Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1512
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
we alpha triage carriers, deal with it |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1512
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:24:00 -
[62] - Quote
i have a better idea
bring more friends
lmao |
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:30:00 -
[63] - Quote
The problem as I see it is not alpha by itself, but the ability to completely destroy an opponents ship before they can react with a counter of any form.
This occurs when many alpha ships all fire at one opponent.
I think the solution to this is to add a new module: the Remote Resist Booster. This module would be able to remotely boost the armor or shield resists of the target ship. This would allow the fleet being attacked to respond while being locked and boost the resists of the attacked ship so that it could withstand the volley.
Combining this with an increased lock time for larger fleets perhaps could maybe work?
Obviously passive targetting would have to be looked at - the fleet being alpha'd would need to be aware who was being locked somehow and have time to react.
Now I know this would need careful balancing so it wasn't overpowered, but I think it would add a new interesting dimension to the game.
Flame on. |
Alara IonStorm
1397
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:wn a much larger one simply by using small 1 to 5 man gangs all over the place with good pilots. I have been on the receiving end of this tactic around the fall of the NC. While they never got me a lot of people who didn't pay attention bought it.
Bombers everywhere, small Nano Gangs always passing through. I was afraid to move systems often enough without a Cloak. The 500 Man Maelstrom Blobs were an inconvenience. These Gangs were the the Bane of the Alliance.
A war of attrition is how you break an Alliances spirit. 500 Man Blobs that appear at a scheduled time with every pilot who X'd up a while ago to pop a cheap POS that I had a few Ships in barely tickled in the long run.
They are the reason members bled off, they are the reason Gang attendance by the not so PvP motivated that make up 80% of the Blob started to drop as people left. They are the reason I felt trapped in my own Sov.
They are the reason Wars are lost.
|
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1274
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
Andski wrote:i have a better idea
bring more friends
lmao
sure it works, but in the end its same old boring stuff all over and over again.. nothing new to be gained.. just the same old grind stuff..
Who really enjoys it ? Apart of me because i am incompetent. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1274
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:35:00 -
[66] - Quote
ASadOldGit wrote:Ammzi wrote:Stacking penalties on weapon fire.
Someone fires 100 missiles on one target - and all the missiles survive - lol wut? The larger the ship - the more ships can shoot it. The smaller the ship - the less ships can shoot it.
Break off fleets into real squads and wings. With REAL squad commanders and wing commanders. Yes, but you'd also need new FC tools to help them manage multiple targets and multiple squads, which increases the complexity of the project, although I'm sure most FC's would like some better tools to do their job, such as a multi-tiered approach e.g. FC multi-selects a bunch of targets and drags them over a squad commander and leaves it up to that SC to prioritise targets; at a higher level, someone would drag one fleet over a destination, and send others to another destination, with a strategic point of view. (sorry for the details in a non-F&I thread, but +1 for getting the devs to look into the blob issue.) Although I haven't experienced it yet, hands up all those who actually enjoy being blobbed, with a 10 or 100 to one ratio, knowing you can never win, week after week after week. This is a game, not a simulator - it's supposed to be enjoyable (which is not against the idea that it can still be harsh and challenging).
thats the actual point.. to not needing FCs and not be dependable on them so much.. Everyone in their right minds will make decision and will work effectively in small squad will know what to do and when to do it. Ultimately creating large playerbase of actual combat pilots .. And that even in 2500 blues on local .. and 2200 reds.. there will be fights .. it could be interesting etc. Well technical difficulties aside.. |
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
462
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:49:00 -
[67] - Quote
You got blobbed, lost your shiny ship, and come to the EVE-O forums to whine about it.
|
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1274
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:50:00 -
[68] - Quote
Zagam wrote:You got blobbed, lost your shiny ship, and come to the EVE-O forums to whine about it.
And you cant read.. and is incompetent and fully dependable on someone who says what you have to shoot. Deal with it ??
Anyway who lose any ship to an blob ? Apart of the ship you are in in another blob ?
People are afraid that they have to actually learn something .. i understand that.. I am at the same part of barricade.
"Some" change is not needed i give you that.. But if "some" change can make fleet battles fun and increase total players who enjoys it and learn from it from currently non to "some" it seems like an good idea. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
419
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
Cindy Marco wrote:Its not a problem at all.
