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The new mass increasing module - WTF happens to minmatar?

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Prez21 coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.05 09:05:00 - [91] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Prez21 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Prez21 and make escaping from any gate camp near impossible. On the contrary. As long as you turn your mwd on before they lock you, this will actually help you in that situation once they turn it on. But what about bigger ships, they will never be able to turn back towards the gate and wont even get close to any sort of speed to make it back to the gate. Its a far to extreme module and isnt the answer to stopping super fast ships well its a bit too easy to escape nowadays. In fact ridiculowsly difficult to force a fight in eve today. This module isnt going to force fights, just increase gate camping ganking blobs, the only nano ships that are overpowered are the curse and ishtar due to nos, with the upcoming nos nerf this will change. 1 heavy neut would kill any inty or vagas cap making them useless and a sitting duck to any capable pvper, like i said earlier its only carebear npcers who complain about vagas because there carebear setups arnt equiped to fight them off.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.05 10:28:00 - [92] Originally by: roadrage639 Why does the module say Mass Reduction 100%.. Doesn't that make the target..... smaller? The attribute description is wrong, should be "mass modifier". If you look at the polycarbon rigs you'll see that they say -15% and also "mass reduction". A negative reduction is an increase, so with that logic they should increase mass by 15%, not reduce it. ((mass - mass reduction = new mass -> 100% mass - (-15%) mass = 115%)
Blueshell	Posted - 2007.08.05 10:59:00 - [93] Adding mass? if i activate one on a veldspar roid, will i get more ore? i like the idea :-) But what about switching it off just b4 the roid pops, then what happens, does your barge implode? i wonder
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.05 11:16:00 - [94] Originally by: Prez21 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Prez21 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Prez21 and make escaping from any gate camp near impossible. On the contrary. As long as you turn your mwd on before they lock you, this will actually help you in that situation once they turn it on. But what about bigger ships, they will never be able to turn back towards the gate and wont even get close to any sort of speed to make it back to the gate. Its a far to extreme module and isnt the answer to stopping super fast ships well its a bit too easy to escape nowadays. In fact ridiculowsly difficult to force a fight in eve today. This module isnt going to force fights, just increase gate camping ganking blobs, the only nano ships that are overpowered are the curse and ishtar due to nos, with the upcoming nos nerf this will change. 1 heavy neut would kill any inty or vagas cap making them useless and a sitting duck to any capable pvper, like i said earlier its only carebear npcers who complain about vagas because there carebear setups arnt equiped to fight them off. man you need to figth outbreak gagns a bit, then talk about the danger of nanofleets. That mosule is one ofthe best ideas in game, jsut need some balance tunning. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Cainus	Posted - 2007.08.05 11:44:00 - [95] It's an interesting idea, and I certainly don't mind if it hits TQ. The fluctuation of strength in the game makes great players stand out for a while until the slower players see some great setups and copycat. So keep the changes coming ccp, but please give us some time to adapt to one change and get some kills before you change another aspect of pvp. Get your calculators out boys, you'll need to adapt fast to survive.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:45:00 - [96] Originally by: Kagura Nikon That module is one ofthe best ideas in game, jsut need some balance tunning. i agree that this module would be one of the best in game, that's why i don't want it in game as everyone and there granny will just install some of these. even with 'only' 35% mass addition it would make inties too slow to be viable. every speed tanked ship will suffer from this and though i can understand that your ****ed about some nano recons i certainly won't agree that stopping these is reason enough to annihilate the inti and the dictor classes. this module is basically a 50km range web with an added scram vs bigger targets. way too much a cookie cutter module for my liking.
