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Stront3h
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Posted - 2004.02.03 16:59:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Stront3h on 03/02/2004 17:04:16
deleted, cba now its only a game after all.... |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.03 17:08:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
How would you feel if someone walked up to you (that has no idea of the full extent of your job) and just said 'sort it'. Personally I'd be inclined to give 'em the bird. Where as if someone were to adopt a more subtle approach, I'd be more inclined to speed up what I was doing or offer a reason for the delay.
The way you lot are going on any one would think you took your car to the garage 21 days ago with the promise of it being fixed the next day. Is this not a game?...
Your "input" in this thread is of no use at all and is deliberate trolling. More importantly you are totally wrong.
Really - please just aquaint yourself with the lengths of time involved in this, the various attempts at resolution, the broken existing promises and the rest of the facts before trying to preach.
If you can't be bothered to do that then don't try to take a moral highground - it doesn't exist and you make yourself look foolish. Its also as close to trolling as you can get.
Quote:
How would you feel if someone walked up to you (that has no idea of the full extent of your job)
Stop making gross assumptions either. 
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2004.02.03 17:08:00 -
[33]
Dont forget the fact that Frigate construction skill is unavaible and thus anyone with a tech 2 frigate BP can do... nothing with it because that silly skill is character creation only  
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Prophecy
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Posted - 2004.02.03 17:30:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Not really:
You miss the obvious point:
They release tech 2 blueprints BEFORE their Tech 1 counterparts were available.
The manner or speed of release is irrelevant - the order is another matter.
Or do you think we should be getting tech 4 before tech 3?
Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but I'm not missing the point.
How difficult do you think it is to put a BP on the market? or to add a component to the system that's equivalent to an existing one, just with slightly different numbers? What's happening isn't a mistake, they're doing it on purpose.
The tech-1 bps are one aspect of the tech-2 release, since the tech-1 components are necessary to the manufacturing process. And they are intended to be there, as much has been said.
Yet they, along with every other part of tech-2 is trickling in a snails pace. It'll be months yet before tech-2 is actually 'here.'
You're approaching this from the perspective that CCP made a mistake. Instead take the perspective of leverage and motivation. You have recently acquired a tech-2 bp, so it's pretty unlikely that you'll be going anywhere. You have no leverage. It's in CCPs interest to drag this out as long as possible; the longer they can dangle the carrot of tech-2, the longer they have before they have to deliver something that's actually new. The missing tech-1 bps are easy enough to withhold to slow things down without any real consequence to CCPs bottom line.
Watch how the next weeks and months unfold, and how quickly your BPs actually appear on the market. (compared to the few minutes effort it will actually take) Adopt a bit of healthy cynicism, and everything will probably make a good deal more sense.
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JackDonkey
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Posted - 2004.02.03 17:49:00 -
[35]
seems like an odd coincidence that most of the tech 2 blueprints are for stuff where the tech 1 blueprint is not available. Which leads me to believe that there is a reason for it.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.03 17:51:00 -
[36]
I know your point but unfortunately it doesnt match with what we have been told directly.
SImple put we have been told they WILL add these missing BPs - and they haven't. We have asked for LISTS, which were provided, so that COULD add the missing BPs to the market.
Note, not to the agents system but to the market.
We've been asked to hassle people until its done, but then they didn't do it.
Your points are fine and well and good except simple for the fact that they ahve stated they were not doing that and would add the BPs directly.
EVEN, were that not so we know that the entire affair was mismanaged inorder. They tested the agent distribution system with a T1 BP - then released T2s. They had the opportunity (and the lists) at tht time to release the T1s at appropriate times but did not.
Not matter which way you look at it, and with the best will in the world, its been hashed and it is a farce. Its also a farce that needs resolution and some honest unambiguous answers to resolve.
At the end of the day it isnt asking for mutch.. especially not after having been promised it over and over and over.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.02.03 18:33:00 -
[37]
Quote:
I know your point but unfortunately it doesnt match with what we have been told directly.
But that's making the assumption that they were telling you the truth. If they're as deceitful as Prophecy is suggesting, then that's a silly assumption to make.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Tigersbane
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Posted - 2004.02.03 18:35:00 -
[38]
Anyone else spot the remarkable lack of input from those that matter?
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.03 18:43:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Quote:
I know your point but unfortunately it doesnt match with what we have been told directly.
But that's making the assumption that they were telling you the truth. If they're as deceitful as Prophecy is suggesting, then that's a silly assumption to make.
As much as it galls me to say it - there is that. 
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.03 18:52:00 -
[40]
"But that's making the assumption that they were telling you the truth. If they're as deceitful as Prophecy is suggesting, then that's a silly assumption to make."
... On the other hand, don't presume malice for what ineptude can explain. Occam's Razor and all that. :s
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.03 18:56:00 -
[41]
Quote:
"But that's making the assumption that they were telling you the truth. If they're as deceitful as Prophecy is suggesting, then that's a silly assumption to make."