If 100 or more ships the same size as yours are shooting you at once, you should be destroyed very quickly.
Has no one learnt in the past ten or so years that deploying an army, when a small tactical team would be more effective, is and in EVE's case should be expensive and ineffective? Ideas & Stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. -áStatus: Going phishing. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1274
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:05:00 -
[70] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Cindy Marco wrote:Its not a problem at all.
If 100 or more ships the same size as yours are shooting you at once, you should be destroyed very quickly.
Has no one learnt in the past ten or so years that deploying an army, when a small tactical team would be more effective, is and in EVE's case should be expensive and ineffective? Last time my corp went into IRC space with 15 guys we had 80+ get dumped on us. We killed 3-4 times more than they did over 3 systems before they snapped our back. Our survivors limped home happy, IRC swaggered home with a victory. Everyone was happy.
And that is how it should be.. "some" change will actually reward people who knows what they doing.. but if they are greatly outnumbered they will still "lose" So in the end "some" change will change nothing.. except few people will actually look forward to join. |
|
The Snowman
Aliastra Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The Snowman wrote:How about a limit on how many ships can lock one target?
increasing that limit depending on the size of the ship, and / or some module/skill/implant that can effect such statistic? Hate this idea.
Any reason behind such an emotional response?
Its the only solution really, nothing else would work. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1512
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
The Snowman wrote:baltec1 wrote:The Snowman wrote:How about a limit on how many ships can lock one target?
increasing that limit depending on the size of the ship, and / or some module/skill/implant that can effect such statistic? Hate this idea. Any reason behind such an emotional response? Its the only solution really, nothing else would work.
solutions require problems
i don't see a problem vOv |
Skydell
Space Mermaids
98
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote: It's not a problem.
I Have to agree with him in that it's not as bad as you think.
Usually the reason you are being locked by more than 10 people is to get on a killmail. Anything subcap, more than 10 locks for dps is a waste.
I think we need to go third party to find an answer for this. When you see fleet summary sheets on kill boards, they show all pilots that were there and in fleet. It also shows what system the fight took place in. Sov holders and alliances that are part of NAP coalitions to defend Sov need to establish better priorities on what value killmails have and what value being on one provides a player.
Add On If there is something large alliances can learn here it's that the standard of a good pilot being on alot of killmails is flawed because farming killmails in EVE is almost too easy. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
256
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:17:00 -
[74] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Edit: Off topic part removed, CCP Phantom.
i have a strong dislike for large scale Fleet fights, only because they are simple and have no tactics in them* i see something as broken in EvE when there is only 1 answer to a problem, and right now the only answer in large scale fleets is EVERYONE SHOOT X.
EVERYONE SHOOT X should not be the only answer to fight.
*yes i know there are many more layers in a fleet but ti still comes down to The Alpha Problem. they have logies = ALPHA THEM OFF they have ECM = ALPHA THEM OFF DPS = ALPHA THEM OFF you see there FC = ALPHA THEM OFF
The Alpha Problem.
So you dont like large scale fleet fights but youd like to change them? Why? You dont like them anyway. As for you awesome rundown of large fleet tactics (even though you dont like them), well yeah thats what you do, you decide what needs to be killed and you kill it. However you are wrong in your tactical rundown, this is why in the CFC you group guns and so on, a good FC knows how to use the ships he has, you clearly have no idea beyond shooting primary with everything.
I agree that large scale combat needs to be a bit more dynamic and exciting but if you dont take part then you dont have any reason to post this thread. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
502
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:17:00 -
[75] - Quote
The "reason" behind "the alpha problem" is twofold: 1) logistics. You have to burn through logistics. 2) The side which first reduces the applicable DPS output of the other fleet sufficiently so their own logistics can easily keep up, wins. Spreading fire across multiple targets means you take out larger chunks out of the other fleet at a time, but the other fleet has more DPS for longer. Unless, of course, the other fleet has enough logistics to counter the incoming DPS on each ship being hit.
Alpha isn't "the problem", it's the response to another game feature, which again isn't necessarily "a problem". |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
315
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:17:00 -
[76] - Quote
The Snowman wrote:baltec1 wrote:The Snowman wrote:How about a limit on how many ships can lock one target?
increasing that limit depending on the size of the ship, and / or some module/skill/implant that can effect such statistic? Hate this idea. Any reason behind such an emotional response? Its the only solution really, nothing else would work.