Great Artista Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:50:00 - [97] Actually, 100% mass reduction is goddamned evil module... There that vaga goes, steady orbit at 17km with 4000m/s. Suddenly, the speed jumps to 113453456 AU/S and the vaga flies off to the next galaxy. I SAY HELL YES, GIEV THAT MODUL NOW! _______ Space perverts and forum warriors united. [PERVS]
Malvahne Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.05 17:58:00 - [98] Originally by: Great Artista Actually, 100% mass reduction is goddamned evil module... There that vaga goes, steady orbit at 17km with 4000m/s. Suddenly, the speed jumps to 113453456 AU/S and the vaga flies off to the next galaxy. I SAY HELL YES, GIEV THAT MODUL NOW! Jove space here we come!
Mortuus Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.05 19:48:00 - [99] Triumvirate will be using the 100% mass reduction model for our deep space Vagabond studies. With 2 ships able to sustain a MWD and this module, we hope to get to Jove space very soon. Seriously though, why do we need another piece of MUST HAVE equipment. Ah well, I know what the extra slot on my Tempest is for now. When a module becomes a no brainer, it must be overpowered. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.05 19:49:00 - [100] Originally by: Mortuus Triumvirate will be using the 100% mass reduction model for our deep space Vagabond studies. With 2 ships able to sustain a MWD and this module, we hope to get to Jove space very soon. Seriously though, why do we need another piece of MUST HAVE equipment. Ah well, I know what the extra slot on my Tempest is for now. When a module becomes a no brainer, it must be overpowered. its not ANOTHER.. it makes MWD anon MUST have and make web a non MUST have. So this module is a great improvment!!! If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.05 20:06:00 - [101] why not make all new chars start with battlecruisers then, because if such a thingie is implemented that would be the smallest ship type viable.
Msobe	Posted - 2007.08.05 22:22:00 - [102] Answering the OP's question . . . I don't see how this idea hurts minmatar worse than neut/nos hurts amarr. Every race has cap, every race uses cap - but amarr are the "cap" race, they have the most and need the most. Draining an amarr's cap hurts him more than most, since he relies on it more than other races. Every race has speed, and every race uses it - but minmatar are the speed race, they have the most and need the most. Will a slowed down minmatar ship be in the same shape as a capless amarr ship? Both mods hurt every race in many situations, and both hurt a specific race more than others. I don't think that makes either mod a problem. It creates more potential ways to fight, and more counters to strategies that are already out there. The only danger is that if its too strong, everyone will fit it, creating less diversity, not more. It needs to be somewhere between the usefulness of sensor damps and target painters - both modules that I do think have problems, at totally different ends of the spectrum.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.05 23:35:00 - [103] Originally by: Shiken Kan why not make all new chars start with battlecruisers then, because if such a thingie is implemented that would be the smallest ship type viable. completely fake. In group battles cruisers have high survivability cause they are not targeted. In solo combat, well you SHOUld NO defeat a BS when in a cruiser. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Mortuus Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.06 00:16:00 - [104] Neither of those is already a must have, either or helps. But you do not need both. ex-Occassus Republica <3
Fager Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.06 00:30:00 - [105] Originally by: Malvahne Originally by: Great Artista Actually, 100% mass reduction is goddamned evil module... There that vaga goes, steady orbit at 17km with 4000m/s. Suddenly, the speed jumps to 113453456 AU/S and the vaga flies off to the next galaxy. I SAY HELL YES, GIEV THAT MODUL NOW! Jove space here we come! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! This Module > Jove space! me likes hehehehe "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.06 04:44:00 - [106] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Shiken Kan why not make all new chars start with battlecruisers then, because if such a thingie is implemented that would be the smallest ship type viable. completely fake. In group battles cruisers have high survivability cause they are not targeted. In solo combat, well you SHOUld NO defeat a BS when in a cruiser. both your arguments are utter bs. first you say a ship is viable to take into combat because it sucks so much that noone will target it. your other argument is well you shouldn't win against a bigger ship. anyone that skilled 10 days and sits in a bs should kill pilots that are several years old because they happen to fly something smaller, how dare they? just think about why fleets are diverse, why there are ships that actually do have specialized roles apart from the boomboom that seems to be everything you see in a ship.
