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Why the personal hate for miners?

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Savvon	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Savvon on 04/08/2007 10:29:45 More specifically, why the hate towards me for being a miner for simply mining? I have been playing Eve since 2004. Since day one I have mined. I enjoy mining. I am to mining what some of the top end pilots are to PvP. I enjoy every aspect of mining, especially the ôbusiness simö part of it. I never complain on these forums about mining or its mechanics. I have been pretty happy with the overall ôclassö and have had some very interesting adventures in my time here. Recently though, some people have been trying my patience by: 1.Being harassed in belts by n00b ôpiratesö in high sec trying to get me to shoot at their shuttle. We all know why. I just ignore them. 2.Ore thieves stealing from jet cans. It has gotten so bad I just use a Hulk with cargo extenders in high sec. 3.Constant PMÆs asking if I am a bot or if I am ôthereö. Some PMÆs just calling me derogatory names assuming I am not at the keyboard. I turned off my PMÆs. 4.Eve hate mails saying I am ruining the game but never telling me how. I am assuming it is because ôallö miners are bots. 5.In local channel people call miners (especially ice miners) all sorts of derogatory names just for mining there. Over the years it has gotten a little worse year by year. Some might call me a carebear (even though I can probably show you a thing or two in my Raven with my capped missile/shield/drone skills) and some might not understand why I enjoy mining. No matter what you think of my game play or my preference, it truly is none of your concern and definitely does not give anyone the right to treat others like some of you have been. The point I want to make is. I mine. Leave me alone. If you do not, you will be reported to CCP for harassment.
Daedalus DuGalle Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:52:00 - [2] Damn straight. Leave us alone or one day we'll rise up in a carebear army and take you all on! The Haulers will be our tacklers/EW and we'll have Hulks holding swarms of drones....Muahhahahha! Originally by: Janu Hull Nothing says gritty cynicism like a 1 ISK note wedged between a pair of silicone enhanced knockers.
The Pointless Gallente Plastic Toys	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:58:00 - [3] Edited by: The Pointless on 04/08/2007 10:58:37 ... Just petition the goits, the moment they start, bang out that petition. If there's one thing I've learned... threats are useless. Trust me. You wouldn't beleive the crap eejits come out with when threatened with being reported. (Nobody should suffer the crap you're putting up with) ----------------------------------------------- "Breaking News! The Pointless hates GIFs!"
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Savvon Edited by: Savvon on 04/08/2007 10:29:45 1.Being harassed in belts by n00b ôpiratesö in high sec trying to get me to shoot at their shuttle. 1. Disable auto target back 2. Remove shuttles from overview. 3. Chill and continue enjoy EVE Caldari and proud
AeonOfTime Minmatar Syrkos Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:05:00 - [5] Savvon, I agree completely. I enjoy mining a lot, and know of all the issues you brought up. I have quite a few entries in my blog about macroing though, and I think the problem is that people just don't take the time to make the necessary checks. The system I am mining in (highsec, 0.9) for ex. is swarmed with macroers, and I know that for a fact as I have been observing them for about 4 months now. I reported them, but so far no action has been taken. I hate this situation, as everybody just assumes that you are a macrominer as soon as you fly a hulk and strip a few belts. I cut jetcan stealing short by always having my alt with his Mammoth sitting nearby to collect the ore - but not everyone has the leisure of an alt and two PCs to do that. I am frustrated as I don't know how to deal with all these issues anymore. It has taken all the fun out of mining and lately I have reverted to mission running. If anyone has any solutions to offer, I am all ear. -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:11:00 - [6] Edited by: Galk on 04/08/2007 11:11:37 Originally by: Savvon Constant PMÆs asking if I am a bot or if I am ôthereö. Some PMÆs just calling me derogatory names assuming I am not at the keyboard. I turned off my PMÆs. 4.Eve hate mails saying I am ruining the game but never telling me how. I am assuming it is because ôallö miners are bots. 5.In local channel people call miners (especially ice miners) all sorts of derogatory names just for mining there. Sadly this is what it comes down to when you let forum witch-hunts take place It all started a couple of years ago, members of ccp's volunteer force directing people to go free will on people they suspected.... as long as they petitioned them first, something i was in total disbelief in... considering the consequences of where this *&%^& allways leads to... (described by yourself in the reality of the situation) Ofcourse because you've been painted black, people such as yourself get little or help, and bet your life the offenders harassing you in the manner you describe won't get told to stop... maybe you won't receive it again.... but it will be on to the next inocent victim:/ I had this happen to members of one of my other halfs corps before, i find it very sad that ccp don't stomp this sort of thing out:/ ______