... On the other hand, don't presume malice for what ineptude can explain. Occam's Razor and all that. :s
What a choice to have: Lies or Incompetence
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.02.03 19:00:00 -
[42]
Is it possible there is something we aren't seeing? Is it possible they can't just tell us? I know that would be an easy copout but is it possible that's it?
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.03 19:04:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Is it possible there is something we aren't seeing? Is it possible they can't just tell us? I know that would be an easy copout but is it possible that's it?
Probably...Despite my sarcastic comment, I do believe there may be a piece of the puzzle missing.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.03 19:16:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 03/02/2004 19:18:14
i rather thinkits more to do with a side-effect of the agent BP system.
If they have indeed done a u-turn and put them into the agent system it is feasible they will never come to light during the course of the entire game.
"One" would hope they catered for that possibility but given their history...
Given the far higher probability of T1 BPs being rejected also - sorry but its still a farce and a mess.
No way around it.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2004.02.03 19:27:00 -
[45]
It was said that T1 should be accessable to everyone, it is a "Base" of items.
For it to be available to everyone, the BP's for it should be widely available on the market, as per what we've been pursuing for months.
The choice that Jash gives us is the only choice we are now left with for it has gone on FAR too long.
They are either lieing, or are incompetent.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.03 19:42:00 -
[46]
Quote:
It was said that T1 should be accessable to everyone, it is a "Base" of items.
For it to be available to everyone, the BP's for it should be widely available on the market, as per what we've been pursuing for months.
The choice that Jash gives us is the only choice we are now left with for it has gone on FAR too long.
They are either lieing, or are incompetent.
Oh suuuuure. Put it squarely on me 
I just distilled what was already being said.
As for the bps being rejected, I can't find which developer said it. But apparently if a bp is rejected enough, eventually the bp goes onto the market automatically.
So theoretically and allegedly, if the TL1 bps are part of the agent system and people keep declining them to hold out for a TL2 bp...
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kronarty
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Posted - 2004.02.03 19:59:00 -
[47]
I think the explanation is quite simple, and we are not going to like it:
This game is being developed VERY slowly, while the players are progressing much faster than the devs want.
One way to stop players is this thing they are doing, VERY SLOW tech2 rollout, having basic tech1 items unavailable, lowering mission rewards, nerfing npc hunting, making high ore mining an impossible task in some systems...
I don't think there is anything technical involved in all this, it is just their choice, it is their choice to lie to customers deliberately if it gives them enough time to get things done.
Tech2 is the proverbial carrot while they get their act together and develop POS's for Shiva, and anyone who thinks Shiva is going to make it on time...
I, for one, do not.
Also, what good is it to have an interceptor if NO ONE can fly it because the skill is not yet available?
Stops stops and more stops
2 level 5 skills required to fly an interceptor (the first tech2 ship).
Don't forget that is a frigate, with bells and whistles but a simple frigate after all. What's going to happen to cruisers and battleships??
Even more!
WTH is Tech3 going to have as skill requirements?
More stops!
We players are overtaking the devs, they can only stop us in this way.
You have only to analyze their statements and when they made them:
A few weeks after release, they lied about reverse engineering. It was not IN and is not IN yet, even if they said it was! How many people wasted time training science skills trying to get reverse engineering to work?
Then people started asking about stations (which existed back in beta) and they said: Well, it would take all of eve's players a week mining to make one. They lied! They don't even know now how much a station will cost!
"pirates drop blueprints". No comments...
Stations and tech2 were, for weeks, "just a couple of weeks away"
There is lies, damn lies, statistics and CCP dev chats/interviews!
I would love them admitting it instead of lying and lying and lying yet again.
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KIAHicks
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Posted - 2004.02.03 20:36:00 -
[48]
I'm sure I read somewhere that tech 1 items will come out via agent missions now. If nobody accepts those missing tech 1 bp's then eventually ccp will add them to the general market.
I don't think all tech 1 bp's have to be available when tech 2 bp's come out. Although I do agree that the tech 1 items required to build a tech 2 item should have the tech 1 bp available before the tech2 bp is available. The other way around just wouldn't make sense :P
But I don't think every tech 1 bp must be out before the very first tech 2 bp is out.
BTW those people who are not accepting the tech 1 bp agent offers (if anyone is in fact getting them) could be missing out on a bit of money if these items are not available on the market and required in tech 2 production.
Then again, you'd also be missing out on money if you accept it and miss out on a tech 2 bp :P
Keenon: "After sitting in the system for FIVE hours without even a (go away)"...
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.03 20:39:00 -
[49]
Quote:
I'm sure I read somewhere that tech 1 items will come out via agent missions now. If nobody accepts those missing tech 1 bp's then eventually ccp will add them to the general market.
WHich could take monts (even years) in theory.
Your second point hits the nail on the head - no T2 bp should be released withouts its T1 counterpart already being available "somewhere".
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Dracule
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Posted - 2004.02.03 20:50:00 -
[50]
Quote:
So typical of todays society, you want everything and wanted it yesterday!!