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.06 05:40:00 - [107] Is this module even on SiSi? Or is the sky falling b/c of some database information again? ---------------------------------
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.08.06 06:08:00 - [108] I'm suprised the minmatar can't think of anyway to use this to their advantage.... At any rate, this module will be great if it makes it out. It might give ships that are supposed to dictate range a possiblity of dictating range......
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.08.06 06:21:00 - [109] Originally by: Xoduse Is this module even on SiSi? Or is the sky falling b/c of some database information again? Got it in one.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.06 08:22:00 - [110] Originally by: KD.Fluffy I'm suprised the minmatar can't think of anyway to use this to their advantage.... At any rate, this module will be great if it makes it out. It might give ships that are supposed to dictate range a possiblity of dictating range...... Thats the first thing I thought of when I read this, to be honest. The OP is not thinking straight. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Boonaki Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.08.06 08:57:00 - [111] It turns a min ship into a caldari ship. Fear the Ibis of doom! 113
kessah Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.08.06 09:42:00 - [112] i personally prefer to use my 30m sp in gunnery/ssc and fit guns and a tank i know its weird these days not to fit up for speed and damps.. Its just no module in game should stacked be able to completely make you risk free. I mean why should they? its the risk that keeps you playing mostly. Ive took the time and trained up for 3 years to use my ships and gun's to the best one can, id like to be able to use those skills and mod's without being completely 100% screwed with out devoting myself dual/triple web, quad sensor booster. Those bloody nano typhoons are still used - Just isnt right in my mind. -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:04:00 - [113] the problem with this thingie isn't that it would stop nanobs's (tho i haven't seen one in a while), but that it would stop any ship that relies on speed and the moment you show me a nice tank for a tackler i'll stop complaining.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:24:00 - [114] Taclers should NOT have a great tank. Its their role, their need to face they will have severe casualities!!! That si what make the cobmat fun in this game, the several roles people must get. Small ships SHould be there to be sacrificed to keep the big ones alive and help to kill enemy ones. Also you don 't need to use only a frig to tackle a Battleship. You can tackle it with a itnie, then release it for a bigger ship to hold it! Spped tanks should not be able to keep ANY ship, not even inties 100% safe. Their role shoudl be to make posssible to withdraw FAST out of battle when targeted then come back. I repeat your Inties SHOULD NOT be able to tackle a BS alone and stay alive!! That is a task for multiple tiny ships or a BC. People need to stop wanting their ships to be able to do anything. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Queen Hopy Your Friendly Booster Company	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:25:00 - [115] If a mod like this is ever introduced to the game, a nanofiber should counter its effect. Period.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:31:00 - [116] Originally by: Shiken Kan Edited by: Shiken Kan on 06/08/2007 05:02:19 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Shiken Kan why not make all new chars start with battlecruisers then, because if such a thingie is implemented that would be the smallest ship type viable. completely fake. In group battles cruisers have high survivability cause they are not targeted. In solo combat, well you SHOUld NO defeat a BS when in a cruiser. both your arguments are utter nonesense. first you say a ship is viable to take into combat because it sucks so much that noone will target it. your other argument is well you shouldn't win against a bigger ship. anyone that skilled 10 days and sits in a bs should kill pilots that are several years old because they happen to fly something smaller, how dare they? just think about why fleets are diverse, why there are ships that actually do have specialized roles apart from the boomboom that seems to be everything you see in a ship. A character 10 days old ina BS wnt kill an intie even with this module. But a small ship should not be able to hold a BS alone FOrever!!! Fleets are diverse because there are roles to be fulfilled! And stop thinking that all ships should have same survivability! That is basic strategic and warfare rules, there must be cannon fooder to keep the big troops alive. If you choosen to be an elite cannon fooder, ok good, but do not want to be able to hold forver against an eilite heavy ship. Also you would need 2 or 3 of those to makean intie a HITABLE target. If 3 ships are targetign you in fleet battle you should be in trouble, no matter if you are in intie, Cruiser, BC etc... If your inties drop form 6 km/s to 2 km/s then you start to get in danger. But get in adnger is part of battle! Inties have very very low death ratio in big battles, this change woudl only be fair and make them pay attention. All need to keep in mind, this game is NOT balanced on 1v1 but on gang warfare!!! learn to accept the drawbacks of your roles as you rejoice with their advantages. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kunming The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.08.06 11:00:00 - [117] Yees..on theory minmatar are boned by this module, while in practice they are the ones benefiting most from it, especially considering slot layout. I see this module becoming a standard for pulseboats rather than blasterboats, blasterboats will still use their mids for things that are much more important than EW: MWD, web, scram, injector.. Some 3 mid blasterboats fit cap injector instead of scram in gangs, thats pretty much everything a blasterthron can sacrifice in a gang, solo its a hefty sacrifice, so it doesnt matter really since someone in the gang will fit the module for sure. Now lets think, minmatar pilots are worried about blasterboats turning them into sitting ducks, but minmatar ships have more mids than gallente or amarr so the module only really becomes viable in gangs, since in a 1-on-1 situation its just like webs: web the webber and move out! If anything its blasterboats who pulled the shorter one on this, with their huge mass. I see it rather turn into a must have module for missile spammers against rushing short range ships + the only defence you can have vs a nano-gang. All in all adds more flavour. BTW F1-F8 requires more skill and finesse, than buzzing around your opponent knowing he is absolutely helpless against you unless u get 10km close to him. I used nano-setups myself and they do not resemble skill in the least sense at all, sorry but that arguement of "nano setups are for the skillful, f1-f8 for the brainless" is rather ironic when all you do is stack up implants and mods to reach and sustain max speed possible, knowing everything except a minmatar recon will fall prey to you. Had to be said... Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.08.06 15:49:00 - [118] Originally by: Msobe Answering the OP's question . . . I don't see how this idea hurts minmatar worse than neut/nos hurts amarr. Every race has cap, every race uses cap - but amarr are the "cap" race, they have the most and need the most. Draining an amarr's cap hurts him more than most, since he relies on it more than other races. Every race has speed, and every race uses it - but minmatar are the speed race, they have the most and need the most. Will a slowed down minmatar ship be in the same shape as a capless amarr ship? Both mods hurt every race in many situations, and both hurt a specific race more than others. I don't think that makes either mod a problem. It creates more potential ways to fight, and more counters to strategies that are already out there. The only danger is that if its too strong, everyone will fit it, creating less diversity, not more. It needs to be somewhere between the usefulness of sensor damps and target painters - both modules that I do think have problems, at totally different ends of the spectrum. and don't forget that ecm has a greater affect against amarr with thier lower sensor strength of the ships
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.06 16:13:00 - [119] Originally by: Gawain Hill and don't forget that ecm has a greater affect against amarr with thier lower sensor strength of the ships Minmatar ships are second worse. I dont know what the motivation is for it, but... --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.06 17:18:00 - [120] Originally by: Kagura Nikon A character 10 days old ina BS wnt kill an intie even with this module. But a small ship should not be able to hold a BS alone FOrever!!! again nonesense, with this module EVERY 10 day old bs pilot that knows what he is doing would pop EVERY inti at 50 km. besides atm you got a very easy method to get rid of the evil lil pests, that's called nos. after the nos nerf that will be called neutralizer. if you don't want to fit a single module that lets you escape then it's your problem. heck your example only shows that you have absolutely no idea how mass works. put ONE of these mods on an inti flying at 6km/s and it will slow down to a bit over 3km/s. almost half speed. and with this speed any drake will instapop you. now tell me where would be the use of bringing in tackler frigs if they all explode one second after being locked? besides tackling is dangerous enough as it is, mebbe you should step out of your bs for once and try it.

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I SAY HELL YES, GIEV THAT MODUL NOW!

I SAY HELL YES, GIEV THAT MODUL NOW!

I SAY HELL YES, GIEV THAT MODUL NOW!