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Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:10:00 - [1] Is there any DoT dmg in this game? I can't think of any off the top of my head, and if not, you think they should introduce it? For those that don't know what DoT is, it's dmg over time.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:12:00 - [2] No, I can't think of any module that would cause damage over time after it's been deactivated. And no, I can't really see any use for it. Do you have any idea or suggestion what kind of module or phenomenon it would be? Post count: 685613
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:12:00 - [3] Originally by: Rialtor Is there any DoT dmg in this game? I can't think of any off the top of my head, and if not, you think they should introduce it? For those that don't know what DoT is, it's dmg over time. No, and it's probebly best that their isn't since A. This isn't WoW ---and--- B. It would put extra strain on the Servers. ---And--- C. It would either be too weak or too powerful depending on how it was implimented "possibly both in different situations even". ______________________ DubanFP> Like Hannable our enemies know how to win a battle, but not a war.
LeviUK hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:21:00 - [4] No, not really. The closest I guess would be drones as they can still deal damage even after you have unlocked the target. Having said that, if we're talking WoW comparisons, drones are probably more akin to wow pets although pets in Eve are a different thing altogether
Llerrad Gabemid Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:30:00 - [5] can't think of any but can't think of any reason to implement it either. it caused lots of annoying problems in wow that no one really liked. Ranch on my tossed salad please.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:33:00 - [6] If they introduced a new type of nano weaponry, then maybe. I don't see why it couldn't be a viable option(no...dot does not equal wow ), if there were countermeasures and such. Balance issues ofcourse, exploit issues, and so forth. Though this probably would go into the mine category, stupid people ruining fun things 'cause they want to be "lol" So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
TII Noob	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Rialtor Is there any DoT dmg in this game? I can't think of any off the top of my head, and if not, you think they should introduce it? For those that don't know what DoT is, it's dmg over time. DoT is a carebear/WOW word, in eve its called DPS.
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:57:00 - [8] Odd that everyone equates DoT with WoW. The term DoT does not come from WoW as DoT existed way before WoW. WoW is a fairly new MMO, and there's been a vast number of MMOs that use DoT well. DoT opens up alot of design space, as it generally allows energy efficiency, usually DoT dmg does alot of dmg at a minimum of energy because of the nature of the dmg type. It opens up different play-types, a more hit and run type style of play. But the point was to open up a discussion, I'm bored at work.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.08 19:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Rialtor Odd that everyone equates DoT with WoW. The term DoT does not come from WoW as DoT existed way before WoW. WoW is a fairly new MMO, and there's been a vast number of MMOs that use DoT well. DoT opens up alot of design space, as it generally allows energy efficiency, usually DoT dmg does alot of dmg at a minimum of energy because of the nature of the dmg type. It opens up different play-types, a more hit and run type style of play. But the point was to open up a discussion, I'm bored at work. forget even MMORPGs. armada for the dreamcast secret of mana for the snes that fighting game for the wonder swan. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP Quote: CCP posted a new dev blog, they are going to bring Nos in line with.....well....logic
lyrenna Caldari The Renaissance The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:04:00 - [10] Originally by: TII Noob Originally by: Rialtor Is there any DoT dmg in this game? I can't think of any off the top of my head, and if not, you think they should introduce it? For those that don't know what DoT is, it's dmg over time. DoT is a carebear/WOW word, in eve its called DPS. damage over time, damage per second, both are general mmo abbreviations, and by the way a carebear is still a bear if its bite your head it can rip it away.. post with your main please. === when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten. ===
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Rialtor on 08/08/2007 20:07:44 Originally by: MotherMoon forget even MMORPGs. armada for the dreamcast secret of mana for the snes that fighting game for the wonder swan. Lol, true. I guess it's not that odd people equate it with WoW :). I just Equated it to MMOs, when that's clearly not the case either ;).
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:09:00 - [12] Actually, a great DoT weapon, if we take out the armor eating nanobots(countered with some sort of EMP ), would be a "flamethrower" type of weapon. BAsically like a NOS, but one that bombards the enemy with..umm...particles? So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Llerrad Gabemid Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:24:00 - [13] Originally by: TII Noob Originally by: Rialtor Is there any DoT dmg in this game? I can't think of any off the top of my head, and if not, you think they should introduce it? For those that don't know what DoT is, it's dmg over time. DoT is a carebear/WOW word, in eve its called DPS. no, you're just wrong. DoT =/= DPS DoT, as already said, isn't even a WoW word. It just means damage over time. Uh, how did that become carebear? Lots of non-carebear games have DoTs. Damage over time =/= Damage per second. DoT = causes X damage spread out over Y time. DPS = Average damage dealt per second over X seconds. Totally different. is this your first mmo? Ranch on my tossed salad please.
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Actually, a great DoT weapon, if we take out the armor eating nanobots(countered with some sort of EMP ), would be a "flamethrower" type of weapon. BAsically like a NOS, but one that bombards the enemy with..umm...particles? a flamethrower wouldn't really be a DoT weapon, unless it continued to dmg after you shut it off. Not that I don't like that idea for a weapon, but it's not realy DoT. It would work like anyother weapon, turn it on, and you have to stay in range, and every so often it ticks dmg. But you still have to stay in range.
Kateryne Minmatar KAOS. KA0S Theory	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:44:00 - [15] Smartbombs should be changed to just slowly drain the HP of all targets within it's radius... that'd give you DoT and also get rid of bomba-geddon/domi/phoon etc setups
hobieone Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:49:00 - [16] Edited by: hobieone on 08/08/2007 20:50:01 i don't think dots would be wise in this game it just wouldn't fit technologicaly unless it were used as a biological weapon. but then how would that affect a ship with a sealed hull unless you could fire it thru a hull breach. aside from that. having dot damage type in a game. those like myself who played games like eq2 or guild wars that have these damage types for awhile can attest that the devs for those game are constinanty ballince the damage from them non-stop and in the end doing no more damage than a non dot damage so what the point in having them best to leav them out of the game and give ccp devs one unless to have to worry about balancing [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccp
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Kateryne Smartbombs should be changed to just slowly drain the HP of all targets within it's radius... that'd give you DoT and also get rid of bomba-geddon/domi/phoon etc setups Didn't really think of Self AoE DoT either, Ranged AoE DoT would be nice as well :).
Kateryne Minmatar KAOS. KA0S Theory	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:54:00 - [18] Well then you could change the Titans doomsday... people complain it lags the server and in fact makes blob warfare worse, rather than relieve the strain of it. Make it into a massive DoT weapon, slowly drains health of ALL ships in grid.. would make fleet combat fast and furious if at all!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Rialtor Originally by: Sheriff Jones Actually, a great DoT weapon, if we take out the armor eating nanobots(countered with some sort of EMP ), would be a "flamethrower" type of weapon. BAsically like a NOS, but one that bombards the enemy with..umm...particles? a flamethrower wouldn't really be a DoT weapon, unless it continued to dmg after you shut it off. Not that I don't like that idea for a weapon, but it's not realy DoT. It would work like anyother weapon, turn it on, and you have to stay in range, and every so often it ticks dmg. But you still have to stay in range. True, it would more be a "damage syphon" type of thing. Hmm. Guess my nanite bomb was the best i came up with still So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:59:00 - [20] Originally by: hobieone Edited by: hobieone on 08/08/2007 20:50:01 i don't think dots would be wise in this game it just wouldn't fit technologicaly unless it were used as a biological weapon. but then how would that affect a ship with a sealed hull unless you could fire it thru a hull breach. aside from that. having dot damage type in a game. those like myself who played games like eq2 or guild wars that have these damage types for awhile can attest that the devs for those game are constinanty ballince the damage from them non-stop and in the end doing no more damage than a non dot damage so what the point in having them best to leav them out of the game and give ccp devs one unless to have to worry about balancing You can always find flavor justification for something, especially in a Sci-fi realm. It's already been stated, something like nano-bots could cause DoT dmg. I agree in the end DoT chars and Direct Damage Chars should have similiar DPSes, but DoT gives a character more options. As you don't have to be there while dmg is being done. Usually this is more for squishy type characters that can't go in there and take direct fire. Get into Firing range, launch your payload, get out, and wait for a rchg. As an aside, I find webbing in this game very ********. Why is it instant? what sense does that make? it should take a a few seconds for it to take effect. Especially with this grav gun coming up.
PathetiQ Gallente The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:21:00 - [21] WTB: 'Magical' Thorax Navy Issue
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:29:00 - [22] In my experience from different MMORPGs DoTs always end up falling into one of 2 categories: 1. Totally worthless, the extra damage is so low it's not worth the time it takes to apply it. 2. Gamebreakinly overpowered, the extra damage is high and often bypasses resists. If you don't do DoTs you don't stand a chance in pvp. Seems they are very hard to balance correctly. Best to just leave them out. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:35:00 - [23] Originally by: PathetiQ WTB: 'Magical' Thorax Navy Issue I looked it up in the dev database, and its actually Thorax Magical Issue. Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:39:00 - [24] Originally by: Hoshi In my experience from different MMORPGs DoTs always end up falling into one of 2 categories: 1. Totally worthless, the extra damage is so low it's not worth the time it takes to apply it. 2. Gamebreakinly overpowered, the extra damage is high and often bypasses resists. If you don't do DoTs you don't stand a chance in pvp. Seems they are very hard to balance correctly. Best to just leave them out. So you've never played a game where it was just right? Try City of Heroes, it applies DoT quite nicely.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:13:00 - [25] Rockets, Autocannons - the spammy weapons are pretty much DoT weapons. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Rockets, Autocannons - the spammy weapons are pretty much DoT weapons. hmmm interesting, strictly speaking they're not, as DoT is generally applied to the character directly, the ToHit check is done up front then the damage proceeds through a series of ticks, usually some sort of constant dmg. When the missle is launched it has not yet performed it's tohit check technically, even though missles hit 100% of the time you can still out run it, or even worse be out of range. As where a DoT generally has already applied it's DoT, and just starts ticking dmg. But I can see the angle you're coming from, I will concede that it is close.
Joshua Foiritain Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Rialtor As you don't have to be there while dmg is being done. ... ----- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Drazin DawnTreader The Elear	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:44:00 - [28] There are a couple Missions that put you in an Acid storm or something... which ticks damage every once in awhile. You -could- make a module that surrounds the target in an Acid gas cloud to do the same thing. But I don't really see a need to have such a thing in EvE. Just one more thing to try and balance/stack properly. I'd much rather see other issues addressed and fixed first.
Krav Egad Inc. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.08 23:50:00 - [29] Edited by: Krav on 08/08/2007 23:53:09 Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Originally by: Rialtor As you don't have to be there while dmg is being done. ... See, that right there in the OP really bothered me too. Even if you couldn't warp out, there's still speeding in, getting a DoT weapon to hit, and leaving range again, while still doing the damage... This is a balancing nightmare waiting to happen. Put me down as a "no, thanks" vote. Krav Edit: Krav casts nanobotkillas on OP, wreaking for 100 damage every 4 seconds while he cloaks. DoT is totally laced with a magical connotation, and WoW deals with magical characters, so yeah, not so much of a stretch to see why that parallel got drawn. ===== Stacking Penalties and you
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.08.09 00:23:00 - [30] No thanks! Its bad enough to experience taking damage while in warp due to lag and i really want this to happen on purpose.
Kyusoath Orillian Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.08.09 00:59:00 - [31] no. god no. no dots, dots are a balancing nightmare and the origin of many a whine. if there was a module or ship that acted like warlocks from wow, if it was worthless it would be buffed until it was a standard module/ship , then it would be whined about until it was nerfed. exactly what happened in wow, no one played 'locks until they got buffed then they are considered godly , then counters were put in place to make it useless(stun locks,CloS,Warriors melee damage,nerf after nerf) what happened is the whiners won and yet still whine. so no dots ever please. if you go to the wow forums take some cheese. ___________/------------------------\_____________ 'blizzard are nothing , they are rich guys selling garbage to children'
Pychian Vanervi Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.09 11:16:00 - [32] Easy one to impliment....... Just have some way of getting out your pod with a bag of sugar(maybe a sack for bigger ships) float over to the enemy ship and deposite in the fuel tank..... DoT until it really screws your engine. Can imagine the game going down hill after this has been implimented due to the influx of digruntled Wives/GF and lovers using it to sabotage partners ships.... Or even as a training ground for the cheated.. Can see it now 'Learn how to f**k up your cheating partners car.. Come practice on Eve!!' b]----------------------------- It's all about the fortune and glory, fortune and glory![/b] [
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:19:00 - [33] Drones are as close as EVE gets to a DOT weapon. They share some of the characteristics in that if you jam the person attacking with drones you do not interfere with the drones themselves & they will (or occasionally some will) continue to deal damage even after the person who sent them out is dead. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:37:00 - [34] Fighters kinda do that if you let them roam.
Jack Molotov Gallente Knights Of The New Order	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:45:00 - [35] Edited by: Jack Molotov on 09/08/2007 12:48:11 I think DoT is far out of place in Eve. The mechanics of combat are MUCH diffrent.(then the earth based-fanatasy games). I played a 'lock in WoW, and once you get fear, you become the cheapest mofo in the game.
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.09 13:48:00 - [36] Originally by: Jack Molotov Edited by: Jack Molotov on 09/08/2007 12:48:11 I think DoT is far out of place in Eve. The mechanics of combat are MUCH diffrent.(then the earth based-fanatasy games). I played a 'lock in WoW, and once you get fear, you become the cheapest mofo in the game. You guys focus way too much on WoW, there's plenty of reasons I can come up with to justify DoT dmg. I don't know why you associate DoT with a magical context automatically. It makes perfect sense in a game with ships. If you shoot at ships you usually do dmg, fire etc. Damages to ship usually propagate themselves, that can be DoT.
Erim Solfara Amarr House of Solfara	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:36:00 - [37] Originally by: TII Noob Originally by: Rialtor Is there any DoT dmg in this game? I can't think of any off the top of my head, and if not, you think they should introduce it? For those that don't know what DoT is, it's dmg over time. DoT is a carebear/WOW word, in eve its called DPS. Eve; DPS: damage pumped out whilst everything's running DoT: damage taking into account reloading times etc A new tool in the fight for balance?
Rafein	Posted - 2007.08.09 16:16:00 - [38] Honestly, the only think I would like to see get a DoT is Bombs, so they would have a bit of staying power, to offset their high cost. Course, that would be more difficult to balance, as it would be an AoE DoT, but honestly, I don;t see bombs, in their current incarnation, really being worth the cost of using them.
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.08.09 17:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Rafein Honestly, the only think I would like to see get a DoT is Bombs, so they would have a bit of staying power, to offset their high cost. Course, that would be more difficult to balance, as it would be an AoE DoT, but honestly, I don;t see bombs, in their current incarnation, really being worth the cost of using them. That was the kind of potential opportunities that arise in the design space when you bring DoT to the party. You can't have a High dmg instant dealing weapon for X amount, because that would create imbalance. Can't make a weapon do 10,000 dmg instantly, but you could make a weapon hit for 10,000 over time.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.09 17:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Rialtor You guys focus way too much on WoW, YEah, if we wanted to compare DoT to wow, why not compare other aspects aswell. Drones=pets. NOS/Neuts=Life drain/mana drain. Plates/hardeners=armor/resistance buffs. Remote reps=healers. Jammers=stun. And. So. Forth. So saying "damage over time is such wow thing! waliwaawaa!", is rather silly So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Selia Rain	Posted - 2007.08.09 18:32:00 - [41] I want heavy missiles with the POISON attribute.
