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IMPORTANT - Changes to POSs coming SoonÖ

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Braaage Laborius Chapter	Posted - 2007.08.05 11:49:00 - [1] Note these changes are currently on SISI (test server) and are subject to change/removal/dev manipulation before hitting TQ Currently on Sisi the Control Tower Fuel and Strontium are split into 2 bays. When you right click the control tower you have access fuel and access strontium bays. This means you can no longer "tinker" with fuel and strontium amounts. This means you can fuel a control tower to it's max without having to worry about strontium changes This means you can MAX fuel both strontium and fuel in a tower all the time. This means the MAX strontium in it's current form is 3333 (on a large tower) which is a max reinforced time of 22 hours. In my opinion this is a good thing for POS management but is 22 hours enough? Discuss PS Please note the green bit at the top --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.eve-guides.com POS, Outpost and Sovereignty info
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.08.05 12:20:00 - [2] 16 hours on a normal large pos, ouch find it weird that they use a 10'000m3 stront bay when stront is a 3m3 size bay should be a multiple of 3. Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
DirtyHarry Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.05 14:38:00 - [3] good change imo Havocide - DirtyHarry
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.05 15:24:00 - [4] 1 day should be enough to get defense operation going. Main idea of strontsium reserves is to make sure you get your word in on the defense front of it and wont get just ganked when your timezone is sleeping. Current 3d 6h timer is indeed a bit silly (altho it opened up some possibilities of say - outmanuevering enemy dread pilots if you know they are at work inside week). Overall good change so you will be able to maintain normal fuel levels without sacrificing your defece (by having to keep enough stronts in main area to be able to respond should it get attacked).
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2007.08.05 19:53:00 - [5] Interesting. Thanks for pointing it out. Makes sense that it would not be possible to tinker with the fuel/strontium ratio, however it doesn't suggest you can't tinker with strontium amounts? Is it no longer possible to remove strontium? I could imagine that 22hrs will make a lot of POS alot more vulnerable, as it will no longer be up to the pure size of the defending force, but the speed at which they can gather up a group to defend. At I guess, I'd say there are many who maintain stront at levels of 2-3 days in order to account for the reaction time and notice required by of their alliance/corp. Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert - Sovereign Systems - Alliance Rank
Braaage Laborius Chapter	Posted - 2007.08.05 22:17:00 - [6] Yeh sure it's just like the fuel bay and you can remove strontium, but the max it will hold is 22 hours (large tower with Sov) or 16 hours (large tower without sov). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.eve-guides.com POS, Outpost and Sovereignty info
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.08.05 22:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Serenity Steele At I guess, I'd say there are many who maintain stront at levels of 2-3 days in order to account for the reaction time and notice required by of their alliance/corp. 22 hours is too short. 48 hours would seem to be the sweet spot, you get a whole day to plan/move assets, and then however much time you need for the clock to roll around to the time you want to fight at. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
deadtear GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.05 23:06:00 - [8] Originally by: DirtyHarry good change imo So your poses only last for a day instead of 3? Isn't this counterintuitive to the way bob has been working lately? Anyway no, it's not enough time, 48 hours, if not longer would be infinitely better.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.05 23:26:00 - [9] Agreeing with 48 hours as a maximum.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.06 01:29:00 - [10] Originally by: deadtear So your poses only last for a day instead of 3? Isn't this counterintuitive to the way bob has been working lately? Leave the CAOD **** in CAOD. This is actually a very, very good change. It allows the system defender the advantage of exact choice of defense time, while limits the system attacker to under 16 hours, putting them at a serious disadvantage. Also makes POS spamming harder, as you wont be able to keep the same POS holding the same moon for 2 days simply on stront.
Galston	Posted - 2007.08.06 06:31:00 - [11] Edited by: Galston on 06/08/2007 06:32:08 Originally by: DirtyHarry good change imo Not surprising that you do. BoB has shown itself completely incapable of destroying even a single large POS of their enemies in weeks, while losing dozens and dozens themselves. This has been in large part due to the Coalition's ability to provide defensive support round the clock, something aided by the ability to time stront(which BoB has apparently consistently failed to do) It has been repeatedly confirmed by BoB leadership that BoB higher-ups talk directly to CCP developers through IMs. BoB has defended this by saying that they use it to give "feedback" and "suggestions". Given BoB's well demonstrated penchant for metagaming, bending rules, and breaking them to gain an advantage in-game, why is it so absurd to think that when dbp or Dianabolic or Sirmolle are chatting up the devs on MSN, they don't pass along suggestions that are meant to help BoB while labelling them as things that are good for the game as a whole? I'm not saying that's how this decision came about. It is a rather bizarre change however, as it makes POS defense vastly more difficult, just after CCP rolled out an entire new sov system designed to do the exact opposite. And it does come after weeks of BoB being unable to take out a single RedSwarm POS while losing 50 or more of their own. Even if there wasn't any BoB (mis)influence on the developers pushing for this change, it's still a bad one, and it still shows the dangers of favoritism. Anyways, the point of stront timing is to make certain that the attackers can't simply use alarm clock ops and timezone differences to destroy enemy POSes without real resistance. This change makes that much more difficult, and is completely unnecessary. 48 hours could be workable, but 22 is far too short.