FarScape III Journey On Squad	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:26:00 - [7] Originally by: AeonOfTime Savvon, I agree completely. I enjoy mining a lot, and know of all the issues you brought up. I have quite a few entries in my blog about macroing though, and I think the problem is that people just don't take the time to make the necessary checks. The system I am mining in (highsec, 0.9) for ex. is swarmed with macroers, and I know that for a fact as I have been observing them for about 4 months now. I reported them, but so far no action has been taken. I hate this situation, as everybody just assumes that you are a macrominer as soon as you fly a hulk and strip a few belts. I cut jetcan stealing short by always having my alt with his Mammoth sitting nearby to collect the ore - but not everyone has the leisure of an alt and two PCs to do that. I am frustrated as I don't know how to deal with all these issues anymore. It has taken all the fun out of mining and lately I have reverted to mission running. If anyone has any solutions to offer, I am all ear. I got a suggestion get out of the bussy area's like Caldari space almost all of it is and other primary spots like that in Minmatar and Galentte space come down south a bit and you will have no problems, stay away from the 1st places you enter the game. Those people who bother you are eternal Noobs and are lazy and just your plain average morons. Not every were is like that at all. .9 is for for people in fear of their own shadow, are you telling me you can not kill a few wimpy npc ratts in .7 and below? A Minmater City... Cool! My Skills
Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:31:00 - [8] Carebears are coming to your town. They'll pick you up when you're feeling down. They're watching you from up above. Filling your dreams with caring and love. Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
Tish Magev Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:32:00 - [9] I have nothing against miners at all, never have, they have an important role in the economy of EvE and keeping those of us who don't mine in nice ships. I don't even fail to understand what people like about mining, i get the idea that for some people they like the idea of creating things from scratch, playing the market and slowly watching their own fortune grow, i can understand it for some people. It isn't what i enjoy doing but i would never have a go at someone else for spending their entire EvE time in a barge. However that doesn't as part of the game that i won't cause them trouble. Obviously it's easy to see why miners get attacked in lowsec, for either sometihng to kill or for a ransom on a hulk. What people fail to see is the point of annoying miners in highsec. The fact is A: many miners will shoot back, either in their barge or come back in a bigger ship, it can be a laugh and they're not always noobs sometime ya get a good fun fight (sometimes ya lose), B: Minning BC, BS or Hulks that are jetcan mining may decide to attack, or take their ore back and these can be ransomed which gives profit, if they don't pay ya can quite often get half decent drops as loot. Most people think you're doing it with the sole intention of annoying people when, for me at least, it isn't i'm trying to either blow something up (i like explosions) or make a bit of side cash whilst i happen to be flying around. I accept that people play the game in different ways and do not judge anyone for how they play it, I'd say the miners have a bigger problem with people playing the game a different way than most. Yes it's annoying to have ya ore stolen (you shouldn't be jetcan mining) but simple fact is if ya ignored it and got on with it, you wouldn't lose your ship and the majority of 'griefers' wouldn't bother ya again, i mean whats the point when we know you won't shoot back.
Speed Devil Caldari Mean Machines	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Savvon Edited by: Savvon on 04/08/2007 10:29:45 More specifically, why the hate towards me for being a miner for simply mining? because ur destroying unarmed helpless asteroids! when i ever find ur hulk ill suicide it
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:50:00 - [11] Save the veldspar! I gotta agree with Tish... tonight with my evil friend we aquired some T2 cruise launchers, T2 ballistic controls, and a T2 overdrive injector from a Hulk pilot that didn't appreciate what we were doing and came back in a rather well fitted Raven. It was a great fight, he had some good skills too. Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking ~Liz Kali
Norwood Franskly	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:57:00 - [12] Originally by: FarScape III Originally by: AeonOfTime .9 is for for people in fear of their own shadow, are you telling me you can not kill a few wimpy npc ratts in .7 and below? .9 = using mining drones = faster mining rate .7 = using scout drones = slower mining rate Of course it all depends on what minerals you are after I mine in anywhere from 0.2 - 1.0
Aaron	Posted - 2007.08.04 12:11:00 - [13] In real life people u dont even know can irritate you just because of the job your doing, the way you look, or even the car you drive... I normally ignore these people. Just carry on doing what youve been doing, ignore them as best you can. Attempting to try and work out why these fools act in this manner will give you a headache, When you attempted to ask that fool that sent you the PM why u were messing up the game he had nothing to say.