Because you'll just lock up everyone in your fleet by (however many is the max limit) other people in fleet, and become invulnerable. |
baltec1
447
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:24:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
And that is how it should be.. "some" change will actually reward people who knows what they doing.. but if they are greatly outnumbered they will still "lose"
Depends on what you count as a loss. We might lose the entire fleet but so long as we kill more isk worth of ships we are happy.
It was our own mistake that killed us in the end so tbh, EVE doesnt need changed as its good pilots make all the difference. Some of the best pilots are in fact nubs as they dont have any bad habbits and think they are invincible so they know no fear. Stick them in a rifter, teach them all you know, take them on roams and you will quickly have a good pilot. |
baltec1
447
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:26:00 -
[78] - Quote
The Snowman wrote:baltec1 wrote:The Snowman wrote:How about a limit on how many ships can lock one target?
increasing that limit depending on the size of the ship, and / or some module/skill/implant that can effect such statistic? Hate this idea. Any reason behind such an emotional response? Its the only solution really, nothing else would work.
A frigate gang vs Battleships or even a carrier. Your plan makes victory impossible for the frigates. |
Embrace My Hate
Black Horizon. Test Friends Please Ignore
92
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
I want to :facepalm: so hard right now. Quit begging CCP to change things, Quit it. The entire problem is the EVE Community.
We can compare current fleet doctrines to current fast food chains. It is easier to throw several lesser skilled pilots into a heap we call a fleet and tell them what to shoot. Just worry about anchoring on X and shooting A, B and C.
There is nothing preventing a group if highly skilled and experienced players from developing tactics that are far more efficient and far more tactical.
The problem then is trying to find a group of highly skilled and experienced players. :lol:
The general homogenizing of everything in EVE in the interest of "fairness" will only serve to eliminate tactical options and opportunities. This is a sandbox FFS start playing it like one. /rant
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
502
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:29:00 -
[80] - Quote
I've been part of more than one frigate gang with 100+ people in it. We took out quite a lot of battleships in that swarm before we were killed below critical mass, and setting a limit on how many ships can lock a single target not only would ruin that, it sounds remarkably dumb as well. Why should something someone else does (lock a ship) have any affect on what I do with the same ship? |
|
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
502
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:31:00 -
[81] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:I agree that large scale combat needs to be a bit more dynamic and exciting but if you dont take part then you dont have any reason to post this thread. The main thing here that needs to be changed is SOV mechanics. And probably titan guns, but I'll leave that for someone else to ***** about. |
baltec1
447
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Rico Minali wrote:I agree that large scale combat needs to be a bit more dynamic and exciting but if you dont take part then you dont have any reason to post this thread. The main thing here that needs to be changed is SOV mechanics. And probably titan guns, but I'll leave that for someone else to ***** about.
I'll ***** about titan guns all day. |
Cryten Jones
Advantage Inc The Matari Consortium
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:34:00 -
[83] - Quote
Total supported, anchored primary fights are ****.
-CJ
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
228
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:37:00 -
[84] - Quote
Guys lets punish people for having friends and being organised. |
Darwin Duck
Evil Monkey Asylum
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:40:00 -
[85] - Quote
OP, I don't really see how to fix this at all. Its the same in all games. The most effective tactics is to consentrate firepower to take ships, tanks, or whatever (depending on the game) out as quickly as possible = less return fire.
You really should come up with some ideas of your own, something spesific. Not just if everyone agrees CCP will fix it. I don't see how to fix it unless they make ships have so little HP that its a waste to have several ships targeting the same enemy ship. But that "solution" would totally break the game. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1274
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Guys lets punish people for having friends and being organised.
Guys let start reading lessons for those unfortunate to read. It will actually boost people who are organized .. But its probably too much to understand.. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1274
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
Embrace My Hate wrote:I want to :facepalm: so hard right now. Quit begging CCP to change things, Quit it. The entire problem is the EVE Community.
We can compare current fleet doctrines to current fast food chains. It is easier to throw several lesser skilled pilots into a heap we call a fleet and tell them what to shoot. Just worry about anchoring on X and shooting A, B and C.