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.06 07:01:00 - [12] This is a horrible change. Its just not enough time to organize a fight. The stront timers were incorporated so that you wouldn't wake up one morning with all your poses destroyed with no chance to defend them. 22 hours is the max if you have SOV. So, for attackers, they get a max of 17 hours. Honestly, this makes defending a POS much more difficult. Is this CCP's answer to the server lag in huge fights? Are they trying to eliminate those huge fleet battles by giving each side less time to marshal forces? This is a poor solution.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.06 07:07:00 - [13] I could cool my Dual Giga Beams through many siege cycles with all the carebear tears in this thread.
pardux The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.06 07:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I could cool my Dual Giga Beams through many siege cycles with all the carebear tears in this thread. HI DIGI
sliver 0xD Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.06 07:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Hrin This is a horrible change. Its just not enough time to organize a fight. The stront timers were incorporated so that you wouldn't wake up one morning with all your poses destroyed with no chance to defend them. 22 hours is the max if you have SOV. So, for attackers, they get a max of 17 hours. Honestly, this makes defending a POS much more difficult. Is this CCP's answer to the server lag in huge fights? Are they trying to eliminate those huge fleet battles by giving each side less time to marshal forces? This is a poor solution. totaly agree. at 2:00 eve time i go sleep. at that point the pos gets attacked. 8 hours later i wake up and go to work for 8 hours. after i come back there will be 6 hours left if i check my eve. and then we have to start to organize a counter attack ? this wont get any fights. this will only result in allot of pos loss. 48 hours is much beter.
Mahrin Skel Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.06 08:33:00 - [16] This would hand one hell of an advantage to the agressor in a territorial conflict. Right now the only advantage the defender has is that he can choose the time of the second fight for a POS with a lot of flexibility to create the maximum inconvenience for the attacker. It takes a lot of time to organize a fleet op where capitals are involved, time the attacker is going to have (because he can do it all before the attack) and the defender is not (because he'd have, at most assuming Sov and high-grade Faction towers, 37 hours to get ready). We're going to see a lot of stations trading hands in blitz attacks. A day and a half is simply not enough time to organize a defense, call for allies, have them arrive, etc. Combined with the new Sov rules and the uber-gimp POS guns we have now (a fleet of 40BS should not be able to take out a fully-fitted large POS, no matter how much time they have, in fact with enough time and stront a single dread could do it because even a maxed-out POS cannot kill a well-fitted Dread in siege), we're going to see large swaths of no-man's-land, where nobody is allowed to hold space long enough to establish Sov 3 or 4, seperating a comparative handful of alliances (less than a third of the current number of territorial alliances) that have Sov 3-4, jumpgate networks, etc. Those that live in that space will be much like those that live in NPC regions, trying to keep a low profile while living in space they can never actually own. --Dave
Raphael Scoria Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.06 08:33:00 - [17] Edited by: Raphael Scoria on 06/08/2007 08:36:01 Hehe, how extraordinary that the first major change to PoS warfare for years happens as a certain alliance are getting hammered in a PoS war. Anyway, for all that it makes things a lottery, it's probably a positive change for the coalition in the long run. People are going to have to depend for PoS defence on their allies in different time zones. We have RA and TCF. Bob have Rise, Corm, Soco and RMF. Contrast and compare. Edit: Oh, and Mahrin is right about the effects, at least as far as a certain over-extended alliance is concerned. FREGE showed brilliantly how vulnerable such a group are to simultaneous attacks on resources in many different locations.
Zombie Network	Posted - 2007.08.06 09:00:00 - [18] Originally by: sliver 0xD at 2:00 eve time i go sleep. at that point the pos gets attacked. 8 hours later i wake up and go to work for 8 hours. after i come back there will be 6 hours left if i check my eve. and then we have to start to organize a counter attack ? This cannot be stressed enough. With good timing, this makes it possible to kill a tower before the defender even has a chance to rally the troops. It also messes with cross-timezone conflicts. Hit a tower at 4am, and it will come out at 2am or if you have someone online at that time to time the stront you could set it to 9-10pm that day, but considering that most people (including leadership) won't get home from school/work and login to find out what is happening until around 7pm, that only gives 2 hours to arrange a system defense and get everybody into position. I don't think ANYONE likes the idea of logging on in the evening to find all your towers coming out of reinforced in the next few hours. The 'standard' amount of stront I have seen people use for timing is either 36 or 48 hours depending on circumstance. This allows the defender enough time to organise a defense in their timezone. Considering the cost and vulnerability of towers, 48 hours seems like a good upper cap, no this 16-22 crap which is going to end up with alliances falling before they realise they have been attacked. CCP have put a lot of work recently into allowing alliances to secure their territory, a change like this which doubles the vulnerability of systems to suprise sieges seems counter-intuitive. I would love to know their thoughts behind this change.
zykerx Pegasus Mining and Securities R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.06 09:03:00 - [19] i remember the day when i did put 4 days strontium in a tower man were the enemies disapointed . "MY COMMENTS IN NO WAY REFLECT MY CORP OR ALLIANCE"
Redback911 Malevolent Intentions Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.08.06 09:07:00 - [20] 48 hrs required, if only to allow for 36 hour ranges - shift timezone and allow for defence deployment.