Savvon	Posted - 2007.08.04 12:18:00 - [14] In response: Death Kill ûThank you for your suggestions. I have done all that you have suggested and more. It is amazing how much I had to alter my game play to avoid being harassed. FarScape III û I mine in low sec space that pirates wonÆt even dare go. Instant death to them in some alliance controlled sectors. I also mine in high sec. You should take care on who you call morons, especially when you do not grasp what mining is about. Besides, name calling is not very polite. Tish Magev û Slowly watching a fortune grow? I guess nearly 4 billion a month is not considered good by your standards? I think it is good for a solo (casual) miner. Speed Devil û people like you need to be banned for using exploits to harass the player base. Try any of those exploits with an experienced miner (like myself) and you will be on the choking end of the ban stick.
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.08.04 12:20:00 - [15] Everyone hates miners because they drop crap loot and don't hang around to fight when local starts filling up. It's not like they provide anything useful, I can get all the minerals I want from pew pew. Signed: Ex-Hulk Pilot
Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.08.04 12:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Savvon Speed Devil û people like you need to be banned for using exploits to harass the player base. Try any of those exploits with an experienced miner (like myself) and you will be on the choking end of the ban stick. Whoa there Mr. Petition. Can't get someone banned for suiciding you. It's fair game mechanics. Sorry! Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
Eternus8lux8lucis Minmatar FW Inc	Posted - 2007.08.04 13:02:00 - [17] I have played for many years, and in all of that time Ive mined. Ive trained 3 characters solely for mining to start with and only now with one of them gone pew pew. I hate macroers and I hate thieves. You cant counter macroers, and everyone thinks that because you know how to mine well you MUST be a macroer, especially a guy like me whos got hours a day to play and am on a lot. They figure because they work and have to go do stuf with family and have a super busy life that EVERYONE else must to, and so if you play more than they do you macro, grind, etc. The other reason is isk. Ive seen so many of my PvP only corpmates and friends WHINE incessantly about being broke, not having ships...going out and losing their top of the line, brand spanking new, super uber fitted ship within 5 mins of having it over and over again. At the end of the day we have more isk than they do and lose 0 of it except to griefers or getting killed in low or 0.0. Miners only make isk, reinvest it and dont give any of it back if we dont have to execept to buy more gear which if were good we only keep. I found the people that hate the miner the most are those that like to kill things instead of mining. I know guys thatll sit and "guard" a mining op for hours but refuse to TOUCH a laser. I also found that most people hate miners because they think theyr weak and easy targets and make isk for doing nothing in game. Most are griefers I found, low grade pirates that cant kill or hang with the big boys either in low sec or 0.0 and need the easy kill in order to kill anything at all. Returning the favor and killing them is fun. Even stealing back my ore was fun. The two ways Ive gotten even with thieves is to stop jetcanning. Hulks with expanders works great. As well as the other character in the indy trick in low sec. The other is to steal back my ore. If I jetcanned Id never mine more than what my indy would haul in really dangerous areas with known thieves about. Theyd come flip the can and sit and wait. And of course when youd go to dock theyd run to get their hauler and it was a foot race. Most of them woudlnt be smart enough to bmk the can so your bmk would work wonders and get you there before them. Then Id steal it back and laugh at them in local. No kill, no ore, no nothing. The last guys that stole from me lost a barge, almost two and I wanted their other kill ships. I mine solo. I ended that day even. They took a few cans of ore, I took their ships. :D And that was ages ago. People dont know why miners mine. Its to build and work hard and honestly at something. Its about construction and not destruction. Its about building empires owith bricks, not with blood. Miners are like the true workers of any society. Faithful, dilligent and hardworking people. We hate macroers more than anyone else, but CCP trying to make the game about piracy has planted the "macro" threat firmly in the minds of people in Eve. And so anyone that makes big isk mining MUST be a macroer, and fair game. CCP encourages people to mistake peopel for macroers as it more PvP oriented, take away empire and "safe" space as well as deal somewhat effectively with the actual macro issues. Besides its good business. *********************************************** Where do we go from here? When theres no up and no down anymore...onward....ever onward into the vastnes of chaos till you find the light within.