There is nothing preventing a group if highly skilled and experienced players from developing tactics that are far more efficient and far more tactical.
The problem then is trying to find a group of highly skilled and experienced players. :lol:
The general homogenizing of everything in EVE in the interest of "fairness" will only serve to eliminate tactical options and opportunities. This is a sandbox FFS start playing it like one. /rant
double-face-palm because one is not enough .. Nobody is asking for any particular change..
This is a sandbox FFS. .. ok i want fit 1400mm on an rifter and want to fly 1mil m/s with perfect tracking and instalock .. Its sandbox FFS .. Sandbox with rules, rules which are in some areas obsolete and provides nothing for anyone. Deal with it. DD AoE ? SC ? nano-nerf? anyone?
And yes problem is find highly skilled and experience players, because there is no way to become highly skilled and experienced unless you really really go for it.. Blob wars does not provide experience or any skill beyond listening, its actually not an game ..
There is no reason whatsoever to change anything in the EVE since 2008 ... it works somehow, even if badly it works.. Why improve something if the current system works... its not perfect but it works.. lets not try to make it fun.. that is forbidden ..because EVE is serious business.
And as i wrote before, blobing will still happen. But there will be more destruction on both sites because it wont be as simple as today.. speaking of actual combat.. not the prior campaign to make it happen. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1274
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:07:00 -
[88] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
And that is how it should be.. "some" change will actually reward people who knows what they doing.. but if they are greatly outnumbered they will still "lose"
Depends on what you count as a loss. We might lose the entire fleet but so long as we kill more isk worth of ships we are happy. It was our own mistake that killed us in the end so tbh, EVE doesnt need changed as its good pilots make all the difference. Some of the best pilots are in fact nubs as they dont have any bad habbits and think they are invincible so they know no fear. Stick them in a rifter, teach them all you know, take them on roams and you will quickly have a good pilot.
I agree. However if the blobs were enaged in some chaoss .. people will eventually have to learn what to do and work as an team, more small teams of skilled persons will decimate an x-up fleet of carebears..
Same way as it is now to be honest... But "some" change can actually create an "in-game" environment where all members of the fleet can learn from and learn what to ask if they seeking knowledge. Asking what can i engage in an rifter ? Is not an bad question, but there are situations and therefore the answer can differ, person not-knowing the ropes can actually come up to those questions after he get destroyed in some fleet And move up in the ranks/experience/combat awareness with some dignity.
And ultimately makes blobing fun |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
807
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:19:00 -
[89] - Quote
if you want more interesting fleet battles get a decent FC
why is everyone so obsessed with changing the game mechanics because another player made you mad, or didn't perform to your expectations?
you cant expect CCP to code stupidity and lazyness out of EVE you have to take the initiative and create a better game for yourself from the glorious sandbox we have
when we raged on CCPs treasure fleet we flew in wings, and each wing had their own WC and they took orders from the FC, the result was an (almost) perfect ballet of SB runs.
but hold on... just getting to that point required serious thought, planning, intel and yes... TACTICS
no it wasn't a blob, but even smaller fleets still do the overview boogie and alpha primaries so I don't see the huge difference now I saw something posted here that mentioned a resist mod to help a ship survive alphas, we already have it, its called logi
Naval tactics work pretty much the same when to TFs or fleets close and engage its all about sending fire downrange and taking out the most dangerous elements first
smoke and zigzag is evasive and a borderline tactic screening is tactical may have some benefit in eve, but it requires LOF rules which I'm loath to consider
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
39
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:25:00 -
[90] - Quote
Asking CCP to fix Alpha? What, are you nuts? And how exactly are the Goons supposed to rule Eve if they fixed that? I mean really have you thought this through? If you did that you might actually have fleets of varying sizes roaming Zero and then the next thing you know we would have smaller groups trying to enter Zero.
The next thing you will probably be asking for is some mechanism other than gate ganks at the entry points. Geez, not long after that we would have random people wandering all over Zero looking for a fight.... Nooo! we can't allow that! Sorry...
but can we get a CCP Forum Moderator to just shut this thread down please and ban everyone even suggesting such an idea. Let's do that right now, otherwise the Developers will have to do a lot of coding.
Sheesh! What was that guy thinking! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |