win or Lose I prefer to actually have a battle and still be able to get up for work the next morning.
Of course these discussions are fairly pointless. Time as always will tell, as much any many people can pretend to predict the future or outcome of any battle or war it is and always has been so much horse***.
Sorry, I should have paid better attention to your corp ticker. I replied thinking you were one of the ones that ran to join BoB for easy mode. However, we will probably see soon the resolve of the new northern land-grabbers, so for your sake, I hope you are right.
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Kvarium Ki
Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.27 02:34:00 -
[156]
I joined a corp in Goonswarm 2 days ago. Let me say that every pre-conceived notion I had about the Goons has been utterly shattered.
I don't know if they will find this flattering or not but the Goons are VERY well organized and are definatly not all suicidale maniacs flying t1 frigates. The fleet commanders have been very good and the discipline on team speak is also very good.
If my assumptions about the Goons where wrong it's safe to say that my assumptions about BoB are also probably wrong. That doesn't rellay matter to me, I just like shooting BoB, it's very rewarding playing against those everyone consider to be the best. But that's an assumption isn't it?
KK.
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Ponderous Thunderstroke
Republic War Machine Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.27 03:26:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Vladimir Titov
Joining BoB or the GBC is not about taking the easy road or winning all the time. Its about joining people who have the same hunger as you, who will analyze a fight after its done instead of saying "oh well its just a game and that was fun". You want people who will be there in battleships after they lose their dreads, in cruisers after they lose their battleships...and so on. Its not only about pvp though. You want to be able to go to bed at night and not worry about a POS's fuel level. The worst feeling possible is feeling when the weight of the world is on your shoulders, that if you don't log in certain things wont get done. Finally you want to fly with people that don't know the meaning of impossible. If item xyz needs to be in system abc in the next day, they will treat the same way you do: find a way to get it done. And to top it all, I wanted leadership that is going to make the best use of my peristence and tenacity, not leadership that will demand 1/5th of what I can really do.
Boy did you screw up then. Everything you're describing means you should have joined Goonswarm. Bad choices, FTL.
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Charles Case
Caldari Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.27 03:30:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Zeta Strike
By the time JV1V happened, BoB had entered the war on LV's side hadn't it? While LV decided that fighting RSF was "impossible" and disbanded, BoB proceeded to take back the space LV had lost, proving that fighting against RSF was indeed possible, and with less numbers than BoB+LV combined possessed.
and a few more titans and pilots that knew how to use them to their full completeley unbalanced potential. Your signature has been deemed inappropriate. If you have any questions about this please Mail the Mods be sure to include a link to your signature. -Darth Patches |
Gentle Glide
kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.07.27 03:54:00 -
[159]
QFT!
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.27 04:39:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 27/07/2007 04:43:24
Originally by: PirateShampoo It's clear James is getting his info from COAD. As anyone in LV knew, there was no way that LV was running out of ISK. Some where poor but the alliance cash wise was fine.
The players are the ones that fight, not the alliance. You should have been more worried about the individual pilot's wallet than building another titan for the people that ended up jumping ship when things looked their worst. When some of your membership can't even afford to replace interceptors, you're doing something very wrong.
Quote: What broke LV's morale was a single event which is well published. JV1V taught us that a war against RSF was impossible. The numbers goons where able to field and the skill and planning of Red/TCF made the war difficult from the start to the end.
You were broken way before this, back when the DG- dreads jumped you. Up at the end, Omist had already abandonded and your alliance was more concerned about moving to stain than trying to hold out.
Quote: I doubt there are many alliances who can maintain their morale while your entire PVP force is looking at a character loading screen for 5 hours solid, unable to do anything while your Titan is destroyed and your capital system taken.
Blaming the fall of an entire alliance on one night of crappy servers is a cop-out. Your leadership all disppeared (rather coincidentally) at the same time, and you were left to fend for yourself. You have no one to blame but them.
Originally by: ArcticFox There hasn't been a battle like JV1V since then. Nothing BoB has faced can be compared to it. JV1V was the most effective deployment of the mobile lag-bomb that is Goonswarm in history, and is now impossible to reproduce due to caps on the number of pilots that may enter a system.
There were a ton of other alliances represented there, I doubt goonswarm made up even half. If you guys had managed to save the towers, you wouldn't even be mentioning JV1V as anything but a "heroic stand despite goonswarm's bookmark bombs". Just because we had outpoliticed you doesn't mean we cheated or tried crashing the servers or any of that other non-sense you try and use to explain poor leadership and planning.
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Lee Bian
Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.27 05:37:00 -
[161]
i'm thinking that if i post here maybe i will create enough lag to make goonswarm win
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Martin VanBuren
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.27 06:42:00 -
[162]
Originally by: PirateShampoo
CCP did learn from JV1V, this was seen in F-T, we also learnt from J1V1 we won't be holing up in a dead end system to protect it again and finally while our opponents are very worthy they don't blob the same way goons do (I like to think this is because the alliances we are now fighting are far more honorable and respect worthy then the goons (not talking about RED/TCF as they in a entirely different class these days).
Okay guys x up now for the titan killing gang!
Oh dang that's alot of people who want to come along, sorry but half of you are going to stay behind. Don't want people to think we're dishonorable lag-bombers now do we.
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Caldari Citizen 6280
Various Disease
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Posted - 2007.07.27 07:30:00 -
[163]
TL;DR --- Secret Forum Alt Secret Forum Alt They've given you a number because your name was offensive. |
cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.27 09:02:00 -
[164]
I still think James is spot on about this point: an alliance can forever last through hardship if the majority of its members perceive that they can not get a similar (or better) playing experience in any other alliance. In other words, their internal loyalty and interest in the game means they will never stop playing Eve, and they will never leave their alliance, granting that alliance a permanent power base.
This is true of Goonswarm and Red Alliance: the majority of players in these two alliances probably don't think they'll have nearly as much fun anywhere else, so they choose not to leave. This grants those alliances lasting strength.
In the case of D2, however, the majority of members probably thought they could have more fun elsewhere as soon as they realized there were tough times ahead. Placed in a situation similar to the MC offensive against the north, Goonswarm and Red Alliance would have survived and recovered due to their internal loyalties. In fact, I believe we're seeing Razor Alliance doing exactly that.
The question now is: does the Band of Brothers have similar internal loyalties like RedSwarm? Or are they like D2, an alliance that rises to power, but eventually falls apart when the going gets tough. Only time will really tell, and I do not pretend to know the answer.
I'm pretty much rephrasing what James said though. ---
Grismar.net |
Drongen
Caldari Eve Liberation Force Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.27 09:09:00 -
[165]
Yet another great post and i rly enjoyed reading it, u sir have some great writing skills. No comments about if anything is true or not since I'm still trying to catch up with the happenings in the north and south but this surely shred some light :).
----- Nothing to see here, move along. |
The Anointed
Caldari KR0M The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.07.27 09:45:00 -
[166]
Regardless of accuracy, I must admit that your posts are quite pleasant to read.
Are you a fan of R.Dawkins perhaps?
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Pehova Mindtriq
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.07.27 10:01:00 -
[167]
Originally by: The Beatnuts
Originally by: Endeva but what with the allainces we fight before? you said we never fought with pvp oriented allaince till now.
Now please, I'm just asking I can't exactly remember how the facts went and don't want to bring back old memories.
I remember BOB liking to fight [G].
Did [G] disband? or got disolved by BOB?
Then again, I'm totaly drunk, trying to post well and would like to be informed.
well bob brought a big blob to ec-p with ASCN and The 5 showing that they weren't in for the good fights, just victory(through blobbing i might add). [G] didn't want to do the whole blob warfare thing and disbanded. Oh and that event might had to do something with that nobody from the north cared to help ASCN later on.
Celestial Apocalypse Recruitment |
Le Bon
Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.27 10:04:00 -
[168]
I complimented you on your first post as some of the information was relatively correct for an outsiders point of view.
This post is built on pure paranoid thoughts which holds hardly close to 0 truth and let me say it, biast opinion. =
Ninja Smack Alt |
Fendragun
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.27 10:51:00 -
[169]
Originally by: James 315
It goes further still. When ATUK was incorporated into BoB as the DICE (Destructive Influence) corporation, it was largely seen as an attempt to join the one big remaining PvP powerhouse into BoB, creating an alliance with no real competitors remaining in Eve. But perhaps in part because of the motivation, DICE was not respected as "fully BoB". This is why even today, despite all of DICE's efforts to the contrary, DICE is sometimes referred to as "BoB Lite". (If DICE is "BoB Lite", does that make Shinra "BoB Free"?)
In a less concentrated but more pervasive scale than the DICE assimilation, there is the BoB policy of drafting PvP'ers from their targets. This ensures that even those skilled PvP'ers who remain in Eve will not recollect in other alliances to pose BoB future risk. Often these defections occur even while the war between BoB and its target still rages. For an alliance that claims to want only "good fights", we can see how BoB goes to great lengths to avoid fighting anyone--even individual pilots!--who could offer a good fight.
Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB.
The main reason for us doing this was that I had left alot of ships in Nol from my FA days and I wanted them back. Molle said the price was the souls of all my members. It was the easiest decision in my life.
Oh and if you didnt know our slogan from ATUK its the following:
Evolution will teach you over millions of years. ATUK will school you now!
EX-DICE CEO EX-ATUK Director EX-MACE CEO EX-Xanadu Officer |
KIATolon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.27 11:16:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Fendragun
Just wanted to comment on this section. I was the person that took ATUK to Dice and into BOB.
Terrible decision, and I imagine it will get undone soon. Took a bunch of fine pvpers and imo one of the best corps in the game and turn them into cannon fodder and gofers for bob.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 11:19:00 -
[171]
Originally by: TWD
Originally by: James 315 ... As observed by such noted CAOD posters as DigitalCommunist and James 315 ...
You're not. All I see is a bitter ex-ASCN pilot trying to spin history to make the disbanding of the alliance he was part of less painful.
Must be hard to walk around with such a big ego on your head. ;)
Having been in a few alliances so far - 6 i think in a period of 1yr with most of them dead now or close to, I can say you are pretty spot on with the moral thing when it comes to them. Considering how BoB has been recruiting like crazy - because they just like RAGOON are playing this game to win it, it would be illogical to think that they wouldn't absorb any rotten apples - especially considering the fact that bob pilots have an ego the size of a MWD-ing mothership. Not sure if this spells "super critical danger" but it is surely a problem. However if they don't get more numbers they are in danger of being overrun, so this move of mass recruiting is deffinitely a necessity.
Caldari are the plague of EVE, little whiners that must be cleansed from TQ. |
Zataaki
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Posted - 2007.07.27 11:39:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Zataaki on 27/07/2007 11:40:02 The biggest change in the tide of this war occurred when bob was shown how good they really are without their supercapitals on godmode.
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Herring
Pimpology Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 11:42:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Kaaii
Sooommmeeeooonneee didn't read my Guiiiide.....
3) Yetanotherknowitall?
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Fitz Chivalry
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 11:51:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Fitz Chivalry on 27/07/2007 11:52:48 I still think that although the average quality level has undeniably dipped, BoB are still the best enemy out there and IMO the only people really worth fighting, as they will fight and will commit numbers, will teach you a thing or two and are engaged in 0.0 sov wars, as opposed to just roaming about in l333t gank teams going after soft targets like most of the "alternatives" to BoB out there for the bored pvper. .
edit: removed some semi-flame stuff for the sake of the poor overworked mods
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jernej
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.27 11:56:00 -
[175]
First of all I'd like to say that propaganda should be shorter, 2 posts max. Secondly the the OP, you are taking the game way too seriously.
It's really not necessary to write essays about things that are so simple. BoB is a pvp oriented alliance. It was decided by the leadership that we want to become an empire, that we need a couple more regions for DICE or we just want to kill some **** and also enjoy the POSwar aspects of the game. I don't know, I'm not part of the BoB leadership.
Now, if we decide that we had enough, get blobbed to hell or CCP starts to nerff us every 3 months instead of every 6 months... There will always be our Blood friens waiting for us in Delve. They let us shoot them and dock at the same time, true sportsmen!
cheers
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Ascoyne Dascoyne
Amarr Kind Hearts and Coronets
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Posted - 2007.07.27 12:26:00 -
[176]
You need a radio show
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Angelus X
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.27 13:47:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu One of the best series in months on CAOD. There's surprisingly much truth in the James 315 posts threads.
Much? Not Much?
Originally by: Malachon Draco Highly interesting and entertaining read. Not sure if its all true, but well-wrought arguments brought in an entertaining read always make for good reading.
And that pretty much sums it up doesn't it. The majority of readers know that James 315 is not unbiased, nor do his posts contain 100% facts, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for most people either?
While some would say most of the stuff he says is true, there are endless random 'facts' dropped into his post all over the place that just stink of exaggeration or plain crap, e.g. BoB not posting lossmails?? and the quite blatent not understanding the 'bob lite' joke, just two of many.
So meh, enjoy the tabloid style uber length posts if they entertain you, it's not like anyone from BoB could say anything to convince you otherwise.
Foxor : targets are lewt, just not yet in can form Hi |
Donna Maria
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.27 14:11:00 -
[178]
Just seems like you not only Fail at Eve, but you Fail at having a girlfriend.
Can I have your stuff? (is she cute?)
Im the girl momma warned you about..
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Grimm Tbone
Caldari Spacelane Petrol
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Posted - 2007.07.27 14:12:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Angelus X
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu One of the best series in months on CAOD. There's surprisingly much truth in the James 315 posts threads.
Much? Not Much?
Originally by: Malachon Draco Highly interesting and entertaining read. Not sure if its all true, but well-wrought arguments brought in an entertaining read always make for good reading.
And that pretty much sums it up doesn't it. The majority of readers know that James 315 is not unbiased, nor do his posts contain 100% facts, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for most people either?
While some would say most of the stuff he says is true, there are endless random 'facts' dropped into his post all over the place that just stink of exaggeration or plain crap, e.g. BoB not posting lossmails?? and the quite blatent not understanding the 'bob lite' joke, just two of many.
So meh, enjoy the tabloid style uber length posts if they entertain you, it's not like anyone from BoB could say anything to convince you otherwise.
I have to ask, as one of those people who has never been involved in this whole afair. why do even you, a passionate BoB member think that anyone from BoB couldn't say anything to convince us otherwise? Do you have that little faith in your leaders, or is the truth self evident?
That to me says "we are being exposed, and everyone hates us because we haxed so no matter what spin we put on this everyone will see we are full of bulldrek."
I mean, if you had truth on your side, why is it that someone like me, who has no stake or side in this thing, can see both arguments and still see that BoB is in fact very much reliant on smoke and mirrors and the blood of slaves for their superiority. Not saying that is a bad strat, just that its a pretty obvious one. Look at the influence map, vs That other dudes map. what he calls "BOB" space, is really only like 40% bob. the rest is held by serfs.
I don't even dignify them by calling them pets. people care about their pets. they love them and would never do anything to hurt them. Most of all they wouldn't use them as shields. Maybe Ron Mexico would. And nobody ever has charged their pets rent.
May you live in interesting times. |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.07.27 14:16:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Angelus X
So meh, enjoy the tabloid style uber length posts if they entertain you, it's not like anyone from BoB could say anything to convince you otherwise.
Are you getting Emo on us Angelus?
------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
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