Nice whine Morkt, lots of constructive help for the Devs there. May be you should take over?
Rome wasn't built in a day ffs!!
LMFAO, he just wants TECH 1 blueprints ASAP so that he can use his TECH 2 blueprints, its not whining so get real.
Peaple have been giving constructive posts to the devs but they failed to either read them or failed to understand them if the actually read them.
Perhaps you need to read his post again b4 you start mouthing off and then you relise we have tech 2 in the game but not all tech 1 .
so bugger off fool.
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Murple
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Posted - 2004.02.03 21:14:00 -
[51]
I've been saying this stuff all along. CCP has a long history in Eve of being either A) dishonest or B) incompetent/lazy
I used to think it was B but I'm leaning more toward A now.
It's a real shame, a relationship built on dishonesty is a relationship doomed to fail.
Gotta love my city-sized roid vacuum cleaner! |
Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.03 21:59:00 -
[52]
Lying or ineptitude I suppose goes hand in hand with CCPs history thus far. I am reminded of two things which fit the same choice.
Insta-jump bookmarks "Were never intended to be used that way"
Tech II tools with mega & Zyd "The fact that they contain mega and zyd is a bug"
"We're Giving you 10 free days during Christmas time to check out the new Tech II release". Sure Richard.
I hate to say this but the gal who mentioned this being an intentional delay I think has a point.
CCP has gotten their average numbers back up to a certain degree and it was soley because of the phantom "tech II". I strnagly believe there a number of players waiting to evaluate the game post-tech II.
Once the BPs are in full circulation expect the server numbers to start falling again. CCP I think sees this and is attempting to formulate plans that can ebb that flow.
If there is always a carrot to chase then people will tend to stay until they get there. They leverage that with, like the other gal said, one's invested time betting that people stay a little longer just to see what's on the next rise ad infinitum...
The only reason even some Tech II BPs were released was to sate the mob. They were ALL for items that aren't game dominating items. Mainly frigate level equipment that wouldn't turn the tide of PvP encounters to any marked degree.
Example: Apparently the tech II equivalent of a med. slot cap recharger is 15% as opposed to the 14% of the best named one of Tech I.
Not that one shouldn't demand service from their service provider, something tells me that unless it involves a mass exodus from the game requests fall on deaf ears.
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Masimo
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Posted - 2004.02.03 22:32:00 -
[53]
Server pop on the raise why should CCP give a fack about anything else? Money is number 1. They cant even be arsed to reply on this thread; just goes to show
Keep up the great work
p.s. Stop adding new ****, cant u even get old bugs/missing stuff sorted ?
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2004.02.03 23:11:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Quote:
It was said that T1 should be accessable to everyone, it is a "Base" of items.
For it to be available to everyone, the BP's for it should be widely available on the market, as per what we've been pursuing for months.
The choice that Jash gives us is the only choice we are now left with for it has gone on FAR too long.
They are either lieing, or are incompetent.
Oh suuuuure. Put it squarely on me
I just distilled what was already being said.
As for the bps being rejected, I can't find which developer said it. But apparently if a bp is rejected enough, eventually the bp goes onto the market automatically.
So theoretically and allegedly, if the TL1 bps are part of the agent system and people keep declining them to hold out for a TL2 bp...
But them shoulders of yours look so broad, just right for carrying the blame 
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Angry Sheep
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Posted - 2004.02.03 23:20:00 -
[55]
I dont think CCP actualy have a list of the BP's and if they are in game or not, they can not even keep the descriptions and layout's consistant.
Even in a dev chat TomB says "oh I did not know that was the problem" - do you guys do QA?
Apart from that great game, you just need more staff = more content
It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
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Popov
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Posted - 2004.02.03 23:21:00 -
[56]
Must agree with Morkt too, the whole tech 2 introduction has so far been a farce of epic proportions.
Sort it out please, this is really making CCP look bad (like they needed help)
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Ada Isdead
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Posted - 2004.02.03 23:40:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Ada Isdead on 03/02/2004 23:42:02
two things:
Firstly iirc the mini-CSM questions where asked before the latest dev chat and CSM, so it's way out of date.
Secondly:
Will people with Tech II BP's who need Tech I modules please, Please, PLEASE post what modules they need so we can check our junk piles for them.
Collectivly we can probably get items together, or at least leave them in escrow for people that want to start on tech II.
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Alli
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Posted - 2004.02.04 00:26:00 -
[58]
I couln't agree more with Morkt Dark.
ccp get your acct to gether!!
Alli |
Enderweeks
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Posted - 2004.02.04 00:42:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Dont forget the fact that Frigate construction skill is unavaible and thus anyone with a tech 2 frigate BP can do... nothing with it because that silly skill is character creation only
I have the skill - so if anyone wants assitance contact me 
I don't think anyone with a T2 BP is going to let anyone know which T1 BP they need because they don't want to be held to ransom.
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Baun
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Posted - 2004.02.04 02:39:00 -
[60]
how exactly did you come by the frigate construction skill?
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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