darkmancer	Posted - 2007.08.04 13:28:00 - [18] Why do miners feel they should be insulated from everyone else in a MMORPG? Seriously your at no risk from the belt rats, the only threat to your isk generation is the ore thief. Even then its not that difficult to avoid being blown up. Mine with a gang, and a command ship with leaderships bonus's & gank and a rapier, see how much ore theives bother you then. Or move to different systems, or cargo expanders, or mine to a hauler, etc etc. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.04 13:34:00 - [19] its mostly threads like this that earn us/them that hate more shooting, less whining Real men fly Pink. I've been living in your cassette, It's the modern equivalent, singing up to a Capulet, on a balcony in
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.04 14:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Tish Magev I accept that people play the game in different ways and do not judge anyone for how they play it, I'd say the miners have a bigger problem with people playing the game a different way than most. Yes it's annoying to have ya ore stolen (you shouldn't be jetcan mining) but simple fact is if ya ignored it and got on with it, you wouldn't lose your ship and the majority of 'griefers' wouldn't bother ya again, i mean whats the point when we know you won't shoot back. No that is the point where they say "ah ha, I was right, it is a macro, add it to the addressbook, and steal from it forever."
Yagyu Retsudo	Posted - 2007.08.04 14:36:00 - [21] If you're making 4 billion a month mining hisec roids solo you're doing just fine. You and your ilk complained and got a jetcan criminal flag, and now that of course isn't enough. What will be enough, bar you being permanently 100% safe while hisec mining - even, dare I suggest it, afk? Miners who know what they are doing are alright. The majority of situations you're talking about can be ignored or easily avoided. As far as feeling disrespected, that's for you to deal with. I have nothing against miners personally. Now if you're getting a lot of mails / pm's to see if you are there, it helps illustrate how much of a problem macroing is in Eve. Perhaps, as an honest miner, you should sympathize?
Savvon	Posted - 2007.08.04 14:42:00 - [22] Edited by: Savvon on 04/08/2007 14:42:42 Originally by: Yagyu Retsudo Now if you're getting a lot of mails / pm's to see if you are there, it helps illustrate how much of a problem macroing is in Eve. Perhaps, as an honest miner, you should sympathize? So misguided. Macroer's effect players like me the most and I never had a problem with them. I can out mine most macroer's and if there are too many of them, I just move belts. Pretty simple. It is people insulting, exploiting and griefing miners that is the real problem. To be honest, latley I would rather mine in a belt with 10 macroer's then just one of the type of player I have described here.
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.08.04 15:15:00 - [23] Originally by: darkmancer Why do miners feel they should be insulated from everyone else in a MMORPG? Seriously your at no risk from the belt rats, the only threat to your isk generation is the ore thief. Even then its not that difficult to avoid being blown up. Mine with a gang, and a command ship with leaderships bonus's & gank and a rapier, see how much ore theives bother you then. Or move to different systems, or cargo expanders, or mine to a hauler, etc etc. Admit it, you didn't read the op did you?
Sir Moric	Posted - 2007.08.04 16:40:00 - [24] I don't mind miners, I don't like macrominers though. I have a nice little system with 4 of them and a industrial picking up their cargo. This gives me a nice oppertunity to steal some of their ore, from jetcans, when I need money and when the npc-pirates actually kill one of them from time to time, I also get a few drones for free. Yes, I don't like macrominers, on the other hand, they are free ISK for me and they don't complain when you steal from them.