Borasao	Posted - 2007.08.09 19:06:00 - [42] People like DoTs for the same reason they like to play Hunters or camp/snipe in FPS... the ability to do damage to the enemy while being out of range to receive damage back and/or to solopwn without being in a lot of danger themselves. See also: DomiNOS, Curse, Pilgrim, Vagabond, Crow, etc.
Erim Solfara Amarr House of Solfara	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Rialtor You guys focus way too much on WoW, YEah, if we wanted to compare DoT to wow, why not compare other aspects aswell. Drones=pets. NOS/Neuts=Life drain/mana drain. Plates/hardeners=armor/resistance buffs. Remote reps=healers. Jammers=stun. And. So. Forth. So saying "damage over time is such wow thing! waliwaawaa!", is rather silly Desync=fear? A new tool in the fight for balance?
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.10 10:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Erim Solfara Originally by: Sheriff Jones Originally by: Rialtor You guys focus way too much on WoW, YEah, if we wanted to compare DoT to wow, why not compare other aspects aswell. Drones=pets. NOS/Neuts=Life drain/mana drain. Plates/hardeners=armor/resistance buffs. Remote reps=healers. Jammers=stun. And. So. Forth. So saying "damage over time is such wow thing! waliwaawaa!", is rather silly Desync=fear? Actually was gonna say "Flying an amarr ship and encountering anyone = insta self fear" So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Fager Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Actually was gonna say "Flying an amarr ship and encountering anyone = insta self fear" Playing caldari = SelfSlow, Frozen? "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Cudeiro Amarr Princeps Corp YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.10 14:39:00 - [46] anyone remember the plasma and chemical ammo of E&B? OMG i miss that game.. It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2007.08.10 20:18:00 - [47] Missles are DoTs cause they don't instantly hit you
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.10 22:22:00 - [48] The only things even remotely resembling DoT that I can think of were mines, and they were removed years ago because of the complications they caused. ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking
SasRipper DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2007.08.10 23:49:00 - [49] Originally by: LeviUK if we're talking WoW comparisons, drones are probably more akin to wow pets although pets And just like wow pets most suck you only ever see the same types & they dont do what there told ! snip Sas has spoken this tread shall be locked.
Valixithor Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.11 10:16:00 - [50] DOT does not originate from WoW as someone has already stated. You guys really need to get off the WoW bandwagon. I personally can't stand the game, but I have a reasonably broader mind than some of what's been written. DPS usually equates to how much damage you can do while you have your target locked and are constantly using basic attacks. DOT usually equates to a form of damage that once applied to your target will continue to deal damage until either the 'damage dealer' runs out of time, or gets destroyed/fixed. Again, drones are the closest equivalent to DOT EVE has. The possible suggestions for further DOT are good ones, albeit without a broader spectrum, I think the work involved in implementing such ideas would reap too little reward. The only other things I can think of for DOT are, Attacking a certain 'vulnerable' spot on ship (Should be harder to target and hard to get a hit) = Maybe cause an internal explosion that keeps damaging for a few seconds until either A - The 'fire/explosion' put's itself out or B - The pilot initiates some sort of action (i.e turn off all weapons), which stops the 'fire/explosion' Nanobots - Already been mentioned - Probably countered with EMP Radioactive weapons - Obviously cause a little radioactive damage over time - can't be bothered to think of a way to counter. Ok I'm bored of thinking now. Just don't mention WOW. Originally by: Yoravian If by 'you guys are pretty nasty' you mean 'you guys are sure good at explaining game mechanics to guys like me', then yes. Yes we are.
Goonie Alt	Posted - 2007.08.11 10:24:00 - [51] Before you ask for a new feature, ask yourself, does it have a reason to exist? The answer here is no.

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