Hohne Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.06 09:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Hohne on 06/08/2007 09:13:00 ? 22hrs ? Ok, so go declare war on a corp with an empire POS,... do nothing for a few weeks, then put their POS into reinfoced. 22hrs will not be enough time for them to get allies to dec the attacking corp. This will also mean that people can attack a POS with the knowledge that if they time it right, it can come out on what can still be a weekend for them, but not for their enemy. TBH I don't think 36 hours is unreasonable, and IMO is the bare minimum. 4 days is pretty extreme, but I think that option should be available.
Kayl Breinhar Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.06 09:14:00 - [22] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I could cool my Dual Giga Beams through many siege cycles with all the carebear tears in this thread. And I can't decide which post is less productive. Your pitiful attempt at an RP troll, or Raphael's tinfoil post. I'm actually leaning towards Raph, but it's an infinitesmal lean.
The Medusa Minmatar DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.06 09:53:00 - [23] hmm... This favors the side that can log in 500+ pilots right after DT... I think I might have to get a VPN to my home network now so I can put my 6 rifter-alts with protocloaks into any system that needs defending.... yarrrr!!!

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:37:00 - [24] The authoring changes required to support the code changes here haven't made it onto SiSi yet, so the bay sizes are incorrect.

Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.08.06 11:21:00 - [25] Shorter POS reinforced times = win. With higher levels of sovereignty its already hard to get an established alliance into trouble for their space. By reducing the amount of time they can ignore the impending doom for, means the quicker you can get on with conquering them. Less timesinks = win. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
StarCommWraith Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.06 11:41:00 - [26] Ifni I think that was the dumbest thing you ever posted because 22 hours is very very hard to organize a defense. I do not see how any rational person could think otherwise but I dunno maybe you should try POS warfare before you make opinions on the matter.
Shin Ra Origin Unknown.	Posted - 2007.08.06 12:28:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Greyscale The authoring changes required to support the code changes here haven't made it onto SiSi yet, so the bay sizes are incorrect. So how big can we expect each bay to be?
Braaage Laborius Chapter	Posted - 2007.08.06 12:34:00 - [28] Edited by: Braaage on 06/08/2007 12:35:09 I did emphasise the fact this was on Sisi and may probably change before hitting TQ. I like the idea of a separate Stront bay but the reason I posted was personally I thought 16-22 hrs was too short. 36ish hrs somewhere would be much better. Oh and make the bay divisable by 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.eve-guides.com POS, Outpost and Sovereignty info
Gragnor Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.06 12:38:00 - [29] The big issue is how do we prevent POS spamming. When will there be a finite level to which POS's cannot be spammed any further to stop the CVA/UK debacle where I heard some 54 moons ended up with a tower on them? The restriction on POS tower fuel bay strontium size is fair compared to Sovreignty Level 3 advantages (cyno jamming).
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.08.06 14:49:00 - [30] Originally by: StarCommWraith Ifni I think that was the dumbest thing you ever posted because 22 hours is very very hard to organize a defense. I do not see how any rational person could think otherwise but I dunno maybe you should try POS warfare before you make opinions on the matter. Right. Yes. I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. Just ignore me and my posts on all topics relating to POS' and their ilk. Or, you could actually stop thinking you know everything about me and what I've done in my EVE career, and consider the impact of the changes. 22 hours, if that is what it will be, reduces the protracted waiting period for POS warfare. Sure, as the defender, it makes life harder, but then as the aggressors yourselves does it not help you? Nothing will stop the POS pingpong since each side drags the other down to the lowest common denominator, this being Sov 1, and then fights there. By limiting the amount of fuel in the POS' you are limiting the amount of time spent sitting on your backsides building upto a giant fleet which eventually crashes the node and makes it unplayable, for attacker and defender alike. I won't deny, it means that if you have a Titan in build, and it comes under siege on a Wednesday night, it is going to be hard to gather people to defend it for the Thursday night. But, what it also means is that when you do the same to your enemies, the chance of you succeeding in destroying the target POS is higher too. By having it suddenly hit the fan, it's limiting the potential prep period for a node crashing megablob, on both sides, and actually encouraging you to fight without tsaid megablob ruining it for everyone. What works against you, works against your enemies, and vice versa. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.

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