Netzoka Gallente IntoXication Inc	Posted - 2007.08.04 16:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Savvon Edited by: Savvon on 04/08/2007 10:29:45 More specifically, why the hate towards me for being a miner for simply mining? I have been playing Eve since 2004. Since day one I have mined. I enjoy mining. I am to mining what some of the top end pilots are to PvP. I enjoy every aspect of mining, especially the ôbusiness simö part of it. I never complain on these forums about mining or its mechanics. I have been pretty happy with the overall ôclassö and have had some very interesting adventures in my time here. Recently though, some people have been trying my patience by: 1.Being harassed in belts by n00b ôpiratesö in high sec trying to get me to shoot at their shuttle. We all know why. I just ignore them. 2.Ore thieves stealing from jet cans. It has gotten so bad I just use a Hulk with cargo extenders in high sec. 3.Constant PMÆs asking if I am a bot or if I am ôthereö. Some PMÆs just calling me derogatory names assuming I am not at the keyboard. I turned off my PMÆs. 4.Eve hate mails saying I am ruining the game but never telling me how. I am assuming it is because ôallö miners are bots. 5.In local channel people call miners (especially ice miners) all sorts of derogatory names just for mining there. Over the years it has gotten a little worse year by year. Some might call me a carebear (even though I can probably show you a thing or two in my Raven with my capped missile/shield/drone skills) and some might not understand why I enjoy mining. No matter what you think of my game play or my preference, it truly is none of your concern and definitely does not give anyone the right to treat others like some of you have been. The point I want to make is. I mine. Leave me alone. If you do not, you will be reported to CCP for harassment. I'm not a miner, but I do feel for you. I think that the things you listed are totally uncalled for, and you should ignore things like that. Don't let it spoil your fun, if so, they win. And to think, all of the stereotypes and problems you have are because of illegal ISK selling websites. But really, I felt horribly after reading that, don't let them get to you.
Aleria Angelis Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.04 17:01:00 - [26] Have you tried taking your mining ventures to 0.0? Less macro-ers and people won't waste time insulting you. I've been mining in 0.0 for awhile now and I've yet to loose a ship, its suprisingly peaceful out there. GEPT opens its doors!
Price Watcher	Posted - 2007.08.04 17:10:00 - [27] Savvon, there are a lot of rude nasty folks in life. Some of them play this game. Ignore them as best you can is my advice. Like you I use a hulk kitted out with expanders and cargo rigs. The extra large cargo hold eliminates the need for a hauler. So the griefers can't can-flip me and I'm not noob enough to fall for the old loot trick either. After a while they get bored and go away.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.04 17:19:00 - [28] Savvon: From one carebear to another... Eve is full of tiny-brained almost single-celled organisms that blob together in the the hopes of appearing to be a complex lifeform. =/ For your dilemma, and I say the same to every miner...rather than have an alt in barge, have an alt in an Arazu. ;) If your alt can't fly a recon, look me up. :) I'm happy to babysit for a small (very small) fee. I dump a jetcan, you mine into it, I fly off and cloak, and pray that someone steals it.
Erlik Draknor Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.04 17:22:00 - [29] Trying shooting someone instead of a rock this game wasn't intended to be spent mining. BTW just suicided 2 macro hulks and if they weren't doesn't matter.
Eternus8lux8lucis Minmatar FW Inc	Posted - 2007.08.04 17:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Savvon Edited by: Savvon on 04/08/2007 14:42:42 Originally by: Yagyu Retsudo Now if you're getting a lot of mails / pm's to see if you are there, it helps illustrate how much of a problem macroing is in Eve. Perhaps, as an honest miner, you should sympathize? So misguided. Macroer's effect players like me the most and I never had a problem with them. I can out mine most macroer's and if there are too many of them, I just move belts. Pretty simple. It is people insulting, exploiting and griefing miners that is the real problem. To be honest, latley I would rather mine in a belt with 10 macroer's then just one of the type of player I have described here. I wouldnt mine with true macroers. Ill intiate convos and talk to them, if they talk back Ill be friendly and chat. If theyr consistantly afk and doing the macro dance in the belts Im around Ill simply log thier cycles and flip their cans right before they cycle it. A macroer is easy to spot. Open their can to see inside. If the ore is stacked in multiples of every ore, like 4 different piles of pyrox or veld, theyr macroing. If its stacked and sorted neat its a person. The macros only dump ore into a can, they dont drag and drop or stack it at all. Ill take it now and drop it in the corp hangar for our corp to use. But before I take it Ill label the can something nice like: "your mining for my corp now". Usually within a few cycles theyll leave. They are the only people in the game I serious dislike as an honest AT the keyboard miner. And yes I get a lot of ribbing mining and for enjoying it and doing it a lot. Ironically these are from teh guys that are buying my stuff and my ships a lot of the time too. So.... *********************************************** Where do we go from here? When theres no up and no down anymore...onward....ever onward into the vastnes of chaos till you find the light within.

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